Exposing the freemen/redemption gurus

[jargon buster]

Any information found on the web relating to the freeman/commercial redemption gurus peddling their wares can be submitted for discussion.

If this isnt in the right place, then can a moderator please amend its location.

[Grassy Knowlington]

From Mr Ray St Claire's website:

"There were chaotic scenes as around 600 activists from the British Constitution Group massed around Birkenhead county court [Mar 7th 2011] chanting “freedom,” and “arrest that judge” as police with riot dogs attempted to hold them back.

Protesters stormed the courtroom and civilly arrested Judge Michael Peake before escorting him from the building. Peake was eventually wrestled away from protesters by police as the activists chanted, “Do your job” to the police. Dozens more police arrived to set up blockades and numerous protesters were arrested.

Peake was ruling on a case involving Roger Hayes, former member of UKIP, who has refused to pay council tax, both as a protest against the government’s treasonous activities in sacrificing Britain to globalist interests and as a result of Hayes clearly proving that council tax is illegal."


Anyone seen/know of evidence of the presence of 'riot dogs'? Was Justice Peake really escorted away by protesters? What on earth would they have done with him in any case?

[jargon buster]

Under the law of England and Wales, members of the public are allowed to use reasonable force to make a lawful arrest. The situations in which a citizen can lawfully make an arrest are, in fact, identical to those in which a police officer can make an arrest. A citizen can lawfully arrest a person:

Who is committing an arrestable offence or if the citizen has reasonable grounds to suspect that they are committing an arrestable offence. – Arrestable offences are ones which, in law, carry a power of arrest. These include theft and most types of assault;
Who has committed an arrestable offence or who the citizen reasonably suspects to have committed an arrestable offence;
Who is causing a breach of the peace.
Under recent legislation there may also be the additional requirements that:
The citizen could not reasonably have called on a police officer to carry out the arrest; and,
The arrest was necessary to prevent injury, loss or damage of property, or to prevent someone avoiding arrest by a police officer.

So by law they did not have the right to arrest the Judge as it did not fall under the legislation, as such I would have been looking at charging them with kidnap.
HOWEVER THEY DIDNT GET ANYWHERE NEAR HIM.

[gtm]

It's worth remembering that 'St clair' is a notorious conman. His real name is Gary Martin Beaver. He was involved in selling worthless titles of nobility & web marketing scams prior to his new incarnation as a FMOTL guru 'par excellence'. FMOTL is simply another con for him. He gets to maintain his lifestyle by punting FMOTL material devised by other gurus (as his own) to unsuspecting cretins for money.

There is a little, tiny bit of me that admires his chuzpah in selling 2nd hand woo but at the end of the day he's a parasitical worm.

http://www.realscam.com/f11/ray-st-clair-real-story-49/index2.html

http://www.faketitles.com/html/the_eager_beaver.html

[jargon buster]

If anybody wants to look at the house he lives in drop me a PM.
I have a lovely photo of it.

Oh and he pays his council tax, you wouldn't risk being evicted from where he lives for a couple of grand.

A poster on TPUC (el scampio) did a marvellous expose on him.
http://forum.davidicke.com/showpost.php?p=1058588989&postcount=29
http://www.calameo.com/books/0002862895551c2dc783a

[Stacey Grove]

It's worth remembering that 'St clair' is a notorious conman. His real name is Gary Martin Beaver.
Not according to his best mate (the well known guru) John Harris he isn't.
John Harris (who now calls himself Sion:rolleyes:) has just posted this in a thread about St Clair on tpuc:

To all concerned....

I have locked this thread and it will be deleted in a few days after all concerned have had chance to read what I have to say.

Ray St Clair is a very good friend of mine who is generous, kind and has a big heart. I know Ray very well and can one hundred percent say that he is NOT Gary Beaver. A friend of mine has actually had communication with the real Gary Beaver and we know that this is not Ray, so please for once and for all accept this fact. Granted Ray does have a bit of a chequered past, but to be honest who doesn’t in one way or another - I have not exactly been an angel myself. Yes Ray has faults the same as I have faults and to be honest so does everyone, so please do me a favour and get off his back – unless of course you are cleaner than clean!!

This forum is about respecting everyone and finding friendships it is not for the kind of thing that has happened to Ray and nor will I tolerate this behaviour anymore. I have always tried to allow the forum to be a place where most subjects can be discussed, but to be honest after recent events – including this with Ray – I now must stop this going any further.

From this moment anyone who posts this sort of attack about someone better get their facts straight first and also ask themselves “do I really need to post this”. Because if this happens again, whoever posted the topic will be banned – this also includes moderators! I will not tolerate this anymore.

I do not want to do this, but if you cannot act with decency, kindness and simple respect towards one another then I will rule this forum with an iron fist until such time as you come to your senses and do as such. You can call it tough love if you like.

I trust I have made myself clear.

Sion x

http://www.tpuc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=30555&start=70

So, St Clair has had a "chequered past" but don't mention it or you will be banned.:D
Just the type of behaviour that if it were TPTB acting in this manner, Harris would criticise.

[jargon buster]

Its no secret that St Clair has backed Harris in the past so its to be expected that he fights his corner for him.

If anyone can watch a Harris video and believes that he knows what he is talking about is beyond help, the guy cant even string a sentence together.

[Grassy Knowlington]

Mr Ray St Claire is Supreme Being Gary Beaver? Just a case of mistaken identity based on a passing resemblence surely:rolleyes:

http://www.faketitles.com/html/the_eager_beaver.html

http://www.baronage.co.uk/2001/faq901.html

http://www.raymondstclair.com/

[jargon buster]

http://www.lawfulbank.com/

There will be a fee of around £10 UK to open an account with this system we prefer to call this a donation, this will help with the software and admin costs, cards and all the usual banking system facilities will be made available to you once it is up and running

A bank set up by the WFS and the British Constitution Group.

Menard and St Clair with access to your cash, good luck with that.

[Captain_Swoop]

If it's in the UK it will be subject to all the regulations that other UK banks are subject to.
How will it be any different.
If you want a bank that is 'safe' then get an account with the Co-Operative Bank. or one of the Building Societies that are still 'Mutual'

[jargon buster]

the difference with that one is that you pay your tenner for a promise that you will get an account.

By the way, I have signed up and am now waiting for my e-mail to tell me when I have to pay my ten pounds :D

[ComfySlippers]

Was it an April Fool's joke?

cards and all the usual banking system facilities will be made available to you once it is up and running

Just no. The usual facilities will be made available? Cards?

Utter rubbish.

