Decent Bible passages

[Suezoled]

Okay, most folks know the hypocrisy, the contradictions, the horrible things that the Bible decrees. How about a couple nice things? What makes the Bible so beloved to believers, if there aren't good things.
I'd like to find a list of these good things.

And then consider them.
and trash them if they don't jive.

[frisian]

You said there are not good "things", yet you want a list of good "things"?

[Suezoled]

Originally posted by frisian
You said there are not good "things", yet you want a list of good "things"?

oh don't even start. geesh.

[frisian]

Originally posted by Suezoled


oh don't even start. geesh.

:D

I am nearly certain you will entertain a delightful thread here.

[frisian]

Perhaps you should define "nice" within YOUR paradigm. Since you have investigated the Bible thoroughly, and find it to be hypocritical, contradictory, and containing horrible things...I doubt anyone could fit "nice" into YOUR perception.

Go ahead and make your case though, if it so pleases you.

[Keneke]

I pretty much like Jesus' straightforward life lessons that have nothing to do with worshipping him. Matthew has a few gems [paraphrased]:

1. Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

2. Whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.

3. Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; for if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others?

4. Judge not, that ye be not judged.

5. Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them.


There's also great stories, so much so that movies are made of them. ;) And Revelations is a nice spooky horror story. The problem with the Bible is that all this good stuff is created for a completely ephemeral cause.

[WanderingKnight]

I think when it comes to the bible as a whole, Mark Twai nreally said it best:

"It is full of interest. It has noble poetry in it; and some clever fables; and some blood-drenched history; and some good morals; and a wealth of obscenity; and upwards of a thousand lies."

[frisian]

Originally posted by Keneke
The problem with the Bible is that all this good stuff is created for a completely ephemeral cause.

Explain how it is ephemeral.

I am not following, but observing.

[Keneke]

Originally posted by frisian


Explain how it is ephemeral.

I am not following, but observing.

Sorry, I was thinking of the wrong word. I meant to say "illusory".

[Atlas]

From the New Testament here are 3 verses that, I find fairly unobjectionable. (Does that qualify as 'nice'?)



1 Corinthians 3:16
Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit lives in you?

Colossians 3:11
Here there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.

Luke 17:21
...the kingdom of God is within you.

[Keneke]

Originally posted by Atlas
From the New Testament here are 3 verses that, I find fairly unobjectionable. (Does that qualify as 'nice'?)



1 Corinthians 3:16
Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit lives in you?

Colossians 3:11
Here there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.

Luke 17:21
...the kingdom of God is within you.

They are asserting an unproveable claim about my body. My body is my own! I'm definitely pro-choice. ;)

[frisian]

Originally posted by Keneke


They are asserting an unproveable claim about my body. My body is my own! I'm definitely pro-choice. ;)

The verses weren't speaking to you, silly.

:p

[frisian]

Originally posted by Keneke


Sorry, I was thinking of the wrong word. I meant to say "illusory".

Let's say we both agreed that the cause was illusory. Where is the problem?

[Atlas]

Originally posted by Keneke
They are asserting an unproveable claim about my body. My body is my own! I'm definitely pro-choice. ;) Suezoled asked: to find a list of these good things.
And then consider them.
and trash them if they don't jive.
I sorta thought those were "good" and that they "jived."

I certainly am not making any claims on your body.;)

[Keneke]

Originally posted by frisian
Let's say we both agreed that the cause was illusory. Where is the problem?

You just answered your own question. If you felt a twinge of anger at Bush when you found out there were actually no WMD in Iraq, then you know what I am talking about.

[frisian]

Originally posted by frisian


Let's say we both agreed that the cause was illusory. Where is the problem?

Perhaps that which at one point and time could be referred to as mere illusion (via logical entitlement), could later at a distinctly different point and time be classified as "real".

Are we not in a constant state of categorizing and attributing merit, or lack there of, to experience?

Perception of matter, via the senses, seems to be a fluid process that alters in relation to time and space variants when defining and attributing reality.

