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Ocelot
22nd July 2011, 07:32 AM
Jens Stoltenberg OK though
http://www.metro.co.uk/news/870125-large-explosion-rocks-oslo-near-norwegian-prime-ministers-office

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 07:44 AM
Norwegian media reports that several car bombs went off at the same time.

There's little doubt, this was a terrorist attack. No information on casualties yet.

Article in Norwegian and pictures here. (http://www.dagbladet.no/2011/07/22/nyheter/innenriks/eksplosjon/17411344/)

Fredrik
22nd July 2011, 07:46 AM
I found a video of the street outside after the explosion: http://viddy.co/morganflame/video/after-explosion-in-oslo

Edit: This is the same video as the one on the page that Ryokan linked to.

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 07:54 AM
Police reports that there are still two bombs in the area, but they don't know where. They also confirm that there are casualties.

tyr_13
22nd July 2011, 07:54 AM
Well ****.

AdMan
22nd July 2011, 07:55 AM
Norwegian media reports that several car bombs went off at the same time.

There's little doubt, this was a terrorist attack. No information on casualties yet.

Article in Norwegian and pictures here. (http://www.dagbladet.no/2011/07/22/nyheter/innenriks/eksplosjon/17411344/)


Wow--looks like that was a powerful explosion. :(

Are the other car bombs confirmed? The media I've seen doesn't mention more than one bomb.

KDLarsen
22nd July 2011, 07:56 AM
Jøsses, a friend of mine works in an office building in that area, what a day to chose to work from home :-O

AdMan
22nd July 2011, 07:58 AM
For English speakers, the BBC has live coverage:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14254705

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 08:22 AM
Downtown Oslo is being evacuated and the subway stations are closed.

Police is holding a press conference in 7 minutes, hopefully we'll get more information then.

mbp
22nd July 2011, 08:43 AM
This is awful.

But why Norway?

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 08:47 AM
But why Norway?

Speculations in the media: If it's an Islamic terrorist attack... Norway has forces in Afghanistan and Libya. It could also be revenge for the killing of bin Laden, with Norway being seen as an 'easier' target than many other NATO countries. There have been quite a few threats against Norway from al-Quaida over the last few years, because of Norway's participation in the war on terror and also because of the Mohammed caricatures.

AdMan
22nd July 2011, 08:50 AM
I'm hearing that casualties are likely significantly lower than they could have been given that the bomb went off on a Friday afternoon in the summer, when a lot of people wouldn't be in the area. I wonder if that could have been done on purpose. If not, it was very lucky.

Safe-Keeper
22nd July 2011, 08:50 AM
I've been wondering when they would get to us. Denmark and Sweden have been hit several times, after all:(.

* Safe-Keeper really wishes certain people would realize there are better ways to handle political and religious misgivings than blowing stuff up.

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 08:54 AM
I'm hearing that casualties are likely significantly lower than they could have been given that the bomb went off on a Friday afternoon in the summer, when a lot of people wouldn't be in the area. I wonder if that could have been done on purpose. If not, it was very lucky.

Yeah, almost all of Norway goes on vacation during these weeks - including the politicians. If they wanted to minimize casualties, this would be the perfect time to strike.

mbp
22nd July 2011, 08:55 AM
Yes, I suppose it would be something along those lines.
Those reasons would seem to apply to many countries, so maybe they just somehow found Oslo a convenient target. Although I can't really see why that would be the case.

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 09:01 AM
The police is holding a press conference now.

2 people confirmed dead, 15 wounded.

They encourage people to leave downtown Oslo.

They can't say anything about who did this or their motives.

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 09:13 AM
There are also reports of shooting at Utøya, an island where the Labour Party Youth gathers every summer. Quite a few of the political leadership of Norway will be present there. Witnesses say the shooter was dressed as a police man. No one knows if there's a connection to the Oslo bombing.

ETA: The 'police man' said he was there as a routine check because of the terrorist attack, then opened fire and several people are wounded.

Brainster
22nd July 2011, 09:20 AM
ABC News speculates (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/oslo-explosion-blast-result-massive-vehicle-bomb-sources/story?id=14134197):

Earlier this month, a Norwegian prosecutor filed terrorism charges against an Iraqi-born cleric who had allegedly threatened the lives of Norwegian politicians. Mullah Krekar, the founder of the Kurdish Islamist group Ansar al-Islam, said in a news conference in 2010 that if he was deported from Norway he would be killed and, therefore, Norwegian politicians deserved the same fate, according to an AP report. The Norwegian government had considered deporting Krekar because he was seen as a national security threat.

icerat
22nd July 2011, 09:22 AM
There are also reports of shooting at Utøya, an island where the Labour Party Youth gathers every summer. Quite a few of the political leadership of Norway will be present there. Witnesses say the shooter was dressed as a police man. No one knows if there's a connection to the Oslo bombing.

ETA: The 'police man' said he was there as a routine check because of the terrorist attack, then opened fire and several people are wounded.

Makes one wonder if it's neo-Nazi attack?

BowlOfRed
22nd July 2011, 09:22 AM
Yeah, almost all of Norway goes on vacation during these weeks - including the politicians. If they wanted to minimize casualties, this would be the perfect time to strike.

I didn't realize there was anyone was left in the country. I thought everyone went down to watch the Tour de France.

AdMan
22nd July 2011, 09:24 AM
Makes one wonder if it's neo-Nazi attack?


Why would that be?

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 09:24 AM
ABC News speculates (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/oslo-explosion-blast-result-massive-vehicle-bomb-sources/story?id=14134197):

This has also been speculated about in Norwegian media, and Mullah Krekar's lawyer has denied any connection.

http://www.dagbladet.no/2011/07/22/nyheter/mulla_krekar/innenriks/eksplosjon/17413985/

Personally, I doubt he's behind it.

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 09:30 AM
There are reports of casualties at Utøya, but the police will not confirm it.

AdMan
22nd July 2011, 09:31 AM
There are reports of casualties at Utøya, but the police will not confirm it.


Are they saying if they got the gunman?

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 09:34 AM
Are they saying if they got the gunman?

They have not. The island is owned by the Labour Party Youth, and there's not much on it except this gathering during summer. It's not easily accessible by police, but they're on their way.

icerat
22nd July 2011, 09:36 AM
Why would that be?

There's been problems in Scandinavia with them, and a gun man at a labour youth camp sounds more their modus operandi than islamists. We know from McVeigh these types also use car bombs.

Unconfirmed that the events are connected. Has been confirmed the shootings occurred, and there are casualties. No word on any deaths.

ETA: the prime minister was scheduled to attend the event, and the bomb went off outside his office, so looks probable they were linked.

Hawk one
22nd July 2011, 09:38 AM
Why would that be?

Because the PM and the party he represents is (very slightly these days, it seems) on the left side on Norways political spectre, and whenever one has seen a video of someone going undercover with a neo-nazi group, they've been full of (mostly empty) bravado about killing what they deem to be "communist scum".

Mind you, I'm not say they did it. We don't have anywhere near enough information about this... At least I don't have at the point of this post.

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 09:38 AM
The neo nazi milieu in Norway is extremely small compared to in Denmark and Sweden. Actually close to non-existent, and there has never been any significant problems with them in the past.

Media now reports that witnesses say at least 5 people have been shot at Utøya. There's still shooting going on as of this post.

Skeptic Guy
22nd July 2011, 09:42 AM
Wow, I'm getting the news on the bombing at CNN.com, but nothing on the shooting as of yet.

icerat
22nd July 2011, 09:44 AM
Note to Norwegians being interviewed on various Media, I know your english is great, but -

casualties != death
casualties = (death or injury)

Lisa Simpson
22nd July 2011, 09:44 AM
BBC is reporting the shooting.

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 09:45 AM
Anti-terror police has landed on the island.

The ambulance can't get to the wounded, as there's still shooting going on.

AdMan
22nd July 2011, 09:47 AM
There are reports of casualties at Utøya, but the police will not confirm it.


At this point it does sound like the two events are linked. I wonder if apparent attacks on the Labour Party make homegrown terrorists more likely to be the culprits.

mbp
22nd July 2011, 09:48 AM
The neo nazi milieu in Norway is extremely small compared to in Denmark and Sweden.If it's small compared to the one in Denmark it really must be very small indeed. We've hardly got any.

icerat
22nd July 2011, 09:50 AM
If it's small compared to the one in Denmark it really must be very small indeed. We've hardly got any.

