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subgenius
7th March 2003, 12:13 PM
America admits suspects died in interrogations
By Andrew Gumbel in Los Angeles
07 March 2003

American military officials acknowledged yesterday that two prisoners captured in Afghanistan in December had been killed while under interrogation at Bagram air base north of Kabul – reviving concerns that the US is resorting to torture in its treatment of Taliban fighters and suspected al-Qa'ida operatives.

A spokesman for the air base confirmed that the official cause of death of the two men was "homicide", contradicting earlier accounts that one had died of a heart attack and the other from a pulmonary embolism.

The men's death certificates, made public earlier this week, showed that one captive, known only as Dilawar, 22, from the Khost region, died from "blunt force injuries to lower extremities complicating coronary artery disease" while another captive, Mullah Habibullah, 30, suffered from blood clot in the lung that was exacerbated by a "blunt force injury".

US officials previously admitted using "stress and duress" on prisoners including sleep deprivation, denial of medication for battle injuries, forcing them to stand or kneel for hours on end with hoods on, subjecting them to loud noises and sudden flashes of light and engaging in culturally humiliating practices such as having them kicked by female officers.

While the US claims this still constitutes "humane" treatment, human rights groups including Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch have denounced it as torture as defined by international treaty.
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/politics/story.jsp?story=384604

7th March 2003, 12:19 PM
I no longer care if we win or not. We have nothing left to defend.

corplinx
7th March 2003, 12:21 PM
Was the forceful part of the interrogation done by Afghani or US interrogators? Were their injuries sustained before or during their interrogation?

This article seems to make some big accusations without going into any depth whatsoever. Then it becomes basically a big hitpiece on america. Just what I expected from the Independent though.

Seriously, if US personnel did this then show us the evidence so we can hold them accountable. US interrogators are trained to not use physical torture so this is very suspect. US interrogators basically use isolation and let people only get 4 hours of sleep a day. Eventually they talk. Usually in the first few days. US interrogators know this. I also find it interesting that US interrogators would physically torture them until they died.

If some US interrogator committed this sort of atrocity, I want names. However, politically biased anti-american hit pieces do not further the cause of justice.

ZeeGerman
7th March 2003, 12:29 PM
Originally posted by corplinx
Was the forceful part of the interrogation done by Afghani or US interrogators? Were their injuries sustained before or during their interrogation?



How does this matter? I think we can be pretty sure that - if the story is true - US officials were present at the interrogations and the ones calling the shots.

Zee

corplinx
7th March 2003, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by ZeeGerman


"I think we can be pretty sure that "


What we don't know could fill the grand canyon.

Skeptical Greg
7th March 2003, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by sundog
I no longer care if we win or not. We have nothing left to defend.



If that is all it takes, for you suggest our cause is no longer right, it doesn't say much for what you believed in, in the first place.


If you did not believe our cause was just, before you had this information, then you have even more reason to believe that way.

DanishDynamite
7th March 2003, 12:47 PM
O beautiful for heroes prov'd
In liberating strife,
Who more than self their country loved,
And mercy more than life.

America, the Beautiful (http://www.niehs.nih.gov/kids/lyrics/america.htm)

[Warning: Link has music]

7th March 2003, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by Diogenes




If that is all it takes, for you suggest our cause is no longer right, it doesn't say much for what you believed in, in the first place.


If you did not believe our cause was just, before you had this information, then you have even more reason to believe that way.

Oh, go poop in your hat. ;)

ZeeGerman
7th March 2003, 12:49 PM
Originally posted by corplinx


What we don't know could fill the grand canyon.

Thanx for emphazising my point. I had the precondition already included.

Zee

LTC8K6
7th March 2003, 01:01 PM
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/03/06/attack/main543011.shtml

If we are so evil, why are we investigating? Why don't the death certificates say it was accidental, or a suicide. Why do they say homicide if we tortured them to death? Why even release the info at all?

Makes no sense to me.

They were probably beaten by other prisoners. Maybe they were going to talk to us?

Skeptical Greg
7th March 2003, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by sundog


Oh, go poop in your hat. ;)

I will take this under consideration..;)

subgenius
7th March 2003, 01:05 PM
They coulda beat themselves to death for goshsakes.
Or maybe OJ's "real killers" did it, yeah that's the ticket.

Torlack
7th March 2003, 01:19 PM
Given that they already admit that female officers are allowed to kick them since it is a social insult, it is very easy to conclude that the torture killed them. The real question is what really goes that we don't know about.

A few days ago someone posted a picture of John Walker Lynn (sp?) where he was bound to a bed or cot and blindfolded. He was clean and looked in excellent health. I just laughed my butt off and asked they guy "Do you have any idea what torture really is?"

Then again, you don't die from blunt force trauma bound to a bed.

Unless something strange happened, injuries resulting in death probably would satisfy AI's definition of torture.

http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/POL300062001?OpenDocument&of=THEMES\TORTURE

:(