DQ posts John 3:16 on marquee

[edteach]

I took my family to get Ice Cream at the local DQ. I was very surprised to see the lighted marquee say John 3:16 Enough said posted below the DQ sign. I wrote to the HQ of DQ to complain and say I would not go back to DQ again and that I thought their store was for people of all religions and non religion not just Christians. I advise anyone here to spread the word and feel free to use my photo just put used by permission of Dogon. http://i51.tinypic.com/2pzhh20.jpg

[Sherman Bay]

How do we know you didn't Photoshop that just to make a troll thread?

[ehcks]

Someone's getting fired for this.

Is that prophetic enough for the million dollar challenge?

Well.. If it's real...

[Meadmaker]

Someone's getting fired for this.


Depends where he lives.

[fuelair]

If you can id the specific location and use something that we can trust is not photoshopped, I'm with you. But I have trouble just assuming a local branch of a national chain would pull something this dumb even in a red state.

Private shop with plenty of xtian customers, sure, but not a store with national hq.

[Fnord]

Such signs have been done to death - so often that I no longer notice until Mrs. Fnord draws my attention to it.

The Fundies should come up with something new.

[maddog]

How do we know you didn't Photoshop that just to make a troll thread?

This. Sorry edteach, your history here just isn't enough to take you at your word.

More evidence, please? Identify the location, time and date of the picture, at the bare minimum.

I'm not saying you're lying, just that I need more evidence to *fully* believe you.

[edteach]

The sign is from Andover Kansas on Central Road, the only DQ in the Small town just outside of Wichita. Call and ask, I bet they will admit to it. What would photoshoping a sign like this prove? It would do more to damage my atheist movement than to help. Lying does not advance atheism. I took it today 3/23 at about 7:30 pm. Its across from McDonolds.

[roger]

Warren Buffett, the owner, is agnostic. He's not hard to reach, reportedly.

email address here: http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/

[AdMan]

Warren Buffett, the owner, is agnostic. He's not hard to reach, reportedly.

email address here: http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/


Thanks--I own Berkshire Hathaway stock. I'm writing.

ETA: Email sent. Thanks, edteach. Hope you don't mind I forwarded the pic!

Dear Sirs,

As an owner of Berkshire Hathaway stock for over 11 years, I am writing to express my displeasure at a lighted marquee sign displayed by a Dairy Queen store recently. I am attaching a picture.

This sign was displayed at a DQ store on Central Road in Andover, Kansas, just outside of Wichita, and the picture was taken on 3/23/11. Although I didn't see the sign personally, I trust the person who took it.

As a non-believer, I disagree with and am offended by the sentiment conveyed in this sign. It is not only offensive to non-believers, but to anyone who does not hold Christian beliefs.

I will not be back to DQ until this type of thing stops happening and I know will not happen again, and, as an owner of Berkshire Hathaway, and therefore of DQ, I am expressing my deep disappointment and disagreement with this type of exhibition.

[maddog]

The sign is from Andover Kansas on Central Road, the only DQ in the Small town just outside of Wichita. Call and ask, I bet they will admit to it. What would photoshoping a sign like this prove? It would do more to damage my atheist movement than to help. Lying does not advance atheism. I took it today 3/23 at about 7:30 pm. Its across from McDonolds.


Thank you!

[Puppycow]

The sign is from Andover Kansas on Central Road, the only DQ in the Small town just outside of Wichita. Call and ask, I bet they will admit to it. What would photoshoping a sign like this prove? It would do more to damage my atheist movement than to help. Lying does not advance atheism. I took it today 3/23 at about 7:30 pm. Its across from McDonolds.

The electronic marquee must have been added recently as it doesn't appear on Google Street View (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=andover+kansas,+central+road&aq=&sll=37.719507,-97.139268&sspn=0.01935,0.027423&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=E+Central+Ave,+Andover,+Butler,+Kansas+67002&ll=37.694009,-97.136634&spn=0.000605,0.000857&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=37.694008,-97.136752&panoid=JEP_mp2OX6r7JGNNPuIiJA&cbp=12,312.95,,0,15.7). (Assuming I have the right Dairy Queen).
ETA: The trees and telephone poles in the background seem to match up with those in Google Street View. So it seems to be the correct location at least.

[jsfisher]

Is this particular Dairy Queen a company store, or is it a franchise?

[AdMan]

Is this particular Dairy Queen a company store, or is it a franchise?


I think most (all?) stores are franchises. Still, they can't just display anything they want under the DQ banner.

[FreshHat]

Sundae School?

[edteach]

the marquee is not a static sign, it rotates about 4 signs. Its one of those tron type signs. One was a BQ burger and I don't remember what the others were. If anyone lives in the area there is only one DQ on Central just west of Andover road in Andover. I can't tell you how often they change or how long it has been there. I usually don't go to DQ because I am diabetic, but we have family visiting and we walked down from my sub to get Ice Cream for my 4 yo nephew. Walking up my wife noticed that it flashed John 3:16 and we stopped to check to see if it was a sign for a church behind. The sign is only for the DQ and was advertising deals for DQ and then the religious sign. If anyone lives near do a drive by and take a photo to back me up. I can try to get a video to prove its real. Anyone please feel free to post this photo with my aproval. I took it with my phone and its my property to give rights to use.

[Trent Wray]

So is the idea to boycott that DQ so it won't make any religious statements and offend someone of a different religion? May I ask the OP what your religion is?

If you're an atheist, and the marquee had said, "The Boogeyman Cometh" would you feel as violated?

[iknownothing]

Well, I wouldn't be offended by it. It's a business, not a government institution. The people who run it can think & say whatever they want, and I can choose not to go there.

But, that "Enough Said" is kinda obnoxious somehow, and would probably keep me from going there.

[Björn Toulouse]

Maybe they were posting the time when the restroom would be available.

[Gawdzilla]

Living in St. Loser makes me think that this is entirely possible. It's even more likely to happen around MassiveConsumerismMas, of course.

[23_Tauri]

Not being an Xtian I had to look up John 3:16. Boooooooring! The Bible's full of hell, fire and damnation, you would've thought they could have picked something with a big more unrepetant omnipotent being va-va-vooom, no?

[edteach]

To the poster that asked, I am an Atheist. It does offend me in that its not the place or the forum to push religion. Not any belief system. It is a place to sell and consume a food product. What if it had a Koran scripture posted? I bet the Christian nut jobs would go ape crap over that one. They do not even want to let a Mosque be built to worship privately. I am sick of these stupid Christians deciding who can have a right to freedom of and from religion and who can't, then push their crazy brand of crap on everyone else that they would scream about if reversed. So personally yes I am boycotting DQ until I see some response to this lopsided hypocritical Christian BS.

[Resume]

So is the idea to boycott that DQ so it won't make any religious statements and offend someone of a different religion? May I ask the OP what your religion is?

If you're an atheist, and the marquee had said, "The Boogeyman Cometh" would you feel as violated?

Where and when did the OP use the word "violated?"

Edteach, you did the right thing by writing the HQ of DQ but don't be surprised with a less than satisfying result. In my neck of the woods there are several businesses with signs like this; they're free to put 'em up and I'm free not to patronize them.

[TragicMonkey]

Pretty tame. I like businesses to really go all out, like the Heart of Jesus Auto Repair Shop I saw in Georgia once. Mural of Jesus, twice life-size, covering one outside wall. The art was actually pretty good, definite Mexican influences there (although no jolly skeletons playing musical instruments, alas). "John 3:16" is something people write on posterboard at baseball games. Lame, lame, lame. A giant inflatable Virgin Mary on the roof, though, that's saying it!

[Aepervius]

I am a die hard atheist , and i don't care about christian putting sign on marquee on my local ice cream caffée. I don't think they have *ANY* effect beside self congratulatory propping up between christian. My question is , does it really disturb you that much ?

[Aepervius]

Pretty tame. I like businesses to really go all out, like the Heart of Jesus Auto Repair Shop I saw in Georgia once. Mural of Jesus, twice life-size, covering one outside wall. The art was actually pretty good, definite Mexican influences there (although no jolly skeletons playing musical instruments, alas). "John 3:16" is something people write on posterboard at baseball games. Lame, lame, lame. A giant inflatable Virgin Mary on the roof, though, that's saying it!

LAAAAME.

