WTF?? Vampires??

[MoeFaux]

This story is written by a Knight Ridder newspaper reporter! How *********** woowoo can you get? Is the man high?!

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2001891951_vampires31.html

[Zep]

Somebody somewhere has had their leg pulled by peasants so hard that they will have trouble standing upright for weeks.

[Tanja]

I thought it maybe could have been an April Fool joke, but I see it was published on March 31st. Google search tells me the same story ws published in the Miami Herald (http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/8280967.htm) on March 26th.

I thought that vampires were as such a product of Holywood imagination? Or am I confusing vampires with Dracula who was VERY loosely based on Vlad Tepes?

There is a story about the same event from
BBC news (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3537085.stm), discussing more its social context rather than the details of the act.

[Darat]

I hope no one here is just going to write this off as typical "believer’s nonsense"?

After all there are many, many people who believe in this phenomenon of dead people rising from their grave and existing on the blood on the living or as these reports call them "vampires".

It is incredible that we aren't all on planes to Romania right now to investigate the possibility of these undead creatures. To not do so just shows how closed minded and non-sKeptical we are.

I suggest that the government should at once be pressured into providing money to fund research so we can find out all there is to know about these blood drinking vampires.

To say so many people can be so wrong without research is obviously closed minded pseudosKepticism.

[Hellbound]

Hey, Darat....um...it's not April 1st anymore

:D

[TriangleMan]

Originally posted by Tanja

I thought that vampires were as such a product of Holywood imagination? Or am I confusing vampires with Dracula who was VERY loosely based on Vlad Tepes?
I have a copy of Bram Stoker's Dracula at home (the book, not the movie) so I'll go through the preface and see if it has any historical details in it. I think Bram's book was what introduced the concept of vampires to the West.

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

I'm with Darat. Here we have the opportunity to demonstrate that sKeptics aren't just close-minded scientism-flinging Randibots. We should support vampire research wholeheartedly.

Remember: It's always possible that the study of vampires will unearth a potential life-saving pharmaceutical.

~~ Paul

[DangerousBeliefs]

I remember watching a show on why they thought people believed in vampires...

Seems it goes back to how the body decomposes over time... the fact that fingernails and hair still grows... that blood will reliquify... etc.

When they dig up the body, it seems like it's still "living"... even the "gasp" of gas leaving the chest cavity can all act to make the corpse appear to be alive.

Just read the guy's account of burning a heart... the "squeal" is the meat hitting a hot pan.

Seems like a tradition created from misunderstanding... certainly, it's not the first.

*SNEEZE*

"Bless you"

[Zep]

Heh. The other one's got bells on!

[figtertype]

Originally posted by TriangleMan
I have a copy of Bram Stoker's Dracula at home (the book, not the movie) so I'll go through the preface and see if it has any historical details in it. I think Bram's book was what introduced the concept of vampires to the West.


The Vampire myth is far older than Bram Stoker’s Count. The one of many 'original' versions was the ugly misshapen spirits of those that died of illness. Before we understood how diseases were transmitted, Vampires were thought to spread the disease they died from, and therefore explain why people who nursed or were close to a person who died from a disease sometimes came down with the same illness. Add to that fever dreams the ill people have of deceased relatives or friends, and bingo, you've got your vampire.

What Bram Stoker and Hollywood really introduced was the idea of the Vampire as a sort of gothic sex symbol, the ugly twisted Nosferatu is a far cry from the dapper count.

I suspect the Romanian incident was an echo back to the plague type vampire spirit belief. They believed they were stopping the spread of illness with the superstitious ceremony to quiet the spirit.

[Doubt]

I once read a book titled Vampires, burial and death which can be found at Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0300048599/qid=1081172164/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/002-9750076-3912003?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

That story is close to some of the cases covered in this book. The gist of the book was that pre-literate European cultures did not understand what happened to a body after death and attributed every possible problem to the spirit of the deceased. Not all cases in the book were about vampires. Other types of undead also showed up.

Most of the accounts were recorded by people who did not believe in vampires but described what they saw happening as best they could. The author also pointed out that contradictory evidence was often used to prove the cases of vampirism.

Different cultures had variations that reflected on their own people. Serbian vampires were tied to their grave just as Serbian peasants were unable to leave their own lands. Gypsy vampire lore has it that they are doomed to wander the earth.

