Stories of people who spent all their money preparing for the Rapture

[Puppycow]

Here's one to start (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110521/ts_nm/us_apocalypse_prediction)

In New York, at least one of Camping's followers continued to hold out hope Judgment Day would come.

Retired Metropolitan Transportation Authority worker Robert Fitzpatrick, 60, said he spent more than $140,000 of his savings on subway posters and bus shelter advertisements warning of the May 21 Judgment Day.

"God's people are commanded to sound the warning, to sound the trumpet so to speak so people know," Fitzpatrick said of his advertising blitz.

He said Camping led him to believe Judgment Day would be May 21, but added that he disagreed with the broadcaster's prediction it would begin in Asia.

In Fitzpatrick's view, from his reading of the Bible, Judgment Day would begin around 6 p.m. Eastern Time. He said on Saturday he still had no doubt Judgment Day would come this day.

"I wouldn't even entertain that question because there's too much proof from the Bible," he said.

Now what happens to these people? Will Camping give them their money back? If not, what will they do?

[triforcharity]

Maybe if they can prove he knew he was wrong, and did it anyway, they could sue for fraud? Maybe? I dunno.

A good old BeanTown Beatdown is what he deserves IMPO.

[AdMan]

Here's one to start (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110521/ts_nm/us_apocalypse_prediction)




A follow-up story on Robert Fitzpatrick, mentioned that article as still waiting for 6pm:

"I don't understand why nothing has happened," Fitzpatrick said in Times Square a few minutes after 6 p.m. "I obviously haven't understood it properly because we're still here."
[...]

Not only 6p.m., but now that 9p.m. in New York has passed, the answer is crystal clear: Doomsday ends with its followers on earth, perhaps in bewilderment and some financial crisis.


http://newyork.ibtimes.com/articles/149750/20110521/doomsday-failed-harold-camping-new-york.htm

[Björn Toulouse]

He was standing in Times Square at the appointed hour surrounded by onlookers. That had to have been a long, lonely walk home tonight.

[Loss Leader]

Maybe if they can prove he knew he was wrong, and did it anyway, they could sue for fraud? Maybe? I dunno.



There was no fraud, just a whole lot of self-delusion. These people will not allow themselves to comprehend how massively they failed. They'll just retcon an excuse and go on believing.

[AdMan]

First I've read on what Camping was up to today:

On Saturday morning, Espinoza, 60, received a phone call from her father, Harold Camping, the 89-year-old Oakland preacher who has spent some $100 million — and countless hours on his radio and TV show — announcing May 21 as Judgment Day. "He just said, 'I'm a little bewildered that it didn't happen, but it's still May 21 [in the United States],'" Espinoza said, standing in the doorway of her Alameda home. "It's going to be May 21 from now until midnight."

He must still be counting the minutes, hoping God hurries up.

And:

Tom Evans, who acted as Camping's PR aide in recent months, took his family to Ohio to await the rapture. Early next week, he said, he would be returning to California.

"You can imagine we're pretty disappointed, but the word of God is still true," he said. "We obviously went too far, and that's something we need to learn from."

Despite the failure of Camping's prediction, however, he said he might continue working for him.

"As bad as it appears—and there's no getting around it, it is bad, flat-out—I have not found anything close to the faithfulness of Family Radio," he said. :eek:


Source (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-rapture-20110522,0,5118540.story).

[Puppycow]

He was standing in Times Square at the appointed hour surrounded by onlookers. That had to have been a long, lonely walk home tonight.

Does he still have a home? Why didn't he sell it and use the money for more ads? ;)

[Björn Toulouse]

Does he still have a home? Why didn't he sell it and use the money for more ads? ;)


I meant "homeless shelter". He'll get used to calling it by the short name. :D

[ParrotPirate]

These idiots deserve whatever happens to them, and should not get any government help.

[Puppycow]

They'll just retcon an excuse and go on believing.

Yeah, we're already seeing the excuses. And of course they hold the Bible immune and unfalsifiable:

"You can imagine we're pretty disappointed, but the word of God is still true,"

Morons. :rolleyes:

[DisordeR]

This is the funniest thing ever, I'm gonna make a T-shirt that says "where we're you when the rapture happened"

[JJM 777]

Now what happens to these people? Will Camping give them their money back? If not, what will they do?
No refunds dude.

The same happens to them as if they had invested all their money on Acme Company stock, only to find out that it filed for bankruptcy the next week.

Life is such, for such. Why shouldn´t it be?

[Mr. Scott]

The rapture retards should as a group win the next Darwin Award (http://www.darwinawards.com/).

[goodm0urning]

I have a hard time feeling contempt for people whose upbringings and educations clearly did not prepare them to live in a world prowled by charlatans who gladly chisel and scam their way through life.

As for the charlatans themselves, I have a very easy time feeling contempt for them. An 89 year old preacher must not have much time left. That'll be a day to look forward to.

[pakeha]

Yes, I feel sorry for those scam victims, too.
So sorry I wrote to that disgusting site of the post Rapture Pet Care Insurance flim-flam artists asking if they were going to refund the moeny they'd received from the gullible.
The reply
X,
Our clients contracted for a ten year term.
We do not endorse the concept of rapture, that it would never happen, as is made plain on our site. Thus, why would we refund money?
We offer peace of mind to those rapture believers who care about their pets. We have every intent and the ability to fulfill our contract if we end up being wrong. How this is a scam is beyond me. But it makes no difference what you think.

This hostility of yours would best be directed at the clergy who promote and endorse the doctrine of eschatology that begat such delusional belief to begin with. It runs rampant among 40 million Americans.

So, now you "know."

[Upchurch]

Yes, I feel sorry for those scam victims, too.
So sorry I wrote to that disgusting site of the post Rapture Pet Care Insurance flim-flam artists asking if they were going to refund the moeny they'd received from the gullible.

What are you talking about? Its not a scam. I looked into it about a year ago and they are fully prepared to hold up their end of the contract should the rapture come.

Just because they are positive that they won't need to doesn't mean it's a scam.

[Nogbad]

Part of me feels kind of sad for them. This must have been an awful let down however predictable it was to the rest of us.

[Marduk]

What are you talking about? Its not a scam. I looked into it about a year ago and they are fully prepared to hold up their end of the contract should the rapture come.

kind of a grey area, if you sign up are you really sure someones going to come over to your house and pick up your pets, do they have the infrastructure to do so, the contract has two grey areas
1. The pet must be located inside the organisations service area - the geographical confines of said area are not listed, it could be the webmasters front yard for all we know
2. "Our representatives' information are held in strict confidence. ". i.e. there aren't any representatives.