[jargon buster]

cash points/hole in the walls???

I cant wait.

[ComfySlippers]

The Lawful Bank (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Blue-Hat-Toy-Company-Kids-ATM-Bank/12536432)

[jargon buster]

Update on how the LAWFUL BANK will operate
http://www.tpuc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=31292&start=20
Hi Everyone
i will explain a little about the system , firstly to offset any suspicions Fractional reserve banking is as it is because of the interest charged , this is where the greed came in . and where the mess came from that caused us all to be slaves

ok heres a little example of how it works for the purpose of loans

the current system is based on creating nothing out of thin air and cheekily charging you interest

a simple scenario currently a mortgage of £250,000 over 20 yrs costs based on a 5% interest rate £1671.72 per month total repaid £401 212.8 assuming no overpayment

under the new system it would cost 1041.67 per month over 20 yrs total repayable £250,000 plus a 10% setup fee total £275,000 a saving of over £126,000 that is a lot of money saved


this system is based on a pledge from each customer of £100 (there will be option to go to £1000)
so with 1 million customers the system has a real worth of £100 million +

set up fees pay for the system and staff wages etc profit is paid back to customers in each branch

the bank is owned by all the members , and locally by the customers

a committee of people decides who to install as staff , bank manager etc you can set up your own branch in your area and raise your committee , you can even work in the bank or be its manager etc subject to a vote

outside auditing each year by auditors who do not have any interest or account in that branch , with full transparency


Everything done to full rules of law (Common law) if you do wrong you will be caught and dealt with under the law

each site that is set up is a duplicate of all the previous

so currently lawfulbank.com is administered by 3 people , another mirror will be set up with the same data and will be monitored by 1 person from the first site and 2 new trustworthy people , they in turn will set up another site and again new people will administer the site , this will come from all groups such as TPUC, FMOTL, WFS , UK COLUMN , FREEDOMREBELS etc etc

there will be a lot of duplicates as it is likely that people will try to destroy sites as we make an impact and start to discredit the system as it will be removing their power over us .

The system is not controlled by anyone other than its members , and each branch will have further scrutiny to ensure everything is being conducted in accordance with common law

Once Roger releases his update from the presentation concerning the bank i will post it here so there is a fuller explanation of what is happening and explained in more detail

i encourage you to join in as the faster we build the numbers the faster we take back our liberties

there will be a £10 account set up fee and a charge for deposits and withdrawals of £1 + 0.25% this will make up for the no interest loans and the payback each year from profit to customers

If you have large cash account you can loan your cash to other customers and earn 10% interest , thats better than any bank

I am working with Roger Hayes and Others to get this out and around as fast as possible .

And whats more in the new system , no Tax, no Vat etc etc , more of your money will be yours

Also off my own back i urge you to join the British Constitution group here and support the work it is doing to bring all the different groups together . The site charges a membership fee the cheapest being £1 per month . Please support the BCG as they are working to bring all this and all groups together under the lawful rebellion umbrella . Leaflets , flyers banners etc cost money and without your money none of this can happen and move forward .

if your already part of 1 group then join up anyway and be a part of more to come , let 2011 be the year we are free

http://www.thebcgroup.org.uk/civicrm/co ... set=1&id=1

**Please note Roger has not asked me to do this i am doing this because i believe everyone on these forums wants the same thing but if we sit and just observe we only add to the problem and do nothing to stop our own incarceration ***

I dont know where to start with this???

how are they going to get their money back after they have lent it out?
After all money is just an illusion and the banks don't actually give you anything of value (freeman logic), and as such you are not actually lawfully obliged to pay it back. ;)

[Horatius]

how are they going to get their money back after they have lent it out?
After all money is just an illusion and the banks don't actually give you anything of value (freeman logic), and as such you are not actually lawfully obliged to pay it back. ;)



Well, they did say that the 1 million people would each be giving £100. I can only assume they'll be working with cold hard cash only, none of that electronic funds stuff. So the bank will have a Giant Cube of Cash to work with....As the borrowers receive money, and pay back their loans, the Cube of Cash will just shrink and grow in size.

Of course, what they forget is that this "£100 each" plan would only let them finance 400 mortgages of £250,000 each. Who decides who gets the loans?

[jargon buster]

there will be a £10 account set up fee and a charge for deposits and withdrawals of £1 + 0.25% this will make up for the no interest loans and the payback each year from profit to customers

Errr...who gets this money?
It is simply chipping away at the pile of cash they have, they will have to take that fee from the persons account every time they deposit or withdraw.

[Captain_Swoop]

Those 3 'trustworthy' Administrators I suppose.

it reads like one of those MLM Scams.

[jargon buster]

it reads like one of those MLM Scams.
taken from the lawful bank webpage
As you join in send a link to everyone you know and get them to join in too

Nah...... surely not.

[geni]

Well technicaly it looks like an extremely clumsy version of a building society.

[JLord]

Everything done to full rules of law (Common law) if you do wrong you will be caught and dealt with under the law

Dealt with under the law... If they can provide a true notarized copy of my wet ink signature under seal, then I may consent (on behalf of my person) to the jurisdiction of their "law" as long their judge can prove his oath to me and says in honour throughout the proceedings.

[jargon buster]

I still cant get an answer as to what this "law" actually is.

After all the statutes are gone they say they are left with "the law" which we are all bound by, unfortunately no one knows what it is. :confused:

[ComfySlippers]

Update on how the LAWFUL BANK will operate
http://www.tpuc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=31292&start=20
;)

Million members?
Mortgages?!?

Oh please. Such a paranoid fantasy land they live in. There is a reason why none of these FOTLers can get a real mortgage, getting them to fall for this toy bank scam is just cruel.


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

[Grassy Knowlington]

Update on how the LAWFUL BANK will operate
http://www.tpuc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=31292&start=20


I dont know where to start with this???

how are they going to get their money back after they have lent it out?
After all money is just an illusion and the banks don't actually give you anything of value (freeman logic), and as such you are not actually lawfully obliged to pay it back. ;)

I wonder if they realise they'll be operating a fractional reserve system just like real banks (or maybe the reserve is set at 0%, but that's ok, members will just send in more money).

Seems to me this is all about giving the faithful the illusion of change, control and real power (We can do it! We can do it! Let's arrest another Judge!) but the challenges and practicalities will no doubt kill the idea and that will be all down, of course, to the corrupt System rather than the absurdness of trying to reinvent the wheel.

Mind you, if some people actually send money in and give it to the local 'manager' then how long before there is civil war (under Common Law rules of course) amongst the followers when money isn't returned or has been 'subjected to charges'?