[Suezoled]

Originally posted by Atlas
From the New Testament here are 3 verses that, I find fairly unobjectionable. (Does that qualify as 'nice'?)

(sniipped)
decent decent and decent. Keep going. I'm curious as to why the Bible is so beloved to believers.

[frisian]

Originally posted by Keneke


You just answered your own question. If you felt a twinge of anger at Bush when you found out there were actually no WMD in Iraq, then you know what I am talking about.

Material evidence is hardly analogous to that which is posited as being outside naturalistic observance.

[Brown]

Romans 13 (although it has some flaws) is an appeal to good citizenship. It includes an admonition that you should pay your taxes (but just try suggesting that to any church in the USA!).

The story of the Good Samaritan is one of the greatest moral stories of all time. You can read it in Luke chapter 10.

And yet, the story is often misunderstood. If you listen to the dim bulbs who read the evening news, for example, they will talk about a "Good Samaritan" as being someone who kindly helps someone else. And yet, the moral importance of helping others is only part of the story (and, it can be argued, not the main point of the story at all).

[Keneke]

Originally posted by frisian
Material evidence is hardly analogous to that which is posited as being outside naturalistic observance.

So you're stating there exists a thing that is unobservable, and therefore unfalsifiable?

[Atlas]

Originally posted by Suezoled
Keep going. I'm curious as to why the Bible is so beloved to believers. Oh shucks, was I supposed to be a believer? I thought we were collecting the few that weren't offensive.

[Suezoled]

Originally posted by Atlas
Oh shucks, was I supposed to be a believer? I thought we were collecting the few that weren't offensive.

heck no. I don't require belief, I'm just looking for good stuff, because it might give an idea of what is so nice about the Bible.

[Atlas]

Frisian and Keneke,
You're derailing - Pull it back.

[bignickel]

This one I keep in my wallet:

"Why do you see the speck in your brother's eye, but do not see the log in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, "Friend, let me take the speck in your eye," when you yourself do not see the log in your own eye?
You hypocrite, first take the log out of your eye, and then you will be able to see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."
- Luke 6:41

I once quoted this in an email to one of my oldest friends who had decided that she didn't want to hang out with me anymore once she found out (from someone else) that I was a skeptic.
She replied "No log in my eye." :rolleyes:

[El Greco]

I actually like most JC's (alleged) teachings when they don't include the "because God..." clause.

[frisian]

Originally posted by Atlas
Frisian and Keneke,
You're derailing - Pull it back.

1st Corinthians

4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
8Love never fails.

[Atlas]

Originally posted by frisian


1st Corinthians

4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
8Love never fails. I was just getting ready to post all of that passage. I didn't think you'd use it against me.

I love you, man.:D

[Keneke]

Frisian and Keneke,
You're derailing - Pull it back.

Actually, I was about to close the issue by pointing him to a few threads on materialism and falsifiability. Now I've got the debating equivalent of blue balls. :(

I'm just looking for good stuff, because it might give an idea of what is so nice about the Bible.

Let me look some more. There's lots of little life lessons couched in the book, just like any other religious text. Such works fulfill many desires: it suppresses the fear of the unknown, it hands the reins over to a parent figure (allowing socially acceptable moral regression), and even satisfies our curiosities by letting us discover deeper and deeper "truths" in the text.

However, we all know that the devil is in the details. It's just another drug, giving us a high, but in the end weakening us and making us hopelessly addicted. Losing religion is a hard, hard, experience, much worse than quitting cigarettes.

[Atlas]

Psalm 23 Reminds one that, through it all, one is never alone. I'm sure that can be a comforting thought.

...though I walk
through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil,
for you are with me;

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by Brown
The story of the Good Samaritan is one of the greatest moral stories of all time. You can read it in Luke chapter 10.

And yet, the story is often misunderstood. If you listen to the dim bulbs who read the evening news, for example, they will talk about a "Good Samaritan" as being someone who kindly helps someone else. And yet, the moral importance of helping others is only part of the story (and, it can be argued, not the main point of the story at all).

