Norwegian PM's office bombed / Youth camp spree killings

[case#46cw39]

An unfounded fear, I think based more on mental illness than on religion. I live in NYC, lived through 9/11 and the vast majority of folks here still don't believe in an Islamic takeover.

Europe is a completely different situation. This is a real fear in Europe.

[DC]

Europe is a completely different situation. This is a real fear in Europe.

no it is not, why should it be?

[timhau]

Christians. This is what happens when you keep them in the country.


That's the kind of thinking this nutter was all about, and the kind of thinking that those dog piling morons in the news who wanted to knee-jerk blame Islamists for this are all about.

I know. That's why I turned around the "Muslims. This is what happens when you let them in the country" -crap that was flying around the interweb last night. It wasn't meant to be taken at face value, and I would have used a 'dark sarcasm' smiley if I knew of one.

[DC]

"Multiculturalism" for the bombers kind is just code for the Islamification of Europe wherein the Christians and Christian way of life will be demolished. See video for complete description.

they are nuts and have irrational fears and beliefs.

[Darth Rotor]

Once it's on the internet, it will never be gone.. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7avMHN16Y1s

Hmm, so why did he do that video in English?

He's Norwegian.

"Lone Actor" theory strikes me as a bit thin.

[OMGturt1es]

From the manifesto:

I’ve now ordered 50 ml, 99% pure liquid nicotine from a Chinese online supplier. 3-4 drops will be injected in hollow point rifle bullets, which will effectively turn it into a lethal chemical weapon.
...
I received the 50 ml of 99% pure liquid nicotine shipment from China today.

[DC]

Hmm, so why did he do that video in English?

He's Norwegian.

"Lone Actor" theory strikes me as a bit thin.

larger audience

[case#46cw39]

no it is not, why should it be?

In the US we don't have much mass discussions and political parties based around "anti-multiculturalism" which is just code for Islamification. From the news I read it seems to be a hot button issue in Europe.

[timhau]

From the manifesto:

Any news on whether that is true, or just more self-aggrandizement?

[JudeBrando]

This manifesto reads straight out of the worst rhetoric of the Tea Party. I fear for America.

Since it was mentioned yet again, give any example you can provide from such "worst rhetoric of the Tea Party."

[Safe-Keeper]

That's the kind of thinking this nutter was all about, and the kind of thinking that those dog piling morons in the news who wanted to knee-jerk blame Islamists for this are all about.

I know that isn't what you are all about, so I'll write it off to anger, and the heat of the moment. Think he/she was just making fun at the Islamophobes.

[DC]

In the US we don't have much mass discussions and political parties based around "anti-multiculturalism" which is just code for Islamification. From the news I read it seems to be a hot button issue in Europe.

xenophobia is always a hot button issue in times of troubles in Europe. We would have to talk about real problems else.

[icerat]

Hmm, so why did he do that video in English?

He's Norwegian.

Most younger Norwegians are as comfortable in english as they are in norwegian.

English gives him a wider audience.

"Lone Actor" theory strikes me as a bit thin.

He admits working alone, but that he got some training in Serbia, with a group that reads, in his manifesto like a christian version of Al qaeda.

He says the NATO bombing of Serbia is what initially triggered his distaste of the Norwegian state

[Leif Roar]

It is about the fear that Islam will take over Europe and ban and throw out Christians and the Christian way of life.

No, it's not. This hatred -- for it is hatred, not fear -- doesn't stem from Christian or religious sources, it isn't about religion, it's not an undercurrent in any church or Christian group here in Norway. It might sometimes be phrased in the language and symbolism of Christianity -- even in the xenophobe's own mind -- but that's just a camouflage, a shaping, because the raw racism and xenophobia is so clearly unpalatable and unacceptable.

[Ryokan]

Hmm, so why did he do that video in English?

He's Norwegian.

"Lone Actor" theory strikes me as a bit thin.

He says he sent the manifesto to 7000 former facebook friends, and friends of friends. Probably a lot of them will be non-Norwegian.

[Alt+F4]

Hmm, so why did he do that video in English?

He's Norwegian.

"Lone Actor" theory strikes me as a bit thin.

I've only been to Norway once (2006), but it seemed to me that the vast majority of folks under 30 speak English.

[timhau]

Think he/she was just making fun at the Islamophobes.

I'm a he. Can't you tell from the avatar, who is (or at least used to be) a he too?

[Leif Roar]

Europe is a completely different situation. This is a real fear in Europe.

No, it's not.

[bikerdruid]

Since it was mentioned yet again, give any example you can provide from such "worst rhetoric of the Tea Party."

this thread is an example.
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=214488

[Taarkin]

Since it was mentioned yet again, give any example you can provide from such "worst rhetoric of the Tea Party."
Not exactly Tea Party, but close enough:
“I tell people don’t kill all the liberals, leave enough around so we can have two on every campus; living fossils, so we will never forget what these people stood for.”
-Rush Limbaugh

[Ryokan]

He admits working alone, but that he got some training in Serbia, with a group that reads, in his manifesto like a christian version of Al qaeda.

If this is true, I'm surprised Norwegian intelligence didn't pick up on him.

It's sounding like this is something he has planned for years. How the hell did this pass everyone by?

[icerat]

Hmm, so why did he do that video in English?

He's Norwegian.

"Lone Actor" theory strikes me as a bit thin.

If this is true, I'm surprised Norwegian intelligence didn't pick up on him.

It's sounding like this is something he has planned for years. How the hell did this pass everyone by?

He says he's been planning it for 8 years and it was hard hiding his political beliefs from his friends. Made a deal of money in an ecommerce company and set up several offshore companies to hide and funnel the money to pay for the operation. The serbian meetings were 5-6 years ago and the hosts were apparently very secretive. No electronic communications allowed for example.

[Alt+F4]

Made a deal of money in an ecommerce company and set up several offshore companies to hide and funnel the money to pay for the operation.

This doesn't make sense. This wasn't an expensive operation.

[icerat]

Bad relationship with father - Surprise!

Looks like a lot of the "hate" is directed, albeit not overtly, towards his best friend in high school who was pakistani and apparently (according to Breivik) got involved with Pakistani gangs in Oslo, after which they stopped contanct. He claims he even later was involved in him (Breivik) getting beaten up and a mutual "white" girl friend gang raped.

[icerat]

This doesn't make sense. This wasn't an expensive operation.

He's been living off the income for several years while writing the "book" and preparing the operation.

[Katody Matrass]

It's a sad day for Norway and indeed for entire Europe.
I'm afraid it's also a taste of things to come for Europe. It's clear that the attacker was not simply insane, but motivated by extremism. From the simple inevitability of demography it appears that the tensions that breed such extremism are only going to rise.

[Ryokan]

This doesn't make sense. This wasn't an expensive operation.

He had to maintain his cover for years, while working on his manifesto.

[icerat]

A Karadzic supporter. Surprise!

[timhau]

He says he's been planning it for 8 years and it was hard hiding his political beliefs from his friends. Made a deal of money in an ecommerce company and set up several offshore companies to hide and funnel the money to pay for the operation. The serbian meetings were 5-6 years ago and the hosts were apparently very secretive. No electronic communications allowed for example.

How much can we trust his stuff?

[Darth Rotor]

Bad relationship with father - Surprise!

Looks like a lot of the "hate" is directed, albeit not overtly, towards his best friend in high school who was pakistani and apparently (according to Breivik) got involved with Pakistani gangs in Oslo, after which they stopped contanct. He claims he even later was involved in him (Breivik) getting beaten up and a mutual "white" girl friend gang raped.
True, or did he make this up, I wonder?

Thanks to you all for the explanations, the "link" to NATO bombs Serbia took me a moment to grok, in terms of connections.

[bikerdruid]

Bad relationship with father - Surprise!

Looks like a lot of the "hate" is directed, albeit not overtly, towards his best friend in high school who was pakistani and apparently (according to Breivik) got involved with Pakistani gangs in Oslo, after which they stopped contanct. He claims he even later was involved in him (Breivik) getting beaten up and a mutual "white" girl friend gang raped.

pakistani gangs?? really??

[Ryokan]

A Karadzic supporter. Surprise!

Scum and scum belong together.

[OMGturt1es]

Any news on whether that is true, or just more self-aggrandizement?

I have no idea. It's in the "Knights Templar Log" section of the manifesto. It's a log of his planning and preparation.

[Leif Roar]

From the simple inevitability of demography it appears that the tensions that breed such extremism are only going to rise.

To hell with that. This is our society, and we are damn well going to make it work.

[Alt+F4]

He had to maintain his cover for years, while working on his manifesto.

Ah, ok. I guess in addition to being mentally ill, he was mentally "slow". Years to write an insane rant, buy some guns, build a couple of bombs, rent a boat.

[AdMan]

No, his religious affiliations are Christian but not of a nature that's compatible with fundamentalism.

That said, there's nothing to indicate that his religious affiliations is a source for his ideology -- they're not compatible with mass murder either.


I agree. It appears that the police calling him a Christian Fundamentalist was premature, at least based on his writings. This is from his manifesto, where he has a question and answer section:


Q: Are you a religious man, and should science take priority over the teachings of the Bible?

A: My parents, being rather secular wanted to give me the choice in regards to religion. At the age of 15 I chose to be baptised and confirmed in the Norwegian State Church. I consider myself to be 100% Christian. However, I strongly object to the current suicidal path of the Catholic Church but especially the Protestant Church. I support a Church that believes in self defence and who are willing to fight for its principles and values, at least resist the efforts put forth to exterminate it gradually. The Catholic and Protestant Church are both cheering their own annihilation considering the fact that they embrace the ongoing inter-faith dialogue and the appeasement of Islam. The current Church elite has shown its suicidal face, as vividly demonstrated last year by the archbishop of Canterbury's speech contemplating the legitimacy of Shariah in parts of Britain.

I trust that the future leadership of a European cultural conservative hegemony in Europe will ensure that the current Church leadership are replaced and the systems somewhat reformed. We must have a Church leadership who supports a future Crusade with the intention of liberating the Balkans, Anatolia and creating three Christian states in the Middle East. Efforts should be made to facilitate the de-construction of the Protestant Church whose members should convert back to Catholicism. The Protestant Church had an important role once but its original goals have been accomplished and have contributed to reform the Catholic Church as well. Europe should have a united Church lead by a just and non-suicidal Pope who is willing to fight for the security of his subjects, especially in regards to Islamic atrocities.

I fully support that the Church gains more or less monopoly on religion in Europe (government policies, school curriculum etc at least) in addition to granting the Church several concessions which have been taken from them the last decades.

As for the Church and science, it is essential that science takes an undisputed precedence over biblical teachings. Europe has always been the cradle of science and it must always continue to be that way.

Regarding my personal relationship with God, I guess I’m not an excessively religious man. I am first and foremost a man of logic. However, I am a supporter of a monocultural Christian Europe.


Right before this, he has a section where it appears he thought he was going to die yesterday:


I know I will die fighting the overwhelming cultural Marxists/multiculturalist forces in phase 1 and that’s not a problem for me at all. I have prepared mentally for a very long time and I will gladly sacrifice my life for the benefit of my European brothers and sisters. My love for them exceeds my own self serving interests.

[bookitty]

If this is true, I'm surprised Norwegian intelligence didn't pick up on him.

It's sounding like this is something he has planned for years. How the hell did this pass everyone by?

Look at the stuff that gets said on this board. Some of it is really, really ugly and presented with the same conviction that their bigotry, racism or hatred is a valid response to modern culture. I doubt anyone has been reported to the authorities for these anti-social viewpoints. And this isn't even a forum for xenophobes or nationalists. Can you imagine how bad it must be on those?

I'm sure that the worst are monitored in some way. But how do you tell if someone is a seriously bitter buffoon or a seriously psychotic killer? Especially because there are so many of them. Even if some agency decided to check for a potential threat, they wouldn't have the manpower to do it sufficiently.

[scissorhands]

it took almost fifteen minutes to see these pictures, since photobucket is not remotely 'dialup friendly'.
was/is this dude military, or are these just costumes?
...pretty weird ensignia.....:boggled:

is this dude just a lone whacko, or is he part of a movement?
do others share his insanity?

No he isnt alone, lots of people like you in the "9/11 truth movement" and "patriot movement" share a similar agenda.
Difference is that they rarely manage to extricate themselves from their computer chairs and follow through with their fantasies.
He did.

[bikerdruid]

cbc radio just reported this dude's connection to 'christian fundamentalist websites'.

[Ryokan]

I know I will die fighting the overwhelming cultural Marxists/multiculturalist forces in phase 1 and that’s not a problem for me at all. I have prepared mentally for a very long time and I will gladly sacrifice my life for the benefit of my European brothers and sisters. My love for them exceeds my own self serving interests.

Police: Surrender!
Anders: Okay!

He was tough when he was up against kids, but looks like he chickened out when grown ups with guns showed up.

[bikerdruid]

No he isnt alone, lots of people like you in the "9/11 truth movement" and "patriot movement" share a similar agenda.

huh??:boggled:
how do you confuse a question about this guys views and connecting me to the conspiracy?

[icerat]

pakistani gangs?? really??

yes, a legitimate problem

How much can we trust his stuff?

He's extremely detailed. A lot appears to have been written as an ongoing diary at the time.

He tried buying weapons in Prague and failed. Kind of good news it's hard to buy weapons on the black market.

So he resorted to getting them legally.

Really really very detailed and planned. Obviously highly intelligent. Unfortunately not unusual for the nuttiest of the nutters.

