ET technology lurking among us?

[Anders Lindman]

Aren't we are likely to kill our species off, or at least severely damage and set back our civilization long before the problems with interstellar travel can be solved? Would not intelligent life on other planets likely face similar problems?

The exponential progress is inexorable, to use the same term as Kurzweil. So it will continue. Plus the increasing communication will force humanity to become more ethical.

[Anders Lindman]

Another reason the ET artificial intelligence doesn't interfere too early with our civilization is because then we would become much like the Borgs in Star Trek without our own individuality, creativity and cultures.

On the other hand, if we know, or at least strongly suspect, that the AI is lurking among us here on Earth, it would perhaps be possible to demand some kind of contact with it. :cool:

In the movie Contact when Ellie meets her father after having traveled through a wormhole, then that trick I imagine could easily be done by the AI: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vps2RKg2mzQ Ellie says to her father: "You are not real. None of this is real." And her father replies: "That's my scientist."

[tsig]

Can an AI become evil? Absolutely, yes. Imagine a military defense system that becomes more and more computerized. At first the system only manages certain computational tasks. Then more and more things that before were done by humans are delegated to the computer defense system.

Gradually the tasks taken over by the system become more and more sophisticated and complex. Since the computer defense system is more efficient than humans when carrying out the tasks given to it, there is no turning back.

Soon the computer system becomes an integrated part of real military operations. At first only for managing information. Then later for controlling unmanned aircraft drones. The growth of the computer system is slow at first and then becomes faster and faster as the exponential progress continues.

One defense department develops soldier robots and test studies are done where the robot soldiers are connected to the computer defense system. At this point the computer system has a great deal of artificial algorithms for controlling a wide spectrum of complicated scenarios.

From the start, the system has a shutdown option as a part of the safety requirements for the design. This option becomes practically unusable when a shutdown would bring down vital functions in the overall military defense preparedness.

As time goes by the computer system becomes massively distributed, and the shutdown option is no longer possible. The system is upgraded with a learning capacity and starts gathering knowledge and improvements at an accelerating rate.

At T-day, the system stops responding to orders from the military chain of command.

WHOPPER is that you?

[Anders Lindman]

WHOPPER is that you?

You mean if I wrote it. Yes. Pretty cool, eh? :)

[Gawdzilla]

Do you want me to believe some random article on the Web and at the same time have me believe the FBI posts hoaxes on their website? :confused:

Anders, you have to READ the material. Get help, we'll be here.

[Gawdzilla]

Anders, we've done this one already: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=205893

[Anders Lindman]

Anders, we've done this one already: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=205893

One debunking from that thread:

"UFO researcher Linda Moulton Howe described a secret FBI memo from March 22nd, 1950, written to J. Edgar Hoover himself. Memo author Guy Hottel, of SAC, described an investigator's report of a flying saucer recovery in New Mexico, with mention of three saucers, three-foot tall bodies, metallic cloth, and bandaged alien bodies. The crash was supposedly due to interference from high-powered radar. But all of these elements (saucers, aliens, cloth and tape, radar site) have been firmly traced to the yarns spun by our two swindlers! William Moore even traced how the story got from Silas Newton to J. Edgar Hoover: Newton told George Koehler (employed at radio station KMYR in Denver), who told Morley Davies, who told Ford dealers Murphy and van Horn, who told auto dealer ****, who told the editor of the Kansas City Wyandotte Echo. By that time, Koehler had become "Coulter," just like a game of "gossip" (or a game of "pi")! This article was picked up in the news, where it caught the interest of the OSI. The OSI agent passed the story on to Guy Hottel of the FBI, and he gave the 8th-hand story to Hoover."

From: http://www.nmsr.org/aztec.htm

So the OSI agent reported an 8th-hand story? Is there any more solid evidence for this? I have sent an email to the FBI and asked them if the memo is based on a hoax. :D

[Captain_Swoop]

"Blasting, billowing, bursting forth, with the power of ten billion butterfly sneezes, man with his flaming fire has conquered the wayward breezes, and found true peace at last."