And what respectable firm of auditors will touch this if it's outside the taxation system?

&, no interest to be charged? Go to your local Islamic bank if you don't want to pay interest.

[Grassy Knowlington]

Million members?
Mortgages?!?

Oh please. Such a paranoid fantasy land they live in. There is a reason why none of these FOTLers can get a real mortgage, getting them to fall for this toy bank scam is just cruel.


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

Do you think they'll be an application form for a loan, references to be followed up:D

[Brian1709]

Do you think they'll be an application form for a loan, references to be followed up:D


Of course there will. Freemen love forms. Probably with lots of wet ink signatures and on Robin Egg Blue paper.

[ComfySlippers]

Unfortunately you can't just call yourself a bank, or even a credit union, in the UK unless you agree with minor inconveniences such as... The Law.

FOTL-Woo is not The Law.

Everything that the "bank" would be legally required to do in order to operate would be against FOTL-Land principles.

ETA:
Everything done to full rules of law (Common law) if you do wrong you will be caught and dealt with under the law

That's not how the real world operates.
Solicitors, Surveyors, Valuers, the FSA, real banks would all laugh at The Bank of FOTL

[Grassy Knowlington]

Well technicaly it looks like an extremely clumsy version of a building society.

Yes, but in this case it appears you can borrow a large sum (£250,000) pay a 10% 'set-up' fee then lend this to other members at 10% interest that must be per annum since it's 'better than a bank'.

Sounds excellent!

Of course, being FMOTL the loan will not be secured on your dwelling, surely?

I wonder if anyone there has actually worked through some figures and 'what-ifs'? Nah, all that matters is that's it's all about the common people rising up to take control....

[Horatius]

I wonder if they realise they'll be operating a fractional reserve system just like real banks (or maybe the reserve is set at 0%, but that's ok, members will just send in more money).



I don't think they've even thought about what reserves are, or should be. They picture a giant Cube of Cash sitting in the bank, ready to be loaned out. None of this "accounting" funny business needed!

I expect that will last right up until guy #401 wants to buy a house...


Seems to me this is all about giving the faithful the illusion of change, control and real power (We can do it! We can do it! Let's arrest another Judge!) but the challenges and practicalities will no doubt kill the idea and that will be all down, of course, to the corrupt System rather than the absurdness of trying to reinvent the wheel.


I take it as someone deciding to go for the big con this time, not just the petty ante stuff.

[ComfySlippers]

I take it as someone deciding to go for the big con this time, not just the petty ante stuff.

Con / April Fool's joke / Stupidity ...

Whichever it is one thing is guaranteed. It will never happen.

You simply can not just decide you are a bank, building society or credit union.
To be any of those things you need to be registered with the FSA in the UK.
List of Banks in the UK (http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/list_banks/2011/feb11.pdf)
There is not the remotest possibly of that ever happening.

Mortgages and property ownership is a legal minefield. Most people don't see the minefield because behind the scenes Solicitors take care of the legal aspects.
FOTLs don't like solictors because they deal with that pesky Law thing.

Who is responsible to repay this £250,000 mortgage? After 20 years who owns the house? .. A real person? Their strawman? their legal entity? their strawman-corporation?
...and who is this mythical FOTL who can afford a £250,000 mortgage anyway? Most have a record of not being able to pay for much in life.

To open a bank account, and thus be eligible to apply for a mortgage, you will have to supply proof of identity. That's how real banks work.
Birth Certificate? nope they don't believe in them. Passport? nope they don't believe in them, Driving License? Nope they don't believe in them.
Piece of blue egg-box with "John of the Family Nob" scrawled on?
...Yup, that'll do nicely Sir.

Asking people to send in £100 is criminal.
Sending in £100 is sheer stupidity.

[Horatius]

Asking people to send in £100 is criminal.
Sending in £100 is sheer stupidity.




And when exactly have either of these points stopped a Fotler from doing anything?

:D

[gtm]

Update on how the LAWFUL BANK will operate
http://www.tpuc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=31292&start=20


I dont know where to start with this???
how are they going to get their money back after they have lent it out?
After all money is just an illusion and the banks don't actually give you anything of value (freeman logic), and as such you are not actually lawfully obliged to pay it back. ;)

How about with the FSA & the OFT? This 'Bank' will need to be regulated by both agencies & won't touch these jokers with a 10 foot barge pole. 'Arris is fantasising again. There's more chance of a squadron of pigs doing loop the loops above Buckingham Palace on the 18th sunday of the month than the Lawful Bank ever opening it's doors for customers.

[Tolls]

Yes, but in this case it appears you can borrow a large sum (£250,000) pay a 10% 'set-up' fee then lend this to other members at 10% interest that must be per annum since it's 'better than a bank'.


That was the first thing that leapt out at me.
I realise this isn't a surprise, but they really, really haven't thought htis through.

[Grassy Knowlington]

....
I realise this isn't a surprise, but they really, really haven't thought htis through.

It probably doesn't matter. Publish some 'rules' (is that the right term for a FMOTLer?) that appear superficially fair or at least attractive to the punters, get the money rolling in from honest folk who really want to do something better for society and doing anything is better is surely better than doing nothing like the sheeple (and it's only £100), then later say; "errr, sorry everyone. We'll have to alter the rules a bit....I'm afraid the rates of return won't be quite as good and it'll be more expensive to 'borrow'...our 'overheads' [aka, one hopes not, preferred loans for the scheme originators] are much higher because we've not had enough income...send more money....".

That's assuming, of course, that all the requirements of FSA etc. are ignored. But, hey, these people can arrest Judges!

[ComfySlippers]

What does the FOTLer do when he finally has to admit he can't repay his loan to The Bank of FOTL?

Can he still go onto FOTL-Forums and say "i owez a big loan itz not my folt its the banks they lended me to much are there any magic words i can say to make the lown go away?"

Or will a new movement need to be created to fight the evil FOTL-Banks-Conspiracy, (which aren't legal banks as they operate under equine laws and all their managers are actually working for the horse-surgeons.. [ever wondered why a Doctor says his patient is 'Stable' !?] )

A child's piggy-bank offers more security.

[Captain_Swoop]

Or will a new movement need to be created to fight the evil FOTL-Banks-Conspiracy, (which aren't legal banks as they operate under equine laws and all their managers are actually working for the horse-surgeons.. [ever wondered why a Doctor says his patient is 'Stable' !?] )

:D

That's why they 'saddle' you with a debt

[Darat]

What does the FOTLer do when he finally has to admit he can't repay his loan to The Bank of FOTL?