For this to be genuine, you'd need to show that the organisation is capable of providing the service that it offers, and in a post rapture world, with governments collapsing and murder and mayhem all around with millions dying in the streets the promises of this company just aren't possible

So imo it is a scam, but to prove it would require a fundamentalist to admit his faith was nonsense and sue for his money back, which would never happen. But as its only scamming a small percentage of the faithful who willingly engage in a scam every sunday, who really cares. I know I don't, in the event of a rapture type scenario a pet dog could be a valuable asset to have by your side
theres good eating on one of those
:D

[Mr. Scott]

a fundamentalist to admit his faith was nonsense and sue for his money back

I predict Camping and Family Radio will be dragged into court for many lawsuits, possibly a class action.

[Mr. Scott]

Found on PZ's blog (http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/05/while_harold_camping_sits_safe.php):

The three teens have been struggling to make sense of their world, which started changing nearly two years ago when their mother, Abby Haddad Carson, left her job as a nurse to “sound the trumpet’’ on mission trips with her husband, Robert. They stopped working on their house and saving for college.

And this depressing tale:
3Vj8-_jhFAA

[Sledge]

God clearly doesn't perceive time the same way we do (Jesus supposed to return within the lifetime of his followers and still not back). With this in mind, surely the simplest explanation is that all those worthy of being taken to heaven were taken yesterday, and Jesus will be along in his own sweet time?

[pakeha]

Good eating, indeed, Marduk.
Scam or no?
I can see both points of view. I think what shocked me was the cold-bloodedness of the 'offer'. Those people were and are completely comfortable taking money off those believers.
And yes, the website is very well set up indeed to comply with existin legislation and takes into account a believer would never admit they've been taken for a ride, just as marduk says.
That said, I stand by what I wrote.
It's a filthy, detestable and deliberate scam.

[Marduk]

Good eating, indeed, Marduk.
Scam or no?
I can see both points of view. I think what shocked me was the cold-bloodedness of the 'offer'. Those people were and are completely comfortable taking money off those believers.
And yes, the website is very well set up indeed to comply with existin legislation and takes into account a believer would never admit they've been taken for a ride, just as marduk says.
That said, I stand by what I wrote.
It's a filthy, detestable and deliberate scam.
that's right
its exactly the same kind of scam that sends the collection plate around on a sunday and which solicits believers for donations to whatever, because it operates on a belief that the person with the money will somehow appear more christian and more worthy of God
see the connection, theres no assurances that the company will rescue your pets and theres no assurances that God will rescue you, its up to the belief of the mark individual
:D

[ApolloGnomon]

Their literature and signs all said "The Bible Guarantees It" so maybe they should sue the Bible.

[Rasmus]

Okay, so we are assigning some responsibility to him, because his deluded believers cannot be held accountable for their own actions.

How is he any less of a deluded believer than his followers? Why should his beliefs not excuse him just as much?

[Good Lt]

First I've read on what Camping was up to today:

"You can imagine we're pretty disappointed, but the word of God is still true," he said.


Source (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-rapture-20110522,0,5118540.story).JESUS TAPDANCING CHRIST, folks. :hit:

[HansMustermann]

I dunno... weren't you the same one who was given the whole blame to the psychic and none to the victim for psychics? Doesn't it matter there if the psychic is himself a deluded fool who believes in his own l33t powers? :p

But, really, I don't think most of us absolve either of blame. Sure, the deluded fools who believed him, are still deluded fools. But he's still the one who told them to do the dumb stuff they did. I don't see how he can be absolved of resposibility there.

[Denver]

A quote above mentioned Camping spent $100 million on the rapture announcements, but I don't think that was accurate:

Trumpeting the apocalypse doesn't come cheap. Family Radio spent as much as $1 million on the billboard campaign. It can afford to. Camping's radio network was worth about $22 million in 2002 -- by 2008 it was valued at more than $117 million.

Source = (CBS News) How Harold Camping marketed the Rapture (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/05/20/eveningnews/main20064856.shtml)

I predict Camping and Family Radio will be dragged into court for many lawsuits, possibly a class action.

He may be dragged into court, but I don't think the lawsuits would prevail. He doesn't seem to have said anywhere that he or his companies would give people anything for their donations. The purpose of familyradio.com seems to be to evangelize, and I expect they did use the money for that (in one way or the other), so I don't think they committed any obvious fraud regarding the donations.

Okay, so we are assigning some responsibility to him, because his deluded believers cannot be held accountable for their own actions.

How is he any less of a deluded believer than his followers? Why should his beliefs not excuse him just as much?

He may be. Though, I have noticed the donations link on his web site remained active all through his rapture time-frame, and is in fact still available.

[Rasmus]

I dunno... weren't you the same one who was given the whole blame to the psychic and none to the victim for psychics? Doesn't it matter there if the psychic is himself a deluded fool who believes in his own l33t powers? :p

But, really, I don't think most of us absolve either of blame. Sure, the deluded fools who believed him, are still deluded fools. But he's still the one who told them to do the dumb stuff they did. I don't see how he can be absolved of resposibility there.

Yes, I was.

But a psychic offers a service - they need to make sure they can deliver. I think that does make a difference.

[Temporal Renegade]

Going over Craig's List this weekend, there were a few ads for people giving away, FOR FREE, big-screen TVs and the like. Not sure if they're connected to the Rapture, but seemed a bit odd.

[Denver]

If I were the judge in any of the suggested lawsuits, I think when the lawsuit failed, I would tell the individuals that they should take some solace that, in this case, they were deceived by a Harold Camping, and not a Jim Jones. At least they get a chance to learn from their error.

[I Ratant]

A number of good true christians maxed out their credit cards, in the expectation of not paying them off.
That's fraud and theft.
No wonder they didn't get raptu

[Jono]

Lawsuits may follow... but Camping didn't really twist any arms for suckers to throw money around at every single doomsday nonsense that comes along. I would like to see some brains arrested for vagrancy though.

[pakeha]

Okay, so we are assigning some responsibility to him, because his deluded believers cannot be held accountable for their own actions.

How is he any less of a deluded believer than his followers? Why should his beliefs not excuse him just as much?

I can't agree with you there.
The reply the fellah wrote me, which I posted above, is pretty clear on the subject of his beliefs.

edited- sorry, I might have misunderstood you! I thought you refered to the aminal protection racket fellah, not the camping creature.

[Sun Countess]

I can't feel too bad for people spending all their money on billboards, because they got their billboards. It's not like Camping was billing people for express tickets to heaven. If that were the case, they should get their money back.

In one of the stories linked in one of the threads here, one of the supporters was racking up his credit cards as he toured the country with his family (wanted to see it before the rapture). How could anyone possibly feel sorry for somebody who thought he was essentially stealing, because he was borrowing money to buy and do things, with no intention of ever paying for them? Now he has to go home to a pile of bills with no excuses.

