Photographs of burned bodies strapped to plane seats?

[little grey rabbit]

Robbyn Swan, co-author of The Eleventh Day: The Full Story of 9/11 and Osama bin Laden, told the Guardian: "I invite anyone who believes that to talk to the many eyewitnesses who saw the plane approach and hit the Pentagon. I invite them to look, as I have done, at the absolutely horrific photographs of the burned bodies of the victims of flight 77 still strapped into their plane seats that were found amongst the ruins of the Pentagon."

Is this true - that bodies were found in the Pentagon still strapped to aircraft seats? Why was this not seen at Shanksville?

Or it is not true what was Robbyn Swan's motivations for saying this?

[kookbreaker]

Is this true - that bodies were found in the Pentagon still strapped to aircraft seats? Why was this not seen at Shanksville?

Or it is not true what was Robbyn Swan's motivations for saying this?

Moussaoui trial evidence. Its online. Has been online since the trial ended.

Why are you so bad at this?

[Dash80]

Is this true - that bodies were found in the Pentagon still strapped to aircraft seats? Why was this not seen at Shanksville?

Or it is not true what was Robbyn Swan's motivations for saying this?
I have seen photos of burned bodies in the pentagon, and that they were plane passengers, but I don't think he meant completely intact seats anyway. There are also reports of body parts, torso parts with "belt-like straps" at the WTC.

There's a non-suspicious answer for Flight 93 of course. Most passengers were right at the front storming the cockpit and not even in their seats. A plane that burrowed many feet into the ground concentrating a lot of the force downward and not throwing the bodies clear.

[sylvan8798]

It's not unusual in plane-crash-into-ground events for the body parts to be on the small side :(.

[Travis]

Is this true - that bodies were found in the Pentagon still strapped to aircraft seats? Why was this not seen at Shanksville?

Or it is not true what was Robbyn Swan's motivations for saying this?

High velocity impact at an obtuse angle vs a high velocity impact at an acute angle. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physics)

I assume you also ask why every baseball hit isn't a home run since the balls are being pitched fast and the batters swing hard.

[leftysergeant]

Not every passenger at the Pentagon struck an imoveable object. All of them at Shanksville did.

[little grey rabbit]

Moussaoui trial evidence. Its online. Has been online since the trial ended.

Why are you so bad at this?

Thank you for your help, kookbreaker. There is really no need for your emotional response (although I do understand). I am not trying to convince you or indeed anybody that a missile and not a plane hit the pentagon (we have sufficient evidence of this, some in the public sphere and some not.)

What I am trying to delineate is the nature of the evidence that has been created.

As such the issue of the photos of bodies strapped to airline seats is fascinating - if they really exist.

A quick google reveals:
Mark Willams: "When Williams discovered the scorched bodies of several airline passengers, they were still strapped into their seats. The stench of charred flesh overwhelmed him.

'It was the worst thing you can imagine,' said Williams, whose squad from Fort Belvoir, Va., entered the building, less than four hours after the terrorist attack. 'I wanted to cry from the minute I walked in. But I have soldiers under me and I had to put my feelings aside.' "Source

"I did see airplane seats and a corpse still strapped to one of the seats."
–Capt. Jim Ingledue, Virginia Beach Fire Dept. Source

But these are not photos, just claims by the usual suspects. Americans can generate this type of testimony by the bucket load. Photos would be a fascinating a further development.

More googling has left open the possibility that only photos of bodies (not necessarily strapped to airplane seats) were shown


(AP) ALEXANDRIA, Va. Prosecutors seeking Zacarias Moussaoui's execution introduced gruesome evidence of the horrors of terrorism Tuesday showing pictures of burned and blackened bodies from the Sept. 11, 2001, attack on the Pentagon.

Over the objections of defense attorneys and despite warnings by a federal judge that such a strategy could backfire, government lawyers displayed for jurors the most gut-wrenching evidence yet in a sentencing trial studded with one horrific image after another.

The photos were of the attack at the Defense Department, very near where the jurors are sitting. Each picture was displayed for just a few seconds each. They showed mostly intact bodies with facial features still discernible. One torso, covered with white ash, looked more like an ancient statue.

OTOH, that last line is highly suggestive of another possible strategy.

It wouldnt be the first time the US military had resorted to such depths....
http://littlegreyrabbit.wordpress.com/2011/01/12/before-the-roswell-autopsy-the-strasbourg-anatomical-institute/



Any thoughts about relative fate of airline seats at Shanksville and the Pentagon? Perhaps there is a rule of physics saying airline seats are more likely to stay intact when a plane crashes into a confined space where lots of American military personal have exclusive access?

[Dash80]

Thank you for your help, kookbreaker. There is really no need for your emotional response (although I do understand). I am not trying to convince you or indeed anybody that a missile and not a plane hit the pentagon (we have sufficient evidence of this, some in the public sphere and some not.)

What I am trying to delineate is the nature of the evidence that has been created.

As such the issue of the photos of bodies strapped to airline seats is fascinating - if they really exist.

A quick google reveals:


But these are not photos, just claims by the usual suspects. Americans can generate this type of testimony by the bucket load. Photos would be a fascinating a further development.

More googling has left open the possibility that only photos of bodies (not necessarily strapped to airplane seats) were shown



OTOH, that last line is highly suggestive of another possible strategy.

It wouldnt be the first time the US military had resorted to such depths....
http://littlegreyrabbit.wordpress.com/2011/01/12/before-the-roswell-autopsy-the-strasbourg-anatomical-institute/



Any thoughts about relative fate of airline seats at Shanksville and the Pentagon? Perhaps there is a rule of physics saying airline seats are more likely to stay intact when a plane crashes into a confined space where lots of American military personal have exclusive access?
Here's an experiment to try rabbit. Throw yourself through a window (ground level on to grass maybe, not actually intending to kill you here). Then drop from a great height into soft earth (warning: this might actually kill you). I guarantee the ground will stop your momentum. You won't be blasted clear like you might if you were traveling in an open space. Which is essentially what the inside of the Pentagon (and the WTC) was, office space. Soft ground it may be but the earth won't move out of the way for you rabbit. While at the pentagon and wtc the momentum carried those body parts much further.

[little grey rabbit]

Here's an experiment to try rabbit. Throw yourself through a window (ground level on to grass maybe, not actually intending to kill you here). Then drop from a great height into soft earth (warning: this might actually kill you). I guarantee the ground will stop your momentum and leave you buried. You won't be blasted clear like you might if you were traveling in an open space. Which is essentially what the inside of the Pentagon (and the WTC) was, office space.

I am not sure how why this means airplane seats are more likely to stay intact - in fact I would have thought the reverse might be true.

Anyway I think I have made my point sufficiently in the fascinating difference in intactness of human remains where Pentagon officials have privileged access as opposed to where the hoi polloi can get a peek.

I am more interested in the nature of the photos shown at this trial. Are there any more specific descriptions out there?

[Dash80]

I am not sure how why this means airplane seats are more likely to stay intact - in fact I would have thought the reverse might be true.

Why are you having difficulty understanding this? The earth won't move out of the way, concentrating the blast. In the buildings there were things that would move and open space, this would carry debris further. Some things (and people) would have a better chance of being more intact. The force was dispersed over a wider area.

[little grey rabbit]

Why are you having difficulty understanding this? The earth won't move out of the way, concentrating the blast. In the buildings there were things that would move and open space, this would carry debris further. Some things (and people) would have a better chance of being more intact. The force was dispersed over a wider area.

You know I think even an eight year old girl could see through that nonsense...

Anyway back to the photographs of burnt corpses strapped to airline seats - any more specific descriptors of the Moussaoui trial evidence?

[Dash80]

You know I think even an eight year old girl could see through that nonsense...

Anyway back to the photographs of burnt corpses strapped to airline seats - any more specific descriptors of the Moussaoui trial evidence?
Ok lets try something else. Light Poles for example, can you think why many have breakaway bases, why there is more give in many of them? You crash into one that is much more resilient, it WILL do more damage.

[little grey rabbit]

Ok lets try something else. Light Poles for example, can you think why many have breakaway bases, why there is more give in many of them? You crash into one that is much more resilient, it WILL do more damage.

Uh-huh

Now about those photos....

[Dash80]

Uh-huh

Now about those photos....
What about them rabbit? You've been told how they're possible. Whats your point?

[Craig4]

Uh-huh

Now about those photos....

Why? There's no value in discussing it with you.

[roger]

Anyway I think I have made my point sufficiently in the fascinating difference in intactness of human remains where Pentagon officials have privileged access as opposed to where the hoi polloi can get a peek.That is extraordinarily, um, mistaken. Do you realize how many civilians work at the Pentagon? My company employs quite a few,and they were in the next office secton over from the crash. They walked through the office, seeing dead bodies everywhere (they were so close that the walls were blown out so they could see the after effects), out of the Pentagon, down the road to our main office, where they sat there in a daze, repeatedly mentioning all the burning bodies and parts.

[little grey rabbit]

That is extraordinarily, um, mistaken. Do you realize how many civilians work at the Pentagon? My company employs quite a few,and they were in the next office secton over from the crash. They walked through the office, seeing dead bodies everywhere (they were so close that the walls were blown out so they could see the after effects), out of the Pentagon, down the road to our main office, where they sat there in a daze, repeatedly mentioning all the burning bodies and parts.

Well leaving aside the probability that you wouldn't be getting all that many contracts if you said anything else.....

No, I don't have idea about the Pentagon or the people who work in it. I have no dispute that the death toll of Pentagon is absolutely correct (OTOH nothing would surprise me when it comes to the Pentagon - simply I have no information to hand to dispute it).

But it is completely impossible for there to have been photographs of burned bodies strapped to airline seats. I trying to uncover if such photos actually exist - ie faked. Or if they are only a confusion between gossip about seeing bodies strapped to airline seats and the fact that photos of burned bodies being presented at a trial - which wouldn't involve fakery.

[RCory]

I am not sure how why this means airplane seats are more likely to stay intact - in fact I would have thought the reverse might be true.


that line right there is truther "logic" in a nutshell. No evidence, no science, no facts. Just "I don't think that's what would happen."

and maybe this is the photgraph you're referring to...
http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/prosecution/P200045.html

[AJM8125]

Well leaving aside the probability that you wouldn't be getting all that many contracts if you said anything else....

That's almost a decent troll, but you stop short at really going over the top. I give it a 4/10.

[JohnG]

You know I think even an eight year old girl could see through that nonsense...


The average eight year old girl is brighter and has more common sense than any Conspiracy Theorist I've ever run across.

[JohnG]

But it is completely impossible for there to have been photographs of burned bodies strapped to airline seats. I trying to uncover if such photos actually exist - ie faked. Or if they are only a confusion between gossip about seeing bodies strapped to airline seats and the fact that photos of burned bodies being presented at a trial - which wouldn't involve fakery.


So...there are no photos of passengers strapped to their seats...but if there are the photos are faked?

We'll as long as you're keeping an open mind.

[BStrong]

Guys - I'm just an FNG here, but even I realize LGR is in the business of pulling chains and getting attention.

[JohnG]

I'm posting for the benefit of lurking Truthers. Both of them.

I know LGR is a troll. I think he thinks that pretending to be an idiot to get attention makes him superior to actual Conspiracy Theorists who crave just as much attention, only they aren't pretending.

[Dash80]

The average eight year old girl is brighter and has more common sense than any Conspiracy Theorist I've ever run across.
My daughter is eight and she understands 9/11 better than the truthers do. Her class made their own memorial, I was surprised how much she really understands when she talked about what they were doing.

[little grey rabbit]

that line right there is truther "logic" in a nutshell. No evidence, no science, no facts. Just "I don't think that's what would happen."

and maybe this is the photgraph you're referring to...
http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/prosecution/P200045.html

Pfffft.

Well you can say what you like about Americans - and lets face it who doesn't? - never again will I say they don't have a dead-pan sense of humor

[Dash80]

Pfffft.

Well you can say what you like about Americans - and lets face it who doesn't? - never again will I say they don't have a dead-pan sense of humor

What is so funny about 3000 people dying so horribly? Please explain because i'm just not seeing it.

[little grey rabbit]

What is so funny about 3000 people dying so horribly? Please explain because i'm just not seeing it.

You keep saying this and I am getting a little bit tired of pointing out I have never said 3000 people dying horribly in New York is funny - any more than I think 10 000 people being fried by American bombs in Libya is noble.

Speaking of which

AT a country fair there was a Buffoon who made all the people laugh by imitating the cries of various animals. He finished off by squeaking so like a pig that the spectators thought that he had a porker concealed about him. But a Countryman who stood by said: “Call that a pig’s squeak! Nothing like it. You give me till tomorrow and I will show you what it’s like.” The audience laughed, but next day, sure enough, the Countryman appeared on the stage, and putting his head down squealed so hideously that the spectators hissed and threw stones at him to make him stop. “You fools!” he cried, “see what you have been hissing,” and held up a little pig whose ear he had been pinching to make him utter the squeals.
“MEN OFTEN APPLAUD AN IMITATION AND HISS THE REAL THING.”