[timhau]

Right before this, he has a section where it appears he thought he was going to die yesterday:

... but in the end, he surrendered without resistance. When it comes to sacrificing your own life, talk is pretty cheap.

[icerat]

cbc radio just reported this dude's connection to 'christian fundamentalist websites'.

Well he has stuff in their about gays and "immoral sexual behaviour" and stuff too. The two people he'd most want to meet were the Pope and Putin.

He was protestant but rejected them, essentially because they wouldn't stand up and fight against islam and multiculturalism

so not a "fundamentalist christian" in the american sense, no. More like the whackier extremist libertarian wing of the Tea Party might be a better analogy.

ETA: He had a "martyr's mass" last week.

ETAA: He was on steriods.

I have a horrible feeling an Oslo friend of mine dated this guy. She is heavily into entrepreneurial body-builder types. His photo has looked very familiar the first moment I saw it.

[Information Analyst]

The ravings of a paranoid fool.
Yeah, it's almost like copping an insanity plea in advance.

[whatthebutlersaw]

Hmm, so why did he do that video in English?

He's Norwegian.

"Lone Actor" theory strikes me as a bit thin.

Apart from the points already raised about some 100% of Norwegians over the age of 10 and under the age of 80 being fluent in English and the chance of a wider audience - there is also the possibility of a more mundane reason playing a small part: if Norwegians are anything like Swedes we find that "big words like Marmalade" sound daft and nerfed in our own language. You can't sound grandiose in Swedish, to a Swede. English is the language of "cool" and makes everything sound more serious and menacing.

[JudeBrando]

"Authorities have not identified a motive but have said he visited Christian fundamentalist websites..."
http://hosted2.ap.org/APDEFAULT/3d281c11a96b4ad082fe88aa0db04305/Article_2011-07-23-EU-Norway-Explosion/id-09d0b539f15846de9c88ed84399335f0


cbc radio just reported this dude's connection to 'christian fundamentalist websites'.

Oh, first "visited" and now he's connected... What "connection" did they say?

[timhau]

He's extremely detailed. A lot appears to have been written as an ongoing diary at the time.

He tried buying weapons in Prague and failed. Kind of good news it's hard to buy weapons on the black market.

So he resorted to getting them legally.

Really really very detailed and planned.

What I'm interested in is whether it's true.

BTW, I'm under the impression that bying weapons in the black market is only hard if you have no contacts.

[Kopji]

My sympathies to the Norwegians and innocents in this tragedy.

So, I viewed the youtube Templar rant. -sigh- Like a lot of things, what extremists say is not 100% wrong - there is always some element of real problems looking for some kind of forum. (Wouldn't it be easy if everything were black and white?)

The video if anything, shows that insanity doesn't make a good cocktail mixer. I don't see the answer to issues raised by multiculturalism as being anything but secular, but that doesn't mean that all religious people get up with a shot of crazy laced kool-aid.

I hope that the one thing that comes out of this is that Norway... will hold to their principles of openness and peace. It is nice to believe there's a chance in the world for a peaceful place where people leave their doors unlocked, politicians post their home phones in case someone has a problem, and people are free to discuss what they believe without fear of dying for it.

[DC]

Oh, first "visited" and now he's connected... What "connection" did they say?

he wanted to go back to a christianity like in the times of the templars.
this is fundamentalism, even when this is not the fundamentalism you believe in.

[timhau]

if Norwegians are anything like Swedes we find that "big words like Marmalade" sound daft and nerfed in our own language. You can't sound grandiose in Swedish, to a Swede. English is the language of "cool" and makes everything sound more serious and menacing.

Ah, you have that too. That certainly could be a factor. Also, if he had read a lot of English-language sources and was fairly fluent in English, it was probably easier for him to imitate their styles and adopt their most ominous-sounding phrases if he didn't switch languages.

[icerat]

What I'm interested in is whether it's true.

If you read it, and yesterday's news :( ... it does come across as very very believable. We're talking company names of where he bought stuff (including website addresses). Got his ammo from a US supplier for example.

He records the cost of everything, the risk it might bring him to the attention of authorities, even how he paid for it and why. All of it is detailed, apparently so it an act as blueprint for others. I've removed the link I put in an earlier post to the manifesto. It has extremely detailed instructions on how to replicate everything he did, including the bomb.

BTW, I'm under the impression that bying weapons in the black market is only hard if you have no contacts.

his experience would appear to suggest you are correct.

[Kestrel]

Yeah, it's almost like copping an insanity plea in advance.

The simplest explanation that fits the observed behavior is that the suspect is insane. Otherwise you have to come up with a reason why a sane man would go on a killing spree.

[bikerdruid]

Oh, first "visited" and now he's connected... What "connection" did they say?

actually, they said he was a regular contributor on christian fundamentalist websites

[Ryokan]

According to his manifesto I'm a Category B Traitor, and will be held accountable in a future Nuremberg-style trial. Punishment: death penalty and expropriation of property/funds.

[mbp]

I'm afraid it's also a taste of things to come for Europe. It's clear that the attacker was not simply insane, but motivated by extremism.
He was not "simply insane" and seems to be fairly intelligent, but that doesn't mean he isn't also insane.
I don't think this is a sign of things to come for Norway (or Europe) any more than McVeigh's terrorism was for the US.

[Leif Roar]

he wanted to go back to a christianity like in the times of the templars.
this is fundamentalism, even when this is not the fundamentalism you believe in.

That's semantics and bad semantics at that. "Christian fundamentalism" is a term that names a particular subset of Christian groupings and churches. This man was not associated with those.

If you want to use the term "fundamentalism" in a more technical sense you need to specify that. It's like saying "Oh, but he believes the universe was created in the Big Bang, so he's a Creationist." No. Language doesn't work like that.

[Ryokan]

He was not "simply insane" and seems to be fairly intelligent, but that doesn't mean he isn't also insane.
I don't think this is a sign of things to come for Norway (or Europe) any more than McVeigh's terrorism was for the US.

The nightmare scenario is that his manifesto gets spread wide, and a couple of nuts find it 'reasonable'.

[Leif Roar]

actually, they said he was a regular contributor on christian fundamentalist websites

Consider some of the people who are regular contributors to these forums and ask yourself if that makes them skeptics.

[Ryokan]

From the manifesto:

Being a Justiciar Knight will involve killing our targets, or any system protector trying to stop us, indiscriminately. You will face women in battle and they will not hesitate to kill you. To them, you are just another armed criminal nut case as they will not know your true political agenda until after you have been slain or are apprehended. If you hesitate as much as a second due to the fact that your opponent is female you will fail. You must therefore embrace and familiarise yourself with the concept of killing women, even very attractive women.

[Eddie Dane]

it took almost fifteen minutes to see these pictures, since photobucket is not remotely 'dialup friendly'.
was/is this dude military, or are these just costumes?
...pretty weird ensignia.....:boggled:

is this dude just a lone whacko, or is he part of a movement?
do others share his insanity?

I think he just photoshopped his mug on some pictures.

But the points highlighted by Arcade22 put him roughly in PVV-territory.
(the Dutch anti-islam party of Geert Wilders infamy)

[timhau]

He was not "simply insane" and seems to be fairly intelligent, but that doesn't mean he isn't also insane.

Intelligent or articulate? You can be one without being the other.

I don't think this is a sign of things to come for Norway (or Europe) any more than McVeigh's terrorism was for the US.

My thoughts exactly.

The nightmare scenario is that his manifesto gets spread wide, and a couple of nuts find it 'reasonable'.

It didn't work for the Unabomber. Why would it work for this guy?

[Kuko 4000]

Quote from his "manifesto":



Q: Are you a religious man, and should science take priority over the teachings of the Bible?

A: My parents, being rather secular wanted to give me the choice in regards to religion. At the age of 15 I chose to be baptised and confirmed in the Norwegian State Church. I consider myself to be 100% Christian. However, I strongly object to the current suicidal path of the Catholic Church but especially the Protestant Church. I support a Church that
believes in self defence and who are willing to fight for its principles and values, at least resist the efforts put forth to exterminate it gradually. The Catholic and Protestant Church are both cheering their own annihilation considering the fact that they embrace the ongoing inter-faith dialogue and the appeasement of Islam. The current Church elite has shown its suicidal face, as vividly demonstrated last year by the archbishop of Canterbury's speech contemplating the legitimacy of Shariah in parts of Britain.

I trust that the future leadership of a European cultural conservative hegemony in Europe will ensure that the current Church leadership are replaced and the systems somewhat reformed. We must have a Church leadership who supports a future Crusade with the intention of liberating the Balkans, Anatolia and creating three Christian states in the Middle East. Efforts should be made to facilitate the de-construction of the Protestant Church whose members should convert back to Catholicism. The Protestant Church had an important role once but its original goals have been accomplished and have contributed to reform the Catholic Church as well. Europe should have a united Church lead by a just and non-suicidal Pope who is willing to fight for the security of his subjects, especially in regards to Islamic atrocities.

I fully support that the Church gains more or less monopoly on religion in Europe (government policies, school curriculum etc at least) in addition to granting the Church several concessions which have been taken from them the last decades.

As for the Church and science, it is essential that science takes an undisputed precedence over biblical teachings. Europe has always been the cradle of science and it must always continue to be that way.

Regarding my personal relationship with God, I guess I’m not an excessively religious man. I am first and foremost a man of logic. However, I am a supporter of a monocultural Christian Europe.

[Ryokan]

It didn't work for the Unabomber. Why would it work for this guy?

There is a number of people around in Europe who shares this guys views, and have been calling for a war on Islam for years.

I doubt it will lead to anything, which is why I called it a nightmare scenario - and not a likely scenario.

[Ryokan]

7b. Your trial offers you a stage to the world

Heh...

[DC]

That's semantics and bad semantics at that. "Christian fundamentalism" is a term that names a particular subset of Christian groupings and churches. This man was not associated with those.

If you want to use the term "fundamentalism" in a more technical sense you need to specify that. It's like saying "Oh, but he believes the universe was created in the Big Bang, so he's a Creationist." No. Language doesn't work like that.

i don't think so.

[Leif Roar]

i don't think so.

Well, then you're wrong.

[mbp]

The nightmare scenario is that his manifesto gets spread wide, and a couple of nuts find it 'reasonable'.
There are clearly nuts out there and some might now become convinced that all Europeans need to unite behind a Pope who'll call for a crusade to set up Christian states in the middle east (or other of his ideas). But it takes a very different level of crazy to go from that to systematically killing a bunch of kids on a holiday camp.

Not that atrocities like this - or something different but just as bad - could never happen again. But I don't think there are enough people sufficiently nutty for this kind of thing to occur regularly.

[lionking]

Australia has never gotten over Port Arthur. The impact on Norwegian children, in particular, will be profound. I hope everyone is up for the challenges to come.

[DC]

Well, then you're wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalist_Christianity

how does he not fit?

[Ryokan]

Wow, he devotes pages upon pages to setting up a very elaborate medal system, to be awarded to his crusading brothers. Some of the medals can be seen in his photoshopped pictures.

Note: apprehended individual(s) may gain a tactical advantage during an investigation or during a trial using incorrect rank distinction. An apprehended Justiciar Knight may therefore pose as a commander or vice verca to confuse and fool the system protectors (police) if somehow desired.

Yes, I'm sure the police will be very impressed to hear he's a level 12 Paladin of Nuttiness.

[tsig]

My fear is they are already inspired, have many Internet outlets, and are getting more dangerous by the minute, without the world facing this Biblical situation.

"Multiculturalism" for the bombers kind is just code for the Islamification of Europe wherein the Christians and Christian way of life will be demolished. See video for complete description.

The Bible says that Europe will be Islamified?

[Leif Roar]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalist_Christianity

how does he not fit?

"- The inerrancy of the Bible
- The literal nature of the Biblical accounts, especially regarding Christ's miracles, and the Creation account in Genesis."

These are core concepts of what is today called "Christian fundamentalism," and, particularly the second, are held to be wrong by the Christian organisations and churches he was associated with.

[timhau]

Wow, he devotes pages upon pages to setting up a very elaborate medal system, to be awarded to his crusading brothers. Some of the medals can be seen in his photoshopped pictures.

Back when there was no photoshop, me and my crusading brothers did almost the same thing. We cut out our medals from cardboard and decorated them with ribbons (more ribbons obviously meant higher honors).

We were playing crusaders who saved endangered wildlife from poachers, and we were about 6 years old.

[case#46cw39]

The Bible says that Europe will be Islamified?

yeah no simply that it's a biblical situation because it involves the people of the religions of the bible. If there were no biblical religions this incident would not have happened. never mind. let's just forget it.

[DC]

"- The inerrancy of the Bible
- The literal nature of the Biblical accounts, especially regarding Christ's miracles, and the Creation account in Genesis."

These are core concepts of what is today called "Christian fundamentalism," and, particularly the second, are held to be wrong by the Christian organisations and churches he was associated with.

mmh ok, i dont know, didnt read his diatribe completely yet, do no if he disputes those things.

[timhau]

yeah no simply that it's a biblical situation because it involves the people of the religions of the bible. If there were no biblical religions this incident would not have happened. never mind. let's just forget it.

Forget it? How can we forget it when some of us can't even parse that nonsense?

[Ryokan]

He even sets down how tombstones of fallen knights should look like....

