What information should ID cards contain ?

[El Greco]

The privacy vs security issue...

I was short of options so I left out the obvious ones (name, signature) or the less important ones (profession, etc). Feel free to add your ideas, though.

Furthermore: Should ID cards expire, and if yes, after how many years ?

[Matabiri]

I'd go for none of the above, I'm afraid. I'm not in favour.

[Grammatron]

Originally posted by El Greco
The privacy vs security issue...

I was short of options so I left out the obvious ones (name, signature) or the less important ones (profession, etc). Feel free to add your ideas, though.

Furthermore: Should ID cards expire, and if yes, after how many years ?

I'm wondering why did you put in Photograph as a choice, how can you have an ID with out one? If you can't do some basic Identifying what is the point of the Identification Card?

Personally I don't see what it needs beyond Name, Address, Features, Photo and Signature.

[Tony]

My ideal ID card would be a blank white card.


Question for anyone in the know: In the US, are you legally required to carry your ID (driver's licence) on you at all times, or just while driving?

[geni]

If Blunket gets his plans though I am due to become a criminal around 2010. I am not going to carry a national ID card.

[El Greco]

Originally posted by Grammatron
I'm wondering why did you put in Photograph as a choice, how can you have an ID with out one? If you can't do some basic Identifying what is the point of the Identification Card?

Because there are already cases of ID cards without photographs. IIRC, IDs for women in Pakistan often do not have photographs.

Besides, there are ideas about replacing photos (which btw are unreliable for identification purposes) with some barcode that matches eg data from iris and can be checked with proper equipment.

[aerocontrols]

Originally posted by Tony
Question for anyone in the know: In the US, are you legally required to carry your ID (driver's licence) on you at all times, or just while driving?

Just while driving. (not when driving on private property, however - in case you know anyone with enough property to make driving around on it worthwhile)

I wonder if you need a driver's license to move a car from one parking spot to another at a mall? Perhaps yes, because it's a public space?

[Jocko]

Originally posted by aerocontrols


Just while driving. (not when driving on private property, however - in case you know anyone with enough property to make driving around on it worthwhile)

I wonder if you need a driver's license to move a car from one parking spot to another at a mall? Perhaps yes, because it's a public space?

Actually, you don't even NEED to have it then. If you're asked for identification by a law officer, most states I've lived in won't penalize you if you don't have it on your person.

In Illinois the rule was that if you didn't have it with you, you had to follow the cop to the station where they could verify that you did, indeed, have driving credentials. I think there's a 24-hour limit to producing proof there.

I'm sure it varies from state to state, but back in high school I got pulled over for speeding and that's exactly what happened when I realized I'd left my wallet at home. No harm, no foul (except for the speeding ticket, natch).

[belinda]

It used to be that way here too....24hrs to produce at the closest cop shop - but now you can get a on-the-spot fine if you don't have your licence when you are driving. Warning to all aussies out there!

[Luke T.]

Originally posted by Grammatron


I'm wondering why did you put in Photograph as a choice, how can you have an ID with out one? If you can't do some basic Identifying what is the point of the Identification Card?

Personally I don't see what it needs beyond Name, Address, Features, Photo and Signature.

I had a driver's license without a photo on it for many years from the state of Connecticut. Since I was in the military and couldn't go home to have my photo taken at DMV when it expired, they just issued me a non-photo license in the mail.

This caused a problem one time when I rented a car. The lady in the booth wouldn't let me leave the lot since they check your driver's license against the renter's name and she couldn't believe it was a real license. When I explained about the military problem, blah, blah, blah, she told me her boyfriend was in the military and his license had a photo. I asked her where he was stationed. She said "Here." I asked where his license was issued. She said "Here." She still didn't get it.

[Grammatron]

Originally posted by Luke T.


I had a driver's license without a photo on it for many years from the state of Connecticut. Since I was in the military and couldn't go home to have my photo taken at DMV when it expired, they just issued me a non-photo license in the mail.

This caused a problem one time when I rented a car. The lady in the booth wouldn't let me leave the lot since they check your driver's license against the renter's name and she couldn't believe it was a real license. When I explained about the military problem, blah, blah, blah, she told me her boyfriend was in the military and his license had a photo. I asked her where he was stationed. She said "Here." I asked where his license was issued. She said "Here." She still didn't get it.

I think ID and Driver License are different. Granted it doubles as one and the same in many states, ID is suppose to show who you are while Driver License shows you know how to drive, but that's just my opinion.

PS Couldn't you just show her your military ID along with the license?

