U.S. Masters Skiers share faith in God [Archive]

Suddenly

29th March 2004, 01:02 PM

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep
Well if Andy Mapple beleives in God, I guess that settles it. He sure convinced me. I figure if a world champion waterskiier beleives it then it MUST be true.:rolleyes:

Just out of curiosity, if a good waterskier is a Master Skier, is a good fisherman a Master Baiter?

Signed,

Curious

P.S. I figured since you are in Nevada you would know. Doyle Brunson lives in Nevada and he is a really good poker player so that means he is smart and therefore so is everyone in Nevada. At least given the implied logic behind this thread I'm pretty sure that works out. I'll review it after I finish the bottle and let you know...

scribble

29th March 2004, 01:03 PM

The only professional waterskiers I've spoken to are... Riddick. Who's a shining example of honesty and virtue. So I can only assume the rest of the world of skiing is something I'd like to emulate.

:rolleyes:

Nyarlathotep

29th March 2004, 01:06 PM

Originally posted by Suddenly

Just out of curiosity, if a good waterskier is a Master Skier, is a good fisherman a Master Baiter?

Signed,

Curious

P.S. I figured since you are in Nevada you would know. Doyle Brunson lives in Nevada and he is a really good poker player so that means he is smart and therefore so is everyone in Nevada. At least given the implied logic behind this thread I'm pretty sure that works out. I'll review it after I finish the bottle and let you know...

Of course we're all smart over here. The hot dry air is good for the brain, you see.

c4ts

29th March 2004, 01:17 PM

Honestly, who cares if successful water skiers believe in god? In this sense, religion is nothing more than an opinion, as unfounded and meaningless as any other.

steve74

29th March 2004, 01:20 PM

Coming soon from Riddick:

Man who placed 6th in the 1985 Belgian Scrabble Championship declares his Christian faith.

roger

29th March 2004, 01:24 PM

Yes, but will the guy also claim to place 1st in the championship?

Ipecac

29th March 2004, 01:29 PM

What about Ronald Reagan, Actor, President, Astronaut? Is he one of the famous water skiiers?

uruk

29th March 2004, 01:40 PM

Riddick is trying to make a point that if millions of people or successful people believe in god then there must be something to it. This is a fallacy of bandwagonisn and false authority. Just because alot of people believe in something doesn't mean it is true or real. Alot of people believed in the nazi ideals ( here in america too. Charles Linberg was a nazi sympathizer)In th 40's. that doesn't mean it was just or good, or right.

Remember Riddick A million people can be wrong. even educated people. Carl Sagan put it best. "Being smart is not insurance against being absolutly wrong."

Yahweh

29th March 2004, 02:02 PM

U.S. Masters Skiers share faith in God
What is the moral of this story?

Abdul Alhazred

29th March 2004, 02:23 PM

Nyarlathotep

29th March 2004, 02:33 PM

Originally posted by Abdul Alhazred

I'm not yet convinced. Where do the Olympic beach volleyballers stand on the issue? :D

It's a known fact that Olympic Beach volleyballers are all cultists of Shub-Niggurath.;)

Abdul Alhazred

29th March 2004, 02:34 PM

Originally posted by Suddenly
Just out of curiosity, if a good waterskier is a Master Skier, is a good fisherman a Master Baiter?

I propose that any forum member who reaches 20000 posts should have a default status of 'Master Debater'. :p

Abdul Alhazred

29th March 2004, 02:35 PM

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep

It's a known fact that Olympic Beach volleyballers are all cultists of Shub-Niggurath.;)

It figures. :D

MLynn

29th March 2004, 02:36 PM

I've been laughing through this thread - Master Baiter - that's funny! Riddick, I don't know why you think posting these "faith" stories by celebraties and athletes will help skeptics believe in God. It just ain't gonna happen. I'm not trying to be mean and I certainly think you can express your opinion; I just don't think it's constructive (my opinion).

Lisa Simpson

29th March 2004, 02:40 PM

Originally posted by MLynn
I've been laughing through this thread - Master Baiter - that's funny! Riddick, I don't know why you think posting these "faith" stories by celebraties and athletes will help skeptics believe in God. It just ain't gonna happen. I'm not trying to be mean and I certainly think you can express your opinion; I just don't think it's constructive (my opinion).

