To Santa Claus or not to Santa Claus

[davefoc]

This issue of whether to tell your kids about Santa Claus or not came up in this week's commentary again.

I thought it might be interesting to hear how it was handled by some other parents out there. A little description of my experience follows:

I never thought that my wife and I would tell our kids about Santa Claus. I've always been big on truth and the idea of lieing to my children made me very uncomfortable. My wife had other ideas and made it clear to me in her wifely way that we were going to tell our children about Santa Claus.

The experience with our first daughter was about what I had expected. She gradually became more skeptical until the time that she was about eight when she had pretty much figured it out for herself. The effect of telling her about Santa Claus seemed to have little net effect on her life. The benefits might have been that she got some experience in sorting out reason from bul sh*t, it allowed her to fit in with her simillarly misled friends a little better and she had a little fun with it while she believed in it. The disadvantage might have been that she trusted her parents a little less (maybe not a disadvantage) when the truth came out. But overall I don't things the Santa Claus Myth had much impact on her life.

The experience with our second daughter was quite different. She showed no signs of skepticism about Santa Claus up until she was about eight. I was becoming uncomfortable with her reluctance to contrast the Santa Claus myth with the details of the real world that she was coming to know as an eight year old. Even her friends were beginning to tell her about their own "there is no Santa Claus" theories , but she still clung to the Santa Claus story.

Eventualy, my wife took her aside and told her the truth. When my daughter heard this she was distraught for hours. Finally when my wife could talk to her my wife asked her if she was sorry that she had ever misled her about Santa Claus. My daughter's answer was "no, she was sorry she had ever told her the truth".

My second daughter is a true believer of many things. I don't quite understand this having been a skeptic for my entire life. But in the end, I think telling her about Santa Claus when she was young has had little impact on this aspect of her life or any other.

Would I tell my kids about Santa Claus, if I had it to do over again? No, if it was my decision alone, but if my wife made it a big issue again, I'd just go along. I don't think it's that big a deal one way or the other.

I let my daughter believe in Santa Claus, and I don't see any damage done. The great thing about childhood is the wonder and belief in make believe. Especially, in children under five.

I think she was about 6 or 7 when she began to ask the hard questions about Santa, being incredulous that someone could travel around the world so fast even with the time zones etc.. I told her the truth when pressed. She said she had known for a while. I told her the cool thing is that now that she knows about Santa, she can be Santa for others. She enjoys buying presents from Santa to other people, and still gets presents from Santa herself.

I also want to say that I was much the same as your second daughter. I remember the pang of disappointment in finding out that there really was no Santa. Sometimes Sceptisim develops with age so don't sweat it yet!

[arcticpenguin]

It is sinful to promote belief in Santa Claus. Santa does things that are clearly impossible through normal means, therefore he must be supernatural, i.e. a deity. And the Bible makes it very clear that there is only one deity worthy of our belief and worship.

[Sanamas]

My parents taught me that there is no Santa Claus, but it is fun to pretend. That is the best option, in my opinion. Thus, I was able to have all the fun of Santa Claus during Christmas, and just stopped bothering once I got older.

[espritch]

A lady at my office, who is a Christian, once told me that she was a little worried about telling her grand kids about Santa Claus. She worried that when they found out that Santa was just a story, they might start doubting other things she told them about...like God.

In the name of civility, I held my tongue and did not note that the only difference between God and Santa Clause it that no one ever committed mass murder in the name of Santa Clause. There are some opportunities that you just have to let slide.

[Puppycow]

She worried that when they found out that Santa was just a story, they might start doubting other things she told them about...like God.

Yes, this is why the anti-Santa movement comes from Christains. It is interesting that the good Reverend in the article used logic and the laws of physics to prove Santa wasn't real. The real story of Christmas, of course, is that a virgin gave birth to God in human form - not something so incredible as the Santa Claus story. Of course, assigning magical powers to Santa would clear up those pesky little problems.

[davefoc]

Thank you to those of you who replied to this thread. I appreciated hearing about the experiences of other people on this somewhat more personal issue than what we normally discuss on this forum.

Personally, I am very much in sync with cavin and Sanamas. It was nice to see that this approach had worked for them. It's what I would have liked to have done, but in my marriage most of the time we do things my way, so when my wife takes a stand I pretty much fold. Sort of out of guilt and sort of because I like to have sex.

I was pretty sure that articpenquin was being facecious (you were, weren't you). He and Puppycow touched on an area that I've wondered why more Christians don't worry about. If you can bullsh*t the kids this easily are you sure you're not doing the same with religion. Or isn't it sacreligious to be pushing false supernatural entities when there's only supposed to be one?

Thank you especially to Denise, I enjoyed hearing about your experience on this.

To Espritch, I have internal thoughts like this, but never in my most in-your-face day have I ever wanted to say them. We also share something else in common. When I wrote the initial post, I couldn't stop spelling Santa Claus Santa Clause. I don't think I ever did succeed, I just kept going back and deleting the e. You might try that if you ever need to write Santa Claus again.

Lastly to cavin, what the heck is your comment about black peter about? You mean in some Santa Claus mythology he has a slave? Wow the stuff you learn on this forum.

[psy kick]

I decided before my son was born not to give him the Santa myth.
I decided I didn't want to lie to him,e vne in fantasy ways.
So he knows that when I told him about Jesus, its true, unlike Santa and tooth Fairies, which are myths.
awaiting flames.....:)

Strange, this topic seems to come up fairly regularly among my crowd. I rarely get to say everything I want about it, so I'll take the chance to do so here.