Can he still go onto FOTL-Forums and say "i owez a big loan itz not my folt its the banks they lended me to much are there any magic words i can say to make the lown go away?"

Or will a new movement need to be created to fight the evil FOTL-Banks-Conspiracy, (which aren't legal banks as they operate under equine laws and all their managers are actually working for the horse-surgeons.. [ever wondered why a Doctor says his patient is 'Stable' !?] )

A child's piggy-bank offers more security.

My bet would be the first thing they will do is go round to the solicitors, get legal advice and try to sue the organisers based on the scheme being illegal!

[tsig]

And when exactly have either of these points stopped a Fotler from doing anything?

:D

Or any con man.

While it is common knowledge that Joseph Smith founded the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, few know of his attempt to found a bank in Kirtland, Ohio. This important event in Mormon history was reportedly done because of a revelation that Joseph Smith received. The following excerpt is from Mormonism - Shadow or Reality? page 531:

Warren Parrish, who had been an officer in the bank and had apostatized from the Church, made this statement: "I have listened to him [i.e. Smith] with feelings of no ordinary kind, when he declared that the AUDIBLE VOICE OF GOD, INSTRUCTED HIM TO ESTABLISH A BANKING-ANTI BANKING INSTITUTION, who like Aaron's rod SHALL SWALLOW UP ALL OTHER BANKS (the Bank of Monroe excepted,) and grow and flourish and spread from the rivers to the ends of the earth, and survive when all others should be laid in ruins." (Painesville Republican, February 22, 1838, as quoted in Conflict at Kirtland, page 297)

Wilford Woodruff, who remained true to the Church and became the fourth President, confirmed the fact that Joseph Smith claimed to have a revelation concerning the bank. Under the date of January 6, 1837, he recorded the following in his journal: "I also herd [sic] President Joseph Smith, jr., declare in the presence of F. Williams, D. Whitmer, S. Smith, W. Parrish, and others in the Deposit office that HE HAD RECEIVED THAT MORNING THE WORD OF THE LORD UPON THE SUBJECT OF THE KIRTLAND SAFETY SOCIETY. He was alone in a room by himself and he had not only [heard] the voice of the Spirit upon the Subject but even an AUDIBLE VOICE. He did not tell us at that time what the Lord said upon the subject but remarked that if we would give heed to the commandments the Lord had given this morning all would be well." ("Wilford Woodruff's Journal," January 6, 1837, as quoted in Conflict at Kirtland, page 296)



http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/josephsmithsbank.htm

[solzhenitsyn]

:D

That's why they 'saddle' you with a debt

Or why they demand that you 'pony' up the cash when the loan is due.

It's clearly all about the 'buck'(ing broncos).

I wonder if that is why they always refer to the King as 'sire' (which means "father of a horse" apparently)?

I think we're really on to something here.

[Horatius]

I think we're really on to something here.



The scary part is, it makes at least as much sense as the "admiralty" nonsense they really spew.


And on that note, you "charge" things to your credit cards, and the cavalry "charge" to destroy their enemies.


:boxedin:

[ComfySlippers]

If it were not so late I would set up a forum for this new movement :)

[Grassy Knowlington]

If it were not so late I would set up a forum for this new movement :)

In the mane I think it is a good idea but beware of people posting tails. It behooves us all to ensure there are no neigh-sayers either.

[Brian1709]

I suppose this is why all loan applicants have to be vetted.

[Horatius]

In the mane I think it is a good idea but beware of people posting tails. It behooves us all to ensure there are no neigh-sayers either.



You know, it's this kind of shrill mockery that tells us we're on the right (horse) track!

[Darat]

I will hold you lot responsible for this meme if we see it appearing on FOTL forums, I think it's time to rein in the silliness before we all come to regret it!

[gtm]

I will hold you lot responsible for this meme if we see it appearing on FOTL forums, I think it's time to rein in the silliness before we all come to regret it!

Ahem - I checked the forum rules (not that I 'consent' to them anyway :D) & can find no prohibition on advancing the 'state of the art' regarding FMOTL legal theory.

You'll be receiving my NOUICOR by return. Do you want it on robin egg blue paper signed in blood or will the more traditional version be sufficient?

[Horatius]

I will hold you lot responsible for this meme if we see it appearing on FOTL forums, I think it's time to rein in the silliness before we all come to regret it!



Look on the bright side; at least now, you'll know the answer to the question, "Where did they find this horse *****?"

[Grassy Knowlington]

Look on the bright side; at least now, you'll know the answer to the question, "Where did they find this horse *****?"

Some people will bridle at and want to muzzle that sort of remark.

But I would tug my forelock in deference to a greater mind than mine.

Although a Gallop poll may be in order to determine.

[Can we stop now?]

[Captain_Swoop]

I think they will bridle at the mockery if we stirrup trouble.

(is that enough now?)

[Grassy Knowlington]

I think they will bridle at the mockery if we stirrup trouble.

Or even Stifle debate.

[TjW]

I will hold you lot responsible for this meme if we see it appearing on FOTL forums, I think it's time to rein in the silliness before we all come to regret it!

While I understand you have a lot of pull with the powers that be, don't be sulky.

[TSR]

.
Don't hobble the creativity. You don't want to be saddled with that. We'd just take the bit in our teeth, and you'd have to tackle that...
.

[tsig]

While I understand you have a lot of pull with the powers that be, don't be sulky.


You're just tying to curry favor with the boss. Could be you're being groomed for bigger things? What would your mudder say?

[TjW]

In the mane she's a neigh-sayer, but since she's been a little horse lately, she'd probably tell the FOTLers to pony up.

[tsig]

In the mane she's a neigh-sayer, but since she's been a little horse lately, she'd probably tell the FOTLers to pony up.

You'll never get them in the paddock.

[Grassy Knowlington]

You'll never get them in the paddock.

This horseplay needs to stop at once, but I fear it's a case of bolting the stable door after the FMOTL horse has fled with the money.

[BobHaulk]

It's to late, Menard all ready has a pony tail and we all know what's under a pony tail.

[Grassy Knowlington]

Anyone aware of an update to Mr Roger Haye's refusal to pay Council Tax apart from him being declared bankrupt?

[ComfySlippers]

The only addition I learned was his reason for not showing up at his bankruptcy trial.
ie, he was busy charging people £10 a head to learn how to not have to pay Council Tax.

Other than that... nothing.

