Slow development in mobile smartphones?

[Darat]

Why has progress been so slow in smartphones?

I've only just moved from my 7 year old Sony P900 smartphone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Ericsson_P900) to an android phone, and yes the android phone is not as thick and is lighter (but doesn't last anywhere near as long on a single charge, seems that manufacturers are more interested in making the phone "slim" at the sake of a good sized battery) yet I've been quite underwhelmed by the new features.

Yes the "experience" is smoother and the new phone runs at quite a fast pace and things like resolution have increased but beyond GPS there is nothing in principle that I couldn't do with my old smartphone.

Why has development been so slow for smartphones?

[Wudang]

Possibly because Nokia was leading the way for a long time with Symbian then completely lost the plot. And as you identify more work seems to have gone into the visual aspects (with consequences for the battery) than functionality. I also remember an article some years back about how younger people were ignoring a lot of the advanced features and just using SMS thus reducing the market for many of these features. However I think that may have been a UK article and we had our own issues with 3G networks.

[Soapy Sam]

Is the rate determining step the phone, or the phone network?
Not much point selling a phone that can receive and display 3-D IMAX if nobody is able to broadcast it.

[BenBurch]

Form factor cannot change much as long as you need a touchscreen or a keyboard or both.

What we see with Apple and with Android is that they are concentrating on a PLATFORM, and allowing the marketplace to fill in the features, but in a restricted way ruled by agreements with the network providers. And that is the bottleneck for really innovative new services; The networks will not permit many things.

[Policenaut]

I think it has moved along quite a bit. Larger and better quality screens, multitouch, 4g internet (could your old phone stream netflix movies?), wireless tether multiple devices (8-10) to your phones internet connection, video chat with front facing cameras, high quality back facing cameras, augmented reality apps, video output (hdmi or dlna to wirelessly connect to your tv), dedicated appstores with just about any program you could think of, high quality games, and gps and navigation equal to standalone hardware. I don't know what phone you got or where you expect smartphones to be right now. What kind of services or features do you think are missing right now?

[PGH]

I just got my first smart phone and I loathe it.

The battery can run for about 40 minutes before it's depleted, depending on what you're doing. Decide to listen to a few songs on Pandora and it's more like 15 minutes. And charging it takes about half a day it seems. So I had to buy another charger for work so I'm not carrying one with me back and forth.

Then I realized I've got the phone plugged in to charge 70-80% of the time. Some mobile phone.:rolleyes:

[excaza]

I just got my first smart phone and I loathe it.

The battery can run for about 40 minutes before it's depleted, depending on what you're doing. Decide to listen to a few songs on Pandora and it's more like 15 minutes. And charging it takes about half a day it seems. So I had to buy another charger for work so I'm not carrying one with me back and forth.

Then I realized I've got the phone plugged in to charge 70-80% of the time. Some mobile phone.:rolleyes:

This is more likely an actual malfunction rather than a true representation of your device, what did you buy?

[PGH]

This is more likely an actual malfunction rather than a true representation of your device, what did you buy?

Well I do suspect/know that a large part of the problem is probably my own ineptitude. I'm going to see if Verizon offers classes on using this brand of phone.

It's a Vortex. Hey it was $40 after resigning with Verizon and I can't afford an iPhone! You take your mockery elsewhere, everyone reading this! :o:D

[excaza]

My intent was not to mock, just to point out that a 40 minute battery life is unacceptable for any device, even a smartphone. It could very well just be a faulty battery. Have you done any investigoogling to see if others are having a similar problem?


Sent from my iPhone

;)

[PGH]

Oh I never thought you were mocking. Just pre-emptively lashing out at those who would laugh at my little Vortex, probably from behind their clean, white iPhones... racists.

What I tried to do was download an "apps killer" thinking that those (or something that's running) is what's killing my battery. But anytime I use the apps killer to kill apps those same apps came back less than a minute later.

"Apps" used to mean appetizers. And I'm about to trade this thing in for an order of cheesesticks anyway.

As a kid we had a phone on the wall. Sometimes the chord would get tangled. That was basically the only problem with it. I think I'm starting to miss that phone...

[Wudang]

Checked its spec


Talk Time Up to 450 min
Standby Time Up to 500 Hours

I'd say you have a duff battery.

[dtugg]

I can easily get my Android device to last for more than 24 hours, depending, of course, on usage.

I dunno about Verizon, but with Sprint, they will just give you a new battery if you go to the store and tell them it them it isn't holding charge well.

[BenBurch]

Checked its spec


Talk Time Up to 450 min
Standby Time Up to 500 Hours

I'd say you have a duff battery.

Screen-on time is costly, though. One thing to do is to set the brightness down and allow screen lock to be short. Another is to turn off things you are not using, like WiFi when you are not in a home WiFi zone; It is searching for connections all the time.

[theprestige]

Why has progress been so slow in smartphones?

I've only just moved from my 7 year old Sony P900 smartphone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Ericsson_P900) to an android phone, and yes the android phone is not as thick and is lighter (but doesn't last anywhere near as long on a single charge, seems that manufacturers are more interested in making the phone "slim" at the sake of a good sized battery) yet I've been quite underwhelmed by the new features.

Yes the "experience" is smoother and the new phone runs at quite a fast pace and things like resolution have increased but beyond GPS there is nothing in principle that I couldn't do with my old smartphone.

Why has development been so slow for smartphones?

Other than smaller, lighter, faster, smoother, and GPS navigation, what advancements did you expect, and why?

ETA: I mean, it's not like the last decade has heralded a quantum leap forward in processor efficiency or battery life. Unless I've missed some very important press releases.

[dtugg]

You could not pay me to use some crappy Symbian phone from several years ago. Well, I guess you could but it would be expensive.

[Ferguson]

I'm not sure what features I'd want that aren't there. My phone has already replaced several other devices, it's my camera, my gaming system, my GPS, my primary web browser, and hulu/netflix has relegated my TV to the occasional DVD.

[Cuddles]

Other than smaller, lighter, faster, smoother, and GPS navigation, what advancements did you expect, and why?

