Earth tilting on axis

[Materix]

There are many claims currently that the earth has tilted on its axis. Is this true?

[Turgor]

The earthquake in Japan last caused a noticeable shift i think, unless there are more recent events that caused a shift. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_T%C5%8Dhoku_earthquake_and_tsunami#Geophysica l_impacts

[KingMerv00]

There are many claims currently that the earth has tilted on its axis. Is this true?

Could you be more specific? The axis is always shifting. It is called precession (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_precession_(astronomy)).

[ehcks]

Yeah, the earth always shifts on its axis. And this shift is also increasing over time because the moon is slowly moving away from the earth.

It makes extremely little noticeable difference in our lifetimes.

[Materix]

Could you be more specific? The axis is always shifting. It is called precession.

Sorry, I am a complete amateur in this subject :blush:

The reason for the question was that I saw this video at youtube.com / watch?v=l5U1FTP-D1E

[ehcks]

Sorry, I am a complete amateur in this subject :blush:

The reason for the question was that I saw this video at youtube.com / watch?v=l5U1FTP-D1E

It's very unlikely precession relates to what they were saying. Earth goes through the whole 360 degree cycle over 26,000 years. Even a person living for 100 years would see about 1.4 degrees of it. Not nearly enough to notice the way they say they do.

[RussDill]

Could you be more specific? The axis is always shifting. It is called precession (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_precession_(astronomy)).

I don't know whether to cry or cheer for the astronomer that discovered precession. "Awesome, I'm going to calculate the distance to the stars by measuring parallax" [later] "WTF..." [later] "hooray, I've discovered precession...."

[DC]

Sorry, I am a complete amateur in this subject :blush:

The reason for the question was that I saw this video at youtube.com / watch?v=l5U1FTP-D1E

l5U1FTP-D1E

[Ladewig]

There are many claims currently that the earth has tilted on its axis. Is this true?

Many claims? Really?

I watched the video. Which do you think is more likely (a) Inuit folks have discovered "that the stars are no longer in the correct position; the sun is in the sky for longer periods of time and that is causing unseasonably warm weather; and the sun rises in the same place and now sets in a place much further over than where it used to set" or (b) their memories and/or perceptions are faulty and the Earth's axis has not shifted noticeably in the past few decades? Or perhaps they have been having several seasons of warmer weather and while looking for an explanation, they came up with the idea that the sun was in the sky longer.

Also, think of all the people who would have noticed the change and not said anything. All the astronomers, navigators, scientists. Think of all the navies and air forces of countries around the world. The pyramidologists. The arch druids. Even those goofy guys who dress up and go to Stonehenge on the equinoxes would have noticed changes that big.


_________
Question for astronomers: is it even possible to shift the Earth's axis in such a way that on a given day the sun would rise in the same place it rose 365 days ago and set in a much different place?

[rwguinn]

Many claims? Really?



_________
Question for astronomers: is it even possible to shift the Earth's axis in such a way that on a given day the sun would rise in the same place it rose 365 days ago and set in a much different place?
Doesn't even take an astronomer--ordinary 3-D geometry says "not without other things happening, too".

[KingMerv00]

Sorry, I am a complete amateur in this subject :blush:

The reason for the question was that I saw this video at youtube.com / watch?v=l5U1FTP-D1E

These people are suffering from faulty memories. If what they were saying is true, every single astronomer on Earth would have noticed and it would be BIG news. A sudden shift like that would mess with the seasons and crop cycles.

[Ray Brady]

Yeah, the earth always shifts on its axis. And this shift is also increasing over time because the moon is slowly moving away from the earth.

It makes extremely little noticeable difference in our lifetimes.

What are you talking about? When I was a kid, folks made quick jaunts up to the moon all the time. Now that it's so far away, nobody wants to make the trip anymore.

[Bob Blaylock]

There are many claims currently that the earth has tilted on its axis. Is this true?


This thread seems to prove that it is true. There really are many claims that the Earth has tilted on its axis, several of which have been posted in this very thread.

[DC]

These people are suffering from faulty memories. If what they were saying is true, every single astronomer on Earth would have noticed and it would be BIG news. A sudden shift like that would mess with the seasons and crop cycles.

huh, did he say sudden? i understood it as a change over long time, oh well over the years he has been observing the sun position.

[bjornart]

huh, did he say sudden? i understood it as a change over long time, oh well over the years he has been observing the sun position.

Over the years a single person has been observing the sun's position, a change that significant _is_ sudden.

[DC]

Over the years a single person has been observing the sun's position, a change that significant _is_ sudden.

true, but with sudden i understood only form the quacke in Japan for example.

[ApolloGnomon]

What are you talking about? When I was a kid, folks made quick jaunts up to the moon all the time. Now that it's so far away, nobody wants to make the trip anymore.