[garethdjb]

I'm posting for the benefit of lurking Truthers. Both of them.

I know LGR is a troll. I think he thinks that pretending to be an idiot to get attention makes him superior to actual Conspiracy Theorists who crave just as much attention, only they aren't pretending.


Littlegreyrabbi is certainly not pretending to be an idiot. . .

[little grey rabbit]

Littlegreyrabbi is certainly not pretending to be an idiot. . .

Oh all right, Gareth, I'll play along.

Looking at that photo, it does seem in a pose suggestive of being a person sitting in airplane. Which of course means nothing, for example the bodies in Shanksville were supposedly pulverised - and despite the fascinating physics expertise on show here, we would be hardly be surprised by any configuration a person ended up in after high speed impact. So perhaps this *ahem* body is actually from a worker in the Pentagon?

Was this ...... identified as someone from the plane?

[MRC_Hans]

Oh all right, Gareth, I'll play along.

Looking at that photo, it does seem in a pose suggestive of being a person sitting in airplane. Which of course means nothing, for example the bodies in Shanksville were supposedly pulverised - and despite the fascinating physics expertise on show here, we would be hardly be surprised by any configuration a person ended up in after high speed impact. So perhaps this *ahem* body is actually from a worker in the Pentagon?

Was this ...... identified as someone from the plane?

Nobody said it was. You asked for pictures of bodies from the court case, one was shown to you.

Here is a map of the locations of the body parts:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:FirstFloor_Pentagon_Bodies.png

Hans

[little grey rabbit]

Nobody said it was. You asked for pictures of bodies from the court case, one was shown to you.

Here is a map of the locations of the body parts:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:FirstFloor_Pentagon_Bodies.png

Hans

No, I didn't. I very clearly asked about photos of bodies strapped into airplane seats - ie whether they existed, i wasn't really expecting them to be online. Although I am not in the slightest surprised that this one is.

Is this supposed to represent a person from the airplane? Come now, he/she must have been identified.

[twinstead]

I've never seen any pictures of bodies strapped to airplane seats. These are eye witness accounts, so one can take them or leave them. I don't know if pictures actually exist.

I, being rational, realize that the existence or non existence of these pictures is totally irrelevant to 9-11 being an inside job. LRG you can focus on this as long as you want; it's sure better than dealing with the evidence we both KNOW exists, right?

[little grey rabbit]

I've never seen any pictures of bodies strapped to airplane seats. These are eye witness accounts, so one can take them or leave them. I don't know if pictures actually exist.

I, being rational, realize that the existence or non existence of these pictures is totally irrelevant to 9-11 being an inside job. LRG you can focus on this as long as you want; it's sure better than dealing with the evidence we both KNOW exists, right?

Baby steps, twinstead, baby steps.

Is the photo linked to above supposed to represent someone from the airplane or not.

This surely must be known.

[Sabrina]

If it is, the person has already been identified and the remains given to the family members to be buried. Why not let them rest in peace? Why does it matter whether they were part of the Pentagon personnel or someone on the plane?

[little grey rabbit]

If it is, the person has already been identified and the remains given to the family members to be buried. Why not let them rest in peace? Why does it matter whether they were part of the Pentagon personnel or someone on the plane?

How on earth does asking if this photo is supposed to represent someone from the aeroplane disturb anyone's rest?

Can we just get an answer to a very simple question without this absurd hyperbolic shroud waving?

[BenBurch]

What is the point of the exercise in triviality?

[twinstead]

Baby steps, twinstead, baby steps.

Is the photo linked to above supposed to represent someone from the airplane or not.

This surely must be known.

From what I can tell, it's a person who was in the Pentagon.

In your language, does "baby steps" mean "I'm going to continue to focus on irrelevant minutiae instead of looking at the preponderance of evidence"?

My trutherese is a little rusty.

[twinstead]

What is the point of the exercise in triviality?

It's a simple debate technique honed from many hours debating untenable positions. It's not about being right or proving your case, it's all about time spent debating.

Are you on the clock or something, LGR?

[PixyMisa]

What is the point of the exercise in triviality?
Not sure; your avatar is the most interesting thing in the thread.

[little grey rabbit]

From what I can tell, it's a person who was in the Pentagon.

In your language, does "baby steps" mean "I'm going to continue to focus on irrelevant minutiae instead of looking at the preponderance of evidence"?

My trutherese is a little rusty.

Would you like to reveal the basis of "what you can tell"?

And so we go back around wearingly in circles - are there photos of people strapped into aeroplane seats or identifiably from the aeroplane?

As it seems debunkers suddenly want to retreat from the one bravely presented above.

[Sabrina]

How on earth does asking if this photo is supposed to represent someone from the aeroplane disturb anyone's rest?

Can we just get an answer to a very simple question without this absurd hyperbolic shroud waving?

Again, WHY DOES IT MATTER WHETHER THEY WERE IN THE PENTAGON OR ON THE PLANE? What POSSIBLE difference will that make to the fact that a plane hit the Pentagon?

[little grey rabbit]

Again, WHY DOES IT MATTER WHETHER THEY WERE IN THE PENTAGON OR ON THE PLANE? What POSSIBLE difference will that make to the fact that a plane hit the Pentagon?

I am interested if there are photos clearly identifiable of burnt bodies in the aeroplane in the pentagon.

Its a private interest - I am interested in the depths the US military will descend to - I am not trying to persuade anybody of anything.

[Sabrina]

"The depths the US military will descend to"?

Exactly what are you thinking of accusing the US Military of doing, LGR?

[lionking]

Trolling of great incompetence.

[little grey rabbit]

"The depths the US military will descend to"?

Exactly what are you thinking of accusing the US Military of doing, LGR?
Me? I wouldn't dream of accusing the US military of doing anything. I have nothing but contempt for them.

As I said, my interest is purely personal. I am simply trying to establish the facts regarding these photos.

After all, at least we know the photos exist....

[twinstead]

I am interested if there are photos clearly identifiable of burnt bodies in the aeroplane in the pentagon.

Its a private interest - I am interested in the depths the US military will descend to - I am not trying to persuade anybody of anything.

There are witness accounts of it. I don't know if there are pictures. Maybe if you folks did real investigations instead of posting on internet forums you'd know the answer.

My private interest is the depths that irrational conspiracy theorists will go to bolster their bias. I've read your Holocaust posts; I already have my answer. The things that make you go, "hmmmm" are ludicrous. You are about as irrelevant as they come.

[MRC_Hans]

No, I didn't. I very clearly asked about photos of bodies strapped into airplane seats - ie whether they existed, i wasn't really expecting them to be online. Although I am not in the slightest surprised that this one is.

OK. According to Snopes, they don't.

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/strapped.asp

Snopes report concentrates on NY, but if a similar find existed from Pentagon, I'm sure they would mention it.

Is this supposed to represent a person from the airplane? Come now, he/she must have been identified.

I think it unlikely. Hight-speed air-crash victims tend to not be very intact (to put it tactfully :boggled:). But if you wanna find out, I'm sure you have as much access to information as anybody else, here.

I already gave you the link to info on where the passenger remains were found. As you can see, they were distributed over the whole crash area, and I'm afraid you can't expect them to resemble human bodies any more than the wreckage resembles an intact aircraft.

Hans

[MRC_Hans]

How on earth does asking if this photo is supposed to represent someone from the aeroplane disturb anyone's rest?

Can we just get an answer to a very simple question without this absurd hyperbolic shroud waving?

Why don't you just find out, if you wanna know?

Hans

[Sabrina]

Me? I wouldn't dream of accusing the US military of doing anything. I have nothing but contempt for them.

I'll be sure to share that with my soldiers; nice to know there's one less person we have to be concerned with protecting.

As I said, my interest is purely personal. I am simply trying to establish the facts regarding these photos.

After all, at least we know the photos exist....

The facts are: Photos exist of bodies and body parts in the Pentagon. Knowing more about who the bodies are falls under the purview of evidence, however, and it is likely that out of respect for the families of these victims that the identities are kept confidential. Any further interest on your part merely indicates, IMO, a prurient desire to gleefully torment the families by forcing them to remember the state their loved ones were found in. I can imagine no other reason for you to want to know who these poor victims were. If that is not the case, why don't you enlighten us, hmmm?

[tsig]

From what I can tell, it's a person who was in the Pentagon.

In your language, does "baby steps" mean "I'm going to continue to focus on irrelevant minutiae instead of looking at the preponderance of evidence"?

My trutherese is a little rusty.

That's just a phrase lgr uses when he wants to avoid a question and be condescending at the same time.

[twinstead]

That's just a phrase lgr uses when he wants to avoid a question and be condescending at the same time.

From what I can see, every single phrase in his language means that

[MRC_Hans]

I am interested if there are photos clearly identifiable of burnt bodies in the aeroplane in the pentagon.

Its a private interest - I am interested in the depths the US military will descend to - I am not trying to persuade anybody of anything.

You see, if such photos were available, LGR would claim that the US military strapped (dead?) people to seats and planted them at the Pentagon, to simulate aircraft victims.

It's a prime example of starting with a faulty conclusion and taking it to the ultimate consequence.

Hans :nope:

[newton3376]

Me? I wouldn't dream of accusing the US military of doing anything. I have nothing but contempt for them.

You don't even know anything about the US military......so your "contempt" is useless.

As I said, my interest is purely personal. I am simply trying to establish the facts regarding these photos.

After all, at least we know the photos exist....

The facts are that people died.

People on the 4 planes died. People in the twin towers and the Pentagon died.

People on the ground died as well.

What other "facts" do you need? A plane hit the Pentagon and people died as a result.......were you expecting some other outcome?

[fess]

any more than I think 10 000 people being fried by American bombs in Libya is noble.

Speaking of which


So, you think the US is the only country dropping bombs in Libya?

[Craig4]

Me? I wouldn't dream of accusing the US military of doing anything. I have nothing but contempt for them.

As I said, my interest is purely personal. I am simply trying to establish the facts regarding these photos.

After all, at least we know the photos exist....

The value in establishing the facts to your satisfaction would be what exactly?

[twinstead]

So, you think the US is the only country dropping bombs in Libya?

No, but only American bombs appear to be killing people. Everybody knows we have the best bombs

[garethdjb]

Me? I wouldn't dream of accusing the US military of doing anything. I have nothing but contempt for them.



Let it go littlegreyrabbi, you failed the aptitude test and they wouldn't let you enlist. No sense being bitter, there's plenty more careers you can pursue. Pizza delivery, for example.

[CurtC]

I don't usually post in this forum anymore, but to get to the heart of LGR's question...

Yes, a Pentagon worker described seeing bodies still strapped in their airliner seats. Is that really what he saw, or was he mistaken? Answer: we're not sure, I'd think that if there were identifiable seats with human remains in them, the bodies would have been pretty shredded.

Was the picture from the trial a picture of an airline passenger or a Pentagon worker? We don't know. I'm sure someone does. I don't see anything in that picture that is identifiable as an airline seat. My guess is that this is a Pentagon worker because he's pretty much intact.

How could the Pentagon crash have left bodies in airplane seats, when the Shanksville crash pulverized everything? That's an easy one. At Shanksville, everything in the plane hit a hard, immovable object (the ground). At the Pentagon, the front of the plane bored a hole in the wall, so that by the time the back of the plane (where the passengers were) reached that point, the wall was already gone, and the remaining bits had 200 or 300 feet's worth of distance to come to a stop. It would still be terribly violent, smashing through interior walls, cubicles, desks, and that's why I doubt any bodies were even relatively intact.

Now, why does any of that matter?

[little grey rabbit]

Was the picture from the trial a picture of an airline passenger or a Pentagon worker? We don't know. I'm sure someone does. I don't see anything in that picture that is identifiable as an airline seat. My guess is that this is a Pentagon worker because he's pretty much intact.



Given it was presented at a public trial it is almost impossible to imagine it was not presented with an identity.

I don't disagree with your understanding of what would happen in a plane crash. However, the photograph was presented by someone in specific answer to a question "are there photos of bodies strapped to aeroplane seats", which was itself a specific claim made by a published debunker.

Everyone seems (suddenly) to be of the opinion that this claim is wrong.
I suspect that this photo has indeed been presented to the court as belonging to a passenger, but I don't expect that confirmation to be now given on this forum.

For the obvious reason the photograph is blatantly pony.

It seems the judge thought so too, has he gave a fairly blunt warning to the Pentagon

Over the objections of defense attorneys and despite warnings by a federal judge that such a strategy could backfire, government lawyers displayed for jurors the most gut-wrenching evidence yet in a sentencing trial studded with one horrific image after another.


But Harriet would not take advice, she lit a match, it was so nice.

[Dash80]

For the obvious reason the photograph is blatantly pony.

It seems the judge thought so too, has he gave a fairly blunt warning to the Pentagon



But Harriet would not take advice, she lit a match, it was so nice.
WHERE IN THAT QUOTE DOES HE SAY IT'S "PONY?"

Your quote is pretty much saying displaying a parade of gory photos for shock value was frowned upon. THAT'S ALL!