Very much this. When it comes down to it, a smartphone is still just a telephone with a very small computer attached to it. There's only so much it can do. Calls, texts, internet, camera, mp3 player, video, touch screen, games, GPS, wifi, bluetooth. New phones can generally do all that better, or at least faster, but other than that, what else is there? There just doesn't seem much left to add to a pocket-sized mobile device that is both useful and actually capable of fitting on it.

The thing is, not everything always advances. Look at TV, for example. What people want in TV is a screen that sits in one place and shows moving pictures. The screen size and resolution has increased a bit while overall size and weight has gone down, but otherwise there has barely been any change in my entire life, because if you changed it too much it would no longer be useful as a TV for most people.

It's the same for phones. They need to be a certain size, weight, and so on, and so any changes are inherently limited. We've already crammed pretty much every feature we can think of into them, so any changes are now down to making the existing features better in some way. Maybe there are more things we could do with them, but obviously no-one's thought of them yet.

[PGH]

Screen-on time is costly, though. One thing to do is to set the brightness down and allow screen lock to be short. Another is to turn off things you are not using, like WiFi when you are not in a home WiFi zone; It is searching for connections all the time.

I think you just solved my problem. My thanks.

I know it's me, not the infernal device. But I still need to blame the infernal device!!

[Darat]

Other than smaller, lighter, faster, smoother, and GPS navigation, what advancements did you expect, and why?

ETA: I mean, it's not like the last decade has heralded a quantum leap forward in processor efficiency or battery life. Unless I've missed some very important press releases.


Scrub the lighter bit - my old phone was fractionally lighter!

[theprestige]

Scrub the lighter bit - my old phone was fractionally lighter!

Your old phone probably had a much lower-resolution camera, too. If any camera at all. So other than all the obvious advancements you listed (including, if you like, a substantially improved performance-to-weight ratio), what advancements were you expecting, and why?

[Roboramma]

Your old phone probably had a much lower-resolution camera, too. If any camera at all. So other than all the obvious advancements you listed (including, if you like, a substantially improved performance-to-weight ratio), what advancements were you expecting, and why?

I was thinking it should be able to diagnose all known diseases, scan for signs of life, etc. :boxedin:

[Darat]

Your old phone probably had a much lower-resolution camera, too. If any camera at all. So other than all the obvious advancements you listed (including, if you like, a substantially improved performance-to-weight ratio), what advancements were you expecting, and why?

Why? Because things do tend to move on a bit over 7 years in the "hi tech" industries and if I knew what advances and developments I'd expected... I'd have started a company.

I think my expectations have been set too high because as an earlier adopter of smartphones (the P900 was not my first) and experiencing the speed of advances in just those first few years I'd expected that the rate of advance would have remained the same.

I'll just have to accept that until the rest of you catch-up with the likes of us the rate of development and advances will remain sluggish since you don't know any better..... ;)

[Lothian]

Why? Because things do tend to move on a bit over 7 years in the "hi tech" industries and if I knew what advances and developments I'd expected... I'd have started a company.

I think my expectations have been set too high because as an earlier adopter of smartphones (the P900 was not my first) and experiencing the speed of advances in just those first few years I'd expected that the rate of advance would have remained the same.

I'll just have to accept that until the rest of you catch-up with the likes of us the rate of development and advances will remain sluggish since you don't know any better..... ;)I know very little about this so if I am talking crap (again) tell me. The 3G licenses were very expensive. We have been stuck for a long time (in electronic terms) with 3G so the licensees can recoup their costs. Otherwise 4G would have been released sooner and we would have seen the benefits before now.

[Roboramma]

So, which advances were you expecting again?

[Lothian]

So, which advances were you expecting again?
From my point of view streaming TV and an app which tells me where I have left my keys.

[Ausmerican]

Having recently gotten an Android (HTC Incredible2) I am quite impressed. 1gig processor, 32gig of memory was desktop PC material not too long ago.
8mp camera, HD videocamera, front camera for skype.
Apps that can scan a doc via the camera and turn it into a .pdf, scan via images taken from the camera (of paintings, barcodes, etc) to find data via image matching online, heart rate monitor through the camera that is surprisingly accurate, 48 function scientific calculator, even a tunable guitar, piano, and drumkit.

Actually looking at the timeframe mentioned in the OP, 7 years, this phone outperforms my desktop from 7 years ago in every respect. Plus it makes phonecalls they tell me.

[Darat]

I know very little about this so if I am talking crap (again) tell me. The 3G licenses were very expensive. We have been stuck for a long time (in electronic terms) with 3G so the licensees can recoup their costs. Otherwise 4G would have been released sooner and we would have seen the benefits before now.

I thought the issue with 4G was that TV hasn't yet all gone digital?

[Fishstick]

From my point of view streaming TV and an app which tells me where I have left my keys.

The firs tis possible with Hulu and netflix apps.

I'd be surprised if the latter hasn't already been done in some way. I would think having a bluetooth / IR keychain that beeps if a phone app 'calls it' wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility?

[Darat]

Having recently gotten an Android (HTC Incredible2) I am quite impressed. 1gig processor, 32gig of memory was desktop PC material not too long ago.
8mp camera, HD videocamera, front camera for skype.
Apps that can scan a doc via the camera and turn it into a .pdf, scan via images taken from the camera (of paintings, barcodes, etc) to find data via image matching online, heart rate monitor through the camera that is surprisingly accurate, 48 function scientific calculator, even a tunable guitar, piano, and drumkit.

Actually looking at the timeframe mentioned in the OP, 7 years, this phone outperforms my desktop from 7 years ago in every respect. Plus it makes phonecalls they tell me.

Yeah I've just found that feature on mine, must be one of those easter egg things that programmers like to sneak in.

[Darat]

I was looking for old references and found this link: http://www.geekzone.co.nz/content.asp?contentid=3330 with a photo of the XDA IIs that was released in 2004.

Made me chuckle to think of the current Apple v Samsung spats over looks of phones and form factor.

As I said earlier my criticism is not that what they do has got better/faster/smoother but that really apart from the addition of GPS there doesn't seem to have been any great original innovation (most of the development that there has been is accounted for by Moore's and similar laws.).

As for asking me what I expected, that rather misses the point - innovations tend to only be obvious with hindsight!

[Cuddles]

Otherwise 4G would have been released sooner and we would have seen the benefits before now.

