God declared war!!!

[zenith-nadir]

FROM: New Hamas Chief: Bush Is 'Enemy of God' Sun, Mar 28, 2004 (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&ncid=736&e=1&u=/ap/20040328/ap_on_re_mi_ea/hamas_bush)


GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip - The new leader of the militant group Hamas on Sunday called President Bush the enemy of Islam and said that "God declared war" against Bush, the United States and Israel.

In a speech at Gaza's Islamic University, Hamas leader Abdel Aziz Rantisi said he was not surprised that the United States vetoed a U.N. Security Council resolution condemning Israel's assassination on Monday of Hamas spiritual leader Sheik Ahmed Yassin.

"We knew that Bush is the enemy of God, the enemy of Islam and Muslims. America declared war against God. Sharon declared war against God and God declared war against America, Bush and Sharon," Rantisi said. "The war of God continues against them and I can see the victory coming up from the land of Palestine by the hand of Hamas."

The United States lists Hamas as a terrorist organization.


FROM:US veto on Yassin draws criticism Friday, 26 March, 2004 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3570651.stm)

There have been angry Arab reactions to the US veto of a UN Security Council resolution condemning the killing of the spiritual leader of Hamas. The Council's failure was criticised by Palestinian and Algerian delegates as well as Russia and Indonesia. The US opposed the draft because it did not name Hamas as a terrorist group.

Eleven members approved the resolution - two more than the nine required to pass it - but the US envoy used the veto available only to the five permanent members of the council. For: China, Russia, France, Angola, Chile, Pakistan, Spain, Algeria, Benin, Brazil, Philippines...Abstained: UK, Germany, Romania.... Against: US

Palestinian representative to the UN Nasser al Kidwa expressed disappointment at the failure of the resolution. "Millions will be unable to understand what happened," he said.

Algeria's ambassador to the UN, Abdallah Baali, said the Security Council was "not sending the right message to the world, which has unanimously condemned this crime".

US ambassador to the UN John Negroponte said the proposed resolution was "silent about the terrorist atrocities committed by Hamas", calling it "one-sided". He called for Hamas and other militant groups to be identified in the draft by name.




I am disturbed "god" speaks through Hamas leader Abdel Aziz Rantisi, I am also disturbed that god declares war on people and countries through Hamas leader Abdel Aziz Rantisi.

And on top of all that mind-numbing abuse and peversion of Islam...... I find it the height of hypocrisy that the U-N-I-T-E-D N-A-T-I-O-N-S refused to name Hamas and it's attacks in the resolution condemning the killing of Sheikh Ahmed Yassin....you know the boss of Abdel Aziz Rantisi, the same guy who tells palestinians god HAS declared war on Israel and the USA....

[Badger]

You'd figure this will be a slam-dunk for God, what with that omnipotence thing and all.

[zenith-nadir]

Originally posted by Badger
You'd figure this will be a slam-dunk for God, what with that omnipotence thing and all. One would think god could win the war he just declared through Abdel Aziz Rantisi with a wave of his allmighty hand.

But I guess God is getting lazy after 6 billion years of watching over the universe and now he prefers to "fight his war" using Abdel Aziz Rantisi, former Sheikh Ahmed Yassin and palestinian women and teenagers who have strapped 25 kilos of explosive around their chests.;)

[zenith-nadir]

Herein lies the irony.

Hamas leader Abdel Aziz Rantisi said "God declared war against America, Bush and Sharon", not Hamas.

BUT, Hamas leader Abdel Aziz Rantisi is smart and is declaring war using god. He is covering his ass because when a Hamas suicide bomber attacks it will be "the will of god". See the peversion? Abdel Aziz Rantisi is no better than Bin Laden or any other religious zealot who invokes gods name to kill humans.

[a_unique_person]

Faith Based War? Rings a bell.

[geni]

And you think this is the most imprtant news from israel/palistine today?

[zenith-nadir]

Originally posted by geni
And you think this is the most imprtant news from israel/palistine today? When the leader of a palestinian terrorist organization declares war on Israel and the USA by invoking god's name I think it is newsworthy. Unless you support the peversion of Islam by Hamas leader Abdel Aziz Rantisi to declare wars Geni. Then I could see not wanting to talk about it.

[Badger]

Originally posted by zenith-nadir
Herein lies the irony.

Hamas leader Abdel Aziz Rantisi said "God declared war against America, Bush and Sharon", not Hamas.

BUT, Hamas leader Abdel Aziz Rantisi is smart and is declaring war using god. He is covering his ass because when a Hamas suicide bomber attacks it will be "the will of god". See the peversion? Abdel Aziz Rantisi is no better than Bin Laden or any other religious zealot who invokes gods name to kill humans.

Waitaminnit here!

Is this guy saying God needs his help? Is he second-guessing the ominpotence of his supreme being? Does he think that a few puny humans splattering themselves against small groups of other puny humans is MORE than what God could do?

Isn't that like blasphemy or something?

[zenith-nadir]

Originally posted by Badger
Waitaminnit here! Is this guy saying God needs his help? Is he second-guessing the ominpotence of his supreme being? Does he think that a few puny humans splattering themselves against small groups of other puny humans is MORE than what God could do?Isn't that like blasphemy or something? I agree. Who is Hamas leader Abdel Aziz Rantisi to say god can't fight his own fights? I mean god can turn water into blood, or create vast swarms of gnats or create festering boils on people and animals or cover Israel and America in locusts....who needs Abdel Aziz Rantisi and the Hamas. ;)




http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20040328/lthumb.kcf10103281232.mideast_israel_palestinians_ kcf101.jpg
Hello little one, soon you will be ready to martyr yourself for me, Hamas and god

[geni]

Originally posted by zenith-nadir
When the leader of a palestinian terrorist organization declares war on Israel and the USA by invoking god's name I think it is newsworthy. Unless you support the peversion of Islam by Hamas leader Abdel Aziz Rantisi to declare wars Geni. Then I could see not wanting to talk about it.