'Climbing to tranquility
Far above the cloud
Conceiving the heavens
Clear of misty shroud'

[Gawdzilla]

One debunking from that thread:

"UFO researcher Linda Moulton Howe described a secret FBI memo from March 22nd, 1950, written to J. Edgar Hoover himself. Memo author Guy Hottel, of SAC, described an investigator's report of a flying saucer recovery in New Mexico, with mention of three saucers, three-foot tall bodies, metallic cloth, and bandaged alien bodies. The crash was supposedly due to interference from high-powered radar. But all of these elements (saucers, aliens, cloth and tape, radar site) have been firmly traced to the yarns spun by our two swindlers! William Moore even traced how the story got from Silas Newton to J. Edgar Hoover: Newton told George Koehler (employed at radio station KMYR in Denver), who told Morley Davies, who told Ford dealers Murphy and van Horn, who told auto dealer ****, who told the editor of the Kansas City Wyandotte Echo. By that time, Koehler had become "Coulter," just like a game of "gossip" (or a game of "pi")! This article was picked up in the news, where it caught the interest of the OSI. The OSI agent passed the story on to Guy Hottel of the FBI, and he gave the 8th-hand story to Hoover."

From: http://www.nmsr.org/aztec.htm

So the OSI agent reported an 8th-hand story? Is there any more solid evidence for this? I have sent an email to the FBI and asked them if the memo is based on a hoax. :D

You haven't read the thread, have you? That matter is handled. Read for comprehension. Just once, okay?

[Anders Lindman]

You haven't read the thread, have you? That matter is handled. Read for comprehension. Just once, okay?

Now I have skimmed through the entire thread. I found another debunking source: http://www.livescience.com/13653-ufo-alien-roswell-fbi-memo.html

But that too fails to provide credible sources.

[Captain_Swoop]

Whereas the recesses of your brain are a credible source?

[Anders Lindman]

Whereas the recesses of your brain are a credible source?

There are articles on the web that say that the FBI memo is based on a hoax. I want to see more credible sources for those claims. Maybe it's difficult to get sources. Still, that's needed imo.

[Anders Lindman]

To jump the gun, if we assume that ETs are here then if that would be made officially known, then people would start to demand answers, and soon after that they would demand fancy technology!

I think that's a good thing. Because if we can get access to ET technology we would be able to catapult our own technological development. And hopefully reach a technological singularity in 2012 (to match the Mayan long count ;)).

People would have huge demands, but the government(s) could put a limit to what would be available to the public out of national security, so that a gradual and safe integration of the technology can be made.

[Anders Lindman]

Then what about people who claim they already have had contact with ETs? I suspect most of those stories are delusions. Some could be real. And some could even be human black op projects who pretend to be space aliens. Especially things like alien abductions and cattle mutilations could be black op projects, some kind of shadowy military industrial complex doings.

And UFO sightings can be either human black op technology or real ET technology. Real ETs hardly fly around in claustrophobic and uncomfortable UFOs, but AI droids like the Greys can easily and tirelessly do such things.

[Gawdzilla]

Now I have skimmed through the entire thread. I found another debunking source: http://www.livescience.com/13653-ufo-alien-roswell-fbi-memo.html

But that too fails to provide credible sources.

If you refuse to read the material, that's fine. My posts are about your posts, not posts to you. They're for the peanut gallery.

[Gawdzilla]

There are articles on the web that say that the FBI memo is based on a hoax. I want to see more credible sources for those claims. Maybe it's difficult to get sources. Still, that's needed imo.

Do your own research.

[Anders Lindman]

Do your own research.

I have! I sent an email to the FBI. I thought it would be best to get info directly from them.

[Gawdzilla]

I have! I sent an email to the FBI. I thought it would be best to get info directly from them.