[jargon buster]

I suspect they will let his failure slip away and hope its un-noticed.
This one is still MAIN news on TPUC after it was de-bunked on their own forums.
the thread has been taken off topic now and is concentrating on another issue

http://tpuc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=6490&sid=38a4352b0d66e587d210fd1f0c9249a1

[jargon buster]

A passage from John Harris book available in chapters via his site
http://www.tpuc.org/node/1511
I quote
As Akhen’s robes softly hit the floor the servant girl gently spoke again.
“If it pleases my prince, may you turn around?”
This time Akhen didn’t even gesture and complied with what he was being asked to do without hesitation. He was met with a most arousing sight and his body did not fail to react. Akhen felt a little embarrassment - for the boy of 13 had never in his short life been in a situation like this – and started to blush a little. As he turned to face the beautiful sight behind him, another gentle voice spoke.
“Do your eyes please you, my prince?” enquired the now naked servant girl.
Akhen could not speak but just grinned from ear to ear. This 13 year old boy was on cloud nine as excitement raged through his veins.
Again the servant girl spoke. “If it pleases my prince, may you step into the bath?”
Akhen again complied and stepped into the warm water, followed by the now naked four beautiful servant girls - and this was only the start.
:jaw-dropp
What is it with this obsession with freeman and underage sex?

[Grassy Knowlington]

A passage from John Harris book available in chapters via his site
http://www.tpuc.org/node/1511
I quote

:jaw-dropp
What is it with this obsession with freeman and underage sex?

Perhaps it is an autobiographical work based on a past life, or just auto something.

I do hope that the new Freeman Bank will encourage exciting new writers by providing sponsorship, the amount of the grant could, perhaps, be proportional to how many years the age of the characters engaged in rumpy-pumpy is below the current age of consent.

[ComfySlippers]

Perhaps it is an autobiographical work based on a past life, or just auto something.

I do hope that the new Freeman Bank will encourage exciting new writers by providing sponsorship, the amount of the grant could, perhaps, be proportional to how many years the age of the characters engaged in rumpy-pumpy is below the current age of consent.

He said "RumpyPumpy" !

I approve.

ETA: Second thoughts; is RumpyPumpy's true meaning "The introduction of alcohol into a perfectly round horse's rectum" ? Just asking because I have a legal dictionary from 452BC that suggests so.
_____
Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

[Grassy Knowlington]

He said "RumpyPumpy" !

I approve.

ETA: Second thoughts; is RumpyPumpy's true meaning "The introduction of alcohol into a perfectly round horse's rectum" ? Just asking because I have a legal dictionary from 452BC that suggests so.
_____
Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

Re RumpyPumpy. In that case I shall be very careful using this term in the future; unless I get to know a horse with a ..... and a penchant for....and even then I am not convinced of the merit or wisdom of such an act. I mean, it could backfire.

However, because this predates (and therefore must be superior to) the Magna Carta then are there some aspects of Common Law we and the FMOTL haven't been told?

[Grassy Knowlington]

I suspect they will let his failure slip away and hope its un-noticed.
This one is still MAIN news on TPUC after it was de-bunked on their own forums.
the thread has been taken off topic now and is concentrating on another issue

http://tpuc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=6490&sid=38a4352b0d66e587d210fd1f0c9249a1

No update from 'Dave of the Family xxxxxx' who, at 6th Mar 2011, was expecting the Bailiffs within days?

[ComfySlippers]

are there some aspects of Common Law we and the FMOTL haven't been told?

There are many things we are not told. Super secret things.
Things so secret that even the KGB know not of them.
The only way to acquire the secret knowledge is by enrolling at The University of YouTube.

[ComfySlippers]

No update from 'Dave of the Family xxxxxx' who, at 6th Mar 2011, was expecting the Bailiffs within days?

He can't update because the Bailiffs seized his PC.

(Disclaimer: The above might not be true)

[jargon buster]

I would like to add this mail from Ickes in case it gets removed
http://forum.davidicke.com/showpost.php?p=1059829678&postcount=1
UCA is Ucadia
I am concerned with the lack of understanding of the covenants and charters that the followers of Ucadia have demonstrated. The following is a thread that I started at the U of U forum to demonstrate that when you send in an EDP you do not claim ownership of your person, you merely transfer the title from the Roman system to the Ucadia system. The covenants of Ucadia clearly state that only the Ucadia society can "own" property.

I have posted 2 threads at the UofU forum and both have been closed and my account disactivated for simply offering my interpretations of the Ucadia model. The David Icke forum has also chosen to close my thread "Ucadia, EDP Deception", for no apparent reason. I do not use profanity and all my points are sourced.

Frank has, on several occasions, deliberately altered certain quotes that I have referred to and subsequently accused me of mis-quoting his writings. I still have the originals that I printed from his websites and can confirm his deceptive maneuvers. I will try to get them scanned and posted in the future.

The following quotes are taken from the Covenant of One Heaven, Globe Union Charter and the Canons of Ecclesiastical Law.

11.5 "Unique Collective Awareness is the new name of the Divine Creator No higher name, nor force may be defined than the Unique Collective Awareness, the Divine Creator. When we write or speak of the Divine Creator, it is the Unique Collective Awareness of which we speak and write."

11.7 "Unique Collective Awareness and One Heaven Unique Collective Awareness is One Heaven. One Heaven is collective awareness. They are one and the same as this document."

11.2 "The structure of Unique Collective Awareness This Covenant recognizes the structure of Unique Collective Awareness as defined by the six (6) sacred patents of UCADIA"

25.1 "Unique Collective Awareness means the unique collection of all things" and represents a spiritual and legal presence, a structure of knowledge and a language of pure symbolic semantic meaning. UCADIA is the founding energy upon which these words are based."

25.1 UCADIA stands for Unique Collective Awareness of DIA.

The preceding quotes clearly show that the word Ucadia means the Unique Collective Awaeness, UCA......of DIA. The definition of Unique Collective Awareness and Ucadia are virtually identical. Ucadia is the founding energy upon which UCA is based and UCA is defined by the Ucadia patents. The name Ucadia is derived from Unique Collective Awareness.

When we speak of Divine Creator, it is the UCA of which we speak and write, and UCA is One Heaven, is Ucadia is the Covenant of One Heaven.

And if you still have any doubts....

