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Cleopatra
24th March 2004, 01:56 PM
... you might start your life as a nun and end up a call-girl. And I though that Denmark is a strange country :)


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3561231.stm



From nun to prostitute


Ms van Raay went from nun to teacher to prostitute
An Australian woman who became nun at the age of 18 but went on to spend 20 years working as prostitute has released a book on her life - under the provocative title God's Call Girl.
Carla van Raay, who was born in Holland in 1938 but moved to Australia as a child, joined a Melbourne convent as a way of escaping a traumatic childhood. But after a number of conflicts with other nuns, she left and briefly became a teacher before embarking on a long-term life offering sex for money.
[....]


Ms van Raay told BBC World Service's Everywoman programme she had had "tremendous fun" at first, but ended up finding the profession degrading and humiliating.

"I would not recommend it to anyone," she said.

"The way I started off was with very high ideals and a great deal of naivety, and I didn't end up that way.

"I felt degraded in the end, and all the guilt that was inside me came to the surface and I felt guilty and shameful. I was in a bad way."

'The Devil was my only friend'

Now 65, Ms van Raay has been celibate for 12 years.

She said that many of the reasons behind her actions in her life related to the abuse she suffered as a child.


Vatican directives on free speech caused friction in Ms van Raay's convent
"When I came to Australia I thought I was in paradise - it was such a bright, sunny country," she explained.

"It was pretty grim in Holland... I was abused as a child. But because I adjusted when I was little, because children do, and I loved my father. But when he wanted to silence me, at the age of 6, he did something very drastic.

"He told me not to go to confession, because in confession I might tell the priest what he was up to with me, and he didn't want anyone to know."

She added that her interpretation of her father's action was that she was "the baddest girl in the world" and that God had abandoned her.

"The Devil was my only friend," she said.

"I was extremely desolate after that."

As a result of the experience, Ms van Raay said she joined the convent, stating that she had become withdrawn and wanted to pull away from life.

But also said she felt a strong vocational feeling that "it was the right thing to become a nun."

"But the fact of the matter also was that I wasn't able to face life. I didn't know what relationships were all about. I didn't know anything about the world."

Friction

In total, Ms van Raay stayed 12 years in the convent. She said that at first she was happy, but the laws became stricter.

The big change, however, was when the Vatican passed laws allowing nuns greater freedom to speak their minds.

It was only on account of everything I suffered that I woke up to myself

Carla van Raay
While Ms van Raay was in favour of these changes, other sisters were not. She said the friction created by this eventually caused her to leave.

Shortly afterwards she began work as a teacher in Melbourne's biggest school. After six months she had "scotched" religion. She stayed in the school another year, before getting married - but it did not last.

"When I got married, I married a man who was a very good man, and one whom I tried to love," she said.

"But because I'd had no experience of a boyfriend before, and no experience of life in general, it was inevitable that I would have a tempestuous affair with a 19-year-old.

"That broke up the marriage, and I was alone with a child."

She admitted this was "not a good excuse" for becoming a prostitute.

But she said that there was "sexual confusion" inside her that made her think of doing so, "that made me want to explore my sexuality in this way."

No regrets

The trigger for her taking up prostitution, she said, was when she saw migrant women making raincoats in a factory.


Ms van Raay came to Melbourne in 1950
"I thought to myself, 'these women are prostituting themselves for a few dollars an hour'," she said.

"As soon as the word came into my mind, I thought, well, I can prostitute myself as well, but I'll make good money and I'll have fun at the same time."

Ms van Raay is now working on a second book, entitled In Praise Of Prostitution.

She said that she had now "exonerated" her father, and that she was now the happiest she had ever been.

"When I finally faced everything inside me and realised I was none of these dreadful things I had been feeling about myself, I have been at peace and enjoyed myself very much," she said.

"Now I don't have any regrets. I'm grateful for my life - because it was only on account of everything I suffered that I woke up to myself."

Goshawk
24th March 2004, 02:14 PM
Okay, so, now I'm confused. When she says this:Ms van Raay told BBC World Service's Everywoman programme she had had "tremendous fun" at first, but ended up finding the profession degrading and humiliating.

"I would not recommend it to anyone," she said.