I was thinking perhaps he is going for the Chinese Water Torture effect. Post by post until the skeptics can't take it anymore and admit he's right.

WildCat

29th March 2004, 02:59 PM

Don't forget this (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37785) and this. (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37666)

rustypouch

29th March 2004, 04:06 PM

What about downhill skiers?

In a recent interview in Powder magazine (I forget which issue, but I can find it) Seth Morrison, one of the greatest downhill skiers of all time, admited to a complete lack of faith. So what does that tell you?

Nyarlathotep

29th March 2004, 04:16 PM

I think we should all just settle down and wait until the Pro Bowlers and the winner of the last five Bass Masters tournaments have all weighed in on the god issue. We wouldn't want to be hasty...

Lisa Simpson

29th March 2004, 04:19 PM

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep
I think we should all just settle down and wait until the Pro Bowlers and the winner of the last five Bass Masters tournaments have all weighed in on the god issue. We wouldn't want to be hasty...

I would argue bowling and fishing are not sports, therefore whatever their opinion on god is, it's irrelevant.

scribble

29th March 2004, 04:20 PM

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep
the winner of the last five Bass Masters tournaments have all weighed in on the god issue. We wouldn't want to be hasty...

You know, this made me think of my Dad, who's been trying to catch the ultimate bass as long as I've been alive. He invests tons of money in boats and lures and reels and high-tech fish-finders and you-name-it.

I'm not sure I've ver seen him catch a bass, proper. Plenty of other fish, though.

Anyhow, all this is beside the point. My point was, my Dad is a Christian. If that argument from authority doesn't convince me, no number of bass fishermen, or bowlers, or skiiers will work.

If Riddick is here to learn, the lesson to be taken from these posts of his is that argument from authority doesn't fly too well here.

scribble

29th March 2004, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by Lisa Simpson
I would argue bowling and fishing are not sports, therefore whatever their opinion on god is, it's irrelevant.

Blasphemy!!!!!

No, seriously, try telling that to all the professional bowlers and fishermen. I guess you can tell them their sporting tournaments are pointless, since they're not sports.

http://espn.go.com/outdoors/bassmaster/

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/pba/index

I could be wrong... but I think the "S" in ESPN stands for sports.

Lisa Simpson

29th March 2004, 04:27 PM

Originally posted by scribble

Blasphemy!!!!!

No, seriously, try telling that to all the professional bowlers and fishermen. I guess you can tell them their sporting tournaments are pointless, since they're not sports.

http://espn.go.com/outdoors/bassmaster/

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/pba/index

I could be wrong... but I think the "S" in ESPN stands for sports.

They can think it's a sport all they like. I wouldn't tell them otherwise. But it's not.

:p

scribble

29th March 2004, 04:33 PM

Originally posted by Lisa Simpson
They can think it's a sport all they like. I wouldn't tell them otherwise. But it's not.

All right, that's fair. I tried the argument from authority (ESPN) and it failed. I should have learned not to do that.

So for the sake of someone here learning something, let's try a legitimate argument.

How are you defining "sports?" We know bass fishing and bowling can't fit your definition, so what can: Soccer, football, basketball, baseball, rock climbing, poker, etc?

Lisa Simpson

29th March 2004, 04:43 PM

Originally posted by scribble

All right, that's fair. I tried the argument from authority (ESPN) and it failed. I should have learned not to do that.

So for the sake of someone here learning something, let's try a legitimate argument.

How are you defining "sports?" We know bass fishing and bowling can't fit your definition, so what can: Soccer, football, basketball, baseball, rock climbing, poker, etc?

I do hope you understand I'm joking about bowling and fishing.

I like to think of sports as humans, either singly or in teams, competing (physically) against other humans for some specific goal. Poker is out--that's a mental game, not a physical one. Bull fighting, fishing are out--man against beast isn't a fair fight.

That's just me, YMMV.

uruk

29th March 2004, 04:47 PM

How are you defining "sports?"
by how psychotic the fans are. That would probably put soccer at the top of what is sports list

LFTKBS

29th March 2004, 05:17 PM

1) Moderately successful person believes in God.
2) Therefore, God exists.