Err haven't they been doing that for the last decade?
btw the way Abdel Aziz Rantisi isn't the hamas leader.
The name you are looking for is Khaled Meshaal.

Personly I find the news that the leader of a country the probably has more nulcear wepons than mine looks like they may be forced to resign slightly more significant. Particulary as I dan't have a clue about who is likely to replace him.

[The Fool]

Originally posted by zenith-nadir
Abdel Aziz Rantisi is no better than Bin Laden or any other religious zealot who invokes gods name to kill humans.

“With the might of God on our side we will triumph over Iraq. God will watch over our troops and grant us a victory over the threat of Saddam’s army. God will bless us and keep us safe in the coming battle.”
George W Bush.

[zenith-nadir]

Originally posted by geni
Personly I find the news that the leader of a country the probably has more nulcear wepons than mine looks like they may be forced to resign slightly more significant. Particulary as I dan't have a clue about who is likely to replace him. Well see in Israel they have the rule of law, a democratic government and a functioning court system. So I am not too worried if Ariel Sharon is indicted for taking bribes. The government will not collapse, the court system will prosecute him and the law will be upheld. And don't loose any sleep over the 'nuclear weapons', Israel will not launch nuclear weapons if Sharon is forced to resign.

Meanwhile when the leader of HAMAS declares war on America and Israel and invokes the name of god to justify his war I think that situation is far more dangeous and far more harmful to palestinians and Islam than Sharon's bribery scandal.




Originally posted by The Fool
“With the might of God on our side we will triumph over Iraq. God will watch over our troops and grant us a victory over the threat of Saddam’s army. God will bless us and keep us safe in the coming battle.” George W Bush. Source? F.Y.I. there is a difference between saying "god is on our side and will bless us and keep us safe" and saying "God has declared war"....how does the leader of HAMAS "know" god has declared war?

[Ed]

Well, it seems that when God chooses to get involved it is primarily to bitch slap moslems. Aside from their notable lack of success on the battlefield, we cannot forget those pesky earthquakes.

[geni]

Originally posted by zenith-nadir
Well see in Israel they have the rule of law, a democratic government and a functioning court system. So I am not too worried if Ariel Sharon is indicted for taking bribes. The government will not collapse, the court system will prosecute him and the law will be upheld. And don't loose any sleep over the 'nuclear weapons', Israel will not launch nuclear weapons if Sharon is forced to resign.

Are you more worried by what happens to the indian leadership or say the brazilian leader ship?

Meanwhile when the leader of HAMAS declares war on America and Israel and invokes the name of god to justify his war I think that situation is far more dangeous and far more harmful to palestinians and Islam than Sharon's bribery scandal. [/B]

You sure that they didn't do that years ago? Anyway I can't find anything aboutthis guy (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3563635.stm) doing what you describe.

[zenith-nadir]

Originally posted by geni
Are you more worried by what happens to the indian leadership or say the brazilian leader ship?

I am worried about one thing. Twisted motherf**kers like Hamas leader Abdel Aziz Rantisi, (Hamas names interim leader in Gaza (http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/03/23/yassin/)), using religion to declare a war to kill palestinians and jews.

Here are some other things I worry about;

The lie that Hamas does not "use" or "indoctrinate" children:

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20040326/lthumb.jrl11303262311.mideast_israel_palestinians_ jrl113.jpg
Masked Palestinian boys wearing a fake explosive belt and one of them holding a real handgun participate in a memorial organized by Hamas for the late Hamas spiritual leader Sheik Ahmed Yassin, on the poster at left, Friday March 26, 2004.(AP Photo/Nasser Ishtayeh)


http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20040326/lthumb.kcf10803262309.mideast_israel_palestinians_ kcf108.jpg
Palestinian youths carry a picture of the late Hamas spiritual leader Sheik Ahmed Yassin as they march during a demonstration in Gaza City, Friday, March 26, 2004. (AP Photo/Kevin Frayer)

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20040326/lthumb.mdf507845.jpg
A Palestinian boy rides his tricycle past Hamas graffiti in Jabalya refugee camp in the Gaza Strip March 26, 2004. (Mohammed Salem/Reuters)

[a_unique_person]

Hi ZN, I've got some happy snaps from my holiday, too.

http://staff.science.uva.nl/~grunberg/photos/dec-2002/pics/hebron-graffiti4.jpg

http://staff.science.uva.nl/~grunberg/photos/dec-2002/pics/hebron-graffiti1.jpg


edited from image to link because of language. It's probably not an issue, but I'm just playing it safe.

[zenith-nadir]

Originally posted by a_unique_person
Hi ZN, I've got some happy snaps from my holiday, too.



WOW A_U_P I am 'stunned'. Are you saying the graffitti, (which you have no idea who wrote, where they were written, or how long ago they were written), is the same as the Hamas exploiting palestinian children and indoctrinating palestinian children as soldiers and dressing them up in bomb vests and guns at a Hamas rally on Friday March 26th 2004?

Is that your point?

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by zenith-nadir



WOW A_U_P I am 'stunned'. Are you saying the graffitti, (which you have no idea who wrote, where they are written, or how long ago they were written), is the same as palestinian boys wearing bomb vests and carrying guns at a Hamas rally on Friday March 26th 2004?

Is that your point?