Front side of the tombstone

The front side of the tombstone may be decorated with the following text:

BORN INTO MARXIST SLAVERY ON XX.XX.19XX. DIED AS A MARTYR FIGHTING THE “WESTERN EUROPEAN COUNTRY” MARXIST CRIMINAL REGIME. SIR KNIGHT “FULL NAME”, A JUSTICIAR KNIGHT COMMANDER (or operative) FOR THE PAUPERES COMMILITONES CHRISTI TEMPLIQUE SOLOMONICI, KNIGHTS TEMPLAR AND A LEADER (or member/operative) OF THE ARMED NATIONAL RESISTANCE MOVEMENT, DIED AS A MARTYR FIGHTING FOR THE FREEDOM OF HIS PEOPLE AND THE SOVEREIGNTY OF HIS FATHERLAND ON XX.XX.2XXX. ALL FREE EUROPEANS ARE IN YOUR ETERNAL DEBT.





Back side of the tombstone

The back side of the tombstone has a motif or sculpture of a knight’s armour (this may also be replaced with a shield) displaying three numbers, three significant years marking the two most important battles of Europe (732 and 1683) and includes a prophecy of the third (2083). The back side may be decorated with the following text:

MARTYRDOM BEFORE DHIMMITUDE! NEVER SURRENDER!

The quote “never surrender” is from a statement made by Winston Churchill.

IHSV or IN HOC SIGNO VINCES means “under this sign, you will conquer” and was coined by the first Christian Roman emperor Constantine I in 312 AD.

And then he goes on for several more pages on the physical appearance of the tomb stone!

What a sad little person, sitting at his desk with this for years and years, and it's all crap that will be ridiculed. This guy thinks he's founding a civilization. Delusions of grandeur.

[timhau]

He spent 8 years writing that?

He's actually starting to sound more and more like our school shooters from a few years back, with the difference that he just chickened out from that usual the-last-bullet-is-for-myself routine.

[case#46cw39]

Forget it? How can we forget it when some of us can't even parse that nonsense?

if you can't parse it how can you remember it. I wish it were nonsense. It's easier to pretend these issues are unreal. so i'll do that.

[icerat]

Yes, I'm sure the police will be very impressed to hear he's a level 12 Paladin of Nuttiness.

Not quite

I took a year off when I was 25 and played WoW PvE hardcore for a year.

Conservatism - Alliance, human female mage – PvE, Server: Silvermoon
Conservative - Horde, tauren female resto druid – PvP, Server: Silvermoon

I raided hardcore and was a guild leader in a couple of hardcore guilds: Virtue, then Unit, Nordrassil – Rank 1 Alliance PvE. We transferred the guild to Silvermoon. I grew tired of running the guild and sorting recruitment issues so I joined Nevermore, another hardcore guild on Silvermoon (Rank 3). Silvermoon is the most progressed Alliance server in the world out of more than 300 servers (10 million + players worldwide) so the competition is extremely hard. This means we were one of the most progressed guilds in the world at one time. I can honestly say running a hardcore WoW guild is equally challenging to running your own business with 7 employees or more. It requires an extreme amount of work in order to be successful and get server first kills. It was a good experience and something I wanted to do at least a limited amount of time during a period of my life.

[Eddie Dane]

I think he kicked his own marketing operation in the balls with his choice of target.

there was a big Muslim fundamentalist conference in the Netherlands recently.
If he'd gone in there guns blazing, his fellow ideologists would probably respect him and would be be ashamed to be associated with his ideas.

Now it would make you look like a coward child killer, and much worse than any Islamic terrorist committed in Scandinavia up till now.

I'm kinda glad he cocked that part up.

[mbp]

Intelligent or articulate? You can be one without being the other.
You certainly can.
My impression that he's fairly intelligent (no more than that - I'm not claiming there's a Nobel price in physics waiting in his future) is not based on his manifesto of craziness, but on the way he carried out his crimes. They appear to have been quite cleverly planned and executed. I don't think a stupid person would have been able to do what he did.

[Eddie Dane]

So, was his Freemason picture also a photoshop jobbie?

[icerat]

So, was his Freemason picture also a photoshop jobbie?

He is (or was - wouldn't be surprised if it had been removed now) listed as a member on the Oslo lodge website

[timhau]

They appears to have been quite cleverly planned and executed. I don't think a stupid person would have been able to do what he did.

That's true, but as Eddie said, if you look at what he apparently tried to accomplish, his choice of target was just plain dumb. For most people, killing kids doesn't go over real well. Child killers are bottom-feeders even in prison hierarchy, just one step up from child molesters.

[Ryokan]

I think he kicked his own marketing operation in the balls with his choice of target.

there was a big Muslim fundamentalist conference in the Netherlands recently.
If he'd gone in there guns blazing, his fellow ideologists would probably respect him and would be be ashamed to be associated with his ideas.

Now it would make you look like a coward child killer, and much worse than any Islamic terrorist committed in Scandinavia up till now.

I'm kinda glad he cocked that part up.

But it's clear from his rantings that the 'cultural Marxists' are the true enemies. The Muslims would be quite all right if they'd just staid put down where they came from - it's the 'cultural Marxists' who have undermined Western civilization from within, and has made the Islamic takeover of Europe possible. It makes no sense to take the fight to Islam before those traitors have been cleared away first.

[NoahFence]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/europe/07/23/norway.suspect/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Norway's police website said the suspect is currently charged with breaking paragraph 147a of the penal code -- a terrorism offense, with a maximum sentence of 21 years.


TWENTY ONE YEARS?!?! Maximum?

What!??!

[icerat]

That's true, but as Eddie said, if you look at what he apparently tried to accomplish, his choice of target was just plain dumb. For most people, killing kids doesn't go over real well. Child killers are bottom-feeders even in prison hierarchy, just one step up from child molesters.

In his manifesto one of his best friends as a youthwas a pakistani guy. According to Breivik he got involved with gangs and at one stage Breivik was beaten by this pakistani gang - the one of his former best friend - and was threated other times.

This all happened when he was about the same age as the attendees at the island (teens, earlier 20s).

If you've seen any photos of survivors, many of them are not exactly "nordic" looking.

I wouldn't be surprised if he's fixated on these childhood events - well, he is, they get strong coverage in his manifesto - and the target is what he sees as the same type of youths, and their "enablers."

[icerat]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/europe/07/23/norway.suspect/index.html?hpt=hp_t1




TWENTY ONE YEARS?!?! Maximum?

What!??!

Don't worry, if a prisoner is considered sufficiently dangerous they can be imprisoned indefinitely.

[timhau]

But it's clear from his rantings that the 'cultural Marxists' are the true enemies.

But where he really :rule10s up PR-wise is that where he sees cultural Marxists, sane people see kids.

[NoahFence]

Don't worry, if a prisoner is considered sufficiently dangerous they can be imprisoned indefinitely.

whew!

For a second I was thinking he was going to be jailed in Massachusetts.....

(similar sentencing!)

[timhau]

In his manifesto one of his best friends as a youthwas a pakistani guy. According to Breivik he got involved with gangs and at one stage Breivik was beaten by this pakistani gang - the one of his former best friend - and was threated other times.

This all happened when he was about the same age as the attendees at the island (teens, earlier 20s).

If you've seen any photos of survivors, many of them are not exactly "nordic" looking.

I wouldn't be surprised if he's fixated on these childhood events - well, he is, they get strong coverage in his manifesto - and the target is what he sees as the same type of youths, and their "enablers."

And that would mean yet more similarities between Breivik and our school shooters from 2007 and 2008. That is, if you can take what he's written at face value. Many of the passages Ryokan has quoted don't exactly indicate an individual with a firm grasp of reality.

[Ryokan]

There are several pages on how to conduct yourself during a trial for your crimes.

I don't think it's going to work out as he has planned in reality...

[Information Analyst]

Meanwhile, over at the conspiracists' place (http://www.911forum.org.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=20646&start=0), they're calling "false flag," "Gladio," and all the usual nonsense.....

[Ryokan]

Meanwhile, over at the conspiracists (http://www.911forum.org.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=20646&start=0), they're calling "false flag," "Gladio," and all the usual nonsense.....

Is rain also wet?

[timhau]

Meanwhile, over at the conspiracists' place (http://www.911forum.org.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=20646&start=0), they're calling "false flag," "Gladio," and all the usual nonsense.....

... and in shocking news footage, we get this:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3075/2855246973_d2a7685181.jpg

[Ryokan]

A trial is an excellent opportunity and a well suited arena the Justiciar Knight can use to publicly renounce the authority of the EUSSR/USASSR hegemony and the specific cultural Marxist/multiculturalist regime. After all, this hegemony is nothing more than a global criminal network consisting of fundamentally undemocratic, anti-national dictatorships. The individual countries in this cultural Marxist/multiculturalist criminal network are not democracies and have not been real democracies since perhaps the 1950s. Instead they are dictated by a small elite of political and cultural leaders who deliberately use the state institutions and media companies to indoctrinate and control their own people. The accused should use this opportunity to present all available documentation, illustrations and proof included in this compendium (2083 – A European Declaration of Independence) to claim his innocence. However, he should also at a later stage in the trial demand freedom on behalf of his people and demand that the regime in question immediately and without hesitation capitulates to the pan-European tribunal – PCCTS, represented by the accused, the Justiciar Knight and the national patriotic forces he indirectly controls. The Justiciar Knight must demand the right to form a cultural conservative tribunal consisting of the 20 most dedicated and trustworthy cultural conservative/patriotic leaders in the country. Furthermore, he must demand that that the national parliament immediately transfers all political powers to this newly established tribunal/cabinet. The Justiciar Knight must also demand at least 20 hours of unrestricted access to the national broadcasting company in order to consolidate and rally an initial and loyal patriotic military force (2000 should be a benchmark depending on the size of the country). The Justiciar Knight and the newly established tribunal will then appoint one trustworthy individual in his newly appointed cabinet to be the new national military commander with control of the national regular military forces. Martial law must be declared in this transitional period. (See relevant phase 3 strategies for more detailed descriptions).

If he tries this during his trial, I'm going to LOL!

This is just half a page out of 9 on how to conduct yourself during trial!

[Safe-Keeper]

TWENTY ONE YEARS?!?! Maximum?

What!??!He's 32. Were he actually to serve 21 years, he would be 50 when let out of prison. That's about half his remaining life gone.

More than long enough for him to sit there and stare into a wall and think long and hard about what he's done, knowing he is now Norway's public enemy number one.

[icerat]

He's 32. Were he actually to serve 21 years, he would be 50 when let out of prison. That's about half his remaining life gone.

More than long enough for him to sit there and stare into a wall and think long and hard about what he's done, knowing he is now Norway's public enemy number one.

Bin Laden's gone. Slaughtering 90 unarmed kids qualifies you for world public enemy number one.

[bikerdruid]

... and in shocking news footage, we get this:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3075/2855246973_d2a7685181.jpg
actually, bears will always choose a trail, when they can.:)
they like to be able to see around them while they poop.
i find bear poop in the middle of my drive very regularly.

[AdMan]

He's 32. Were he actually to serve 21 years, he would be 50 when let out of prison. That's about half his remaining life gone.

More than long enough for him to sit there and stare into a wall and think long and hard about what he's done, knowing he is now Norway's public enemy number one.


If I were him, for my own safety I'd probably prefer to just stay in jail.

In 21 years, people will still remember what he did.

[timhau]

Bin Laden's gone. Slaughtering 90 unarmed kids qualifies you for world public enemy number one.

For a while. Sad as it is, the World forgets. Norway will be a lot slower in forgetting (and so will her neighbors, I bet; you guys on the Scandinavian Peninsula talk funny and insist on having kings and queens, but society-wise we're still pretty much cut from the same wood).

[icerat]

Debating this guy on FB with a right-wing american friend. He doesn't know much about Breivik. When I mentioned how some of his rhetoric was straight out of the tea party he proceeded to describe how people in the tea party aren't violent, they're all X,Y,Z.

Where X,Y,Z fits perfectly the public description friends and acquaintances give of Anders Breivik before the event of Friday.

Many of the things he is saying are *exactly* the same things Breivik says in his manifesto. Virtually even the same words.

[Ryokan]

The individuals I have been accused of illegally executing are all category A and B traitors. They are supporters of the anti-European hate-ideology known as multiculturalism, an ideology that facilitates Islamisation and Islamic demographic warfare. The category A and B traitors I executed were killed in self defence through a pre-emptive strike. They have been found guilty of high treason and condemned to death by the highest legal authority in Europe and our country. This authority is known as the military and criminal tribunal; PCCTS, Knights Templar. All the individuals I have been accused of illegally executing have deliberately used their influence in a way which makes them guilty of charges 1 through 8 which was presented earlier.

They were kids......

[icerat]

BTW, it confirms the bomb was a diversion -

Always mask your real goals, by using the ruse of a fake goal that everyone takes for
granted, until the real goal is achieved. Tactically, this is known as an 'open feint'; in front
of everyone, you point west, when your goal is actually in the east. By the time everyone
realised it, you have already achieved your goal.

....

c. Another strategy would be to consider making use of a remote detonation, burning car,
or other forms of arson to attract attention to one location. Ensure that the enemy forces
are heading for this location. By then, you will be on the opposite side of town and in the
middle of the process of finishing your primary goal. This strategy might prove to be
counter-productive in compact European cities depending on the nature of the operation.

.....

5. Hide a knife behind a smile
Charm and ingratiate yourself to your enemy. When you have gained his trust, move
against him in secret

(pretending to be police to the kids) goddamn coward

[Ryokan]

On finding the perfect defense lawyer:

The candidate must be willing to order the components that make out the Justiciar Knight uniform for you and he/she must then compensate a tailor to assemble it. This task will take him several hours so he should be prepared to invest that time. He must understand that wearing our uniform during trial is an essential aspect of furthering our cause and he must be willing to facilitate you.