[AdMan]

Yes, I feel sorry for those scam victims, too.
So sorry I wrote to that disgusting site of the post Rapture Pet Care Insurance flim-flam artists asking if they were going to refund the moeny they'd received from the gullible.



I agree it's taking advantage of people's gullibility so can't really condone it, but that's what churches do constantly. It's nothing new to the people who paid up.

Plus I read about Rapturees who were planning on euthanizing their pets prior to the 21st. If this saved some animals' lives, I'm all for it.

[Rasmus]

I agree it's taking advantage of people's gullibility so can't really condone it, but that's what churches do constantly. It's nothing new to the people who paid up.

So which church exactly declares that it doesn't believe in the basic premises their offers are built upon?

I really don't see the scam - assuming the organization really has the capabilities to collect all the pets in due time.

I don't see a need to have services prepared for a major break down of society, either - unless they claim they are able to do that as well. There are several sites out there making similar promises - one I saw said with the majority of people unsaved and left behind, civilization would go on.

This is of course debatable - but doesn't make their promise a scam.

It also has nothing to do with what the customers believe - they are not buying the rapture, they are buying a service to be performed after the rapture - if and when it occurs.

[I Ratant]

So which church exactly declares that it doesn't believe in the basic premises their offers are built upon?
...
.
None of them.
But any scholar examining the basic foundations of any church/religion just has to see the lack of any substance to the faith, other than belief itself.
Wishful thinking, and then comes the fraud.
Centuries of fraud.

[Rasmus]

.
None of them.
But any scholar examining the basic foundations of any church/religion just has to see the lack of any substance to the faith, other than belief itself.
Wishful thinking, and then comes the fraud.
Centuries of fraud.

But the animal rescuers are not telling any untruths, are they?

Assuming they really did take the trouble to prepare for the mass-disappearance of pet-owners, of course - this could easily be estimated by looking at how much they are charging for the service and how much you could reasonably expect as costs for providing the service.

[Good Lt]

Here we are, long past the time when the rapture was supposed to have destroyed the world, and we're still not able to access their site.

http://www.familyradio.com/

I was looking forward to some explanations today, but we're apparently not going to get them from Rapture Central, it appears.

I do feel bad for one of my old high school classmates, who was posting this group's nonsense on Facebook for months now.

Today, she issued an apology for "proclaiming a gospel that was not true" for the past several months, but was quick to add that it changed nothing and that God is perfect and his word is infallible, etc.

:boggled:

[Good Lt]

(mistakenly posted the above reply as a comment instead of a new thread, which I added to the forum. Sorry)

[Redtail]

A lady here at the RenFaire gave her booth away to some "poor soul". Luckily her daughter set the thing up with a friend so they are giving it back.

As for the pets, we at the "cat ranch" (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=134873&highlight=ranch) were contacted by a group that said they were doing the same thing as the group mentioned earlier* asking if we could take on some more cats.

*It may be the same group but idk. I just left a message asking if they still have the email.

[qayak]

this is the funniest thing ever, i'm gonna make a t-shirt that says "where we're you when the rapture didn't happen"

ftfy

[HansMustermann]

Actually, I find his original version funnier. Because the implication as I read it is that, yes, there was a rapture but you (the one reading the t-shirt) didn't make the cut.

[RhodyDave]

It's sad and a little funny too how religion can cause so much suffering by fostering belief in the gullible and superstitious. I don't have much sympathy for these fools who gave everything away convinced that the Rapture would whisk them up to heaven. I do feel pity for the children of those fools though.

Are there any believers in the Rapture who are here? I would love to hear their thoughts on all this.

[I Ratant]

But the animal rescuers are not telling any untruths, are they?

Assuming they really did take the trouble to prepare for the mass-disappearance of pet-owners, of course - this could easily be estimated by looking at how much they are charging for the service and how much you could reasonably expect as costs for providing the service.
.
Opportunists taking advantage of the gullible. It's not just an anti-christian thing, everyone does it, christians included.
Is there a fee for cancelling the service to get the pet back today? :)

[TimCallahan]

The twit in New York who spent his life savings of $140,000 got the advertising he paid for. He can have no expectation of reimbursement from Camping or anyone else. However, I think the husband of the woman who tried to kill her daughters and herself might have a shot at a liability suit against Camping. I'm sure he could get an attorney to take the case on contingency (i.e. for free), and Camping must have pretty deep pockets.

[dafydd]

Camping should be captured,not raptured.

[TragicMonkey]

Camping should be captured,not raptured.

Camping would rather decamp than be captured for not rapturing; this would be preferable because the alternative for Camping decamping is to be captured and ruptured for not rapturing, and it would interrupt his nuptials to be ruptured.

[ParrotPirate]

I have a hard time feeling contempt for people whose upbringings and educations clearly did not prepare them to live in a world prowled by charlatans who gladly chisel and scam their way through life.

As for the charlatans themselves, I have a very easy time feeling contempt for them. An 89 year old preacher must not have much time left. That'll be a day to look forward to.

Maybe not contempt, but certainly not sympathy. They deserve whatever happens to them. They brought it on themselves, by following blindly and not thinking for themselves. No-one that quit a job should get it back.

[paiute]

Does he still have a home? Why didn't he sell it and use the money for more ads? ;)

Well isn't that nice. We didn't get our Rapture because this guy didn't believe hard enough to go all in. Way to ruin it for everybody, jerk.

[Björn Toulouse]

Does he still have a home?


Guess he does have one after all.



Meanwhile, Robert Fitzpatrick, a Camping follower who blew his life savings to advertise the ‘Doomsday’ prediction message, suffered public humiliation and jeering as he waited for the fateful hour in Time Square, New York City.

“I didn't water my plants, I didn't do my dishes before I left. I didn't expect to go back home," said Fitzpatrick after the 'Doomsday' failure, before he headed back to his Staten Island home from Time Square, reported the New York Post.



Maybe his plants were lucky enough to get raptured.

There's a video of Fitzpatrick being confronted by hecklers in Times Square on this page (http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/150347/20110523/may-21st-doomsday-prediction.htm).

[AvalonXQ]

The twit in New York who spent his life savings of $140,000 got the advertising he paid for. He can have no expectation of reimbursement from Camping or anyone else.

If he could prove that Camping knew he was lying, he might have a claim.

[Polaris]

I can't feel too bad for people spending all their money on billboards, because they got their billboards. It's not like Camping was billing people for express tickets to heaven. If that were the case, they should get their money back.