I am seriously saying that there is plenty of racist hatred from some Israelis towards Palestinians, which often has lethal results. I just thought it may have slipped your attention. The phrase "sand n*****" is not used on this board, but I get the impression that there are sections of the US and Israel that use it pretty freely.

Stop making this whole freakin disaster to be something the Palestinians have cooked up all by themselves. It is a totally absurd position to take. You can read up you book of "One Million and One Facts about why you should hate Palestinians", it won't help the cause of peace on iota, because all it does is look purely at one side of the equation.


edited for language

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by zenith-nadir



WOW A_U_P I am 'stunned'. Are you saying the graffitti, (which you have no idea who wrote, where they were written, or how long ago they were written), is the same as the Hamas exploiting palestinian children and indoctrinating palestinian children as soldiers and dressing them up in bomb vests and guns at a Hamas rally on Friday March 26th 2004?

Is that your point?

I have no idea who wrote the graffiti you have pictures of.

[Skeptic]

AUP's images are from the Netherlands. AUP is claiming that the two events are equivalent.

Apparently, then, the Dutch had:

1). Declared themselves "holy land where no infidel Muslims must step"

2). Decided that "God declared war on the Muslims"

3). Teach their children in school how all Muslims are "the sons of pigs and dogs" and that any christian who kills them goes straight to heaven to be with 72 virgins;

4). Send children to summer camps named after the Dutch suicide bombers who kill the most Muslims;

etc., etc., etc.

Gee, who would have guessed?

Not that I'm shocked; it is, of course, perfectly justifiable from the Dutch to act this way as long as they first say the magic words:

"it's a war of liberation against coloniamlism!!!"

Right, AUP?

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Skeptic
AUP's images are from the Netherlands. AUP is claiming that the two events are equivalent.

Apparently, then, the Dutch had:

1). Declared themselves "holy land where no infidel Muslims must step"

2). Decided that "God declared war on the Muslims"

3). Teach their children in school how all Muslims are "the sons of pigs and dogs" and that any christian who kills them goes straight to heaven to be with 72 virgins;

4). Send children to summer camps named after the Dutch suicide bombers who kill the most Muslims;

etc., etc., etc.

Gee, who would have guessed?

Not that I'm shocked; it is, of course, perfectly justifiable from the Dutch to act this way as long as they first say the magic words:

"it's a war of liberation against coloniamlism!!!"

Right, AUP?

Idiot. They are from a person from the netherlands who went to Palestine and took the pictures there.

[a_unique_person]

http://www.bobmay.info/images/settlers/bothgunmen.jpg

Armed Isreali settlers calmly threaten xian family for plowing their own land.

http://www.bobmay.info/images/settlers/plowing.jpg

[a_unique_person]

http://www.rememberthesechildren.org/remember2003.html

{snip} Edited to conform with forum copyright rules


Last updated March 22, 2004 TOTALS SINCE SEPT 2000:
Israelis: 106

TOTALS FOR 2003:
Israelis: 22
TOTALS SINCE SEPT 2000:
Palestinians: 528

TOTALS FOR 2003:
Palestinians: 122

2000 | 2001 | 2002 | 2003 | 2004 | 2005? 3.29.04

[a_unique_person]

A Palestinian Father cradles his dead baby.

http://www.palestinemonitor.org/gallery/baby_alien.jpg

Notice the look of pleasure on his face because his child is dead. What sort of animals are these people?

[Upchurch]

I understand that you feel pationate about this topic, AUP, but please refrain from breaking forum rules. Thanks.

[zenith-nadir]

I am still waititng for you to address the explotation of children by Hamas A_U_P. So far you have avoided the topic entirely and have posted nothing but irrelevant pictures.

It is folks like you A_U_P that I feel are the palestinians worst nightmare, even worse than Israelis, folks like you turn a blind eye to child explotation and the abuse/peversion of Islam.

[Skeptic]

They are from a person from the netherlands who went to Palestine...

Obviously, AUP can't even get himself to SAY "israel" unless it's to blame it for something.

[KelvinG]

Originally posted by zenith-nadir

Source? F.Y.I. there is a difference between saying "god is on our side and will bless us and keep us safe" and saying "God has declared war"....how does the leader of HAMAS "know" god has declared war?

I don't think there is much of a differentce. How does GWB know that God is on "our" side?

Both quotes sound like dangerous religious zealotism to me.

[zenith-nadir]

Originally posted by KelvinG
I don't think there is much of a differentce. How does GWB know that God is on "our" side? Both quotes sound like dangerous religious zealotism to me. I agree. I find it really creepy when people invoke "god's will" or "god's word". Especially when it involves violence.

But when Hamas leader Abdel Aziz Rantisi says "god has declared war" it is inciting and validating jihad amongst the members of Hamas. Any muslim worth his salt should be offended that Hamas leader Abdel Aziz Rantisi is speaking for "the most kind, the most merciful all mighty Allah".

[aerocontrols]

Dear God:

Don't start something you can't finish.

Love,

America

[aerocontrols]

Originally posted by The Fool


“With the might of God on our side we will triumph over Iraq. God will watch over our troops and grant us a victory over the threat of Saddam’s army. God will bless us and keep us safe in the coming battle.”
George W Bush.


I think you're giving too much credit to woo-woo web sites here, Fool.

When/where did Bush say this?

MattJ

[Bjorn]

Originally posted by aerocontrols
I think you're giving too much credit to woo-woo web sites here, Fool.

When/where did Bush say this?

MattJ I doubt he ever did. It's usually claimed to be from a State of the Union Address, but that's not true.

On the other hand, I won't be surprised if he says it any day ..... :(

[aerocontrols]

Originally posted by Bjorn
I doubt he ever did. It's usually claimed to be from a State of the Union Address, but that's not true.