You've hardly got any people :p

Delscottio
22nd July 2011, 09:54 AM
Anti-terror police has landed on the island.

The ambulance can't get to the wounded, as there's still shooting going on.


****, I am watching Sky News and everything appears to be utter chaos so hopefully this report is incorrrect and people who need help can get it.

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 09:55 AM
The attack on Utøya at least hints that it's somewhat home grown, as the shooter managed to impersonate a police officer. No reports on the ethnicity of the shooter.

Roadtoad
22nd July 2011, 09:58 AM
Watching this space.

Delscottio
22nd July 2011, 09:59 AM
Apologies if already posted.

This is the second explosion http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbCCR3YKnM8&feature=youtu.be

Shocking.

icerat
22nd July 2011, 10:00 AM
The attack on Utøya at least hints that it's somewhat home grown, as the shooter managed to impersonate a police officer. No reports on the ethnicity of the shooter.

Prediction: it's a relatively simple oklahama type bomb, probably set by the gunman. He worked alone or with a small group. May or may not have anything to do with islamism.

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 10:01 AM
Apologies if already posted.

This is the second explosion http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbCCR3YKnM8&feature=youtu.be

Shocking.

Fake..

icerat
22nd July 2011, 10:01 AM
Apologies if already posted.

This is the second explosion http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbCCR3YKnM8&feature=youtu.be

Shocking.

fake

jayh
22nd July 2011, 10:07 AM
The attack on Utøya at least hints that it's somewhat home grown, as the shooter managed to impersonate a police officer. No reports on the ethnicity of the shooter.

Some recent bombers in various places were natives recruited into the religion and used because of their ability to blend in.

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 10:09 AM
The shooter has been apprehended.

icerat
22nd July 2011, 10:09 AM
bravo

AdMan
22nd July 2011, 10:12 AM
The shooter has been apprehended.


Good--hopefully they'll be able to get information from him.

icerat
22nd July 2011, 10:25 AM
reports now that several were killed on the island :(

ETA: bodies being found in the government building :(

ETAA: 7 confirmed dead from bomb now :(

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 10:36 AM
reports now that several were killed on the island :(

Media reports 4 killed on the island, but it's not confirmed by the police.

ETA: 7 confirmed killed at the bombing.

AdMan
22nd July 2011, 10:37 AM
Media reports 4 killed on the island, but it's not confirmed by the police.


Just heard seven people were killed there.

ETA: Now see that this may have been in the bomb attack, not at the island.

Hawk one
22nd July 2011, 10:38 AM
The reports about deaths on islands have yet to be properly confirmed, it's a bit messy (to say the least). Numbers mostly based on eyewitness reports, which I believe are probably not completely accurate, due to the stress and chaos of the whole situation. I hope that these are understandable mistakes, and that there are less losses of life than what is being speculated about.

Shooter's been apprehended. Apparently nordic-looking features, tall and blonde.

Sideroxylon
22nd July 2011, 10:44 AM
To the Norwegians here, very sorry to hear this has happened to your country. Hope they capture all responsible.

MG1962
22nd July 2011, 10:45 AM
To the Norwegians here, very sorry to hear this has happened to your country. Hope they capture all responsible.

This!!!!

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 10:46 AM
Shooter's been apprehended. Apparently nordic-looking features, tall and blonde.

I see this reported in foreign media - male, 180cm, blond hair, white skin - but it has not been reported by Norwegian media yet.

ETA: Norwegian media now reports the same.

AdMan
22nd July 2011, 10:47 AM
To the Norwegians here, very sorry to hear this has happened to your country. Hope they capture all responsible.


I am half Norwegian, which is why I'm following this so closely. :(

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 11:01 AM
Police say they had a phone conversation with the shooter before he was apprehended, and that he spoke fluent Norwegian. Nothing is said about the content of the conversation.

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 11:19 AM
There are now unconfirmed reports of as many as 30 deaths at Utøya!

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n135/Ryokan76/Utya.jpg

It's a small island, and there were almost 600 people present. The shooter was armed with a pistol and some sort of rifle with a scope. It was a very target rich environment.

icerat
22nd July 2011, 11:26 AM
Yup, NRK reporting 20 to 30. :(

hope it's wrong

Jungle Jim
22nd July 2011, 11:27 AM
Prediction: it's a relatively simple oklahama type bomb, probably set by the gunman. He worked alone or with a small group. May or may not have anything to do with islamism.

Wow, you're good.

Sabretooth
22nd July 2011, 11:28 AM
Never understood how this wacko's think blowing something up or shooting is going to change anything for the better.

Condolences to all those effected by this nonsense. :(

The Nimble Pianist
22nd July 2011, 11:29 AM
Jihadist group claims responsibility. Awaiting confirmation:

A terror group, Ansar al-Jihad al-Alami, or the Helpers of the Global Jihad, issued a statement claiming responsibility for the attack, according to Will McCants, a terrorism analyst at C.N.A., a research institute that studies terrorism. The message said the attack was a response to Norwegian forces’ presence in Afghanistan and to unspecified insults to the Prophet Muhammad. “We have warned since the Stockholm raid of more operations,” the group said, according to Mr. McCants’ translation, apparently referred to a bombing in Sweden in December 2010. “What you see is only the beginning, and there is more to come.” The claim could not be confirmed.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/23/world/europe/23oslo.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2&hp

deadrose
22nd July 2011, 11:30 AM
To the Norwegians here, very sorry to hear this has happened to your country. Hope they capture all responsible.

Joining in with this sentiment.

Resume
22nd July 2011, 11:30 AM
Never understood how this wacko's think blowing something up or shooting is going to change anything for the better.

Condolences to all those effected by this nonsense. :(

My advise to these shooters has always been to shoot yourself first, then see how you feel.

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 11:31 AM
Helpers of the Global Jihad was mentioned on Norwegian media, but a terrorist expert said he had never heard of the organization.

icerat
22nd July 2011, 11:34 AM
Ok, tracked down the 20 to 30 .... original quote was shot or injured, not a death toll number


ETA:: second quote was from a witness saying he saw that many floating in the water. Not dead - trying to escape

think the two have been incorrectly combined into 30 dead. At least I hope so.

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 11:42 AM
Media reports that one witness saw at least 25-30 killed - and those were only the ones he saw.

Witnesses also says he shouted 'come here' to people, who thought he was a police officer, then killed them as they came up to him. Apparently, he told people 'this is only the beginning.'

Terrible fog of war over the whole situation. The vast majority of the people on the island were young teenagers, 14-18 years old. We can only hope the death toll is far lower than what is speculated on in the media now.

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 11:43 AM
http://www.dagbladet.no/2011/07/22/nyheter/innenriks/skyteepisode/utoya/17418837/

Picture here shows half a dozen dead at the shore on Utøya.. :(

AdMan
22nd July 2011, 11:44 AM
http://www.dagbladet.no/2011/07/22/nyheter/innenriks/skyteepisode/utoya/17418837/

Picture here shows half a dozen dead at the shore on Utøya.. :(


That is awful. :(

icerat
22nd July 2011, 11:45 AM
They could be kids just hiding.

AdMan
22nd July 2011, 11:45 AM
Google map showing where damage and injuries occurred in Oslo:

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=207568124589043682271.0004a8ab8a00aae7cbf7 6&msa=0

Delscottio
22nd July 2011, 11:48 AM
Everything I've heard so far is the gunman was extremely calm, collect and picked his target to do as much damage as possible unhindered. Grim stuff.

Hopefully the reports are incorrect and there has been fewer deaths.


p.s apologies for the fake vid before - didn't read the comments.

Wildy
22nd July 2011, 11:51 AM
They could be kids just hiding.

I honestly hope that this is the case.

bookitty
22nd July 2011, 11:57 AM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/jul/22/oslo-explosion-live-coverage#block-20

He says that the young people he talked to were hiding and dared not speak on the phone anymore for fear of being discovered by the perpetrator.

"Young people have to swim in panic, and it is far to the mainland from Utoya. Others are hiding. Those I spoke with did not want to talk more. They were terrified," he said to VG Nett.

600 people on the island, so many more at home waiting to hear.
There aren't a lot of good words for this sort of horror.

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 12:03 PM
Police says around 10 are killed at Utøya, but can't confirm yet as the situation is not yet under control.

Who would've thought earlier today that a situation would occur in Norway that would lead to more deaths than the bombing? :(

Undesired Walrus
22nd July 2011, 12:11 PM
Google map showing where damage and injuries occurred in Oslo:

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=207568124589043682271.0004a8ab8a00aae7cbf7 6&msa=0

Wow, how did you find that?