In one of the stories linked in one of the threads here, one of the supporters was racking up his credit cards as he toured the country with his family (wanted to see it before the rapture). How could anyone possibly feel sorry for somebody who thought he was essentially stealing, because he was borrowing money to buy and do things, with no intention of ever paying for them? Now he has to go home to a pile of bills with no excuses.

And with his blatantly admitting all this, he's not going to be able to file bankruptcy - no judge would allow it. I find this hilarious.

[Cainkane1]

jehovah Witneses used to predict the end of the world all the time.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/witness8.htm

[TimCallahan]

If he could prove that Camping knew he was lying, he might have a claim.

You're probably right. The sticking point is proving Camping a liar. I'm not even sure he is.

[Puppycow]

You're probably right. The sticking point is proving Camping a liar. I'm not even sure he is.

Live blog (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/23/harold-camping-speaks_n_865867.html).

Reporter, after hearing Camping talk about his studies of the Bible, asks Camping if he is saying that "we as humans are not capable of understanding the Bible?"

"You are correct," says Camping. He starts telling a story from the Bible about Saul.

But that contradicts "the Bible guarantees it" unless he isn't human himself.

[Puppycow]

Today 10:29 AM Camping Doesn't Take Responsibility for Followers' Actions

Reporter, speaking of a May 21 follower: "How do you feel about this woman who tried to take her life and her own daughters' life?"

Camping hears incorrectly and thinks that somebody committed suicide.

Camping: "She attempted to? Oh my that makes me feel better because death is terrible. It's contrary to all that the Bible teaches."

Reporter: "Do you think any responsibility for that?"

Camping says he does "not take responsibility. I don't have spiritual rule of anybody, except my wife," he chuckles. "Because as head of the household I have spiritual rule over my wife."

What a piece of work.

[Sledge]

We're not capable of understanding the Bible, and here's a Bible story that proves it? I... he... how... what?

[Denver]

He just (kind of) apologized:

After being asked again and again if he will apologize for being wrong about May 21, Camping finally does.

"If people want me to apologize, I will apologize...I did not have all that worked out as accurately as I should have had it. That doesn't bother me at all."

Camping reiterates that he still believes Judgment Day came -- just quietly.

[TimCallahan]

You're probably right. The sticking point is proving Camping a liar. I'm not even sure he is.

I should clarify my last point. It's difficult to know to what degree Camping's obvious intellectual dishonesty springs from a deluded system of belief and to what degree it's simply out and out lying. I'm going to opt for self delusion. However, I suspect his self delusion engenders a lot of dishonesty in the process of maintaining itself.

The difficulty would be proving dishonesty under the law.

[Puppycow]

I should clarify my last point. It's difficult to know to what degree Camping's obvious intellectual dishonesty springs from a deluded system of belief and to what degree it's simply out and out lying. I'm going to opt for self delusion. However, I suspect his self delusion engenders a lot of dishonesty in the process of maintaining itself.

The difficulty would be proving dishonesty under the law.

Plus you run into freedom of religion issues.

[AvalonXQ]

Plus you run into freedom of religion issues.

Freedom of religion doesn't protect you from being guilty of fraud if you damage someone by saying something that you know to be a lie.

[Brainache]

Freedom of religion doesn't protect you from being guilty of fraud if you damage someone by saying something that you know to be a lie.

So if a preacher loses his faith, no longer believes in Heaven, Hell and God's judgement, but he goes on preaching those things, threatening others with eternal damnation etc, would that make him guilty of fraud? Maybe if someone in his congregation could prove that all the Hellfire preaching caused some kind of stress/anxiety problems?

[Tim Harrod]

http://www.whatstheharm.net (http://www.whatstheharm.net/) needs a new section.

[drzeus99]

Camping would rather decamp than be captured for not rapturing; this would be preferable because the alternative for Camping decamping is to be captured and ruptured for not rapturing, and it would interrupt his nuptials to be ruptured.

Easy for YOU to say ;)

[Seismosaurus]

And now he has a body count. (http://www.christianpost.com/news/fearful-teen-commits-suicide-due-to-harold-campings-rapture-50542/)

A 14-year-old girl from Russia was so scared of the May 21 doomsday and rapture prediction made by Harold Camping that she committed suicide the same day, investigators said Wednesday. The teenager wanted to choose death rather than be among the ones suffering on earth after the rapture.

For those who think Dawkins is being silly when he says religious indoctrination of children can be considered as child abuse... this is the kind of thing he means.

[Autolite]

Yes, I feel sorry for those scam victims, too.
So sorry I wrote to that disgusting site of the post Rapture Pet Care Insurance flim-flam artists asking if they were going to refund the moeny they'd received from the gullible.

These guys are at least being on the level with their clients. They're more honest than your average insurance company that bends over back wards to avoid honoring legitimate claims...

[coalesce]

He just (kind of) apologized:

After being asked again and again if he will apologize for being wrong about May 21, Camping finally does.

"If people want me to apologize, I will apologize...I did not have all that worked out as accurately as I should have had it. That doesn't bother me at all."

Camping reiterates that he still believes Judgment Day came -- just quietly.

To wit, I add...

Michael

[westprog]

And now he has a body count. (http://www.christianpost.com/news/fearful-teen-commits-suicide-due-to-harold-campings-rapture-50542/)



For those who think Dawkins is being silly when he says religious indoctrination of children can be considered as child abuse... this is the kind of thing he means.

It leads people to just believe what they're told.

[Björn Toulouse]

And here's another (http://www.wsbtv.com/nationalnews/28091388/detail.html) story.

I just wish that old coot could read the threads here on JREF.

[westprog]

And here's another (http://www.wsbtv.com/nationalnews/28091388/detail.html) story.

I just wish that old coot could read the threads here on JREF.

While it was a stupid use of the woman's money, it was her money and she had the right to do what she liked with it. When someone sacrifices their life to look after an elderly relative and they get stiffed in the will, that's unjust. When the person gives their money to some crazy cause, that's hard luck. It would have been the same if she'd left it to Planned Parenthood or the Tea Party.

[AdMan]

BTW, the Freedom From Religion Foundation has called for the California attorney general "to investigate how many innocent people may have suffered financially, emotionally and physically due to Pastor Harold Camping's $100 million campaign predicting Armageddon on May 21."

http://ffrf.org/news/releases/ffrf-calls-for-fraud-probe-into-rapture-campaign/

[Nursefoxfire]

BTW, the Freedom From Religion Foundation has called for the California attorney general "to investigate how many innocent people may have suffered financially, emotionally and physically due to Pastor Harold Camping's $100 million campaign predicting Armageddon on May 21."

http://ffrf.org/news/releases/ffrf-calls-for-fraud-probe-into-rapture-campaign/

from the FFRF letter:

"Camping did not commit deceit and fraud in being wrong about the date of the Rapture; the question to be determined is whether he may have committed deceit or fraud in persuading his followers to donate often large sums of money to his organization based on a claim — that the world would definitely end on May 21, 2011, and that he needed to advertise this 'fact' — while objectively conducting his business as though he knew it to be untrue."

