Which Topic is Worthy of Exploration?

[Ed]

These things are part of traditional belief systems of various peoples around the world. They are really believed by some and have stood the test of time, which, according to some provides valid support for their existance.

I have epitomized these practices and identified their putative outcomes and provided a page reference to Frazer's The Golden Bough for additional reading and erudite references.

So, what looks good to you folks?

[Kerberos]

Originally posted by Ed
These things are part of traditional belief systems of various peoples around the world. They are really believed by some and have stood the test of time, which, according to some provides valid support for their existance.

I have epitomized these practices and identified their putative outcomes and provided a page reference to Frazer's The Golden Bough for additional reading and erudite references.

So, what looks good to you folks?
Why haven't you included any of my excellent sugestions for research?:brk: :hit: :mad: :bricks:

[ceptimus]

No Planet X option?

It would be more relevant in this poll than most. For some, Planet X is a deeply held belief.

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Hang a skin on a pole? Do I want to know what kind of skin?

Anyway, I voted for the toad since it seems the most reasonable.

~~ Paul

[Darat]

Voted for "Toss Dust and blow at sun to make it set faster".

My reasoning being that if you did that the likelihood is that you'd get dust in your eyes. And then by the time they stopped watering the sun would have set and you'd think "Bloody hell the sun was only just setting before I tossed the dust, the dust must have made it set whilst I couldn't see."

[teddygrahams]

Isn't that skin on a pole thingee called a "Teepee" ? Or is it a Wigwam ?

[Abdul Alhazred]

Originally posted by Ed
These things are part of traditional belief systems of various peoples around the world. They are really believed by some and have stood the test of time, which, according to some provides valid support for their existance.

I have epitomized these practices and identified their putative outcomes and provided a page reference to Frazer's The Golden Bough for additional reading and erudite references.

So, what looks good to you folks?

I voted 'hold toads captive', but you really have throw them against a wall to get useful results.

http://www.veranda.com.ph/rps/drawings/kermit.jpgRibbit!

[Ed]

We need more votes folks to make this anecdote have legs.

Vote dammit!

[El Greco]

I voted, but you left out my favorite: Sticking needles in voodoo dolls to harm people. IT WORKS, I tell you!

[Ed]

Originally posted by Kerberos

Why haven't you included any of my excellent sugestions for research?:brk: :hit: :mad: :bricks:

Because the characteristics of beliefs that are worthy (according to Ian) include:

1) A long history of employment
2) Anecdotal evidence of efficacy

These are necessary and sufficient for a claim to be taken seriously. Kerberos, old bean, we are sceptics here [shrugs] and we don't just blithely take seriously any old claim that comes over the transom. We are logical wights and openminded to boot [shrugs, twitches]. After all, you silly woo, if we were investigating anything as absurd as "tomatoes in a bag" there would be little time for investigation of things of merit like throwing things against a wall [shrugs, twitches, grimices] or toad propitiation and my personal interest, toad discipline.

[shrugs, twitches, grimices, looses control of bladder] The point here, with which Ian clearly agrees based on his choice of quaint activities that have merit, is that we must be rigourous in our vetting process. [shrugs, twitches, grimices, looses control of bladder, falls on floor in full blown grande mal episode].

Please get with the program and get your friends to vote since this poll, in itself, is evidence for these things, of a sort.

To those coming late to this thread, let me assure you that the poll items are real practices that are paranormal in nature. They meet the requirements for serious exploration. The only reason that I can conjure up for a low position on the woo play list is racism pure and simple. After all, mysterious men of the east have "secrets" of the ages, don't they? They wear cool safron robes and mutter in really arcane languages. Ever since George Harrison lost it with that Guru guy, idle white kids of all ages have given creedence to any eastern insane babblings.

Compare, if you will, to the natives of the Mato Grosso. Naked, sorta dirty, no cool robes, no Beatles BUT they do have legitimate beliefs that have their authenticity rooted in antiquity. Why are they ignored? Why would Ian, Luci, Clancie, Steve Grenard and others cleve to the beliefs they do and ignore those of people that they might perceive as inferior? Racism.

So, cast a vote for woo equality, cast a vote for openmindedness, cast a vote for babbling diversity and pick a belief to explore.