Even still, I hold out hope that Fool will respond by telling us from where he copy/pasted it. If nothing else, it will let us know yet another source of information that is untrustworthy.


Originally posted by Bjorn
On the other hand, I won't be surprised if he says it any day ..... :(

I would be amazed if he had said that quite frankly. I would be yet more amazed if he had said that and outrage hadn't appeared on the front page of nearly every newspaper in the world.

MattJ

[zenith-nadir]

1) The Israeli-Palestinian Interm Agreement on the West Bank and Gaza Strip - 1995 - REAFFIRMING their mutual commitment to act, in accordance with this Agreement, immediately, efficiently and effectively against acts or threats of terrorism, violence or incitement, whether committed by Palestinians or Israelis;

2) The Oslo 2 Agreement - 1995 -(Article XXII) Israel and the PA "shall seek to foster mutual understanding and tolerance and shall accordingly abstain from incitement, including hostile propaganda, against each other and, without derogating from the principle of freedom of expression, shall take legal measures to prevent such incitement by any organizations, groups or individuals within their jurisdiction."

3) The Wye River Memorandum - 1998 -
Article II (A) (3) the Palestinian side will issue a decree prohibiting all forms of incitement to violence or terror, and establishing mechanisms for acting systematically against all expressions or threats of violence or terror."

4) The Sharm el-Sheikh Memorandum - 1999 - 8. (a) The two Sides will, in accordance with the prior agreements, act to ensure the immediate, efficient and effective handling of any incident involving a threat or act of terrorism, violence or incitement, whether committed by Palestinians or Israelis. To this end, they will cooperate in the exchange of information and coordinate policies and activities. Each side shall immediately and effectively respond to the occurrence or anticipated occurrence of an act of terrorism, violence or incitement and shall take all necessary measures to prevent such an occurrence;

5) President Bush Calls for New Palestinian Leadership - June 2002 (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/06/20020624-3.html) I've said in the past that nations are either with us or against us in the war on terror. To be counted on the side of peace, nations must act. Every leader actually committed to peace will end incitement to violence in official media, and publicly denounce homicide bombings. Every nation actually committed to peace will stop the flow of money, equipment and recruits to terrorist groups seeking the destruction of Israel -- including Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and Hezbollah. Today, Palestinian authorities are encouraging, not opposing, terrorism. This is unacceptable. And the United States will not support the establishment of a Palestinian state until its leaders engage in a sustained fight against the terrorists and dismantle their infrastructure.

6) Interview With Saeb Erakat - June 1, 2003 (http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0306/01/sm.10.html)

ERAKAT: The offset of the road map, there are two communiques that supposed to be issued by the Israeli government and the Palestinian Authority. The Palestinian Authority must reiterate its recognition of the Israeli's steps, must call to end all violence against Israelis anywhere, and stop incitement against Israel. The same thing at the same hour, the Israeli government must issue a statement recognizing an independent Palestinian state, declaring an end to violence against all Palestinians anywhere, and stopping incitement. Then after that, the road map has been negotiated.


7) New Hamas Chief: Bush Is 'Enemy of God' Sun Mar 28 2004 (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&ncid=736&e=1&u=/ap/20040328/ap_on_re_mi_ea/hamas_bush)In a speech at Gaza's Islamic University the new leader of the militant group Hamas on Sunday called President Bush the enemy of Islam and said that "God declared war" against Bush, the United States and Israel.

"We knew that Bush is the enemy of God, the enemy of Islam and Muslims. America declared war against God. Sharon declared war against God and God declared war against America, Bush and Sharon," Rantisi said. "The war of God continues against them and I can see the victory coming up from the land of Palestine by the hand of Hamas."



http://www.honestreporting.com/images/arafatkiss.jpg
Incitement?....what incitement? ;)

[Bjorn]

Originally posted by aerocontrols
I would be amazed if he had said that quite frankly. I would be yet more amazed if he had said that and outrage hadn't appeared on the front page of nearly every newspaper in the world.

MattJ I grew up in Norway, where they have a state sponsored religion - and almost never heard a politician mentioning God.

I move to the US, where we supposedly don't mix state and religion, and politicians 'Thank God' all the time. :p

Maybe that's why I wouldn't have been surprised. (BTW, I think he said something like 'in tragedy God is near' already.)

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by a_unique_person
Stop making this whole freakin disaster to be something the Palestinians have cooked up all by themselves. It is a totally absurd position to take. You can read up you book of "One Million and One Facts about why you should hate Palestinians", it won't help the cause of peace on iota, because all it does is look purely at one side of the equation.


:dl:

Stop making this whole freakin disaster to be something the Israelis have cooked up all by themselves. It is a totally absurd position to take. You can read up you book of "One Million and One Facts about why you should hate Israel", it won't help the cause of peace on iota, because all it does is look purely at one side of the equation.

[Dorian Gray]

So God is on America's side, but Allah is on the Arabs' side, and the Jews are God's chosen people, and God is really the same as Allah, so God is in a three-sided war with himself?

Man am I glad God doesn't exist, or things could get really confusing.

What we should do is invade Israel and Palestine and force all occupants to relocate to islands in the South Pacific. Then, sink those islands.

[aerocontrols]

Originally posted by Bjorn
I grew up in Norway, where they have a state sponsored religion - and almost never heard a politician mentioning God.

I move to the US, where we supposedly don't mix state and religion, and politicians 'Thank God' all the time. :p

Maybe that's why I wouldn't have been surprised. (BTW, I think he said something like 'in tragedy God is near' already.)