Canon 2111 "Unique Collective Awareness, also known as UCA is equivalent to the Absolute, the ALL, the IS, the one, the Divine Creator and UCADIA. Therefore, there is no higher god, nor deity nor spiritual form of any kind than Unique Collective Awareness"

Therefore, UCA = Divine Creator = Ucadia = One Heaven = Covenant of One Heaven


32.2 "An Owner is a Person who holds the rightful claim to a Form or title to Property....the Divine Creator, also known as Unique Collective Awareness, is the only true “owner” of objects and concept"

Therefore, only the society of Ucadia can own property. When you send in an EDP you do not claim ownership of your corporate entity, you merely just transfer the title from the Roman system to the Ucadia society.

When you read the covenants and charters of the Ucadia society you will quickly realize that they are advocating a world government, world currency, world regulatory body for every aspect of your life.

101.6 Trade Code of Rights "it shall be a requirement for all men, women, corporations and other entities associated with Trade and the Society to demonstrate a regular written and recited understanding and acknowledgment of these rights. As the oath of rights shall represent not only the summary of all unique matters of law but an easy device to learn, any argument based on essential ignorance of the law regarding Trade by a man, woman or corporation associated with the Trade shall not be permitted."

Regular written and recited understanding and acknowledgment of these rights!!?? What are we supposed to do, go down to the legislative building once a year to recite an oath to the Ucadia society? I am not even required to do this now under our present dictatorship.

Frank is just like a politician who can convince the ignorant, who do not read, yet alone understand the legislations and statutes, with deception. Just like Bush who told us that the patriot act was to secure the homeland and our freedoms, yet the legislation reads entirely different, Frank tells us that joining the Ucadia society will free you from bondage, but if you read the covenants, it tells a very different story.

Do not be fooled by Frank's words, hold him instead to his writings. Legislation is written in Legalese, a language specially contrived to complicate and deceive. Laws are simple. If it is complicated and hard to understand for most, it is easily used to manipulate and deceive most.

Ninz

It may be that Frank O Collins needs to be added to the list of guru conmen

[jargon buster]

A new guru who doesnt practice what they preach has surfaced.
jackieg from Ickes and WFS is someone who tells people he has a remedy to discharge your mortgage its 5 letters that never fail, although they have not yet succeeded.
jackie tells people to try this and provides the letters but has never had a mortgage himself :confused:
here he is making an arse of himself over on WFS in a discussion about all human beings being corporations in law and all caps means you are legally dead???

http://forum.worldfreemansociety.org/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=9735

[TjW]

A new guru who doesnt practice what they preach has surfaced.
jackieg from Ickes and WFS is someone who tells people he has a remedy to discharge your mortgage its 5 letters that never fail, although they have not yet succeeded.


Pay up?

[Grassy Knowlington]

Anyone aware of an update to Mr Roger Haye's refusal to pay Council Tax apart from him being declared bankrupt?

Rumpy Bumpy.

News anyone?

[BobHaulk]

Rumpy Bumpy.

News anyone?

If you get made bankrupt in the UK then council tax is taken into consideration so he will not have to pay it. Success.

[Aitch]

However, next year they will demand the lot up front. Or make him sign a Direct Debit form to pay monthly.

Plus, being made bankrupt means serious trouble getting loans, credit and so on. He's going to have to pay cash up front from now on. Or go without.

[Grassy Knowlington]

If you get made bankrupt in the UK then council tax is taken into consideration so he will not have to pay it. Success.

It's my (limited) understanding that once a bankruptcy petition is granted the Receiver then takes over the person's financial affairs; this doesn't necessarily mean there is no money to settle the debt (plus the added costs).

[jargon buster]

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/ManagingDebt/Bankruptcy/DG_187323

thats what happens in the UK
Basically they just upset his life for him, Roger Hayes is not short of a bob or two, but now his involvement in business will be affected a great deal as a result of his foolishness.
http://www.wirralglobe.co.uk/news/8924047.Bankrupt__Wirral_businessman_who_refused_t o_pay_council_tax/

[jargon buster]

ceylon the half wit from getoutofdebtfree.org has some interesting advice on how to stop paying for water

http://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=29029
first you have to write a letter to the energy minister saying as i understand it anyone can have there own meters fitted is this correct i give you 10 days to respond when they dont respond send an estoppel as he has then agreed with you, then get your own meter fitted either get the debt collector to remove there property or send them a notice telling them you are leaving the contract and give them 10 days to come and remove there property or it wil be classed as abandond and will be dealt with as i see fit. im sure you can figure the rest.

Hopefully people can "figure the rest"and wont take his advice.

[ComfySlippers]

From Mr Ray St Claire's website:

"There were chaotic scenes as around 600 activists from the British Constitution Group massed around Birkenhead county court ...



Chatlog from TPUC (http://www.ahoynoob.net/?action=show_thread&sectionid=2&threadid=1208) with Mr Beaver / St.Clair sometime after the event.
(Bad language is his)



[11:02:17] Angelmoon: Hi
Hi i would like to thank the lads at the North East Truth for having the balls to address the issue why did Gary BeaverAKA Ray St Caire take over the lead in the court at Birkenhead last monday and the issue with the BNP being prominant players ,i was contacted by Garry after the show and i would like to show his threating words with you all so you will be aware of the kind of coward he is................................
[00:14:32] Angelmoon: hi ray
[00:14:52] Angelmoon: i am angela from the north east truth
[00:15:18] Angelmoon: do you wish to join our convo
[00:15:43] Ray St.Clair: No ... not really ... but I do want you to give me an explanation as to why you, were calling me a con man on TNS radio today

I recorded the show.
[00:16:19] Angelmoon: it is all over the net you are
[00:16:42] Ray St.Clair: Oh right ... that gives you justification to speak about me in public does it.
[00:17:33] Angelmoon: gary we only want the truth
[00:18:03] Ray St.Clair: OK ... as you know I eun a successful web dsign and marketing company. I am going to set up a load of sites and youtube videos abotu you three - gain a similar online follwing to mine (80,000) and put it around that you are all drug dealers and crooks.

You cheeky ****ers - Make sure I dont you any time soon - you dont even know me.
[00:18:13] Ray St.Clair: Watch your backs!
[00:18:27] Ray St.Clair: I have more friends than enemies.
[00:18:41] Ray St.Clair: If you want play with fire - I'll make sure you get burned!
[00:19:11] Ray St.Clair: I have it on good authorrity you are all BNP and EDL members masquerading as freemen to infiltrate the movement.
[00:19:29] Ray St.Clair: At least thats whats going out about NET from tomorrow ... don't worry - your names will be mentioned.
[00:22:19] Ray St.Clair: Not so loudmouthed are you ... your bunch of northern ********* ... make sure you introduce yourselves when you next see me.
[00:22:24] Angelmoon: we deal will love Ray x x
[00:26:22] Ray St.Clair: your a ****in hypocrite ... you deal with love ... **** right off - if you did then why did you say what you said. or do yoyu always shoot first and ask questions later.

