Does "education" make you intelligent?

[Raleigh Marsden]

There are many people who think that just because they have a degree, they are intelligent. Often it's far from the case at all.

The "education" system is designed to create slaves, cogs in a wheel, rather than turn out well rounded individuals. It's not education at all, it's indoctrination.

[Cainkane1]

There are many people who think that just because they have a degree, they are intelligent. Often it's far from the case at all.

The "education" system is designed to create slaves, cogs in a wheel, rather than turn out well rounded individuals. It's not education at all, it's indoctrination.
Its not what you know its how you use wehat you know. There is a guy I know with a masters degree in business who can't get along with his employers and at one time ended up homeless. He finally got his act together enough to stay employed but he never lived up to his potential.

[madurobob]

The "education" system is designed to create slaves, cogs in a wheel, rather than turn out well rounded individuals. It's not education at all, it's indoctrination.
Which system are you talking about here? What is your suggestion for improving it?

[Raleigh Marsden]

Which system are you talking about here? What is your suggestion for improving it?

I could never improve it. It's perfect.

[madurobob]

The "education" system is designed to create slaves, cogs in a wheel, rather than turn out well rounded individuals. It's not education at all, it's indoctrination.
Try opting out and getting no education and see how that works out for you

I could never improve it. It's perfect.
Indeed. The system is like a sewer: you only get out what you put in.

[Raleigh Marsden]

Try opting out and getting no education and see how that works out for you


Indeed. The system is like a sewer: you only get out what you put in.

The so called education system is not about education at all, it's about moulding people into being obedient workers / consumers / believers of the mainstream. That's why in a world of 7 billion people, everyone is the same.

[madurobob]

The so called education system is not about education at all, it's about moulding people into being obedient workers / consumers / believers of the mainstream. That's why in a world of 7 billion people, everyone is the same.

No true at all - none are the same. And, this "education system" you complain about is worldwide? Really? Who administers it?

[thaiboxerken]

Smarter? No. more knowledgeable about certain subjects, yes.

[FenerFan]

The so called education system is not about education at all, it's about moulding people into being obedient workers / consumers / believers of the mainstream. That's why in a world of 7 billion people, everyone is the same.

:jaw-dropp That is a ridiculous statement.
My advice for you is to get a passport and travel around a bit.

[madurobob]

Smarter? No. more knowledgeable about certain subjects, yes.

More intelligent? I think so, depending on how you define the term. Education gives you access to ideas you probably would not otherwise encounter (no need to reinvent the wheel). it gives you critical thinking skills that allow you to take ownership of your education and evaluate ideas directly, without the constant need for an interpreter/teacher. Opt out of the "education system" at your own peril.

[Dancing David]

There are many people who think that just because they have a degree, they are intelligent. Often it's far from the case at all.

The "education" system is designed to create slaves, cogs in a wheel, rather than turn out well rounded individuals. It's not education at all, it's indoctrination.

Oh my, where did you go to school and when?

In Illinois we have five core subjects
Math, Reading, Writing/Language Arts, Science and Social Studies, in the k-6 setting we have seven hours to do it, we also have lunch, and a rotation of three subjects,: Art , Music and PE.

That is what we are supposed to teach, and I don't know where you got your school experience but they are not cogs in a wheel, far from it.

So try to state your intentions and ideas clearly and with concrete examples.

[Blackadder]

The so called education system is not about education at all, it's about moulding people into being obedient workers / consumers / believers of the mainstream. That's why in a world of 7 billion people, everyone is the same.

read Brave New World lately?

[Dancing David]

I could never improve it. It's perfect.

So when asked what should be improved you resort to apparent sarcasm, so you don't know what you would do to improve the current schools system? Gosh, I sure do know what I think.

[Dancing David]

The so called education system is not about education at all, it's about moulding people into being obedient workers / consumers / believers of the mainstream. That's why in a world of 7 billion people, everyone is the same.

Uh huh, and that is why you can express an opinion here and many other peopel will disagree, because we are all the same.

So concrete examples of that of which you speak?

[AmandaM]

and a rotation of three subjects,: Art , Music and PE.