I don't think that saying "Thank God" or "God Bless America" is mixing state and religion. Nevertheless, Bush is a very religious person, publically the most religious president we've had in a long time.

This is as close as Bush has gotten to the quote Fool gives, I believe

2001 SOTU:

Freedom and fear, justice and cruelty, have always been at war, and we know that God is not neutral between them.

2003 SOTU:

Americans are a free people, who know that freedom is the right of every person and the future of every nation. The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity.

We Americans have faith in ourselves, but not in ourselves alone. We do not know -- we do not claim to know all the ways of Providence, yet we can trust in them, placing our confidence in the loving God behind all of life, and all of history.

May He guide us now. And may God continue to bless the United States of America.

One problem with Fool's quote is that it take's the name of God in vain: God is for us, and against someone else, rather than God is for this idea, and against that other idea. It also says what side God will take, rather than simply talking about the nature of God.

The other problem is that the quote has Bush talking about a war 'against Iraq'. Bush has been very careful, I believe, about framing the various conflicts against the Taliban and Al Qaeda, or Saddam and the Baath Party. Generally, only opponents of the war call it a war against Iraq or against Afghanistan.

MattJ

[WildCat]

Originally posted by The Fool


“With the might of God on our side we will triumph over Iraq. God will watch over our troops and grant us a victory over the threat of Saddam’s army. God will bless us and keep us safe in the coming battle.”
George W Bush.
I've searched Google for this phrase, all hits are various leftist sites claiming that Bush said this in a state of the union speech. I have searched all of Bush's SOTU speeches and cannot find it anywhere.

The "quote" is pure BS, made up by an unknown party to spread misinformation. And Fool, you bought it hook, line, and sinker.

[Skeptic]

Originally posted by The Fool


“With the might of God on our side we will triumph over Iraq. God will watch over our troops and grant us a victory over the threat of Saddam’s army. God will bless us and keep us safe in the coming battle.”
George W Bush.

No, he didn't. The quote is made up. As usual, you fell for it.

And, in any rate, even if it WAS a real quote, there's a bit of a difference than "God watch over our troops" to "God declared war on the infidel Americans".

[corplinx]

Remember the lame excuse that Iraq's sponsorship of palestinian terror doesn't fit into the US war on terror because folks like Hamas haven't attacked us _yet_?

I think that excuse just got lamer.....

[zenith-nadir]

Originally posted by corplinx
Remember the lame excuse that Iraq's sponsorship of palestinian terror doesn't fit into the US war on terror because folks like Hamas haven't attacked us _yet_?Not true. Hamas has killed Americans.

1) September 9, 2003 - Hamas suicide bombing at a cafe in Jerusalem. Two Americans killed. David Applebaum, 51, and his daughter Nava, 20.

2) August 19, 2003 - Hamas suicide bombing on bus in Jerusalem. Five Americans killed. Goldie Taubenfeld, 43, Shmuel Taubenfeld, 3 months, Mordechai Reinitz, 49; Yitzhak Reinitz, 9, Tehilla Nathanson, 3.

3) July 31 2002 - Hamas package bomb in lunchtime cafeteria at Hebrew University. Five Americans killed. Janis Ruth Coulter, 36, Marla Bennet, 24, David Gritz, 24, Benjamin Blutstein, 25, and Dina Carter, 37.

4) March 27, 2002 - Hamas suicide bombing at Passover seder at Park Hotel. One American killed. Hannah Rogen, 90.

5) August 9, 2001 - Hamas suicide bombing at Sbarro's pizzeria. Two Americans killed. Judith L. Greenbaum, 31, Malka Roth, 15.



That is why Yassin and Hamas are so dangerous. Israelis are not their only victims, 14 Americans, from 3 months old to 90 years old, have been killed in Hamas attacks.

[corplinx]

[i]


That is why Yassin and Hamas are so dangerous. Israelis are not their only victims, 14 Americans, from 3 months old to 90 years old, have been killed in Hamas attacks. [/B]

Yes, but the attacks weren't meant to kill Americans.

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by zenith-nadir
I agree. I find it really creepy when people invoke "god's will" or "god's word". Especially when it involves violence.

But when Hamas leader Abdel Aziz Rantisi says "god has declared war" it is inciting and validating jihad amongst the members of Hamas. Any muslim worth his salt should be offended that Hamas leader Abdel Aziz Rantisi is speaking for "the most kind, the most merciful all mighty Allah".

This from the man who has at least twice used the bible as an authority.

[Ed]

Originally posted by corplinx


Yes, but the attacks weren't meant to kill Americans.

So they were meant to kill...........?

Children?

[zenith-nadir]

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20040325/lthumb.sge.bfu79.250304083218.photo00.default-384x287.jpg
http://www.betar.co.uk/articles/pictures/hamas_with_child.jpg
http://theshredder.com/pix/sch_hamas.jpg
http://www.mpacuk.org/mpac/data/a8faeeb0/t1.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39188000/jpg/_39188941_hamas-afp-300x245.jpg
http://www.atour.com/news/international/images/20010914a.jpg





http://www.palestinehistory.com/image/erakat.jpg
I triple guarantee you, Hamas does not exploit children, that is nothing but a Zionist lie!"

[Ed]

I suppose if you are a child murderer and encourage child suicide lieing isn't a biggie.

[Skeptic]

Not true. Hamas has killed Americans.

But they were jews; that doesn't count.

[zenith-nadir]

Originally posted by Ed
I suppose if you are a child murderer and encourage child suicide lieing isn't a biggie.

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2002/06/26/erekat.jpg
"We have 1,600 missing men in Jenin. Mostly women and children, husbands and wives . . .
How many people were massacred? We say the number will not be less than 500."


