A UFO in the Skies of Mars

[Patricio Elicer]

Apart from the habitual nonsense built around some pictures sent by Spirit and Opportunity from Mars (rabbits, discs, etc), this one may make sense as a real mystery:

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39901000/jpg/_39901016_nasa_203.jpg

Of course I'm not suggesting it's an extraterrestrial (or extramartian for that matter) ship, but even there I find that picture remarkable. Speculations have arisen of a meteorite entering the martian atmosphere, or of a man-made ship in Mars orbit (Viking 2 being selected as a likely candidate)

I find it highly unlikely or improbable that a meteorite or the Viking 2 craft were to pass in front of Spirit's camera just at the right time and at the right spot of the sky, to be captured.

A mystery that will very likely be exploited by ufologists and conspiracy theorists.

LINK (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3520636.stm)

From the object's motion, scientists do not think it was the Russian probes Mars 2, Mars 3, Mars 5, or Phobos 2; or the American probes Mariner 9 or Viking 1.

That leaves Viking 2, which has a polar orbit that would fit with the north-south orientation of the streak.

In addition, only Viking 1 and 2 are in orbits that could produce the type of motion as fast as that seen by Spirit.

[Brian]

It could lead to some trivial, yet interesting discovery. Off the top of my head; maybe Mars has an unusually large amount of shooting stars. Less atmosphere for a clearer view. Less light from the sun for a darker sky (and no artificial light polution to speak of). Just a noodling thought.
I thought the pictures were neat.

[thaiboxerken]

Could it be a speck of dust?

[davidhorman]

Viking? How long have they been in orbit?

David

[Blue Monk]

Hmmm, I would think that they would be able to calculate Vickings orbit but I guess it's been so long that it would be hard to calculate now.

Seems plausible though.

The less dense atmosphere making meteorites more easily visible makes sense to me.

Maybe the Bad Astronomer will chime in on this one.

[MRC_Hans]

Quite possible that the mars sky gives more "shooting star" observations that the Earth sky:

- Being closer to the asteroid belt, it might have a greater supply of potential meteors.

- With the thin atmosphere, meteors just grazing the atmosphere may make several rounds before being destroyed.

- This is my speculation, but Jupiter tends to clear the inner solar system for some of the objects straying in from afar. Could the Moon have the same effect for Earth?

The speculation about probability is irrelevant as long as we only have one such observation: No matter how improbable, it happened, period.

Probability can be used to sort possible explanations, in this case the natural explanatins are the most probable.

Hans

[dann]

Originally posted by MRC_Hans
- This is my speculation, but Jupiter tends to clear the inner solar system for some of the objects straying in from afar. Could the Moon have the same effect for Earth?
A very popular theory - until it was discovered how often Earth has actually been impacted, I think.
Isn't it much more likely that Earth whose mass (and consequently gravity) is so much larger than the Moon's could have a 'Jupiter effect' for the Moon?

[MRC_Hans]

Uhh, I did not say that Earth was not impacted. It is impacted all the time. I speculated that it might be impacted less often.

It does not necessarily follow that it works vice-versa for the moon.

Hans

[Oleron]

Obvious hoax. It's just a Martian flinging a frisbee.

[Ed]

Scratch in the negative?

[sweetkb713]

Originally posted by Patricio Elicer
I find it highly unlikely or improbable that a meteorite or the Viking 2 craft were to pass in front of Spirit's camera just at the right time and at the right spot of the sky, to be captured.

A mystery that will very likely be exploited by ufologists and conspiracy theorists.

LINK (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3520636.stm)



Oh, no, no, no. Do you see that it is cigar shaped? That is a classical UFO shape. If they are visiting Mars, then there must be life on Mars for them to observe. There must even be Martians for them to abduct!

[Patricio Elicer]

Originally posted by Blue Monk
Maybe the Bad Astronomer will chime in on this one. I've been watching BA's website for this, but no word from Phil yet.

The subject has indeed been discussed in BA's Forums (http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=12118), but not much light has been cast on the mystery so far

[Patricio Elicer]

davidhorman:
Viking? How long have they been in orbit?Both Viking orbiters are in Mars orbit since 1976, so that makes around 28 years.

Ed:
Scratch in the negative?There's no negative here, since they are digital pictures

[neutrino_cannon]

A remember seeing many pictures transmitted from far away probes having distortions, wierd blurrings and the like.

I would assume it happens less now, but maybe that's just radio chatter getting into the picture?



I think the term "UFO' is a little overextended here. It probably isn't flying, just orbiting. I'd love to see the bird that can fly in mar's atmosphere. On the one hand, the gravity is lower, but the atmosphere is so... hardly there. Furthermore, it's all co2, so the metabolism would have to be anaerobic, which probably means a very un-energetic bird.

Anyway, we may never know, but fun to speculate on.

[Archangel]

Originally posted by MRC_Hans

- This is my speculation, but Jupiter tends to clear the inner solar system for some of the objects straying in from afar. Could the Moon have the same effect for Earth?

Hans

Given that Mars has at least 3 (too lazy to check up the real number) moons surely that would mean less rocks than the earth even?

[deBergerac]

Originally posted by dann

A very popular theory - until it was discovered how often Earth has actually been impacted, I think.
Isn't it much more likely that Earth whose mass (and consequently gravity) is so much larger than the Moon's could have a 'Jupiter effect' for the Moon?

It is not only the mass that is of importance in this matter and with a crude model it is possible to show that the Moon has a “Jupiter effect” for the Earth but the opposite is not true.