I especially like this argument. It's not that he's a crazy old coot, it's that he swindled people into donating their life savings - a true "predatory charity".

[Polaris]

While it was a stupid use of the woman's money, it was her money and she had the right to do what she liked with it. When someone sacrifices their life to look after an elderly relative and they get stiffed in the will, that's unjust. When the person gives their money to some crazy cause, that's hard luck. It would have been the same if she'd left it to Planned Parenthood or the Tea Party.

They were each left $25,000. That's more than enough to buy a lot of tar, feathers and shotgun shells.

[epix]

The difficulty would be proving dishonesty under the law.
When Camping pulled the trick in 1994, someone said that the atheists would spin an education tornado, so the next time Camping's cash cow couldn't be milked. But the atheists predictably failed, as they have not enough wits to outsmart veteran theists like Camping who went for the second round laughing the Atheist Armada off. "The more 'In God We Trust' you have, the more you trust in God."

[slingblade]

When Camping pulled the trick in 1994, someone said that the atheists would spin an education tornado, so the next time Camping's cash cow couldn't be milked. But the atheists predictably failed, as they have not enough wits to outsmart veteran theists like Camping who went for the second round laughing the Atheist Armada off. "The more 'In God We Trust' you have, the more you trust in God."


Unless you can come up with the quote, and the author, instead of "someone said," there's no reason to think you didn't make this up out of whole cloth, in order to get in an undeserved dig at atheists.

It's not our job to make anyone accept information. And it's certainly not our fault that the theists who did fall for this failed to remember that it's not Camping's first dance at the hoedown.

Epix fail, as usual.

[epix]

Unless you can come up with the quote, and the author, instead of "someone said," there's no reason to think you didn't make this up out of whole cloth, in order to get in an undeserved dig at atheists.

Sweetie it was way back in 1994, so I don't remember exactly who said that. But out of my turbulent love for your yummy mini muffins and you as well, I searched my memory with a candelous flashlight and narrowed the source of the quote: the author was either Paris Hilton or Archangel Gabriel.

[epix]

It's not our job to make anyone accept information. And it's certainly not our fault that the theists who did fall for this failed to remember that it's not Camping's first dance at the hoedown.

Epix fail, as usual.

Out of one dough made them bickers, Bills (http://www.blingdomofgod.com/billboard.jpg) and Boards (http://vicksburgdailynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/may-21-2011-rapture-billboard-300x184.jpg) of Peculiar Faith.

But the blue one was sprinkled by the Crafty One and his intent, for it said May 21, which is short for May the prediction fail for the second time, as it did for the first time.

Catch 22: You need to confer with that dude from Genesis 3:1 to defeat the religion defunct, but since it's regarded as a fairy tale, religions will flurish to the joy of the little angels who blow their trumpets in unadultarated smirky joy whenever the atheists raise money to raise another uninspiring billboard.

The billboards have risen, Heavenly Father.

Very good. Operation Billboard Rapture was a success. LOL.

[shadron]

When Camping pulled the trick in 1994, someone said that the atheists would spin an education tornado, so the next time Camping's cash cow couldn't be milked. But the atheists predictably failed, as they have not enough wits to outsmart veteran theists like Camping who went for the second round laughing the Atheist Armada off. "The more 'In God We Trust' you have, the more you trust in God."

Is it also your opinion that in the long run the whole "Camping event", from 1994 to present (and presumbly continuing into Halloween, and possibly with repercussions to follow) is going to be a gross increment to theism as a human endeavor? I rather think the opposite.

[timhau]

JESUS TAPDANCING CHRIST, folks. :hit:

No.

That's just the problem. No Jesus Tapdancing Christ on May 21st.

[epix]

Is it also your opinion that in the long run the whole "Camping event", from 1994 to present (and presumbly continuing into Halloween, and possibly with repercussions to follow) is going to be a gross increment to theism as a human endeavor? I rather think the opposite.
Why would it be? The disconnection between what I said and your question is way too apparent for forming an opinion of this kind. But I can predict that a week or so before October 21, the media will not bemuse themselves the way they did before May 21. The only folks who will gingerly attend to the sequel are the atheists who will again link Camping with religion in general and will keep reassuring one another about the utter failure of it.

There is a time point in the May 21 and October 21 period and the point is August 13. That's the most likely the date of Camping actually "rising."

[slingblade]

Sweetie it was way back in 1994, so I don't remember exactly who said that. But out of my turbulent love for your yummy mini muffins and you as well, I searched my memory with a candelous flashlight and narrowed the source of the quote: the author was either Paris Hilton or Archangel Gabriel.

Poopie, it's all just nonsense.

[epix]

Poopie, it's all just nonsense.
Where did that lucid moment come from? You are perfectly right saying that the atheists engage themselves in nonsensical activity of persuading the theists to quit the church by calling them delusional. There are only a few converts to atheism, like you, who would admit to themselves that for the better part of their adult life they were stupid enough to believe in a fairy tale.

[RossFW]

There are only a few converts to atheism, like you, who would admit to themselves that for the better part of their adult life they were stupid enough to believe in a fairy tale.

Yeah- that's because most people STAY stupid....

[epix]

Yeah- that's because most people STAY stupid....
. . . even if they quit the church on Sunday and become the atheists on Monday. Can't get rid of the old habit. LOL. You can run but you can't hide: run away from Camping right into the arms of a mortgage broker and his miraculous deal.

[RossFW]

. . . even if they quit the church on Sunday and become the atheists on Monday. Can't get rid of the old habit. LOL. You can run but you can't hide: run away from Camping right into the arms of a mortgage broker and his miraculous deal.

Ermm- You DO understand that you rarely make any sense, right?

[AdMan]

Ermm- You DO understand that you rarely make any sense, right?


That's what the "Huh?" in his signature is there for. To avoid you having to type it in.

He also should add "epix fail" to his sig because he also does that consistently.

[PadainFain]

I haven't ready this thread thoroughly but I heard on the radio the other night that in the UK an Atheist set up a home for the pets of people who were going to be Raptured, and didn't offer refunds. :rolleyes:


Could've just been a joke but it made me laugh! :p

[slingblade]

Where did that lucid moment come from?

Your insults are quite childish. And reportable.



You are perfectly right saying that the atheists engage themselves in nonsensical activity of persuading the theists to quit the church by calling them delusional.

I never said that. Why do you need to lie?

At any rate, it is true that telling someone they're delusional probably won't convince them of anything, and isn't helpful.