Where cultures met, traditions were mixed up. One case in the book has a suicide followed by an epidemic. The suicide case was supposedly transformed into a vampire. The town attempted to end the epidemic by sticking swords into the vampire’s heart and leaving them there. Several swords later, the epidemic continued. Then an Albanian told the townspeople that the cross shape of their Christian swords was holding the spirit in the body. So they pulled those swords out and stuck in a sword without that shape. I do not recall if the epidemic ended right away.

[Tanja]

Originally posted by TriangleMan

I have a copy of Bram Stoker's Dracula at home (the book, not the movie) so I'll go through the preface and see if it has any historical details in it. I think Bram's book was what introduced the concept of vampires to the West.

I thought I knew my vampires from my draculas, but it is actually a bit of a blur. What about warewolves, where do they come in. Are they all (vampires, dracula, warewolves) part of the same folklore, or not?

[sweetkb713]

Originally posted by MoeFaux
This story is written by a Knight Ridder newspaper reporter! How *********** woowoo can you get? Is the man high?!

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2001891951_vampires31.html

Is this for real or is it an April Fool's joke? I see the date is March 31st.

[sweetkb713]

Originally posted by Tanja

I thought that vampires were as such a product of Holywood imagination? Or am I confusing vampires with Dracula who was VERY loosely based on Vlad Tepes?


What Americans think of vampires - the fangs, transforming into a bat, silver crosses - that is all made up by Hollywood.

But there are a lot of cultures that believe in vampires.

http://www.csicop.org/si/9603/staking.html

[Tanja]

Originally posted by sweetkb713


Is this for real or is it an April Fool's joke? I see the date is March 31st.

I thought it was as well, but apparently not. In my previous post (towards the bignning of the thread) I posted links to the identical story published in Miami Herald couple of days earlier, and in BBC News, published back in February...

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by Tanja


I thought I knew my vampires from my draculas, but it is actually a bit of a blur. What about warewolves, where do they come in. Are they all (vampires, dracula, warewolves) part of the same folklore, or not?

Werewolves are also an old concept that is really old that got new life from Hollywood. A man named Jean Grenier (http://www.shanmonster.com/witch/werewolf/grenier.html) was tried and convicted of being a werewolf in the 1600's. If I recall correctly chrages of Lycanthropy were as common as charges of being a witch in certain parts of Europe at one time. In fact they were treated as much the same thing.

[sweetkb713]

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep


Werewolves are also an old concept that is really old that got new life from Hollywood. A man named Jean Grenier (http://www.shanmonster.com/witch/werewolf/grenier.html) was tried and convicted of being a werewolf in the 1600's. If I recall correctly chrages of Lycanthropy were as common as charges of being a witch in certain parts of Europe at one time. In fact they were treated as much the same thing.

Some werewolves are also witches. Or wizards. I refer you to Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban. :D

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by sweetkb713


Some werewolves are also witches. Or wizards. I refer you to Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban. :D

Beleive it or not, I have read all the Harry Potter books, my kids got me to see the first movie which made me want to read the books. So I blame it on my kids.

In real world myth they were the same too. IIRC, Mr. Grenier supposedly got his ability to turn into a wolf from a magic spell, not from being bitten by a werewolf or anything else we may associate with lycanthropy in modern times.

Being a werewolf was something a witch was able to do, rather than being a seperate thing.

[tim]

Originally posted by Tanja


I thought I knew my vampires from my draculas, but it is actually a bit of a blur. What about warewolves, where do they come in. Are they all (vampires, dracula, warewolves) part of the same folklore, or not?

Hey Tanja, get this movie out on dvd. It might explain.
Yeah, it's a horror movie, but it's fun!
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0320691/

[Craig]

Originally posted by DangerousBeliefs
... the fact that fingernails and hair still grows...

http://www.snopes.com/science/nailgrow.htm

Also, this is quite an interesting read (http://www.angelfire.com/tn/vampires/essay.html) .

http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/verkleidung/costumed-smiley-001.gif

[Tanja]

Originally posted by tim


Hey Tanja, get this movie out on dvd. It might explain.
Yeah, it's a horror movie, but it's fun!
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0320691/

Noooo...it's a horror...I am too easily scared...I couldn't even watch x-files without having nightmares even thought I thought it was crap....

I do not believe in things supernatural...but I am too easily scared by them on TV.