He can't be serious!!

[AdMan]

They were kids......


He would probably rationalize it by saying they were being indoctrinated and represented the next generation of Marxist multiculturalists, or something.

Completely delusional.

[leftysergeant]

In the US we don't have much mass discussions and political parties based around "anti-multiculturalism" which is just code for Islamification. From the news I read it seems to be a hot button issue in Europe.I take it you do not listen to a lot of the far right talk radio morons like Micheal "Savage" Wiener or Mark Lavin
or the Rushblob.

Wiener is all about "borders, customs and language." He makes a lot of noise about what might happen when "the White Male finally gets pissed off."

I worry about what can happen if some of our militia whackjobs pick up on this and think he made a statement that needed to be made.

[icerat]

He would probably rationalize it by saying they were being indoctrinated and represented the next generation of Marxist multiculturalists, or something.

Completely delusional.

Yup
Prioritised Targets:
MA100 political parties - cultural Marxist/multiculturalist political parties. Prioritised targets include HQs or annual meetings of MA100 political parties
...
Students are considered acceptable indirect targets as f.
example 95-99% of journalism students will support multiculturalism indirectly/directly

[case#46cw39]

I take it you do not listen to a lot of the far right talk radio morons like Micheal "Savage" Wiener or Mark Lavin
or the Rushblob.

Wiener is all about "borders, customs and language." He makes a lot of noise about what might happen when "the White Male finally gets pissed off."

I worry about what can happen if some of our militia whackjobs pick up on this and think he made a statement that needed to be made.

No actually I don't. That's why I put "mass" in mass discussions. I don't think there is much mass discussions, but yeah I see what you mean, there is some.

[Ryokan]

There's a lot of misogyny as well, from calling girls he knows sluts, to saying that women are more likely to be multicultural Marxists.. He outs his half sister as having chlamydia after having more than 40 sexual partners, including more than 15 Chippendales strippers. His mother, he says, suffers from bad judgement and has let his step-father have sex with over 500 partners, ending up with him giving her herpes.

[leftysergeant]

There was an American on Norwegian media, a Mark Juergenmeyer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Juergensmeyer), a scholar on religious violence, saying that both in the USA and in Norway, Christian terrorists are usually far more likely than Islamic ones.I fully concur. I'm sure my Cherokee ancestors would have said the same.

Ask the people who lost people in the Murrah Building.

The scarey part is that the enemy who can pass for us is the most dangerous and hardest to seek and destroy.

[icerat]

Hmmm ... when was the Labour Party's yearly conference held? He regular refers to an autumn attack at expresses some frustration at delay. Did delays cause him to re-target?

[Ryokan]

He also has some thoughts on where the USA went wrong...

In the early 1980s the US was considered a Christian and European nation. In fact, it was considered the most powerful European nation. Today, the US is in a rapid state of disintegration fuelled by mass immigration and the doctrines of multiculturalism/cultural relativism.

So what happened exactly and when did it happen?

The story is quite similar to Europe. The Marxists, through applying the doctrines of the Frankfurt school, disguised their ideology and were perceived as “cultural Marxists”, humanists and liberals. Just like in Europe, they gradually contributed to transform to the cultural Marxist/multiculturalist bastion it is today. Most of the methods used are covered already but I will include a few factors not yet mentioned.


The day when the Democrats and Republicans decided that America should no longer be a Christian and a European country

“Happy holidays” and “season greetings” you say? What happened to “Merry Christmas”?

Traditionally, the only holidays included in the "season" were Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, Boxing Day (in some countries), New Year's Eve, New Year's Day and Three Kings Day. But apparently the US political parties have expanded this term quite recently. Did they ask the American people if they wanted this or did they implement this in an undemocratic manner?

Now, thanksgiving, Christmas, Yule, Channukah, Boxing Day, Kwanzaa, and occasionally Ramadan or the Eid depending on the Islamic calendar, to name a few are considered equal to Christmas in the US. Because, suddenly the US didn’t have a state religion. You see, the Democrats and Republicans decided on behalf of all US citizens that the US should no longer a European and Christian country. Instead, they decided, through a multitude of undemocratically implemented bills, that they should create a non-European multicultural nation without a united cultural identity. The people were never allowed to have their say.

The War on Christmas is ruining America!

Oh, and you're hereby a European nation. Deal with it.

[Ryokan]

Hmmm ... when was the Labour Party's yearly conference held? He regular refers to an autumn attack at expresses some frustration at delay. Did delays cause him to re-target?

Spring. April, to be exact.

[icerat]

This manifesto sounds almost exactly like an anti-western islamist nutcase rant with just the names changed. Another example -

Both my sister and my mother have not only shamed me but they have shamed
themselves and our family. A family that was broken in the first place due to secondary
effects of the feministic/sexual revolution

[case#46cw39]

But it's clear from his rantings that the 'cultural Marxists' are the true enemies. The Muslims would be quite all right if they'd just staid put down where they came from - it's the 'cultural Marxists' who have undermined Western civilization from within, and has made the Islamic takeover of Europe possible. It makes no sense to take the fight to Islam before those traitors have been cleared away first.

Quote from manifesto:
The individuals I have been accused of illegally executing are all category A and B traitors. They are supporters of the anti-European hate-ideology known as multiculturalism, an ideology that facilitates Islamisation and Islamic demographic warfare. The category A and B traitors I executed were killed in self defence through a pre-emptive strike. They have been found guilty of high treason and condemned to death by the highest legal authority in Europe and our country. This authority is known as the military and criminal tribunal; PCCTS, Knights Templar. All the individuals I have been accused of illegally executing have deliberately used their influence in a way which makes them guilty of charges 1 through 8 which was presented earlier.

This quote shows that the true enemy, end game, or mission for him is stopping Islamisation as I said, and that the means to the goal is striking against the supporters or facilitators, who include the cultural marxists. And this is why he chose his target. This is also made clear in the video which has been confirmed to have been uploaded by him a few hours before the bombing. http://theforeigner.no/pages/news/oslo-terror-suspect-admits-attacks/

[bookitty]

There's a lot of misogyny as well, from calling girls he knows sluts, to saying that women are more likely to be multicultural Marxists.. He outs his half sister as having chlamydia after having more than 40 sexual partners, including more than 15 Chippendales strippers. His mother, he says, suffers from bad judgement and has let his step-father have sex with over 500 partners, ending up with him giving her herpes.

I like his sister! She sounds like an awesome drinking buddy.

Hopefully his family will be left alone. They've already been through enough.

ETA: Ryokan, are there any rules, guidelines or cultural barriers to the press hounding the families?

[bookitty]

He also has some thoughts on where the USA went wrong...



The War on Christmas is ruining America!

Oh, and you're hereby a European nation. Deal with it.

But...but...we had this revolution back in the 1700's so that we could be a not-a-European nation. Maybe it was a bigger deal to us and word never got across the pond. Like the info that we haven't got Boxing Day.

[Ryokan]

What could the USA have done in the past to save their nation?

Had the Democrat Harry S. Truman initiated mass-executions of 100 000 Marxist Americans in 1945 (alternatively deported them to the Soviet Union) and at the same time reduced women’s influence in political matters concerning culture and security, there would never have been a silent 68 cultural Marxist revolution. In addition, he should have relocated all of the African Americans and other non-European citizens to select states and given them complete autonomy. As we know, due to the weak and incompetent leadership of post WW2 administrations - US universities, public institutions, the Democratic Party and even the Republican Party was infiltrated by cultural Marxists which lead to the cultural Marxist revolution of 68.

[AdMan]

Because, suddenly the US didn’t have a state religion. You see, the Democrats and Republicans decided on behalf of all US citizens that the US should no longer a European and Christian country. Instead, they decided, through a multitude of undemocratically implemented bills, that they should create a non-European multicultural nation without a united cultural identity. The people were never allowed to have their say.


I previously thought this guy was insane, but perhaps relatively intelligent.

He is an idiot.

[Ryokan]

This quote shows that the true enemy, end game, or mission for him is stopping Islamisation as I said, and that the means to the goal is striking against the supporters or facilitators, who include the cultural marxists. And this is why he chose his target. This is also made clear in the video which has been confirmed to have been uploaded by him a few hours before the bombing. http://theforeigner.no/pages/news/oslo-terror-suspect-admits-attacks/

In his Templar utopia, the cultural Marxist traitors will be executed. Muslims and other minorities, however, will be given the choice of converting to Christianity or be deported.

Islam is an enemy for sure, but it's not his main enemy - it's the raghead-enablers, to use WBC language. Traitors to his culture.

[icerat]

Well this is a surprise. (NOT). You'll be stunned to learn, in his section "Suggestion 1: Conservative model - Back to the 50s – because we know it works"

He suggests banning abortion, limit contraception, discourage women from taking anything past a bachelor's degree.

ETA: suggestion 2 is almost too horrific to post, involving "surrogacy countries" and forced eugenics

[Ryokan]

ETA: Ryokan, are there any rules, guidelines or cultural barriers to the press hounding the families?

There are, there's a (non-binding, really) agreement between the media houses on ethical conduct. For the most part it's followed. Culturally, also, it's simply not done. I suspect they'll be left in peace if that's their wish - and may most likely not even be named in the media.

ETA: They're named in the manifesto, though.

[Lucian]

He also has some thoughts on where the USA went wrong...



The War on Christmas is ruining America!

Oh, and you're hereby a European nation. Deal with it.

Cool, I've always wanted to be European (medieval American literature sucks, what with not existing and all).

My roommate was saying that large chunks of the manifesto are lifted verbatim from elsewhere.

[Ryokan]

Well this is a surprise. (NOT). You'll be stunned to learn, in his section "Suggestion 1: Conservative model - Back to the 50s – because we know it works"

He suggests banning abortion, limit contraception, discourage women from taking anything past a bachelor's degree.

But later he supports setting up Las Vegas style areas where drugs, sex and rock and roll can be had by all! Sex is a bad thing, he says, but after decades of the Marxists sexual revolution, he realizes they won't win any converts by saying 'Oh, btw, no more sex!'.

Really.

[Rolfe]

There's probably a fancy psychiatric diagnosis for all this. Narcissism, delusions of grandeur, whatever. He's barking. Nutty as a fruitcake. Completely divorced from reality.

But how could anyone have spotted how dangerous he was? He seems to have been pretty cunning in concealing it. There are so many big-mouthed idiots on the internet, and 99.999999999% of them don't go shooting up a summer camp full of kids.

He got a lot of his ideas online though, that's for sure. There are even hints of FTOL language in there - "compensate a tailor" rang a bell or two. But at least, if he comes out with any of that crap in court, I imagine it will be a one-way ticket to the funny farm.

Rolfe.

[case#46cw39]

In his Templar utopia, the cultural Marxist traitors will be executed. Muslims and other minorities, however, will be given the choice of converting to Christianity or be deported.

Islam is an enemy for sure, but it's not his main enemy - it's the raghead-enablers, to use WBC language. Traitors to his culture.

I see how you got there. But I have to disagree. What makes them traitors? He was extremely mad at the 'traitors' for sure, but for his military kind of course "traitors" must be shot. I think that's what's in his mind there. But the quote above shows his goal or mission, (stop Islamisation) and his means (kill the traitors who let it happen.)

[Ryokan]

I have to disagree. He was extremely mad at the 'traitors' for sure, but for his military kind of course "traitors" must be shot. I think that's what's in his mind there. But the quote above shows his goal or mission, (stop Islamisation) and his means (kill the traitors who let it happen.)

Yes, as I said earlier - Muslims would've been fine if they had just staid where they came from. After the Templar revolution, they'll simply be sent back. He's not shy about advocating mass murder and genocide, but his intent with the Muslims is simply to send them back. Hell, if they convert, they can stay - they can even become Templars themselves!

I'm not saying he doesn't view Muslims as the enemy. He does. But they're not the main enemy, and he spends far far more time in his manifesto on the traitorous cultural Marxists than he does on Islam.

ETA: When it comes to the US, Islam isn't mentioned at all. It's the Mexicans, Asians and Blacks, who will be rounded up and given a state of their own. I say Arizona, just for the irony.

[Safe-Keeper]

There's probably a fancy psychiatric diagnosis for all this. Narcissism, delusions of grandeur, whatever. He's barking. Nutty as a fruitcake. Completely divorced from reality.Being separated from reality does not equal being nuts. Might as well be that he's been hanging out with the wrong crowds, never seeking any factual information.

All the people who supported slavery and racial segregation back in the day -- were they all mentally ill, too? All of them? Entire nations?

It's all too easy to write people who do horrible things off as "insane" and leave it at that. Reality is often not so simple.

[bookitty]

There are, there's a (non-binding, really) agreement between the media houses on ethical conduct. For the most part it's followed. Culturally, also, it's simply not done. I suspect they'll be left in peace if that's their wish - and may most likely not even be named in the media.

ETA: They're named in the manifesto, though.

Thanks. We have very few guidelines and zero cultural ethics among the news vultures. (Murdock phone tap anyone?)

The family has already been victimized by the wacko. At least the (supposedly) sane press won't add to it.

[bookitty]

But later he supports setting up Las Vegas style areas where drugs, sex and rock and roll can be had by all! Sex is a bad thing, he says, but after decades of the Marxists sexual revolution, he realizes they won't win any converts by saying 'Oh, btw, no more sex!'.

Really.

Women can't get an advanced degree but at least we could still be prostitutes. :rolleyes:

[AdMan]

My roommate was saying that large chunks of the manifesto are lifted verbatim from elsewhere.


Interesting (but maybe not surprising). Where from?

