"Country schools score higher than city"

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Mr Shepherd said the finding questioned the policy mantra that encouraging school choice to create competition would raise the performance of schools -- and thereby students.

"We all (thought we) knew, or at least suspected, that metropolitan schools do better academically than provincial schools, that in turn do better than remote schools and so on," he said.

"But a majority of country schools are actually doing a little better than the metro schools."

Co-director of the Centre for Population and Urban Research at Monash University Bob Birrell said while it was difficult to separate all the variables affecting school performance, one crucial factor was the relatively wide mix of students in country schools from different family backgrounds.

"Rural schools enrol across a relatively wide social spectrum," he said. "There is rarely any parallel to primary and secondary schools located in disadvantaged metropolitan areas, where most students come from disadvantaged backgrounds.

In addition, rural schools were more likely to recruit teachers from the local community who tended to be more concerned about educational outcomes for the community.

"By contrast, teachers in metropolitan disadvantaged areas typically travel into these schools and thus have less engagement with the local community."Mr Shepherd said the finding questioned the policy mantra that encouraging school choice to create competition would raise the performance of schools -- and thereby students.

Linky. (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/country-schools-score-higher-than-city/story-fn59niix-1226114059771)

I am of the thought that socioeconomics is key to the current condition of failing schools, but I am at a bit of a loss at where to go after identifying the problem.

[rwguinn]

Incentive. School and education are a way to avoid (if only temporarily) the hard work and long hours of rural life?

[Manopolus]

So.... smaller class sizes actually DO have an impact? This is not new or surprising. Also, having come from a School where my graduating class was 16 (financially diverse, but racially identical) people, I feel qualified to tell you that knowing your teachers socially actually HELPS (assuming, of course, that your teachers are decent people), which is why I find the Missouri law mentioned in another thread a bit odd.

Actually, come to think of it, my best class performance was in a class where I did not see the teacher as an authority figure at all, but as a friend. This may not work for everyone, admittedly -- I had some serious issues with authority growing up (and still do to an extent). I'm pretty sure these issues would have been even worse in an urban environment. As it was, at least I didn't fall into the "wrong crowd," do any drugs beyond alcohol, or get arrested. There's less opportunity for mischief in the middle of nowhere (and you're less likely to get caught when you find the opportunity, too).

[L.Y.S.]

City schools are too packed and have too much drama.

[Weak Kitten]

Wow, small town schools do better than schools in impoverished ghettos. That...doesn't surprise me at all.

What next? Rural kids have more access to fresh fruits and vegetables? Inner city kids have a higher chance of getting hit by a car?

[L.Y.S.]

Wow, small town schools do better than schools in impoverished ghettos. That...doesn't surprise me at all.

What next? Rural kids have more access to fresh fruits and vegetables? Inner city kids have a higher chance of getting hit by a car?

It has more to do with student to teacher ratio then funding.

[Freethinker]

I think it has at least an order of magnitude more to do with parents who care about their kids than anything else.

You can pretend like money, buildings, testing standards, small classs size, new computers or super-teachers makes a difference, but if the kids don't get support at home for their education, it's all a waste of effort.

[daenku32]

I think it has at least an order of magnitude more to do with parents who care about their kids than anything else.

You can pretend like money, buildings, testing standards, small classs size, new computers or super-teachers makes a difference, but if the kids don't get support at home for their education, it's all a waste of effort.

When it comes to homes, I see rural homes typically having more sqr-footage which can be used for learning. And less night-time noise which allows kids to get rest they need.

When it comes to the actual parenting, I can see equal amount of delinquency in both rural and urban neighborhoods.

[rwguinn]

When it comes to homes, I see rural homes typically having more sqr-footage which can be used for learning. And less night-time noise which allows kids to get rest they need.

When it comes to the actual parenting, I can see equal amount of delinquency in both rural and urban neighborhoods.
Depends on what you call "Delinquency".
A jail-term crime in Los Angeles may only be a stern talking-to by cops and parents in Backwater, Nebraska.

[Halfcentaur]

Cramming children into a room to cram for test scores, with the philosophy of only retaining the information and applying it long enough to pass a test over it being paramount, seems the issue here to me. Small classes with individuals being engaged by their teachers is the key here. I don't think support at home is really an issue.