Delscottio
22nd July 2011, 12:12 PM
Something is puzzling me here, on the News they have just said that the former PM was at Utøya this morning and the current PM was due tomorrow - where was the security / special branch etc?

Undesired Walrus
22nd July 2011, 12:13 PM
No reports on the ethnicity of the shooter.

Tells us nothing these days.

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 12:16 PM
Something is puzzling me here, on the News they have just said that the former PM was at Utøya this morning and the current PM was due tomorrow - where was the security / special branch etc?

That's the thing, we Norwegians don't do that. We've always been proud of our open society, where the king can take hiking trips whenever he wants alone with his wife, and where ministers and top politicians can take their bicycle to work without security.

BBC has a good article about it:

Norway is an incredibly open society.

The Royal Family is free to move about with limited security, both in the nation's relatively small and peaceful cities, as well as on holiday in the mountains or on the coast.

The country's politicians and business leaders mix freely with ordinary people in a manner rarely seen elsewhere in the world.

Few people have secret addresses and telephone numbers - open the phonebook online and you will find links not only to aerial shots of people's houses and maps of where they live, but also details about their email addresses and their place of work.

This is a society where top politicians, business executives and other celebrities often include their private telephone numbers and home addresses on their business cards.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14256438

AdMan
22nd July 2011, 12:16 PM
Wow, how did you find that?


It was linked to from a blog on the New York Times site:

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/22/video-of-oslo-explosion-aftermath/

icerat
22nd July 2011, 12:17 PM
Something is puzzling me here, on the News they have just said that the former PM was at Utøya this morning and the current PM was due tomorrow - where was the security / special branch etc?

No confusion. It's Norway. Sweden had virtually no security for politicians until their PM was assassinated, and even after that a man successfully stabbed their foreign minister.

Greedo
22nd July 2011, 12:25 PM
Yup, NRK reporting 20 to 30. :(

hope it's wrong

Oh man... Just what was going on there? Was there no security at all?

To the Norwegians here, very sorry to hear this has happened to your country. Hope they capture all responsible.

same here.

NoahFence
22nd July 2011, 12:34 PM
This is a society where top politicians, business executives and other celebrities often include their private telephone numbers and home addresses on their business cards.

Sounds like my kind of place!

DC
22nd July 2011, 12:39 PM
i feel so sorry for the people especially the kids on the island.

AdMan
22nd July 2011, 12:42 PM
i feel so sorry for the people especially the kids on the island.


Yes--specifically targeting kids and young people was the worst part of it.

AdMan
22nd July 2011, 12:44 PM
Police are saying that 9 or 10 people were killed in the shooting.

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 12:45 PM
Media now reports that the man in a police uniform was observed in downtown Oslo before the bombs went off, in the same area as the bombing.

Wildy
22nd July 2011, 12:47 PM
Apparently police have said 9-10 people have died on Utoya.

Arcade22
22nd July 2011, 12:50 PM
Oh man... Just what was going on there? Was there no security at all?

It was apparently a camp for the labour party's youth wing. What kind of security do you expect to need for a bunch of teenage youths and young adults? Guards armed with assault rifles?

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 12:52 PM
To me it's starting to look like it was the same man behind both attacks. Witnesses report seeing him at the scene of the bombing just minutes before the explosion.

Could this be Norway's Timothy McVeigh?

AdMan
22nd July 2011, 12:54 PM
To me it's starting to look like it was the same man behind both attacks. Witnesses report seeing him at the scene of the bombing just minutes before the explosion.



It seems a bit strange, though. How are these witnesses recognizing the man? Has a picture of the shooter been released?

Leif Roar
22nd July 2011, 12:57 PM
Could this be Norway's Timothy McVeigh?

Possibly. Utøya would be an oddly local choice of target for an international terror group; it makes more sense as a target of domestic terrorism.

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 12:59 PM
It seems a bit strange, though. How are these witnesses recognizing the man? Has a picture of the shooter been released?

It's actually not that common to see a uniformed police man alone, and this one would be easy to notice because of his height - 190cm/6'3".

Witnesses say they saw a man fitting the description, wearing police clothes, enter a civilian beige car and leave the scene of the bombing two minutes before the explosion.

The police are now saying they believe the same man was behind both incidents, but won't say if they believe he acted alone. They confirm he was not a police officer.

Agatha
22nd July 2011, 01:00 PM
To the Norwegians here, very sorry to hear this has happened to your country. Hope they capture all responsible. This.

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 01:01 PM
Possibly. Utøya would be an oddly local choice of target for an international terror group; it makes more sense as a target of domestic terrorism.

That's exactly my thinking. A very strange target. The bombing I could understand, as it could be said it's in the middle of Norway's political power. But the Labour Party Youth's summer camp?

Right wing extremists have always said that the Labour Party is responsible for Norway 'being filled up' with 'criminal immigrants'. It's not unthinkable that one of these nuts are behind this.

Roadtoad
22nd July 2011, 01:03 PM
Still reading up on this. CNN has plenty of speculation, and the Times news article hasn't done a lot to dispel that. I'm hoping the death tolls are wrong.

AdMan
22nd July 2011, 01:07 PM
That's exactly my thinking. A very strange target. The bombing I could understand, as it could be said it's in the middle of Norway's political power. But the Labour Party Youth's summer camp?

Right wing extremists have always said that the Labour Party is responsible for Norway 'being filled up' with 'criminal immigrants'. It's not unthinkable that one of these nuts are behind this.


The speculations in the media I've been following (mostly non-Norwegian, due to my rather poor Norwegian) seem to have shifted toward domestic terrorism as perhaps more likely.

Leif Roar
22nd July 2011, 01:08 PM
That's exactly my thinking. A very strange target. The bombing I could understand, as it could say it's in the middle of Norway's political power. But the Labour Party Youth's summer camp?

If the main target was Utøya, that would explain the otherwise odd timing of the attack to after office hours in the holiday period.

Right wing extremists have always said that the Labour Party is responsible for Norway 'being filled up' with 'criminal immigrants'. It's not unthinkable that one of these nuts are behind this.

I don't think it's right to say "right wing" extremists, even hypothetically, at this point. If this is domestic, the extremism is going to be off the political chart, and not really related to the left/right axis.

DC
22nd July 2011, 01:08 PM
CNN international talked almost exlusively about al queda.

Leif Roar
22nd July 2011, 01:13 PM
CNN international talked almost exlusively about al queda.

It's possible. Judging by what we know now, the attack is similar to some attacks islamistic terror groups have comitted elsewhere. However, there are some details that seem odd if that is the case, but of course we're in the thick of the "Fog of Media" at the moment.

icerat
22nd July 2011, 01:17 PM
That's exactly my thinking. A very strange target. The bombing I could understand, as it could be said it's in the middle of Norway's political power. But the Labour Party Youth's summer camp?

Right wing extremists have always said that the Labour Party is responsible for Norway 'being filled up' with 'criminal immigrants'. It's not unthinkable that one of these nuts are behind this.

Didn't you say earlier when I suggested this -

The neo nazi milieu in Norway is extremely small compared to in Denmark and Sweden. Actually close to non-existent, and there has never been any significant problems with them in the past.

Or were you interpreting my "neo-nazi" description differently?

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 01:21 PM
Extremely small and close to non-existent doesn't mean non-existent.

I still doubt it's neo-nazis that are behind this, but wouldn't be surprised it it's someone we could call a right-wing extremist.

Right now it's anyone's guess - but since they have the man in custody, we'll hopefully soon know. The police are holding a press conference in around 10 minutes.

Kthulhut Fhtagn
22nd July 2011, 01:36 PM
Absolutely terrible, my heart goes out to the victims and their families.

OSLO, Norway — Twin terror attacks rocked Norway on Friday when a bomb wrecked government buildings in the capital, including the prime minister's office, and a gunman dressed as a police officer opened fire at an island youth camp.

Police said the two attacks were linked.

At least seven people were killed and others injured in the blast in the center of Oslo, NBC News reported. Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg was not in his building at the time of the explosion, which happened around 3:30 p.m. (9:30 a.m. EDT), Norwegian newspaper Aftenposten reported.