There are only a few converts to atheism, like you, who would admit to themselves that for the better part of their adult life they were stupid enough to believe in a fairy tale.

Yes, I certainly was just that stupid. I'm much better, now that I know there is no god, no heaven, no hell, and no other fairy tales to believe in.



. . . even if they quit the church on Sunday and become the atheists on Monday. Can't get rid of the old habit. LOL. You can run but you can't hide: run away from Camping right into the arms of a mortgage broker and his miraculous deal.

You're not talking to me. I don't own a home. I have no mortgage. I also don't have a credit card, a cell phone, or a car loan.

Did you, in actuality, have a point?

[Tricky]

When Camping pulled the trick in 1994, someone said that the atheists would spin an education tornado, so the next time Camping's cash cow couldn't be milked. But the atheists predictably failed, as they have not enough wits to outsmart veteran theists like Camping who went for the second round laughing the Atheist Armada off. "The more 'In God We Trust' you have, the more you trust in God."
It's quote possible that "someone" said that. There are a lot of people in the world, and it wouldn't be the first time that "someone" became overly optimistic. But mark this in your journal for October or 2012 or whenever the next apocalypse is scheduled:

This atheist believes that failure of Camping's prediction won't cause any "education tornado" or any other sort of mass exodus from theism. It will have an effect, but that effect will be tiny and gradual, indeed hardly noticeable. It is only long periods of time and the incremental effect of many such failed predictions that will add up to a significant shift in the percentage of atheists in the US, and the effect may even be overshadowed by other events or societal changes. But bit by bit, it is happening. Just as evidence-based beliefs have slowly taken over most fields of science, they will eventually erode theism down to a core of fanatical, eyes-wide-shut believers. It won't happen in our lifetimes or even our children's, but it will happen. The Chicxulub asteroid didn't wipe out the dinosaurs the next day. These things take time.

[epix]

It's quote possible that "someone" said that. There are a lot of people in the world, and it wouldn't be the first time that "someone" became overly optimistic. But mark this in your journal for October or 2012 or whenever the next apocalypse is scheduled:

This atheist believes that failure of Camping's prediction won't cause any "education tornado" or any other sort of mass exodus from theism. It will have an effect, but that effect will be tiny and gradual, indeed hardly noticeable. It is only long periods of time and the incremental effect of many such failed predictions that will add up to a significant shift in the percentage of atheists in the US, and the effect may even be overshadowed by other events or societal changes.
Your prediction regarding the incremental effect of Camping-like failures on atheism is as much fallacious as Camping's attempt to predict dates. You forgot to realize that the majority of theists are intelligent folks who know that Camping's primitive play with numbers are not the word of God. The effect of similar failures to predict stuff will be in the category that is forming under the label "Belief in a spirit or life force," which is quite strong and creates a majority in ten European countries. Organized religion is vulnerable to the action of the higher ups called clergy or ministries. So if there is more sex scandals or failed predictions, some folks simply quit the church but not their belief. Only folks without any self-respect quit their belief to become atheists within 48 hours.

[epix]

You're not talking to me. I don't own a home. I have no mortgage. I also don't have a credit card, a cell phone, or a car loan.

Did you, in actuality, have a point?
Yes, I do. I think you take your mission of being an atheists too seriously and your animosity toward the words "In God We Trust" prevent you to own a home, to have a credit card, a cell phone... all those cool things that capitalize the first letter of Life.

Apart from that... You know that you were right about the poetry -- like that it doesn't require rhymes? Most contemporary lyrics don't rhyme at all. There is a Latino song with only one rhyme. Check it out:

Pater noster, qui es in caelis:
sanctificetur Nomen Tuum;
adveniat Regnum Tuum;
fiat voluntas Tua,
sicut in caelo, et in terra.
Panem nostrum cotidianum da nobis hodie;
et dimitte nobis debita nostra,
sicut et nos dimittimus debitoribus nostris;
et ne nos inducas in tentationem;
sed libera nos a Malo.

The old fashioned lyrics did rhyme - sort of:

Oh Lord, won't you buy me
a Mercedes Benz
My friends all drive Porsches
I must make amends
Worked hard all my lifetime
no help from my friends
So Lord, won't you buy me
a Mercedes Benz

Oh Lord, won't you buy me
a color TV
"DIALING FOR Dollars"
is trying to find me
I wait for delivery
each day until three
So oh Lord, won't you buy me
a color TV

Oh Lord, won't you buy me
a night on the town
I'm counting on you, lord
please don't let me down
Prove that you love me
and buy the next round
Oh Lord, won't you buy me
a night on the town

Everybody
Oh Lord, won't you buy me
a Mercedes Benz
My friends all drive Porsches
I must make amends
I Worked all my lifetime
no help from my friends
So Lord, won't you buy me
a Mercedes Benz


Which song do you like better?

[slingblade]

Yes, I do. I think you take your mission of being an atheists too seriously and your animosity toward the words "In God We Trust" prevent you to own a home, to have a credit card, a cell phone... all those cool things that capitalize the first letter of Life.

I don't own a home, because I prefer the freedom of being mobile. I can pick up whenever I like and go someplace new. In fact, I just moved across the country. Our kids want to join us here, but they can't.

You see, they all have mortgages, and no freedom of movement. They are stuck with houses they're sorry they bought, but now can't unload. I'm not stuck. I'm free.

I don't have a credit card, because debt is STUPID. My ex made us bankrupt twice. That's twenty years. From that, I learned that debt is STUPID. If I don't have the money on me, I can't afford whatever it is. I paid $400 cash for our car last year, and it brought us across the country without a breakdown. My ex, meanwhile, is now filing his third bankruptcy, and facing his fourth home foreclosure. Who's smarter?

I don't have a cell phone because I like not being available 24/7. If I'm not home, you can't call me. Leave a message.


Apart from that... You know that you were right about the poetry

Yes. I know. I'm a prize-winning, published poet. Yes, I know I'm right about poetry.

By the way, here is the sum total of my "atheist mission."

There is no god.

Not much of a mission, really, is it?

[epix]

I don't own a home, because I prefer the freedom of being mobile.
You can compromise and live in a lovely mansion in Mobile, Alabama.

I don't have a credit card, because debt is STUPID. My ex made us bankrupt twice. That's twenty years. From that, I learned that debt is STUPID.
If I don't have the money on me, I can't afford whatever it is. I paid $400 cash for our car last year, and it brought us across the country without a breakdown. My ex, meanwhile, is now filing his third bankruptcy, and facing his fourth home foreclosure. Who's smarter?

So why did you become an atheist, bought a car trying to run away from the words of wisdom?