Boy, you picked one of my favorites...

Yep'... Most people miss the point about " Even a disgusting old Samaritan can be shown to have some good in them... "

i.e... " Not all Samaritans are like.. well ... you know.. " ;)

[Brown]

Jesus spoke about casting the first stone in John chapter 8. This is another highly moral lesson.

This tale, however, is regarded as being of questionable authenticity. If memory serves, the Revised Standard Edition removes the story from the main text, but includes it in a footnote.

Jesus's remarks about walking around with a "log in your own eye" (see bignickel's post above) suggest that Jesus occasionally used comedy to get his message across. The imagery Jesus used is absurdly extreme, and seems deliberately chosen to invoke a humorous response.

[RandFan]

"He that is greatest amongst you, let him be your servent. "

"It's easy to love those who love you. Love those who hate and despise you."

Of the people I admire the most from history two that really stand out are Martin Luther King Jr and Ghandi. Ghandi was not Christian but he knew the bible and understood Christian philosophy.

"An Eye for an Eye makes the whole world blind"
--Ghandi

Much of the non violent activism was founded on the idea that the willingness to not hate in the face of hatred is powerful.

Of course there are a number of religions that share this concept. It is not unique to Christianity.

[The idea]

Matthew 20

Laborers in the Vineyard

[paraphrase follows]

Heaven functions like this:
The owner of a vineyard went in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard.
Some laborers agreed to a denarius for a full day of work. They went and began working.
An hour before the end of the day, he went out and found people in the marketplace standing around. He asked, "Why are you idle?"
They said to him, "No one hired us."
He said, "Work in my vineyard and I will give you fair compensation."
At the end of the day, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, "Pay the laborers, beginning with the final group hired."
Each of those who were hired an hour before the end of the day received a denarius.
When those hired first came, they expected more, but each also received a denarius.
They grumbled at the owner, saying, "These last men have worked only one hour, and you have made them equal to us even though we worked hard all day."
The vineyard owner said, "Employees, did you not agree with me for a denarius? Take it and go. Does generosity make you angry when you don't personally stand to gain from it?"

[RandFan]

Originally posted by The idea
The vineyard owner said, "Employees, did you not agree with me for a denarius? Take it and go. Does generosity make you angry when you don't personally stand to gain from it?" Excellent,

Sorry but it reminds me of a story from All in the Family. Mike and Gloria were going to move to a new city. Archie didn't want them to and a fight ensued. Later Mike approached Archie and told him that they decided not to move. Archie tells Mike that he would have been ok with the move, in fact he had decided to pay for the moving expenses. This pleased Mike to no end. It peased Edith also. Later when the were alone, Edith praised Archie for his generosity. "Oh I wasn't really going to pay" said Archie, "There is nothing wrong with generosity so long as it doesn't cost anything." :D

Sorry,

RandFan

[Yahweh]

Good Stuff In The Bible (http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/good/long.html)

[riverlethe]

I like where Jesus tears through the temple in Jerusalem, crying, "You have turned my Father's house into a den of thieves!"

Someone should do that to the Church. ;)

[Iacchus]

How about the whole chapter of Matthew 23 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?language=English&version=KJV&passage=Matthew+23) where Jesus rebukes the scribes and Pharisees? All I can say is the guy was not joking about this stuff! Here's just a preview ...


23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also. ~ Matthew 23:23-26 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?language=English&version=KJV&passage=Matthew+23)Doesn't this suggest to you that the problem may not be religion itself but, what people do with it?

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by Iacchus



Doesn't this suggest to you that the problem may not be religion itself but, what people do with it?
Well, DOH!


Replace ' religion ' with gun, pencil, KY-Jelly... Get the idea?

[Wrath of the Swarm]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Doesn't this suggest to you that the problem may not be religion itself but, what people do with it? But religion is what people do with it. Take away the tradition, and there's nothing left.

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Diogenes

Well, DOH!