Thank you.

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Do you think it's possible that two cultures could each have part of the True Thing, but never get the parts together due to cultural separation?

I'm thinking here that perhaps throwing toads against the wall to predict the future might be the True Thing.

~~ Paul

[Chad Noles]

While throwing frogs against a wall may have it's own sadistic pleasure[ducks PETA attack] I don't think that it is required to predict the future.Note:no amphibians were hurt by the writer while creating this reply. :p

[DangerousBeliefs]

Originally posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Do you think it's possible that two cultures could each have part of the True Thing, but never get the parts together due to cultural separation?

I'm thinking here that perhaps throwing toads against the wall to predict the future might be the True Thing.

~~ Paul

You're supposed to lick the toad...

That damn PETA is against it (http://www.bbspot.com/News/2000/10/toad_lick.html) though.

[DickK]

Originally posted by Ed


Because ...[snip]... you. Ed,

That added pain to an otherwise brief 3 minutes. I really don't need the rain, but my current parole conditions sort of mandate toad restraint, all the way. Anyone who thinks otherwise (1) stinks(ibid.) (2) can smash my effigy :mad: etc, etc!!!. Will this be a problem or am I merely at the mercy of mad, bad materialist determinism?

And btw, be proud! If you're having problems sourcing quality toads, it's only natural to express that as a preference for toad discipline. With your example, we can all live in hope and one day will all live lives untrammelled by reason and those damned parking fines. Once again thanks :mad: :mad: ??? :eek: :eek: !!!1111

I remain your humble &c, &c.

PS: send money

[shanek]

I voted "Destroy an effigy" because it sounds the most fun. :D

[Ed]

Originally posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Do you think it's possible that two cultures could each have part of the True Thing, but never get the parts together due to cultural separation?

I'm thinking here that perhaps throwing toads against the wall to predict the future might be the True Thing.

~~ Paul

Excellent, Paul!

You are getting with the spirit of the thing. Hypothesize in the absence of any evidence then test it (badly). I can see it now:

Hindu-Hibernian Confluence: A Research Program in Support of the Hypothesis That there Exists a Psychic Link, Mediated by Ley Lines, Between Two Diverse Sacred Cultures

Why not. If it is stated there is reason to believe, no?

I am still waiting for someone to explain why this exploration is fundimentially different from RV or I Ching or Telekinesis or Ghosts or Mediums or other worthwhile areas for inquerry.

[Ed]

Originally posted by DickK
Ed,

That added pain to an otherwise brief 3 minutes.

...snip...

I remain your humble &c, &c.

PS: send money

I am not sure that I understand your post. That, of course, probably means that it is highly insightful, much like PEAR.

Why pain? Are you a toad? Have you "shape shifted"? If so, some might suggest that you be offered a grant for further study. Our crackerjack team of psychic explorers stand ready to examine you throughly.

This thread is barely a day old and already we have a major new study in the offing (Paul) and something paranormal in our midst begging for investigation.

Amazing.

[shemp]

Hows about a None of the Above option next time?

[Ed]

Originally posted by shemp
Hows about a None of the Above option next time?

Forced choice, sorry:D

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

My son, being a big toad lover, demanded that we conduct experiments throwing toads against the wall and predicting the future. It was quite accurate. However, we found that we could improve the accuracy if we first force-fed the toads some camomile tea.

~~ Paul

[T'ai Chi]

If something can sensibly be tested, sure, why not? Skeptics aren't lazy.

Of these things:

-Throw sticks against wall, predict future
-Hold toads captive, get rain
-Toss Dust and blow at sun to make it set faster
-Destroy an effigy of the Devil to cause summer to come
-Hang a skin on a pole, stop the wind

[Ed]

Originally posted by T'ai Chi
If something can sensibly be tested, sure, why not? Skeptics aren't lazy.

Of these things:

-Throw sticks against wall, predict future
-Hold toads captive, get rain
-Toss Dust and blow at sun to make it set faster
-Destroy an effigy of the Devil to cause summer to come
-Hang a skin on a pole, stop the wind

If you haven't read it, pick up a copy of Frazer. I am sure that there are many things in there that would appeal to you. I like the toads the best, personally. Toad disipline, reminds me of Berlin in the '20's. Anyway, certainly as much evidence for these as for most of the rather pedestrian things that come up here.