No we wouldn't. The issue with 4G is that it's simply not possible with current technology. There are a couple of things being advertised as 4G but they don't come anywhere near the actual 4G standard, they're just "a bit better than 3G and you can't legally stop us calling it 4G".

As for asking me what I expected, that rather misses the point - innovations tend to only be obvious with hindsight!

That was part of my point in my last post - you don't know what advances there should have been. I don't know what advances there should have been. In fact, it turns out no-one knows what advances there should have been. Which is why, aside from the major improvements to all the things that were already there, there haven't been any significant additions. It's simply that people have run out of obvious things to add, and no-one has come up with any non-obvious ideas yet.

Why? Because things do tend to move on a bit over 7 years in the "hi tech" industries

But they have moved on. As already noted, phones are faster, smaller, lighter, more powerful, have better screens, better (well, more technically advanced) interfaces, better cameras, GPS, compasses, and can do a huge amount more via apps that make use of the various bits of improved hardware.

The question isn't why you'd expect things to move on, because obviously they have. The question is why you expect things to have moved on any more, or in different ways, than they actually have?

[Darat]

N...snip...

The question isn't why you'd expect things to move on, because obviously they have. The question is why you expect things to have moved on any more, or in different ways, than they actually have?

As I said it's because pretty much all the features of a modern smartphone where pretty much in place at least 7 years ago.

[Ethan Thane Athen]

OK, I'll help Darat out here. What I would have expected to happen now (and frustratingly the technology actually exists to do it) is that smart phones would have got over the two things that actually hold them back from truly replacing other devices (PC, TV etc) ie maintain the same portable form factor but full (or near full) size screen and keyboard.*

I saw 'roll out' flexible screens that could be built in to phones several years ago (similarly I've seen minitiarised projector technology - though I suspect it would be heavy on the battery). I've also seen both 'rollable' and projected (very cool) keyboards.

The smart phone is now as powerful as PCs of a few years ago but is still too limited by its HCI.

Anyway, that's just off the top of my head. I'm sure I can come up with more....

*Before anybody points it out, yes they would still need their 'normal' screen and keyboard for use when truly 'on the move'. I don't see that as a problem.

[Fishstick]

As I said it's because pretty much all the features of a modern smartphone where pretty much in place at least 7 years ago.

But heavier, clunkier, and relatively more expensive, which is exactly what Cuddle said. A P900 also didnd't have a built-in GPS or gyroscope, had less memory capacity and a lower res screen.

I don't know what other type of advances you'd expect?

[excaza]

(and frustratingly the technology actually exists to do it)

There is a difference between technology existing and technology being commercially viable.

[excaza]

As I said it's because pretty much all the features of a modern smartphone where pretty much in place at least 7 years ago.

By that same token, the features of a modern television were pretty much in place 60 years ago. Sure, they changed a few connectors around, crammed in more pixels, made them thinner, and made them refresh faster, but it's still just an image on a screen.

As for asking me what I expected, that rather misses the point - innovations tend to only be obvious with hindsight!
Well, you're obviously expecting something, else you wouldn't have the notion that advances have been slow.

[Darat]

By that same token, the features of a modern television were pretty much in place 60 years ago. Sure, they changed a few connectors around, crammed in more pixels, made them thinner, and made them refresh faster, but it's still just an image on a screen.



Nah huge progress, at one time we only had 2 channels of crap - now've we've got thousands...


Well, you're obviously expecting something, else you wouldn't have the notion that advances have been slow.

You are right I was expecting something!

[excaza]

Nah huge progress, at one time we only had 2 channels of crap - now've we've got thousands...
Not sure if serious...

You are right I was expecting something!
Why? What do you feel hasn't met your expectations? What do you feel should have improved faster?

[WildCat]

Why? Because things do tend to move on a bit over 7 years in the "hi tech" industries and if I knew what advances and developments I'd expected... I'd have started a company.
And instantly sued out of busness by Apple, Samsung, et al for patent violations, real or imagined.

Frankly, I'm amazed there's any innovation at all wrt smart phones given the byzantine and outdated patent system we have.

[WildCat]

I thought the issue with 4G was that TV hasn't yet all gone digital?
4G isn't even a real standard, it's a marketing tool.

And TVs have been all-digital for several years now. Analog signal isn't even broadcast any more in the US.

[WildCat]

No we wouldn't. The issue with 4G is that it's simply not possible with current technology. There are a couple of things being advertised as 4G but they don't come anywhere near the actual 4G standard, they're just "a bit better than 3G and you can't legally stop us calling it 4G".
What "4G standard"?

[Darat]

4G isn't even a real standard, it's a marketing tool.

And TVs have been all-digital for several years now. Analog signal isn't even broadcast any more in the US.


I meant the signal and we haven't finished our switch over in the UK yet - my area isn't due for almost another 12 months.

[Ethan Thane Athen]

There is a difference between technology existing and technology being commercially viable.

I know. Both technologies (rollable screen and projected keyboard) were described as being very commercially viable.

[Ethan Thane Athen]

And you asked what people were expecting, so I answered. I'm perfectly happy to accept that they may have turned out not to be as viable as first thought or some other perfectly understandable reason why they hadn't been adopted, I was just answering the question.

I have long said the main thing holding up convergence onto a single hand-held device was the size of the HCI so I was expecting companies to tackle that. When I saw the development of technologies that could indeed resolve that issue and keep the device hand-held (at least when not 'unfolded' or whatever) then I expected them to be adopted quickly ie within a few years, but they haven't really appeared yet.

[Ethan Thane Athen]

A quick google turned this up:

http://www.fastcompany.com/1753032/foldable-oled-screens-really-work-could-change-mobile-devices

so they're still predicting them 'soon' although I first heard of them 2 - 3 years ago eg:

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1035339/foldable-screens-coming-soon

Although admittedly that latter link (from 2008) suggests they may not happen - though it is unclear as to why it is so sceptical. Not quite sure whether it's exactly the same technology in each either.

I first saw them on The Gadget Show a few years ago on their 'future tech bit' when they still actually looked at useful gadgets and hadn't become obsessed by pointless challenges in a bid to rival Top Gear. In that snippet they had them rolled up (like a roll of film) inside / alongside (?) the phone and then unrolled them to use.

[Darat]

...snip...