[leftysergeant]

He also has some thoughts on where the USA went wrong...



The War on Christmas is ruining America!

Oh, and you're hereby a European nation. Deal with it.OMG! He listens to Sean Hannity.

[icerat]

Interesting (but maybe not surprising). Where from?

He copies a variety of sources. He does general credit it. I've noticed myself thought that it's so voluminous that I'm often skipping bits and missing when he's changed from his own writings to that of others.

Reading now a rant against the Little Green Footballs site, which is a right-wing forum in the US for those who don't know. He was clearly active on that site. Can't quite work out what he was upset about, but it sounds like LGF folk like to attack europeans as either "surrender monkeys" or "Nazis" and this upset him.

[icerat]

Women can't get an advanced degree but at least we could still be prostitutes. :rolleyes:

It's all about solutions for reversing low birth rates, which is an issue cf the high birth rate islamic demographic threat

[bookitty]

Interesting (but maybe not surprising). Where from?

I've just started reading. A lot of the anti-feminism stuff is pretty much what you find on the MRA sites. I don't know if it's an exact copy or if the same culture repeats the same phrases.

ETA: A quick skim shows that all of it is the same zero-sum attitude that permeates the MRA, ultra-conservative, anti-gay, and Fundie Christian thinking. - Nobody wins unless someone else loses.

[WildCat]

I like his sister! She sounds like an awesome drinking buddy.
Well she's definitely off my "to do" list.

[Ryokan]

Well she's definitely off my "to do" list.

There's a picture of her in the manifesto. She's not bad looking.

[bookitty]

It's all about solutions for reversing low birth rates, which is an issue cf the high birth rate islamic demographic threat

Yep, zero sum. If there is more of them, there is less for us. Instead of resources are precious, with less of us there is more to go around.

[case#46cw39]

Yes, as I said earlier - Muslims would've been fine if they had just staid where they came from. After the Templar revolution, they'll simply be sent back. He's not shy about advocating mass murder and genocide, but his intent with the Muslims is simply to send them back. Hell, if they convert, they can stay - they can even become Templars themselves!

I'm not saying he doesn't view Muslims as the enemy. He does. But they're not the main enemy, and he spends far far more time in his manifesto on the traitorous cultural Marxists than he does on Islam.

ETA: When it comes to the US, Islam isn't mentioned at all. It's the Mexicans, Asians and Blacks, who will be rounded up and given a state of their own. I say Arizona, just for the irony.

OK, I see where you are coming from via the manifesto. But the youtube video makes clear his mission. It's being taken down by youtube wherever found, as I feared and for just this reason - we will miss what his motivation or mission was. But there is just one currently left on youtube so here goes:

1. Title "2083 A European Declaration of Independence" This refers to independence from Islamisation. So that shows his main goal.

2. "Parts
1. The Rise of Cultural Marxism
2. Islamic Colonization
3. Scope
4. A New Beginning"

**Independence refers to independence from Islamic Colonization

3. "The Multicultural (=pro-Islamisation) Alliance:
1. Marxists
2. Suicidal Humanists
3. Capitalist Globalists"

** So he hates the Cultural Marxists for the same reason he hates the other two in his list. That primal reason is - Multiculturalism.

4. He does then go into a long explanation of the rise of cultural Marxism. It concludes with the question "To what end??" The answer is a Marxist UN where in the UN "The Muslim block is bigger then the European block. So if our European regimes transferred sovereignty to the UN tomorrow the Muslim dictatorships could "democratically" dismantle our border controls, completely flood our countries with Muslims, and implement Sharia law in Europe within 48 hours."

Then in caps "THE UNITED NATIONS IS ALREADY A MUSLIM CONTROLLED ORGANIZATION AND ALL CULTURAL MARXISTS KNOW THIS. THIS LEAVES ONLY ONE POSSIBLE CONCLUSION: THEY ARE EVIL AND HATEFUL! NOT NAIVE NOR RECKLESS. JUST PLAIN EVIL AND SADISTIC."

** So there is his primary problem in a nutshell, and why he so strongly hates cultural Marxists along with the above other two - fear of Islamisation of Europe. There is more evidence in the video of this view and mission but I need a break.

[Ryokan]

** So there is his primary problem in a nutshell, and why he so strongly hates cultural Marxists along with the above other two - fear of Islamisation of Europe. There is more evidence in the video of this view and mission but I need a break.

In the manifesto, he compares the multiculturalists as a hole in the dike, while Islam is the water pouring in. Plug the hole, and then you can start cleaning up the water.

[Foolmewunz]

In a bittersweet bit of irony, and hopefully as a little bit of cheer for my Norwegian friends here, I'd like you to meet your newest citizen. Alisa Nordahl... her mom(that bit of loveliness in the picture) and dad were at the Norwegian Consulate here Friday morning to affirm her citizenship.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_110854e2b76c1ea0e4.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=23767)

(Mom's a Thai - she works with me, as does the dad. We're populating the world with Thai/Western mixed
kids - doing our part to strike back at the xenophobes and racists, one baby at a time.)

[leftysergeant]

Would there be a reason he translated his name to english and listed the United Kingdom as his country on his youtube account?It may be that he wanted to reach a wider demographic, as has been pointed out elsewhere. The white nationalists and crusader types are a lot more numerous in English-speaking countries, such as UK and USA.

He may have chosen to work in English because, world-wide, it would be the predmoinant common laguage of the movement types he is trying to marshal. Not a lot of American Nazis speak Norwegian.

There is already a great body of literature and hundreds of films positing just such a Pan Islamist conspiracy as he describes, and most of that is in English.

I had read numerous tracts couched in exactly the same sort of language that this little worm uses in his manifesto for years.

He may very well have expected some of our nutjobs to be inspired to action as well. Not many of them have the brains and resources to translate such a convoluted pile of crap from Norwegian into even the rudimentary English in which most of the hard-core racists communicate.

[Tricky]

There's probably a fancy psychiatric diagnosis for all this. Narcissism, delusions of grandeur, whatever. He's barking. Nutty as a fruitcake. Completely divorced from reality.

But how could anyone have spotted how dangerous he was? He seems to have been pretty cunning in concealing it. There are so many big-mouthed idiots on the internet, and 99.999999999% of them don't go shooting up a summer camp full of kids.

He got a lot of his ideas online though, that's for sure. There are even hints of FTOL language in there - "compensate a tailor" rang a bell or two. But at least, if he comes out with any of that crap in court, I imagine it will be a one-way ticket to the funny farm.
I suspect it has a lot to do with the culture. In the US, the idea that somebody might blow away people they disagree with is not unthinkable. Hell, I wonder about some of my neighbors. I doubt it is like that in Norway or any Scandanavian countries. Is the lack of paranoia a good or a bad thing? I vote for good. The rare time when you're wrong is more than compensated for by a life mostly without fear of this sort of thing.

[AdMan]

In a bittersweet bit of irony, and hopefully as a little bit of cheer for my Norwegian friends here, I'd like you to meet your newest citizen. Alisa Nordahl... her mom(that bit of loveliness in the picture) and dad were at the Norwegian Consulate here Friday morning to affirm her citizenship.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_110854e2b76c1ea0e4.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=23767)

(Mom's a Thai - she works with me, as does the dad. We're populating the world with Thai/Western mixed
kids - doing our part to strike back at the xenophobes and racists, one baby at a time.)

:)

Thank you for sharing.

[rjblaskiewicz]

The "cultural marxist" and "Frankfurt school gradualism" tropes that keep popping up are common in a lot of run of the mill Krazy American Kristian circles these days, and by Krazy, I mean, the type of Christians who think that they are the last true remnant.

[icerat]

OK, I see where you are coming from via the manifesto. But the youtube video makes clear his mission. It's being taken down by youtube wherever found, as I feared and for just this reason - we will miss what his motivation or mission was.

No, because the youtube video was, as he puts it, "the trailer" for his book. It was simply marketing to get people to read the manifesto. Don't judge a movie just by it's trailer.

[case#46cw39]

No, because the youtube video was, as he puts it, "the trailer" for his book. It was simply marketing to get people to read the manifesto.

Trailers aren't lies, they are summaries. So you think he didn't believe all that about the rise of cultural marxism, and its end result of a UN with Muslim majority and all that about fear of Sharia law coming to Europe? That makes no sense at all.

He said:
"The Multicultural (=pro-Islamisation) Alliance:
1. Marxists
2. Suicidal Humanists
3. Capitalist Globalists"

So just by this he hates all three equally and for same reason - multiculturalism. He spent a lot of time on that video and it wasn't to tell jokes.

[icerat]

Never said that at all. But there's a lot more in the manifesto.

ETA: My response was to what you said in the second sentence, not the rest added in your edit :)

Just saying there's a lot in the manifesto that wasn't covered in the video.

[Rufo]

I've been following this thread since the first posts, and it's been one of my primary sources of information on the events since all this started. I don't have anything to add, I'm not investigating any of this myself, but I really, really want to thank everyone who've provided reports on what has been going on. It's been a disturbing last two days, and to see people here examine events as they unfolded and going back to correct previous speculations has really helped making sense of things.

[icerat]

. He spent a lot of time on that video and it wasn't to tell jokes.

Not that long, all things considered -

Feb 15th to Feb 26th: created a 12,5 minute movie trailer (slideshow trailer) promoting the compendium: “2083 – A European Declaration of Independence”. All the slides were created in Photoshop. After 12 days of hard work I can say I am somewhat satisfied with the end result. I would love to make it even better but I really can’t afford to invest any more time into this trailer which might never see the light of day… Not happy with end resolution but higher res would just make the AVI file too large for efficient distribution. Was planning to hire a low cost Asian movie guy through scriptlance.com but I have to conserve my funds.

[Ryokan]

“Logic” and rationalist thought (a certain degree of national Darwinism) should be the fundament of our societies. I support the propagation of collective rational thought but not necessarily on a personal level. Because, if a woman was purely rational, she would choose to not have babies at all, and instead live her life in a purely egotistical manner.

Damn those rational and egotistical women, the downfall of society and the end of our race.

We should strive to become a civilisation where the individual’s acquisition of wealth would no longer be the driving force in our lives. Instead, we would focus much more of our resources to better ourselves.

Umm... Jean Luc Picard, Star Trek: First Contact.

[case#46cw39]

Not that long, all things considered -

Feb 15th to Feb 26th: created a 12,5 minute movie trailer (slideshow trailer) promoting the compendium: “2083 – A European Declaration of Independence”. All the slides were created in Photoshop. After 12 days of hard work I can say I am somewhat satisfied with the end result. I would love to make it even better but I really can’t afford to invest any more time into this trailer which might never see the light of day… Not happy with end resolution but higher res would just make the AVI file too large for efficient distribution. Was planning to hire a low cost Asian movie guy through scriptlance.com but I have to conserve my funds.

Yeah I should have said a lot of hard work.

Well, he will have a third attempt at explaining himself on Monday via his lawyer so we will see what he says this time:

"In his first comment via a lawyer since he was arrested, 32-year-old Norwegian Anders Behring Breivik expressed willingness to explain himself in court at a hearing likely to be held on Monday about extending protective custody. ...

Breivik hated "cultural marxists," wanted a "crusade" against the spread of Islam and liked guns and weightlifting, web postings, acquaintances and officials said. ... A video posted to the YouTube website [said] "Before we can start our crusade we must do our duty by decimating cultural marxism,"
http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/idCAL6E7IN00C20110724?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0

So I'm not the only one seeing this.

[DC]

Yeah I should have said a lot of hard work.

Well, he will have a third attempt at explaining himself on Monday via his lawyer so we will see what he says this time:

"In his first comment via a lawyer since he was arrested, 32-year-old Norwegian Anders Behring Breivik expressed willingness to explain himself in court at a hearing likely to be held on Monday about extending protective custody. ...

Breivik hated "cultural marxists," wanted a "crusade" against the spread of Islam and liked guns and weightlifting, web postings, acquaintances and officials said. ... A video posted to the YouTube website [said] "Before we can start our crusade we must do our duty by decimating cultural marxism,"
http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/idCAL6E7IN00C20110724?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0

So I'm not the only one seeing this.

seeing what? :confused:

[case#46cw39]

Yeah I should have said a lot of hard work.

Well, he will have a third attempt at explaining himself on Monday via his lawyer so we will see what he says this time:

"In his first comment via a lawyer since he was arrested, 32-year-old Norwegian Anders Behring Breivik expressed willingness to explain himself in court at a hearing likely to be held on Monday about extending protective custody. ...

Breivik hated "cultural marxists," wanted a "crusade" against the spread of Islam and liked guns and weightlifting, web postings, acquaintances and officials said. ... A video posted to the YouTube website [said] "Before we can start our crusade we must do our duty by decimating cultural marxism,"
http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/idCAL6E7IN00C20110724?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0

So I'm not the only one seeing this.

this here

[icerat]

To be honest I'm not actually sure what it is you are "seeing"?

And personally I don't think 12 days hard work is a particularly great amount of effort in a decade long plot. You should read about some of his challenges trying to make the right chemicals, not to mention fake prospectus and companies as cover stories, sourcing and burying supplies and weapons, creating fake uniforms, even spending several weeks email farming.

[case#46cw39]

ok you win

[icerat]

this here

umm, well yeah. The cross of the knights templar on the cover is a bit of a hint before you even open it ....

[DC]

this here

:confused: i don't get it

[Ryokan]

Yes, he's using Christian language and symbolism. Not strange for someone claiming to belong to a resurrected order of crusading knights. And yes, Islam is one of his enemies.