See over 300 more at http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/GodProof.htm

scribble

29th March 2004, 05:22 PM

Originally posted by Lisa Simpson
I do hope you understand I'm joking about bowling and fishing.

I figured; but it made a brilliant illustration of how pointless it was for me to make an argument from authority.

Poker is out--that's a mental game, not a physical one.

Chess too. Dammit, there goes the geek sports refuge...

Bull fighting, fishing are out--man against beast isn't a fair fight.

Bull fighting might be man vs. bull - I'm not familiar with the sport. But fishing is man vs. man - the excitement (and reward) isn't in landing a big fish, but in landing a bigger fish than the other guy.

And I think bowling *does* fall into your definition.

Lisa Simpson

29th March 2004, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by scribble

Bull fighting might be man vs. bull - I'm not familiar with the sport. But fishing is man vs. man - the excitement (and reward) isn't in landing a big fish, but in landing a bigger fish than the other guy.

And I think bowling *does* fall into your definition.

Catching a bigger fish than the next guy is just such a guy thing. I just don't get it.

Bowling is just barely physical. Stand up, roll the ball, sit down. Repeat.

scribble

29th March 2004, 05:30 PM

Originally posted by Lisa Simpson
Bowling is just barely physical. Stand up, roll the ball, sit down. Repeat.

Just barely physical is good enough to fit your definition!

Speaking of just barely physical sports, take baseball. What a crock! Unless you are the pitcher, catcher, or first base man, 99% of your time is spent either standing in a field watching the game just as any other spectator would, or in the dugout watching the game, just as any other spectator would. What's up with THAT? boooo-ring....

Lisa Simpson

29th March 2004, 05:41 PM

So baseball shouldn't be counted as a sport since only the catcher, pitcher and first basemen are active? Or are you just arguing that it's boring? In which case, I'll agree. :)

evildave

29th March 2004, 05:41 PM

Don't we need to drag the pope into this?

After all, if you can't do it on sunday, it's probably a sport....

Lisa Simpson

29th March 2004, 05:49 PM

Originally posted by evildave
Don't we need to drag the pope into this?

After all, if you can't do it on sunday, it's probably a sport....

Isn't that arguing from authority again?

Mercutio

29th March 2004, 05:57 PM

According to Stuart Vyse's Believing in Magic: The Psychology of Supersition (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/textbooks/booksearch/isbninquiry.asp?userid=2W8LMELSQB&sourceid=00404483449386970675&bfdate=03%2D29%2D2004+20%3A59%3A01&popup=0&isbn=0195136349) (a must-have for skeptics, IMHO), the more successful an athlete, the more superstitious they will tend to be. This makes perfect sense--the more success they have had, the more opportunity there has been for this success to have been arbitrarily paired with some superstitious ritual.

By this reasoning (backed with empirical support), it is not that religious belief causes success in sport, but rather that success in sport causes superstition, one version of which is religious belief. So these skiers have faith in a god, Wade Boggs eats chicken before every game, Sparky Anderson always hopped over the chalk baseline, and Jason Kidd has that ridiculous free-throw routine, all for similar reasons. Fascinating.

Abdul Alhazred

29th March 2004, 07:04 PM

Originally posted by rustypouch
What about downhill skiers?

In a recent interview in Powder magazine (I forget which issue, but I can find it) Seth Morrison, one of the greatest downhill skiers of all time, admited to a complete lack of faith. So what does that tell you?

Who cares what downhill skiers think.

When it comes to belief in an afterlife, I want to know what ski-jumpers think. :p

Abdul Alhazred

29th March 2004, 07:16 PM

Originally posted by Lisa Simpson

I would argue bowling and fishing are not sports, therefore whatever their opinion on god is, it's irrelevant. American style pro wrestling isn't a sport, but it requires considerable atheticism and is carefully choreographed. It is therefore akin to ballet.

The only significant difference between ballet and pro wrestling is the social class of the core fan base. And how important is that?

OK so they play some music with the ballet.