I have long said the main thing holding up convergence onto a single hand-held device was the size of the HCI so I was expecting companies to tackle that. When I saw the development of technologies that could indeed resolve that issue and keep the device hand-held (at least when not 'unfolded' or whatever) then I expected them to be adopted quickly ie within a few years, but they haven't really appeared yet.

I've seen and been involved in the software side of a project for a "foldable screen" device that used one of the new semi-flexible displays, so the research is ongoing. There does seem to be the usual problem of someone not wanting to be the first to market, it will probably require a very brave company with very deep pockets to bring it to the market.

If folks want a more serious discussion Wudang and Soapy Sam had some good points. There was also a market perception that smartphones meant a business user's phone, and that is where Apple did spot a market gap i.e. a smartphone marketed at the general public. Which means that bells, whistles and looking pretty became much more important. Hopefully now that the basic core features in the consumer smartphones are up to where we were 7 years ago we will see development speeding up again. Interesting times ahead for the mobile platform.

[Ethan Thane Athen]

And here's some stuff on projected keyboards:

http://www.virtual-laser-devices.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projection_keyboard

Around, in its earliest incarnation, since 1992! I guess it needs a bit more miniaturisation before it could be physically incorporated in a smartphone rather than being an add-on device....

Although I guess what we all really want is:

http://www.holotouch.com/technology.html

Come on Minority Report!

(you may also find this debunking of an email hoax interesting as it mentions that a prototype was actually built in 2003 - not smartphone technology as such but easily adaptable http://www.hoax-slayer.com/pen-computer.shtml cool!)

[excaza]

A quick google turned this up:

http://www.fastcompany.com/1753032/foldable-oled-screens-really-work-could-change-mobile-devices

so they're still predicting them 'soon' although I first heard of them 2 - 3 years ago eg:

And? Product development cycles are much longer than most people realize. It took nearly 30 years for plasma screens to go from invention (the concept is older by another 30 years) to quasi-viable commercial production. LCD screens took 15-20. Soon is a relative term, and should always be taken with a grain of salt, particularly when it comes to press releases.

[excaza]

Hopefully now that the basic core features in the consumer smartphones are up to where we were 7 years ago we will see development speeding up again.

You keep saying this and not quantifying it at all, could you please elaborate?

[Darat]

You keep saying this and not quantifying it at all, could you please elaborate?

Elaborate what?

[KoihimeNakamura]

WildCat: the 3-4G standard is somewhere in the 802.11 block.

[excaza]

Elaborate what?

On what you feel hasn't developed, and the state you feel it should be in at this point in time as opposed to where it is now. Exactly what I've already asked you for.

[BenBurch]

From my point of view streaming TV and an app which tells me where I have left my keys.

With Near Field Communication, coming soon, your phone will BE your keys. Expect cars and locks to be appearing to allow that.

[Cuddles]

What "4G standard"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4G#ITU_Requirements_and_4G_wireless_standards

[NewtonTrino]

You're kidding right? Smart phones are amazing and have come far fast with no signs of slowing down.

[excaza]

Yes the "experience" is smoother and the new phone runs at quite a fast pace and things like resolution have increased but beyond GPS there is nothing in principle that I couldn't do with my old smartphone.

I guess I just don't understand this logic. In principle, there is nothing I could do with the new desktop I just built that I couldn't do with the desktop I had 10 years ago. I don't see how this translates to slow development.

[Ethan Thane Athen]

And? Product development cycles are much longer than most people realize. It took nearly 30 years for plasma screens to go from invention (the concept is older by another 30 years) to quasi-viable commercial production. LCD screens took 15-20. Soon is a relative term, and should always be taken with a grain of salt, particularly when it comes to press releases.

I'm not looking to argue about this - I've already said I'm happy to accept a myriad of reasons why these things haven't come about. I was merely answering the question about what developments some of us may have been expecting / hoping for. I'm well aware it can take a long time (sometimes it never happens at all) for concepts to reach mass production - it can also happen very quickly.

As I say, this was just an example of the sort of thing I thought might have happened by now....and I included the links mainly to illustrate what I was talking about, because I wasn't sure I'd been clear, and because I thought they were interesting.

[BenBurch]

I meant the signal and we haven't finished our switch over in the UK yet - my area isn't due for almost another 12 months.

Hell, you guys kept 405-line VHF TV going until 1985. I don't think there could have been more than a few of those pre-war sets running at that time.

[not daSkeptic]

I guess I just don't understand this logic. In principle, there is nothing I could do with the new desktop I just built that I couldn't do with the desktop I had 10 years ago. I don't see how this translates to slow development.

I think what he's saying is something along the lines of the following:

We're still driving late-1800's ground-based automobiles just with a few refinements. It's 2011. Where are the flying cars?

[WildCat]

Around, in its earliest incarnation, since 1992!
Which means Apple will patent it any day now. :p

[WildCat]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4G#ITU_Requirements_and_4G_wireless_standards
"This article uses 4G to refer to IMT-Advanced (International Mobile Telecommunications Advanced), as defined by ITU-R (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITU-R)."

Which means there is no standard for "4G". 4G is a marketing term, there's certainly no guarantee your 4G phone conforme to IMT-Advanced specs. They can call anything 4G.

[BenBurch]

I think what he's saying is something along the lines of the following:

We're still driving late-1800's ground-based automobiles just with a few refinements. It's 2011. Where are the flying cars?

You could buy one several times since. Nobody wanted them.

[Darat]

On what you feel hasn't developed, and the state you feel it should be in at this point in time as opposed to where it is now. Exactly what I've already asked you for.

I have expressed the opinion that development in smartphones phones has been slow, as I set out in my opening post I base that on the fact that there is nothing (apart from the couple of exceptions) that my new smartphone can do (in principle) that my 7 year old smartphone couldn't.

If you don't hold the opinion that the development has been slow then fair enough.

[Darat]

I guess I just don't understand this logic. In principle, there is nothing I could do with the new desktop I just built that I couldn't do with the desktop I had 10 years ago. I don't see how this translates to slow development.

There is a difference there is not the rapid turnover of hardware in the "personal computing" space (plus of course it could be argued that PC development is another example of slow development - BIOS still predominating even with new MBs for example). Most mobile phone manufacturers offer many, many new phones in the space of a year, people like me are generally the exception (keeping a mobile for so long) in regards to updating a mobile phone. Given my perspective the development really does look slow (except for as I said the "Moore's law" stuff).