Assume that it is the gravity from the combined masses of the Earth and the Moon that influence an object to fall into the Earth-Moon system and also that the object travels in a straight line through the Earth-Moon system before it hits either the Earth or the Moon. The last two assumptions are the most questionable since it excludes the possibility that an object will miss both the Earth and the Moon and the fact that the objects trajectory will be curved. But if the object has a large velocity towards the Earth-Moon system it is not a too bad approximation.

This implies that the probability for any object to be diverted and fall into the Earth-Moon system is proportional to the masses and the probability to hit the Earth or the Moon is 100% but divided between the Earth and the Moon according to their respective projections perpendicular to the path of the object.
The Moon will have a “Jupiter effect” for the Earth if it contributes less to the possibility for an object to fall into the Earth-Moon system than it takes hits from objects falling in.

The mass of an object scales as the volume of the object. If we assume the Earth and the Moon to be spheres and since the volume of a sphere is (4pi*r^3)/3 and the area of a circle is pi*r^2 and the circle is the projection of the sphere we can estimate the different contributions.

Let R be the radius of the Earth and r the radius of the Moon. Earths contribution to the system being hit will be R^3/(R^3+r^3) i.e. the mass of the Earth divided by the mass of the Earth and the Moon. The percentage of hits taken by the Earth will be R^2/(R^2+r^2) i.e. the area projected by the Earth divided by the combined area of the Earth and the Moon. Since R>r it follows that the Moon contributes less to the possibility for objects to fall into the Earth-Moon system than the percentage of hits it takes from the objects that do fall into the system.

The different densities of the objects are not included but since the density of the Moon is lower than that of the Earth it makes it even worse for the Moon. On the other hand the centre of gravity for the Earth-Moon system is closer to the Earth than to the Moon.

[neutrino_cannon]

Originally posted by Archangel


Given that Mars has at least 3 (too lazy to check up the real number) moons surely that would mean less rocks than the earth even?

Mars has two, and both of them are *really* small. So small, they aren't even spherical.

They probably don't make ideal obit cleaners.

They're called phobos and deimos, if you want to look them up.

[The Bad Astronomer]

The image showing the streak really doesn't give enough information to tell us what the object is. I suspect it's just a plain old meteor. Mars has air, and it would have meteors for all the same reasons we do here on Earth. It might even have more, being nearer the asteroid belt.

Once we get more images like that, then some statistics can be done to get numbers of such objects. Until then, there really isn't much that can be said here.

[Beleth]

It's a 747!

The Mars landings are a hoax!






(sorry, I saw a chance to post right after The Bad Astronomer, and I couldn't resist!)

[Archangel]

Originally posted by neutrino_cannon


Mars has two, and both of them are *really* small. So small, they aren't even spherical.

They probably don't make ideal obit cleaners.

They're called phobos and deimos, if you want to look them up.

Yeah I had a brain fart and for some reason was including IO as one of Mars'

[Patricio Elicer]

Originally posted by The Bad Astronomer
The image showing the streak really doesn't give enough information to tell us what the object is. I suspect it's just a plain old meteor. Mars has air, and it would have meteors for all the same reasons we do here on Earth. It might even have more, being nearer the asteroid belt.

Once we get more images like that, then some statistics can be done to get numbers of such objects. Until then, there really isn't much that can be said here. Thanks, Phil, for your input on this

[Hazelip]

Originally posted by Patricio Elicer
I find it highly unlikely or improbable that a meteorite or the Viking 2 craft were to pass in front of Spirit's camera just at the right time and at the right spot of the sky, to be captured.Right. Shooting stars, or meteorites, happen only on Earth at completely random moments. Everywhere else in the solar system, it's calculated. :rolleyes:

[neutrino_cannon]

Eh?

I guess you take enough pictures, and you'll see something interesting after a while.

Would different atmospheric composition give the meteors a different hue?

[Peter Jenkins]

I tried enlarging the photo, but it's still a bit fuzzy

http://www.xpphotoalbum.com/data/500/665439901016_nasa_203.jpg?9468

Peter

[Archangel]

Originally posted by Peter Jenkins
I tried enlarging the photo, but it's still a bit fuzzy

http://www.xpphotoalbum.com/data/500/665439901016_nasa_203.jpg?9468

Peter

So its really, another "Paranomal Hat shaped object", should've guessed when Patricio posted it ;)

[nineinchnails_999]

Originally posted by Peter Jenkins
I tried enlarging the photo, but it's still a bit fuzzy

http://www.xpphotoalbum.com/data/500/665439901016_nasa_203.jpg?9468

Peter

Wow even the martians don't like us? Maybe they should be put in the Axis of Evil. I can just see us sending thousands of troops to take over mars. The sad thing is, I wouldn't put it past our president.

[Temporal Renegade]

Here's a slightly better looking pic, after being enhanced with the latest NASA technology:

[TheBoyPaj]

[embarrassing admission]
When I was a little kid I thought that the Viking missions were sent by the actual Vikings. :vk:
[/embarrassing admission]

[WildCat]

Originally posted by sweetkb713


Oh, no, no, no. Do you see that it is cigar shaped? That is a classical UFO shape. If they are visiting Mars, then there must be life on Mars for them to observe. There must even be Martians for them to abduct!
And by inference, the Martians have anuses for them to probe.

[Temporal Renegade]

Originally posted by TheBoyPaj
[embarrassing admission]
When I was a little kid I thought that the Viking missions were sent by the actual Vikings. :vk:
[/embarrassing admission]

....you mean they weren't?:(