That's because the Recreational Vehicles used for those jaunts are out of production. I've tried to buy some of the "new old stock" so I could take the kids camping on our property near Dorsa Smirnov, but I can't afford to put the whole rig together. Maybe next summer. :D

[alfaniner]

Winter. Summer. Why? Look it up.

[godless dave]

Sorry, I am a complete amateur in this subject :blush:


Surely you learned in school why we have seasons.

[phunk]

The earthquake in Japan last caused a noticeable shift i think[/URL]

I don't know if I'd call that noticeable, more like barely measurable.

[Turgor]

I don't know if I'd call that noticeable, more like barely measurable.

True, I didn't mean noticeable as in the sun setting on the other side of a mountain. Measurable is a better way to describe it.

[freedy]

For a long time, Astronomers have been able to precisely forecast the movements of the heavenly bodies. I’m sure if the sun rose even 10 seconds late, there would be a hell of a to-do.

[Skwinty]

The Japanese earthquake caused the earth's figure axis to shift by 17cm.

The result of this is that the earth rotates faster due to the slight mass imbalance, and this causes each day to be 1.8 microseconds shorter.

[ApolloGnomon]

This thread is about one year behind the esteemed, cutting-edge David Icke Forum.

For shame.

[casebro]

Hey wait a second. If the earth's axis tilts through 360° every 26,000 years, wouldn't that really screw up all those climate proxies? Doesn't that mean that every 6,500 years, the Arctic and Antarctic are on the equator?

[Hellbound]

Hey wait a second. If the earth's axis tilts through 360° every 26,000 years, wouldn't that really screw up all those climate proxies? Doesn't that mean that every 6,500 years, the Arctic and Antarctic are on the equator?

I think you're mis-understanding it. The "point" of the axis rotates through 360 degreees, not the whole earth. Think of it like holding a flagpole and waving it in a circle. If the earth were rotating on your flagpole, wel, it'd be a really big flagpole. But also, the tilt of the flagpole, the direction it's tilted towards, rotates through all 360 degrees. Does that make it clearer?

[Ladewig]

Hey wait a second. If the earth's axis tilts through 360° every 26,000 years, wouldn't that really screw up all those climate proxies? Doesn't that mean that every 6,500 years, the Arctic and Antarctic are on the equator?

Imagine the solar system as a disc. The Earth's axis is not perpendicular to this disc. In fact is is about 23 degrees away from being perpendicular (which is what accounts for the seasons). Right now, the Earth's axis is pretty closely lined up with the North Star. But just as a top wobbles as it spins very fast, the Earth "wobbles" as well. Imagine a line through the center of the Earth and perpendicular to the Solar System, because of precession, the Earth "rotates" on this axis as well - although much more slowly (once every 26,000ish years.) That means after a few thousand years, the Earth's axis won't point at the North Star. It will move away from the North Star (in a circular path) for 13,000 years and then continue on that circular path back to the North Star in 13,000 years. The Earth's axis never leaves the 23 degree tilt, but a circular path (of 360 degrees) is traced by the axis because of precession.

We were quite lucky to have our "Age of Discovery" occur when the axis was pointing at a star. It allowed navigational advances in the Northern hemisphere to proceed relatively quickly.

[I Ratant]

It's the lack of an axial tilt that makes Asimov's "Nightfall" possible.
The one day of total darkness for the entire planet every 1000 years only works with no tilt.

[KingMerv00]

huh, did he say sudden? i understood it as a change over long time, oh well over the years he has been observing the sun position.

Adding an hour of daylight within the human lifetime is incredibly sudden.

[Skwinty]

Adding an hour of daylight within the human lifetime is incredibly sudden.

Would it even be that much?:D

[KingMerv00]

Would it even be that much?:D

Didn't the guy in the video say he had an extra hour?

[BowlOfRed]

It's the lack of an axial tilt that makes Asimov's "Nightfall" possible.
The one day of total darkness for the entire planet every 1000 years only works with no tilt.

I could assume the "whole world" means the civilized/industrialized portions, none of which are within a few degrees of the poles.

A "civilization bomb" on the earth that only affected the areas outside the arctic and antarctic circles would be almost completely effective.

[quadraginta]

The Japanese earthquake caused the earth's figure axis to shift by 17cm.

The result of this is that the earth rotates faster due to the slight mass imbalance, and this causes each day to be 1.8 microseconds shorter.


This is useful information.

Now I'll be able to explain to Mrs. qg why I didn't have time to take the garbage out yesterday.

[Skwinty]

This is useful information.

Now I'll be able to explain to Mrs. qg why I didn't have time to take the garbage out yesterday.


You can thank Richard Gross at the Nasa Jet Propulsion Lab for that scientific excuse.;)

[MG1962]

Adding an hour of daylight within the human lifetime is incredibly sudden.