[Policenaut]

I think very few to no one on this forum share your opinion and I think several of us keep up with mobile phone news. I'm going to repeat myself here but I think you are maybe intentionally ignoring some of these advancements. Things upgraded that fall under Moore's law logically contribute to other advancements previously impossible on cell phones. The phones processors have gotten much faster and now are dual cores, soon to be quad cores to allow for more sophisticated programs and games to be used. The ram has gone up significantly to allow for multitasking and use of programs that need high amounts of ram. On board storage plus expandable storage via microsd cards up to 32gigs allows for vast amounts of programs and/or media to be stored on the phone. Screens have become bigger, brighter, higher resolution, multitouch with gestures, stronger (gorilla glass), and more responsive. Some may see it as a gimmick but 3d screens are here and actually work. Phones can take advantage of 802.11n wireless (I believe early smartphones were confined to some combination of a/b/g) as well as 3g and ultra fast 4g/LTE networks that can stream full movies with ease. Phones have advanced camera sensors that rival standalone digital cameras from years ago, can shoot 1080p video and have front facing cameras for video chatting. Phones have built in gps/navigation and are equal to standalone navigation hardware. Some phones had pico projectors built in (that was a big buzz a few years ago but now seems to have much less enthusiasm). Phones can now wirelessly charge. Phones can wirelessly transmit video to other devices with DLNA or connect to a tv via hdmi and output 1080p video. Phones in the US are now getting NFC payment systems which are already huge in Japan. Basically I'm pretty happy where smart phone tech is at the moment and I think it has advanced pretty much in sync with tech in general.

[not daSkeptic]

... I think you are maybe intentionally ignoring some of these advancements.

I think he's trying to distinguish between advancements and refinements. The problem is the distinction can often be a matter of perspective. For instance, many would say automobiles are an advancement over animal-drawn carriages. But one could also say they are fundamentally the same thing, only differing in the details of their power plant.

[BenBurch]

A lot comes down to what do you want in a smartphone? At a certain point all needs are met and you you have is refinement. Because communication is what they are for, and for keeping records of that communication. You're not going to word process a novel on them, and you're not going to try to play "Left 4 Dead" on them, either.

[gumboot]

I have expressed the opinion that development in smartphones phones has been slow, as I set out in my opening post I base that on the fact that there is nothing (apart from the couple of exceptions) that my new smartphone can do (in principle) that my 7 year old smartphone couldn't.

If you don't hold the opinion that the development has been slow then fair enough.



To be honest, I just don't believe you. I would pretty much guarantee there's a myriad of things I can do on my phone that you couldn't dream of doing on a P900.

I have only recently bought my first smartphone (running Windows Phone 7) and I am blown away with the level of performance. I can do things on my phone that I couldn't do on a desktop PC eight years ago (when the P900 came out).

[Rasmus]

My new mobile phone comes with GPS, a multi-touch touch-screen that sports a resolution that's probably better than that of my (ancient) TV, motion/acceleration sensors and something called a "proximity sensor". (I haven't figured out what that does just yet - but it seems to sense if someone or something is close to the screen. The phone can apparently turn the screen off when i hold it to my ear during a call, and I have seen push-up counters, too.)

I have been using an app called "runkeeper" in the past and have briefly checked out the current version. I am now tracking myself when i go jogging:

It records the path I run with the GPS and plots it onto a map. It creates speed and pace profiles, so I can see how fast I have been at each stage of the run. (All of this is available on screen and live whilst I am running.) Since running makes it somewhat difficult to look at the screen the software is speaking to me at pre-defined intervals to announce my performance to me.

I think I saw an option to connect a heart-rate monitor, too.

I should be able to let it play MP3s in the background and it is possible - with other software, though - to select music based on the current position or speed.

My results are then stored online for future reference.

My last phone (some 3 years old or so) could do some but not all of these - and then some of the things it could do were only possible after various OS and software hacks including over-clocking the phone.

Yes, I suppose a lot of these things would have been possible "in principle" on older phones, too - in the same sense that I could take part in an F1 race with my old Ford "in principle".

[Darat]

To be honest, I just don't believe you. I would pretty much guarantee there's a myriad of things I can do on my phone that you couldn't dream of doing on a P900.

...snip...

Such as what? The P900 had been sync'ed with my various work emails, contacts, calendars, to-do lists, my personal contacts, emails, calendars and to-do lists, I could browse the web, I could watch videos, play games, hand writing recognition, voice recognition, take videos, take photos, share media and sync via various wireless protocols, open and edit various file formats.

[Darat]

My new mobile phone comes with GPS, ...snip...

From my opening post: "...but beyond GPS...", I totally agree that has been a fantastic development for mobile phones.

Mind you now I come to think of it, GPS was available for devices like the XDA from O2 albeit it as an add-on (similar to the way you could get expansion sleeves for the iPAQ).

[Rasmus]

From my opening post: "...but beyond GPS...", I totally agree that has been a fantastic development for mobile phones.

Fair enough.

Mind you now I come to think of it, GPS was available for devices like the XDA from O2 albeit it as an add-on (similar to the way you could get expansion sleeves for the iPAQ).

True, but the difference is still significant. I used to have an external GPS device (for the MDA Pro) - and it just doesn't compare. I couldn't have gone jogging with that thing, for one, or used it on my bicycle or whilst walking.

But this boils down to what you or I think is significant. (I am sure one could insist that a sextant would be entirely sufficient, too ...)

[Rasmus]

My phone is - allegedly - able to let me use VOIP and my data plan permits this as well.

I can set up my phone as a WiFi router to share my data connection with a touch of the finger. (Okay, so it's more like 5 touches ...)

The positional sensors make it possible - even though I am not using these features - to operate the phone by moving it. (I can reject/silence calls simply by turning it face down, e.g.)

And, back to the GPS, the fact that GPS is now integrated with the vast majority of smart phones is the prerequisite for everything that is location-aware. (I love my call-a-cab-app!)

[Fishstick]

Such as what? The P900 had been sync'ed with my various work emails, contacts, calendars, to-do lists, my personal contacts, emails, calendars and to-do lists, I could browse the web, I could watch videos, play games, hand writing recognition, voice recognition, take videos, take photos, share media and sync via various wireless protocols, open and edit various file formats.