[Luke T.]

Originally posted by Grammatron


PS Couldn't you just show her your military ID along with the license?

I did. But you have to have a valid driver's license to rent a car. That's where things got stuck. She didn't believe it was a valid license.

[iain]

Originally posted by geni
If Blunket gets his plans though I am due to become a criminal around 2010. I am not going to carry a national ID card. I think you might be OK. The cards, which will do little stop terrorists (ID cards worked so well in Spain, after all) is currently forecast to cost £3billion to implement. Given that this is a large government IT project and, without exception, they always go massively over budget and take longer to implement than planned, I suspect that before it sees the light of day we might get someone in power with the brains to realise that there must be more effective ways of spending a few billion pounds to counter crime and terrorism.

The thing that frustrates me is the general acceptance by much of the public that ID cards will magically reduce crime, fraud and terrorism just because they are ID cards; and therefore anyone opposing ID cards must be in favour of crime, fraud and terrorism :hit:

[Boo]

If are of age and want to purchase tobacco or alcohol you need a valid ID card with a picture. If you drive, you need to have the Drivers lisence. Most places around here require a picture ID for check or credit card prurchases.

If I already have one or the other then why would I need another ID card?


I don't need or want another way for the gov't to 'register' me.



Boo

[Matabiri]

Originally posted by Boo
I don't need or want another way for the gov't to 'register' me.

Oh, come on, they don't want to 'register' you, or interfere with your life in any way.

They just want you to wear this little bell around your neck...

[Brian the Snail]

Another vote for "none of the above."

[epepke]

Originally posted by aerocontrols
Just while driving. (not when driving on private property, however - in case you know anyone with enough property to make driving around on it worthwhile)

This might be true in Georgia. (I lived for two years in Atanta, and I have had Georgia.)

In some other states, you aren't required to carry it but are simply required to be able to produce it within 24 hours of being stopped for a violation.

At no other time are you legally required to show an ID to the authorities, to carry, or even to possess an ID. Of course, the cops might hassle you if you don't, but then again, they might hassle you just because they don't like you.

[richardm]

I can sort of see that you can force people to have driver's licences - after all, your in a car that already has a unique number plate so you should be able to find a person again if they don't produce documentation later.

One of the things that proponents say when talking about ID cards is "Oh, well, you won't be forced to carry one". I presume this is because otherwise it conjours up visions of the Gestapo demanding "Vere are your Papers?".

But if you're not forced to carry it, what's the point of having it in the first place?

"Right you are, potential miscreant. You can go for now, but if you don't show up at the station within 24 hours with your ID card it'll be the worse for you".

I can see that working...

Anyway, I've always been in the "Blank Card" camp.

[Iconoclast]

Originally posted by belinda
It used to be that way here too....24hrs to produce at the closest cop shop - but now you can get a on-the-spot fine if you don't have your licence when you are driving. Warning to all aussies out there! I'm confused Belinda. Back when I got my licence, you needed to have it on you all the time if you were on your L or P licence, but you had to produce it in 24hrs if you had an open licence. Has this all changed in Queensland now? Is it because we're moving to this Australia-wide road rules thing?

[Agammamon]

Originally posted by Grammatron
Personally I don't see what it needs beyond Name, Address, Features, Photo and Signature. Actually, I'd consider an address to be a very bad bit of info to put on the card. Do complete strangers really need to know where you live?

In the US D/L also double as ID. You can be required to show ID in the US, most states have laws allowing that. Right now the Supremes are hearing Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada (http://www.epic.org/privacy/hiibel/) on that very subject.

[Darat]

Originally posted by geni
If Blunket gets his plans though I am due to become a criminal around 2010. I am not going to carry a national ID card.

Totally agree.

[iain]

Maybe a bad April Fools joke, but I doubt it. Tony Blair is saying that he wants to accelerate the introduction of ID cards in the UK.

Apparently, the civil liberties objectors have all been won over! News to me. Maybe Tony Blair is living in some parallel universe.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3590795.stm

[geni]

This link should get you to ID cards FAQ

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/comrace/identitycards/faq3.html

Where it really takes you is worrying.

[Tmy]

Originally posted by Tony
My ideal ID card would be a blank white card.


Why not a black card! RACIST!!!!:p


Gee, ID cards will save the world!!! Whatever, I had my first fake ID when I was 18. Im thinking its not to hard for terrorists to get fake ones either.

Back in the day my ID had my SS# they finally changed that.

[Agammamon]

Worse, it'll be amazingly easy for them to get real ones.

