Aliens, Arecibo, and crop circles

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Crop circles are a response to our tranmissions to outer space:

http://amo.net/Contact/


~~ Paul

[Crossbow]

To: Paul

Thanks for the tip about crop circles.

My cats have been leaving messages to these aliens for years in their litter boxes, but with no response.

The first I do when I get home will be to tell them that are using the wrong approach and what they really need is an interstellar ham radio.

Thanks again!

;)

[Bjorn]

Has anyone else read the rumour that the movie company is paying people to make crop circles now just before the movie is out? :)

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

I'd be surprised if the studio isn't paying for circles.

I've also suggested many times that the farmers are getting kickbacks from local hotels, pub owners, merchants, and taxi drivers. Everybody's happy.

~~ Paul

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by Bjorn
Has anyone else read the rumour that the movie company is paying people to make crop circles now just before the movie is out? :)
I was under the impression that it wasn't a rumor at all but an announced part of their publicity campaign.

Incidently, since mere mortal humans can't recreate crop circles, I find it utterly amazing that aliens would oblige the movie company by creating the circles for them.

Upchurch

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Humans can make busted crop circles:

http://www.baz.ch/englishcorner/articles.cfm?ObjectID=138713A7-E7AC-4606-9396399F6D3F272F

~~ Paul

[Brak]

Originally posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Crop circles are a response to our tranmissions to outer space:

http://amo.net/Contact/



This of course is completely logical. These pesky little greys (or blues or greens or whatever) pop on over from Alpha Centauri and talk to us with wheat.

So I guess on Pioneer 10, 11 and Voyager 1 and 2 that, instead of a record or information about Earth, we should have stuck on a couple of loaves of Wonder Bread.

Sure. I believe it.

[anduin]

From the site:

What humans currently can't demostrate the ability to do are the following:
#1: Modify the chemical/molecular structure of the crops like those consistent with what we'll call "authentic crop formation phenomena".

Hogwash, such changes have never been witnessed.

#2: Leave no human evidence in the crop; IE: not breaking it and leaving footsteps, paths, etc.

Complete rubbish, it is really easy to get into the fields without leaving marks if one is careful.

#3: Create massive and complex crop circles/formations in seconds or minutes as has been evidenced by eyewitness accounts and video recordings.

Seconds? Where has there been a crop circle formed in seconds? I would love to see this proven.

[Bjorn]

Originally posted by anduin
From the site:
#3: Create massive and complex crop circles/formations in seconds or minutes as has been evidenced by eyewitness accounts and video recordings.

Seconds? Where has there been a crop circle formed in seconds? I would love to see this proven. Couldn't be bothered to check myself - does the site show the videos? No? :(

One wonders why ... ;)

[RichardR]

Originally posted by anduin
Seconds? Where has there been a crop circle formed in seconds? I would love to see this proven.
Haven't you heard of the film of Oliver's Castle? (http://cropcircleconnector.com/Sorensen/articles/sorensen.html) It was filmed happening.

Of course, after a couple of years, someone discovered the cameraman's day job - he is co-owner of a video special effects studio.

[anduin]

Originally posted by Bjorn
Couldn't be bothered to check myself - does the site show the videos? No? :(

One wonders why ... ;)

I think they are talking about the hoaxed video:

http://www.thenoiseroom.com/oliver.htm

The fact that this so-called "expert" doesn't even know that this is a proven hoax is quite indicative of the gullibility of these people.

http://www.historychannel.com/ontv/index.html

History's Mysteries: Crop Circle Controversy

Did anyone see this on the History Channel? I caught most of it late last night and was blown away by the flavor of the show. For those of you that missed it, they talked about the mystery of the circles and then about the hoax explanation and finished with the idea that a % of these crop circles just can't be explained. For Example:

"In the 1980s, a series of strange formations started showing up in the farms of southern England. "Crop circles"--uniformly flattened patterns in fields---attracted the attention of the Queen, Prince Charles, Margaret Thatcher, and even Led Zeppelin! Paranormalists speculated that they were evidence of UFO landings or occult activity. Then, in 1991, two men came forward to say it was all a hoax, that they had invented crop circles back in the `70s. One even demonstrated his technique for TV cameras.