And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
Matthew 6:12

Ironically enough, it was the huge debt that canceled the latest Rapture:

•The size of the total consumer debt grew nearly five times in size from 1980 ($355 billion) to 2001 ($1.7 trillion). Consumer debt in 2010 now stands at $2.4 trillion.
•The average household in 2010 carried nearly $6,500 in credit card debt.

Ben Bernanke said it didn't take much time to convince God about the dire consequences of the predicted exodus, even though God argued a bit citing Matthew 6:12. But when Bernanke pointed out that it's all a Bible talk, God admitted that it was so, and canceled the May 21 activities, but He made a provision regarding October 21. God said that only those faithful ones who take Matthew 18:25 seriously and are therefore free of any sinful ownership will rise to the heaven that day. I wish you a wonderful vertical trip...


I don't have a cell phone because I like not being available 24/7. If I'm not home, you can't call me. Leave a message.

You don't need it anyway -- you are leaving on October 21.

[slingblade]

You can compromise and live in a lovely mansion in Mobile, Alabama.

No, not really. Mansions are for suckers. The house ends up owning you.

So why did you become an atheist, bought a car trying to run away from the words of wisdom?

I bought the car last year. I stopped believing in god 10 years ago.
I moved. Do you have some kind of problem? Not with me, I just mean in general.

And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
Matthew 6:12

The bible's crap.

Ironically enough, it was the huge debt that canceled the latest Rapture:

No. The fact that there's no god is what cancelled that non-event.


You don't need it anyway -- you are leaving on October 21.

And when I post here on October 22, where will you be?

[epix]

I bought the car last year. I stopped believing in god 10 years ago.
I moved. Do you have some kind of problem? Not with me, I just mean in general.

I don't have any problems indigenous to the folks who switch silly affiliations naively thinking that things get better. When no worky, they buy cars to run away from themselves. Obviously no worky either.

You just had a wrong attitude and sheepishly hung up. Here's what you do:

You have reached the Holy Offices of God. No one is currently available to answer your call. Please leave your name...

Michael!!! Pick up the damn phone! I know you are in there, you lazy squirrel!

[slingblade]

I don't have any problems indigenous to the folks who switch silly affiliations naively thinking that things get better. When no worky, they buy cars to run away from themselves. Obviously no worky either.

Or they buy cars to get to work.

How much harder are you going to work to try to connect the ordinary act of buying a $400 Toyota last May, with my atheism, which happened 10 years ago?

Does it really bother you that much that I don't believe in god?
Why? What difference could it possibly make to you?

No matter where you go, there you are. You can't run away from yourself. Most of us learn this pretty young. Did you miss it, somehow?

[AdMan]

slingblade, I admire you for not giving up on trying to have a coherent discussion with this guy.

[Dr. Keith]

slingblade, I admire you for not giving up on trying to have a coherent discussion with this guy.

Agreed, but there is no reason to carry on. The effort is wasted on this one.

[Roadtoad]

It's too bad we can't make any more noise about this. Camping is a long time fraud, whose "prophecies" have failed at every turn. That the innocent suffer as they do time and again because of it is unconscionable. That he continues to spew his filth as though nothing has happened is even worse.

Time for a beat down, intellectually speaking, methinks.

[epix]

How much harder are you going to work to try to connect the ordinary act of buying a $400 Toyota last May, with my atheism, which happened 10 years ago?

Let's see the opposites . . .

Theism is to Atheism as X is to Y.

:confused:


In fact, I just moved across the country.


Theism is to Atheism as East Coast is to West Coast.

:) What other opposites are you going to deploy for your ultimate salvation?


Does it really bother you that much that I don't believe in god?
Why? What difference could it possibly make to you?

LOL. Where did you get this idea from? I can care less. But do you know that if you put the recipe for mini muffins inside the Bible close to the Book of Isaiah overnight, they come out of the oven the next day like if they were blessed? The Bible tricks are awesome.

I think the Bible affected your poetry for good. The verses don't rhyme, so doesn't your poetry. That's why the poetry of the real atheists always rhymes.

[Elypsis44]

You don't need it anyway -- you are leaving on October 21.

:rolleyes:

[epix]

:rolleyes:
What are you trying to see up there? I said slingblade would rise on October 21, not today.

[John Jones]

. . . even if they quit the church on Sunday and become the atheists on Monday. Can't get rid of the old habit. LOL. You can run but you can't hide: run away from Camping right into the arms of a mortgage broker and his miraculous deal.


This looks like a false dichotomy fallacy, but I don't pretend to follow your thoughts.

[slingblade]

What other opposites are you going to deploy for your ultimate salvation?

If there's anything to be saved from, I can do it for myself.


...by the way, your obsession with me is starting to get pretty creepy. You might want to chill.

[epix]

This looks like a false dichotomy fallacy, but I don't pretend to follow your thoughts.
Run away from Camping right into the arms of a mortgage broker and his miraculous deal doesn't really imply two mutually exclusive options necessary for the qualifier.

False dichotomy loves the presence of "either" and "or." Example: Either the atheists fulfill their mission and free the world from the delusion of theism, or the world degenerates to become defunct whilst experiencing upheavals of Biblical proportions.

[timhau]

Camping is a long time fraud, whose "prophecies" have failed at every turn.

One of the local papers called Camping "an experienced end-of-the-world prophet". That's like "senior kamikaze pilot" or "retired suicide bomber".

[Explorer]

But do you know that if you put the recipe for mini muffins inside the Bible close to the Book of Isaiah overnight, they come out of the oven the next day like if they were blessed? The Bible tricks are awesome.

Are you mad?

[Warmer1]

But do you know that if you put the recipe for mini muffins inside the Bible close to the Book of Isaiah overnight, they come out of the oven the next day like if they were blessed? The Bible tricks are awesome.


Also, if you put your Bible in the oven with the mini muffins they come out of the oven the next day with a nice smoky flavor, like if they were smoky.

[Roadtoad]

One of the local papers called Camping "an experienced end-of-the-world prophet". That's like "senior kamikaze pilot" or "retired suicide bomber".

You are correct, Sir![/McMahon]

[epix]

Are you mad?
Not as much as you and the rest of the Pseudo-Rational Brotherhood of Lost Causes led by the high priest Dawkins.

[epix]

...by the way, your obsession with me is starting to get pretty creepy. You might want to chill.
... by the way, you should cut down on your wishful thinking. :rolleyes:

I think you are very helpful in understanding all the subtleties that go into the meaning of "evidence."


There is no god.


There has to be some evidence of that denial, no?


I paid $400 cash for our car last year, and it brought us across the country without a breakdown.