[DC]

To be honest I'm not actually sure what it is you are "seeing"?

And personally I don't think 12 days hard work is a particularly great amount of effort in a decade long plot. You should read about some of his challenges trying to make the right chemicals, not to mention fake prospectus and companies as cover stories, sourcing and burying supplies and weapons, creating fake uniforms, even spending several weeks email farming.

he has spent more time playing WoW

[AdMan]

I think it is silly to argue about who he saw as the real enemy.

Just look at who he targeted in Friday's attacks. It wasn't Muslims.

[icerat]

He even reprints others rants about "climategate" (Fjördman?)

eta: yes, Fjördman

etaa: if he hasn't already that guy is guying to have a police/security tail for the rest of his life, if they haven't already taken him in for questioning

[Darth Rotor]

If he was leading a crusade, at what point did he look behind him and notice the column of other Knights Templar not being there? :confused:

Interesting to see what I think is CI influences in this distorted world view of his (Christian Identity movement, something McVeigh seemed to latch on to) but I may be misreading that.

What he did should not surprise us, if we take McVeigh's lone stranger act as an example that I think he followed. The **** bomb is a bit of a giveaway there. (And perhaps even a tangential link to Koresh and the new "we are the ones who really get it" fringe Christian groups).

Alvin Toffler had a term for this sort of problem about forty years ago.

Future shock.

Things are changing, and some people don't handle change very well at all. This is an extreme case, obviously, but it fits into the reaction to change (See also thesis, antithesis, synthesis. He wasn't keen on the synthesis, so he tried to stop the process).

What encourages me is how rare this sort of crap is.

[bookitty]

Yeah I should have said a lot of hard work.

Well, he will have a third attempt at explaining himself on Monday via his lawyer so we will see what he says this time:

"In his first comment via a lawyer since he was arrested, 32-year-old Norwegian Anders Behring Breivik expressed willingness to explain himself in court at a hearing likely to be held on Monday about extending protective custody. ...

Breivik hated "cultural marxists," wanted a "crusade" against the spread of Islam and liked guns and weightlifting, web postings, acquaintances and officials said. ... A video posted to the YouTube website [said] "Before we can start our crusade we must do our duty by decimating cultural marxism,"
http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/idCAL6E7IN00C20110724?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0

So I'm not the only one seeing this.

He probably started with a much, much small idea. If I had to guess, I'd say it was the usual bigot's fear of "Nordic extinction" that was mixed in with fear of terrorism and frustration with immigration policies. Not the nicest way to think but within a normal range.

When he discussed these ideas, it was with like-minded individuals so there was an echo chamber effect. They fed each other's fear and hatred until they could see signs of it everywhere. A massive conspiracy theory with no solid villains.

Then he started writing this manifesto and got lost in his own fairy tale. So much of this reads like something I would have done when I was eight. Secret rituals, sign your name in blood and swear oaths and then burn the paper. Medals and uniforms and secret signs. It's clubhouse stuff for kids.

So we don't really know what was really important because after a while, he didn't either. Maybe it was all about justifying that long assed liberty speech and getting to read it to a live audience.

[AdMan]

Who will rise to challenge Political Correctness? The fate of European civilisation depends on European men steadfastly resisting Politically Correct feminism. Even more, they must resourcefully oppose the wider grip of Political Correctness, the cultural Marxism for which radical feminism is only one avenue of attack.


This guy (as is obvious to most everyone now) was completely off his rocker.

[Ryokan]

Then he started writing this manifesto and got lost in his own fairy tale. So much of this reads like something I would have done when I was eight. Secret rituals, sign your name in blood and swear oaths and then burn the paper. Medals and uniforms and secret signs. It's clubhouse stuff for kids.

As a Dungeons and Dragons player/game master, one of the first things I thought when reading the manifesto was that it reminded me of world building. A lot of the things he dreams up are similar to details I like to make about a fantasy world, knightly orders included.

He has created his own little utopian fantasy world, and has told himself that he can attain it for real.

I wonder if the 'Templars' are real, or if he's making it up. It's an important question. Either he's a lone nut, or he has an organization behind him.

[bookitty]

As a Dungeons and Dragons player/game master, one of the first things I thought when reading the manifesto was that it reminded me of world building. A lot of the things he dreams up are similar to details I like to make about a fantasy world, knightly orders included.

He has created his own little utopian fantasy world, and has told himself that he can attain it for real.

I wonder if the 'Templars' are real, or if he's making it up. It's an important question. Either he's a lone nut, or he has an organization behind him.

I am hoping (to the point where it is nearly a prayer) that it is a watered down both. That he had a group of people who were also playing this game with him because it allowed them to fantasize about being important. But who are the type of people who would not follow his path, no matter how attractive. Or who will be frightened back into sanity by the spotlight. Or at least by the realization that there are no neo-Templars gathering in support.

Clue #1 will be the attorney's well-cut but obviously not Templar-approved suit.

[Ryokan]

Clue #1 will be the attorney's well-cut but obviously not Templar-approved suit.

:D

[leftysergeant]

Would the court even allow a pseudo uniform? I can't see it happening here. It could be percieved as disorderly conduct.

[Ryokan]

Well, we know that this (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/David_Toska2.jpg) is acceptable attire in a court room - this is one of the main men behind Norway's largest robbery a few years back, who became known for wearing a traditional Norwegian knitted sweater at court, and weirdly enough started a new trend (http://gfx.dagbladet.no/pub/artikkel/5/53/531/531105/eldenogbattinyXcopyX6_1206963921_1206963940.jpg) in courtroom fashion.

If this sort of informal wear is acceptable, it's possible they'd let him wear a uniform.

[icerat]

Ok, long out of this career now, but I once upon a time spent 4 years getting a degree in behavioural psychology and then working in the field, so here's a not-so-layman analysis after reading much of his manifesto.

He had an unstable childhood, with no real father figure, went through divorces and custody battles. He claims it didn't effect him, but I think he did.

Something happened when he was 16 that lead to him breaking away from his three closest friends, including his best friend, a pakistani muslim. Given the extreme detail he gives of much else in his life, the fact he refers to it only as "there was an incident and my close friendship with them ended" tells me whatever it is was significant. He refers particularly to Arsalan many many times in his personal story. Later he references an assault on him when he was 16 which he alleges was "ordered" by Arsalan. This may be the "incident" but it seems to be the point at which his anti-islam beliefs begin to fester.

As others have pointed out, there's a juvenile aspect to a lot of his writing and activities. I suspect he may have become fixated on this time in his life and the loss of his friendships and the assault and he's been looking for someone to blame ever since. He clearly blames Islamic culture for taking away his friend Arsalan. If the "cultural marxists" had made him assimilate, rather than accept multiculturalism, then it wouldn't have happened

Like many psychopaths he's clearly intelligent, I'd venture very intelligent. Intelligence can be a dangerous thing as you can use it rationalise almost anything you want, and he clearly does that very well. Thanks to the internet and the power of like-minded association and confirmation bias he's had nearly 20 years to convince himself, and find support, for who to blame.

And surprisingly it's not Islam. Indeed many of his writings would fit in well with the worst claims about "sharia" law. He just wants practicing muslims out of Europe and he blames the "cultural marxists" for allowing them in Norway in the first place without forcing integration.

Muslims per se aren't his core enemy, it's the people allowing them to "take over" that are. He can't hate muslims because his best friend was one. So he has to hate the people who allowed his best friend to (allegedly) become radicalised and violent and to turn against him. And to him that's the political class that supported multiculturalism.

[AdMan]

Ok, long out of this career now, but I once upon a time spent 4 years getting a degree in behavioural psychology and then working in the field, so here's a not-so-layman analysis after reading much of his manifesto.

<snip>


Thanks; this is an intriguing opinion. A lot of it makes sense.

I am sure we'll be hearing very many other analyses in the days to come...

[Redtail]

I just heard about the shootings...

Nothing I can say that hasn't already been said so know that my heart goes out to all of the people in Norway. This is the first time I've cried offstage in years.

[bookitty]

Well, we know that this (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/David_Toska2.jpg) is acceptable attire in a court room - this is one of the main men behind Norway's largest robbery a few years back, who became known for wearing a traditional Norwegian knitted sweater at court, and weirdly enough started a new trend (http://gfx.dagbladet.no/pub/artikkel/5/53/531/531105/eldenogbattinyXcopyX6_1206963921_1206963940.jpg) in courtroom fashion.

If this sort of informal wear is acceptable, it's possible they'd let him wear a uniform.

To be fair, it's a very handsome sweater. Then again, it's a rather obvious empathy tactic.

[leftysergeant]

If this sort of informal wear is acceptable, it's possible they'd let him wear a uniform.

The sweater tells us that he doesn't own a suit. Not everyone does these days.

The uniform would be an attempt to create an illusion that he is something he is not, or an attempt to introduce irrelevant information into the procedings, or possibly to intimidate the court. This seems to me to be disorderly conduct.

He is, in effect, accused of acting outside the formal norms of society, and wearing his fantasy uniform would be just more bending of the norms. It would be just another statement that he places himself above the norms of society in general.

[Ryokan]

Ok, long out of this career now, but I once upon a time spent 4 years getting a degree in behavioural psychology and then working in the field, so here's a not-so-layman analysis after reading much of his manifesto.

Do you think the Templar organization is part of his fantasy life? I know you can't say anything close to certainly about it.

[AdMan]

Do you think the Templar organization is part of his fantasy life? I know you can't say anything close to certainly about it.


My bet is he created it out of thin air and his own fantasies.

[Safe-Keeper]

To be fair, it's a very handsome sweater. Then again, it's a rather obvious empathy tactic. It's a traditional Norwegian knitted sweater. Highly iconic. So yeah, probably an attempt to garner sympathy.

[leftysergeant]

My bet is he created it out of thin air and his own fantasies.Or he may have fantasies of a large body of like soulls who will pick up the banner of their fallen martyr.

[icerat]

Do you think the Templar organization is part of his fantasy life? I know you can't say anything close to certainly about it.

As in do I think it actually exists? Probably not. If it does, only in an online virtual manner, with a variety of nutters contributing and pretending it does, most of whom are probably the stereotypical geek in their mother's basement. This guy happened to be smart and focused enough to make some money.

I think it's possibly also a blending of the freemasons and the serbian guys which quite possibly are real. Kind of makes sense - freemason+serbian terrorist=knights templar

[Skeptic]

It's a traditional Norwegian knitted sweater. Highly iconic. So yeah, probably an attempt to garner sympathy.

"I just killed 90 children. I want people's sympathy. Gee, I'll wear a cool-looking sweater! That'll make them forget it!"

[Skeptic]

As in do I think it actually exists? Probably not. If it does, only in an online virtual manner, with a variety of nutters contributing and pretending it does, most of whom are probably the stereotypical geek in their mother's basement.

For once I agree with icerat.

[AdMan]

Or he may have fantasies of a large body of like soulls who will pick up the banner of their fallen martyr.


That too, but I bet what he wrote about in his manifesto about the secret Knights Templar organization rising anew in Europe (with him as a "Justiciar Knight") is a pure fantasy. I think he was partly inspired by Dan Brown.

[leftysergeant]

I think it's possibly also a blending of the freemasons and the serbian guys which quite possibly are real. Kind of makes sense - freemason+serbian terrorist=knights templar

He may be playing Horst Wessel for the Serbs. They probably still have some vestiges of an organization left over from the militias they formed after the breakup of Yugoslavia.

Might have noticed that they made a great deal of their merely trying to drive out the "Turks" as they called them in Bosnia.

[Skeptic]

I might be missing something, but what is the relationship between his attack and the bombing in Oslo? In what way are they related?

[AdMan]

I might be missing something, but what is the relationship between his attack and the bombing in Oslo? In what way are they related?


He was responsible for both.

[Ryokan]

I might be missing something, but what is the relationship between his attack and the bombing in Oslo? In what way are they related?

The bomb was actually a diversion.

[icerat]

I might be missing something, but what is the relationship between his attack and the bombing in Oslo? In what way are they related?

the bomb was a diversion.

[Safe-Keeper]

Short version: he first set off a tonne of fertilizer in the government district, then, while all attention was downtown, he snuck over to the island, dressed as a cop, gathered the youth (who were watching the aftermath of the bombing on the news ), and opened fire on them. He carried multiple weapons and ended up killing 80+ teens.

[Ryokan]

He may be playing Horst Wessel for the Serbs. They probably still have some vestiges of an organization left over from the militias they formed after the breakup of Yugoslavia.

Oh, they do. The nationalist milieu in Serbia is massive, with lots of 'war heroes' to worship.

Our Templar knight praised this guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkan) in his manifesto, which made me queasy when I read it. One of the most horrible people to live in Europe since WW2.

[AdMan]

Oh, they do. The nationalist milieu in Serbia is massive, with lots of 'war heroes' to worship.

Our Templar knight praised this guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkan) in his manifesto, which made me queasy when I read it. One of the most horrible people to live in Europe since WW2.


Sickening.

[leftysergeant]

Oh, they do. The nationalist milieu in Serbia is massive, with lots of 'war heroes' to worship.

And they have a lot of fellow-travellers throughout Europe, and they pop up in strange places. Like Pierre-Henri Bunel, one of the godfathers of Da Twoof.

[JudeBrando]

"Who Added "Christian" and "Conservative" to Norway Shooter's Facebook Page Yesterday?"