But, as the CROP CIRCLE CONTROVERSY shows, this revelation did not end the speculation. For one, there are documented incidents of the circles showing up in fields all over the world--some simultaneously in different countries. For another, the circles have appeared throughout history: in the Middle Ages they were called "witches' circles" or "pixie circles" and a 1678 circle is pictured in a woodcut known as the "Mowing Devil."

Today, it is widely accepted that many formations are manmade.
But others resist attempts to explain them by conventional means. Crop circles remain, in large part, a mystery. "

The show (which is used to promote the movie) says that some circles made years ago are unexplained by the fact that the circle area still does not grow. In the footage the show uses, it seemed to me that the crop in question was dying all together. It looked like this was not a wheat field that still produces a harvest. Of coarse the tattoo of the damaged area would continue to be evident if no effort to grow wheat has been made since the discovery. Anyone else notice this?

Also, they state a claim that it is “unlikely” people would travel to this remote area of the earth to execute a prank. Truth is that this planet is fill with people that have way too much time on their hands. I mean, people spend tons of time to learn how to play the accordion, create and speak in Klingon, and bow to Mecca seven times a day.
:confused: Explain that!

[compjan]

Originally posted by RichardR

Haven't you heard of the film of Oliver's Castle? (http://cropcircleconnector.com/Sorensen/articles/sorensen.html) It was filmed happening.


Thanks Richard! Sorensen's a pretty good writer. I loved his description of the speculative clandestine meeting at the pub between the hoax photographer and the shadowy crop circle artist!

CompJan

[HotSoup]

Also, they state a claim that it is “unlikely” people would travel to this remote area of the earth to execute a prank.
The irony of that is, if they came from outerspace ,they came an even further distance.

A Minneapolis Start-Tribune article about crop circles. (http://startribune.com/stories/462/3154170.html)

The main part of the story is about a man who made a crop circle on his nephew's farm. Eight years later, he finally told his nephew that it was he who made the circles, and not an alien. The nephew hasn't spoken to him since he confessed.

There is also some nonsense in the article from people who believe the circles are created by aliens. I found this quote amusing:

[Gary Beckman, publisher of the Edge, a Twin Cities metaphysical newspaper] points out a six-pointed design discovered last month near Stonehenge that experts believe resembles flying ribbons, fueling his notion that "something is out there."
I've never seen or heard of a "flying ribbon", and I don't know what one looks like, but I'm glad there are "experts" who can set me straight.

They do counter this with a quote from Pat Linse, cofounder of the Skeptics Society, in Altadena, Calif:

"It's one of the silliest paranormal beliefs I can think of."

-------
Just John

[sorgoth]

Dammit, I hate it when they make sense. But...I saw a show once that had a couple of guys making this HUGE crop circle thing in an hour. It was amazing how fast they could do it, with just a big wooden board. And it was pretty precise, too.

[crocodile deathroll]

Now what the **** are those aliens thinking out there.

"lets foget about the colin endoscope and divices to inspect the genitals of Earthlings. Lets instead bring the Wead eater, the lawn mower, a few bottles of weed killer and make pretty pictures in the crop fields of England. We think those gullible Earthlings will be most amazed about would we can do with maize. We may even employ some Earthling practical jockers like Doug and Dave"

croc

Originally posted by anduin
From the site:

What humans currently can't demostrate the ability to do are the following:
#1: Modify the chemical/molecular structure of the crops like those consistent with what we'll call "authentic crop formation phenomena".

Hogwash, such changes have never been witnessed.

#2: Leave no human evidence in the crop; IE: not breaking it and leaving footsteps, paths, etc.

Complete rubbish, it is really easy to get into the fields without leaving marks if one is careful.

#3: Create massive and complex crop circles/formations in seconds or minutes as has been evidenced by eyewitness accounts and video recordings.

Seconds? Where has there been a crop circle formed in seconds? I would love to see this proven.