Replace ' religion ' with gun, pencil, KY-Jelly... Get the idea? So what's the problem with religion then? I still get the impression that there's something terribly wrong with it? What do you think about this particular passage then?


23 And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn.

24 And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?

25 And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him?

26 How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him?

27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath. ~ Mark 2:23-28 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?language=English&version=KJV&passage=Mark+2)Unlike what Wrath of the Swarm was saying it seems to dispell the notion of tradition. In fact it suggests there must something more to it than that. Why do you think He got the scribes and Pharisees so ticked off? While here's another passage ...


1 Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,

2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.

3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.

5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;

6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.

7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. ~ Matthew 15:1-9 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?language=English&version=KJV&passage=Matthew+15)Of course it does make you wonder what it has to do with going to church now doesn't it? While here are the next few verses ...


10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:

11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

12 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?

13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.

14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch. ~ Matthew 15:10-14 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?language=English&version=KJV&passage=Matthew+15)So, it doesn't seem to suggest anything kindly towards those (certain people) who practice religion, and yet at the same time it doesn't invalidate it either, particular where we need to understand the need for morals -- which by the way, are the only true laws of God. This I think is what most people need to understand.

[Keneke]

Originally posted by Iacchus
So what's the problem with religion then? I still get the impression that there's something terribly wrong with it?

I would answer your question, as well as debate almost every point you made in this post, but then I'd be accused of derailing the thread. :rolleyes: Suffice it to say that some people do have problems with it, and I'll leave it at that. :P

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Keneke

I would answer your question, as well as debate almost every point you made in this post, but then I'd be accused of derailing the thread. :rolleyes: Suffice it to say that some people do have problems with it, and I'll leave it at that. :P I don't go to church by the way, if that has any bearing on the matter. ;)

[Riddick]

Let whoever is among you without sin, cast the first stone.

[Suezoled]

Originally posted by Riddick
Let whoever is among you without sin, cast the first stone.

reference, please.

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Suezoled

reference, please. This is a great story! ...


1 Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.

2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.

3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,

4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. ~ John 8:1-11 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?language=English&version=KJV&passage=John+8)

[Suezoled]

Iacchus, I am well aware of the story. I was curious if he who quoted the passage could reference it himself for me.

[Riddick]

Originally posted by Suezoled
reference, please.
The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" 7When they kept on questioning him (Jesus), he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." - John 8:7 NIV

[riverlethe]

Riddick, no offense, but your sig is a very amusing if/then statement.

[Riddick]

no offense taken, might you expand on your statement?

[phildonnia]

Here's some of my favorites...

Evolution:
"yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast" (Ec 3:19)

Public prayer:
"But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray..." (Mt 6:6)

Sex:
"let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love." (Pr 5:19)

Science:
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." (1 Th 5:21)

[The idea]

Originally posted by Riddick
In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" [...]

The version in my signature line has a more interesting ending, don't you think?

Here is my signature for anyone who is using the invisible signatures setting:

They said, "Teacher, this woman has been caught in the very act of having sex with a married man who is not her husband. Moses said that we must use stones to kill such women. What do You say?"

Jesus replied, "Moses said it. I believe it. That settles it."

[Disclaimer: the above is not intended to assert that Jesus actually replied with those words. There is supposed to be a contrast between the above reply and the traditionally quoted reply. If a typical, self-proclaimed follower of Jesus had been in Jesus' shoes, which answer would he or she have given?]]


[Edited because I edited my signature line.]

[evildave]

Genesis 34 is pretty cool.

My favorite story of the whole bible.

I call it The Pecker Chopper Massacre (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=GEN+34&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on).

You probably know it as
Dinah and the Shechemites (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=GEN+34&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on)

[phildonnia]

Originally posted by evildave
Genesis 34 is pretty cool.

My favorite story of the whole bible.

I call it The Pecker Chopper Massacre (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=GEN+34&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on).


That ain't pecker chopping. That's just pecker wounding. The chopping happens here (http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/ezek/29.html#7).