A giant inflatable Jesus on a Cross smiling, while at regular time blood or red liquid is spurt out of the wounds at the hand and foot, all the while having a tacky music now you are talking to me.

[TragicMonkey]

Also, it's a business. Sometimes, in some places, with some demographics, businesses might want to make it look like they are devoutly religious of some kind or another.

To cite a particularly amusing example, I live about two miles away from Pat Robertson's HQ complex. For all his public image and denunciations of the eeevil gay lifestyle choice, he sure has a lot of flamboyantly gay employees at his businesses. And his hotel staff doesn't bat an eye when same-sex couples get a room there. But then, Pat's not particularly religious himself. He makes his money from his surprisingly-varied business portfolio. But it suits his interests to put up a front.

[TragicMonkey]

LAAAAME.

A giant inflatable Jesus on a Cross smiling, while at regular time blood or red liquid is spurt out of the wounds at the hand and foot, all the while having a tacky music now you are talking to me.

No way, a giant inflatable Virgin Mary would rock. I picture her as being very like a Disney princess, ultra cartoony with huge glittering eyes and simpering expression.

Although, come to think of it, an anime-style Virgin Mary would be even cooler. Dressed in one of those sailor-suit girl school uniforms, armed with a huge sword, and riding on the shoulder of a giant mecha....you know, that would make me take another look at Christianity. Vampire Princess Virgin Mary has a lot going for it.

[Gawdzilla]

Why didn't they put up the part when Noah's daughters have incestuous relations with their pappa to make sure he had children. Children like his sons and daughters.

Wait a minute...

[Aepervius]

No way, a giant inflatable Virgin Mary would rock. I picture her as being very like a Disney princess, ultra cartoony with huge glittering eyes and simpering expression.

Although, come to think of it, an anime-style Virgin Mary would be even cooler. Dressed in one of those sailor-suit girl school uniforms, armed with a huge sword, and riding on the shoulder of a giant mecha....you know, that would make me take another look at Christianity. Vampire Princess Virgin Mary has a lot going for it.

I am sold, but only if she got big boobs.

[brodski]

I took it today 3/23 at about 7:30 pm. Its across from McDonolds.
It was actually about half an hour later than that (8.02) using your camera phone- at first glance it dosen't look like you have edited the photo. Of course you could have faked the exif info, but I'm not that paranoid. ;)

[JFrankA]

Well, I wouldn't be offended by it. It's a business, not a government institution. The people who run it can think & say whatever they want, and I can choose not to go there.

But, that "Enough Said" is kinda obnoxious somehow, and would probably keep me from going there.

I completely agree to this. This is exactly my reaction too. Actually, I wouldn't go there even without the "enough said". It is clear they don't want my business, nor am I welcome because I am an atheist so why bother going there and give that particular store my money?

[TragicMonkey]

I am sold, but only if she got big boobs.

Well, of course.

Episode 201: Having returned from the Ice Cream Galaxy, the Dairy Queen Miyuki faces off against Mecha Princess Virgin Mary in a contest of wills at the junior high school class election. Can giant mecha overcome lactose intolerance in the race for class treasurer? Meanwhile, Sakura and Jesus discover the amulet that powers the spaceship, but the robot catgirl attacks them. Mr Nobura is more than he appears.

[roger]

Sure, a business is free to advertise their beliefs. But, this business is not owned by this person. It is owned by Berkshire Hathaway and all the stockholders thereof. There's a big difference between Joe's Auto Body putting up a sign stating that all Jews and other non-christians will go to hell (which is basically what John 3:16 implies) and a multi-national company IBM doing it on their corporate website.

To be fair, this is a small DQ in a small town that is probably 80%+ Christian, so it is far closer to the former. It's rather unlikely that they will find out about this in Saudia Arabia, say, and end up boycotting DQ there. However, I doubt (I do not know) that DQ management or BH management (essentially Buffett) would want this, but who knows. Write a unheated letter and they will take care of it, if they care.

[Fnord]

Well, of course.

Episode 201: Having returned from the Ice Cream Galaxy, the Dairy Queen Miyuki faces off against Mecha Princess Virgin Mary in a contest of wills at the junior high school class election. Can giant mecha overcome lactose intolerance in the race for class treasurer? Meanwhile, Sakura and Jesus discover the amulet that powers the spaceship, but the robot catgirl attacks them. Mr Nobura is more than he appears.
Little do they know that an electrovore tentacle monster has secreted itself in the Mecha Princess's boudoir, waiting for the moment when Mary is most vulnerable and least likely to expect an assault...

[GrandMasterFox]

My question is , does it really disturb you that much ?
I know you didn't ask me, but I'll answer anyway.

I don't think this is something that should be sued for, but an email response like AdMan did is very welcomed indeed.

I believe in freedom of speech so I won't take them to court, but I do believe it is about time people start talking about how atheists have financial power as well.

If something offends the theists, they say they'll boycott the place and thus the store starts paying attention to them. If atheists don't do the same, there is a clear messege that regardless of what the store owner's personal beliefs are, they are better off pleasing the theists.

Sure, they have a right to place a sign, I have a right to shop elsewhere if I want to.

Why didn't they put up the part when Noah's daughters have incestuous relations with their pappa to make sure he had children. Children like his sons and daughters.

Wait a minute...
Cause that was Lot and not Noah?

[Gawdzilla]

Cause that was Lot and not Noah?

Beats me, I only read that book once, then tossed it. Some guy saw me toss and tried to give me hell about that. I tossed him.

[Disclord]

There used to be a Dairy Queen at Eldorado Square in Abq, NM, and the people who owned it put up religious signs inside and out - DQ finally pulled their franchise rights due to the complaints about all the wacked out signs and stuff. The owners changed the name and struggled along for about a year then finally closed. DQ, at least in the early 90's, didn't put up with that kind of stuff.

[roger]

This is probably a better route to contact DQ than writing Buffett:

http://www.dairyqueen.com/us-en/talk-to-dq/

I would use the "Contact Us" link, not the "store comment" link, as the latter is apparently just forwarded to the owner of that location.

[TragicMonkey]

Little do they know that an electrovore tentacle monster has secreted itself in the Mecha Princess's boudoir, waiting for the moment when Mary is most vulnerable and least likely to expect an assault...

Mary, being a trained Star Warrior from space, always expects assault. Her cyberninja reflexes would kick into action instantly. Any tentacloid foolish enough to penetrate her boudoir will regret it. No, to strike at the Mecha Princess, once must attack her more vulnerable friends like Bishounen Jesus, the temple maiden Sakura, the robot catgirl, the fox spirit Jiro, Girl Type Ranma, or Sailor Mercury.

You'd know this stuff if you'd paid attention in church!

[AdMan]

There used to be a Dairy Queen at Eldorado Square in Abq, NM, and the people who owned it put up religious signs inside and out - DQ finally pulled their franchise rights due to the complaints about all the wacked out signs and stuff. The owners changed the name and struggled along for about a year then finally closed. DQ, at least in the early 90's, didn't put up with that kind of stuff.


Good to know. I hope this is still the case.

[Beerina]

Can giant mecha overcome lactose intolerance in the race for class treasurer?

DQ used to have the "Big Q", a 32 oz Big Gulp-sized shake (or malt, your choice. I chose.) I don't have lactose intolerance, but it was so damned much dairy that it managed to railroad all the way through and have a significant amount make it unfettered to your large intestine, with all the attendant glorious, lactose-derived effects.

This was a...reproducible experiment.

[TragicMonkey]

DQ used to have the "Big Q", a 32 oz Big Gulp-sized shake (or malt, your choice. I chose.) I don't have lactose intolerance, but it was so damned much dairy that it managed to railroad all the way through and have a significant amount make it unfettered to your large intestine, with all the attendant glorious, lactose-derived effects.

This was a...reproducible experiment.

That is a lovely story. Thank you for sharing, and witnessing to the greater glory of the Mecha Princess. Now say forty "Hail Mecha Princess Mary"s and light a candle. A whole rack of candles, in fact. As many candles as you can find.

[gnome]

If I were religious, I would be even more offended by the use of scripture as commercial advertisement.

"Praise Jesus... and buy our ice cream. What Flavor Would Jesus Blizzard? (WFWJB)"

It's like those absolutely ginormous American flags at used car dealerships. "You can trust us, we're Patriots!! See that big flag, see how big it is? Look at it, it's REALLY BIG!"
"How reliable are your vehicles, are your salesmen honest?"
"Yessiree, a REALLY BIG FLAG!"