We have been through this and the thread died. Now there is some info--new to me--which I would like to offer here:

www.geocities.com/cprandrews/Crop_Circles_Research.html
www.cropcircleinfo.com/
cprandrews@worldnet.att.net

Originally posted by RichardR

Haven't you heard of the film of Oliver's Castle? (http://cropcircleconnector.com/Sorensen/articles/sorensen.html) It was filmed happening.

Of course, after a couple of years, someone discovered the cameraman's day job - he is co-owner of a video special effects studio.

How about this one:

www.memorologyllc.com/CropCircleInfo/Blackbird.htm

Let's just say that crop circles have NOT ALL been debunked as many are erroneously saying here (JREF in general)! Being skeptical is fine, to say that the answer to the phenomenon has been obvious for some time is plain wrong. People reading such misinformation are as gullible and mislead as those who believe that ALL circles are mysteries.

[Bjorn]

Originally posted by Pscott


How about this one:

www.memorologyllc.com/CropCircleInfo/Blackbird.htm

Let's just say that crop circles have NOT ALL been debunked as many are erroneously saying here (JREF in general)! Being skeptical is fine, to say that the answer to the phenomenon has been obvious for some time is plain wrong. People reading such misinformation are as gullible and mislead as those who believe that ALL circles are mysteries. Not to be too negative here, but when so many crop circles have been proven to be made by humans ...

Of course, if enough people make them, debunking will be a matter of enough time to follow up on them all or admit that it is impossible to do so. In which case people will say "oh, they're not ALL debunked ...".

Your link ends like this: The full story will be published here. – COMING SOON.

Not much basis for debunking? Any other proof about this one?

[RichardR]

Originally posted by Pscott


We have been through this and the thread died. Now there is some info--new to me--which I would like to offer here:

www.geocities.com/cprandrews/Crop_Circles_Research.html
www.cropcircleinfo.com/
cprandrews@worldnet.att.net
The first two links were for the same site. Perhaps I missed it in my quick peruse, but I didn't see much discussion of how he thought the circles were formed.

The third link was an email address.

[RichardR]

Originally posted by Pscott


How about this one:

www.memorologyllc.com/CropCircleInfo/Blackbird.htm

Let's just say that crop circles have NOT ALL been debunked as many are erroneously saying here (JREF in general)! Being skeptical is fine, to say that the answer to the phenomenon has been obvious for some time is plain wrong. People reading such misinformation are as gullible and mislead as those who believe that ALL circles are mysteries.
OK, well I look forward to examining the evidence for this when there is more available. Please post it here when you have it: I'd like to see it. For now, it seemed inconclusive to me.

[crocodile deathroll]

I just heard a promo on the National Geographic Channel (http://www.nationalgeographic.com.au/front/#) if you live in Australia is will appear 20.00 EST

[crocodile deathroll]

Well I have just watched the article of crop circles on National Geographic and it confirmed what I suspected. Just the simple act of trampling down with shoes can produce that crop circle effect . It is not even a particularly brilliant magician's trick.

It this then the work of Aliens?? (http://www.themaizemaze.com/) :D They said "last year there was a cowboy, in the past we have had a dragon, pirate ship and a castle." (Perhaps the mother ship will be next)

[!Xx+-Rational-+xX!]

http://www.thatwasrandom.com/random/images/90.jpg

[Ratman_tf]

Originally posted by Pscott

Let's just say that crop circles have NOT ALL been debunked as many are erroneously saying here (JREF in general)! Being skeptical is fine, to say that the answer to the phenomenon has been obvious for some time is plain wrong. People reading such misinformation are as gullible and mislead as those who believe that ALL circles are mysteries.

I'd be willing to bet that all crop circles are man made. There's no way to be absolutley sure, but until some real evidence comes along, they're all well within the power of humans to make, and nothing about them is mysterious or unexplainable.

[Jeff Corey]

Originally posted by Pscott

People reading such misinformation are as gullible and mislead as those who believe that ALL circles are mysteries.
Well, I'm surely "mislead" then.