"The way I started off was with very high ideals and a great deal of naivety, and I didn't end up that way.

"I felt degraded in the end, and all the guilt that was inside me came to the surface and I felt guilty and shameful. I was in a bad way."

'The Devil was my only friend' ... which career is she referring to? The nun, or the hooker?

...or the teacher?

:D

Cleopatra
24th March 2004, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by Goshawk
Okay, so, now I'm confused. When she says this:... which career is she referring to? The nun, or the hooker?

...or the teacher?

:D Yeah the interview is hilarious, I might generalizing but I have observed that people who take sex really seriously and they practice it either professionally or not but in any case practically with everybody have the attitude of the old wise persons, of the persons who travelled the world and saw everything ...How many experiences you might get by starring...ceilings? Go figure.

NoZed Avenger
24th March 2004, 02:27 PM
Ms van Raay is now working on a second book, entitled In Praise Of Prostitution.

* * *

Ms van Raay told BBC World Service's Everywoman programme she had had "tremendous fun" at first, but ended up finding the profession degrading and humiliating.

"I would not recommend it to anyone," she said. . . .

"I felt degraded in the end, and all the guilt that was inside me came to the surface and I felt guilty and shameful. I was in a bad way."

High praise, indeed.

LuxFerum
24th March 2004, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by Cleopatra
have observed that people who take sex really seriously and they practice it either professionally or not but in any case practically with everybody have the attitude of the old wise persons, of the persons who travelled the world and saw everything
Maybe because she is 65 years old and did travel at least half of the world.:D

Zep
24th March 2004, 06:20 PM
Gives a new meaning to the phrase "Fun Down Under", doesn't it! :)

corplinx
24th March 2004, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by Cleopatra
Yeah the interview is hilarious, I might generalizing but I have observed that people who take sex really seriously and they practice it either professionally or not but in any case practically with everybody have the attitude of the old wise persons, of the persons who travelled the world and saw everything ...How many experiences you might get by starring...ceilings? Go figure.

Keep talking hot stuff...... Oh yeah.

a_unique_person
24th March 2004, 08:41 PM
I am surprised at you, Cleopatra. Many women who go into prostitution were sexually abused as children. Prostitution is often not so much about the sex act, as such, as the people who avail themselves of the service, the days when it was illegal and the police had to be paid off, etc, the drugs that many clients and prosititutes use, the criminals, pimps and standover men.

If she says that the experience, from being sexually abused to what usually is a lonely life after the career as a prostitute has ended, has drained her, and left here broken, I believe her. She appears to have been unable to form friendships, for example.

Cleopatra
25th March 2004, 06:21 AM
AUP since I started practicing law I have started to suspect that when it comes to prostitution there must be some fundamental myths we believe in. I do not have statistics to support my arguments, I have formed this opinion based on the women I have represented and the cases I have studied.

Of the prostitutes very few have been sexually abused when they were kids.For the most of them, prostitution was the natural end or the climax of the mentality "making a lot of money without working". Many women start by sleeping with their bosses in order to enjoy privileges in their work, others they do it in order to enjoy a luxurious life, all of them believe that they are beautiful and they want to make a profit out of this beauty, their motto is and I apologize for the vulgar language in advance that " God gave them a c**** to make a living out of it" . Most of my clients for example were college students that wanted to get dressed with expensive clothes and enjoy a glamorous life-style " now they are young without having to wait or work for it". Not to mention that prostitution gives them the idea that they control the world especially if their clients are wealthy or influential.

I don't know how things are in Australia but the mentality of the prostitution is widely spread among young girls in this country. I am not suggesting that many girls exercise it as a profession but on the other hand my grandma used to say there is only one way to define sex for profit. If they are unlucky and they get involved with drugs, they end up in the streets and then there is not way to return. Others are abused by clients, in Greece that we have many visitors from the Arab countries is amazing what they do to their girls.

To make a long story short, I insist that I find ridiculous an ex-whore preaching about the meaning of life suggesting that she has experienced many things and I find the example of this woman ridiculous and extreme.For a moment I thought to post the thread in the Humor section.

P.S. There is a whole different category of prostitutes from the countries of Eastern Europe but this category has to do with slave trade. It doesn't have anything to do with this discussion.