[Trent Wray]

Well, I wouldn't be offended by it. It's a business, not a government institution. The people who run it can think & say whatever they want, and I can choose not to go there.

But, that "Enough Said" is kinda obnoxious somehow, and would probably keep me from going there. It would have been even more obnoxious had they said "Nuff" ...

To the poster that asked, I am an Atheist. It does offend me in that its not the place or the forum to push religion. Not any belief system. It is a place to sell and consume a food product. What if it had a Koran scripture posted? I bet the Christian nut jobs would go ape crap over that one. They do not even want to let a Mosque be built to worship privately. I am sick of these stupid Christians deciding who can have a right to freedom of and from religion and who can't, then push their crazy brand of crap on everyone else that they would scream about if reversed. So personally yes I am boycotting DQ until I see some response to this lopsided hypocritical Christian BS. Do you view atheism as a religion?

I'm not saying your reaction is right or wrong ... nor am I saying my POV is right or wrong ...

But I don't understand why you're so upset. If you're of a different religion, I can understand that. But atheism isn't a religion, there are no gods, and John 3:16 therefore references nonsense. They could have put up there, "Repent or the Boogeymonster Cometh" and it would have been the same thing.

Furthermore, the people inside or probably thinking it anyway, regardless of whether or not it's up on the board. Xtianity is referenced on our money, in our schools, in the judicial system, everywhere pretty much at all times. It's nothing new to the USA. Yet, I'm assuming you still enjoy food and products from other establishments, using American money, etc and so forth, yet?

It's simply a matter of understanding that we live in a superstitious world full of nonsense, and the John 3:16 bit is nothing new or shocking. Like I said, I can understand why you'd boycott if you were of a different religion. But you're not, right?

Their blizzards are addicting :)

Where and when did the OP use the word "violated?" He didn't use the word violated, I did ... based on his reaction and speech I used the word to sum up how I viewed his general reaction.

I am a die hard atheist , and i don't care about christian putting sign on marquee on my local ice cream caffée. I don't think they have *ANY* effect beside self congratulatory propping up between christian. My question is , does it really disturb you that much ? This.

It pisses me off everytime I have to work on Sundays and Chik-Fil-A is closed, because I like their waffle fries and I have a lot of free coupons for them. So I have to buy my lunch instead of getting it for free. But I don't boycott them all the other days of the week though because they "observe the lords day" at my expense.

Likewise, I love me a good shwarma, even though the restaurant I get my shwarmas at are all kosher and there are Israeli flags up inside. Or what about the local Thai restaurant where pictures of the Buddha are up all over the place? How can I eat their coconut chicken soup !!!

I don't see why it honestly matters unless you are of another religion. It's everywhere all the time in other forms as well, and it's not going away anytime soon in the US. If you're just sick of Xtians pushing their agenda in an arrogant manner, I get that. But reclaiming a DQ in the name of atheism is like picking out a single weed in a field full of them. And if you're issue is again, with being fair to all religions ... I'm assuming you view your atheism as your religion?

[Rasmus]

I don't see why it honestly matters unless you are of another religion.

How would that made any difference?

To a non-Christian, the bible should have no more or less significance than to an atheist, right?

[jayh]

I am a die hard atheist , and i don't care about christian putting sign on marquee on my local ice cream caffée. I don't think they have *ANY* effect beside self congratulatory propping up between christian. My question is , does it really disturb you that much ?

I'm with you on this. Sure it's stupid and annoying but that's their right. Unlike a Jew or a Muslim, I don't have to worry about what my god would think if I go there.

[Crazycowbob]

I'm with Trent on this one, this isn't government, it's a business. And while I'm not sure what the terms are in regards to the franchise agreement regarding these matters, I doubt it was DQ that paid for that sign, it's most likely exempt, and the private property of the owner. If you choose to organize a boycott, and write to headquarters regarding the matter, that's your choice, and a perfectly reasonable one if you find it that offensive. Me, I could really care less. Seeing signs like that promoting things I'm against only remind me that I'm in a country where I can do the same.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Warren Buffett, the owner, is agnostic. He's not hard to reach, reportedly.

email address here: http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/

I'm going to Omaha at the end of April. I'll have a word with him. :)

[The Central Scrutinizer]

the marquee is not a static sign, it rotates about 4 signs. Its one of those tron type signs. One was a BQ burger and I don't remember what the others were. If anyone lives in the area there is only one DQ on Central just west of Andover road in Andover. I can't tell you how often they change or how long it has been there. I usually don't go to DQ because I am diabetic, but we have family visiting and we walked down from my sub to get Ice Cream for my 4 yo nephew. Walking up my wife noticed that it flashed John 3:16 and we stopped to check to see if it was a sign for a church behind. The sign is only for the DQ and was advertising deals for DQ and then the religious sign. If anyone lives near do a drive by and take a photo to back me up. I can try to get a video to prove its real. Anyone please feel free to post this photo with my aproval. I took it with my phone and its my property to give rights to use.

Aha!!! Caught you in a lie! Dairy Queen doesn't sell ice cream. :)

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Maybe they were posting the time when the restroom would be available.

:dl:

[Myriad]

the marquee... rotates about 4 signs. ...The sign is only for the DQ and was advertising deals for DQ and then the religious sign.


So, the sign was displaying three messages calculated to persuade you to exchange your hard-earned money for ridiculously unhealthy food, and one expressing one of the operator's religious beliefs.

I can see how it might be surprising, to receive an (arguably unintentional) slap in the face when you were expecting a fourth (unambiguously deliberate) poke in the eye instead. But it is really something to get upset over?

Respectfully,
Myriad

[Meadmaker]

John 3:16 is a really popular thing to post on signs and billboards and the like. Every time I see it, I want to hold up a sign that says Numbers 31:17-18.


Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

This is probably a better route to contact DQ than writing Buffett:

http://www.dairyqueen.com/us-en/talk-to-dq/

I would use the "Contact Us" link, not the "store comment" link, as the latter is apparently just forwarded to the owner of that location.

This.

Given that Buffett only has about 20 people at Berkshire HQ, and I imagine they get all sorts of email, probably 99% of it from nuts and/or people looking for a handout, I doubt you'll get a response. Even if you do, you'll likely be told to contact DQ directly, as Buffett has little to do with the day-to-day operations of his subsidiaries.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

What if the sign had read "Austin 3:16"? Would the OP be as upset?

[Psi Baba]

Hmmm, a Dairy Queen with religious signs and this:
Frequent Church Goers Frequently Fatter (http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/24/frequent-churchgoers-frequently-fatter/?iref=allsearch)

I see a correlation.

[AdMan]

This.

Given that Buffett only has about 20 people at Berkshire HQ, and I imagine they get all sorts of email, probably 99% of it from nuts and/or people looking for a handout, I doubt you'll get a response. Even if you do, you'll likely be told to contact DQ directly, as Buffett has little to do with the day-to-day operations of his subsidiaries.


You're probably right. The reason I wrote Berkshire Hathaway is because I'm a stockholder.

Otherwise, contacting DQ directly makes more sense.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

You're probably right. The reason I wrote Berkshire Hathaway is because I'm a stockholder.

Otherwise, contacting DQ directly makes more sense.

As am I. :)

[tsig]

I am sold, but only if she got big boobs.

Then she could certainly be the Dairy Queen.

[slingblade]

The city I live in is very conservative, very Republican, and very Christian.

We residents are often treated to similar exhortations on business signage, which are not limited to religious blatherings. We get political and social exhorts, as well.

I find them all equally annoying, not only for whatever message they offer, but also for the attitudes behind them. Whether I'm being warned by the local tire store not to trust the sneaky, damned U.N., or one of the restaurants makes a snarky remark about Obama's birth certificate, or a used car dealer reminds me that god made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve, the attitude each message puts forth to me is:

"This is what I think. I don't really care what you think."

Yeah? Well, I thought you cared about my money. That is why you went into business, isn't it? To make money? So why would you display your opinions at your place of business for all to see? What's it got to do with the price of your tires, or the quality of your burgers, or the condition of your used cars? Because that's what I care about.