This makes me a little sad. When I was in K-6, we had art and music as separate every-day classes. Instrumental music (ie Band) took the place of one general class each week (which the math teachers HATED!)

PE alternated with Health class, from semester to semester.


Higher education (in my experience) was one of the best times of my life (and not because of parties.) I was quite a bit older when I enrolled, though, and I was just thrilled to encounter new ideas I'd never thought of, and to re-read books we'd only briefly mentioned in high school. But then, I went to a very small liberal arts college and majored in English.

[Twiler]

The so called education system is not about education at all, it's about moulding people into being obedient workers / consumers / believers of the mainstream. That's why in a world of 7 billion people, everyone is the same.

If that's the case, why don't I agree with you?

[AmandaM]

The "education" system is designed to create slaves, cogs in a wheel, rather than turn out well rounded individuals. It's not education at all, it's indoctrination.

You know, in a small way, I would agree with you -- at SOME schools. Not all. But some, definitely.

I started a masters interdisciplinary liberal arts program at a big state school near me, mostly known for being a "vocation factory," turning out scores of nurses, x-ray techs, and unemployed MBAs. (I should have known better.) I quit after 18 hours because I felt like they were trying to do exactly what you mentioned. The "masters" lit classes were just senior undergrad classes with more paper requirements. There was really no encouragement of individual thought.

The final straw for me was a class on Women, Art, and Society, and it was basically a class on feminist interpretation of art. The "teacher" was a gallery director who had no more business teaching than I do running a fire station. I was in a study group with some of the undergrad students, and the general consensus was that the only way to pass the class was just to take the assumption that "men are bad." I was gobsmacked that 19- to 21-year old women were being brainwashed in such a fashion, and I called the department head at home to complain about it. She came in to talk to the students, but the damage was done.

I'm sure we all have stories like that, but I don't think the entire SYSTEM of higher education is to blame. I can't even say going to a small private school is the answer. It was for ME, but I'm sure there are just as many people here who attended USC or any huge state school and got a lot of their experience. I agree that what you put into it really helps determine what you get out of it.


As for the original question, education CAN make you smarter. But there are no guarantees. I've met some self-taught people who are pretty clever. And I've met some people with Masters who are about as dense as a lead wall. No guarantees.

[NewtonTrino]

There are many people who think that just because they have a degree, they are intelligent. Often it's far from the case at all.

The "education" system is designed to create slaves, cogs in a wheel, rather than turn out well rounded individuals. It's not education at all, it's indoctrination.

So what's the alternative? Also you're going to need to be a lot more specific. For example, in the case of elementary education it's simply that, trying to get people who to a basic level of understanding so that hopefully they aren't useless sucks on the rest of us. University education is supposed to be about teaching you to think. It seems to me it does a fairly good job of that.

Did you have more specific thoughts?

[madurobob]

This makes me a little sad. When I was in K-6, we had art and music as separate every-day classes. Instrumental music (ie Band) took the place of one general class each week (which the math teachers HATED!)

Its a tough choice. Both of my kids qualified for the 'gifted" program in elementary school and I felt I had to enroll them. They were pulled out of class each day for special English and Math classes... at the expense of Art and Music. It was a tough decision, especially for my youngest (a rising 6th grader) who is an amazing artist. We made up for it by signing him up for afterschool art classes.

In middle-school my older son expressed an interest in music and I encouraged him to explore it. From then on nearly every elective was music or theater oriented and he started taking music lessons after school. He graduated High School with a 4.0 GPA that included several AP/college level Math and German classes, but he was also in the orchestra, the jazz band, the marching band and the leader of a jazz quartet that played clubs, weddings and other events in the area. He's now finishing his freshman year in an honors music program in Guelph, ON.

So, I guess my point is that the choice between academic subjects and art/music wasn't as black and white as I originally thought it was. There are opportunities outside of school to pursue non-academic passions. If a school system really needs to choose between basic academic classes and art/music I'm OK with them choosing to eliminate art/music.