[MRC_Hans]

Given it was presented at a public trial it is almost impossible to imagine it was not presented with an identity.

That is probably correct.

I don't disagree with your understanding of what would happen in a plane crash.

Good, nice to have that aside. Then what is your problem?

However, the photograph was presented by someone in specific answer to a question "are there photos of bodies strapped to aeroplane seats", which was itself a specific claim made by a published debunker.

IIRR, it was presented as "a photo from the Pentagon of a body". With no definite claims of whether it was a passenger or not.


Everyone seems (suddenly) to be of the opinion that this claim is wrong.
I suspect that this photo has indeed been presented to the court as belonging to a passenger, but I don't expect that confirmation to be now given on this forum.

I don't notice any suddenness. Seems everybody agree that passenger remains are unlikely to be present as even nearly intact bodies.

Your suspicion that it was presented to court as a photo of a passenger is obviously unfounded.

For the obvious reason the photograph is blatantly pony.

Is it? Do you mean to say it does not depict a charred human body, in the Pentagon ruins? On what do you base this assumption?

It seems the judge thought so too, has he gave a fairly blunt warning to the Pentagon

No. He advised against showing lots of gruelling pictures. When you tell lies, don't post evidence against them in the very same post. It is just too obvious.


Hans

[MRC_Hans]

WHERE IN THAT QUOTE DOES HE SAY IT'S "PONY?"

Your quote is pretty much saying displaying a parade of gory photos for shock value was frowned upon. THAT'S ALL!

It is definitely not a pony.

Hans

[FatFreddy88]

Bodies can be planted and bodies strapped in plane seats can be planted. Those bodies stapped in plane seats don't prove anything. The evidence that the craft that hit the Pentagon was too small to be a 757 is crushing.
http://www.bcrevolution.ca/911_part_iii.htm

More here.
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144746

Edit
-------------

I mean they were planted in the Pentagon before the crash.

[Sabrina]

So... the bodies were planted before the plane hit... and everyone just went about their business like there was nothing wrong with the fact that burned bodies and body parts were littering the hallways of the Pentagon?

Dude, what are you ON?

[newton3376]

So... the bodies were planted before the plane hit... and everyone just went about their business like there was nothing wrong with the fact that burned bodies and body parts were littering the hallways of the Pentagon?

Dude, what are you ON?

Cmon Sabrina....you've been to the Pentagon before....

You know that such things are actually quite common at the Pentagon....they always have burned bodies and body parts littering the hallways......

:boggled:

[Sabrina]

Cmon Sabrina....you've been to the Pentagon before....

You know that such things are actually quite common at the Pentagon....they always have burned bodies and body parts littering the hallways......

:boggled:

Actually I haven't been IN the Pentagon... :o

Yet, that is; I'm sure I'll eventually get there.

[newton3376]

Actually I haven't been IN the Pentagon... :o

Yet, that is; I'm sure I'll eventually get there.

(Technically....neither have I ;))

Actually burned bodies are quite common at ALL the major government buildings....

You name the agency....CIA, NSA, DIA, NGIC, ONI, FBI, ATF, NRO, NGO.....they all just have freaking burned bodies laying around just in case there is a false flag attack.

FatFreddy88......

WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU?

[FatFreddy88]

They wouldn't be burned when they put them there. They would have gotten burned when the craft crashed. It wouldn't have been impossible to put a few bodies strapped into plane seats in an office during the night.

In this link there's a documentary called "Painful Deceptions".
http://www.question911.com/linksall.htm

In the last five minutes of part one this issue is discussed and it fits the scenario of the plane's being too small to be a 757.

[Sunstealer]

They wouldn't be burned when they put them there. They would have gotten burned when the craft crashed. It wouldn't have been impossible to put a few bodies strapped into plane seats in an office during the night.Yeah, I started work with a company a few years ago that's part of the Industrial Military Complex. It was a bit of a shock to come in early one day and find a couple of bodies propped up in chairs in the office, but my manager popped in and explained that it was all part of the drill for when the NWO wanted to launch a false flag op.

I got talking to the couriers who bring the bodies in past security and they just pick 'em up at the morgue and bring them in a van now and again. It's surprising just how many people donate their bodies to the NWO rather than medical science.

All the logs and DNA and work records are all changed to make it look like these people work in the same office as me even though I've never seen them before.

I mean honestly, are you that far gone, that stupid, or that sick that you truly believe in such utter crap? The more I've read truther posts on the net the more I've realised what a sad bunch of truly pathetic, sick, sad and lonely people they must really be.

Welcome to my growing ignore list of losers. Bye.

It really is time that people just respond once to such nonsense and then just ignore the trolls or the mentally unstable.

[Pinch]

I continue to be amazed - well, not exactly, since most Truthers say very little in the realm of functional logic when it comes to 9/11 discussions - why Truthers think they should be privy to every report, every photograph, every note, every discussion, every document, every everything that has ever been generated by every investigation of any 9/11 event.

Its like they lack any ability to understand that the world does *not* revolve around them, and if they don't believe something (There were burned bodies strapped to airline seats in the Pentagon because there are photographs of them because events such as that are completely and totally documented by photographs), then somehow that is a "Big Deal".

I could not care less what this rabbit or any of them care about that. I could not care less what Cap't Bobby and his band of foolish morons think just because the FBI or NTSB or FAA does not show them documented/photographic evidence of aircraft part serial numbers or maintenance records.

They are insignificant bits of human phlegm on the surface of the earth, and what they think about 9/11 because they are not shown every piece of evidence matters less than how an outhouse works and humors me to no end.

[twinstead]

They wouldn't be burned when they put them there. They would have gotten burned when the craft crashed. It wouldn't have been impossible to put a few bodies strapped into plane seats in an office during the night.

In this link there's a documentary called "Painful Deceptions".
http://www.question911.com/linksall.htm

In the last five minutes of part one this issue is discussed and it fits the scenario of the plane's being too small to be a 757.

:boggled:

[Sabrina]

They wouldn't be burned when they put them there. They would have gotten burned when the craft crashed. It wouldn't have been impossible to put a few bodies strapped into plane seats in an office during the night.

In this link there's a documentary called "Painful Deceptions".
http://www.question911.com/linksall.htm

In the last five minutes of part one this issue is discussed and it fits the scenario of the plane's being too small to be a 757.

EVERY OFFICE IN THAT PART OF THE BUILDING WAS OCCUPIED. There was nowhere to stash a couple of bodies strapped in a plane seat! Your delusions are growing exponentially.

There was a 757. It hit the Pentagon. There may or may not have been bodies still strapped in a plane seat discovered (the subject is up for debate, seeing as how no photographic evidence has ever been introduced on the web). But the bodies were all positively identified as either passengers on Flight 77 or workers in the Pentagon. Your speculative presentations there make no difference to the FACTS of the case.

[FatFreddy88]

EVERY OFFICE IN THAT PART OF THE BUILDING WAS OCCUPIED.
I wasn't there so all I know is what I read but there are sources that say that part of the building was being renovated at the time of the crash and every office wasn't occupied.
http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/analysis/location.html
(excerpt)
----------------------------------------------------
The fact that the attack targeted the one portion of the building that was mostly vacant is all the more remarkable considering the approach required by the aircraft blamed for the damage
----------------------------------------------------

The bottom line is that none of us is in a postion to know how much activity there was when the crash happened but it's perfectly plausible that they stashed a few bodies strapped into plane seats into a closed area the night before the crash.

You don't seem to have checked out the video I mentioned in my last post.

[newton3376]

Yeah, I started work with a company a few years ago that's part of the Industrial Military Complex. It was a bit of a shock to come in early one day and find a couple of bodies propped up in chairs in the office, but my manager popped in and explained that it was all part of the drill for when the NWO wanted to launch a false flag op.

I got talking to the couriers who bring the bodies in past security and they just pick 'em up at the morgue and bring them in a van now and again. It's surprising just how many people donate their bodies to the NWO rather than medical science.

All the logs and DNA and work records are all changed to make it look like these people work in the same office as me even though I've never seen them before.

Yeah.....I remember the first time I saw a couple of bodies propped up at work....I have to admit...it was a bit disconcerting at first, but you get used to it.

Now I just work around them and try to make sure they are in the optimal positions in case the NWO calls in a false flag attack....

***********Meanwhile........back in reality.....************


FatFreddy88:

STOP BEING STUPID

[tsig]

They wouldn't be burned when they put them there. They would have gotten burned when the craft crashed. It wouldn't have been impossible to put a few bodies strapped into plane seats in an office during the night.

In this link there's a documentary called "Painful Deceptions".
http://www.question911.com/linksall.htm

In the last five minutes of part one this issue is discussed and it fits the scenario of the plane's being too small to be a 757.

The night janitors would have noticed a few dead bodies laying around.

[Dash80]

They wouldn't be burned when they put them there. They would have gotten burned when the craft crashed. It wouldn't have been impossible to put a few bodies strapped into plane seats in an office during the night.

What the Deuce?
You don't think the Pentagon workers noticed a bunch of bodies hanging around the office when they arrived the next morning?


This is STUPID!

[beachnut]

They wouldn't be burned when they put them there. They would have gotten burned when the craft crashed. It wouldn't have been impossible to put a few bodies strapped into plane seats in an office during the night. ...
What an idiotic claim. All the bodies were identified, all were alive that morning. Failure comes quick and often for people with moronic lies. Do you try to avoid reality, the DNA proves your moronic statement delusional.

[CurtC]

I'm trying to figure out this scenario that FatFreddy's proposing.

The NWO got some dead human bodies, from somewhere. Where do you go to get dead bodies? And they strapped them into airliner seats, and placed them in vacant Pentagon offices the night of September 10. They did this, risking having their whole conspiracy blown by a janitor who happens to open one of those offices, so that a witness the next day would be able to tell reporters that he saw burned corpses still strapped to their seats.

Boy, does the NWO do things the hard way. They could have just paid this witness to lie to the reporters instead! And for what? We skeptics aren't even sure whether to really believe the guy, because it's completely plausible that he was simply mistaken.

[MIKILLINI]

Bodies can be planted and bodies strapped in plane seats can be planted. Those bodies stapped in plane seats don't prove anything. The evidence that the craft that hit the Pentagon was too small to be a 757 is crushing.

I mean they were planted in the Pentagon before the crash.

The fact that you actually consider this as possible goes beyond idiotic; The bar has been set with this post. :eek::jaw-dropp:mad:

[Redtail]

Bodies can be planted and bodies strapped in plane seats can be planted. Those bodies stapped in plane seats don't prove anything. The evidence that the craft that hit the Pentagon was too small to be a 757 is crushing.
http://www.bcrevolution.ca/911_part_iii.htm

More here.
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144746

Edit
-------------

I mean they were planted in the Pentagon before the crash.

... WHAT!?!

Somewhere in the universe, a black hole was created by the sheer density of the stupid in your post

[I Ratant]

I wasn't there so all I know is what I read but there are sources that say that part of the building was being renovated at the time of the crash and every office wasn't occupied.
http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/analysis/location.html
(excerpt)
----------------------------------------------------
The fact that the attack targeted the one portion of the building that was mostly vacant is all the more remarkable considering the approach required by the aircraft blamed for the damage
----------------------------------------------------

The bottom line is that none of us is in a postion to know how much activity there was when the crash happened but it's perfectly plausible that they stashed a few bodies strapped into plane seats into a closed area the night before the crash.

You don't seem to have checked out the video I mentioned in my last post.
.
The box of rocks mentioned in another thread looks better and better with everything you post.
Rocks are far superior, in everything.

[TsuDhoNimh]

It wouldn't have been impossible to put a few bodies strapped into plane seats in an office during the night.

And you don't think that anyone would notice?

BTW, much of the pentagon is a cube farm, not private offices.

[leftysergeant]

Bodies can be planted and bodies strapped in plane seats can be planted. Those bodies stapped in plane seats don't prove anything. The evidence that the craft that hit the Pentagon was too small to be a 757 is crushing.
http://www.bcrevolution.ca/911_part_iii.htm

The moron who posted that went on for some length about the gate box being different in one frame, too tall and with an off-set in the left corner, and that it obscured the place where the aircraft was supposed to be. He assumed, I guess, that the aircraft was small enough to be hidden thus.

Thing is, the "alterations" to the box wereactually parts of the aircraft that could be seen around it.

More here.
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144746

Another moronic mistake. The poster thinks that the trail of smoke or fuel vapor is the aircraft wen, in fact, the aircraft is still above and ahead of that smoke. Totally ignorant.
-------------

I mean they were planted in the Pentagon before the crash.

You still haven't figured out how you cart in that many dead bodies and place them where you need them.

And how do you make sure that all will be damaged by randomily colliding parts flying through the area and then the fireball?

You need to go look at some real crash sites, dude.

[Sabrina]

None of you can claim that Stundie; I already nominated it.