I came to your business because I need your product and want to give you my money. But now, you've just shown me and everyone else in town that you're not much of a critical thinker (a Birther? Really?), or that you're a bigot, or that you're pushy about your religious beliefs. And you think your opinions are so important, you've put them up for all to see. For weeks.

As annoying as this might be to me, I'm rather glad for it. I don't care to spend my money with a bigot, for one, so I'm glad you told us. I'd also rather not do business with someone who doesn't have great crit thinking skills, and who publicly displays his lack. (Seriously...a Birther?) And as for your religion...well, I just don't care. But I get the feeling you expect me to care, and that bugs me.

So, thanks for sharing your opinion, unasked and uninvited. But I think I'll go elsewhere, as it apparently is all the same to you.

[AdMan]

As am I. :)


Wow so you really are going to the annual meeting! Very cool. :) I've never been but do wish I could go. Have you been to previous ones?

[TragicMonkey]

I don't like the businesses that stick that stupid Jesus fish on their signage, small and in the corner. Not because I care what religion anybody is, but because it's like they think they're sending an open-secret message. "I'm in the club. One of us. Give me your business." It's exclusionary, and seems pretty pointless. Do people really call Bob's Tow Trucking instead of Andy's Tow Trucking because Bob has an icthys on his billboard? Is Christian towing better? It smacks of self-congratulation, smugness, an effort to get something out of it.

And no, I wouldn't put an atheist symbol on my business if I had one. (I might put a monkey, though, but that's a message that has no meaning beyond itself.)

[tsig]

It would have been even more obnoxious had they said "Nuff" ...

Do you view atheism as a religion?

I'm not saying your reaction is right or wrong ... nor am I saying my POV is right or wrong ...

But I don't understand why you're so upset. If you're of a different religion, I can understand that. But atheism isn't a religion, there are no gods, and John 3:16 therefore references nonsense. They could have put up there, "Repent or the Boogeymonster Cometh" and it would have been the same thing.

Furthermore, the people inside or probably thinking it anyway, regardless of whether or not it's up on the board. Xtianity is referenced on our money, in our schools, in the judicial system, everywhere pretty much at all times. It's nothing new to the USA. Yet, I'm assuming you still enjoy food and products from other establishments, using American money, etc and so forth, yet?

It's simply a matter of understanding that we live in a superstitious world full of nonsense, and the John 3:16 bit is nothing new or shocking. Like I said, I can understand why you'd boycott if you were of a different religion. But you're not, right?

Their blizzards are addicting :)

He didn't use the word violated, I did ... based on his reaction and speech I used the word to sum up how I viewed his general reaction.

This.

It pisses me off everytime I have to work on Sundays and Chik-Fil-A is closed, because I like their waffle fries and I have a lot of free coupons for them. So I have to buy my lunch instead of getting it for free. But I don't boycott them all the other days of the week though because they "observe the lords day" at my expense.

Likewise, I love me a good shwarma, even though the restaurant I get my shwarmas at are all kosher and there are Israeli flags up inside. Or what about the local Thai restaurant where pictures of the Buddha are up all over the place? How can I eat their coconut chicken soup !!!

I don't see why it honestly matters unless you are of another religion. It's everywhere all the time in other forms as well, and it's not going away anytime soon in the US. If you're just sick of Xtians pushing their agenda in an arrogant manner, I get that. But reclaiming a DQ in the name of atheism is like picking out a single weed in a field full of them. And if you're issue is again, with being fair to all religions ... I'm assuming you view your atheism as your religion?

Weeding a garden starts with a single weed.

[Disclord]

I don't know if others have had the same experience, but it always seems that the overly-religious are rude to customers. Like they don't want to be bothered with you. I now stay away from places that are run by zealots. They are just too rude.

[bokonon]

I believe in freedom of speech so I won't take them to court, but I do believe it is about time people start talking about how atheists have financial power as well.
The problem with that is that the theists are likely to have overwhelmingly more financial power in any part of Kansas.

Getting offended and letting people know about it is likely to have the same effect as the Catholic Church had on The Last Temptation of Christ -- a lot of free publicity, and a net financial gain to the offending party, whether they take the sign down or not.

[iknownothing]

I don't like the businesses that stick that stupid Jesus fish on their signage, small and in the corner. Not because I care what religion anybody is, but because it's like they think they're sending an open-secret message. "I'm in the club. One of us. Give me your business." It's exclusionary, and seems pretty pointless. Do people really call Bob's Tow Trucking instead of Andy's Tow Trucking because Bob has an icthys on his billboard? Is Christian towing better? It smacks of self-congratulation, smugness, an effort to get something out of it.

Yes, but it's handy when such people identify themselves. Lets me know.

[gnome]

Do people really call Bob's Tow Trucking instead of Andy's Tow Trucking because Bob has an icthys on his billboard?

They have probably found that the answer to this is "yes" or they wouldn't bother.

[slingblade]

Do people really call Bob's Tow Trucking instead of Andy's Tow Trucking because Bob has an icthys on his billboard?

Where I live, they will. (Generally speaking, of course.)

30 years ago, I remember my ex talking about putting the fish on his business cards, because it would draw more business. In his case, it was hypocritical to the extreme, given his behavior. But he also knew very well that it was a successful marketing technique, regardless of his actual beliefs or behavior.

[Crazycowbob]

Where I live, they will. (Generally speaking, of course.)

30 years ago, I remember my ex talking about putting the fish on his business cards, because it would draw more business. In his case, it was hypocritical to the extreme, given his behavior. But he also knew very well that it was a successful marketing technique, regardless of his actual beliefs or behavior.

Agreed, in the midst of a very religious population, it simply makes good business sense to appeal to their delusions. Given the circumstances of this situation, they probably get a lot more people going "hey, look, they have John 3:16 on their sign! Those are our kind of people, we should go there more often...", than they do people who are bothered by it. Net gain in customers=net gain in profit, I doubt Corp will come down very harshly

[Checkmite]

John 3:16 is essentially "the basic concept of Christianity in a single tagline". Nothing more.

And although I'm not Christian, I haven't yet reached the point where a private business owner merely stating publicly that he's Christian so greatly offends me that I would refuse to give him my business. I save that courtesy for those who do things explicitly hateful, like refusing to serve people of other religions, gays, or whatnot. A sign saying "John 3:16" doesn't automatically imply "non-Christians are unwelcome here".

[fuelair]

Beats me, I only read that book once, then tossed it. Some guy saw me toss and tried to give me hell about that. I tossed him.

That's fair!!

[Trakar]

To the poster that asked, I am an Atheist. It does offend me in that its not the place or the forum to push religion. Not any belief system. It is a place to sell and consume a food product. What if it had a Koran scripture posted? I bet the Christian nut jobs would go ape crap over that one. They do not even want to let a Mosque be built to worship privately. I am sick of these stupid Christians deciding who can have a right to freedom of and from religion and who can't, then push their crazy brand of crap on everyone else that they would scream about if reversed. So personally yes I am boycotting DQ until I see some response to this lopsided hypocritical Christian BS.

You are starting to sound more Anti-christian than merely atheist.

[SOdhner]

Just out of curiosity, do any of the people here that are annoyed eat at In-N-Out? John 3:16 is printed on all the cups. Granted, this is not the same as a big sign since it's actually easy to miss - but the sentiment is at least similar.

http://www.snopes.com/business/alliance/inandout.asp

[Resume]

Just out of curiosity, do any of the people here that are annoyed eat at In-N-Out? John 3:16 is printed on all the cups. Granted, this is not the same as a big sign since it's actually easy to miss - but the sentiment is at least similar.

http://www.snopes.com/business/alliance/inandout.asp

Seems those fat atheists have some explaining to do.

Notice I said those. Never been to In-N-Out Burger. Move along.

[Trent Wray]

How would that made any difference?

To a non-Christian, the bible should have no more or less significance than to an atheist, right? I'm thinking some other religions might have some problems with outspoken Infidels/Crusaders/etc.

Then she could certainly be the Dairy Queen. Could she then tell us Victoria's Secret?

I don't like the businesses that stick that stupid Jesus fish on their signage, small and in the corner. Not because I care what religion anybody is, but because it's like they think they're sending an open-secret message. "I'm in the club. One of us. Give me your business." It's exclusionary, and seems pretty pointless. Do people really call Bob's Tow Trucking instead of Andy's Tow Trucking because Bob has an icthys on his billboard? Is Christian towing better? It smacks of self-congratulation, smugness, an effort to get something out of it. Yeah but does it matter whether or not they advertise it ... if they're all thinking it anyway?