I'm a fan of ballet, but I also love watching Goldberg perform. Who is Goldberg? No less than the hunkiest pro wrestler in history.

If ballet dancers and pro wrestlers agree on the God question, then that settles it once and for all. If not, then the question awaits more evidence. :p

Lisa Simpson

29th March 2004, 07:25 PM

I know who Goldberg is, and I agree with the amount of athleticism it must take to do those moves and survive. I watched Lucha Libre the other day on Spanish language TV. I don't speak enough Spanish to understand what they were saying, but body slamming is universal. :)

Abdul Alhazred

29th March 2004, 07:26 PM

Originally posted by Lisa Simpson
So baseball shouldn't be counted as a sport since only the catcher, pitcher and first basemen are active? Or are you just arguing that it's boring? In which case, I'll agree. :)

I heard something on the BBC World Service (shortwave) back in the 1980s (no doubt since countermanded), to the effect that baseball was catching on in the UK. Something about it being a faster game than cricket.

Cricket must be a REAL snore. :p

OK it's not the only sport named after an insect, there's also some Chinese martial art known as "preying mantis boxing", at least in English.

When I get around to it, I will invent a new sport and call it cockroach. :p

Lisa Simpson

29th March 2004, 07:28 PM

Originally posted by Abdul Alhazred

When I get around to it, I will invent a new sport and call it cockroach. :p

But most relevently to this thread, will Cockroach players believe in God?

Abdul Alhazred

29th March 2004, 08:03 PM

Originally posted by Lisa Simpson

But most relevantly to this thread, will Cockroach players believe in God?

They will believe in a Cockroach God that created cockroaches in Its image. That will be rule number zero. :D

Tricky

29th March 2004, 08:04 PM

Originally posted by Abdul Alhazred
OK it's not the only sport named after an insect, there's also some Chinese martial art known as "preying mantis boxing", at least in English.
Well, there's the 100 and 400 meter butterfly in swimming. Fly fishing (not to mention fly-weight boxing). Midge-t racing. Must be a few others.

Abdul Alhazred

29th March 2004, 08:15 PM

Originally posted by Tricky

Well, there's the 100 and 400 meter butterfly in swimming. Fly fishing (not to mention fly-weight boxing). Midge-t racing. Must be a few others.

OK I'll give you the butterfly and the midge.

But that's fleigh-weight boxing, never mind the ignorant spelling of many folks. Fleigh is a Middle-English word meaning short with big muscles. :p

And that's flying fishing, best done on the road to Mandalay. :p :D

wollery

30th March 2004, 09:00 AM

Originally posted by Abdul Alhazred
I heard something on the BBC World Service (shortwave) back in the 1980s (no doubt since countermanded), to the effect that baseball was catching on in the UK. Something about it being a faster game than cricket.

Cricket must be a REAL snore. :p

OK it's not the only sport named after an insect, there's also some Chinese martial art known as "preying mantis boxing", at least in English.

When I get around to it, I will invent a new sport and call it cockroach. :p Baseball is catching on in the UK, but I don't think that it will ever replace Cricket, at least not in the English conciousness. Cricket is not a sport, it is a game, although we never could get the Australians and South Africans to understand that. :D

Any game that takes five days to complete one match cannot be seriously considered a sport. Let's face it, it was invented by a bunch of public school* educated gentlemen and lords who wanted something slightly more strenuous than a stroll in the park to keep them entertained through the long parliamentary summer recess, but not so strenuous as to make them perspire or get their clothes dirty.

*For the uninitiated, in Britain public school means the really old, really expensive private schools, such as Eton, Harrow & Rugby.)

Gestahl

30th March 2004, 01:32 PM

Originally posted by Lisa Simpson
I know who Goldberg is, and I agree with the amount of athleticism it must take to do those moves and survive. I watched Lucha Libre the other day on Spanish language TV. I don't speak enough Spanish to understand what they were saying, but body slamming is universal. :)

There is a wrestler called "Milk Liberates?" That's pretty funny. Good message for the kids, you know: "Drink your milk to liberate your inner strength!" or somesuch.

Lisa Simpson

30th March 2004, 02:17 PM

Milk is leche, not lucha. :)

Lucha means fight or scuffle.