;)

[a_unique_person]

Abbas said that at Aqaba, Bush promised to speak with Sharon about the siege on Arafat. He said nobody can speak to or pressure Sharon except the Americans.

According to Abbas, immediately thereafter Bush said: "God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them."




http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=310788&contrassID=2&subContrassID=1&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by a_unique_person
This from the man who has at least twice used the bible as an authority.

So have I.

If you want to talk about biblical stories, people and places, then the Bible is a perfectly valid authority.

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Mycroft


So have I.

If you want to talk about biblical stories, people and places, then the Bible is a perfectly valid authority.

LOL. It's not the first of April yet, though.

[Skeptic]

Abbas said that at Aqaba...

This is the same Abbas that claimed israel committed a "genocide" of hundreds of people in Jenin, right?

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by Mycroft


So have I.

If you want to talk about biblical stories, people and places, then the Bible is a perfectly valid authority.

And Herodotus was a reliable source during the Persian war.

[The Fool]

Originally posted by WildCat

I've searched Google for this phrase, all hits are various leftist sites claiming that Bush said this in a state of the union speech. I have searched all of Bush's SOTU speeches and cannot find it anywhere.

The "quote" is pure BS, made up by an unknown party to spread misinformation. And Fool, you bought it hook, line, and sinker.
I fear you are correct. I got the quote from an article attributed to a bbc journalist, a Mr Mike Wooldridge BBC World Affairs Correspondent. This guy does exist but I agree that the quote smells funny. When Matt called it into question I searched bush's state of the unions and it does not appear to be there.

So until further notice...just call me Mr hook line and sinker.

In my defence I went on a quick search for a Bush quote about god being on his side and this quote in an article attributed to a BBC chappy jumped out at me. I guess you can never be too careful with the Bush quote industry. But anyway I don't know anyone that would deny Bush believes God is on his side which was the point I was demonstrating (anyone interested in disputing that?)...As an Athiest I am scared by all people in positions of power over the fate of others that draw authority from a god.

[Bjorn]

Originally posted by Mr hook line and sinker
I fear you are correct. I got the quote from an article attributed to a bbc journalist, a Mr Mike Wooldridge BBC World Affairs Correspondent. This guy does exist but I agree that the quote smells funny. When Matt called it into question I searched bush's state of the unions and it does not appear to be there.I could easily have done the same, I must admit I, for instance, never check the Bible to see if some quote from there is correct. :p

But to see someone admitting to be wrong on JREF!!!

[The Fool]

Originally posted by Bjorn
I could easily have done the same, I must admit I, for instance, never check the Bible to see if some quote from there is correct. :p

But to see someone admitting to be wrong on JREF!!!

I'm not sure if Mr Woolridge also swallowed a suspect quote or if the article itself is sus and they have used a BBC jounalists name to add credibility to it....I'm still investigating...

Edited to add:
here is the original article by Mr Woolridge.http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/wtwtgod/3513709.stm

Guess what....the bush quote he uses is different... The one he actually used was..
"Behind all of life and all of history, there's a dedication and purpose, set by the hand of a just and faithful God."

looks like the quote was substituted in between the bbc site and the article appearing on the news archive I got it off....I call for capital punishment of all those responsible....me excluded of course.

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Skeptic
Abbas said that at Aqaba...

This is the same Abbas that claimed israel committed a "genocide" of hundreds of people in Jenin, right?

He is the guy who quit on principal because Arafat would not let him rule and he wouldn't hang around just to be a puppet. Jenin was a disaster for the people who lived there. It looked like a bomb hit it. I suppose the people who did die don't count.

[WildCat]

Originally posted by The Fool
my defence I went on a quick search for a Bush quote about god being on his side and this quote in an article attributed to a BBC chappy jumped out at me. I guess you can never be too careful with the Bush quote industry. But anyway I don't know anyone that would deny Bush believes God is on his side which was the point I was demonstrating (anyone interested in disputing that?)...As an Athiest I am scared by all people in positions of power over the fate of others that draw authority from a god.
It is plausible that Bush believes God is on his side, but I don't think he'd ever say it.

I'm also uncomfortable w/ the frequent refernces to God that Bush makes, but it's not much different than most President's have done. For example, the end of Clinton's 2000 SOTU address: (http://clinton4.nara.gov/textonly/WH/SOTU00/sotu-text.html)
Thank you, God bless you, and God bless America.

[zenith-nadir]

http://images.scotsman.com/2004/03/29/2903turnb.jpg





http://www.islamonline.net/English/News/2002-08/15/images/pic04.jpg
Hamas does not exploit childen, the American zionist-controlled press is all about lies! All they tell is lies, lies and more lies!"

[hawkins_anderson]

Can't we all just get along? Just for once??????

[Skeptic]

This is the same Abbas that claimed israel committed a "genocide" of hundreds of people in , right?

He is the guy who quit on principal because Arafat would not let him rule and he wouldn't hang around just to be a puppet.

But... why is that a problem? Arafat "bent over for peace", didn't he? Why should the peace-loving Abbas quit just because the peace-loving Arafat rules? Just to spite?

Jenin was a disaster for the people who lived there.

Well, they should have thought of that BEFORE they sent literally hundreds of suicide bombers out of the town into israel from there, of which dozens succeeded in their mission.

It looked like a bomb hit it.

Really???

A town where intense house-to-house fighting occured looked "like a bomb hit it"???

I'm shocked--SHOCKED!--I tell ya'.

I suppose the people who did die don't count.

Only 30-40 Palestinians were killed in Jenin--mostly armed men during the fight. And you're quite right: I don't think killing armed terror-- er, I mean, "freedom fighters"--that are shooting at the troops "count" against israel, morally speaking.