They only looked at the AF informants report. It was in the files when the FBI was asked to look for any mention of UFOs. The FBI writer summaried the AFI's report. You have to find the original AFI report, then track that back through the chain of evidence.

While you're doing that, I'll be having a life.

[drewid]

I don't think it's ET, I think it's the Fae.
There have been eyewitness reports for centuries about these little buggers.

[Anders Lindman]

Some may wonder if ETs really are here, how do we know that they are peaceful?

1. If they would have been really hostile, we would have been toast by now.

2. If they would have wanted material resources, they would have grabbed them already.

3. They don't need to experiment on us humans because they already know everything about us.

4. They don't need to steal sperm or eggs because they can manufacture that if they wanted to (which they don't).

5. They don't need chunks from cows.

6. They may need money, but not for survival.

7. They have nothing to fear.

[Grassy Knowlington]

Some may wonder if ETs really are here, how do we know that they are peaceful?

1. ....

7. They have nothing to fear.


Except the inanity of this thread.

[Anders Lindman]

Except the inanity of this thread.

Not fear but perhaps shaking their heads, going: "Oh my goodness, what fantasies! Doesn't he know that we love to lift cows into our UFOs and drink their blood?!" :D

[Gawdzilla]

Some may wonder if ETs really are here, how do we know that they are peaceful?
You don't start in the middle, Anders. You have failed to prove ET is here. Anything after that is phlogiston.

[Anders Lindman]

You don't start in the middle, Anders. You have failed to prove ET is here. Anything after that is phlogiston.

Oops. Forgot that part. Minor detail. I do believe the ETs already are here. The problem is that they don't want to reveal themselves officially. :mad:

[Gawdzilla]

Oops. Forgot that part. Minor detail. I do believe the ETs already are here. The problem is that they don't want to reveal themselves officially. :mad:

Your proof they are here?

[Craig4]

Oops. Forgot that part. Minor detail. I do believe the ETs already are here. The problem is that they don't want to reveal themselves officially. :mad:

Your beliefs are not important. Make with the evidence.

[Anders Lindman]

Your proof they are here?

"The results of a new digital scan applied to super-enlargements of the famous UFO photos taken by a reporter-photographer for the Fort Worth Star-Telegram show that the debris displayed in General Ramey's 8th Air Force Headquarters office in Fort Worth on July 8, 1947, is clearly consistent with eyewitness descriptions of the world's best-known "flying saucer" which had crashed near Roswell, New Mexico, a few days before and is not a "weather balloon" which had been substituted on orders of General Ramey."

Full article: http://www.abcfield.force9.co.uk/roswell2.html

[Gawdzilla]

"The results of a new digital scan applied to super-enlargements of the famous UFO photos taken by a reporter-photographer for the Fort Worth Star-Telegram show that the debris displayed in General Ramey's 8th Air Force Headquarters office in Fort Worth on July 8, 1947, is clearly consistent with eyewitness descriptions of the world's best-known "flying saucer" which had crashed near Roswell, New Mexico, a few days before and is not a "weather balloon" which had been substituted on orders of General Ramey."

Full article: http://www.abcfield.force9.co.uk/roswell2.html

He compared the material with all known crashed flying saucer wreckage of course. :confused: Brazell said it was sticks, tinfoil, rubber, etc. So the pictures taken in Texas do match the description of eyewitness of the material recovered.

[Anders Lindman]

He compared the material with all known crashed flying saucer wreckage of course. :confused: Brazell said it was sticks, tinfoil, rubber, etc. So the pictures taken in Texas do match the description of eyewitness of the material recovered.

Who is Brazell?

[Gawdzilla]

Who is Brazell?

If you want to split hair and quibble, take a deep breath and hold it until I'm ready to play.

[Anders Lindman]

If you want to split hair and quibble, take a deep breath and hold it until I'm ready to play.