Saying it on their billboard is just an extension of them thinking it. Even before they posted it on the marquee they were still thinking it every time they served a Hunger Buster. So every time the OP bought his Blizzard cup or whatever, he was supporting the bigotry unawares ... so what's the difference now?

I think the KKK is despicable. So, I'm not going to do anything that supports them as long as I'm aware of it. Therefore, if I found out that the KKK owned a local Sonic, I'm not EVER going to visit that Sonic, regardless of whether or not they are vocal about their POV or not.

If the OP thinks the vocalization of the beliefs of the DQ is unacceptable, why go there in the first place when they are just "keeping them under wraps"? What's it really all about, the disenfranchisement with the John 3:16 at the DQ? I'm not criticizing ... I'm curious as to the reason it would cause someone to no longer even patronize the place. I can relate with the KKK analogy ... so is it a matter of finding Xtians despicable if they are being openly honest about their beliefs/nonsense/faith/idiocy/whatever?

Weeding a garden starts with a single weed. Yes, and I was wondering if someone would say that :).

My response was going to be, "There are easier and more efficient ways to get rid of a yard full of weeds than to pluck them out one at a time."

Just out of curiosity, do any of the people here that are annoyed eat at In-N-Out? John 3:16 is printed on all the cups. Granted, this is not the same as a big sign since it's actually easy to miss - but the sentiment is at least similar.

http://www.snopes.com/business/alliance/inandout.asp In-N-Out Burger? Can't stand their food :(. But I do get annoyed with Chik-Fil-A's Xtian choices sometimes. Same with Bess Eaton (when they were in business) ... and my favorite local Greek restaurant is closed on Sundays !!!! :(

[steve s]

The electronic marquee must have been added recently as it doesn't appear onGoogle Street View. (Assuming I have the right Dairy Queen).
ETA: The trees and telephone poles in the background seem to match up with those in Google Street View. So it seems to be the correct location at least.

Note the portable sign on the ground at the base of the signpost. They must have decided to go with something more visible and permanent.


John 3:16 is a really popular thing to post on signs and billboards and the like. Every time I see it, I want to hold up a sign that says Numbers 31:17-18.

I just wish they'd heed Matthew 6:1 "“Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven."


I visited Wichita once. They had a daily prayer on the front page of the daily paper. We don't have anything like that here.

Steve S

[Trakar]

Just out of curiosity, do any of the people here that are annoyed eat at In-N-Out? John 3:16 is printed on all the cups. Granted, this is not the same as a big sign since it's actually easy to miss - but the sentiment is at least similar.

http://www.snopes.com/business/alliance/inandout.asp

Isn't that an entirely family-owned business?

[Mashuna]

<slightly off-topic>

I once drank at a bar in Lourdes that served Diablo beer - someone had tried to cover up the name on the beer mats with a black marker pen.

Strong beer, that one.

[Dancing David]

John 3:16 is a really popular thing to post on signs and billboards and the like. Every time I see it, I want to hold up a sign that says Numbers 31:17-18.


Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.


Ah. the children of israel in the land of midian

[slingblade]

Just out of curiosity, do any of the people here that are annoyed eat at In-N-Out? John 3:16 is printed on all the cups. Granted, this is not the same as a big sign since it's actually easy to miss - but the sentiment is at least similar.

http://www.snopes.com/business/alliance/inandout.asp

I tend to avoid such businesses, when possible and/or practical. I'm not about to cut off my nose to spite my face, after all. If they were the only ones open and around and I needed to eat, I wouldn't go hungry out of sheer principle.

But, generally speaking, these folks are exercising their rights. I tend to likewise exercise mine.

[Gawdzilla]

<slightly off-topic>

I once drank at a bar in Lourdes that served Diablo beer - someone had tried to cover up the name on the beer mats with a black marker pen.

Strong beer, that one.

Just put it on my list. Danke!

[bokonon]

I don't eat at In-N-Out, but I wasn't aware of the Bible references. The lines are too long, and the food is nothing special. My theory has been that they're putting heroin in the cheeseburgers, but maybe it's just a cult following thing.

[Gawdzilla]

I don't eat at In-N-Out, but I wasn't aware of the Bible references. The lines are too long, and the food is nothing special. My theory has been that they're putting heroin in the cheeseburgers, but maybe it's just a cult following thing.

I stopped there once, to get a bumper sticker.

[iknownothing]

I'm not criticizing ... I'm curious as to the reason it would cause someone to no longer even patronize the place.

Well, you could certainly take it as being hostile to non-Christians. I wouldn't be offended by the sign, and it's perfectly within their rights. But, I can also choose not to financial support people who are hostile to me.

It does offend me in that its not the place or the forum to push religion. Not any belief system. It is a place to sell and consume a food product.

Actually, since it is a business and not government, it is whatever they choose to make it. If they want it to be a place to push religion, they can freely exercise that right.

[bokonon]

I stopped there once, to get a bumper sticker.
Mmmm, back in the 80s, they were everywhere. People lopped the "B" and "R" off the word "burger" for some reason...

[Denver]

Here's a place that does a little preaching, AND pays taxes.
Sounds ok to me.

[Gawdzilla]

Mmmm, back in the 80s, they were everywhere. People lopped the "B" and "R" off the word "burger" for some reason...

I was stationed in SoCal from '83-'89.

[roger]

Well, you could certainly take it as being hostile to non-Christians.I often reflexively take it that way, but I also don't feel I'm right to do so. After all, the message is offering what they consider something of supreme benefit - everlasting life with a loving creator. We wouldn't get annoyed with a sign that said "free cheese pizza, just come on in" if we were allergic to cheese - they are not being hostile to people with milk allergies.

Of course, it is also a very arrogant statement. It has more than a tinge of "hey, Jew, bet you never heard this before". But, for most people, I don't think that is the intent either. The idea seems to be usually more along the lines of people 'find god' all the time, and we can't predict when. By offering ready reminders, we'll help that person when they are ready to be helped. No different from a billboard offering free substance abuse help.

With all that said, I don't care too much if a private business displays such things, though it is difficult for me personally not to react a bit emotionally each time. But hey, that's my problem (I mean that sincerely; I'd consider myself a better person if I didn't react). OTOH, Berkshire Hathaway is a multinational conglomerate owned by shareholders with various beliefs throughout the world. A francise owner shouldn't be using that brand to spread the franchise owner's very specific religious beliefs, IMO. And I'm pretty sure Warren Buffett considers my word gospel! ;)

[TragicMonkey]

I just wonder what kind of thought goes into such a decision. Did the people putting up the display really think that somebody might see it and decide to change their religious beliefs based on an endorsement by a franchised restaurant? "Well, gee, I never really did hold with this religion stuff before, but if the Dairy Queen down on MLK Blvd recommends it, I guess I will surrender my heart to the loving grace of Lord Jesus to save me for eternal salvation. Also I'll get me an Oreo Blizzard while I'm at it."

[Trent Wray]

Well, you could certainly take it as being hostile to non-Christians. I wouldn't be offended by the sign, and it's perfectly within their rights. But, I can also choose not to financial support people who are hostile to me.Well of course ... anyone can choose not to support something for whatever reason they choose.

But was the message hostile? It might be one thing if they are standing at the door and won't let you leave until you "repeat back to us John 3:16, enough said ... brother!" or something.

Although it's not a bad point. It is a sort of threat. "Enough said,". Even if they had just removed the "Enough said" part it might have made it more "harmless". Just a statement rather than a challenging remark.

After thinking about it some more, I can understand even more why someone of another religion or faith would be offended. It is "challenging" others.

[Trakar]

I'm with Trent on this one, this isn't government, it's a business. And while I'm not sure what the terms are in regards to the franchise agreement regarding these matters, I doubt it was DQ that paid for that sign, it's most likely exempt, and the private property of the owner. If you choose to organize a boycott, and write to headquarters regarding the matter, that's your choice, and a perfectly reasonable one if you find it that offensive. Me, I could really care less. Seeing signs like that promoting things I'm against only remind me that I'm in a country where I can do the same.