[redhotrebel]

Education gives you the tools to be "intelligent". The very basics of reading, writing and arithmetic have the potential to undo all the drivel we are "taught" in the interim. Here and now for example: We can learn by reading and arguing in a logical manner to come to a conclusion. We have the required education to become more intelligent on a matter at hand. Does it matter that my sunday school teacher taught me to "disbelieve" evolution? No, because I had the fundamentals to expand my knowledge. But more importantly and here's the catch, I had the desire. You can't have one without the other though and expect to be successful IMO.

[ScottXSI]

This thread makes me think of my cousin, he is poorly educated (Dropped out of highschool at around 15, failed most of his subjects) yet whatever he picks up, computers, engines/mechanical things, mathematics etc he grasps quite quickly.

So I dont think education makes you intelligent, it just helps you to realise your potential.

[MysterOnyx]

There are countless definitions for "intelligence".

IQ tests attempt to test for processing and memory skills rather than academic achievement. Of course, all IQ tests are subject to cultural bias, suggesting that a certain level of "education" is required to do well. Also, children who are irregularly attend school typically score lower on IQ tests than same-aged peers who regularly attend school.

I assume that critical thinking is a better indicator of intelligence than academic achievement.

[Mark6]

That's why in a world of 7 billion people, everyone is the same.
Good example of what I call "filtering line."

It's when a poster says something so blatantly ignorant, I feel safe filtering him in the future.

Another example: I put michaelsuede on my Ignore list when turned out he does not know about Microsoft's regular updates despite using Windows. (It also reveals he is using pirated OS, but that alone does not make him ignorant.)

[23_Tauri]

read Brave New World lately?
Nah, I think he's been reading David Icke books.

[23_Tauri]

So when asked what should be improved you resort to apparent sarcasm, so you don't know what you would do to improve the current schools system? Gosh, I sure do know what I think.
I think Raleigh Marsden means that it's perfect from the PoV of the NWO who invented it as a tool of indoctrination of the masses, so that they behave like sheeple. This is the bible of Icke. And Alex Jones. Which is who Raleigh Marsden is choosing to believe at the moment. Without the apparent application of critical thinking skills, I might add.

[KingofMadCows]

First you have to define what you mean by "intelligent." Intelligence is not a real thing. It's just a label we give to people who possess certain abilities. Someone is called intelligent when they are able to do something, like being able to solve a complex physics equation or play a musical instrument with a certain degree of mastery. However, that label is completely arbitrary and since there's no widely accepted standardized definition, its meaning varies from person to person, culture to culture. Being able to recite Shakespeare from heart might be considered intelligent in one culture and it may be considered pointless in another culture.

[The Don]

There are many people who think that just because they have a degree, they are intelligent. Often it's far from the case at all.

If someone believes that they are intelligent solely because they have a degree then I would say they are wrong. If someone said that the average intelligence of people in a society with degrees is higher than those without degrees then that may be a tenable position but there are many confounding factors.

I would hazard that more education would not increase your innate intelligence (though I have no idea how you would measure that) but it may give you tools and techniques which will allow you to maximise the potential of your intelligence.

The "education" system is designed to create slaves, cogs in a wheel, rather than turn out well rounded individuals. It's not education at all, it's indoctrination.

I take it that you are talking about the education system in a particular country (they do vary). I also take it that you have some kind of agenda here. The fact that you have mentioned well-rounded individuals and the fact that the current system turns out slaves leads me to suspect that you have had issues putting in the effort to maintain your grades in the past.

You feel that you are very intelligent (most people do feel that they are) and feel that the educational system has failed you.

I'm sorry but to quote an old adage, "Life is hard and then you die". If you find hard work too hard in education, you are likely to find it too hard in your chosen career.

[timhau]

I would hazard that more education would not increase your innate intelligence (though I have no idea how you would measure that) but it may give you tools and techniques which will allow you to maximise the potential of your intelligence.

My guess (without any real evidence) is that this is true. Also the demands for minimum intelligence may go up as you go up the degree tree; that doesn't necessarily do anything more than weed out the majority of the most obvious drooling idiots from the slice of the population holding a post-graduate degree, but that's still something.

In general, degrees test your gluteus maximus at least as much as they test your brain, and I suspect that most of the time you can make up for cerebral deficiencies by having really durable glutei maximi.