[Zbu]

I won't carry a national ID card either. I bought a US passport back in 2002 and damn it, that $60 is going to carry me until 2012! Even with the crappy photo!!

[Ed]

Most places around here require a picture ID for credit card prurchases.

Boo

That is a violation of the agreement between the credit card provider and the merchant. They ain't allowed to ask (unless you haven't signed it).

[Dcdrac]

If Blunket gets his plans though I am due to become a criminal around 2010. I am not going to carry a national ID card.

Me too except it will Be Charles Clarke branding us instead.

[Checkmite]

Of course, the whole "national ID card" thing is overblown and misunderstood. What's being passed is a set of standards that would be required to make a state ID card (such as a driver's license) valid ID for entering federal facilities. For example, the driver licenses that Ohio issues already comply with all of the suggested standards - so even if the bill passes, my Ohio driver license will be just fine, and future Ohio driver licenses won't look any different. When I lived in Texas, the license I had at that time had all the requirements already as well, so it wouldn't have changed either.

If your state driver license doesn't comply with the standard, all that means is that you'll have to use something else, like a passport, to enter a federal building.

[CFLarsen]

What is so bad about having an ID card?

[Luke T.]

What is so bad about having an ID card?

The concern is with who has access to the information on it and what they do with it. And we don't like the idea of the government tracking our every move and want to be able to move about freely without having to show our papers.

Plus, there is the very real threat of identity theft. A big problem here.

[Jaggy Bunnet]

What is so bad about having an ID card?

For the UK System:

£16bn to implement.

It will not work (based on much smaller, much simpler gov't IT contracts which have failed).

No-one is able to explain how it is going to stop crime or terrorism. It didn't stop the Madrid bombings, it would not have stopped the London bombings and spending £16 billion on it means there is less many to spend on things that might actually make a difference.

[Checkmite]

And we don't like the idea of the government tracking our every move...

...with a secret tracking chip hidden inside the card?

[Luke T.]

...with a secret tracking chip hidden inside the card?

What is the purpose of an ID card? What uses will it be put to? Will it have a bar code on it that is scanned every time it is used?

[Checkmite]

What is the purpose of an ID card? What uses will it be put to? Will it have a bar code on it that is scanned every time it is used?

No. My driver license has a black scan-strip on it. The only time my driver license was ever scanned in a machine was at a cigarette shop. They didn't even scan it at the airport when I went through security - they just looked at it.

Your driver license is a document which functions as evidence - that you have proven to a government body (the state government, to be sure) that you are who you claim to be. It's good enough evidence for the feds - including airport security - as long as it has certain specific information on it, like name, address, and an expiration date (which is ALL the legislation is about). Your driver license most likely fulfills all the requirements put forth in the legislation - which means that when you next renew your license, it will a) probably look exactly the same as it does now, barring any color or template changes that states like to throw up from time to time, and b) will be used exactly the way it is used now - as if this "national ID" legislation had never passed, or even been suggested.

So your card will continue to be "scanned" at places where it is currently scanned, and will continue to be only looked at in places where it is currently only looked at. Believe me, the phrase "national ID card" sort of made me double-take first time I read it, a while ago. But I looked at the legislation and decided that it's much ado about nothing. Read it and you'll see - it's one of the shortest pieces of legislation I've ever read. And all it says is, "in order for a state-issued ID to be good enough for the feds, it has to have x information on it".

[Dcdrac]

For me the big issue with an ID card is NO state has a right to claim that I belong to it, as far as I am concerned the UK jsut happens to be the country I am living in at the moment.

And before anyone bangs on at me about being unpatriotic, I have worn uniform in the service of the UK and put my life on hte line for it.

[shecky]

A "national ID" card has to use intrusive and difficult to falsify technology. And that technology has to be used. I think this is the worry.

If it's decided that the equivalent of, say, a American driver's license is good enough, then it's basically toothless.

[Checkmite]

If it's decided that the equivalent of, say, a American driver's license is good enough, then it's basically toothless.

It is quite toothless. People are afraid it is something more than what it is - but it is just like the bulk of similar legislation passed anymore - measures which accomplish nothing save furnishing the illusion that something is "being done" about the problem.

Again, the bill does not mean you'll be getting an ID or driver license that says "United States of America" on it. The bill just means that your Ohio/Texas/Vermont/Alaska/Whatever driver license will have certain information on it. Since most (if not all) driver licenses, as I've said, already contain the "necessary" information, the bill does a whole lot of nothing.