Abdul Alhazred

30th March 2004, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by Lisa Simpson
Milk is leche, not lucha. :)

Lucha means fight or scuffle.

lucha == struggle

lucha libre == "free for all" (idiomatic translation)

Filippo Lippi

30th March 2004, 10:40 PM

Originally posted by wollery
Baseball is catching on in the UK, but I don't think that it will ever replace Cricket, at least not in the English conciousness. Cricket is not a sport, it is a game, although we never could get the Australians and South Africans to understand that. :D

Any game that takes five days to complete one match cannot be seriously considered a sport. Let's face it, it was invented by a bunch of public school* educated gentlemen and lords who wanted something slightly more strenuous than a stroll in the park to keep them entertained through the long parliamentary summer recess, but not so strenuous as to make them perspire or get their clothes dirty.

*For the uninitiated, in Britain public school means the really old, really expensive private schools, such as Eton, Harrow & Rugby.)

There is no evidence of baseball being played here in the East Midlands - not that I've looked very hard. Cricket leagues reported all over the place, but I've never seen a report of a baseball match.

We did play a bit of softball at work, but that's because it's more safer than bowling beamers at the ladies.

Peter Jenkins

31st March 2004, 02:04 AM

Baseball has always been pretty big in Britain....................

............Except we call it 'Rounders' and its usually played by Women and children

:p

P

Abdul Alhazred

31st March 2004, 03:21 AM

Originally posted by Peter Jenkins
Baseball has always been pretty big in Britain....................

............Except we call it 'Rounders' and its usually played by Women and children

:p

Not quite. I've played rounders, and it's not the same. Rounders is what we played as kids when there weren't enough to play baseball or something like it.

There are a number of baseball-like games that I played as a kid. There was no "Little League" in my neighborhood, it was all informal.

The ball was a "spaldeen". That is a defective tennis ball core sold cheap.

We played punch ball. No pitcher. The batter with no bat throws the spaldeen straight up and punches it on the way down.

We played stick ball. With or without a pitcher. The stick was a broomstick or something similar. A true baseball bat was an expensive proposition.

Obviously these games are all from a related tradition.

In rounders as I played it the number of bases is equal to the number of players and there are no teams. No home plate, no outfielders. You just stand in a circle, and the ball is handed around after each hit.

Five or so kids is not enough for baseball or similar team games, but we could play rounders, every kid for himself.

Is this the game you are talking about? If not, what then?

I never played a proper game of baseball until I was in high school. But football (USA style) was the big thing. The playing surface was concrete in the "park". Ouch!

Sports was a requirement in high school. I have not played any sports, nor followed the fortunes of the pros ever since.

In college I had to make good on a "phys ed" requirement, but that could be fulfilled without actual sports.

Lothian

31st March 2004, 03:50 AM

A long long time ago the rules of baseball and rounders were the same. Every so often one side comes up with an earlier printed edition of the rules than the other.

However both have progressed from the early days.

In the UK as Peter says it is a fun game for girls to play.

In America it’s only redeeming feature appears to be the introduction of statistics to the lives of people who haven’t the intellect to find a decent sport to follow.

Cricket however is a glorious game. It is understandable that Americans do not appreciate it, with their keenness for everything quick.

Cricket and baseball is like comparing a 10 course dinner with a big mac, tantric sex with a knee trembler, a lingering massage with a slap on the back and Bohemian Rhapsody with Agadoo…..(running out of allegories at the end, sorry).

Abdul Alhazred

31st March 2004, 04:29 AM

Originally posted by Lothian
... Cricket and baseball is like comparing a 10 course dinner with a big mac, tantric sex with a knee trembler, a lingering massage with a slap on the back and Bohemian Rhapsody with Agadoo…..(running out of allegories at the end, sorry).

British 'footie' and proper American football is like comparing a kick in the crotch to a game of chess. I'm talking about the spectators, of course. :p

Peter Jenkins

31st March 2004, 07:24 AM

Proper football is played with the feet. (the clue is in the name)

American Footbal is comparable with rugby.............
.........If rugby players decided take a break every time one of them fell over....................and if they decided to cover every square inch of their body with thick padding. :p
P