You realize you have calendar, email and todolist in there two times.

Now you can do all those things on a better screen, with better performance, more app support and choice, as well as have integrated GPS (rather than a bulky, expensive add-on), much better cameras / barcode scanners, WiFi (which the P900 didnt have iirc) and wifi-sharing, all in a much smaller package.

I guess if you think all of those things being improved upon/added are not development, then yea, there's slow development .

[Darat]

You realize you have calendar, email and todolist in there two times.


Yep - because one was the business side (so has linked up to different systems over the years such as exchange servers) and one was personal.




Now you can do all those things on a better screen, with better performance, more app support and choice, as well as have integrated GPS (rather than a bulky, expensive add-on), much better cameras / barcode scanners, WiFi (which the P900 didnt have iirc) and wifi-sharing, all in a much smaller package.

I guess if you think all of those things being improved upon/added are not development, then yea, there's slow development .

Glad you agree with my opening post. ;)

[The Don]

I've got an old (2 years) smartphone running Symbian and compared to my very old (5 years) HTC phone running windows mobile there's very little the less old phone can do that the other can't.

The three key differences are:


Bluetooth - hardly a new technology but not on my old phone
Wi-fi - has proved to be very useful
Accellerometer - basically useless but I don't need to switch screen orientation manually


Everything else is just better (faster processor, more memory, better camera, better screen, better speakers) rather then revolutionary. There are only a few things I can do on my newer phone I simply could not do on my older phone.


Set it up as a wireless hotspot
Attach to the internet using Wi-Fi
errrrrrm that's about it


I do have a wider range of useful apps but I suppose there's no good reason why the same apps couldn't have been developed for Windows Mobile. Then again, I really only use mine as a Phone, Camera and Sat-Nav and very occasionally to browse the web so there could be a range of other features I simply have never used.

[Darat]

So apart from faster, higher resolution, more storage, more and better connectivity what have the new smartphones done for us? ;)

I suppose I'm going to have to revise my initial opinion - there has been a lot of development in the intervening years just nothing that has (to use marketing talk) redefined the smartphone.

But I'm still disappointed that my new smartphone doesn't do much that my old one didn't or couldn't, and I still think many folk did not know how much you could do with a smartphone prior to smartphones being marketed at the general public rather than business users! :p

[Cuddles]

So apart from faster, higher resolution, more storage, more and better connectivity what have the new smartphones done for us? ;)

The app-queduct.

I suppose I'm going to have to revise my initial opinion

We'll have none of that kind of behaviour here. What do you think this is, some kind of skeptics' forum?

[The Don]

So apart from faster, higher resolution, more storage, more and better connectivity what have the new smartphones done for us? ;)

I suppose I'm going to have to revise my initial opinion - there has been a lot of development in the intervening years just nothing that has (to use marketing talk) redefined the smartphone.

Acknowledging that you've changed your mind, if you weren't a mod I'd report you. I'm sure that kind of thing is against the Membership Agreement.

When I was in Colorado earlier this year there was a Smartphone (Motorola IIRC) that was being marketed by one of the cellphone companies as a laptop replacement (you could get a docking station) so maybe the processing power is getting there.

If there's a major shortfall on the business use side, I suppose the deficit is in the application layer. Maybe that's what's required. Things that would make my phone a laptop replacement when travelling.

- If it could work as a projector
- If it had a usable full size keyboard
- If it could connect wirelessly to a monitor (or maybe glasses based display)
- Wireless synch automatically with my laptop

[gumboot]

I suppose I'm going to have to revise my initial opinion - there has been a lot of development in the intervening years just nothing that has (to use marketing talk) redefined the smartphone.

But I'm still disappointed that my new smartphone doesn't do much that my old one didn't or couldn't, and I still think many folk did not know how much you could do with a smartphone prior to smartphones being marketed at the general public rather than business users! :p


I think you're confusing "basic ability to do X" with "quality of experience X".

It's kind of like you're arguing that since a 486 could play FPS computer games, and a modern QuadCore can play FPS computer games, that means basically you can do now just what you could then.

Or that fundamentally, you can do the same thing with a 1910 Ford Model-T as you can with a 2010 Ford Falcon.

While it's true that at a very basic level you can do the same things, the practical experience just isn't comparable at all. I don't know how you could argue, for example, that the web-browsing experience with a P900 is comparable to the web-browsing experience on say even a moderate level modern smartphone like my HTC Trophy 7.

Actual users care about the practical experience.

[gumboot]

If there's a major shortfall on the business use side, I suppose the deficit is in the application layer. Maybe that's what's required. Things that would make my phone a laptop replacement when travelling.

- If it could work as a projector
- If it had a usable full size keyboard
- If it could connect wirelessly to a monitor (or maybe glasses based display)
- Wireless synch automatically with my laptop


Interestingly...

Of the first - if your phone could send the relevant display directly to every attending person's phone (say, a powerpoint application, as my phone can), you wouldn't need a projector at all. You can already get bluetooth full-sized keyboards for phones, and my phone can wireless-ly synch automatically with another computer (although of course it wouldn't need to synch wireless-ly with your laptop if it was replacing it... ;))

The only one of the above that's not already an option is the wireless connection to a larger monitor, but if you can carry around a mobile with a decent resolution that you can hold as close to your eyes as you want, why would you want to also lug around a big screen?

Not that I am saying I think mobile phones are a practical replacement for laptops, because I don't, but I think they provide an additional level of business mobility that wasn't provided by the laptop. Sure, if you're putting together a proposal in your hotel room you might want your laptop, but can you use your laptop to keep tabs on your business while you're out on the course playing golf with a client, or rushing between meetings, or subtly while at a business lunch, etc?

[Rasmus]

I suppose I'm going to have to revise my initial opinion - there has been a lot of development in the intervening years just nothing that has (to use marketing talk) redefined the smartphone.

Did any other field experience such a redefinition?

Cars?
Videos?

(I am not dissagreeing, I am curious.)

The one thing most likely to have redefined smart-phones is the intuitive use. It's no longer (just) about clicking buttons, but you can slide things in and out of view as well as let magick happen with a few touch gestures.