The only vampir film I could watch (and which is among my favourite films) is the "Fearless vampire killers" by Roman Polanski, which is first of all a hilarious comedy, and only then a horror.

[Jas]

Try this one then,

http://imdb.com/title/tt0311361/

[tim]

Awwww, Tanja, you wimp! :D :D :D
It's not that scary, honest. Just keep saying to yourself "they're all actors!" and you'll be fine!

[Tanja]

Originally posted by Jas
Try this one then,

http://imdb.com/title/tt0311361/

Jesus Christ Vampire? Wow, that's creative!
Plot Outline: Kung-Fu Action / Comedy / Horror / Musical about the second coming.

Kung-fu - action - comedy - horror - musical? That sounds worse than "Springtime for Hitler"!

[Tanja]

Originally posted by tim
Awwww, Tanja, you wimp! :D :D :D
It's not that scary, honest. Just keep saying to yourself "they're all actors!" and you'll be fine!

It is very easy in theory but somehow difficult in practice?

(I am also a little bit scared of the dark, please don't turn the lights off!)

[Toastrider]

Like most myths, vampirism springs from a very small seed of actual truth. In this case, it's thought that the whole concept of vampires, wurderlak, vrykolakas, etc, sprang from the disease porphyria (which causes intense anemia, among other things).

Does that mean porphyria is vampirism? Hardly. For one thing, it's medically treatable, and the victims are no more evil than Joe Normal on the street.

An interesting sidelight on how cultures could interpret disease in a supernatural concept, but ultimately? Fictional.

--Toasty

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by Toastrider
Like most myths, vampirism springs from a very small seed of actual truth. In this case, it's thought that the whole concept of vampires, wurderlak, vrykolakas, etc, sprang from the disease porphyria (which causes intense anemia, among other things).

Does that mean porphyria is vampirism? Hardly. For one thing, it's medically treatable, and the victims are no more evil than Joe Normal on the street.

An interesting sidelight on how cultures could interpret disease in a supernatural concept, but ultimately? Fictional.

--Toasty

I also recall reading somewhere that vampirism was associated with tuberculosis outbreaks, i.e. that outbreaks of the disease were considered to be the handywork of a marauding vampire. This was especially common in New England (http://users.net1plus.com/vyrdolak/NEFolkbelief.htm)

[Toastrider]

Quite possible, Nyarli. We have a lot to thank microbiology for.

--Toasty

[TriangleMan]

Okay I've looked at my copy of Dracula (printed by Wordsworth in 1993). In the introduction by David Rogers of Kingston University he states that the first popular novel in what he calls "the Gothic tradition" that vampire novels emerged from is The Castle of Otranto written in 1765 by Horace Walpole. Vampires with charm and sex appeal started in 1819 with The Vampyre by Polidori. There were numerous other novels with vampires prior to Dracula being published.

Unfortunately Rogers only discusses English literature. He does not go back farther to the origins of vampires and whether people in England (or elsewhere) believed in them prior to that.

[tim]

Try reading "The Castle of Otranto". On second thoughts.......................






Oh sorry, dropped off there, reading the title.

[TriangleMan]

Originally posted by tim
Oh sorry, dropped off there, reading the title.
Yep, makes me think Literature majors should get hazard pay.

[asthmatic camel]

Coincidentally, I've just finished re-reading Stoker's Dracula. From Dennis Wheatley's entertaining introduction to my copy...

The elderly Dutch scientist, Dr.Van Helsing, who is steeped in the lore of vampires, directs the little team of four young men who attempt to destroy Dracula. One could wish the good doctor was less verbose, as one could say all he has to say in half the number of words; and the impression is given that any of the four young men would have been shocked beyond words had he been told that every night his contemporaries were gaily drinking champagne out of the slippers of naughty girls in Paris.Alone among them the American, Quincy Morris, strikes a modern note, owing to his faith in pistols and Winchester repeating rifles.
The heroine is lovely Mina Harker- later in the story, when married, always respectfully referred to by her male chums as 'Madame' Mina. When she writes of them in her journal as so "strong, courageous and determined" while she is only a "poor weak woman" one would love to give her a sharp slap on the behind. But of course, Mina would never admit, even to herself, that she had anything so vulgar as a bottom; and it is a safe bet that in bed she always wore a thick flannel nightdress heavily ruched tight round her neck and wrists.

For all that, Dracula is a great read, give it a try :)