Virgin birth?

[dsm]

Hmmm. A possible explanation for the virgin birth of Christ:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=585&e=1&u=/nm/20040421/sc_nm/science_mice_dc

What do you think?

:D

[Navigator]

This infers that there was at least one necessary expert involved in Mary's pregnancy, who was able to perform the opperations, which poses some problems since the knowledge on how to do this kind of thing isn't likely to have been known by anyone back then.

[dsm]

Hmmm. Possibly. Not being an expert in the biological/chemical mechanisms, I thought there was possibility that it could happen by chance. The chance, of course, would be extremely small and, thus, the reason for the one and only virgin birth.

[Navigator]

Originally posted by dsm
Hmmm. Possibly. Not being an expert in the biological/chemical mechanisms, I thought there was possibility that it could happen by chance. The chance, of course, would be extremely small and, thus, the reason for the one and only virgin birth.

...The fused eggs were chemically activated to produce embryos that were implanted into the wombs of mice....


Unless there was a branch of science back then able to do this thing, then the answer must be "The Virgin Birth Is A Myth"

[dsm]

Originally posted by Navigator


...The fused eggs were chemically activated to produce embryos that were implanted into the wombs of mice....


Unless there was a branch of science back then able to do this thing, then the answer must be "The Virgin Birth Is A Myth"

Agreed. I saw the line you reference. I thought that that was what needed to be done to force the development of the egg without sperm. I couldn't tell, though, whether there was any possibility that this could happen on its own given two eggs from a single woman.

Ultimately, though, I wasn't advancing this as a solid theory -- just some minor speculation.

[shemp]

Originally posted by Navigator


...The fused eggs were chemically activated to produce embryos that were implanted into the wombs of mice....


Unless there was a branch of science back then able to do this thing, then the answer must be "The Virgin Birth Is A Myth"

Or maybe Jesus was a mouse.

[DangerousBeliefs]

Virgin birth is an amazing and wonderous thing...

Most of the good Christian girls I grew up around had immaculate conceptions. All of them pure virgins and then to get pregnant suddenly like that... tragic, tragic.

I'm sure Mary (if she existed) was in a very similar situation... and so were so many other young Jewish girls.

"Daddy I'm pregnant."

"Who was he, you little tramp!"

"No one, I've been with no one!"

"Don't try and pull that messiah crap with me little missy!"

"Honest daddy, honest."

"Well, I'll get the donkey then so you can be on your way to Bethlaham."

Edited to add: The only pausible kind of virgin conception would be an ejaculation of the man near the woman's genitals which allowed at least a few sperm to reach the egg. There have been a few recorded cases of this.

[Hellbound]

Just a simple genetic fact to point out, as well.

This explanation, even if possible, could NOT account for the birth of a male child. Two eggs fusing would provide no Y chromosome.

[Deetee]

Do we know for sure JC was a male??

I mean - just look at that long hair and stuff. The beard could have been bought at a joke shop.

[Skeptical Greg]

Well, some people who believe the Shroud of Turin is authentic ,say that Jesus had ( has ) type AB blood..


This would refute any possibility that an unfertilized egg was involved..


It also settles the question about God's gender, unless you want to make things even more complicated and suggest that God used a sperm donor for this immaculate conception..

[DanishDynamite]

Dark news indeed, for us drones (males). How long before we as a gender will be made redundant?

The Amazon Warrior Age is upon us!

[dsm]

Originally posted by DangerousBeliefs

Edited to add: The only pausible kind of virgin conception would be an ejaculation of the man near the woman's genitals which allowed at least a few sperm to reach the egg. There have been a few recorded cases of this.

While the woman was still a virgin??

:confused:

[Tanja]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by DangerousBeliefs

Edited to add: The only pausible kind of virgin conception would be an ejaculation of the man near the woman's genitals which allowed at least a few sperm to reach the egg. There have been a few recorded cases of this.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

About five or six years ago I was in a car with a friend of mine, she was driving me home on a busy motorway. We were talking about pregnancy, and she said "did you know that you can get pregnant without actually having sex with the man" (she was thinking something along the lines of what is written above. I replied "you mean every 2000 years or so an immaculate conception occurs?". She started laughing so hard she almost drove off the road.

[tracer]

Here's another online newspaper's take on the same story:

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/science_technology/story.jsp?story=513986

Note the following paragraph:

"Of the 10 live and 18 dead foetuses, two survived birth and just one lived long enough to develop into an apparently normal adult female, which the researchers have named Kaguya. In effect, Kaguya has two genetic mothers. She was created by merging the chromosomes of a genetically altered mouse with an egg from another mouse."