You don't even ****in know me you hyprocite!

Well, I am gonna show you some love .. I have an 80,000 following ini this movement and NET and You three in particular are going to be right in the daily focus of that 80,000 following for at least the next few months.

I am going to let you feel how it is to be accused by people who read something on a webiste and then go mouthing off to others about it without talking to those concerned

I will find out where you live and what you look like and all this is going online with some pretty damning information thats hitting my desk ... right about now ... ooooh there it is

**** ... you are not involved with that lot are you HMMM I'd better warn everyone that you can't be trusted as you work for the government ... at least thats what I am reading on a website so it must be true! ... musn't it!
[00:31:28] Ray St.Clair: Anyway - wasted enough time with you ... I'll send you the links!
[00:33:08] Angelmoon: ray aka garry aka mick goodnight and say sovererign
[01:57:54] Angelmoon: you are so wrong Gary what you say about the ppl in the north east

[slowsmile]

Links to a veritable "who's who of woo" in Britain can be found here;

http://kentfreedommovement.ning.com/

The Kent Freedom movement are like many groups over here, into a mix of freeman lite (they all seem to subscribe to "lawful rebellion" - ie not paying bills - but no-one appears to have actually done anything about it), conspiracy theories, quasi religious mumbo jumbo, alternative anything.

[ComfySlippers]

That made my eyes bleed.

Couldn't help hearing Alan Partridge in my head;
”Bringing Truth to the lovely people of Kent... A-Haa"

Now that WOULD be a glorious tv interview!
Alan Partridge versus Kent. :)
(With #Robert Menard as umpire)

[Myron Proudfoot]

Links to a veritable "who's who of woo" in Britain can be found here;

http://kentfreedommovement.ning.com/

The Kent Freedom movement are like many groups over here, into a mix of freeman lite (they all seem to subscribe to "lawful rebellion" - ie not paying bills - but no-one appears to have actually done anything about it), conspiracy theories, quasi religious mumbo jumbo, alternative anything.

I saw a poster on that board named "Jargon Buster." Is that our Jargon Buster??

[slowsmile]

I saw a poster on that board named "Jargon Buster." Is that our Jargon Buster??

Certainly don't think so as the JB on KFM is an advocate for woo, like on this thread;

http://kentfreedommovement.ning.com/forum/topics/birth-certificate-paying-the-utillity-bills

[Mongrel]

Certainly don't think so as the JB on KFM is an advocate for woo, like on this thread;

http://kentfreedommovement.ning.com/forum/topics/birth-certificate-paying-the-utillity-bills

I read that with my cynical\sarcastic voice and reckon it's not advocating ;)

[deeper]

If anyone can watch a Harris video and believes that he knows what he is talking about is beyond help, the guy cant even string a sentence together.

I met someone today through work, who told me to watch "It's an illusion (http://www.tpuc.org/node/558)", it was only when he mentioned John Harris that I realised what he was on about. I'm only vaguely aware of Harris myself but now feel compelled to watch the video (my brain is trying to escape my skull at the thought of it). So what's the John Harris angle, anyone know what does he get out of it and how it differs from the Menard way?

To be honest I suspect I'm wasting my time because as you say JB, he's too far gone. I probed him briefly on any other conspiracy beliefs he might have, in short, the media is lying to us but he has has been finding out "what's really going on": 9/11 was "definately" as inside-job, he's not a holocaust denier (and didn't seem to be aware of holocaust denial) but thinks the Britain and the U.S.A. backed Hitler's Nazis and Britain still controls the U.S. (something about all but two of the presidents being related to the Queen of England, which I've seen before in CT vids but don't know much about). He also had something about "paleontology", god knows where that's going but I didn't have the time or the will to quiz him about that one, maybe next time.

His reaction was funny when I mentioned JREF, the MDC is dodgy or somesuch, it was on TV, plus he displayed a general negative attitude towards the site ("is that the only place you get your information?" he asked). I don't think he's ever been here but has probably picked up on the bad press it gets on CT sites.


ETA: Looks like I forgot about the Freedom Movent and England thread (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=155358) I can see my questions being answered there.

I managed 39 mins of It's An Illusion in one sitting, pfff, I don't think it differs from Menardism very much, how unsurprisingly dissappointing, he even name checks him. I decided to have a break at the point where he says Social Services make a profit by stealing children. :confused::D

[jargon buster]

Harris has withdrawn some of the things he said and states the freeman stuff is nonsense.

If you can stomach any of the mans idiocy you can read his avoidance of any questions on a thread he started in order for people to ask him questions.

I have been on but got sick of him so just insulted him instead.
he now claims its designed to build evidence to give to the police (just like Menard :roll eyes:) what he fails to grasp is that he can ban me any time he likes, so he actually is encouraging and condoning the insults.

http://tpuc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=39651

it only gets entertaining around page 13. :rolleyes:

[deeper]

I've finished it now. It was painful. A difference I see between him and Menard is that Harris finishes his speach by stating he "will" find a way to Free himself, whereas Menard claims to have done it and will sell it to you for a price. It made me wonder why he was in the game, maybe he believed it at the time. Which would make sense if as you say,


Harris has withdrawn some of the things he said and states the freeman stuff is nonsense.

Cool, is this found in the thread you linked to? I'll have a look tomorrow.

[jargon buster]

http://tpuc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=27238

I don't know if John Harris posts in this thread, I can't stomach going through it, it's his wife who started the thread, probably sick of all his nonsense and a bit of revenge for his extra marital shenanigans.

[deeper]

I've just waded into the first 20 pages of that thread (http://tpuc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=39651&start=120) you linked to. You're right the first twelve pages are tedious, seemed more like an Agony Aunt column at points, I'm sure there was some guy in there asking for financial advise.

It's obvious that he no longer believes what he was peddling in It's An Illusion, but so far has just insinuated as much rather than coming out and saying sorry, I was wrong, I believed a load of bollocks and this is what was wrong with it. Look at this exchange, and to anyone about to read John's response, no you are not going mad, the first two paragraphs are complete gibberish (believe me, no matter how close to your monitor you get, it doesn't get any better).

JB, I'm going to assume you are "stephen".