Separately, a man in a police uniform opened fire at a Labor Party youth camp on an island near Oslo, Norwegian media said. Investigators told local media they suspect a link between the shootings and the blast. Eyewitnesses told Norwegian broadcaster NRK perhaps 20 or more people had been killed on the island of Utoya. Police confirmed at least nine deaths on the island. Police said they have arrested one person after the shooting.

Source (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43854355/ns/world_news-europe/?GT1=43001)

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 01:38 PM
Thread here:
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=214863

icerat
22nd July 2011, 01:39 PM
Right, I was using the term "neo-nazi" as a generic right-wing extremist descriptive.

mikeyx
22nd July 2011, 01:40 PM
Jøsses, a friend of mine works in an office building in that area, what a day to chose to work from home :-O

that certainly sucks, my sympathies to Norway.

Kthulhut Fhtagn
22nd July 2011, 01:41 PM
Whoops, thank you for providing the link.

icerat
22nd July 2011, 01:47 PM
10 confirmed dead on the island
7 at the bomb site
still some unaccounted for

shooter was norwegian

The Mutha
22nd July 2011, 01:51 PM
To the Norwegians here, very sorry to hear this has happened to your country. Hope they capture all responsible.

This, most definitely this. I can't fathom what motivates anybody to even contemplate these sorts of terrorist attacks, much less actually carry them out.

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 01:52 PM
Police say they now lean towards this being domestic terrorism. They say they are well aware of the milieu the apprehended person belongs to - but won't give details.

We'll know soon enough, but I'm more and more sure this is a domestic right-wing terrorist.

AdMan
22nd July 2011, 01:54 PM
Very little insight on the possible motives or whether the man was acting alone provided so far at the press conference.

It's very early still, of course.

icerat
22nd July 2011, 02:11 PM
Getting sick of the "analysts" talking about how incredibly sophisticated etc etc the attack was - must have had training etc etc etc blah blah blah

Has everyone forgotten McVeigh already? What's sophisticated about a car bomb and then driving to an island and shooting people?

NoahFence
22nd July 2011, 02:13 PM
My thoughs go out to Norway. Just a terrible, terrible day.

Do you folks at least have barbaric punishments that can be levied on this turd?

Lisa Simpson
22nd July 2011, 02:15 PM
My thoughs go out to Norway. Just a terrible, terrible day.

Do you folks at least have barbaric punishments that can be levied on this turd?

I sincerely hope Norway is better than that.

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 02:16 PM
Getting sick of the "analysts" talking about how incredibly sophisticated etc etc the attack was - must have had training etc etc etc blah blah blah

Has everyone forgotten McVeigh already? What's sophisticated about a car bomb and then driving to an island and shooting people?

Don't forget that not only did he have the means and space to make this much explosives, but he also had a convincing police uniform and identification - as well as at least a pistol and a rifle, something that's not easy to get hold of in Norway.

Incredibly sophisticated? Nah, not necessarily. Well planned? Oh yes.

NoahFence
22nd July 2011, 02:21 PM
Nah, not necessarily. Well planned? Oh yes.

Part of me thinks he was trying to mitigate casualties, this being a slow day in the area. But then he goes to the island? I mean, wow. What goes thru these people's heads is beyond me.

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 02:21 PM
Police press conference now:

Undetonated explosives found on Utøya.

Police confirms 10 dead on Utøya, but they expect the number to rise as they search the island.

They won't say anything about the suspect.

icerat
22nd July 2011, 02:47 PM
Don't forget that not only did he have the means and space to make this much explosives

So did McVeigh and Nichols (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing#Building_the_bomb)

but he also had a convincing police uniform and identification

Not hard to be too convincing. I've gotten in to concerts with an official looking tracksuit top and quickly flashing my wallet as an ID. There are reports he was actually dressed as a guard rather than police.

as well as at least a pistol and a rifle, something that's not easy to get hold of in Norway.

Say what? Since when? Last stats I saw said one in three Norwegian households have guns. Hunting is very popular throughout Scandinivia. If it's hard in Norway he can pick some up when he's driving to Sweden to buy cheap(er) booze.

Incredibly sophisticated? Nah, not necessarily. Well planned? Oh yes.

Yes, requires planning.

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 02:48 PM
Man confirmed as being a 32 year old ethnic Norwegian.

Someone dug up this 10 year old article:

http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/article231455.ece

For those that don't understand Norwegian, the article is about a 23 year old Norwegian neo-nazi caught with firearms, explosives and police uniforms. Formerly, he had been arrested for weapon smuggling and violence against anti-racists. The age fits perfectly.

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 02:50 PM
Say what? Since when? Last stats I saw said one in three Norwegian households have guns. Hunting is very popular throughout Scandinivia. If it's hard in Norway he can pick some up when he's driving to Sweden to buy cheap(er) booze.

Hunting rifles are common, but that's not what this guy was wielding.

Anyway, it's now looking like the guy was an actual neo-nazi, so looks like you were right.

icerat
22nd July 2011, 02:52 PM
hmmm ... wonder how long he was imprisoned for and when he got released ....

ETA: semi-automatics are legal in Norway I believe. Doesn't sound like legality would have concerned this guy anyway

Captain Obvious
22nd July 2011, 03:08 PM
Ryokan, when I first saw this I thought of you ;)

HoverBoarder
22nd July 2011, 03:09 PM
"Global Jihad" group says it's behind Oslo blast (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20082156-10391695.html)

A group called "Helpers of Global Jihad" has taken responsibility for the bomb which ripped open buildings, including the prime minister's office, in Norway's capital, CBS News has learned.

It is apparently the same local shadowy extremist group that the Stockholm bomber in December 2010 had said he was connected to.

icerat
22nd July 2011, 03:17 PM
they lied

HoverBoarder
22nd July 2011, 03:19 PM
they lied

Alleged Oslo Terrorists Claim Responsibility Via Jihadi Forums, YouTube (http://www.fastcompany.com/1768726/oslo-terrorists-allegedly-claim-responsibility-via-jihadi-forums-youtube)

A terrorists group has claimed responsibility for today's attacks in Oslo, Norway--which included the bombing of the Prime Minister's office and a massacre at a children's day camp by a gunman dressed as a police officer--using social media.

An obscure group called Ansar al-Jihad al-Alami (Assistants of the Global Jihad) posted a message on an Islamist bulletin board called Smukh and may have uploaded a video to YouTube several days ago predicting the attack, in which at least seven people were killed.

Ansar al-Jihad's Abu Sulayman al-Nasir allegedly posted a message claiming responsibility for the Oslo attacks on the Arabic-language jihadist forum Shamikh. According to a partial translation by terrorism expert Will McCants of Jihadica, al-Nasir claims the attacks were in retribution for the occupation of Afghanistan by foreign troops and unnamed insults to the Muslim prophet Muhammad. Al-Nasir also threatens further attacks:

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 03:20 PM
It's not uncommon for such groups to take responsibility for attacks like these. Happens almost every time.

It's now pretty certain that the attacks were done by an ethnic Norwegian with extreme right-wing ideals.

Safe-Keeper
22nd July 2011, 03:21 PM
They've decided they weren't behind the attack after all and withdrawn their claim of responsibility.

HoverBoarder
22nd July 2011, 03:24 PM
It's not uncommon for such groups to take responsibility for attacks like these. Happens almost every time.

Sure, I am not saying that is not a possibility, but so far that is the information we have. If they uploaded a video predicting the attack several days ago though, than they would have either had to have been working with the people who carried out the attack or had prior knowledge of those in Norway who did carry out the attack.

William Parcher
22nd July 2011, 03:25 PM
Scary for people on that island who were shot at and escaped from the fake policeman. When the real police show up they might run and hide from them.

icerat
22nd July 2011, 03:26 PM
If they uploaded a video predicting the attack several days ago though, than they would have either had to have been working with the people who carried out the attack or had prior knowledge of those in Norway who did carry out the attack.

Sure. If. And if I had predicted it I'd be applying for a million bucks.

scissorhands
22nd July 2011, 03:26 PM
They've decided they weren't behind the attack after all and withdrawn their claim of responsibility.

So they just wished they were.
Oh well, maybe next time.

icerat
22nd July 2011, 03:27 PM
Scary for people on that island who were shot at and escaped from the fake policeman. When the real police show up they might run and hide from them.

I feel sorry for the guy working at the ferry dock who apparently called the ferry over for him.

probably feeling guilty as hell, poor fella.

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 03:29 PM
So they just wished they were.
Oh well, maybe next time.

Several Islamic groups cheered the attacks earlier today.

Must be ironic to find out the perpetrator most likely did it to protest people like them.