[Craig4]

I wasn't there so all I know is what I read but there are sources that say that part of the building was being renovated at the time of the crash and every office wasn't occupied.
http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/analysis/location.html
(excerpt)
----------------------------------------------------
The fact that the attack targeted the one portion of the building that was mostly vacant is all the more remarkable considering the approach required by the aircraft blamed for the damage
----------------------------------------------------

The bottom line is that none of us is in a postion to know how much activity there was when the crash happened but it's perfectly plausible that they stashed a few bodies strapped into plane seats into a closed area the night before the crash.

You don't seem to have checked out the video I mentioned in my last post.
Do you have evidence that anyone planted bodies? If so present it.

[NobbyNobbs]

[ I wasn't there so all I know is what I read but there are sources that say that part of the building was being renovated at the time of the crash and every office wasn't occupied.
http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/analysis/location.html
(excerpt)
----------------------------------------------------
The fact that the attack targeted the one portion of the building that was mostly vacant is all the more remarkable considering the approach required by the aircraft blamed for the damage
----------------------------------------------------

The bottom line is that none of us is in a postion to know how much activity there was when the crash happened but it's perfectly plausible that they stashed a few bodies strapped into plane seats into a closed area the night before the crash.

You don't seem to have checked out the video I mentioned in my last post.

Did anyone else catch what I've bolded above? I want to rant about the fallacies involved, to protest the injustice being done to the rules of logic and the art of debate, but I'm finding that words fail me. Would someone mind doing it in my stead, so that afterward I can just point and say "This"?

[Dash80]

[

Did anyone else catch what I've bolded above? I want to rant about the fallacies involved, to protest the injustice being done to the rules of logic and the art of debate, but I'm finding that words fail me. Would someone mind doing it in my stead, so that afterward I can just point and say "This"?
FatFreddy is living in lala land, he knowingly spews out blatant lies and distortions... the only person he's convincing is himself. Evidence means nothing to Freddy, making up ridiculous scenarios and lying is all he has to offer. It's boring, we've heard it all before. Arguing with this moron only feeds his ego and imagination even more, trolls like the attention.

[Justin39640]

You keep saying this and I am getting a little bit tired of pointing out I have never said 3000 people dying horribly in New York is funny - any more than I think 10 000 people being fried by American bombs in Libya is noble.

Speaking of which

Apparently, you don't mind using the memories of those people to try to get to others.
http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=7175287&postcount=343
Disgusting.

[Sunstealer]

Interesting inside into what actually happens with regard to identifying individuals post 9/11. Obviously truthers such as FF88 won't read or understand the document but I've linked it for others.


Human Identification in a Post-9/11 World: Attack on American Airlines Flight 77 and the Pentagon Identification and Pathology (http://www.integratedtrainingsummit.org/presentations/2005/266.pdf)

[Sunstealer]

Apparently, you don't mind using the memories of those people to try to get to others.
http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=7175287&postcount=343
Disgusting.Bloody hell, I'm glad I have him on ignore that's just ghoulish. He seems to revel in other peoples suffering.

[newton3376]

Interesting inside into what actually happens with regard to identifying individuals post 9/11. Obviously truthers such as FF88 won't read or understand the document but I've linked it for others.


Human Identification in a Post-9/11 World: Attack on American Airlines Flight 77 and the Pentagon Identification and Pathology (http://www.integratedtrainingsummit.org/presentations/2005/266.pdf)

Good article Sunstealer.

[little grey rabbit]

Interesting inside into what actually happens with regard to identifying individuals post 9/11. Obviously truthers such as FF88 won't read or understand the document but I've linked it for others.


Human Identification in a Post-9/11 World: Attack on American Airlines Flight 77 and the Pentagon Identification and Pathology (http://www.integratedtrainingsummit.org/presentations/2005/266.pdf)

To be strictly accurate this article is misnamed.
It consists of three parts
Part 1: 3 paragraphs that describe the allegation of a plane striking the pentagon and a boast about the number of DNA identifications but without any corroborating details
Part 2: Is 7 pages of general and doubtless excellent advice as to how to handle a major catastrophe - but without any tie in whatsoever to the Pentagon
Part 3: Is a list of the passengers of AA-77 and the victims of the Pentagon.

Don't get me wrong, the advice given in part 2 looks sound, but is striking for its complete lack of any concrete illustrations from the experience allegedly derived from the Pentagon site.

However, this is one section of relevance to our little discussion

Photography
All remains are photographed “as is” at this point. All accession number are
double-checked.


The extraordinary photograph presented here earlier should be documented, it should have an accession number and it should be correlated to an identity. All these records should be archived as should those of Shanksville

But who is our mysterious burnt body? Inquiring minds would like to know.

[newton3376]

To be strictly accurate this article is misnamed.
It consists of three parts
Part 1: 3 paragraphs that describe the allegation of a plane striking the pentagon and a boast about the number of DNA identifications but without any corroborating details
Part 2: Is 7 pages of general and doubtless excellent advice as to how to handle a major catastrophe - but without any tie in whatsoever to the Pentagon
Part 3: Is a list of the passengers of AA-77 and the victims of the Pentagon.

Don't get me wrong, the advice given in part 2 looks sound, but is striking for its complete lack of any concrete illustrations from the experience allegedly derived from the Pentagon site.

However, this is one section of relevance to our little discussion



The extraordinary photograph presented here earlier should be documented, it should have an accession number and it should be correlated to an identity. All these records should be archived as should those of Shanksville

But who is our mysterious burnt body? Inquiring minds would like to know.

That isn't something you need to know.

You are a nobody. Your curiosity isn't good enough. I'm sure you are curious about all kinds of matters that are personal, proprietary, or classified.....no one cares.

[BCR]

But who is our mysterious burnt body? Inquiring minds would like to know.

No they don't. Do you think I want to know exactly who the little girl's hand found in the debris belonged to? If that was your loved one strapped in a chair, do you really think you would want to know that?

We don't need to know what photograph or what body part belongs to who. Show a little respect to those who lost loved ones. A list of those who were identified will suffice.

[little grey rabbit]

Yeah.....I remember the first time I saw a couple of bodies propped up at work....I have to admit...it was a bit disconcerting at first, but you get used to it.

Now I just work around them and try to make sure they are in the optimal positions in case the NWO calls in a false flag attack....

***********Meanwhile........back in reality.....************


FatFreddy88:

STOP BEING STUPID

Its not just dead bodies either, a lot of live bodies have been planted at various government locations.

For example this pair are two of the brightest minds at the Department of Homeland Security
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e9/Figuren.jpg/220px-Figuren.jpg

Observant JREF members may notice they appear to be completely lacking clothes

[little grey rabbit]

No they don't. Do you think I want to know exactly who the little girl's hand found in the debris belonged to? If that was your loved one strapped in a chair, do you really think you would want to know that?

We don't need to know what photograph or what body part belongs to who. Show a little respect to those who lost loved ones. A list of those who were identified will suffice.

A good argument if you don't flash corpses on the Internet - but that was your decision not mine. What unbelievably hypocrisy to wave around photographs and then prance about claiming moral superiority when the stupid lie is in danger of exposure.

If you are going to present evidence at a trial, it requires proper documentation and proper chain of custody

[newton3376]

Its not just dead bodies either, a lot of live bodies have been planted at various government locations.

Observant JREF members may notice they appear to be completely lacking clothes

Try to not be stupid.....I know it's difficult....but at least try.

[BCR]

A good argument if you don't flash corpses on the Internet - but that was your decision not mine. What unbelievably hypocrisy to waving around photographs and then prance around claiming moral superiority when the stupid lie is in danger of exposure.

If you are going to present evidence at a trial, it requires proper documentation and proper chain of custody

What the hell are you talking about?

[little grey rabbit]

What the hell are you talking about?

Oh my, it is so difficult having a vaguely intelligent discussion with an American. The simplest concepts must be explained.

Oh well, here we go

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chain_of_custody

[BCR]

Oh my, it is so difficult having a vaguely intelligent discussion with an American. The simplest concepts must be explained.

Oh well, here we go

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chain_of_custody

You don't have to explain chain of custody to me since I spent 12 years in police work and have testified/presented evidence in more cases than I can even remember. I am referring to your argument specifically directed at me in regards to posting bodies of people on the internet. Any that have been presented in court did follow the "chain of custody" and federal rules of evidence. So again, what the hell are you talking about?

[little grey rabbit]

You don't have to explain chain of custody to me since I spent 12 years in police work and have testified/presented evidence in more cases than I can even remember. I am referring to your argument specifically directed at me in regards to posting bodies of people on the internet. Any that have been presented in court did follow the "chain of custody" and federal rules of evidence. So again, what the hell are you talking about?

Great, then anyone who wants to should be examine the records of the case and determine the supposed identity of that......whatever you like to call it.

And until demonstrated otherwise I think we are on safe grounds that person who originally posted that photo knew what he was talking about and that .....whatever you like to call it ..... is supposed to have been aboard the aircraft.

[twinstead]

Oh my, it is so difficult having a vaguely intelligent discussion with an American. The simplest concepts must be explained.

Oh well, here we go

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chain_of_custody

It's even harder having a vaguely intelligent conversation with a holocaust denier.

If only you showed the same skepticism towards things that support your world view. Where are these complaints when WTC Dust is droning on about her dust samples, for example?

[BCR]

Great, then anyone who wants to should be examine the records of the case and determine the supposed identity of that......whatever you like to call it.

And until demonstrated otherwise I think we are on safe grounds that person who originally posted that photo knew what he was talking about and that .....whatever you like to call it ..... is supposed to have been aboard the aircraft.

Wrong bozo. It is not necessary to identify the person's body the picture is of under the rules of evidence. All that is necessary is to establish the location of the photograph and affirmation of the person who took the photograph at that location.

Side note: This discussion brings to mind a case I worked back in the late 90's. A couple of individuals were caught shoplifting in the General Store in Yosemite Valley. I took custody of the suspects and one of the items was a steak. I bagged it and sealed it with my mark, but of course it was quite ripe by the time we made it to court a number of months later, so the Judge ordered us to take a photo of it and present it as evidence instead. At this point, the female defendant jumped up and screamed, "That is not the steak we stole! We ate the steak that we stole!" The prosecutor and I simply smiled. Needless to say we won our case :D

[little grey rabbit]

Wrong bozo. It is not necessary to identify the person's body the picture is of under the rules of evidence. All that is necessary is to establish the location of the photograph and affirmation of the person who took the photograph at that location.

Citation?
But whether it is necessary or not, I think we are on safe ground that in this case it was identified and the helpful gentleman who alerted us to its existence also knew it was supposed to represent someone from the aircraft.

And even assuming it was not presented to the court, it must be held in the records of the coroner or autopsy investigations.

[BCR]

Citation?
But whether it is necessary or not, I think we are on safe ground that in this case it was identified and the helpful gentleman who alerted us to its existence also knew it was supposed to represent someone from the aircraft.

And even assuming it was not presented to the court, it must be held in the records of the coroner or autopsy investigations.

I don't need a damn citation. How many cases have you worked in the US court system?

[little grey rabbit]

I don't need a damn citation. How many cases have you worked in the US court system?

I accept your confession of failure.

[BCR]

I accept your confession of failure.

I accept your confession of ignorance. My experience working with the system is documented. You don't go before a judge with internet citations. You study the Federal Rules of Evidence (My own copy is with commentary, by Weissenberger and Duane, 4th Ed.). Those rules can even vary among Courts and localities, so you have to become familiar with those laid out in that particular District. Darn, even Judges have their own peculiarities. By you not understanding that, you are displaying a complete ignorance of the US system.

[BaaBaa]

Bodies can be planted and bodies strapped in plane seats can be planted. Those bodies stapped in plane seats don't prove anything. The evidence that the craft that hit the Pentagon was too small to be a 757 is crushing.
http://www.bcrevolution.ca/911_part_iii.htm

More here.
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144746

Edit
-------------

I mean they were planted in the Pentagon before the crash.

Your proof is as compelling as your Apollo evidence.

[FatFreddy88]

As I said before, I'm not in a position to verify what I read but there seem to be a lot of sources that say the part of the Pentagon that was hit was under renovation at the time. Don't you people think that there's a chance that might be true? If it was under renovation, it would have been possible to put a few dead bodies strapped in plane seats and a few 757 plane parts in a section walled off with sheet rock the day before the crash.

Start watching this at the 32:00 time mark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_q6j6BZkHQ

An explanation for the identification of the bodies is put forth.

You people have authoritative patronizing attitudes but what you're actually saying is very weak.

Your proof is as compelling as your Apollo evidence.
People can look at it and judge for themselves.
http://www.politicalforum.com/moon-landing/190138-apollo-moon-missions-were-faked-studio.html

[Azrael 5]

As I said before, I'm not in a position to verify what I read
So dont post lunatic theories then.
but there seem to be a lot of sources that say the part of the Pentagon that was hit was under renovation at the time. Don't you people think that there's a chance that might be true If it was under renovation, it would have been possible to put a few dead bodies strapped in plane seats and a few 757 plane parts in a section walled off with sheet rock the day before the crash.Are you taking drugs? This wins the award for most insane bag of BS ive ever heard on any topic.