These lines are music to the ears of the down trodden, the disenfranchised, the lonely and the gullible. I know a young single mother who is not paying her council tax simply because of the very lines. She believes the words of the very music you speak of.She is in court on Friday.


i myself went through the same as many thousands of us have. some of us need to experience this so it becomes real something we have seen at work and through that experience. i started to see a whole lot less because everything just didn't seem that complicated anymore and seems to have the same structure. some need to do this and others don't they do other things along the same sort of lines, just in different ways. my life is as individual as me and is like no others and nor is any like mine, hence, we need different experiences to realise from.

we are the ones who truly are responsible for everything and anything we do, we realise this through our experiences, i am sure of this as it certainly works within me. i have repeatedly had to see things that do not make common sense to realise what common sense is.

i most probably will be held to blame for this and i offer no defence, all i will say is i was meant to say what i did and do what i did because that is what happened and if it was not meant to be then something else would have happened, the same as i am ment to be writing this.

John x


It's like his belief in fate has absolved him of any responsibility but my main issue with him, is one you put to him in the post below,

John could do this by simply withdrawing his fictitious claims and statements of the past and his videos from youtube. people come to tpuc as a direct result of watching those videos, this is a fact that cannot be denied.



Until he does this you are going to get people being deceived long after Harris himself has moved on, like the guy who recommended the film to me.

I'm sure you're not going to spoil the ending for me, does he ever do the right thing and come clean?

[Stacey Grove]

deeper wrote:

Until he does this you are going to get people being deceived long after Harris himself has moved on, like the guy who told me recommended the film to me.

I'm sure you're not going to spoil the ending for me, does he ever do the right thing and come clean?

Harris refuses to take down the videos.
He says they serve a purpose, but will not divulge what that purpose is.

My own thoughts are he became a very minor z-list celebrity amongst the dead beats and began to enjoy his new found "fame". He even managed to attract a couple of groupies. Mrs Harris was none too impressed apparently. He then started writing his bookpamphlet it went to his head and now he believes he's some kind of Pharoh reincarnated, or something along those lines.
It's the same old story. He cannot bear to give up that bit of fame he experienced and those videos continue to supply it.

[deeper]

It's the same old story. He cannot bear to give up that bit of fame he experienced and those videos continue to supply it.

I think you are right, he did seem to enjoy working the crowd, and obviously likes the attention of others. He probably realised the path he was taking with It's An Illusion was a dead end because it was demonstrably false (but it's existence on the net serves a purpose for him). In that thread he seems to be attempting to broaden his appeal by offering an 'easy answer' but not really saying anything at all, and obviously hasn't anything worthwhile to say (or he would have said it), thus you end up with the gibberish I posted above.

In short, as wrong as It's An Illusion is, it's more compelling than his current material. :D

[jargon buster]

JB, I'm going to assume you are "stephen".
No, Im jargonbuster on there as well, stephen is a guy whos daughter got wrapped up in it and made herself ill and the people on that forum gave her a hard time when she signed up.

"Its an illusion" is the most ironically apt description of any video on youtube.

PS , No he never gives an answer to anything.
TBH I am not sure the person posting as John Harris on TPUC is actually John Harris from the videos, the guy in the videos is too thick to not slip up and answer something.

[slowsmile]

I don't know if anyone over here in Britain have come across this guy before -

Dave "Starbuck" Murphy.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLD1F1E92D92C83E62

His woo on "Stop Paying Your Utility Bills" seems fairly "new" (ie rehashed stuff uploaded to youtube by a new wannabee guru).

Anyway he's starting doing the rounds at the Kent Freedom Movement next week;

http://kentfreedommovement.ning.com/events/the-kfm-host-dave-starbuck-murphy-on-how-to-stop-paying-utility-b

One to keep an eye on perhaps.

[WhenDanSaysJump]

Oh, I've certainly encountered him.

Here he is applying the Freeman methods when stopped by the police, with exactly the level of success you'd expect.

Part 1 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cP8BGjkGAdg&list=UU-b7T1qnhUaCLClmrRg12YA&index=3&feature=plcp
Part 2 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec-euzvhj28&list=UU-b7T1qnhUaCLClmrRg12YA&index=2&feature=plcp
Part 3 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFE7qpFq-G4&list=UU-b7T1qnhUaCLClmrRg12YA&index=1&feature=plcp

[gtm]

Harris is seriously bad news. Aside from spouting the usual woo he has a modicum of 'charisma' which appeals to certain deluded / vulnerable people. He also likes his money & makes a pretty penny with his 'talks'. The fact he defended the loathsome 'Ray St Clair' is telling. Underneath the 'simple man on a voyage of discovery' he's just a cheap conman.

[Brian1709]

Oh, I've certainly encountered him.

Here he is applying the Freeman methods when stopped by the police, with exactly the level of success you'd expect.

Part 1 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cP8BGjkGAdg&list=UU-b7T1qnhUaCLClmrRg12YA&index=3&feature=plcp
Part 2 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec-euzvhj28&list=UU-b7T1qnhUaCLClmrRg12YA&index=2&feature=plcp
Part 3 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFE7qpFq-G4&list=UU-b7T1qnhUaCLClmrRg12YA&index=1&feature=plcp

I don't understand it. He had all the magic papers, said all the magic words. He even refused to stand under and they still took his personal conveyance. That can't be right.

[jargon buster]

The courts and the law are corrupt = freeman win.
Its perfect isn't it, yet they still have faith that their argument is legally sound in a legal system that is corrupt???


Go figure.

[Grassy Knowlington]

I don't know if anyone over here in Britain have come across this guy before -

Dave "Starbuck" Murphy.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLD1F1E92D92C83E62

His woo on "Stop Paying Your Utility Bills" seems fairly "new" (ie rehashed stuff uploaded to youtube by a new wannabee guru).

Anyway he's starting doing the rounds at the Kent Freedom Movement next week;

http://kentfreedommovement.ning.com/...ying-utility-b

One to keep an eye on perhaps.

He's been in Gloucester (UK, not MA) from what I hear, attending a monthly freeman get together on a Sunday in one of the city's pubs. Apparently the ladies love him.

[WhenDanSaysJump]

Man, he travels a lot. He's also been in Essex, Berkshire, and according to a seemingly defunct website of his for something called The Freeman League, he was at one point attempting to acquire land somewhere in Lincolnshire to set up a self-sustaining Freeman community. I wonder if the pending squishing of his "personal conveyance" is going to stymie his journeying.

From looking at the videos on his YouTube channel, he was also a contestant on The Crystal Maze, which to my mind is freaking awesome. Shame about the subsequent descent into woodom.

[tsig]

I don't understand it. He had all the magic papers, said all the magic words. He even refused to stand under and they still took his personal conveyance. That can't be right.


And they took him as well.