"While the leftist and Islamic supremacist ghouls rush to portray Norway mass murderer Anders Behring Breivik as a Christian and even as an anti-jihadist, the unanswered questions multiply. Why did a jihad group take credit for the atrocities, and then retract? And who altered the murderer's Facebook page? Yesterday, at the time that his name was released, his Facebook page looked like this (hat tip Vivien for the screenshots):

Did he have two different Facebook pages, one in Norwegian and one in English, and he only identified himself as a Christian and a conservative on the English one? Or did he pause from his murder spree to add "Christian" and "conservative" to his Facebook profile? Or maybe the whole page is a fake, as has been reported here.

But in the case, who faked it, and why? Who is so anxious to portray Breivik as a Christian and conservative? And if this was faked, can we trust any of the material that is now being released about Breivik being anti-jihad?

UPDATE: Craig confirms:
"I have confirmed the Google cache on Jul 22, 2011 23:52:36 GMT of the Facebook profile page supports the theory of the adding of Christian/Conservative (see below).
Our PDF printout from the Facebook profile was done Jul 23 01:39 GMT, and the profile was deleted soon afterwards by Facebook, so how was a detained Anders Behring Breivik able to change it?"

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2011/07/who-added-christian-and-conservative-to-norway-shooters-facebook-page-yesterday.html

[icerat]

He does mention having 2 facebook profiles in his manifesto.

I spent thousands of hours doing this over a duration of more than 6 months (from 2 Facebook accounts) and I, alone, managed to send the compendium to more than 8000 dedicated nationalists this way.

ETA: and by the time I heard his name, one had been deleted (the bigger), one was still there

[Safe-Keeper]

Because no Christian has ever killed anyone. Ever.

I think it's proven without a doubt he's a Christian. His manifesto, his own statements, and his FB page all state this. Sorry, but it's a fact.

[Ryokan]

His first Facebook profile was closed, probably by Facebook because of extremist views. His new profile was created the day before the terrorist attack.

He indentified as a conservative Christian on his Facebook profile. He identified himself as a conservative Christian to the police. He identified himself as a conservative Christian on websites.

And he identifies himself as a conservative Christian in his manifesto:

Political view: Cultural conservative, revolutionary conservative, Vienna school of thought, economically liberal
Religion: Christian, Protestant but I support a reformation of Protestantism leading to it being absorbed by Catholisism. The typical “Protestant Labour Church” has to be deconstructed as its creation was an attempt to abolish the Church

The Protestant church in Norway is too liberal for him.

His manifesto is filled with bible quotes.

His videos uses Christian language and symbolism, calling for a crusade. In his manifesto he says he's a member of the Templar Knights reborn. In his manifesto he also says he wants a state church for all of Europe, with mandatory membership.

Seriously, what does it take for you to accept that this guy is a Christian? Does he have to call you and tell you himself?

[Ryokan]

As for some random group that no one has ever heard of taking responsibility for a terrorist attack, that happens all the time.

[tyr_13]

But in the case, who faked it, and why? Who is so anxious to portray Breivik as a Christian and conservative? And if this was faked, can we trust any of the material that is now being released about Breivik being anti-jihad?



Seriously? Trying to spin this as still possibly an evil stealth Muslim attack?

Just because some of them dress their women like ninja doesn't make them ninja.

[DC]

the manifesto makes it clear he believes to be a christian himself.

[gumboot]

This guy would be funny, if he hadn't murdered almost a hundred people. And therein lies the problem us sane people have, I think. In a modern, liberal, open society, when nutjobs spout this sort of stuff our natural instinctive reaction is to laugh at them, and then ignore them.

[icerat]

His first Facebook profile was closed, probably by Facebook because of extremist views.

Can't remember where, but I think I got the impression from the manifesto he closed it himself

I think the issue is he's being referred to in some reports as a "christian fundamentalist", which has specific meaning, particularly for Americans.

Conservative Christian != Christian Fundamentalist

Then of course I'm seeing lots of comments along the lines of "he can't be a christian since he killed people"

Yeah, like Adolf.

[Ryokan]

Sure, some people will think you are a freak for living with your parents at the age of 31 but this is irrelevant for a Justiciar Knight.

Priceless.

[leftysergeant]

Hello? He calls himself a Knight Templar. The Knights Templar were Christian.

Big freaking DUH!

[BillC]

As for some random group that no one has ever heard of taking responsibility for a terrorist attack, that happens all the time.

And even for non-attacks. At least one group claimed responsibility for the 2003 North American blackout, though how they managed to insert a bug into control software, allowed trees to grow into power lines and made FirstEnergy dispatchers collectively take their eye off the ball is a mystery.

[bookitty]

"Who Added "Christian" and "Conservative" to Norway Shooter's Facebook Page Yesterday?"

"While the leftist and Islamic supremacist ghouls rush to portray Norway mass murderer Anders Behring Breivik as a Christian and even as an anti-jihadist, the unanswered questions multiply. Why did a jihad group take credit for the atrocities, and then retract? And who altered the murderer's Facebook page? Yesterday, at the time that his name was released, his Facebook page looked like this (hat tip Vivien for the screenshots):

Did he have two different Facebook pages, one in Norwegian and one in English, and he only identified himself as a Christian and a conservative on the English one? Or did he pause from his murder spree to add "Christian" and "conservative" to his Facebook profile? Or maybe the whole page is a fake, as has been reported here.

But in the case, who faked it, and why? Who is so anxious to portray Breivik as a Christian and conservative? And if this was faked, can we trust any of the material that is now being released about Breivik being anti-jihad?

UPDATE: Craig confirms:
"I have confirmed the Google cache on Jul 22, 2011 23:52:36 GMT of the Facebook profile page supports the theory of the adding of Christian/Conservative (see below).
Our PDF printout from the Facebook profile was done Jul 23 01:39 GMT, and the profile was deleted soon afterwards by Facebook, so how was a detained Anders Behring Breivik able to change it?"

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2011/07/who-added-christian-and-conservative-to-norway-shooters-facebook-page-yesterday.html


From his manifesto:
3.149 The Bible and self-defence

Many Christians claim that acts of self-defence are unbiblical, unscriptural and ungodly. However, they are un-doubtfully wrong.

The Bible couldn't be clearer on the right, even the duty; we have as Christians to self-defence.


3.151 There are no atheists in foxholes – preparing for martyrdom

European Christendom isn’t just about having a personal relationship with Jesus or God. It is so much more. Christendom is identity, moral, laws and codexes which has produced the greatest civilisation the world has ever witnessed. People better than the contemporary atheists have attempted to abolish Christendom and failed.

You will rise up as a Justiciar Knight and gain:

• Partial immortality (an individual who has embraced martyrdom and death cannot be killed, all martyrs in protection of Christendom are granted a place in heaven)

[Ryokan]

About his stepmom, who worked at the Immigration Department:

Although I care for her a great deal, I wouldn’t hold it against the KT if she was executed during an attack against UDI, as she used to be a primary tool and category B traitor for the multiculturalist regime of Norway, high treason she should be familiar with. Tove, being very intelligent and committed in the advancement of her own career under the multiculturalist regime, is fully aware that she is a willing and participating subject/tool for the Multiculturalist Alliance in the indirect genocide of Norwegians through the continued Islamisation of Norway.

What a psychopath.

[leftysergeant]

As for some random group that no one has ever heard of taking responsibility for a terrorist attack, that happens all the time.I have not seen any verifiable indication that the group even exists as such.

It could have been a false-flag operation to stir up hatred against Muslims in Norway. They clearly hadn't counted on the shooter's being arrested alive.

[Ryokan]

Wow, he went from condemning his sister for having had 50 sexual partners, and calling women sluts, to this:

About his friend Marius, having bedded a thousand women:
I think he has been with close to 1K atm including a Swedish midget:D. When it comes to partying, he’s a demi-god and I guess I can call him a master at what he does. His whole lifestyle revolves around having an optimal bad boy Playboy`ish image which includes multiple tattoos, perfectly toned muscles and endless partying etc. That lifestyle appeals’ to a lot of guys but few get to live it so fully.

On his last bottle of an expensive wine:
My thought was to save the last flask for my last martyrdom celebration and enjoy it with the two high class model whores I intend to rent prior to the mission. My interpretation of being a “Perfect Knight” does not and should not include celibacy.

I guess sexual promiscuity is only bad if you're a woman.

[Ryokan]

I will always know that I am perhaps the biggest champion of cultural conservatism, Europe has ever witnessed since 1950. I am one of many destroyers of cultural Marxism and as such; a hero of Europe, a savior of our people and of European Christendom – by default. A perfect example which should be copied, applauded and celebrated. The Perfect Knight I have always strived to be.

Narcissist..

[bookitty]

Wow, he went from condemning his sister for having had 50 sexual partners, and calling women sluts, to this:

About his friend Marius, having bedded a thousand women:


On his last bottle of an expensive wine:


I guess sexual promiscuity is only bad if you're a woman.

Model Whores? Is that the kind you have to glue together?

[AdMan]

"Who Added "Christian" and "Conservative" to Norway Shooter's Facebook Page Yesterday?"

"While the leftist and Islamic supremacist ghouls rush to portray Norway mass murderer Anders Behring Breivik as a Christian and even as an anti-jihadist, the unanswered questions multiply. Why did a jihad group take credit for the atrocities, and then retract? And who altered the murderer's Facebook page? Yesterday, at the time that his name was released, his Facebook page looked like this (hat tip Vivien for the screenshots):

Did he have two different Facebook pages, one in Norwegian and one in English, and he only identified himself as a Christian and a conservative on the English one? Or did he pause from his murder spree to add "Christian" and "conservative" to his Facebook profile? Or maybe the whole page is a fake, as has been reported here.

But in the case, who faked it, and why? Who is so anxious to portray Breivik as a Christian and conservative? And if this was faked, can we trust any of the material that is now being released about Breivik being anti-jihad?

UPDATE: Craig confirms:
"I have confirmed the Google cache on Jul 22, 2011 23:52:36 GMT of the Facebook profile page supports the theory of the adding of Christian/Conservative (see below).
Our PDF printout from the Facebook profile was done Jul 23 01:39 GMT, and the profile was deleted soon afterwards by Facebook, so how was a detained Anders Behring Breivik able to change it?"

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2011/07/who-added-christian-and-conservative-to-norway-shooters-facebook-page-yesterday.html


What is this BS?

He openly called himself a Christian, and a Conservative, not only on his Facebook page, but also in in his Youtube video and also his manifesto.

As he describes it in his manifesto, the recent Facebook page was an attempt to create a "clean" image for himself. But what he is striving for is clearly at least partly driven by a desire to create a Christian Europe. It's plain for everyone to see.

Those trying to create the idea that the guy is being artificially depicted by the media or anyone else as Christian or conservative are liars. Because that is what he is.

[b33fj3rky]

In a related story, Republican Presidential candidate Herman Cain has said that, although he doesn't agree with Breivik's methods, he does agree that Breivik has a point about Muslims.

"I'm hoping I can squeeze a little publicity for myself out of this," Cain said in a press release. "Every cloud, silver lining, blah blah."

[AdMan]

"Who Added "Christian" and "Conservative" to Norway Shooter's Facebook Page Yesterday?"

<snip>

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2011/07/who-added-christian-and-conservative-to-norway-shooters-facebook-page-yesterday.html


JB, you need a better source of news. This is total crap.

[Ryokan]

He pleads guilty to both incidents.

Article in English.
http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/oslobomben/artikkel.php?artid=10080683

Heh, his manifesto said he would plead not guilty, seeing as these were justified executions. I'm starting to suspect we won't see him in court with his Templar uniform either...

[Ryokan]

Excuse my back hand, but that site is actually populated by terrorist sympathizers and known perjurors..

Gotta love comments like these:

From the Google translation of his page:

"I myself am a Protestant and baptized / confirmed to me by my own free will when I was 15

But today's Protestant church is a joke. Priests in jeans who march for Palestine and churches that look like the minimalist shopping centers. I am a supporter of an indirect collective conversion of the Protestant church back to the Catholic. In the meantime, I vote for the most conservative candidates in church elections."

Is this the "smoking gun"? That he was confirmed in the (Liberal) Protestant church when he was 15?

That doesn't makes him a Christian.

Go read your Bible.

Being a Christian means having saving faith in The Lord Jesus Christ and living in obedience to His commandments.

Undergoing some religious rite in a dead church and then desiring to see it absorbed by the false church in Rome does not a Christian make.

...Plus, of course, The Lord did not say "blessed are the bomb-makers".

Christian my foot.

[AdMan]

He pleads guilty to both incidents.

Article in English.
http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/oslobomben/artikkel.php?artid=10080683

Heh, his manifesto said he would plead not guilty, seeing as these were justified executions. I'm starting to suspect we won't see him in court with his Templar uniform either...


Of course not. He's a *********** coward.

[leftysergeant]

Seriously? Did anyone tell him that Breivik also wants USA to be split in two - into the Confederate States of America – CSA, and the Multiculturalist States of America – MSA, and that the former will be for white European Christians, and that people like him will be deported to the latter?The idea of a whites-only homeland in America has been popular among the terrorist community here for decades.

I follow them rather closely because a lot of them want to build it where I live and I have no intention of moving any further than to where my firearms are stored when they make their move. Out of three siblings, none of us married into the same race, so I have a personal interest in seeing that the Aryan wankers do not win.

[mbp]

Well, he's obviously not a true scotsman christian. :)

[Leif Roar]

He pleads guilty to both incidents.

Article in English.
http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/oslobomben/artikkel.php?artid=10080683

Heh, his manifesto said he would plead not guilty, seeing as these were justified executions. I'm starting to suspect we won't see him in court with his Templar uniform either...