[RonSceptic]

Originally posted by Pscott
Let's just say that crop circles have NOT ALL been debunked as many are erroneously saying here (JREF in general)! Being skeptical is fine, to say that the answer to the phenomenon has been obvious for some time is plain wrong. People reading such misinformation are as gullible and mislead as those who believe that ALL circles are mysteries.

We don't have to debunk every single one. Given that many of these things, including the very first, are acknowledged hoaxes, the burden of proof is on those that beleive they are of extra terrestial origin to come up with some evidence.

The entire concept is ludicrous. Aliens travel untold light years, find a planet with (some) intelligent life and choose to do nothin but make a few patterns in crops? And they can achieve all of this entirely unobserved? And they make no other attempt at contact??:rolleyes:

You might as well blame the aliens for subway graffitti. We can't prove that is 'ALL' made by humans either. I mean really, what's the difference?

[Jeff Corey]

The original link Paul A. posted has the flavor of a high school essay patched together with other internet sources. A typical error: "it's" for "its".

[Ratman_tf]

Originally posted by RonSceptic

You might as well blame the aliens for subway graffitti. We can't prove that is 'ALL' made by humans either. I mean really, what's the difference?

Excellent analogy. Thank you.

[patnray]

Paul: Thanks for the post with the pictures. When I first heard about this I laughed, then I thought "What a cruel hoax to play on the woo woos." I knew there would be some who would take it seriously, without a clue to the absurdity and completely unaware that someone is making fun of them. But I'm still laughing.

We need to post some signs: Please do not feed the woo woos...

[Rolfe]

Never mind the woo-woos, I think the funniest part of it all is the gaggle of so-called "serious" researchers who were so DESPERATE to prove it wasn't little green men that they spent years trying to prove it was all due to vertical whirlwinds or natural magnetic fields or something.

The nature of the patterns made it obvious that this sort of explanation was several orders of magnitude less likely than the little green men. But when a local Sussex TV station got a couple of teams of army cadets to demonstrate how they were made (with aerial views of the making), I laughed like a drain.

A few days ago I had to wait in a car repair shop while they sorted out my bill, and the top magazine on the pile was "UFO Magazine" (crikey, didn't know they had a magazine!). Super pictures of a magnificant swirly pattern of over 400 circles which appeared in August 2001 just after the foot and mouth restrictions were lifted. I suppose the perps spent the entire foot-and-mouth hiatus planning the thing. It was absolutely awesome, and I take my hat off to whoever did it.

And the rest of the mag was mostly pics of fallen stock which had been got at by crows, claiming it was aliens dissecting the bodies. Sheesh!

Rolfe.

[Johnny Pneumatic]

What humans currently can't demostrate the ability to do are the following:
#1: Modify the chemical/molecular structure of the crops



Give me a flamethrower and I'll chemically change the crops!:D

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Wow, talk about resurrecting an ancient thread!

Before you haul out the flamethrower, Dogma, get someone to explain how they tested the crops for alteration.

~~ Paul

[Archer17]

Originally posted by RonSceptic


We don't have to debunk every single one. Given that many of these things, including the very first, are acknowledged hoaxes, the burden of proof is on those that beleive they are of extra terrestial origin to come up with some evidence.

The entire concept is ludicrous. Aliens travel untold light years, find a planet with (some) intelligent life and choose to do nothin but make a few patterns in crops? And they can achieve all of this entirely unobserved? And they make no other attempt at contact??:rolleyes:

You might as well blame the aliens for subway graffitti. We can't prove that is 'ALL' made by humans either. I mean really, what's the difference? This sums up why the entire crop circle phenomenon is not credible. I made similar points on another board during a lengthy debate on this subject regarding alien causation. I also find the arguments that peddle some sort of unknown "plasma-vortex," "balls of light," etc as an alternate source of these things to be equally lame. One would not only have to provide proof of some as yet undiscovered atmospheric manifestation but also explain the intelligent designs produced. BTW, the graffiti analogy was excellent RonSceptic .. wish I would have thought of that.

Aside, to RichardR .. where have I seen you before? deja vue, eh? ;)

[Ossai]

I need some help about another crop circle or circles.

