Vogel patents

[Brown]

The U.S. Patent database (http://www.uspto.gov/patft/index.html) includes one patent naming Marcel Vogel as an inventor: No. 4,134,066. (This is not a prime number.)

The Patent Office does not have all patents on line, however. The database only goes back to 1976. So if you do a search for all inventions patented by, say, "Thomas Edison," you get search results saying "0 patents."

Vogel's name also is on US Patents 3,058,844, 3,639,188, 3,294,701, 3,265,628, 3,178,611, 3,133,023, 3,100,844, 3,046,540 and 2,686,267. These patents are not found on the US Patent Office web site, but can be found through this web site (http://ep.espacenet.com/search97cgi/s97_cgi.exe?Action=FormGen&Template=ep/en/advanced.hts).

Foreign patent documents with this name include DE1174443, DE1159091, DE1142032, GB1013445, CH438546, CH402179, CH120551 and FR614139. There may be some overlap in subject matter among all these documents.Randi wrote:
My admittedly amateur search of the files of the U.S. Patent & Trademark Office didn't come up with even one patent by your "expert" Vogel; are his "32 patents" in some other country?The conclusion is that only one patent could be found by searching the US Patent database (a good search being "IN/MARCEL AND IN/VOGEL"), and the rest could be found elsewhere. But you had to know where to look. And yes, many of the patents seem to be held in countries other than the USA.

I don't claim that this is an exhaustive search. I found fewer than 32 patents, but perhaps there are more.

[nineinchnails_999]

Good research Brown, but that still doesn't explain that all of this UFO nonsense and why they keep dodging people who inquire about that "metal." All this proves is that maybe they weren't lying about EVERYTHING. Maybe you should pass the sites that you used along to Mr. Randi in case he has any further inquiries to do about patents? (It seems those come up from time to time).

[Brown]

Originally posted by nineinchnails_999
Good research Brown, but that still doesn't explain that all of this UFO nonsense and why they keep dodging people who inquire about that "metal." All this proves is that maybe they weren't lying about EVERYTHING. Maybe you should pass the sites that you used along to Mr. Randi in case he has any further inquiries to do about patents? (It seems those come up from time to time). Exactly. This research has nothing to do with the issue at hand. It has to do only with the credentials of an alleged witness, who allegedly has departed this life and is therefore unavailable to offer his testimony directly.

All we have is what a certain blowhard says the deceased witness would have said... and what the deceased witness said OTHER witnesses said... and all of this comes two us by way of two other intermediary storytellers! The hearsay is indeed multi-layered! Mr. Randi, quite appropriately, wants some first-hand information--instead of discussing what someone said someone else said someone else said... let's see the item in question!

Unfortunately, Mr. Randi's offhand remark about patents also bears upon his own credibility. The blowhard in question was emitting such tremendous quantities of noxious gas in Mr. Randi's direction, that it would be natural for Mr. Randi to assume that all of the blowhard's allegations were completely baseless. But it is possible that not everything blown in Mr. Randi's direction was nonsense.

It appears that there was an individual named Marcel Vogel, he did work for IBM, and he was a named inventor for several US and foreign patents. It is very likely that IBM paid for those patents, and that they were not "vanity patents" pertaining to trivial matters but actually had real-life applicability. Mr. Randi offhandedly remarked that he could not find any indication that Vogel held even a single patent. But a little more careful research would have revealed otherwise, and Mr. Randi's credibility would not be called into question about such a trivial matter.

So Marcel Vogel helped IBM get some patents, so what? Let's get to the really important stuff! Did Vogel analyze the alloy? What tests did he conduct? Did he prepare a written report? Did he publish his findings? What is the name and address of the mysterious "metallurgist friend" who allegedly examined the metals? CAN WE EXAMINE THE METAL?? These are far more important than whether an alleged witness had some patents to his name or not.

[nineinchnails_999]

Originally posted by Brown
So Marcel Vogel helped IBM get some patents, so what? Let's get to the really important stuff! Did Vogel analyze the alloy? What tests did he conduct? Did he prepare a written report? Did he publish his findings? What is the name and address of the mysterious "metallurgist friend" who allegedly examined the metals? CAN WE EXAMINE THE METAL?? These are far more important than whether an alleged witness had some patents to his name or not.

Very well put. Unfortunately I don't think we'll ever find out the answer to those questions.