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 03:31 PM
Media reports wounded people are still being transported from Utøya to Oslo University Hospital - and that the hospital has been warned that more will come.

Police are now searching the perpetrator's home.

HoverBoarder
22nd July 2011, 03:31 PM
They've decided they weren't behind the attack after all and withdrawn their claim of responsibility.

Do you have a link to that?

Jungle Jim
22nd July 2011, 03:32 PM
Several Islamic groups cheered the attacks earlier today.

Must be ironic to find out the perpetrator most likely did it to protest people like them.

I don't think they get irony.

Eddie Dane
22nd July 2011, 03:35 PM
Sick.

Could it really be just one guy with a van full of fertilizer and a couple of guns?
On the one hand it would be nice if there was no organisation sharing this guy's ideals.
On the other hand, it means one nut can do a lot of damage, and he will inspire others.

William Parcher
22nd July 2011, 03:36 PM
It's a horrible tragedy. But there may be some relief if it really was a lone nutjob.

HoverBoarder
22nd July 2011, 03:37 PM
Do you have a link to that?

Never mind, I found the story you were talking about

leftysergeant
22nd July 2011, 03:41 PM
It could be that even a miniscule neo-Nazi movement might use somethng like this as a trick to recruit useful idiots. Certainly, it could be used to start an anti-immigrant or anti-Muslim pogrom.Then the Aryan wankers step in to claim that government is not doing enough to defend white, Christian Norway from the Moor.

A variation on the Turner Diaries strategy.

The car bombs look more like white nationalist tactics than Jihadist. No suicide attacks.

The Muslim extremists have apparently learned from WTC 93 and Times Square that you can't just park a bomb and walk away like the white nationalists do. You got to baby-sit that sucker until the timing is right or just march in and blow it and yourself up.

scissorhands
22nd July 2011, 03:46 PM
It could be that even a miniscule neo-Nazi movement might use somethng like this as a trick to recruit useful idiots. Certainly, it could be used to start an anti-immigrant or anti-Muslim pogrom.Then the Aryan wankers step in to claim that government is not doing enough to defend white, Christian Norway from the Moor.


But then again, if you want the blame to fall on muslim extremists you dont generally march around as an identifiable white norwegian person shooting up a kids camp.

leftysergeant
22nd July 2011, 03:48 PM
Police say they now lean towards this being domestic terrorism. They say they are well aware of the milieu the apprehended person belongs to - but won't give details.

We'll know soon enough, but I'm more and more sure this is a domestic right-wing terrorist.

Can we read that as anti-immigrant/anti-Muslim?

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 03:48 PM
Can we read that as anti-immigrant/anti-Muslim?

Yes.. And anti-socialist, which probably explains shooting up a summer camp for young social democrats.

Safe-Keeper
22nd July 2011, 03:49 PM
It could be that even a miniscule neo-Nazi movement might use somethng like this as a trick to recruit useful idiots. Certainly, it could be used to start an anti-immigrant or anti-Muslim pogrom.Then the Aryan wankers step in to claim that government is not doing enough to defend white, Christian Norway from the Moor.
The first thing that went through everyones' heads after the explosions was, naturally, Muslim terorrists. What's interesting is that if this really is the work of a Neo-Nazi, it will probably cause a huge backlash against everything "racist", which in turn will probably have effects on the feelings towards Muslims in the country.

leftysergeant
22nd July 2011, 03:50 PM
But then again, if you want the blame to fall on muslim extremists you dont generally march around as an identifiable white norwegian person shooting up a kids camp.Maybe he wasn't figuring on being caught, or witnesses to be able to get a make on him.

These sort are usually not as bright as they think themselves.

AdMan
22nd July 2011, 03:50 PM
I can't see how any sane person would think a brutal attack like that would appeal to anyone.

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 03:51 PM
The first thing that went through everyones' heads after the explosions was, naturally, Muslim terorrists. What's interesting is that if this really is the work of a Neo-Nazi, it will probably cause a huge backlash against everything "racist", which in turn will probably have effects on the feelings towards Muslims in the country.

I hope all those 'friends' of mine who posted anti-Muslim crap on facebook earlier today feel very ashamed.

icerat
22nd July 2011, 03:56 PM
Apparently a popular "Norway's got talent" competitor, Ismael Brown, was one of those killed on the island :(

WildCat
22nd July 2011, 03:58 PM
I see this reported in foreign media - male, 180cm, blond hair, white skin - but it has not been reported by Norwegian media yet.

ETA: Norwegian media now reports the same.

Police say they had a phone conversation with the shooter before he was apprehended, and that he spoke fluent Norwegian. Nothing is said about the content of the conversation.
Prison convert?

Leif Roar
22nd July 2011, 04:02 PM
I hope all those 'friends' of mine who posted anti-Muslim crap on facebook earlier today feel very ashamed.

I have to say, though, that on that point I was quite impressed by the Norwegian media's handling of the situation. While islamic terrorist organisations were mentioned as a possible, even likely culprit, none (that I saw) jumped the gun on that to start assigning blame.

scissorhands
22nd July 2011, 04:02 PM
I hope all those 'friends' of mine who posted anti-Muslim crap on facebook earlier today feel very ashamed.

Dont be so hard on them.
Its hardly as if that wasnt the most likely group to be suspects.
Its quite rare for any terrorist act to NOT be carried out by Islamic extremists these days, they have a monopoly on terror.
Although there are exceptions.

Tsukasa Buddha
22nd July 2011, 04:03 PM
Horrible. Hopefully he was working alone and the violence stops.

ProBonoShill
22nd July 2011, 04:03 PM
This is so sad, my heart goes out to all Norwegians.


I never thought something like this would happen in what seems to be such a nice, peaceful place, but I guess evil things can happen anywhere. :(

AdMan
22nd July 2011, 04:03 PM
I hope all those 'friends' of mine who posted anti-Muslim crap on facebook earlier today feel very ashamed.


Seconded.

DC
22nd July 2011, 04:05 PM
Dont be so hard on them.
Its hardly as if that wasnt the most likely group to be suspects.
Its quite rare for any terrorist act to NOT be carried out by Islamic extremists these days, they have a monopoly on terror.
Although there are exceptions.

No they dont, surely not in Europe. you should take a look at statistics.

AdMan
22nd July 2011, 04:05 PM
I have to say, though, that on that point I was quite impressed by the Norwegian media's handling of the situation. While islamic terrorist organisations were mentioned as a possible, even likely culprit, none (that I saw) jumped the gun on that to start assigning blame.


IMO, the English language media that I was following (BBC, CNN, NYT...) seemed ready to jump to conclusions more readily.

Leif Roar
22nd July 2011, 04:06 PM
Prison convert?

No. That's more a unique American phenomena.

WildCat
22nd July 2011, 04:08 PM
No. That's more a unique American phenomena.
Richard Reid (the "shoe bomber")... converted in a British prison.

Arcade22
22nd July 2011, 04:09 PM
It's very strange for a neo-nazi to put Winston Churchill, a man who was instrumental in the destruction of The Third Reich, as one of his idols on Facebook...

Undesired Walrus
22nd July 2011, 04:09 PM
I don't think they get irony.

What, are they American?

leftysergeant
22nd July 2011, 04:10 PM
Its quite rare for any terrorist act to NOT be carried out by Islamic extremists these days, they have a monopoly on terror.
Although there are exceptions.

Around here, it's the Aryan wankers.

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 04:10 PM
The man has been identified, although not officially.

http://www.tv2.no/nyheter/innenriks/politiaksjon-hos-paagrepet-mann-32-i-oslo-3544610.html

Look at the censored picture.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002651290254&sk=wall

The facebook profile picture is identical.

The TV2 link says that sources say he's a member of the extreme right-wing milieu of Norway, and that he's the legal owner of an 'automated weapon' and a Glock. The shooter at Utøya supposedly carried a Glock - although this is a popular pistol in most parts of the world.

icerat
22nd July 2011, 04:10 PM
IMO, the English language media that I was following (BBC, CNN, NYT...) seemed ready to jump to conclusions more readily.

Even after the Oslo Mayor has told them "it looks like domestic terrorism" and the police have said it's likely to do with domestic politics, these damn international media persist on promoting the "islamist" thread. Just heard CNN "expert" hypothesizing he might have been a local recruited by Al Qaeda.

AAArrrrggghhhhhhhh

a_unique_person
22nd July 2011, 04:10 PM
Richard Reid (the "shoe bomber")... converted in a British prison.