Why do some seem to think that being a good atheist requires them to be against theism?

I always perceived it as merely not being a theist.

[Resume]

Why do some seem to think that being a good atheist requires them to be against theism?


Well, take a gander at DOC's thread somewhere hereabouts; I don't know about good atheism but I'm sure agin' that sort of theism.

[Halfcentaur]

I just wonder what kind of thought goes into such a decision. Did the people putting up the display really think that somebody might see it and decide to change their religious beliefs based on an endorsement by a franchised restaurant? "Well, gee, I never really did hold with this religion stuff before, but if the Dairy Queen down on MLK Blvd recommends it, I guess I will surrender my heart to the loving grace of Lord Jesus to save me for eternal salvation. Also I'll get me an Oreo Blizzard while I'm at it."

I think the intended effect is to attract Christians to eat there.

[TragicMonkey]

I think the intended effect is to attract Christians to eat there.

Like moths to a flame, or mosquitos to a vast blood-filled buttock exposed on a riverbank!

[Trakar]

Well, take a gander at DOC's thread somewhere hereabouts; I don't know about good atheism but I'm sure agin' that sort of theism.

And that may be a perfectly legitimate qualification, though I don't know who DOC is and not sure that disagreeing with his positions and statements requires anything except disagreeing with that person's statements. When I disagree with what a person says I generally claim to disagree with that person's statements, I don't claim to disagree with people who wear red shirts or drive Buicks. Christians are as prone to misstate and misunderstand their own religion as anyone else, but it is surprising, to me, to see atheists who seem to feel that being atheist requires them to be anti-theist.

[Resume]

And that may be a perfectly legitimate qualification, though I don't know who DOC is and not sure that disagreeing with his positions and statements requires anything except disagreeing with that person's statements. When I disagree with what a person says I generally claim to disagree with that person's statements, I don't claim to disagree with people who wear red shirts or drive Buicks. Christians are as prone to misstate and misunderstand their own religion as anyone else, but it is surprising, to me, to see atheists who seem to feel that being atheist requires them to be anti-theist.

When a theist lauds or welcomes the death of children because those children then allegedly enter the kingdom of that theist's god I then become anti that theist, and his/her theism. Simple really.

[Puppycow]

Not being an Xtian I had to look up John 3:16. Boooooooring! The Bible's full of hell, fire and damnation, you would've thought they could have picked something with a big more unrepetant omnipotent being va-va-vooom, no?

Made famous by "The John 3:16 Guy" aka "Rainbow Man" (http://www.mentalfloss.com/blogs/archives/10790)

Also known as “Rainbow Man,” the born-again Rollen Stewart and his John 3:16 signs were fixtures at major events in the 1970s and 80s. He brought his message to the World Series, Super Bowl, Olympics, and World Cup. He was outside Buckingham Palace when Di & Charles wed; he went to see the Pope in Alaska. But he was more religious fanatic than sports fan. According to the LA Times, Stewart planned to assassinate President Bush and candidate Clinton in 1992. And he’s now serving three life sentences for holding a maid hostage at a Los Angeles Hyatt, also in 1992.

[Trakar]

When a theist lauds or welcomes the death of children because those children then allegedly enter the kingdom of that theist's god I then become anti that theist, and his/her theism. Simple really.

If you are consistent in that practice and degree of distinction, then you obviously don't meet the qualifications I made and aren't who I am talking about. I never stated that all atheists behaved curiously in that respect, merely that there were some (like the poster I was responding to) who seemed to believe that athe-ist/ism is somehow inherently "anti-the-ist/ism." I'm sure in most cases it's just an unintended and casual generalism, but many forms of prejudice find that rationalization. Hold individuals accountable for their statements and actions, regardless of the name or ism they claim affiliation with.

[Gawdzilla]

He of the glazed expression.

http://forums.randi.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=21551&stc=1&d=1301121626

Ever wonder what kind of guilt he's working off?

[Elizabeth I]

Made famous by "The John 3:16 Guy" aka "Rainbow Man" (http://www.mentalfloss.com/blogs/archives/10790)

Well, that explains why I haven't seen him on camera at any football games for a while.

I always wondered how he could afford to travel around the country and buy tickets to all those high-dollar sporting events.

[bikerdruid]

He of the glazed expression.

http://forums.randi.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=21551&stc=1&d=1301121626

Ever wonder what kind of guilt he's working off?

promoting christianity and queer pride at the same time?

[I Ratant]

I stopped there once, to get a bumper sticker.
.
Golly, that was years ago!
It was even written up in Playboy.. how to cut off the "r".

[Piggy]

I like businesses to really go all out, like the Heart of Jesus Auto Repair Shop I saw in Georgia once. Mural of Jesus, twice life-size, covering one outside wall.

Yeah, see, around here, we don't mince words.

I actually have no problem with the DQ sign. I mean, hey, you know where they stand.

I don't go to DQs b/c they have pretty much nothing I can eat, but if I did, the sign wouldn't stop me. Ok, so now I know the religious beliefs of the owner, great, can I have my onion rings, please?

[Björn Toulouse]

Well, that explains why I haven't seen him on camera at any football games for a while.


Me too. I had never heard what had become of him. Thought the sportscasters called him Rainbow Head, not Rainbow Man. Guess chemicals in the wig or that early exposure to Budwater gave him brain damage.

[Trent Wray]

promoting christianity and queer pride at the same time? and snow cones apparently

[gentlehorse]

Ok, so now I know the religious beliefs of the owner, great, can I have my onion rings, please?

That's about where I stand on the issue.

[I Ratant]

Yeah, see, around here, we don't mince words.

I actually have no problem with the DQ sign. I mean, hey, you know where they stand.

I don't go to DQs b/c they have pretty much nothing I can eat, but if I did, the sign wouldn't stop me. Ok, so now I know the religious beliefs of the owner, great, can I have my onion rings, please?
.
The DQ Double Fudge Cookie Dough Blizzard is the invention of the Devil!
Just like the tapper keg in the fridge! Devil stuff!

[Beerina]

John 3:16 is a really popular thing to post on signs and billboards and the like. Every time I see it, I want to hold up a sign that says Numbers 31:17-18.


Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.





Ezekiel 23:20:
and [she] lusted after her paramours there, whose members were like those of donkeys, and whose issue was like that of horses.




Deuteronomy 23:1
“No one whose testicles are crushed or whose male organ is cut off shall enter the assembly of the LORD."

[Piggy]

You're forgetting Psalms 137:9, directed at the Edomites:

Happy is the one who seizes your infants
and dashes them against the rocks.

[jhunter1163]

Mmmm, back in the 80s, they were everywhere. People lopped the "B" and "R" off the word "burger" for some reason...

Around here, people paint out the "g" in "Eric and Mike's Angus Steakhouse" for some reason.

[genemc]

Why do some seem to think that being a good atheist requires them to be against theism?

I always perceived it as merely not being a theist.

From your posts here I feel we have different ideas about what an atheist is. To me an atheist is one who does not believe in god. It is not a system of beliefs and it does not "require" me to do anything. Likewise it does not mean anything to speak of me being a "good" atheist, any more than I strive to be a "good" nonbeliever in Santa Claus. I think atheism and theism are antithetic if not antipathetic beliefs. A certain amount of anti-theism is to me inherent in being an atheist. To many people their religion is an extremely important part of themselves, it is integral in why they feel as they do about many aspects of life. I think the most basic premises of their religions are foolish. I think it requires a nearly complete suspension of critical thinking to accept them. That so many people can do this I find troubling. I feel our best chance of solving the problems that face us, both individually and collectively, lies in rational thought unfettered by religious myths and bias. In general they are very interested in bringing their children up to believe in their god as they do. To me this is brainwashing. Many would like public schools to help them in this and most, would try to make certain it does not expose them to anything that would weaken their beliefs or question them. I of course, feel any adequate science education should make them doubt their religion and it is to be hoped, enable them to transcend it. I think there is a lot of prejudice and immorality in many religious teachings. I find it sad and distressing that so many feel it requires a God to be have morality or a purpose in their lives. Feeling as I do I am against theism and all the more so because of the influence it has in our society. An influence that surpasses their representation because so many who do not believe, or are beginning to doubt their beliefs, are so hesitant to be forthcoming about it. To be honest I do not understand why this should be surprising to you. And it strikes me as ironic considering the prevalence and vehemence of the anti-atheistic feeling among the religious of the world.
As for the op, I tend to fall in line with the majority. It is not going to stop me from getting a burger if I want one. The only way it really bothers me is as a reminder that this sort of belief is as accepted as it is. I suspect if an atheist put outside his shop "He's Dead. Its been 2000 years. He's Not Coming Back. Get Over it Already.", it might be bad for his business.