But for all your bluster and rhetoric, you don't answer the simple question I asked you. So, AUP, once more: when Abbas claimed that israel committed a "genocide" of "hundred" in Jenin--knowing full well this was a lie, as the real "body count" was about 30-40, mostly armed men--was he lying or not?

If so, why should you believe him now in his claims that the PA "doesn't exploit children"? (Apart from the rather obvious independent evidence that it does, e.g., child suicide bombers, summer camps named after suicide bombers, "Seasame Street" featuring a five-year old wishing to become a suicide bomber, etc., that is.)

It's a simple question, really.

[Tony]

Do'cha just love the religion of peace?

[zenith-nadir]

from: Palestinians Back Down From U.S. Threats - Tue, Mar 30, 2004 (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&ncid=736&e=5&u=/ap/20040330/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians)


GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip - A Palestinian militant group warned an American delegation Tuesday not to visit the Palestinian territories, accusing the United States of bias in favor of Israel. Hours later, some group members backed down from the veiled threats.

The American diplomatic delegation is scheduled to arrive in the region Wednesday to hear more about the withdrawal plan. The team consists of Assistant Secretary of State William J. Burns, National Security Council Deputy Director Stephen J. Hadley and the council's Mideast specialist, Elliott Abrams. It is their third trip to the area since February.

In Gaza, the Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades a violent group linked to Yasser Arafat's Fatah faction issued a statement saying the delegation was banned from Palestinian areas. "This visit is rejected completely, and the American administration will not like the circumstances of such a visit," it said. Hours later, however, Al Aqsa leaders softened the statement, saying there were no plans to harm the diplomats.

U.S. Embassy spokesman Paul Patin said he did not believe the American delegation planned to enter the West Bank or Gaza, but "clearly our security people will be interested in this (threat)."

On Tuesday, a group of prominent Palestinians rejected recent calls by intellectuals and moderates to give up the violence, saying the campaign was justified as long as Israel occupies Palestinian land. Their leaflet was widely distributed in the West Bank.Amazing and sad that the terror groups now dictate policy in the West Bank and Gaza.

[zenith-nadir]

Interesting Op-Ed : Stop Using Children - Tuesday, March 30, 2004 (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A34678-2004Mar29.html)

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20040330/lthumb.sge.cwg63.300304163113.photo00.default-259x384.jpg

If there is such a thing as a citizen's arrest, then there ought to be such a thing as a citizen's U.N. resolution. That being the case -- columnists can make anything the case -- I propose a resolution condemning the Palestinian Authority, Hamas and Islamic Jihad for using naive and addled children as suicide bombers. I am waiting for France, Spain, Russia and other European governments to sign it.

It is child abuse combined with murder. Yet the United Nations says nothing. It would not even mention terrorism in its proposed condemnation of Israel for the murder of Yassin.

So, I offer my own U.N. resolution. I want the United Nations to condemn Palestinian terrorism, specifically suicide bombers and, most specifically, the use of confused and sad kids for that purpose. It's pretty simple: If you cannot condemn the murder of innocents, especially by children, then you have no business condemning anything else.

[E.J.Armstrong]

zenith-nadir

Do you consider yourself to be an unbiased observer of what is happening in the Middle East?

[zenith-nadir]

Originally posted by E.J.Armstrong
zenith-nadir Do you consider yourself to be an unbiased observer of what is happening in the Middle East? That is a fair question which I am happy to answer.

I am biased. I am biased against terrorism used as a political tool.

The palestinians have been used as pawns in the war against Israel. They have had only one ruler in 30 years, Arafat. The Egyptians, ARCH ENEMIES of Israel have made peace. The Jordanians, former ARCH ENEMIES of Israel have made peace. Yet after 30 years of Arafat, no peace.

Is it starting to sink in? Do you see why I blame Arafat and the Palestinian Authority more than Israel who also does really stupid things? Because I know Israel can make peace with it's former enemies, Arafat CANNOT.

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by E.J.Armstrong zenith-nadir

Do you consider yourself to be an unbiased observer of what is happening in the Middle East?

How about you, E.J.? Are you an unbiased observer of what in happening in the Middle East?

[E.J.Armstrong]

originally posted by Mycroft
How about you, E.J.? Are you an unbiased observer of what in happening in the Middle East?

I try to be so.

As you know, I am against all terror, whatever its source and have made that plain on innumerable occasions on this site. My wider family has suffered an innocent death from terrorism and I come from a terrorised land. In that country a peace process of immature standing has been pulled out of the debris of shattered and mutilated bodies on both sides through a process which I believe, rightly or wrongly, has some applicability to the Middle East. I have tried to explain that process and its possible relevance to you previously but Cleopatra was not for listening and urged you not to listen to me nor did you respond.

The peace process I mentioned was initiated by the major power in the area taking hard but lawful decisions. That remains my benchmark.

[E.J.Armstrong]

originally posted by zenith-nadir
I am biased against terrorism used as a political tool.

Then in this area we may actually have some common ground.

One difference between us I think is that I see both some Palestinians and Sharon using terror for political ends.

I abhor all terror and would like to see the removal of all those who have used it. Israel has indeed come to agreements with Egypt with some personal disasters to the people involved in that process and is to be commended for that effort. It takes strong men of peace to stand against the bullies and I see neither Arafat nor Sharon having that strength or will, in fact exactly the opposite.

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by zenith-nadir
That is a fair question which I am happy to answer.

I am biased. I am biased against terrorism used as a political tool.

The palestinians have been used as pawns in the war against Israel. They have had only one ruler in 30 years, Arafat. The Egyptians, ARCH ENEMIES of Israel have made peace. The Jordanians, former ARCH ENEMIES of Israel have made peace. Yet after 30 years of Arafat, no peace.