He is pleading not guilty -- he only acknowledges that he is behind the attacks.

[Cain]

While the smears are already well under way, I want to point out that this guy was a right-winger by European standards, which means that in U.S. terms he supported Obama. More blood on the hands of Democrats.

[timhau]

The problem with that is that a bunch of useless drongos will pick up the narrative like it was the second edition of Mein Kampf.

The incurables will do that no matter what, but the guy is a 31-year-old man who has his own chivalric order with photoshopped medals, thinks girls are gross but idolizes a friend who's actually done it with a live one, and lives with his mom. That should show anyone you can actually reach how pathetic he is.

Heck, he's like an older, evil Calvin (of the Calvin & Hobbes fame), minus the cuteness. In fact, I bet the working title for the Justiciar Knights was G.R.O.S.S. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvin_and_Hobbes#G.R.O.S.S.)

[timhau]

I smell witch hunts brewing up now.

No, that's bovine feces. Witch hunts smell like barbecue.

[leftysergeant]

No, that's feces. Witch hunts smell like barbecue.And I just smelled a whole pile of CT woo.

[Noztradamus]

Originally Posted by Cain
While the smears are already well under way, I want to point out that this guy was a right-winger by European standards, which means that in U.S. terms he supported Obama. More blood on the hands of Democrats.

If you're aiming for stupidity, you're doing a tremendous job.

It's satire on the meme: Amerkkka is horrible, by enlighted eurostandards its liberals are conservative and its moonbat leftists are social democrats.

It's all relative. Like I normally mock USAians for their irony deficiency, not acknowledging Americans possess razor sharp wit, when compared to a bunch of swedes. (See, there I go again)

[USEagle13]

All I know is....from the info available in this thread (appreciate it guys it was way informative than the news BS)

1.he is a self porclaimed Christian
2.was in the military
3.is in a masonic order
4.hates his parents
5.likes prostitutes but doesn't think women should act like prostitutes
6.was a 31 yr old virgin b4 he got prostitutes night b4 he did the crime
7.is racist
8.evidently hates his govt
9.hates marxists
10.hates islamists
11.hates other christians
12.has a weird vision of some new kind of new Catholic order to rule Europe

Now that last one sounds like some kind of revival of the Holy Roman Empire which in biblical terms is the Kingdom of the antichrist

Edited for rule 11.

[gumboot]

Shouldn't Norwegian justice be left to Norwegians? We'll handle this our own way, thankyouverymuch.

Well said. Whatever any of us may or may not think about the appropriateness of his likely sentence in Norway, they're the victims, it's their country, and up to them to decide appropriate sentence.

[Here_to_learn]

Mina tankar går till offren, de anhöriga och den norska befolkningen.

Having had NRK running either on the TV or the computer since soon after it happened I must say that PM Stoltenberg and minister of justice Storberget has showed strength in a very hard situation - I find that impressive and admirable.

[USEagle13]

Well said. Whatever any of us may or may not think about the appropriateness of his likely sentence in Norway, they're the victims, it's their country, and up to them to decide appropriate sentence.

Yeah my personal feeling aside (about the killer) I agree with that too. Good luck to the Norwegians they are good ppl and deserve better. My condolences to the country and the families affected.

[DC]

Anything new about a second suspect they have spoken of ?

[Information Analyst]

Is rain also wet?

Yeah, I know, they're just so pathetically predictable. The English Defence League are also frantically trying to disassociate themselves, while their Casuals United stormtroopers are saying it's all a set up because - of all things - Breivik is "too blonde" to be Norwegian, and that "too many" kids were killed to be the work of one person!

It would be funny if it wasn't so horribly serious....

[leftysergeant]

Yeah, I know, they're just so pathetically predictable. The English Defence League are also frantically trying to disassociate themselves, while their Casuals United stormtroopers are saying it's all a set up because - of all things - Breivik is "too blonde" to be Norwegian, and that "too many" kids were killed to be the work of one person!

Kind of sounds like the way that Trochmann and Olson bailed out on Timothy McVeigh.

[ddt]

First of all, my heart goes out to all Norwegians for this tragic loss of life.

Remarks like "Norway has lost its innocence" and "such an act was unthinkable" are very much like what was said in Holland when Pim Fortuyn was murdered. Since then, the political climate and the level of vitriol uttered has only worsened. I hope the same doesn't happen in Norway - but then, murdering dozens of kids is quite a different thing than murdering a politician.


But the points highlighted by Arcade22 put him roughly in PVV-territory.
(the Dutch anti-islam party of Geert Wilders infamy)
Many of Breivik's points coincide with what you can read with Wilders or his supporters. The anti-Islam screeds; the blaming of the "cultural Marxists" - the Dutch blogosphere speaks of the "left church" - for boundless immigration of Muslims; everything got wrong in 1968; etc.

It's a good thing that Wilders spoke in very strong words about the attacks, "runs counter to everything we stand for". Of course, a lot of Breivik's ideas do originate with the whole anti-Islam movement and people like Wilders and Pam Geller. It takes only one unhinged person to take those ideas to an extreme conclusion.

[Kuko 4000]

The killer, and also the writer / compiler of the "manifesto" clearly sees historical crusades as self-defense and therefore acceptable. The chapter "3.149 The Bible and self-defence" is a very disturbing read, some quotes:

"Clearly, this is not a pacifist God we serve. It's God who teaches our hands to war and our fingers to fight. Over and over again throughout the Old Testament, His people are commanded to fight with the best weapons available to them at that time. And what were those weapons? Swords. They didn't have firearms, but they had side-arms.

In fact, in the New Testament, Jesus commanded His disciples to buy them and equip them.

Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."

Matthew 26:52-54: "Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. Thinkest thou that I cannot now
pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?"

"In the context of cultural conservative Europeans current war against the cultural Marxist/multiculturalist elites and the ongoing Islamic invasion through Islamic demographic warfare against Europe, every military action against our enemies is
considered self defence. There will be much suffering and destruction but eventually we will succeed and may be able to start rebuilding."

"There are many passages that talk about war and violence that God approves of, such as David slaying Goliath (1 Samuel 17). Not to mention the fact that God commanded the Israelites to completely destroy everyone and everything in the Promised Land!"


‎"God will anoint you with his power to go into battle

If you are operating under a full surrender with God the Father, and walking in all of God's ways and staying out of any serious sins and transgressions against Him - then the next thing you will need to fully realise is that God will now anoint you with His power if you are forced to go into battle with your enemy.

The Bible tells us that we are now all good soldiers of Jesus Christ. Whether we want to face up to it or not, we are all living in a war zone as a result of the curse of Adam and Eve that is still in full operation on this earth. Anyone of us at anytime can come under human or demonic attack. The daily news will prove that to you without any shadow of a doubt.

Each Christian must now make their own personal decision on all of this. You can either choose to learn how to rise up in the power of your Lord and Saviour and learn how to become a true warrior in the Lord, or you can continue to keep your head in the sand and oppressor after oppressor keep beating you down. The choice is yours.

The following verses will show you that God can anoint you with His power to defeat any enemy that may come your way - but you first have to be willing to step into that anointing, and then be willing to take your enemy head on before God will release His anointing through you to be able to defeat that enemy.

Again, study these verses very carefully - as they will show you the incredible supernatural power that God can channel through you if you would be willing to step into and walk with His anointing."

"If you faint in the day of adversity, your strength is small." (Proverbs 24:10)

The verse is telling you that if you faint in the day of any kind of adversity, that your strength will be considered small in the eyes of God. In other words, God is telling you that He does not want you to be a wimp - and He is
expecting each and every one of us to learn how to war against any enemy or challenge that could come our way operating under His authority, power and anointing to be able to do so. This is why we are all called to be soldiers of Jesus Christ, not just a select few.

God will go before you to fight your battles

Sometimes God will simply run a protective shield around you where nothing can get through to attack you. Other times something will start to slip through to come directly against you - and then God will move ahead of you to take it out. This is where God will literally take your enemy head on and do battle with it. Sometimes God will fight the actual battle through you - other times He will simply tell you to hold your ground and position and do absolutely nothing - and then He will move Himself to completely take out the attack coming against you. This is where God shows you how powerful and how awesome He really is when He moves into battle to personally
protect you.

The last verse shows that sometimes angels can literally appear to you as a normal human being, usually for the purpose of helping you out with something. There are countless testimonies from people who have been helped out by angels in a moment of crisis - and then all of sudden they are gone as quick as they came.


And the one who has no sword must sell his cloak and buy one." (Luke 22:36)

This passage allows for the use of fighting in self-defence.

[gzzz]

He pleads guilty to both incidents.

Actually he pleaded "not guilty," but acknowledged that he was responsible. I think it's what's called "no contest" in the US?

[Information Analyst]

Yes, as I said earlier - Muslims would've been fine if they had just staid where they came from. After the Templar revolution, they'll simply be sent back. He's not shy about advocating mass murder and genocide, but his intent with the Muslims is simply to send them back. Hell, if they convert, they can stay - they can even become Templars themselves!

I'm not saying he doesn't view Muslims as the enemy. He does. But they're not the main enemy, and he spends far far more time in his manifesto on the traitorous cultural Marxists than he does on Islam.
I only managed to make it through the video, but from that it did seem that he was more railing against the "destruction" of Christian/Western/European society in itself, with Islam just used as a tool for that by the "Cultural Marxists." What seemed lacking (surprise, surprise), is just what the end result of that destruction is supposed to be, and why anyone would want to do it in the first place.

[timhau]

Anything new about a second suspect they have spoken of ?

From a 2-hour-old article in the web pages of Finland's largest daily:


He says he worked alone
The police are still looking into the possibility of a second gunman, although they have no additional suspects as of now.


If all the evidence they ever had for a second shooter was eyewitness statements, the evidence for one is really slim. I'm taking a wait-and-see attitude; I bet the Norwegians are sparing no resources in the investigation.

[let`s talk]

There's probably a fancy psychiatric diagnosis for all this. Narcissism, delusions of grandeur, whatever. He's barking. Nutty as a fruitcake. Completely divorced from reality.
That's the easiest way- to say the guy is a loon. If the attack was done by Muslims, the media would say it was part of the war. But if it is committed by a Nordic hunk, he is just a psycho.


Isn't it the fact that there have been a lot of rapes in Sweden and Norway, where victims were white and rapers were Muslims? One 14yo comitted a suicide in Norway after she got raped by 3 Muslims. What exactly has been done by the government to deal with these rapes? Nothing particular I believe.

No wonder that one day one guy freaked out.

[timhau]

I only managed to make it through the video, but from that it did seem that he was more railing against the "destruction" of Christian/Western/European society in itself, with Islam just used as a tool for that by the "Cultural Marxists." What seemed lacking (surprise, surprise), is just what the end result of that destruction is supposed to be, and why anyone would want to do it in the first place.

The not-1950s, I assume. I, for one, can think of quite a few reasons why I don't want to go back to the 1950s.

[timhau]

Isn't it the fact that there have been a lot of rapes in Sweden and Norway, where victims were white and rapers were Muslims? One 14yo comitted a suicide in Norway after she got raped by 3 Muslims. What exactly has been done by the government to deal with these rapes? Nothing particular I believe.

No wonder that one day one guy freaked out.

In other words, the society made him do it.

[USEagle13]

From what I got from it he wanted a revival of the Holy Roman Empire (kingdom of the antichrist)

I wouldn't expect aetheists to catch on tho.....they just see the word Christian and BaM. Assumptions go wild.

[Modesty78]

Norwegian police have arrested a group of people in Oslo, and confirm the arrests are connected to the attacks.
http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/oslobomben/artikkel.php?artid=10080699
The article is in Norwegian.

According to vg.no the building is populated by eastern Europeans, but this isn't confirmed by police.

[icerat]

All I know is....from the info available in this thread (appreciate it guys it was way informative than the news BS)

1.he is a self porclaimed Christian
[quote]2.was in the military
He wasn't in the military, he avoided Norway's compulsory military

6.was a 31 yr old virgin b4 he got prostitutes night b4 he did the crime
No evidence he was a virgin

Anything new about a second suspect they have spoken of ?

Police said shortly after media started with that speculation that it was wrong, that they had no reason to believe there was anyone else involved and media should not scaremonger.

[leftysergeant]

If all the evidence they ever had for a second shooter was eyewitness statements, the evidence for one is really slim. I'm taking a wait-and-see attitude; I bet the Norwegians are sparing no resources in the investigation.

I'm working from memory here, since I forgot where I read it, but some witnesses said that he was apparently talking into an ear piece, and others describe him as babling and laughing and making random coments as he fired his weapons.

It seems to me that the third party may have been his ear crickets.

[Modesty78]

Police said shortly after media started with that speculation that it was wrong, that they had no reason to believe there was anyone else involved and media should not scaremonger.

But they have now arrested a number of people (who have nothing to do with the kid they arrested yesterday) in relation to the attacks (this is confirmed). There isn't a lot of information about the arrests though.

[leftysergeant]

According to vg.no the building is populated by eastern Europeans, but this isn't confirmed by police.

If they are Serbian and have any known connection to the shooter, this should be looked at VERY closely. Otherwise, I would not get too excited about it.

[timhau]

Does the 'in relation to the attacks' mean that these people were directly involved, or could it be that they're just cleaning house and going through some known extremist groups?

[Modesty78]

If they are Serbian and have any known connection to the shooter, this should be looked at VERY closely. Otherwise, I would not get too excited about it.

The link to the attacks is confirmed by police and prosecutor, the alleged nationality (or...well...regionality) is not confirmed, but reported by VG - they have it from neighbours.