They needed to deliberately alter the genes of one mouse, and then merge them with an oocyte (egg cell) from another mouse. Hardly what I'd call "going solo".

[Bikewer]

As I recall, it was fairly common practice at the time for a young couple to have a "trial marriage", to see if they were compatible. If it didn't work out, the woman was still considered to be virginal...

Perhaps our biblical scholars can comment.

[athon]

Originally posted by Bikewer
As I recall, it was fairly common practice at the time for a young couple to have a "trial marriage", to see if they were compatible. If it didn't work out, the woman was still considered to be virginal...

Perhaps our biblical scholars can comment.

While this is close to hijacking the thread (and forcing it into the Religion forum), I'll make a brief comment here.

Depending on which scholars you listen to, there is a concensus among some that the society Jesus was raised in followed just such practices as 'trial marriage'. There is one interesting proposal that says Joseph was technically a village priest, belonging to the leadership of his community. As such, he had strict rules to follow regarding when he could have sex with his wife. It was only once every three years, and under special conditions. He broke these rules, and the resulting child was considered a bastard and could not inherit his place in the leadership of the community.

In my opinion, while this is indeed supported historically, it is a stretch to apply this to the gospels. I personally believe that since it was common in that part of the world to have anybody of significance being of virgin birth (a lot of Greek, Syrian, and earlier Parthian heroes, kings and gods were of virgin birth...it wasn't limited to Christ), then this was applied to Jesus by the gospel authors.

Athon

[Bikewer]

You're right, I recall one article from an anthropologist (Harris?) listing seven or eight famous individuals from the period who were supposed to have been the result of virgin birth.

Sort of de rigeur for the upcoming....

[Prester John]

Originally posted by dsm


While the woman was still a virgin??

:confused:

Oral sex on the male to ejaculation, followed by oral sex on the female is a possible route :p

[SGT]

Unless there was a branch of science back then able to do this thing, then the answer must be "The Virgin Birth Is A Myth" [/B]

What about Atlanteans? According to the believers they had far more advanced technology than that.

[DangerousBeliefs]

Originally posted by SGT


What about Atlanteans? According to the believers they had far more advanced technology than that.

The believers have no evidence of supposed advanced technology. In fact, the entire idea that the Atlanteans had genetic or biological advances is complete "pie in the sky" wishful thinking.

Some have suggested that the Atlanteans had brass, but while this would be advanced for the bronze age, certainly doesn't leapfrog them into the realm of modern medicine.

Heck, we don't even know if Atlantis was real!

[SGT]

Originally posted by DangerousBeliefs


The believers have no evidence of supposed advanced technology. In fact, the entire idea that the Atlanteans had genetic or biological advances is complete "pie in the sky" wishful thinking.

Some have suggested that the Atlanteans had brass, but while this would be advanced for the bronze age, certainly doesn't leapfrog them into the realm of modern medicine.

Heck, we don't even know if Atlantis was real!

I am new in the board, so you cannot see I am joking. I said Atlanteans, but it could be ETs from planet Nibiru, Santa Claus or the tooth fairy. All this entities have the same credibility.

[Navigator]

Originally posted by SGT


What about Atlanteans? According to the believers they had far more advanced technology than that.

According to the believers - correct - this might explain why some think Aliens were involved in the Virgin Birth - and planted their own seed into Humanity - artificail insemination = virgin birth.

[DangerousBeliefs]

Originally posted by SGT


I am new in the board, so you cannot see I am joking. I said Atlanteans, but it could be ETs from planet Nibiru, Santa Claus or the tooth fairy. All this entities have the same credibility.

Sorry, it's hard to tell if someone with 2 posts is joking... :D

[wipeout]

Originally posted by DanishDynamite
Dark news indeed, for us drones (males). How long before we as a gender will be made redundant?

The Amazon Warrior Age is upon us!

Amazon Warriors don't sound so bad. Mutant lesbians sounds worse. :D

I'd guess the ability to clone the cells involved in pregnancy and create an incubator using them could potentially remove women from reproduction as well.

Probably more likely to be used to help endangered animals than for humans, I 'd guess, though.

[tracer]

Originally posted by Prester John
Oral sex on the male to ejaculation, followed by oral sex on the female is a possible route :p
So, for that matter, is dry-humping.