Nonsense - unless you live within 15 degrees of the equator, the amount of sunlight you get changes rough 4 minutes a day

[quadraginta]

You can thank Richard Gross at the Nasa Jet Propulsion Lab for that scientific excuse.;)


"Gross" is liable to come up in any conversation about not taking out the garbage.

[RossFW]

It's the lack of an axial tilt that makes Asimov's "Nightfall" possible.
The one day of total darkness for the entire planet every 1000 years only works with no tilt.

I think the planet in the story was supposed to have an excentric orbit around a multiple-star system.

[KingMerv00]

Nonsense - unless you live within 15 degrees of the equator, the amount of sunlight you get changes rough 4 minutes a day

If I'm understanding the claim correctly, the sun is 1 hour late compared to the same spot in the orbit from the year before. Comparing that to the precession, that is fast, yes?

[MG1962]

If I'm understanding the claim correctly, the sun is 1 hour late compared to the same spot in the orbit from the year before. Comparing that to the precession, that is fast, yes?

Wether it is or not is of no consequence. Life on this planet is adapted to changing amounts of sunlight. Other than having to rewrite ephemeris and astronomers adjusting their research schedules, nothing is going to change

[ApolloGnomon]

If I'm understanding the claim correctly, the sun is 1 hour late compared to the same spot in the orbit from the year before. Comparing that to the precession, that is fast, yes?

Spring forward, fall back? As others have said, any significant changes would be noticed by everyone, everywhere, including the people who fling stuff into orbit and loose buckets of money if it goes wrong.

[KingMerv00]

Wether it is or not is of no consequence. Life on this planet is adapted to changing amounts of sunlight. Other than having to rewrite ephemeris and astronomers adjusting their research schedules, nothing is going to change

Whether or not things would change is a different topic. I was addressing the accuracy of the claim.

Since you brought it up, I think the problems could become severe if the tilt became a trend. Wouldn't the sudden reversal of the seasons be bad for plant growing cycles?

[Reivax]

You'll have to excuse the fact that this is a FOX News story, but interesting regardless.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HW9tTJ2RkGA&feature=related

[Roger Ramjets]

any significant changes would be noticed by ... the people who fling stuff into orbit and loose buckets of money if it goes wrong.There's an obvious flaw in that argument.

You don't see it? OK then, I'll let you in a little secret. It wasn't just the Apollo moon landings that were faked... :eye-poppi

[CapelDodger]

As I understand it, spring sunrise has been coming earlier in the Arctic recently but this has been explained by changing atmospheric conditions. Can't recall where I read that, I'll see if I can find it.

[Jack by the hedge]

There's an obvious flaw in that argument.

You don't see it? OK then, I'll let you in a little secret. It wasn't just the Apollo moon landings that were faked... :eye-poppi

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm going to need another clue.

[Dinwar]

Wouldn't the sudden reversal of the seasons be bad for plant growing cycles? Depends on how "sudden" it is. Of course, plants relying on humanity are set--we ourselves act as a buffer (planting seeds when they need to be planted, rather than when the plants drop them, things like that--we like to eat). And if it takes a few thousand years, plants probably would do all right. A few of the more sensitive species would be gone, but the rest would handle it fine, I'd imagine. It's just an example of a directional selective pressure, and most taxa have experienced those at some point or another.

[Skeptic Ginger]

As I understand it, spring sunrise has been coming earlier in the Arctic recently but this has been explained by changing atmospheric conditions. Can't recall where I read that, I'll see if I can find it.Huh? How could the atmosphere change when the Earth rotated? I could see how precession or a very large earthquake or impact from a space object could alter the time of sunrise, by microseconds or whatever, but the atmosphere? No, I can't see that happening.

[Skeptic Ginger]

The Japanese earthquake caused the earth's figure axis to shift by 17cm.
...17 cm is a HUGE amount. I am skeptical of the amount.

OK, I'm satisfied with the figure after all (http://www.space.com/11115-japan-earthquake-shortened-earth-days.html).

[KingMerv00]

17 cm is a HUGE amount. I am skeptical of the amount.

OK, I'm satisfied with the figure after all (http://www.space.com/11115-japan-earthquake-shortened-earth-days.html).

The speed at which you changed your opinion made me laugh. I'm tempted to bookmark this post so I have something ready the next time someone calls a skeptic "close-minded".

[Corsair 115]

Huh? How could the atmosphere change when the Earth rotated?


I would assume it has to do with the way light is being refracted in the atmosphere. The refraction of light can cause the Sun to appear to be just above the horizon to an observer even though it's actually below.

[Skeptic Ginger]

The speed at which you changed your opinion made me laugh. I'm tempted to bookmark this post so I have something ready the next time someone calls a skeptic "close-minded".:D

[Soapy Sam]

Man the pumps, she's rolling over...