Is it starting to sink in? Do you see why I blame Arafat and the Palestinian Authority more than Israel who also does really stupid things? Because I know Israel can make peace with it's former enemies, Arafat CANNOT.

After 30 years of military occupation, which is an act of war, no peace. Does this make any sense to you?

[zenith-nadir]

from: Militants Recruit Boy, 15, As Bomber - Tue Mar 30, 2:42 PM ET (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&ncid=736&e=10&u=/ap/20040330/ap_on_re_mi_ea/palestinians_teen_recruit)


NABLUS, West Bank - Islamic militants tried to recruit a 15-year-old as a suicide bomber, at one point locking him in a dark room, but also luring him with clothes, a cell phone and promises of paradise, his family said Tuesday.

The story of ninth-grader Tamer Khweirah, who was rescued by an alert older brother, underscores the growing use of children by militant groups and has stoked debate over what is permissible in the fight against Israel.

Tamer is one of four teens arrested by the Israeli military in Nablus in the past week on suspicion they were recruited by militants. One of them, Hussam Abdo, 16, was caught at an Israeli checkpoint with 18 pounds of explosives strapped to his body.

The Israeli military said Palestinian militants are increasingly targeting youngsters, in part because they arouse less suspicion at Israeli checkpoints.

Tamer was approached by the Islamic Jihad group at a Nablus mosque last week, after Israel assassinated Hamas founder Sheik Ahmed Yassin, said the boy's 26-year-old brother, Raed Khweirah. In the mosque, Tamer and other worshippers were expressing their anger over the assassination, and a 19-year-old Islamic Jihad activist asked the youth whether he wanted to meet a religious leader, or sheik, from the group, Raed Khweirah said his brother told him. Tamer was taken to a home in Nablus' old city, where he met the sheik, who introduced himself only as Ibrahim, Khweirah said. In the first session, the sheik spoke to Tamer about the need to avenge Yassin, whose group Israel blames for suicide bombings that have killed hundreds of Israelis.

In a second encounter, the sheik tried to persuade Tamer to carry out a suicide bombing. He locked Tamer in a dark room for a while, then took him to a well-lit room, saying this illustrated the difference between eternal damnation and paradise. Paradise and 72 virgins are assured for any bomber, the sheik told Tamer, who is from a well-to-do family and, according to his relatives, had a sheltered upbringing.

When the youngster expressed concern that his family home would be demolished — standard Israeli reprisal — the sheik said Islamic Jihad would pay $35,000 to make up for the loss.


http://www.versii.com/image/arafat.jpg
Lies!, lies!, all lies made up by the zionist conspiracy! I assure you!

[zenith-nadir]

More: Brother slams Palestinian militants for luring teenager into suicide mission - Tue Mar 30, 2:49 PM ET (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20040330/wl_mideast_afp/mideast_unrest_040330194945)

NABLUS, West Bank (AFP) - Palestinian militants tried to lure a schoolboy into carrying out a suicide mission by promising him eternal paradise and cash for his family if he blew himself up in Israel, his brother said.

The militants also allegedly promised the teenager they would give his family 50,000 Jordanian dinars (77,700 dollars) if their house was destroyed by the army, a standard response by the Israeli army after a suicide attack.

A man from Ramallah, in the central West Bank, was to accompany Tamer to show him the bombing target. "I wonder how they managed to brainwash him and trap him because we are doing very well financially. We live in a big house and we don't need anything," Raed said.

"We call on the Palestinian Authority to investigate this affair and on Islamic Jihad to reveal who these people are that deceive children, so that we find out whether they really belong to the group.

"We will regard their silence as an admission of guilt," he said.

But Kadher Hazbib, an Islamic Jihad official, told AFP in Gaza City that his group "prohibits all youths under the age of 18 from belonging to its armed branch ... and of carrying out resistance operations." He said he did not rule out the possibility that "collaborators with Israel using this strategy so as to tarnish the image of the resistance."




http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20040331/lthumb.sge.dbn18.310304095914.photo01.default-384x271.jpg
"The zionists are lying every day. They are lying always, and mainly they are lying to their public opinion."

[zenith-nadir]

Just had to repost this guy's lie...er..ah....quote...

But Kadher Hazbib, an Islamic Jihad official, told AFP in Gaza City that his group "prohibits all youths under the age of 18 from belonging to its armed branch ... and of carrying out resistance operations." He said he did not rule out the possibility that "collaborators with Israel using this strategy so as to tarnish the image of the resistance."


Ok...take a deep breath...

from:
The Islamic Jihad is running a summer school - to teach boys the benefits of becoming suicide bombers. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1446003.stm)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1445000/images/_1446003_jihaddrawing300.jpghttp://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1445000/images/_1446003_jihadmarch150.jpg

The Islamic Jihad is running a summer school - to teach boys the benefits of becoming suicide bombers. A new generation of children, Palestinian boys aged between 12 and 15 years old, is growing up amid conflict and violence. The boys are told not only that it is good to kill, but also that it is good to die.

[Beerina]

Originally posted by Badger


Waitaminnit here!

Is this guy saying God needs his help? Is he second-guessing the ominpotence of his supreme being? Does he think that a few puny humans splattering themselves against small groups of other puny humans is MORE than what God could do?

Isn't that like blasphemy or something?


Really! If God wants His political enemies murdered, He should get His hands Dirty, and stop relying on decidedly finite mortals to murder His political enemies.



Oh wait. Murdering your political enemies is morally reprehensible. I guess human morality supercedes that of God. Nevermind!