[Gawdzilla]

promoting christianity and queer pride at the same time?

I think one is the cause for the other. :rolleyes:

[bikerdruid]

From your posts here I feel we have different ideas about what an atheist is. To me an atheist is one who does not believe in god. It is not a system of beliefs and it does not "require" me to do anything. Likewise it does not mean anything to speak of me being a "good" atheist, any more than I strive to be a "good" nonbeliever in Santa Claus. I think atheism and theism are antithetic if not antipathetic beliefs. A certain amount of anti-theism is to me inherent in being an atheist. To many people their religion is an extremely important part of themselves, it is integral in why they feel as they do about many aspects of life. I think the most basic premises of their religions are foolish. I think it requires a nearly complete suspension of critical thinking to accept them. That so many people can do this I find troubling. I feel our best chance of solving the problems that face us, both individually and collectively, lies in rational thought unfettered by religious myths and bias. In general they are very interested in bringing their children up to believe in their god as they do. To me this is brainwashing. Many would like public schools to help them in this and most, would try to make certain it does not expose them to anything that would weaken their beliefs or question them. I of course, feel any adequate science education should make them doubt their religion and it is to be hoped, enable them to transcend it. I think there is a lot of prejudice and immorality in many religious teachings. I find it sad and distressing that so many feel it requires a God to be have morality or a purpose in their lives. Feeling as I do I am against theism and all the more so because of the influence it has in our society. An influence that surpasses their representation because so many who do not believe, or are beginning to doubt their beliefs, are so hesitant to be forthcoming about it. To be honest I do not understand why this should be surprising to you. And it strikes me as ironic considering the prevalence and vehemence of the anti-atheistic feeling among the religious of the world.
As for the op, I tend to fall in line with the majority. It is not going to stop me from getting a burger if I want one. The only way it really bothers me is as a reminder that this sort of belief is as accepted as it is. I suspect if an atheist put outside his shop "He's Dead. Its been 2000 years. He's Not Coming Back. Get Over it Already.", it might be bad for his business.


welcome to the forum.
paragraphs.......are our friends.

[genemc]

welcome to the forum.
paragraphs.......are our friends.

Thanks for the welcome.

And I appreciate the admonishment as well.

I have much to learn.

[Trakar]

From your posts here I feel we have different ideas about what an atheist is. To me an atheist is one who does not believe in god. It is not a system of beliefs and it does not "require" me to do anything. Likewise it does not mean anything to speak of me being a "good" atheist, any more than I strive to be a "good" nonbeliever in Santa Claus. I think atheism and theism are antithetic if not antipathetic beliefs. A certain amount of anti-theism is to me inherent in being an atheist. To many people their religion is an extremely important part of themselves, it is integral in why they feel as they do about many aspects of life. I think the most basic premises of their religions are foolish. I think it requires a nearly complete suspension of critical thinking to accept them. That so many people can do this I find troubling. I feel our best chance of solving the problems that face us, both individually and collectively, lies in rational thought unfettered by religious myths and bias. In general they are very interested in bringing their children up to believe in their god as they do. To me this is brainwashing. Many would like public schools to help them in this and most, would try to make certain it does not expose them to anything that would weaken their beliefs or question them. I of course, feel any adequate science education should make them doubt their religion and it is to be hoped, enable them to transcend it. I think there is a lot of prejudice and immorality in many religious teachings. I find it sad and distressing that so many feel it requires a God to be have morality or a purpose in their lives. Feeling as I do I am against theism and all the more so because of the influence it has in our society. An influence that surpasses their representation because so many who do not believe, or are beginning to doubt their beliefs, are so hesitant to be forthcoming about it. To be honest I do not understand why this should be surprising to you. And it strikes me as ironic considering the prevalence and vehemence of the anti-atheistic feeling among the religious of the world.
As for the op, I tend to fall in line with the majority. It is not going to stop me from getting a burger if I want one. The only way it really bothers me is as a reminder that this sort of belief is as accepted as it is. I suspect if an atheist put outside his shop "He's Dead. Its been 2000 years. He's Not Coming Back. Get Over it Already.", it might be bad for his business.

Why would an atheist do such a thing?
Atheism isn't about attacking the beliefs of others, it's supposed to be about a mere lack of religious beliefs for yourself. Intolerance is wrong regardless of one's religious beliefs, or the lack thereof.

[Trent Wray]

Around here, people paint out the "g" in "Eric and Mike's Angus Steakhouse" for some reason. "This is DQ Country. Enough said."

[Trent Wray]

Why would an atheist do such a thing?
Atheism isn't about attacking the beliefs of others, it's supposed to be about a mere lack of religious beliefs for yourself. Intolerance is wrong regardless of one's religious beliefs, or the lack thereof.Why would an atheist do such a thing?

The same reason anyone would do anything.

[dlorde]

I am a die hard atheist...

A die hard atheist... I like that :D

[bikerdruid]

A die hard atheist... I like that :D

so if irrefutable evidence for the existence of 'god' was uncovered, you would still be an atheist?

[Trakar]

Why would an atheist do such a thing?

The same reason anyone would do anything.

You seem to be indicating that shallow-consideration, deeply rooted intolerance and arrogant self-aggrandization are rather common motivators of all human action,...and if it weren't stated with such absolutism, you may have a point.

[steve s]

Made famous by "The John 3:16 Guy" aka "Rainbow Man" (http://www.mentalfloss.com/blogs/archives/10790)

From his wiki page...
However, the marriage was somewhat rocky, in part due to his violent mood swings. During the 1986 World Series, Hockridge said that Stewart tried to choke her for standing in the wrong spot with a John 3:16 sign. They divorced in 1990, but they kept in touch for many years.[7]

and...

After this conviction, he was found guilty of four stink bomb attacks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollen_Stewart#Arrest_and_lifetime_imprisonment_fo r_kidnapping

Stink bombs? I guess he was out of holy hand grenades.

Steve S

[GrouchoMarxist]

There was a lot of choking during the '86 series.

[Trent Wray]

A die hard atheist... I like that :D Well then, yippee kay yeah .... muther ****** ....

:)

Why would an atheist do such a thing?

The same reason anyone would do anything.
You seem to be indicating that shallow-consideration, deeply rooted intolerance and arrogant self-aggrandization are rather common motivators of all human action,...and if it weren't stated with such absolutism, you may have a point.Actually I didn't state what you just said with absolutism ... you did.

I left it open to interpretation because human motivations, at their foundation, are just that: open to interpretation. Plus, leaving things open to interpretation often invoke responses from people as if they were looking in a mirror. Makes it more interesting :)

To address what you just said, I wouldn't say "all human action". I would say "some," irregardless of tags and labels they toss on themselves or what they think about themselves. Homo sapiens are homo sapiens.

[iknownothing]

Atheism isn't about attacking the beliefs of others, it's supposed to be about

"Supposed to be" according to who? Who makes the rules?

For some people, yes that's all. For other people, the cultural context makes it more contentious.

I don't believe in invisible unicorns. And I don't spend any time trying to argue against their existence. But if I lived in a place where the vast majority of people made frequent, public references to the worship of invisible unicorns (complete with distrust and hostility towards nonbelievers), I would probably feel different about it.

[roger]

Around here, people paint out the "g" in "Eric and Mike's Angus Steakhouse" for some reason.
Oh, they are trying to make it say "Eric, Mikes', and us Steakhouse". This is to convey the fraternal and friendly type atmosphere the restaurant has. Many is the time I've gone there, and Eric and Mike really filled my pie hole with their meat. You really feel like 'one of the boys' there.

[FramerDave]

Is this particular Dairy Queen a company store, or is it a franchise?

I think most (all?) stores are franchises. Still, they can't just display anything they want under the DQ banner.

With a franchise, the store owner/franchisee usually has a lot of latitude in the operation of the business, as long as they keep within certain parameters set up by the franchisor. Getting in touch with the franchisor can help in putting some pressure on the store owner, but realistically there's only so much they can do. Any franchisor has to walk a very fine line between keeping the buying public happy and keeping a good relationship with the franchisee. After all, that's where their money comes from.