Start watching this at the 32:00 time mark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_q6j6BZkHQ

An explanation for the identification of the bodies is put forth.

You people have authoritative patronizing attitudes but what you're actually saying is very weak.Linking to a video that puts forth a theory passengers were put in a room and blown up and you call our posts weak? Irony alert.


People can look at it and judge for themselves.
http://www.politicalforum.com/moon-landing/190138-apollo-moon-missions-were-faked-studio.html
Have you ever visited reality? Seems "Scott'" 's opinions hold as much interest as yours on that forum.

[TheRedWorm]

As I said before, I'm not in a position to verify what I read but there seem to be a lot of sources that say the part of the Pentagon that was hit was under renovation at the time. Don't you people think that there's a chance that might be true? If it was under renovation, it would have been possible to put a few dead bodies strapped in plane seats and a few 757 plane parts in a section walled off with sheet rock the day before the crash.

<Snip links>



No. In fact, I think your supposition is only slightly less insane than an eight foot tall purple bunny beating a dinosaur to death with a motorized mustache trimmer.

ETA: Quote

[Azrael 5]

The real explanation for the identification of bodies
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7585513#post7585513

[Dash80]

As I said before, I'm not in a position to verify what I read but there seem to be a lot of sources that say the part of the Pentagon that was hit was under renovation at the time. Don't you people think that there's a chance that might be true? If it was under renovation, it would have been possible to put a few dead bodies strapped in plane seats and a few 757 plane parts in a section walled off with sheet rock the day before the crash.

The renovations were mostly complete, plenty of people were back in their offices.


Passengers and crew's bodies smuggled in the night before? Some of who were last seen before they boarded the plane on the morning of September 11? You are beyond deluded.

Stop. With. The. Stupidity.

[MIKILLINI]

Don't you people think that there's a chance that might be true? If it was under renovation, it would have been possible to put a few dead bodies strapped in plane seats and a few 757 plane parts in a section walled off with sheet rock the day before the crash.

Using wishful thinking coupled with imagination can make possible the impossible.
Now use reality and evidence to check the probability of the impossibility in this ridiculous scenario.

You people have authoritative patronizing attitudes but what you're actually saying is very weak.

People here have been showing provable evidence to truthers for years Freddy. The evidence truthers are bringing here has been the same rehashing of the same circumstantial anomilies over and over again. If you believe that what is shown to you is weak, then your research dilligence has been lazy and you're not skeptical enough. As P.T. Barnum has said: "There's a sucker born every minute".

[George152]

You don't have to explain chain of custody to me since I spent 12 years in police work and have testified/presented evidence in more cases than I can even remember. I am referring to your argument specifically directed at me in regards to posting bodies of people on the internet. Any that have been presented in court did follow the "chain of custody" and federal rules of evidence. So again, what the hell are you talking about?

Maybe what some-one should do is take the little grey rabbit along to a fatal car crash and let him do all the initial investigative work after he has completed the body recoveries.
Just so he can claim that he knows about 'chain of custody'

[little grey rabbit]

Maybe what some-one should do is take the little grey rabbit along to a fatal car crash and let him do all the initial investigative work after he has completed the body recoveries.
Just so he can claim that he knows about 'chain of custody'

Have you performed such duties?

Can I ask your professional opinion about the photo presented by a member as being a burnt corpse from the aircraft?

Thanking you in advance.

[MIKILLINI]

If you are going to present evidence at a trial, it requires proper documentation and proper chain of custody

Instead of opinion and baseless accusations which is where truthers tend to reside. :rolleyes:

[Woody-]

This might be a stupid question but even if the government/NWO/etc was behind it wouldn't it be less risky to but the bodies on the airplane and actually crash it into the building instead of going through all the steps it would take to plant the bodies and fake the plane crash.

[Myriad]

This might be a stupid question but even if the government/NWO/etc was behind it wouldn't it be less risky to but the bodies on the airplane and actually crash it into the building instead of going through all the steps it would take to plant the bodies and fake the plane crash.


Of course.

Some Truther claims are almost plausible if you don't know any better, most are absurd but at least comprehensible, and a few are on the level of "When I woke up this morning, someone had stolen all my dishes and replaced them with exact duplicates." The claims in this thread fall into the latter category.

Respectfully,
Myriad

[beachnut]

Is this true - that bodies were found in the Pentagon still strapped to aircraft seats? Why was this not seen at Shanksville?

Or it is not true what was Robbyn Swan's motivations for saying this?


You ask a lot of questions. Does it matter if it was a person from 77, or someone in their office chair burned up in the Pentagon? How does it change 19 terrorists doing 911? It does not.

http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/photos/index.html

It might be more likely for bodies to be found in the Pentagon than with Flight 93 due to what each plane hit. Both planes hit near the same speed, but at the Pentagon there are parts of the Pentagon which let parts of 77 to pass through sections. In Pa, the ground stops the plane dead in 25 to 40 feet in the ground, how far into the Pentagon did 77 go? It is not surprising to see things survive in any impact, even high speed impacts. The bodies look like they might be Pentagon personnel except the small parts.

[MIKILLINI]

This might be a stupid question but even if the government/NWO/etc was behind it wouldn't it be less risky to but the bodies on the airplane and actually crash it into the building instead of going through all the steps it would take to plant the bodies and fake the plane crash.

That's just a plain common sense assessment, but a very difficult one for truthers to make once they're deep into conspiracy theories. Another simple fact they won't, or don't like to accept is that they're in a movement with a less than 1% support. Conspiracy sites is where they spend most of their time in the beginning and then go to places like JREF to make arguments. You can see how stubborn and biased they are, even when logic and evidence smack them right in the face.:rolleyes:

[little grey rabbit]

Of course.

Some Truther claims are almost plausible if you don't know any better, most are absurd but at least comprehensible, and a few are on the level of "When I woke up this morning, someone had stolen all my dishes and replaced them with exact duplicates." The claims in this thread fall into the latter category.

Respectfully,
Myriad

Not exactly, Myriad.
It is more like "When I woke up this morning, someone had stolen all my royal dalton china and replaced it with some laughably cheap bakelite look-not-very-alike copies"

[FatFreddy88]

The real explanation for the identification of bodies
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7585513#post7585513
I think you made a mistake here. The link doesn't lead to any info about the bodies.

The renovations were mostly complete, plenty of people were back in their offices.
Tell us how you're in a position to know exactly what was happening the day before the crash. It also could have been done during the night.

Passengers and crew's bodies smuggled in the night before? Some of who were last seen before they boarded the plane on the morning of September 11? You are beyond deluded.
The theory is that the bodies they stashed were not those of the people on flight 77; they would have been burned beyond recognition by anything but DNA tests so it would have been possible to put a few bodies of anonymous people in the Pentagon the night before.

You people have attitudes but you haven't posted anything that debunks the theory that bodies and plane parts could have been planted before the crash.

Here's the second edition of Painful Deceptions in case anyone hasn't seen it yet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5wkyEDIxTk

[Dash80]

I think you made a mistake here. The link doesn't lead to any info about the bodies.


Tell us how you're in a position to know exactly what was happening the day before the crash. It also could have been done during the night.


The theory is that the bodies they stashed were not those of the people on flight 77; they would have been burned beyond recognition by anything but DNA tests so it would have been possible to put a few bodies of anonymous people in the Pentagon the night before.

You people have attitudes but you haven't posted anything that debunks the theory that bodies and plane parts could have been planted before the crash.

Here's the second edition of Painful Deceptions in case anyone hasn't seen it yet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5wkyEDIxTk
The bodies WERE IDENTIFIED, and they matched those on the plane.

Just. Shut. Up.

[BCR]

You people have attitudes but you haven't posted anything that debunks the theory that bodies and plane parts could have been planted before the crash.

Several key points. First, the section was NOT under renovation. The renovation was complete and people were moving back into the area. So the conception that it was full of empty space where a stinky corpse could be concealed is simply misguided.

The "theory" requires no "debunking" any more than the tooth fairy does. It is built on no evidence .... zero, ziltch, nada. Delusional people can believe anything they want, but that does not make it a theory. A theory is a model based on evidence. Like the tooth fairy, there is no evidence upon which it is built to examine. Quite the contrary, there is more evidence for the tooth fairy than there is this delusion. At least when a child puts his/her tooth under their pillow it is gone the next morning and a silver coin in its place.

[FatFreddy88]

The bodies WERE IDENTIFIED, and they matched those on the plane.

Just. Shut. Up.
You didn't address the theory put forth in the documentary "PainFul Deceptions". Look at the 44:00 time mark. It's in my last post.

If you don't say something that actually debunks it, it remains plausible.

stinky corpse could be concealed
Are you saying the CIA couldn't find some fresh corpses? Are you saying they couldn't have been planted at night and walled up in a space behind some sheetrock?

[deeper]

If you don't say something that actually debunks it, it remains plausible.

What do you think, a 50/50 chance?

[Dash80]

You didn't address the theory put forth in the documentary "PainFul Deceptions". Look at the 44:00 time mark. It's in my last post.

If you don't say something that actually debunks it, it remains plausible.
I refuse to wade through a long video full of crap. Can you provide a summary?

Hey Freddy, right now there are 17 pink pigs flying around outside my window. Debunk it or it remains plausible.

[BCR]

Are you saying the CIA couldn't find some fresh corpses? Are you saying they couldn't have been planted at night and walled up in a space behind some sheetrock?

No, I'm saying you have NO EVIDENCE that they did.

[DGM]

Not exactly, Myriad.
It is more like "When I woke up this morning, someone had stolen all my royal dalton china and replaced it with some laughably cheap bakelite look-not-very-alike copies"
And your insurance company wants you to prove you originally had Royal Dalton china but, "the dog ate your receipts".

:rolleyes:

[Sabrina]

I think you made a mistake here. The link doesn't lead to any info about the bodies.


Tell us how you're in a position to know exactly what was happening the day before the crash. It also could have been done during the night.


The theory is that the bodies they stashed were not those of the people on flight 77; they would have been burned beyond recognition by anything but DNA tests so it would have been possible to put a few bodies of anonymous people in the Pentagon the night before.

You people have attitudes but you haven't posted anything that debunks the theory that bodies and plane parts could have been planted before the crash.

Here's the second edition of Painful Deceptions in case anyone hasn't seen it yet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5wkyEDIxTk

Are you familiar at all with the phrase "24 hour operations"? The Pentagon is not a normal office building where people come in for eight hours and then go home, leaving only the security guards; it is open 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, even on holidays, for watch operation purposes. The Naval Operations Center was in the area struck by the plane; an operations center, in military parlance, implies 24 hour operations. In other words, THERE WERE PEOPLE IN THE WING ALL NIGHT LONG.

I'm in the military, FatFreddy; so I can speak with a good amount of authority to this. What exactly is your expertise in the area? Or is it just, "I saw it on the Internetz, so it must be twoooo!" :rolleyes:

[Azrael 5]

I think you made a mistake here. The link doesn't lead to any info about the bodies.




Apologies dont know what I did. Here is correct link http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=armed_forces_dna_identification_ laboratory_1

[FatFreddy88]

Are you familiar at all with the phrase "24 hour operations"? The Pentagon is not a normal office building where people come in for eight hours and then go home, leaving only the security guards; it is open 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, even on holidays, for watch operation purposes. The Naval Operations Center was in the area struck by the plane; an operations center, in military parlance, implies 24 hour operations. In other words, THERE WERE PEOPLE IN THE WING ALL NIGHT LONG.

I'm in the military, FatFreddy; so I can speak with a good amount of authority to this. What exactly is your expertise in the area? Or is it just, "I saw it on the Internetz, so it must be twoooo!"
There is proof that a 757 didn't hit the Pentagon so this issue is about how they did it. It's not about whether they did it.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144746

You weren't there and there was a renovation going on. We have no idea what was going on there so the idea that a few bodies strapped in plane seats were planted the night before remains plausible.

The theory put forth in "Painful Deceptions" is consistent with this document.
http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=armed_forces_dna_identification_ laboratory_1

The people at Dover had no way of knowing where they came from. We also can't trust documents as the people who write them can lie.

[BCR]

There is proof that a 757 didn't hit the Pentagon so this issue is about how they did it. It's not about whether they did it.


No sir, there is NO proof or evidence "that a 757 didn't hit the Pentagon". Quite the contrary, there is overwhelming evidence that a very specific 757 hit the Pentagon. American Airlines flight 77.

[Dash80]

There is proof that a 757 didn't hit the Pentagon so this issue is about how they did it. It's not about whether they did it.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144746

You weren't there and there was a renovation going on. We have no idea what was going on there so the idea that a few bodies strapped in plane seats were planted the night before remains plausible.

The theory put forth in "Painful Deceptions" is consistent with this document.
http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=armed_forces_dna_identification_ laboratory_1

The people at Dover had no way of knowing where they came from. We also can't trust documents as the people who write them can lie.
What the hell was that first link all about?

Lol seriously, typical moron truther... dismiss the evidence as faked because "people can lie"

You're accusing a hell of a lot of people of lying, or "being in on it."


ETA: You weren't there either so how can you know what was going on?