There are also converts to Nazism, drugs and a life of crime. Let's just wait and see what the evidence is. It's there, and it's only a matter of time till it's all revealed.

WildCat
22nd July 2011, 04:11 PM
The TV2 link says that sources say he's a member of the extreme right-wing milieu of Norway, and that he's the legal owner of an 'automated weapon' and a Glock. The shooter at Utøya supposedly carried a Glock - although this is a popular pistol in most parts of the world.
I thought you said it was hard to get guns in Norway?

scissorhands
22nd July 2011, 04:11 PM
No they dont, surely not in Europe. you should take a look at statistics.


You should tell that to the anti terrorist agencies in the UK, that have investigated and stopped dozens of plots involving Islamic terror groups over the last 10 years.

leftysergeant
22nd July 2011, 04:11 PM
No. That's more a unique American phenomena.Whites in America do not generally convert to Islam. They usually join the Aryan Brotherhood.

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 04:13 PM
It's very strange for a neo-nazi to put Winston Churchill, a man who was instrumental in the destruction of The Third Reich, as one of his idols on Facebook...

He also has Max Manus as one of his idols, the most famous Norwegian war hero - who fought against the nazis. But these guys probably see themselves as our generation's Max Manuses, fighting an insidious foreign enemy.

leftysergeant
22nd July 2011, 04:15 PM
I'm almost tempted to turn on the radio to hear what Fox Goons is saying about it, but I am afraid the vitriol would make my ears bleed.

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 04:15 PM
I thought you said it was hard to get guns in Norway?

Hard, but not impossible.

leftysergeant
22nd July 2011, 04:16 PM
He also has Max Manus as one of his idols, the most famous Norwegian war hero - who fought against the nazis. But these guys probably see themselves as our generation's Max Manuses, fighting an insidious foreign enemy.Nothing succedes like success.

DC
22nd July 2011, 04:17 PM
You should tell that to the anti terrorist agencies in the UK, that have investigated and stopped dozens of plots involving Islamic terror groups over the last 10 years.

you are wrong, but this is not the place for it. so whatever.

Arcade22
22nd July 2011, 04:17 PM
I thought you said it was hard to get guns in Norway?

If the gun laws in Norway are anything like those in Sweden then it's pretty easy to become a member of a gun club and start sport shooting as a hobby. After a while and after some tests can be allowed to bring your own gun from the gun club (they normally have to be locked up there) and keep them securely in a gun safe at home.

Safe-Keeper
22nd July 2011, 04:17 PM
The man arrested is apparently an Anders Behring Breivik. He has an open Facebook site, recently created, with 0 friends and some pictures of himself as well as one with him and what I presume to be his wife and mother or grandmother. He lists himself as a Conservative Christian, and has some random "like" items. His only entries on the page are about a dozen YouTube music videos.

His page lists him as the director of a "geofarm" company. He might be its sole employee.

His "anti-fan page" is at about 1000 members, and growing by several members a second.

ETA: No income, but apparently quite a bit of money put aside. (http://skattelister.no/skatt/profil/anders-behring-breivik-33747942/)

WildCat
22nd July 2011, 04:17 PM
Hard, but not impossible.
If a known right-wing extremist with a criminal record can get them, what makes it hard?

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 04:18 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2017851/Named-The-blond-Norwegian-32-arrested-holiday-island-massacre-linked-Oslo-bomb-blasts.html

Here's the guy.

Arcade22
22nd July 2011, 04:18 PM
He is also apparently a Freemason. Just wait until the paranoids pick that one up...

A Laughing Baby
22nd July 2011, 04:21 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2017851/Named-The-blond-Norwegian-32-arrested-holiday-island-massacre-linked-Oslo-bomb-blasts.html

Here's the guy.

That article spends like 60% of its content talking about Islam-inspired terror. It almost gets the air of like "yeah, well, they do it more!"

Leif Roar
22nd July 2011, 04:21 PM
Hard, but not impossible.

It's not really hard either -- it just takes some time and effort. If you join a pistol club and shoot (with club weapons) for a year, you can apply for a handgun license, which would normally be granted less any serious black marks on your record.

ETA: Anyway, this is hardly the time or place to segue into a gun control thread, so let's leave it at that, can we?

A'isha
22nd July 2011, 04:24 PM
That article spends like 60% of its content talking about Islam-inspired terror. It almost gets the air of like "yeah, well, they do it more!"

It's the Daily Mail. That's their schtick.

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 04:25 PM
That article spends like 60% of its content talking about Islam-inspired terror. It almost gets the air of like "yeah, well, they do it more!"

I think the Daily Mail has a history of things like that..

There's also a Swedish website - http://politisktinkorrekt.info/ - an anti-Islam website that was one of the first to cover the bombing with lots of rants against Islam, but now are like 'yeah, huh, they report the perpetrator as Nordic! I thought we weren't supposed to report on race in these politically correct times!' Funny enough, their website translates to 'politically incorrect' in English. I bet they're feeling a bit stupid right now.

Safe-Keeper
22nd July 2011, 04:25 PM
Feel sorry for the two other people pictured on his FB page, lots of people are bound to recognize them... if he created the FB page in preparation for the attacks, that's a rather cruel/senseless thing to do...

He also has Max Manus as one of his idols, the most famous Norwegian war hero - who fought against the nazis. But these guys probably see themselves as our generation's Max Manuses, fighting an insidious foreign enemy. Actually, one of the first things that came to my mind when I heard of the attack was the scene in Max Manus where they bomb the state archives.
mJIxNZjkYRA
(in the movie, for those of you who don't understand Norwegian, they bomb the archives to keep young Norsemen from being drafted to war on the western front).

whatthebutlersaw
22nd July 2011, 04:28 PM
Could the Islamophobes please stop trying to desperately shoehorn their own brand of reality on this tragedy? There seems very little reason to doubt the Norwegian police has apprehended the correct person. This is not the US and if Ryokan et al. say that the target makes it more likely the shooter has extremist right wing affiliations, then they are probably correct. Anyone who is familiar with the Scandinavian situation can tell you that.

This is not about you and your predjudices, but about the victims and their families. Show some respect for them - they are people and not anvils for you to drop.

I am so sorry this happened. It is shocking that someone would let their hatred target young people and children. If these party political youth organizations are anything like Sweden this will have been more like summer camp than anything else and the thought of having that ripped apart by violence is horrible. Our thoughts are with you, so very much.

It doesn't help of course, but we have no other way of showing that we grieve with you:

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo189/lundbomj/011.jpg

One candle for every victim that we knew of at the time of lighting them.

I trust that the brave and resilient Norwegian people can stand together in repelling this attempt at sowing hatred.

ETA:

There's also a Swedish website - http://politisktinkorrekt.info/ - an anti-Islam website that was one of the first to cover the bombing with lots of rants against Islam, but now are like 'yeah, huh, they report the perpetrator as Nordic! I thought we weren't supposed to report on race in these politically correct times!' Funny enough, their website translates to 'politically incorrect' in English. I bet they're feeling a bit stupid right now.

I know. Idiots. They are incredibly vocal, unfortunately. They can turn almost any article with an open comment track into a discussion about Islam or immigration... *sigh* You know, it's almost like none of them have jobs but spend their days trawling news sites for discussions to derail.

Arcade22
22nd July 2011, 04:28 PM
If there was any lingering doubt in anyones mind:

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/4351/killerf.jpg

http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/5751/belief.png

Giz
22nd July 2011, 04:29 PM
Feel sorry for the two other people pictured on his FB page, lots of people are bound to recognize them... if he created the FB page in preparation for the attacks, that's a rather cruel/senseless thing to do...

Yeah, but he doesn't exactly seem to have a problem with cruel/senseless acts.

leftysergeant
22nd July 2011, 04:30 PM
I visited the Fox Goons website. The only mention of a motive was John Bolton blaming Muslims.(Whadda sooprize!)

AdMan
22nd July 2011, 04:34 PM
I visited the Fox Goons website. The only mention of a motive was John Bolton blaming Muslims.(Whadda sooprize!)


UGH

Idiots.

William Parcher
22nd July 2011, 04:34 PM
Must have been a tense capture too. He would have been thought likely to go out blazing, or to have an explosive vest. I wonder if they made him strip naked or something.

Safe-Keeper
22nd July 2011, 04:35 PM
I hope all those 'friends' of mine who posted anti-Muslim crap on facebook earlier today feel very ashamed. Had a friend who posted something like "this is what happens when we let this kind of people into our country"... she has deleted that post now.