But I'm still disappointed that my new smartphone doesn't do much that my old one didn't or couldn't, and I still think many folk did not know how much you could do with a smartphone prior to smartphones being marketed at the general public rather than business users! :p

What were you expecting?

I wonder if what you would like to see would be possible and if it would have been possible with the old phones, too.

[Darat]

...snip..

While it's true that at a very basic level you can do the same things, the practical experience just isn't comparable at all. I don't know how you could argue, for example, that the web-browsing experience with a P900 is comparable to the web-browsing experience on say even a moderate level modern smartphone like my HTC Trophy 7.

...snip...
I used to use Opera Mini on the P900 and the practical experience was pretty comparable to Opera Mini on my new smartphone (obviously not when the new smartphone is connected to the internet via WiFi but when they were both roaming). I remember being at TAM 3 (or was it 4) and quite a few people being amazed at how I could browse the Forum, reply and even moderate via the P900.

Seriously I don't think folk know how good the older generation of smartphones were; for example one thing I really miss with the new phone is the handwriting recognition of the P900, that worked beautifully and was by far the quickest way to enter notes and other longer text tasks, especially when you wanted to make notes with diagrams or drawings.

[gumboot]

Another thing, aside from GPS, which is new, is digital compasses, just off the top of my head, as well as the accelerometer - you'd be surprised how many things you can actually use that for, and how useful they can be. I am pretty new to the whole smartphone game and what has really struck me immediately is that the real revolutionary development with smartphones is not coming from the basic OS and hardware, but rather from the applications. Now that they're mainstream and widespread, there are literally thousands of people writing apps for these O/Ss, and some of the ways people are using the basic features of these phones are truly quite remarkable.

[Darat]

...snip...



What were you expecting?

I wonder if what you would like to see would be possible and if it would have been possible with the old phones, too.

As I said earlier if I knew that I'd be doing it! But someone did use a good turn of phrase, I was hoping for flying cars!

[gumboot]

I used to use Opera Mini on the P900 and the practical experience was pretty comparable to Opera Mini on my new smartphone (obviously not when the new smartphone is connected to the internet via WiFi but when they were both roaming). I remember being at TAM 3 (or was it 4) and quite a few people being amazed at how I could browse the Forum, reply and even moderate via the P900.


The maximum connection speed of the P900 was, what, about 86kbps? My phone can connect at 7Mbps. And display a webpage over 5 times the size. Half the time google displays a website for mobile and I find myself viewing the webpage directly because it's easier.

I have no doubt that people were amazed five years ago that you could use an internet forum from a phone. That's not remarkable at all now. Heck, the first time I went to these forums on my phone it automatically scanned the webpage, detected there was an existing app for the forums, and asked me if I wanted to install it.


Seriously I don't think folk know how good the older generation of smartphones were;

I don't doubt that. From looking at the P900 I'm quite impressed with what it could do too. I didn't know phones like that even existed back then. But I just don't see how you could argue that its performance compares to a modern smartphone. I suppose it depends in part on what websites you're looking at.


For example one thing I really miss with the new phone is the handwriting recognition of the P900, that worked beautifully and was by far the quickest way to enter notes and other longer text tasks, especially when you wanted to make notes with diagrams or drawings.

Modern smartphones had full QWERTY keypads, which is much faster than handwriting. The diagrams thing is an interesting point. There's some drawing apps for my phone but I've never tried any because I don't need them, so I can't really comment on their quality.

Actually while we're talking recognition, I have been utterly blown away by the voice recognition software for Windows Phone 7. It is truly remarkable. My previous phones only worked after some training, and I had to same names etc. exactly right. My new phone I can just string a sentence together and it will do what I want.

[Darat]

...snip...

I don't doubt that. From looking at the P900 I'm quite impressed with what it could do too. I didn't know phones like that even existed back then. But I just don't see how you could argue that its performance compares to a modern smartphone. I suppose it depends in part on what websites you're looking at.

...snip...

Opera Mini is a crafty little program as it uses Opera's servers for the rendering and compression so works very well with little bandwidth. (See: http://www.opera.com/mobile/help/faq/)



...snip...

...snip....

See my post (#77) above.

[Rasmus]

Things I am looking for in smartphone - and which will doubtlessly happen, sooner or later:

Micro-Payments.
This needs to be done by the service provider rather than phone developers

Identification/Ticketing
Airlines allow me to display a barcode on my phone. I am sure there's a more elegant solution and more opportunity to adopt the technique.

[gumboot]

Micro-Payments.
This needs to be done by the service provider rather than phone developers

Identification/Ticketing
Airlines allow me to display a barcode on my phone. I am sure there's a more elegant solution and more opportunity to adopt the technique.



Out of curiosity, what do you mean by these two things?



Interestingly, I don't know if you've heard of Near-field Communication, but it seems like a probable future.

[Rasmus]

Out of curiosity, what do you mean by these two things?

I want to be able to pay little things with my phone and through my phone-bill.

There are some ways of doing this already - premium SMS, e.g.) but I am sure it can be improved and could be used more widely, too.


I want to be able to use my phone instead of paper based tickets for airlines, cinemas, etc. Airlines do this already: You get a message with a barcode (2D-Code, in fact) and display that rather than the printed ticket.

Interestingly, I don't know if you've heard of Near-field Communication, but it seems like a probable future.

Not a lot, but it seems to go into the direction of the things i was talking about.

[Darat]

Things I am looking for in smartphone - and which will doubtlessly happen, sooner or later:

Micro-Payments.
This needs to be done by the service provider rather than phone developers


There are trials in the UK of contactless systems using phones: http://www.orange.co.uk/money/bankandsave/26637.htm

Also direct mobile billing systems (handled by the networks) are already in place, very popular in Asia not so popular in the UK, don't know about the USA.



Identification/Ticketing
Airlines allow me to display a barcode on my phone. I am sure there's a more elegant solution and more opportunity to adopt the technique.

As gumboot mentioned that seems to be the direction Google and Android are moving in - the Google Nexus S has a NFC reader built in.

[Lothian]

The big problem with my mobile phone is the size. I want it to be big when I use it but small when I carry it. Therefore I am looking for a fold out screen and a 'projected' virtual keyboard.