Of course, it all depends on what their franchise agreement says.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Wow so you really are going to the annual meeting! Very cool. :) I've never been but do wish I could go. Have you been to previous ones?

I've been to everyone since the baby shares came out in, what, 1996 or so? Love it.

A company I sometimes subcontract through on projects is also located there, so we get together for lunch and/or beer. Makes it a business trip!

[Kopji]

I for one, will continue to go to DQ for my ice cream, (just not the one in Andover Kansas).

I do have to wonder how many ice cream cones they'll need to sell before they pay for that sign.

[Kopji]

John 3:16
For God so loved ice cream that he gave us waffle cones dipped in chocolate, not so we would be condemned to a trinity of flavors, but that there might some day come 31.

[Trakar]

"Supposed to be" according to who? Who makes the rules?...

Dictionaries!?

Words do have meanings and A-Theism, is simply the lack of belief in god(s), it isn't Anti-Theism, which seems more the belief system that some atheists seem to follow and promote, and why so many people (mis)understanding atheism to be a belief-system rather than the lack of a particular set of beliefs, as the term implies.

You are certainly free to be antitheistic if that is your thing, but it has little or nothing to do with atheism.

[Trakar]

Actually I didn't state what you just said with absolutism ... you did...


An interesting parsing of "the same reason anyone does anything,"...I guess, if that's the extent of your consideration and discussion of the subject. But doesn't that rather support my response, which, btb is properly qualified with appropriate conditionals.
("You seem to be indicating that shallow-consideration, deeply rooted intolerance and arrogant self-aggrandization are rather common motivators of all human action,...and if it weren't stated with such absolutism, you may have a point.")

[devnull]

so if irrefutable evidence for the existence of 'god' was uncovered, you would still be an atheist?

If he's anything like me, its not that Id reject irrefutable evidence of a god's existence, it's just that I think the chances of such evidence arising is zero.

Not essentially zero, not nearly zero.....zero.

That being said, Im open to being wrong.

[Trent Wray]

An interesting parsing of "the same reason anyone does anything,"...I guess, if that's the extent of your consideration and discussion of the subject. But doesn't that rather support my response, which, btb is properly qualified with appropriate conditionals.
("You seem to be indicating that shallow-consideration, deeply rooted intolerance and arrogant self-aggrandization are rather common motivators of all human action,...and if it weren't stated with such absolutism, you may have a point.")I may or may not be following you completely here ...

If you're saying that your conditional qualifiers were "seem to be" and "if" ... then okay, you're correct: you used conditional qualifiers.

If you're wanting me to discuss in more detail exactly what I meant by:

Why would an atheist do such a thing?

The same reason anyone would do anything.

I left it open to interpretation for a reason. The same reason I mentioned in my previous post. Your response would be more telling and interesting than mine. I already know what I think. But I don't know what you think.

But as far as what I think ... and based on reading this post and others of yours, for example:

Why would an atheist do such a thing?
Atheism isn't about attacking the beliefs of others, it's supposed to be about a mere lack of religious beliefs for yourself. Intolerance is wrong regardless of one's religious beliefs, or the lack thereof.

... I'm saying that an atheist could be intolerant, or anything else that any other human being could be. Atheism and atheists are not the same thing. One is a concept with a definition. The other is a homo sapien. Like science and scientist are not the same thing. An atheist does not represent "atheism". They represent humanity trying to represent something, if they're even trying at all. The same goes for believers of Christianity for example. Christianity is what it is, despite believers. A believer is a person representing humanity, who is trying to represent something else.

It's all like kids playing "dress up". It doesn't matter what name you give yourself, or what clothes you wear ... or whether or not you think you are something different or more than what you are. People are people underneath all that nonsense.

Trying to say that believers are capable of "shallow-consideration, deeply rooted intolerance and arrogant self-aggrandization" and that atheists for some reason are not, is like claiming that atheists and believers are different types of human beings. So, if you agree with my points here ... then yes, you are correct in that I am supporting this part of your response: Intolerance is wrong regardless of one's religious beliefs, or the lack thereof. ... more or less :)

[Trakar]

I may or may not be following you completely here ...

If you're saying that your conditional qualifiers were "seem to be" and "if" ... then okay, you're correct: you used conditional qualifiers.


With conditional qualifiers, my statements were not stated with "absolutism."


If you're wanting me to discuss in more detail exactly what I meant by:


not at all, I understood you perfectly well,...I don't agree with you, but don't wish to pursue these topic sidetracks (yours or mine).

[Uncle Otto]

[QUOTE=Resume;7010068--------------

In my neck of the woods there are several businesses with signs like this; they're free to put 'em up and I'm free not to patronize them.[/QUOTE]


I have the same thing around here. Lots of businesses put those stupid fish emblems on their buildings or vehicles.

[Trent Wray]

not at all, I understood you perfectly well,...I don't agree with you, but don't wish to pursue these topic sidetracks (yours or mine).Totally cool :). Thanx for at least saying as much ;)

[iknownothing]

Dictionaries!?

Words do have meanings and A-Theism, is simply the lack of belief in god(s), it isn't Anti-Theism, which seems more the belief system that some atheists seem to follow and promote, and why so many people (mis)understanding atheism to be a belief-system rather than the lack of a particular set of beliefs, as the term implies.

You are certainly free to be antitheistic if that is your thing, but it has little or nothing to do with atheism.

Yes, the dictionary definition is limited to that. But you seem to be mistaking that for some kind of ideal of atheist behavior.

Atheists, although their lack of belief in God is their one feature in common, are free to make of that unbelief what they will. And some, like my husband, are totally uninterested in religion; he barely notices it even when he's surrounded by it. Others are more sensitive to it or even downright hostile. I guess I fall between -- like I said, I wouldn't get upset about the DQ sign, but I also wouldn't consider that business owner to be friendly to me.

But just because someone's sensitivity to religion isn't a part of the dictionary definition of atheism, doesn't mean they're falling short of a standard somehow.

[brodski]

Dictionaries!?


Are you sure that you want to make this argument, given that a some dictionaries define atheism like so:

Atheism
Noun.

i. Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.
ii. The doctrine that there is no God or gods.
iii. Godlessness; immorality.

[Reno]

I have a little ichthys on my car. It has feet and hands and is holding a spanner and has the word 'evolve' written inside the body. From a distance it looks like the Xtian symbol. I like to think that a smug Xtian driving behind me will look it and inwardly smile approvingly, only to realise when he comes close enough to see it properly that he's been duped.

I'd love a god-botherer to come up and chastise me about it.

[Trakar]

Yes, the dictionary definition is limited to that. But you seem to be mistaking that for some kind of ideal of atheist behavior.

Atheists, although their lack of belief in God is their one feature in common, are free to make of that unbelief what they will. And some, like my husband, are totally uninterested in religion; he barely notices it even when he's surrounded by it. Others are more sensitive to it or even downright hostile. I guess I fall between -- like I said, I wouldn't get upset about the DQ sign, but I also wouldn't consider that business owner to be friendly to me.

But just because someone's sensitivity to religion isn't a part of the dictionary definition of atheism, doesn't mean they're falling short of a standard somehow.

Of course, you are free to act and behave as you will, but it isn't a-theism that supports and fosters those types of hostile and aggressive actions, merely the flip-side of the same intolerances and bigotry that are exhibited by some theists in their attacks and assaults upon those who don't share their particular beliefs and issues.

Atheism is merely the lack of theistic beliefs. AntiTheism is a belief system that religions are bad and should be vigorously resisted and attacked. You are free to choose your beliefs or lack of beliefs. Intolerance, personal attacks and bigotry are abhorrent regardless of whether they are manifested and expressed by theists or atheists.

[Trakar]

Are you sure that you want to make this argument, given that a some dictionaries define atheism like so:

I wouldn't agree with the last "definition," but I see notheing in either of the other two that conflicts with my understandings or statements.

[LarianLeQuella]

But I have trouble just assuming a local branch of a national chain would pull something this dumb even in a red state.

You apparently haven't dealt with many red state theitards :p

Remember, when the religious do something that plumbs the depth of stupidity, they will invariably dig deeper.