"Mac Brazel, who discovered the debris which sparked the Roswell UFO incident, died in 1963, well before researchers started to interview witnesses to the incident. However, he was interviewed in 1947 and his accounts of debris appeared in the Roswell Daily Record on July 9, 1947. In the interview he said he found "bright wreckage made up of rubber strips, tinfoil, a rather tough paper and sticks"." -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witness_accounts_of_the_Roswell_UFO_incident#Mac_B razel.27s_interview

The news story about flying saucer found is from July 8: http://lahoradelosfantasmas.tripod.com/imagenes/dialy_record.gif

So, Brazel's story is one day later, when they have changed the story to being about a weather balloon: http://www.ettracker.com/1jpg/1947f.jpg

http://www.ettracker.com/index-53.html

And so I believe Brazel's testimony was fake or was spun to fit the balloon story.

[Gawdzilla]

"Mac Brazel, who discovered the debris which sparked the Roswell UFO incident, died in 1963, well before researchers started to interview witnesses to the incident. However, he was interviewed in 1947 and his accounts of debris appeared in the Roswell Daily Record on July 9, 1947. In the interview he said he found "bright wreckage made up of rubber strips, tinfoil, a rather tough paper and sticks"." -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witness_accounts_of_the_Roswell_UFO_incident#Mac_B razel.27s_interview

The news story about flying saucer found is from July 8: http://lahoradelosfantasmas.tripod.com/imagenes/dialy_record.gif

So, Brazel's story is one day later, when they have changed the story to being about a weather balloon: http://www.ettracker.com/1jpg/1947f.jpg

http://www.ettracker.com/index-53.html

And so I believe Brazel's testimony was fake or was spun to fit the balloon story.
They interviewed Brazel after the moron PAO made an ill-considered and stupid announcement. You can spin that anyway you want, and I have no doubt you will.

[Dr. Keith]

Um, no I'm not.

That **** was funny!

(from a fellow baldy)

[Gawdzilla]

That **** was funny!

(from a fellow baldy)

Actually, I shave my head. I used to get my hair cut every two weeks in the Navy and I grew bored with the idea. Then I saw how much barbers wanted in the World and I said "to hell with that." It's been more than 20 years since I paid for a haircut.

[Anders Lindman]

6. They may need money, but not for survival.


To elaborate (speculate :D) a bit: there are at least two different forms of money: 1) money that the ETs use themselves, and 2) money here on Earth.

Would they need to use money themselves in their own society? Yes, for certain things. And what about earthly money, can't they literally create that out of thin air with their highly developed technology? Yes, but that would be against our laws and therefore a mischief. The advanced ETs behave ethically. Then why would they need our kind of money anyway? To buy things here on Earth! If an ET wanted to buy say a hamburger at McDonald's then he or she would need to look like a human plus use real money. The ET could of course simply zap a Big Mac into existence out of the vacuum energy, but maybe for some reason the ET wants to go to an actual McDonald's and buy a hamburger.

[Justin39640]

Actually, I shave my head. I used to get my hair cut every two weeks in the Navy and I grew bored with the idea. Then I saw how much barbers wanted in the World and I said "to hell with that." It's been more than 20 years since I paid for a haircut.

I've been bic'ing mine well over 10 years now. Though, my reason was DNA related not my wallet. :D

The first year I did mine made the mistake of wearing my Yankees hat to work... in the summer... outside... and I'm Italian. :eek: I looked lobotomized for a couple of weeks till my tan line evened out lol.

[Gawdzilla]

I've been bic'ing mine well over 10 years now. Though, my reason was DNA related not my wallet. :D

The first year I did mine made the mistake of wearing my Yankees hat to work... in the summer... outside... and I'm Italian. :eek: I looked lobotomized for a couple of weeks till my tan line evened out lol.

:snork: In boot camp we had to have our white hats at just the right spot on the head. After nine weeks in the Illinois sun I had the world's weirdest farmer's tan.