[Rasmus]

The big problem with my mobile phone is the size. I want it to be big when I use it but small when I carry it. Therefore I am looking for a fold out screen and a 'projected' virtual keyboard.

Something like that would have good chances of redefining the devices.

[gumboot]

There are trials in the UK of contactless systems using phones: http://www.orange.co.uk/money/bankandsave/26637.htm

Also direct mobile billing systems (handled by the networks) are already in place, very popular in Asia not so popular in the UK, don't know about the USA.




As gumboot mentioned that seems to be the direction Google and Android are moving in - the Google Nexus S has a NFC reader built in.



So does the Nokia N9 and allegedly so will the iPhone 5. I suspect it will be standard on future Nokia Windows phones. Blackberry, LG, Motorola, Samsung and Sagem appear to be picking it up too.

[Lothian]

Something like that would have good chances of redefining the devices.But then someone would ask

"So apart from faster, higher resolution, fold out screens, ' projected' virtual keyboards, more storage, more and better connectivity what have the new smartphones done for us?"

[Lothian]

Something like that would have good chances of redefining the devices.I wonder if screens could be replaced with clever glasses with an image projected on to the lens so you can 'look' around a page by moving your head.

[gumboot]

I want to be able to pay little things with my phone and through my phone-bill.

There are some ways of doing this already - premium SMS, e.g.) but I am sure it can be improved and could be used more widely, too.

This is definitely what NFC is aimed at.



I want to be able to use my phone instead of paper based tickets for airlines, cinemas, etc. Airlines do this already: You get a message with a barcode (2D-Code, in fact) and display that rather than the printed ticket.

As you've mentioned airlines do this already and it seems to be spreading to other areas too. One of the issues for smaller level businesses like cinemas, that I can see, is that if they're not already using a barcode-reading system they'll have to introduce expensive electronics to provide for this.

[Rasmus]

But then someone would ask

"So apart from faster, higher resolution, fold out screens, ' projected' virtual keyboards, more storage, more and better connectivity what have the new smartphones done for us?"

Hopefully, somebody could then come up with things that are still missing.

I mean, I do want a flying car myself.

I want my mobile phone to have true 3D-projection.

[Rasmus]

I wonder if screens could be replaced with clever glasses with an image projected on to the lens so you can 'look' around a page by moving your head.

It could be.

Al the necessary work has been done; you'd just have to put it together.

I have seen a video of a setup, where two fake windows in a room would record the position of the observer and project the outside-scene so that the viewer would see something different depending on where in the room they were.

The setup was using only standard parts: HD-Screens, a Wii to get the position and then some math to create the view.

[Rasmus]

As you've mentioned airlines do this already and it seems to be spreading to other areas too. One of the issues for smaller level businesses like cinemas, that I can see, is that if they're not already using a barcode-reading system they'll have to introduce expensive electronics to provide for this.

Yes, they would. But then I could order my ticket from everywhere and have it with me.

Now, I can pre-order tickets (and am often not able to chose a specific seat) but I still have to stand in line to collect and sometimes even pay it.

And the reading system wouldn't have to be very expensive - still cost a bit, of course.

[gumboot]

Now, I can pre-order tickets (and am often not able to chose a specific seat) but I still have to stand in line to collect and sometimes even pay it.

And the reading system wouldn't have to be very expensive - still cost a bit, of course.



I think as businesses begin to realise the potential of producing their own apps for these new phones this sort of thing will become more and more common.

Subway, for example, seems to be pretty quick out of the gate. Their app is great.

[Cuddles]

I want to be able to use my phone instead of paper based tickets for airlines, cinemas, etc. Airlines do this already: You get a message with a barcode (2D-Code, in fact) and display that rather than the printed ticket.

Why would you need to display anything? I haven't had a ticket for an airline in years. Book ticket, turn up at airport, show passport. No reason to have a ticket at all, whether it's paper or digital.

As for shopping, I believe that's already possible in Japan. Essentially you just have a RFID chip in the phone and use exactly the same technology as contactless cards. The problem is not so much the technology, but the security. Contactless cards are bad enough on their own since there's no verification, making them an obvious target for fraud in preference to regular chip&PIN cards. Putting it in a phone not only keeps that same problem, but adds it in on top of an expensive device already much targeted by thieves. Add to that the number of people who keep losing and/or damaging their phones and having to replace them, as well as people just upgrading to a new phone every year or so, and security becomes a real mess. I'd love the convenience, and the technology is already available, but I'm not sure I'd really like to see it become widespread until the security issues get some serious attention.

[Rasmus]

Why would you need to display anything? I haven't had a ticket for an airline in years. Book ticket, turn up at airport, show passport. No reason to have a ticket at all, whether it's paper or digital.

Very good point.

At European airports I have often had separate controls - you sometimes did have to show your boarding pass / ticket, and at other times your passport/ ID. Hardly anyone ever needed to see both.

As for shopping, I believe that's already possible in Japan. Essentially you just have a RFID chip in the phone and use exactly the same technology as contactless cards. The problem is not so much the technology, but the security. Contactless cards are bad enough on their own since there's no verification, making them an obvious target for fraud in preference to regular chip&PIN cards. Putting it in a phone not only keeps that same problem, but adds it in on top of an expensive device already much targeted by thieves. Add to that the number of people who keep losing and/or damaging their phones and having to replace them, as well as people just upgrading to a new phone every year or so, and security becomes a real mess. I'd love the convenience, and the technology is already available, but I'm not sure I'd really like to see it become widespread until the security issues get some serious attention.

True. I was only thinking of a phone app type thing that would still require a pin or password or something.

[dtugg]

Yeah, you don't need tickets anymore. You still need a boarding pass though, at least in the USA. If you check luggage they'll give you one there if you haven't already got one. But you can check in online and they will let you choose your seats and stuff and email you a barcode and you can use it to get through security and on the plane by showing them the barcode on your phone.

At least for United Airlines, you can. I imagine it is the same for many other airlines.

http://www.united.com/page/article/0,6722,66,00.html?navSource=itincheckin&linkTitle=mobileservices

[dtugg]

You couldn't stream Netlix to your phone seven years ago. Yay to being able to watch anything on Netlix anywhere (there is 3G/4G/wifi)! Also, yay for Sprint having unlimited data on all its plans!