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 04:36 PM
I visited the Fox Goons website. The only mention of a motive was John Bolton blaming Muslims.(Whadda sooprize!)

No ties to Islamic terrorists, says Fox News.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/07/22/norway-attacks-reportedly-by-one-man-no-ties-to-islamist-terrorism/

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 04:37 PM
Must have been a tense capture too. He would have been thought likely to go out blazing, or to have an explosive vest. I wonder if they made him strip naked or something.

Police confirms that undetonated explosives were found on the island, and in his car. That might have been his idea. Maybe. Or he was a coward just out after fame. It didn't take long from police landed on the island until he was in custody, unhurt.

ETA: Both his Facebook profile and his Twitter account were newly created. So that people would have something to look at after his actions? As I said, sounding like a fame seeker.

AdMan
22nd July 2011, 04:37 PM
http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/5751/belief.png


If that's real, sounds like he may have been working alone, or at least wanted to convey that impression.

Safe-Keeper
22nd July 2011, 04:41 PM
http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/artikkel.php?artid=10080610

A "Nationalist", according to himself.

scissorhands
22nd July 2011, 04:41 PM
Had a friend who posted something like "this is what happens when we let this kind of people into our country"... she has deleted that post now.

Its certainly a result of it.
Whatever you think about immigration,you can guarantee that some others dont share the same view.

leftysergeant
22nd July 2011, 04:42 PM
No ties to Islamic terrorists, says Fox News.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/07/22/norway-attacks-reportedly-by-one-man-no-ties-to-islamist-terrorism/Took them a while, didn't it?

They have just about always assumed that each incident was Muslim-lead, at least since OKC.

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 04:44 PM
http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/artikkel.php?artid=10080610

A "Nationalist", according to himself.

Article also says he was unknown to the police, so he's not the neo-nazi in the ten year old article linked earlier - which explains how he was able to get a gun permit. The only thing on his record is a minor traffic misdemeanor from over ten years ago.

He's from the more affluent area in Oslo, something his Facebook profile pictures also gives you the impression of.

scissorhands
22nd July 2011, 04:46 PM
Took them a while, didn't it?



About as long as it took to find out the facts.
Did you find out the facts sooner?:rolleyes:

WildCat
22nd July 2011, 04:48 PM
Article also says he was unknown to the police, so he's not the neo-nazi in the ten year old article linked earlier - which explains how he was able to get a gun permit.
OK. I thought it was the same guy.

icerat
22nd July 2011, 04:50 PM
Wiki article on him also says he's a self-described christian, which is ironic given the international medias islamists obsession

ETA: A freemason in fact (http://www.tv2.no/nyheter/prosjekt/frimurer/losjer/soilene/medlem/80189).

AdMan
22nd July 2011, 04:51 PM
He is also apparently a Freemason. Just wait until the paranoids pick that one up...


What kind of attire is this (http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/07/23/article-2017709-0D1F33FB00000578-704_306x512.jpg)? Looks vaguely Freemasony but I'm no expert.

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 04:52 PM
Wiki article on him (yup there already, shouldn't be according to wiki rules) also says he's a self-described christian, which is ironic given the international medias islamists obsession

On Facebook he identifies as a Conservative Christian.

icerat
22nd July 2011, 04:55 PM
Already a facebook hate page (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Anders-Behring-Breivik/136519726432720)

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 05:00 PM
Apparently, he ran a farming business - which explains how he got his hands on a huge amount of fertilizers to make the explosives.

DC
22nd July 2011, 05:00 PM
Already a facebook hate page (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Anders-Behring-Breivik/136519726432720)

ah from islamaphobia it went over to homophobia. :(

bookitty
22nd July 2011, 05:01 PM
Could the Islamophobes please stop trying to desperately shoehorn their own brand of reality on this tragedy? There seems very little reason to doubt the Norwegian police has apprehended the correct person. This is not the US and if Ryokan et al. say that the target makes it more likely the shooter has extremist right wing affiliations, then they are probably correct. Anyone who is familiar with the Scandinavian situation can tell you that.

This is not about you and your predjudices, but about the victims and their families. Show some respect for them - they are people and not anvils for you to drop.

I am so sorry this happened. It is shocking that someone would let their hatred target young people and children. If these party political youth organizations are anything like Sweden this will have been more like summer camp than anything else and the thought of having that ripped apart by violence is horrible. Our thoughts are with you, so very much.

It doesn't help of course, but we have no other way of showing that we grieve with you:

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo189/lundbomj/011.jpg

One candle for every victim that we knew of at the time of lighting them.

I trust that the brave and resilient Norwegian people can stand together in repelling this attempt at sowing hatred.

ETA:



I know. Idiots. They are incredibly vocal, unfortunately. They can turn almost any article with an open comment track into a discussion about Islam or immigration... *sigh* You know, it's almost like none of them have jobs but spend their days trawling news sites for discussions to derail.

Thank you. Your sanity and empathy are greatly appreciated.

leftysergeant
22nd July 2011, 05:23 PM
About as long as it took to find out the facts.
Did you find out the facts sooner?:rolleyes:At least an hour earlier.

Safe-Keeper
22nd July 2011, 05:35 PM
Thank you. Your sanity and empathy are greatly appreciated. Indeed.

icerat
22nd July 2011, 05:36 PM
just saw this comment on a news website (http://www.boingboing.net/2011/07/22/oslo-bombing-big-pho.html?dlvrit=36761) -

This is making the rounds on FB and G+ among Norwegians at the moment:
G.W. Bush, 9/11: "We're gonna hunt you down."
Stoltenberg, 22/7: "We will retaliate with more democracy".
I'm proud to be Norwegian

leftysergeant
22nd July 2011, 05:42 PM
When a democracy goes draconian, the terrorists win.

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 05:42 PM
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/search?q=Conservatism

His WoW character.. :)

AdMan
22nd July 2011, 05:44 PM
This is making the rounds on FB and G+ among Norwegians at the moment:
G.W. Bush, 9/11: "We're gonna hunt you down."
Stoltenberg, 22/7: "We will retaliate with more democracy".
I'm proud to be Norwegian


:) :thumbsup:

Safe-Keeper
22nd July 2011, 05:46 PM
Anyone know if Storberget's speech is on YouTube somewhere? The one about how we could not be "bombed to silence" and that we will still be Norway, spreading democracy and helping people, regardless of what people did to us? It was so awesome.

Never mind, it was Stoltenberg who said that in his speech. :)

icerat
22nd July 2011, 05:58 PM
Just saw an interview with a guy who was boating in the area and repeatedly went to the island to help kids get away, even after he realised what was going on.

Kasper Ilaug (http://www.facebook.com/ilaug), you're a true hero.

Safe-Keeper
22nd July 2011, 06:33 PM
Anyone remember this? Seems fitting for the occasion.
fbQZdv7G1xM

Skeptic Ginger
22nd July 2011, 06:38 PM
Indeed.

So speaking of a lack of sanity, if this was one guy with a political grudge fantasy, is there a big issue in Norway like there is here with right wing extremists who blame the government for everything wrong in their lives? Or is this more likely just a single guy off his rocker who blames the government for all his troubles like our occasional mass shooter that goes on a rampage at his worksite or the local McDonald's? Or was this none of the above?

If you know that is and/or if you'd care to comment.


BTW, I'm really sad for your fellow country-persons. It's too bad there are people like this guy in the world.

Safe-Keeper
22nd July 2011, 06:43 PM
There... aren't that many right-wing extremists in Norway. Neo-Nazis and similar groups are virtually never in the news these days. Remember, this was possibly just a single guy, acting all on his own.

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 06:45 PM
The right wing anti-immigration nuts are few, but very very vocal. This guy is reported to be very active on the comment fields on internet newspapers, which very often are filled with these kinds of guys making every issue into an immigration/Muslim issue (ETA: And rants against the red-green coalition).

But I don't think anyone in their wildest imaginations would believe one of them would be capable of something like this.

icerat
22nd July 2011, 06:57 PM
Oh god .... NRK and Reuters are reporting at least 80 dead on the island (http://nrk.no/) .... hope it's wrong

deadrose
22nd July 2011, 06:59 PM
I'm seeing it confirmed by other newsfeeds - how terrible!

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 06:59 PM
Oh... my... GOD!