I work with someone that claims there were crop circles near Houston TX (or somewhere in Texas). He also said that they were made in a sugar cane field and that sugar cane can't be bent without breaking. Anyone have any info on this or speculation on how it could have been done?

I've looked online and haven't found any reference to crop circles in sugar cane fields, only wheat and maize.

Ossai

[CFLarsen]

Mogens Winther (yes, of Swift-fame, and Scourge of Danish Astrologers) and his students pulled a marvellous trick a couple of years ago:

"Crop Circles ... or just Crap Circles ?" (http://www.amtsgym-sdbg.dk/as/crop/ufofake.HTM)

[Ossai]

Thanks, but

I've already looked at that site and quiet a few others. The real sticking point is he claims the crop circles were in sugar cane fields and that sugar cane does not bend but breaks.

All the crop circle site, both believer and skeptic, that I've found don't mention sugar cane fields. Or they are mentioned but not pictured.

I'm trying to find anything online concerning the specific ones he mentioned (only info is around Houston Texas or in Texas - sugar cane field)

Can young sugar cane be bent without breaking?

[Iamme]

Are they going to change the name of Sugarland,Texas to something else? Do you know there really IS such a place, southwest of Houston? They stopped production of sugar there, not too long ago. I used to live 'down the road' from there, about 20 years ago. Now I live like 1200 miles away (or whatever).

I wish that some credible investigator like Erich Von Danniken would look into this crop circle business.

[Ossai]

Iamme
Are they going to change the name of Sugarland,Texas to something else? Do you know there really IS such a place, southwest of Houston? No. I've ask for pictures or some other evidence that there were crop circles in sugar cane fields. I haven't received any yet, but that doesn't keep the co-worker from continuing to make the claim.

Ossai

[Iamme]

Ossai---If you are really serious about crop circles, you might try to e-mail Art Bell (I'm not joking) and ask him who that expert lady he had on the show a few years ago. She went on...and on...and on...and on...about such things as how the stalks of the crops show damage inconsistant of people walking them down, but rather consistant with internal damage similar to that from microwave radiation.

There must be more 'experts' on crop circles out there who can tell you anything you want to know abourt them, one would think. You know: How many, what countries, what crops, the various patterns, witnesses, etc.

[Iamme]

OPriginal crop circles might be real. Go to : www.physicsforums.com

This forum is very similar in layout and style to JREF...and the skeptics over there. I just became a member. They have a thread over there on John Edward, crop circles and..,.well, physics, math...all KINDS of good stuff.

[Ersby]

lamme

Thanks for the link, but I can't find the John Edward thread.


Anyway, since you know a lot about the "woo woo" side (for want of a better term, but frankly, I don't think there is) of crop circles, is there an explanation as to why crop circles vanished (if you can find an example I'd be genuinely interested) during the UK-wide ban on cross country rambling in the wake of the mad-cow disease break-out.

As far as I know, NO crop circles were done in this period. Wouldn't this strongly indicate human-UK-law-abiding-subjects at work?

[Rolfe]

Originally posted by Ersby
the UK-wide ban on cross country rambling in the wake of the mad-cow disease break-out.It wasn't "mad cow disease" (bovine spongiform encephalopathy), it was foot and mouth disease.

I saw a wonderful picture of an incredibly complex circle pattern which looked as if it must have taken pretty much all night to do, which appeared very soon after the countryside footpaths were reopened. My guess is the perpetrators had sat at home all through the access restrictions, planning very carefully.

Rolfe.

[Iamme]

Ersby---I have made but one post so far in that new forum. I did not even get back yet to the forum that has the crop circle discussion, so I can't point you the way. But it's there. And some poster brought up recorded crop circles from medieval times and perhaps earlier. They have a good dialogue going there, regarding crop circles. If I find out more, I will let you know, or you can let ME know. Yes, admittedly, many crop circles have been man-made. I am most suspicious of those done in modern day England. It does not surprise me that there has been a subsidance during the time you mentioned. But crop circles have been going on, supposedly, for centuries, in many countries and continents. Some are of simpler design...and it is of these that one might consider to be the real ones. (Note: CONSIDER is the operative word)