Freddy, 17 pink pigs are still flying around my house... you haven't debunked this yet. So still plausible...

[FatFreddy88]

dismiss the evidence as faked because "people can lie"
You're misrepresenting my position. I'm saying it can't be used as proof as people can lie. I didn't say I was sure it was bogus.

Here's a link to some info on how we're lied to.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4731597&postcount=1090

I'd just post it all here but I've been told not to post lists of links.

[DGM]

Freddy, 17 pink pigs are still flying around my house...

So that's where they went.................................

:boxedin:

[Dash80]

You're misrepresenting my position. I'm saying it can't be used as proof as people can lie. I didn't say I was sure it was bogus.

Here's a link to some info on how we're lied to.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4731597&postcount=1090

I'd just post it all here but I've been told not to post lists of links.
Are you completely incapable of forming your own opinions and arguments without resorting to spamming the thread with (often ridiculous) links?

[Sabrina]

There is proof that a 757 didn't hit the Pentagon so this issue is about how they did it. It's not about whether they did it.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144746

You weren't there and there was a renovation going on. We have no idea what was going on there so the idea that a few bodies strapped in plane seats were planted the night before remains plausible.

The theory put forth in "Painful Deceptions" is consistent with this document.
http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=armed_forces_dna_identification_ laboratory_1

The people at Dover had no way of knowing where they came from. We also can't trust documents as the people who write them can lie.

No, it does NOT remain plausible, unless you plan on accusing members of the military who take an oath to protect the citizens of this country with being "in on it".

The Pentagon is the headquarters for all DoD operations; as such, it is filled primarily with military members. People who, by and large, would not participate in such a horrific attack on the United States, because it would violate their oaths. We take those very seriously, trust me.

And oddly enough, the Pentagon renovations were largely finished on the morning of 9/11; here's a link, from a TRUTHER SITE no less, that proves this:

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/911_pentagon_renovations.html

On Sept. 11, the contract officially complete, Fraunfelter was finishing up a few last punch-list items. He arrived on-site at 7 a.m. to prepare for an 8 a.m. tenant meeting. It was a routine job-completion task, a meeting where tenants handed over a list of final fix-it items: touch-up painting, leaking pipes, etc. [MSNBC]

I highlighted the important parts for you. The renovations were pretty much DONE on that section of the building on 9/11. The offices were all open for business. Not to mention, renovations in a government facility mean that only small sections are done at a time, because operations MUST BE KEPT ONGOING at all times. Yes, there were not as MANY people working in that area as there would have normally been prior to the renovations, but people were still working there, and as I said, there was an operations center for the Navy in that wing that would have required 24 hour operations. Your theory is ludicrous and utterly unsupportable.

[newton3376]

There is proof that a 757 didn't hit the Pentagon so this issue is about how they did it. It's not about whether they did it.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144746

You weren't there and there was a renovation going on. We have no idea what was going on there so the idea that a few bodies strapped in plane seats were planted the night before remains plausible.

The theory put forth in "Painful Deceptions" is consistent with this document.
http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=armed_forces_dna_identification_ laboratory_1

The people at Dover had no way of knowing where they came from. We also can't trust documents as the people who write them can lie.

Freddy.....first some advise....

Maybe stop implying that groups of people (like the US military) are "liars" or can not be trusted. That is ridiculously offensive...I am a US Army Iraq war Veteran myself.....so..... please don't do that.

Second...saying it "remains" plausible is simply your wishful thinking. What evidence do you have that it is plausible? Many of the folks at the Pentagon were members of the Intelligence community...if you think someone could plant bodies without them noticing....well...yeah....that is bizarre.

I'll be the first one to admit that our Intel community had issues in 2001...and still has many of those same issues today in 2011....but not noticing BODIES BEING PLANTED? Cmon man....

Get real.

[Craig4]

There is proof that a 757 didn't hit the Pentagon so this issue is about how they did it. It's not about whether they did it.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144746

You weren't there and there was a renovation going on. We have no idea what was going on there so the idea that a few bodies strapped in plane seats were planted the night before remains plausible.

The theory put forth in "Painful Deceptions" is consistent with this document.
http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=armed_forces_dna_identification_ laboratory_1

The people at Dover had no way of knowing where they came from. We also can't trust documents as the people who write them can lie.

So you have proof the documents are forgeries? How about proof that the bodies strapped in the seats were not the ticketed passengers?

Who are "they"? Tell me about "They". Who is it that is part of this conspiracy? What evidence do you have. Forget about what could have happened and tell us what did happen.

[Craig4]

You're misrepresenting my position. I'm saying it can't be used as proof as people can lie. I didn't say I was sure it was bogus.

Here's a link to some info on how we're lied to.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4731597&postcount=1090

I'd just post it all here but I've been told not to post lists of links.

Did they lie? Show us your proof. No one is a liar until you catch them in a lie.

[FatFreddy88]

Maybe stop implying that groups of people (like the US military) are "liars" or can not be trusted. That is ridiculously offensive...I am a US Army Iraq war Veteran myself.....so..... please don't do that.


Americans get an upside-down version of what's happening in the world. Most of the lower-level soldiers have good intentions but believe lies. Most of the higher ups know what's going on though.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145531

[Dash80]

Americans get an upside-down version of what's happening in the world. Most of the lower-level soldiers have good intentions but believe lies. Most of the higher ups know what's going on though.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145531
What the hell is this?
Now you're just spamming. Can't you post anything without the obscure links?

Freddy, the bodies inside the Pentagon were all identified, the flight 77 passengers are accounted for.

The evidence supports flight 77 hitting the Pentagon, witnesses support flight 77 hitting the pentagon. The bodies and debris support flight 77 hitting the pentagon.

Stop Spamming garbage and tell us in your own words how this incredible planting of bodies was accomplished.

[brazenlilraisin]

royal dalton china

Royal Dalton, lulz

http://forums.randi.org/picture.php?albumid=633&pictureid=5024

Do you get anything right, ever?

[twinstead]

Freddy, the bodies inside the Pentagon were all identified, the flight 77 passengers are accounted for.

The evidence supports flight 77 hitting the Pentagon, witnesses support flight 77 hitting the pentagon. The bodies and debris support flight 77 hitting the pentagon.


Yes, Freddy. Please do us a favor and provide ANY evidence that ANY of this evidence was planted or faked. Thanks in advance.

[MIKILLINI]

You didn't address the theory put forth in the documentary "PainFul Deceptions". Look at the 44:00 time mark. It's in my last post.

If you don't say something that actually debunks it, it remains plausible.


Are you saying the CIA couldn't find some fresh corpses? Are you saying they couldn't have been planted at night and walled up in a space behind some sheetrock?

Freddy, can't you see how more ridiculous that story becomes when you're attempting, with no evidence, to fill the holes in that theory?

[cntdrv55]

What the hell is this?
Now you're just spamming. Can't you post anything without the obscure links?


No, he can't actually. He has done this on about 15 different forums and he gets owned on every single one of them. One guy repeated all of his so called "work", got completely different numbers than he did for the pentagon measurements, posted screenshots as proof, and ol' Freddy (cosmo) just spammed his original link over and over again in response.

Seriously don't even bother... I have never seen a more closed-minded individual than this one.

[Sabrina]

Americans get an upside-down version of what's happening in the world. Most of the lower-level soldiers have good intentions but believe lies. Most of the higher ups know what's going on though.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145531

Wow.

I think you have got to be one of the most misinformed persons on the PLANET when it comes to how the military works.

Don't tell me; you tried to get in and ended up rejected, so now you're on a vendetta against them?

Any officer worth their salt knows that the enlisted soldiers are the backbone of the military; without them, nothing gets done. The SOLDIERS are the ones who are regularly put in harms way; do you honestly think they're going to risk their own lives based on a lie? You aren't fit to shine their boots, my friend.

[leftysergeant]

You're misrepresenting my position. I'm saying it can't be used as proof as people can lie. I didn't say I was sure it was bogus.

Here's a link to some info on how we're lied to.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4731597&postcount=1090

All of it pulled out of someone's ass.

The illustration of what the moron thought the 757 should have looked like is out of scale and the aircraft is pointed well to the left of the fire station.
Childish garbage.

And, of course the plane did not fit behind the box. It showed all around the top of it, and the idiot analysing the picture called it a photoshopping of the box.

Don't even get me started on how that drooling imbecile who showed how the plane hit the wall got both wings hitting at the same height from the ground when anybody with an IQ over fifty would know that a plane described as being in a left bank would print ther facade about where you see the limestone sheathing knocked off on the second floor.

Just the fact that the wings of a 757 have a positive dihedral would make that imaginary impact point impossible.

I can only conclude that whoever drew that based it on Bunel's BS.

[leftysergeant]

Are you saying the CIA couldn't find some fresh corpses? Are you saying they couldn't have been planted at night and walled up in a space behind some sheetrock?

No. The fire department would want to know why there were unburnt bodies squished behind the sheetrock.

There just is not any place to hide all of that aircraft deberis of which we see photos and video footage. The morning shift had been there for HOURS before the attack and would have noticed something.

Your fantasies are as childish as your screen name would suggest.

[bikerdruid]

did they actually find burned bodies strapped to seats?
pardon the dumb question....

[Sabrina]

did they actually find burned bodies strapped to seats?
pardon the dumb question....

There's an eyewitness report from one of the first responders stating such, but no definitive proof of it. No photos or corroborating stories, as far as I'm aware. So the answer is, it's possible, but entirely unknown.

[little grey rabbit]

There's an eyewitness report from one of the first responders stating such, but no definitive proof of it. No photos or corroborating stories, as far as I'm aware. So the answer is, it's possible, but entirely unknown.

Robbyn Swan, co-author of The Eleventh Day: The Full Story of 9/11 and Osama bin Laden, told the Guardian: "I invite anyone who believes that to talk to the many eyewitnesses who saw the plane approach and hit the Pentagon. I invite them to look, as I have done, at the absolutely horrific photographs of the burned bodies of the victims of flight 77 still strapped into their plane seats that were found amongst the ruins of the Pentagon."

Which raises the question of what it was that Robbyn Swan was looking at - and what sort of photographs do exist of people from flight 77.

Still unanswered.

[Sabrina]

:rolleyes:

Ever heard of hyperbole, LGR? How do you know Swan wasn't employing it?

Regardless, my point still stands; we have an eyewitness account that says there are photos. We don't have the photos themselves. Therefore, the account is plausible, but the actual truth is entirely unknown.

For the last time, what is your POINT in all of this, besides prurient curiosity or a malicious attempt to bring further pain upon the family members?

[little grey rabbit]

:rolleyes:

Ever heard of hyperbole, LGR? How do you know Swan wasn't employing it?



So what part was hyperbole?

Seeing photographs? Or seeing photographs of bodies obviously from flight 77?

As to my interest I have always made it completely clear. I have information that demonstrates beyond any doubt that Flight 77 did not crash into the Pentagon. Ergo, every piece of evidence that disputes this must either be misinterpreted or falsified.

I am interested as to extent each of these techniques were used. My initial reaction on reading Swan's claim was exactly yours - hyperbole or false claim - without any underlying artefacts. However it has become obvious that this is probably not the case and we need to look at explanations involving falsification of evidence.

[Sabrina]

Oh you have information that proves Flight 77 didn't crash into the Pentagon?

Post it then. Quit sidestepping around the issue and bloody well POST IT. If you have anything new aside from the usual truther drivel, I'll be shocked.

[little grey rabbit]

Oh you have information that proves Flight 77 didn't crash into the Pentagon?

Post it then.

Its not a priority for me at the moment. I never object when Americans kill other Americans. On the contrary, I wish they would stick exclusively just to bombing Americans, they seem to do it so well.

I am interested in the status of the individual pieces of supposedly corroborating evidence to see if I can determine its origins.

The subject here is the existence of photos allegedly of people strapped to aircraft seats and/or photos of burnt bodies definitively from AA-77 - do they exist and what do they show. Discuss it or don't discuss it as you please. But if you don't have anything to add there is no obligation to post here

[TheRedWorm]

Its not a priority for me at the moment....<snip>...


Of course its not. Your only priority here is trolling.

[MIKILLINI]

Its not a priority for me at the moment.

Translation: I don't have any evidence of that kind.

[Sabrina]

Its not a priority for me at the moment. I never object when Americans kill other Americans. On the contrary, I wish they would stick exclusively just to bombing Americans, they seem to do it so well.

I am interested in the status of the individual pieces of supposedly corroborating evidence to see if I can determine its origins.

The subject here is the existence of photos allegedly of people strapped to aircraft seats and/or photos of burnt bodies definitively from AA-77 - do they exist and what do they show. Discuss it or don't discuss it as you please. But if you don't have anything to add there is no obligation to post here

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTQXS-u9BalixDYLH0ruNeDiNeOWPn0Hpopp-nRyV2eKGPGpYaZOVH2ZyDH

[Justin39640]

translation: I don't have any evidence of that any kind.

ftfy

[cntdrv55]

All of it pulled out of someone's ass.

The illustration of what the moron thought...