AdMan
22nd July 2011, 07:00 PM
Oh god .... NRK and Reuters are reporting at least 80 dead on the island (http://nrk.no/) .... hope it's wrong


I just saw that.

Terrible, terrible news if it is accurate. :(

icerat
22nd July 2011, 07:01 PM
confirmed .... almost all children .... tears flowing here .....

Safe-Keeper
22nd July 2011, 07:02 PM
I first saw that on Face and my first reaction was anger at what I thought was idiots spreading false rumours. Then I actually found confirmation in some newspaper. It's just... words fail me. He dressed up as a cop, gathered the youths who thought he was there to protect them, and then just... massacred them in cold blood.

It's so unbelievable it's just hard to fathom. All this time we've worried we might come under attack by terrorist cells... then some random domestic nutcase kills nearly a hundred all by himself.

One man.

One man.

bookitty
22nd July 2011, 07:02 PM
confirmed .... almost all children .... tears flowing here .....

Oh dear god. No.

icerat
22nd July 2011, 07:07 PM
So many norwegians are going to wake to this news in a few hours .... so sad ....

Safe-Keeper
22nd July 2011, 07:08 PM
Mhm... will be just like the first shock, all over again:(.

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 07:09 PM
The police warned us the death toll would rise, but not even in my wildest imagination did I ithink it would rise this high. This is just horrible. What a horrible situation... :(

Safe-Keeper
22nd July 2011, 07:13 PM
Reason I thought it was a joke at first was that initial reports said there were roughly 20 youths on the island.

Arcade22
22nd July 2011, 07:14 PM
A facebook profile and twitter account tailored perfectly to market himself for everyone to see. His face plastered all over the world on the internet, TV, newspapers. Countless of people thinking about him, creating 'hate groups' on facebook...

I think this guy got what he was after. He won.

AdMan
22nd July 2011, 07:16 PM
This is so much worse than anyone could have imagined just a short time ago.

What an awful, senseless tragedy.

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 07:19 PM
Police warns that the death toll will probably rise even more, as they haven't searched the entire island yet... :(

gumboot
22nd July 2011, 07:23 PM
If that toll is accurate this is the worst killing spree in history, at least according to Wikipedia's lists.

:(

I really hope it's a mistake, though it doesn't sound like it is.

gumboot
22nd July 2011, 07:24 PM
Does anyone think the bombing might have been nothing more than a decoy to draw attention away? Surely a native Norwegian would have known it wasn't a good time to conduct the bombing. Sounds like the island was the real target.

bookitty
22nd July 2011, 07:24 PM
Police warns that the death toll will probably rise even more, as they haven't searched the entire island yet... :(

Those parents...still waiting. oh god.

icerat
22nd July 2011, 07:25 PM
I feel driving over and just hugging anyone I see ..... this makes this ***hole the #1 worst individual mass murderer

The Mutha
22nd July 2011, 07:26 PM
So sorry. No words can convey how tragic these events are. So many parents have lost their children to a completely senseless act by a lunatic.

Safe-Keeper
22nd July 2011, 07:26 PM
A facebook profile and twitter account tailored perfectly to market himself for everyone to see. His face plastered all over the world on the internet, TV, newspapers. Countless of people thinking about him, creating 'hate groups' on facebook...

I think this guy got what he was after. He won. Yeah. Only hope it won't lead to too many copycats. I'm no expert in any way, and I hope I'm wrong, but I'm seriously afraid that more attacks are inevitable. Just like with that string of shootings in the US where people went berserk with guns in part to get their names in the news. I only hope they won't pick Norwegian targets. Selfish, I know. But we have enough on our hands right now.

There will be many flags flown on half staff tomorrow. Many Norsemen with flags and paper clips (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_clip#National_symbol).

tyr_13
22nd July 2011, 07:26 PM
This is horrible. We need to be on guard for these kinds of cowards, but crazy will always find a way to break our hearts.

Don't let crazy win.

AdMan
22nd July 2011, 07:27 PM
Does anyone think the bombing might have been nothing more than a decoy to draw attention away? Surely a native Norwegian would have known it wasn't a good time to conduct the bombing. Sounds like the island was the real target.


I think you may be right. Looks like he was targeting the kids. :(

bookitty
22nd July 2011, 07:31 PM
I feel driving over and just hugging anyone I see ..... this makes this ***hole the #1 worst individual mass murderer

I called my niece. Stayed chipper because why bum her out? One of these days, I'll have to let her know how good it was just to hear her voice.

Safe-Keeper
22nd July 2011, 07:33 PM
He may not have acted alone. Latest is he is reported to have talked into a headset during the shooting.

Does anyone think the bombing might have been nothing more than a decoy to draw attention away? Surely a native Norwegian would have known it wasn't a good time to conduct the bombing. Sounds like the island was the real target. Only good thing about this mess is we have the swine in custody, and the cops are probably highly determined to make him spill all the beans he can spill. We'll probably know everything there is to know about motives and methodology in due time.

I suppose he chose to act the day before the PM's visit because security would have been significantly heightened while he was there?

HoverBoarder
22nd July 2011, 07:41 PM
This is just terrible... My heart goes out to all the families :(

icerat
22nd July 2011, 07:42 PM
He may not have acted alone. Latest is he is reported to have talked into a headset during the shooting.

probably talking to the voices in his head ..... :(

Puppycow
22nd July 2011, 08:20 PM
Oh god .... NRK and Reuters are reporting at least 80 dead on the island (http://nrk.no/) .... hope it's wrong

I'm so sorry to hear that. :(

So at least 87 dead including in Oslo. :(

NY Times has the same figures.

Just one man?

The Nimble Pianist
22nd July 2011, 08:22 PM
I think the Daily Mail has a history of things like that..

There's also a Swedish website - http://politisktinkorrekt.info/ - an anti-Islam website that was one of the first to cover the bombing with lots of rants against Islam, but now are like 'yeah, huh, they report the perpetrator as Nordic! I thought we weren't supposed to report on race in these politically correct times!' Funny enough, their website translates to 'politically incorrect' in English. I bet they're feeling a bit stupid right now.

Totally off-topic, but...

Do you also speak Swedish or is Norwegian and Swedish mutually intelligible?

Puppycow
22nd July 2011, 08:23 PM
Only good thing about this mess is we have the swine in custody, and the cops are probably highly determined to make him spill all the beans he can spill. We'll probably know everything there is to know about motives and methodology in due time.

I hear that prison in Norway is like summer camp. Very humane. What is the worst that can happen to him?

Safe-Keeper
22nd July 2011, 08:24 PM
Do you also speak Swedish or is Norwegian and Swedish mutually intelligible? Swedish, Norwegian and Danish are more or less understandable by everyone who speaks one of them fluently. Our circus teacher was from Sweden, and while we in the beginning had some difficulty understanding her, now I understand spoken Swedish with no difficulty at all (save from some words that aren't the same in both languages, but even then I get the meaning from context 99% of the time).

I hear that prison in Norway is like summer camp. Very humane. What is the worst that can happen to him? It's not the feds or prison system he has to worry about, it's his fellow pissed-off Norwegian prisoners.

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 08:27 PM
Do you also speak Swedish or is Norwegian and Swedish mutually intelligible?

What Safe-Keeper said. Norwegian, Danish and Swedish can in many ways be seen as different dialects of the same language.

It's not the feds or prison system he has to worry about, it's his fellow pissed-off Norwegian prisoners.

He'll probably be put in solitary for his own protection.. For a very, very long time..

Puppycow
22nd July 2011, 08:39 PM
He'll probably be put in solitary for his own protection.. For a very, very long time..

Please tell me they won't send him here (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1384308/Norways-controversial-cushy-prison-experiment--catch-UK.html).

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 08:40 PM
Please tell me they won't send him here (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1384308/Norways-controversial-cushy-prison-experiment--catch-UK.html).

If it makes sure he doesn't re-offend, why not?

But I doubt it. Not the first years of his sentence, at least.

Puppycow
22nd July 2011, 08:56 PM
If it makes sure he doesn't re-offend, why not?

But I doubt it. Not the first years of his sentence, at least.

It may have a low re-offence rate but the only penalty than can "make sure" he doesn't re-offend is the death penalty.

Ryokan
22nd July 2011, 08:58 PM
It may have a low re-offence rate but the only penalty than can "make sure" he doesn't re-offend is the death penalty.

The Norwegian justice system is more about rehabilitation and preparing people for the life outside prison than about penalty and punishment. It works for us... *shrug*