[Loki]

I voted to destroy an effigy because the Devil is a bad man, and I think destroying an effigy of him will not only bring on summer, but will also cause him some embarassment.

[T'ai Chi]

Originally posted by T'ai Chi
If something can sensibly be tested, sure, why not? Skeptics aren't lazy.

Of these things:

-Throw sticks against wall, predict future
-Hold toads captive, get rain
-Toss Dust and blow at sun to make it set faster
-Destroy an effigy of the Devil to cause summer to come
-Hang a skin on a pole, stop the wind

Oops, I pressed Submit before completing my thought.

Of these things:

-Throw sticks against wall, predict future
-Hold toads captive, get rain
-Toss Dust and blow at sun to make it set faster
-Destroy an effigy of the Devil to cause summer to come
-Hang a skin on a pole, stop the wind

They can all be tested.

If someone who believes in these things could make them less vague and more specific, they could be tested.

You might say people only consider that worthy of testing what they believe to be more plausible. Well, I'd counter that those who consider the above things beyond testing are believers themselves, because they are believing that the above are immune from being tested.

[Chad Noles]

Posted by ShaneK:
I voted "Destroy an effigy" because it sounds the most fun.

and posted by Loki:I voted to destroy an effigy because the Devil is a bad man, and I think destroying an effigy of him will not only bring on summer, but will also cause him some embarassment.

Friggin' Hippie Woo-woos:http://www.burningman.com/

[Vitnir]

I'm afraid it's impossible to choose in your poll. All are proven to work beyond reasonable doubt and so it's pointless to study them further.

PS ;)

[Tricky]

I cannot believe that so many of you are hostile towards toads. :mad: Toads are GOOD! They eat bugs.

Perhaps the amphibiphobia displayed here is very telling about skeptics. They are, at heart, cruel people. Or so it would appear from this poll.

[sackett]

Over at the NDE forum, a poster recently delivered himself of this:

"Evidence is just some fashionable modern word coined up by empiricists to try and pretend that they have arrived at something certain, when all belief in this universe are necessarily uncertain. Knowledge, a much better word, is what I believe in, and I believe that there are varying degrees of knowledge."

Testing? Observing? Concluding? Re-testing? Oh foolish ones, seek not the oneness of being, but the being of ishkabibble!

[Ed]

Bump for more votes. Perhaps T'ai will investigate the toad thing.

[The Mighty Thor]

What? No virgins? Give us a choice that involves virgins . . . please . . . please!

Oops, sorry. I thought you were starting a new religion.

[cbish]

Ed wrote:
They are really believed by some and have stood the test of time, which, according to some provides valid support for their existance.

I thought it was being believed by a whole bunch of people that provides valid support for their existance.!?!

T'ai Chi wrote:
They can all be tested.

If someone who believes in these things could make them less vague and more specific, they could be tested.

You might say people only consider that worthy of testing what they believe to be more plausible. Well, I'd counter that those who consider the above things beyond testing are believers themselves, because they are believing that the above are immune from being tested.

Go for it!!

[T'ai Chi]

Originally posted by Ed
Bump for more votes. Perhaps T'ai will investigate the toad thing.

I said that these things could be tested if they are made less vague.

What do I have to do with investigating these claims Ed??

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by T'ai Chi
What do I have to do with investigating these claims Ed??


Ed,

He didn't get it.

[T'ai Chi]

Originally posted by cbish

T'ai Chi wrote:

Go for it!!

*sigh* ditto here.

Me saying they could be tested does not equate with me testing them.

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by T'ai Chi
Me saying they could be tested does not equate with me testing them.

Aren't you the one complaining that skeptics don't investigate all claims?

[T'ai Chi]

Originally posted by CFLarsen

Aren't you the one complaining that skeptics don't investigate all claims?

No. What made you believe that??

I'm saying that if self proclaimed skeptics are saying that well-defined I-Ching claims shouldn't be tested, explain why, and moreover, if they believe that no more studies should be done because a lot or all past studies on it have been non-significant, to list some of these studies.