My own experiance was a gradual realization that Santa is not a real person (elf?). Eventually my mother set us down and confirmed it. Even at that time, we had already learned that we could give anomynous gifts by putting "Santa" on the FROM label. I don't think the realization disrupted my relationship with my parents in any way.

In recent years, I have become interested in the nature of consciousness. This quickly lead to studying child psychology because, well, a child has only a rudimentary consciousness when born, yet develops a very complex consciousness within a decade (hopefully). Then I discovered the work of Jean Piaget. Many of the readers of this forum are undoubtably familiar with Piaget. However, if by chance you are not, Piaget was a Swiss child psychologist. What I found incredibly enjoyable was his inclusion of his interviews, verbatum, in his published work.

However, the Santa Claus debate reminds me of a discussion in _A_Child's_Conception_of_Causality.
The question asked to children was "What keeps
a boat from sinking?" The responses varied from complete disinterest; fallacious, but considered, reasons; and correct answers. Piaget was not interested in correcting children, but determining how they percieved the world. Children below the age of 3 generally were uninterested in the question. At the age (roughly) of 4 the answer had to do with size, small things floated, big things didn't. By 6 it had changed to light things floated, heavy things didn't. The cause attributed for things floating at this age was usually that the water pushed the item up. Finally, by age 10 most children understood, to some degree, the idea of displacement.

Piaget's conclusion was that as children learn more about the world, they are better able to differentiate among the items within it. Thus, at a very young age, everything that is big is heavy, dense, and thus sinks. As a child grows, it learns that some big things float (like wooden blocks) while some small things sink (like pebbles). So the reason things float is based on weight, not size. Finally, with yet more experiance in the world, a further discovery is made that even weight is not a good indicator, but a combination of weight and volume is better. Which leads to the idea of displacement.

By now you're wondering how this relates to Santa. Well, there is more to Santa than an anti-burglar. The idea Santa Claus, like any other complex idea, carries a lot of meaning beyond a physical manfestation. Santa represents a concern for other people, an attempt to understand other people, a reminder to bring happiness to other people. Santa is an anonymous gift, a smile during a stressful holiday, a kindness we would like to feel all the year round.

These ideas are not easy to convey to children. But children can be shown the jolly old elf, and shown the kindness he provides. Children can learn compassion, forgivness, charity, thoughtfulness, and understanding through the example provided by Santa Claus. This ideal can be taught without the guilt associated with the passion of Christ. This ideal can be illustrated better than using adults as examples.

And, as a child learns to distinguish between the physical and societal worlds it lives in, a child will distinguish between the physical unreality of Santa Claus, and the societal reality of what Santa Claus represents.

So while I don't believe a chunky fellow lands his sleigh on my roof every December, I do believe in the things he stands for. So I believe in Santa.

-Flex

[JesFine]

I was probably about 6 or 7 when I realized Santa was really my parents. But I kept up the charade that I believed in Santa so that I would keep getting presents from him until probably about age 10 or so. Was I the only one?

But then at 11 I figured I was too old to still believe in Santa, and that Christmas, I still got presents from Santa.

Then I realized that I didn't have to lie about Santa all those years and I still would have gotten the presents, and I wouldn't have had to keep up the charade when classmates came over to the house and argued with me about whether or not Santa was real.

I'm not sure what I learned from all this. I am pretty sure that I wasn't traumatized by any of it.

[iain]

Originally posted by JesFine
I was probably about 6 or 7 when I realized Santa was really my parents. But I kept up the charade that I believed in Santa so that I would keep getting presents from him until probably about age 10 or so. Was I the only one? My recollection is similar. I think that I realised Santa was not real at about 6, but didn't tell my parents I realised it because I thought it would hurt their feelings (don't ask why I thought this, I have no idea).

Other than Santa, my parents were always pretty honest with me. That was good, but as has been mentioned, it did mean that I was always a little less able to cope with people being intentionally dishonest (i.e. as a child I was always gullible and trusting; I'm a bit better now but that's because I force myself to think things through - my gut instinct is always to take things at face value, then I have to rescue myself).

[DrMatt]

That's funny, you don't LOOK Druish!

[Kilted_Canuck]

Originally posted by JesFine
I was probably about 6 or 7 when I realized Santa was really my parents. But I kept up the charade that I believed in Santa so that I would keep getting presents from him until probably about age 10 or so. Was I the only one?

But then at 11 I figured I was too old to still believe in Santa, and that Christmas, I still got presents from Santa.

I'm not sure what I learned from all this. I am pretty sure that I wasn't traumatized by any of it.

Nope, I did that too, and I even think that it helped me find skepticism, and learning to not-quite-believe everything I'm told.

I'm no expert, but wouldn't not telling the children possibly make them think that the whole world will be honest with them, and not give them that little bit of skepticism that every youth should get?

Thats just my view on the topic...

[neutrino_cannon]

When I was raised the concepts of Santa and God were very much foreign to me. I remember very distinctly being told about GOD by an enthusiastic friend, and being confused. Later my mother had to explain that only some people beleive in God.

And as for santa clause, my father is enough against the concept of christmas (there are some who say his liver is two sizes too small), so there was very little christmas revelry and parties beyond what we got invited to or mom set up.

I, for one would tell my children that santa clause doesn't exist.

[Megalodon]

Originally posted by espritch
... the only difference between God and Santa Clause it that no one ever committed mass murder in the name of Santa Clause...

Next December 24th, check out your local mall.

The horror, the horror...

[K-W]

I think that reinforcing blind faith beliefs for a significant portion of a childhood can only hinder raising a kid who thinks critically. Mostly I just hate lying.