[Tricky]

Your prediction regarding the incremental effect of Camping-like failures on atheism is as much fallacious as Camping's attempt to predict dates. You forgot to realize that the majority of theists are intelligent folks who know that Camping's primitive play with numbers are not the word of God.
That may be true, but when those intelligent theists see how badly somebody can screw up while reading the same book as them, some of them may actually pause to consider the rationality of their own beliefs. Not all. Maybe not many. But some.

The effect of similar failures to predict stuff will be in the category that is forming under the label "Belief in a spirit or life force," which is quite strong and creates a majority in ten European countries.
That sentence makes no sense, though it seems to be sort of in the area as the same old "fallacy of popularity" that we are all so familiar with.

Organized religion is vulnerable to the action of the higher ups called clergy or ministries. So if there is more sex scandals or failed predictions, some folks simply quit the church but not their belief.
Some. Others actually reconsider their beliefs that allowed them to fall for such charlatans.

Only folks without any self-respect quit their belief to become atheists within 48 hours.
That's true. People rarely decide on deep philosophical positions in a short time. Even those who are "saved" at revivals either have thought about it for a long time, or will think about it a lot afterward before they establish a position. And as I said, the secularization of America is a very slow and gradual process, but as tenacious and inexorable as erosion.

[slingblade]

... by the way, you should cut down on your wishful thinking. :rolleyes:

I think you are very helpful in understanding all the subtleties that go into the meaning of "evidence."



There has to be some evidence of that denial, no?

Yup, the complete lack of evidence for the existence of same.

What the hell is with you and my car? Cripes, it's just a beater.
Are you obsessed with that, now, too?

[godless dave]

I have a hard time feeling contempt for people whose upbringings and educations clearly did not prepare them to live in a world prowled by charlatans who gladly chisel and scam their way through life.


How about contempt for the people who brought them up that way?

[godless dave]

I can't agree with you there.
The reply the fellah wrote me, which I posted above, is pretty clear on the subject of his beliefs.

edited- sorry, I might have misunderstood you! I thought you refered to the aminal protection racket fellah, not the camping creature.

And this is why the key to running a successful scam is to pretend at all times that you really believe it.

[Brainache]

And this is why the key to running a successful scam is to pretend at all times that you really believe it.

And yet now that Mr Camping has had a stroke, I can't help wondering if he kept up payments on his health insurance. If so, might that put him in a difficult legal position if one of the folks mentioned in this thread decided to sue him?

[X]

I'm an atheist.

I'll say it without reservation, loud and proud:
"There is no evidence for any god (of any definition I've ever heard). When it comes to the Christian god, the entity is so self-contradictory and absurd that I can categorically state it does not exist."

I'm an atheist.

Unlike Slingblade, I do have a house. And a car. And a credit card (which generally shows a balance of $0).

I agree with Slingblade (for whom I hold immense respect) that debt is stupid. But I have a good education, a good career and I'm young. I'm going to be out of debt by the time I'm 40. And that includes my mortgage. So I'm not worried. Not yet, anyway. Call it the misplaced confidence of youth, if you must label it. It's probably accurate.

And I am most emphatically not poetical.

Slingblade and I: Opposites in so many ways. But both atheists.

So please, Epix, when your discussing the motivations of people you obviously don't understand (and don't seem to want to), try not to talk as though we're all alike.






P.S. And if you're reading the Bible for poetry, learn Greek and Hebrew.

[slingblade]

I'm an atheist.

I'll say it without reservation, loud and proud:
"There is no evidence for any god (of any definition I've ever heard). When it comes to the Christian god, the entity is so self-contradictory and absurd that I can categorically state it does not exist."

I'm an atheist.

Unlike Slingblade, I do have a house. And a car. And a credit card (which generally shows a balance of $0).

I agree with Slingblade (for whom I hold immense respect) that debt is stupid. But I have a good education, a good career and I'm young. I'm going to be out of debt by the time I'm 40. And that includes my mortgage. So I'm not worried. Not yet, anyway. Call it the misplaced confidence of youth, if you must label it. It's probably accurate.

And I am most emphatically not poetical.

Slingblade and I: Opposites in so many ways. But both atheists.

So please, Epix, when your discussing the motivations of people you obviously don't understand (and don't seem to want to), try not to talk as though we're all alike.






P.S. And if you're reading the Bible for poetry, learn Greek and Hebrew.


Aw, gee whiz. :o

And good for you! I admire those who are able to manage their lives so well, and only wish I could have done half as well at it as you're doing. I find that truly impressive. You have my deep respect.

[keale]

Wow I lost IQ points reading this thread.....

[Roadtoad]

I feel sorry for the victims here, the people who were sucked into Camping's crap, but the reality is the warning signs were there, that Harold Camping is god damned liar.

How many more false prophecies will it take before people realize this man is a charlatan? That all he wants is their money? How much more crap will they accept before they realize, "Doing this is not smart. Allowing this man access to my money, my time, and my family is foolish and stupid." I'm sorry that they were taken, but there has been more than enough warning.

So, now it's time for them to face up to the realities they have created for themselves. It's time for them to go back the houses they allowed to go into default, to pay the bills they allowed to go into collection, to go back to the jobs they abandoned because they listened to a known liar when he said "Jesus Is Coming." It's time for them to face the jeers, the insults, the ridicule, because they brought that on themselves.

This, folks, is called "reality." And while I feel sorry for these folks for having to come face to face with it so harshly, they have to. Because everyone else has. Ain't no exception to the rule.

[slingblade]

Well said, Roadtoad. Well said, indeed.

[Jono]

I feel sorry for the victims here, the people who were sucked into Camping's crap, but the reality is the warning signs were there, that Harold Camping is god damned liar.

How many more false prophecies will it take before people realize this man is a charlatan?

'Some' people who fervently refuse to believe he's a charlatan are pretty much the same kind of people as Camping himself. For a wildly inappropriate comparison; Göring wasn't sucked into NS by Hitler, the two were simply similar in that ideological regard and victimhood on either behalf doesn't really apply (and yes the "people" were 'sucked' in by the latter even though they weren't the same).

[Roadtoad]

'Some' people who fervently refuse to believe he's a charlatan are pretty much the same kind of people as Camping himself. For a wildly inappropriate comparison; Göring wasn't sucked into NS by Hitler, the two were simply similar in that ideological regard and victimhood on either behalf doesn't really apply (and yes the "people" were 'sucked' in by the latter even though they weren't the same).

I don't know that you're that far off. I can tell you, though, it's offensive to me to read what these people have to say now that the May 21st date is off.

Sorry you're losing your houses, people, that God didn't show as planned. But you made the choice to follow someone that even the Bible says you shouldn't have. You choose to be a fool, you pay for it.

Bed. Made. Lie in it.

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

I've heard it said that we now live in post-nonapocalyptic times.

Pretty damn funny.

~~ Paul