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by T'ai Chi
No. What made you believe that??

Originally posted by T'ai Chi
Why don't you test it?

Source (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=1870372446#post1870372446)


Gee...

[Hamish]

Originally posted by Tricky
I cannot believe that so many of you are hostile towards toads. :mad: Toads are GOOD! They eat bugs.


Lo! A possible mechanism! Toads eat bugs. Toads held captive, therefore less bugs eaten, therefore more bugs around. Bugs affect local atmospheric conditions and cause rain!

Prove this can't happen! :p

I saw on the local news last night that they're builing a conservation area for toads! This is a pathetic attempt by local government to try to boost popularity and gain votes by increasing the number of local free toads and thus decreasing the local rainfall and increasing the number of sunny days!

Conspiracy!

Ok, I'm done. :D

[Kerberos]

Originally posted by T'ai Chi
If something can sensibly be tested, sure, why not? Skeptics aren't lazy.
Says who? :D
Originally posted by T'ai Chi
[B
I'm saying that if self proclaimed skeptics are saying that well-defined I-Ching claims shouldn't be tested, explain why, and moreover, if they believe that no more studies should be done because a lot or all past studies on it have been non-significant, to list some of these studies. [/B]
We don't believe it "shouldn't" be tested, we believe it's not worth testing. If somebody with way to much spare time on his hands wants to give it a shot, then I don't think anybody here would object.

[The Mighty Thor]

Originally posted by Kerberos

Says who? :D

We don't believe it "shouldn't" be tested, we believe it's not worth testing. If somebody with way to much spare time on his hands wants to give it a shot, then I don't think anybody here would object.

That's it, in a nutshell. Who could argue with that?

[T'ai Chi]

Originally posted by CFLarsen

Gee...

That still doesn't validate your belief that I am complaining that skeptics should investigate all claims.

[T'ai Chi]

Originally posted by Kerberos

We don't believe it "shouldn't" be tested, we believe it's not worth testing.

And just how did you arrive at that conclusion?

Through scientific methods I'm sure..

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by T'ai Chi
That still doesn't validate your belief that I am complaining that skeptics should investigate all claims.

But of course it doesn't! Anything you don't like - even evidence - is simply boiled down to "belief", to be dismissed by you.

Not that it goes away, just so you know...

[T'ai Chi]

Originally posted by CFLarsen


But of course it doesn't! Anything you don't like - even evidence - is simply boiled down to "belief", to be dismissed by you.

Not that it goes away, just so you know...

Yes, I understand your belief won't go away, that is because you haven't presented any rational evidence for it, as you know.

[Beleth]

I voted for the frogs because it sounded like the best combination of ease and fun.

Go get two identical cages, find two little farm-belt towns 100 miles apart.

Catch frogs in one town. Put frogs in cage.

Do not catch frogs in the other town.

Do this for, say, the entire season of spring. Or whenever you can start catching frogs.

Measure difference in amounts of rain at the end of spring.

Next year, switch frog-catching and control towns.

[Chad Noles]

Reminder:Be sure to use approved gloves when handling frogs or toads to prevent warts.:D

[Fun2BFree]

Average Beliefs may or may not be arrived at independently. usually they are not. Example: Destroy all knowledge of christianity and it likely will not be seen again in its current form. but

when multiple independent sources keep coming up with the same "belief" that qualifies for a special award we call scientific truth.

These different "beliefs" that TaiCHi wants to equate do not share the same pedigree. and to imply that they do is faulty logic and it obscures not reveals any truth.

[Hellbound]

Fun:

I'd modify that slightly:

When multiple independent sources keep coming up with the same "belief", a belief that is useful and accurately models the real world, that qualifies for a special award we call scientific truth.

Otherwise you're committing an Appeal to Popularity.

[petre]

Did the server just burp? I see a thread from 2004 about strange claims to investigate, a poll about TAM, and two recent posts that seem unrelated to either. Am I missing something?

[Hellbound]

Ah, must be the poll bug.

When you respond to a poll, it shifts you to a seemingly random other poll after you submit.

I only read the last post (as I was on viewing new) and didn't notice.