Childish garbage.

...and the idiot analysing the picture...

Don't even get me started on how that drooling imbecile...

...anybody with an IQ over fifty...

I can only conclude that whoever drew that based it on Bunel's BS.

lol. Just as a heads up, ol' Freddy here is the OP from the basketball forum thread. Would hate to see him not get the proper love he deserves.

[little grey rabbit]

Translation: I don't have any evidence of that kind.

What on earth would be the point with sharing such evidence with the likes of you? TBH I have nothing against presenting it, I just can't be bothered bringing it together and uploading it.

Is it not written: It is wrong to throw pearls before the swine.

[Sabrina]

What on earth would be the point with sharing such evidence with the likes of you? TBH I have nothing against presenting it, I just can't be bothered bringing it together and uploading it.

Is it not written: It is wrong to throw pearls before the swine.

http://zoomley.com/wp-content/uploads/633607470680331650-trolls-300x240.jpg

[MIKILLINI]

What on earth would be the point with sharing such evidence with the likes of you? TBH I have nothing against presenting it, I just can't be bothered bringing it together and uploading it.

Is it not written: It is wrong to throw pearls before the swine.

The likes of Me(Whom you consider swine) would like to see your "evidence"(More than likely will be "slop" and worthless). Funny that, a holocaust denier throwing out a biblical quote.:rolleyes:

Oh! You can't be bothered bringing it together and uploading it? Don't you have enough time? Are you to busy posting? Is your internet speed and/or computer to slow? Is your mom needing to use the computer? How convenient you make a statement that still translates into no evidence and just plain laziness.

[little grey rabbit]

The likes of Me(Whom you consider swine) would like to see your "evidence"(More than likely will be "slop" and worthless). Funny that, a holocaust denier throwing out a biblical quote.:rolleyes:

Oh! You can't be bothered bringing it together and uploading it? Don't you have enough time? Are you to busy posting? Is your internet speed and/or computer to slow? Is your mom needing to use the computer? How convenient you make a statement that still translates into no evidence and just plain laziness.

No but it takes effort, and where is the reward?

[MIKILLINI]

No but it takes effort, and where is the reward?

You take a lot of effort to argue, but won't make the effort of presenting evidence for your claim;Why would there even be a consideration of a reward? If you got something that is truly substantial and tangible of Flight 77 not crashing into the Pentagon, then turn it over to the Authorities. Why waste any more time posting here?
Until you do anything that would indicate you have something solid, then I don't believe you have anything substantial at all.

[little grey rabbit]

You take a lot of effort to argue, but won't make the effort of presenting evidence for your claim;Why would there even be a consideration of a reward? If you got something that is truly substantial and tangible of Flight 77 not crashing into the Pentagon, then turn it over to the Authorities.

Since the authorities are the same authorities that must have run the 9/11 operation why would I turn anything over to them?

Now if someone has 12 million euros lying around......

[Sabrina]

Ahhh, now we get to the REAL motivation.

LGR's a fame-and-fortune troll. Got it.

[little grey rabbit]

Ahhh, now we get to the REAL motivation.


Think it over Sabrina. I'll ever throw in a couple of bakeries - absolutely gratis.

[MIKILLINI]

Since the authorities are the same authorities that must have run the 9/11 operation why would I turn anything over to them?

Now if someone has 12 million euros lying around......

Then you have nowhere to go with your evidence, do ya? Fact is, you don't have anything of signficance and have just proved it. Kthnx4playing. buh bye

[little grey rabbit]

Then you have nowhere to go with your evidence, do ya?
Precisely put, but I think perhaps you should be careful not to be so explicit - even on somewhere as irrelevant as JREF.

[MIKILLINI]

Precisely put, but I think perhaps you should be careful not to be so explicit - even on somewhere as irrelevant as JREF.

Totally accurate:Nowhere to go exists only in your mind. Paranoid much? You consider JREF irrelevant, but here you are posting unsubstantiated claims.
That makes your arguments...irrelevant.

[Robrob]

Since the authorities are the same authorities that must have run the 9/11 operation why would I turn anything over to them?
Interesting the (according to you) Illuminati who are willing to kill 3,000 Americans are so unafraid of your "evidence" they can't be bothered to eliminate you?

Ineffectual as well as incompetent, eh?

[little grey rabbit]

Interesting the (according to you) Illuminati who are willing to kill 3,000 Americans are so unafraid of your "evidence" they can't be bothered to eliminate you?

Ineffectual as well as incompetent, eh?

A. Do I seriously represent a threat? I don't see it.

B. I have something they want
http://www.online-literature.com/poe/42/
"Why - it did not seem altogether right to leave the interior blank - that would have been insulting. D--, at Vienna once, did me an evil turn, which I told him, quite good-humoredly, that I should remember. So, as I knew he would feel some curiosity in regard to the identity of the person who had outwitted him, I thought it a pity not to give him a clue. He is well acquainted with my MS., and I just copied into the middle of the blank sheet the words -

" '-- -- Un dessein si funeste, S'il n'est digne d'Atrée, est digne de Thyeste.

They are to be found in Crebillon's 'Atrée.' "

[MIKILLINI]

Interesting the (according to you) Illuminati who are willing to kill 3,000 Americans are so unafraid of your "evidence" they can't be bothered to eliminate you?

Ineffectual as well as incompetent, eh?

LGR argues about having evidence...He can't:

1) be bothered to upload his "proof" :rolleyes:
2) find any "trustworthy authority" to turn his "proof" over to.:rolleyes:
3) be of any relevance in reference of evidence.

Another ineffective, delusional one trying to connect the dots.

[NobbyNobbs]

Its not a priority for me at the moment. I never object when Americans kill other Americans. On the contrary, I wish they would stick exclusively just to bombing Americans, they seem to do it so well.

I am interested in the status of the individual pieces of supposedly corroborating evidence to see if I can determine its origins.



So, you have proof the American government, which you seem to have great contempt for, was complicit in the cold-blooded murder of 3000 innocent civilians, and the release of this evidence would not only result in the arrest of some majorly high profile people but also lower world opinion of the U.S. on an unprecedented level. The only things holding you back are a) you can't think of who to share it with and b) recompense for your time and effort? Let me help you out.

1. Go to the press. They will gladly pay for that kind of dirt on top officials.

2. If you don't trust the American press, there are thousands of foreign press outlets. Surely one of them will be interested in picking up the story.

3. Sell it to a foreign government. There are many that would like to see the U.S. embarrassed.

4. In addition to initial payment, all of the above would result in multiple paid interviews, speaking engagements, book deals, etc. You'll be a millionaire.

I eagerly await the release of your evidence. Until then, could you at least reveal how you came by it?

[AJM8125]

I eagerly await the release of your evidence. Until then, could you at least reveal how you came by it?

Found it under the bridge, no doubt.

[garethdjb]

Found it under the bridge, no doubt.

Or in a cave in his mother's basement.

[TsuDhoNimh]

did they actually find burned bodies strapped to seats?
pardon the dumb question....

Yes, and shown as evidence in Moussaoui's trial.

[TsuDhoNimh]

I have information that demonstrates beyond any doubt that Flight 77 did not crash into the Pentagon.

So take it to Al Jazeera's news team.

[twinstead]

Since the authorities are the same authorities that must have run the 9/11 operation why would I turn anything over to them?

Now if someone has 12 million euros lying around......

So you can't find somebody with 12 million euros laying around for the Pulitzer Prize winning scoop of the century? Seriously?

Dude you don't have crap.

[Craig4]

So what part was hyperbole?

Seeing photographs? Or seeing photographs of bodies obviously from flight 77?

As to my interest I have always made it completely clear. I have information that demonstrates beyond any doubt that Flight 77 did not crash into the Pentagon. Ergo, every piece of evidence that disputes this must either be misinterpreted or falsified.

I am interested as to extent each of these techniques were used. My initial reaction on reading Swan's claim was exactly yours - hyperbole or false claim - without any underlying artefacts. However it has become obvious that this is probably not the case and we need to look at explanations involving falsification of evidence.

You sir, are a liar.

[little grey rabbit]

So, you have proof the American government, which you seem to have great contempt for, was complicit in the cold-blooded murder of 3000 innocent civilians, and the release of this evidence would not only result in the arrest of some majorly high profile people but also lower world opinion of the U.S. on an unprecedented level. The only things holding you back are a) you can't think of who to share it with and b) recompense for your time and effort? Let me help you out.

1. Go to the press. They will gladly pay for that kind of dirt on top officials.

2. If you don't trust the American press, there are thousands of foreign press outlets. Surely one of them will be interested in picking up the story.

3. Sell it to a foreign government. There are many that would like to see the U.S. embarrassed.

4. In addition to initial payment, all of the above would result in multiple paid interviews, speaking engagements, book deals, etc. You'll be a millionaire.

I eagerly await the release of your evidence. Until then, could you at least reveal how you came by it?

Oh dear, did you not read my link?

"Why - puff, puff - you might - puff, puff - employ counsel in the matter, eh? - puff, puff, puff. Do you remember the story they tell of Abernethy?"

"No; hang Abernethy!"

"To be sure! hang him and welcome. But, once upon a time, a certain rich miser conceived the design of spunging upon this Abernethy for a medical opinion. Getting up, for this purpose, an ordinary conversation in a private company, he insinuated his case to the physician, as that of an imaginary individual.

" 'We will suppose,' said the miser, 'that his symptoms are such and such; now, doctor, what would you have directed him to take?'

" 'Take!' said Abernethy, 'why, take advice, to be sure.' "

"But," said the Prefect, a little discomposed, "I am perfectly willing to take advice, and to pay for it. I would really give fifty thousand francs to any one who would aid me in the matter."

"In that case," replied Dupin, opening a drawer, and producing a check-book, "you may as well fill me up a check for the amount mentioned. When you have signed it, I will hand you the letter."

[Craig4]

Oh dear, did you not read my link?

No one is going to give you money for your delusional crap. Face it, your delusions are of no higher quality than any other truther's delusions and are worth the same; nothing.

[MRC_Hans]

I have information that demonstrates beyond any doubt that Flight 77 did not crash into the Pentagon.


No, you have not. It may have convinced you, but it won't convince others.

I say this with confidence, because you have no particular privileged access to evidence in this case, so if such evidence existed, others would have it, too, and it would have been made public by now.

Hans

[little grey rabbit]

No, you have not. It may have convinced you, but it won't convince others.

I say this with confidence, because you have no particular privileged access to evidence in this case

I never said I did, nor does my proposition have anything to do with the Pentagon, they can kill as many of their fellow Americans as they like. Better go and ask someone better informed what it is about.

However, since 9/11 rests not on Governments but on People, the fact that that information I have wouldn't convince debunkers means nothing.

It wouldn't convince most debunkers, because most debunkers firmly believe 9/11 was an inside job. They believe it because they are insiders themselves.

[MRC_Hans]

I never said I did, nor does my proposition have anything to do with the Pentagon,

Yes you said quite explicitly:

I have information that demonstrates beyond any doubt that Flight 77 did not crash into the Pentagon.

You know, this is the problem with debating on the internet: You can't run away from your words. ;)

To demonstrate without any doubt means that it will convince most.

It wouldn't convince most debunkers, because most debunkers firmly believe 9/11 was an inside job. They believe it because they are insiders themselves.

I am a debunker. Are you saying that I am an accomplice in mass murder?

Hans

[little grey rabbit]

Yes you said quite explicitly:



You know, this is the problem with debating on the internet: You can't run away from your words. ;)

I don't run away from them.... and if I ever feel inclined to post some of this material I will certainly do so.

Just its not part of the strategy at the moment.




I am a debunker. Are you saying that I am an accomplice in mass murder?

Hans

I am not in position to know and I care even less. Debunkers are either knaves or naive (frequently both) but assessing each individual debunker is not my concern.

[MRC_Hans]

I don't run away from them.... and if I ever feel inclined to post some of this material I will certainly do so.

Just its not part of the strategy at the moment.



I am not in position to know and I care even less. Debunkers are either knaves or naive (frequently both) but assessing each individual debunker is not my concern.

*Yawn*

"I can change the world, I just don't feel like it right now."

How feeble you are.

I could call you are liar and a coward, but you are not worth it.

Hans :nope:

[little grey rabbit]

*Yawn*

"I can change the world, I just don't feel like it right now."

How feeble you are.

I could call you are liar and a coward, but you are not worth it.

Hans :nope:

No I can't change the world, because any piece of evidence can and will be vehemently denied by people who are implicated and their ideological kin.

Suppose I produced tapes of the Ops Center of the critical moment when Flight 93's flight path was rerouted and choreographed for the Shanksville missile decoy - you would just say it was voice morphing and I would probably have to change my identity and fast.

Suppose I reproduced the debrief tapes of the pilot who shot the missile at the Pentagon and then up Shanksville - you would just say they were fakes. Ditto if I produced the radar records before they were scrubbed. Or if I produced the spec sheets of the drones flown into the WTC and the code names, the budget cost centers and the cover teleogies they were given.

Where lies the strength of the Church? It is people, people, people.