When you're just another face in the crowd, the teacher just moves through the lessons mechanically. I could not believe the difference it made after dropping out for nearly 4 years of public high school when I started attending a work at my own pace alternative school with class sizes of no more than 10 students. There's no coasting available in such an environment.

[L.Y.S.]

I think it has at least an order of magnitude more to do with parents who care about their kids than anything else.

You can pretend like money, buildings, testing standards, small classs size, new computers or super-teachers makes a difference, but if the kids don't get support at home for their education, it's all a waste of effort.

There is a huge difference, city schools are set up for failure, and the relationship between teachers and students help to also further solidify the idea that school is nothing more than "what the government wants me to do." Most teachers put no effort into it, and the classrooms are often a reflection of a teacher's expectations on the child.

I don't doubt the parent part, but you wouldn't know how many inner city parents do care about their children’s' education. Crammed classes -like Halfcentaur said- do not benefit the children.

There are lots more factors than I can name, but city schools do need to be reformed.

[Beerina]

So.... smaller class sizes actually DO have an impact? This is not new or surprising. Also, having come from a School where my graduating class was 16 (financially diverse, but racially identical) people, I feel qualified to tell you that knowing your teachers socially actually HELPS (assuming, of course, that your teachers are decent people), which is why I find the Missouri law mentioned in another thread a bit odd.

Actually, come to think of it, my best class performance was in a class where I did not see the teacher as an authority figure at all, but as a friend. This may not work for everyone, admittedly -- I had some serious issues with authority growing up (and still do to an extent). I'm pretty sure these issues would have been even worse in an urban environment. As it was, at least I didn't fall into the "wrong crowd," do any drugs beyond alcohol, or get arrested. There's less opportunity for mischief in the middle of nowhere (and you're less likely to get caught when you find the opportunity, too).

Japan and so on have bigger class sizes (http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/11/class-size-around-the-world/) and kick our ass.



This issue has been studied -- the greatest correlate to success of a student is family emphasis on education. It outweighs everything else put together.

Much like we want pills to make us lose weight, we want "pills" to make schools work while we sit there chugging 8000-calorie superburgers.

[L.Y.S.]

Japan and so on have bigger class sizes (http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/11/class-size-around-the-world/) and kick our ass.



This issue has been studied -- the greatest correlate to success of a student is family emphasis on education. It outweighs everything else put together.

Much like we want pills to make us lose weight, we want "pills" to make schools work while we sit there chugging 8000-calorie superburgers.

Can I see a study, video, or link supporting this study? Thank you in advance.

[rwguinn]

Can I see a study, video, or link supporting this study? Thank you in advance.
I'd also like to see the evidence which shows that every Japanese child, of every social and economic status, below the ages of 14-16 years is required to sit in on (and the results reported for) these tests used for comparison...

[L.Y.S.]

I'd also like to see the evidence which shows that every Japanese child, of every social and economic status, below the ages of 14-16 years is required to sit in on (and the results reported for) these tests used for comparison...

Notice how when asked to back up evidence people get silent?

[rwguinn]

Notice how when asked to back up evidence people get silent?
Yup.
Much easier to scream "US Education sucks" than provide evidence that it is so.

[L.Y.S.]

Yup.
Much easier to scream "US Education sucks" than provide evidence that it is so.

I'll see if I can dig something up that resembles his statement, I won't be surprised if I find contrary evidence however.

[rwguinn]

I'd also like to see the evidence which shows that every Japanese child, of every social and economic status, below the ages of 14-16 years is required to sit in on (and the results reported for) these tests used for comparison...

Notice how when asked to back up evidence people get silent?

I'll see if I can dig something up that resembles his statement, I won't be surprised if I find contrary evidence however.
:crickets:

[L.Y.S.]

:crickets:

Sorry I've been on other parts of the forum. Give it some time.

[rwguinn]

Sorry I've been on other parts of the forum. Give it some time.
I wasn't referring to you...:D

[stevea]

I think it has at least an order of magnitude more to do with parents who care about their kids than anything else.

You can pretend like money, buildings, testing standards, small classs size, new computers or super-teachers makes a difference, but if the kids don't get support at home for their education, it's all a waste of effort.

I admit I find the argument that it's primarily cultural very attractive, but I also suspect it's rather difficult to convincingly prove. To be fair all of the evidence discussed in the link article refers to correlates, and pure speculation in the article and on this thread about causation. That not a good approach to any problem.