When there is the political will in America to investigate, it will fall apart. But there is nothing I can do to hurry or delay this process.

[MRC_Hans]

No I can't change the world, because any piece of evidence can and will be vehemently denied by people who are implicated and their ideological kin.

I'm sure it would, but the rest of the world would love it.

Suppose I produced tapes of the Ops Center of the critical moment when Flight 93's flight path was rerouted and choreographed for the Shanksville missile decoy - you would just say it was voice morphingWell that sure sounds familiar. To a thief, everybody is a thief. But, since you can't produce such an item, the point is moot.:dio:

and I would probably have to change my identity and fast.Uhh, no. If you had such evidence, but planned on NOT publishing it, you would need to run, fast. Actually, you would already be dead. But once you published, what would going after you accomplish?

Suppose I reproduced the debrief tapes of the pilot who shot the missile at the Pentagon and then up Shanksville - you would just say they were fakes.But, since you can't produce such an item, the point is moot.:dio:


Ditto if I produced the radar records before they were scrubbed. Or if I produced the spec sheets of the drones flown into the WTC and the code names, the budget cost centers and the cover teleogies they were given.But, since you can't produce such an item, the point is moot.:dio:

Where lies the strength of the Church? It is people, people, people.

When there is the political will in America to investigate, it will fall apart. But there is nothing I can do to hurry or delay this process.No, because America doesn't have a single enemy in the world, and nobody would want to taint them, even if they had tangible evidence for one of the major crimes in history. No, I see your problem.

I really see your problem. ;):p

[little grey rabbit]

Uhh, no. If you had such evidence, but planned on NOT publishing it, you would need to run, fast.

Ahhhh, but I don't need to run at all, because as you so correctly point out I don't have it.

Nor, it goes without saying, do I know anybody who does.

I am just saying that should someone have it, this someone would know it would be very difficult to get it into the public sphere to any sizeable distribution - or have it believed if by some miracle it was given exposure. Because obviously anyone smart enough to have this material would be, well, quite smart

[MRC_Hans]

Ahhhh, but I don't need to run at all, because as you so correctly point out I don't have it.

Nor, it goes without saying, do I know anybody who does.

In other words, you admit you have zero evidence for accusing the US government of mass murder. Thank you.

I am just saying that should someone have it, this someone would know it would be very difficult to get it into the public sphere to any sizeable distribution - or have it believed if by some miracle it was given exposure. Because obviously anyone smart enough to have this material would be, well, quite smart

Apart from being a fantasy scenario, it is illogical. Even on the unlikely assumption that you could silence the American press (an endeavour in which a lot of people have had a spectacular streak of bad luck), there is a world outside the USA, and a considerable part of that world is quite un-enchanted with US administrations in general and with the past Bush administration in particular. Evidence of the kind you are dreaming about would surely need to be treated with caution, but there would be plenty of fertile ground in which to sow it.

However, since it has now been 10 years, and no such evidence has been forthcoming, or even hinted at except by day-dreamers, I think we can safely assume that it doesn't exist.

Thus we are left with the null hypothesis, AKA the 'OCT'. :p

But thank you for playing. I now suggest you seek to acquire a life.

Hans

[Craig4]

Ahhhh, but I don't need to run at all, because as you so correctly point out I don't have it.

Nor, it goes without saying, do I know anybody who does.

I am just saying that should someone have it, this someone would know it would be very difficult to get it into the public sphere to any sizeable distribution - or have it believed if by some miracle it was given exposure. Because obviously anyone smart enough to have this material would be, well, quite smart

That's nice.

[twinstead]

If the evidence was compelling enough, one would think that somebody "quite smart" would be able to figure out a way to get the truth out. I think it's more likely, however, that somebody "quite smart" would realize that he has nothing and troll and blow smoke on relatively obscure internet forums, blogs, and websites instead.

[little grey rabbit]

In other words, you admit you have zero evidence for accusing the US government of mass murder. Thank you.



Apart from being a fantasy scenario, it is illogical. Even on the unlikely assumption that you could silence the American press (an endeavour in which a lot of people have had a spectacular streak of bad luck),

Hans

Actually it is surprisingly easy to silence the American press. You may remember a girl call Neda of whom cell phone footage of her supposedly being shot was broadcast around the world. Iranian TV (and indeed the footage itself) was shown to be a rather poor acting performance complete with fake blood. The demonstration of fraud was incontrovertible.

It would be untrue to say the story was not run, it appeared in my local paper, but in such a way that the reader who had not seen the footage or seen the damning Iranian deconstruction of it would assume that this was nothing more than "lying Ayatollahs smearing the memory of the innocent Neda."

So you are delusional if you think the American press is some kind of free, fearless investigator of corruption. It most certainly is not.

As another example, I have incontrovertible evidence that the socalled Krematoria of Birkenau lack underground flues, which would demonstrate they could not have been krematoria, or at least not according to the widely touted blueprints. Yet what newspaper would dare run that story, what university would dare ask to investigate?

Suppose one turned up in Iran with tapes or other material that reveal the nature of the attack on 9/11. Firstly they would be highly suspicious that this was a trap designed to discredit them, then even if they were persuaded of their genuineness, what benefit is it to them to run them? After all, even if they were genuine the Western media would be unanimous in denouncing them as fakes - virulently so. And with American forces in Bahrain, Iraq, Uzbekistan and Afghanistan, it would be verging on suicidal to touch this material.

As a matter of fact I do personally have material that any reasonable person would agree demonstrated that no aircraft struck the Pentagon, but not of the hypothetical examples I outlined above.

[MRC_Hans]

So you are delusional if you think the American press is some kind of free, fearless investigator of corruption. It most certainly is not.

Straw-man much? Of course the American press is not that. But dangle the fattest scoop of the century under their noses for a decade, and some would bite.

As another example, I have incontrovertible evidence that the socalled Krematoria of Birkenau lack underground flues, which would demonstrate they could not have been krematoria, or at least not according to the widely touted blueprints. Yet what newspaper would dare run that story, what university would dare ask to investigate?

I have good reason to think that your definition of 'incontrovertible' differs somewhat from the standard use.

After all, even if they were genuine the Western media would be unanimous in denouncing them as fakes - virulently so.

French, British, Scandinavian, Russian? Now you are extremely naive.

As a matter of fact I do personally have material that any reasonable person would agree demonstrated that no aircraft struck the Pentagon, but not of the hypothetical examples I outlined above.

I fail to believe you.

Hans

[Craig4]

Actually it is surprisingly easy to silence the American press. You may remember a girl call Neda of whom cell phone footage of her supposedly being shot was broadcast around the world. Iranian TV (and indeed the footage itself) was shown to be a rather poor acting performance complete with fake blood. The demonstration of fraud was incontrovertible.

It would be untrue to say the story was not run, it appeared in my local paper, but in such a way that the reader who had not seen the footage or seen the damning Iranian deconstruction of it would assume that this was nothing more than "lying Ayatollahs smearing the memory of the innocent Neda."

So you are delusional if you think the American press is some kind of free, fearless investigator of corruption. It most certainly is not.

As another example, I have incontrovertible evidence that the socalled Krematoria of Birkenau lack underground flues, which would demonstrate they could not have been krematoria, or at least not according to the widely touted blueprints. Yet what newspaper would dare run that story, what university would dare ask to investigate?

Suppose one turned up in Iran with tapes or other material that reveal the nature of the attack on 9/11. Firstly they would be highly suspicious that this was a trap designed to discredit them, then even if they were persuaded of their genuineness, what benefit is it to them to run them? After all, even if they were genuine the Western media would be unanimous in denouncing them as fakes - virulently so. And with American forces in Bahrain, Iraq, Uzbekistan and Afghanistan, it would be verging on suicidal to touch this material.

As a matter of fact I do personally have material that any reasonable person would agree demonstrated that no aircraft struck the Pentagon, but not of the hypothetical examples I outlined above.

Your understanding of how the world actually functions is remarkable for its lack of sophistication. If you're going to attempt to defraud a major news outlet with your "evidence" of 9/11 I'd suggest you spend some time understanding the way governments and media companies function. Your scam will go farther.

[leftysergeant]

As a matter of fact I do personally have material that any reasonable person would agree demonstrated that no aircraft struck the Pentagon, but not of the hypothetical examples I outlined above.No, you haven't. You probably do not even have any sorry excuse for such, since you have not entered any such thing into evidence here.

[beachnut]

... As a matter of fact I do personally have material that any reasonable person would agree demonstrated that no aircraft struck the Pentagon, but not of the hypothetical examples I outlined above. No, you have delusional claims that fool some people who can't do research, don't use logic, and are unable to connect evidence to form rational conclusions.

Does anyone agree with you? When will you present your evidence?

No, you haven't. You probably do not even have any sorry excuse for such, since you have not entered any such thing into evidence here. He is saving it for his Pulitzer Prize package.

[Zowert]

The Pentagon is not the only place I've heard people talking about seeing charred bodies strapped to their seats.

Rescue workers at the World Trade Center site began to discover body fragments from Flight 11 victims within days of the attack. Some workers found bodies strapped to airplane seats and discovered the body of a flight attendant with her hands bound, suggesting the hijackers might have used plastic handcuffs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_11#Aftermath

The references on Wikipedia are articles from the New York Times and AM New York, with eye-witness accounts. Are these two media outlets part of the NWO too?

[MIKILLINI]

It wouldn't convince most debunkers, because most debunkers firmly believe 9/11 was an inside job. They believe it because they are insiders themselves.

:dl:

Take your medication, some irrational statements are showing up.

[MIKILLINI]

Suppose one turned up in Iran with tapes or other material that reveal the nature of the attack on 9/11. Firstly they would be highly suspicious that this was a trap designed to discredit them, then even if they were persuaded of their genuineness, what benefit is it to them to run them? After all, even if they were genuine the Western media would be unanimous in denouncing them as fakes - virulently so. And with American forces in Bahrain, Iraq, Uzbekistan and Afghanistan, it would be verging on suicidal to touch this material.

As a matter of fact I do personally have material that any reasonable person would agree demonstrated that no aircraft struck the Pentagon, but not of the hypothetical examples I outlined above.

What you don't have is: De Plane! Who made those airliner passengers, airliners and airliner records disappear from all existence? American Airlines and United would be involved as well, according to you. The more you talk, the more you remind me of Bradford Smith (I'm sure you know who I mean); He says it's da Joooos, and da Jooooos are involved with everything "inside Jobby Job" concerning 9/11.:rolleyes:

You guys are lunatic fringe......irrelevant.

[MRC_Hans]

Oh, and this:


As a matter of fact I do personally have material that any reasonable person would agree demonstrated that no aircraft struck the Pentagon, but not of the hypothetical examples I outlined above.

There are obviously two possibilities, here:

1) It is a lie. (OK LGR's definition of 'reasonable person' may be entirely unconventional)

2) It is true. In this case, we are forced to conclude that LGR is a shill, paid by the 'perps' to not publish his information. His mentioning it here would be his form of life insurance, signalling that if the payments were to be replaced with, say, lead, there could be leaks.

SO which are you, LGR: Liar or shill?

Hans :D

[little grey rabbit]

Oh, and this:



There are obviously two possibilities, here:

1) It is a lie. (OK LGR's definition of 'reasonable person' may be entirely unconventional)

2) It is true. In this case, we are forced to conclude that LGR is a shill, paid by the 'perps' to not publish his information. His mentioning it here would be his form of life insurance, signalling that if the payments were to be replaced with, say, lead, there could be leaks.

SO which are you, LGR: Liar or shill?

Hans :D

Both.

[MRC_Hans]

Both.

OK, noted.

Bye.

Hans

[stewieg]

As a matter of fact I do personally have material that any reasonable person would agree demonstrated that no aircraft struck the Pentagon, but not of the hypothetical examples I outlined above.

Just in case you are not trying to be funny maybe you should call American Airlines up and let them know it was not their 757 that hit the Pentagon.

[twinstead]

Just in case you are not trying to be funny maybe you should call American Airlines up and let them know it was not their 757 that hit the Pentagon.

Nah, AA was probably in on it, but I think their insurance companies, and the insurance companies for the WTC buildings, probably will have a reward for tipping them off to this massive insurance fraud.

[George152]

Just in case you are not trying to be funny maybe you should call American Airlines up and let them know it was not their 757 that hit the Pentagon.

Hey. Maybe it's hiding behind a truther...
You know how thick they are

[Craig4]

Both.

Anyone cough up the 12 million Euros yet?

[MIKILLINI]

Anyone cough up the 12 million Euros yet?

*Cough* Yep *Cough* ;)

[djlunacee]

Bodies can be planted and bodies strapped in plane seats can be planted. Those bodies stapped in plane seats don't prove anything. The evidence that the craft that hit the Pentagon was too small to be a 757 is crushing.
http://www.bcrevolution.ca/911_part_iii.htm

More here.
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144746

Edit
-------------

I mean they were planted in the Pentagon before the crash.

Here's my evidence it was indeed AA77.

http://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/911pentagonflight77evidencesummary

Game over.