American torture

[kittynh]

I'm watching tv out of the corner of my eye, and some reporter is talking about the horrible torture Americans are inflicting on suspected terrorists. I kept waiting for the bad stuff...and the best she could do was that they sometimes let WOMEN do the interrogations. HA! This may not seem like anything that bad to you, but if you had MY sister!

[corplinx]

torture is the latest meme, don't miss it! You will soon be hearing people by the water cooler talking about how the Bush Gestapo is torturing people and how they heard something about it on the news!

Don't have a real news story? Don't worry! Nobody is paying attention.

If this was Dateline, then yes I was forced to watch it too. All I know is Dateline has the worst anchors on TV. Each of their male anchors has the hammiest anchor voice and overdoes the head nods and face gestures.

[American]

It's expected that any other group in the world will use torture except the western allies. They can torture, we can't.

I take the double standard as a double complement. And if we should ever slip and play by the rules like everyone else breaks them, well that's for you to prove (which you can't because it simply doesn't happen).

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Originally posted by kittynh
I'm watching tv out of the corner of my eye, and some reporter is talking about the horrible torture Americans are inflicting on suspected terrorists.

What, are they forcing them to listen to Michael Bolton records?? :eek:

[Ben Shniper]

They say that to hardened islamists, it is very insulting to be interviewed by women, or to have female prison guards, or to be around various things western culture considders common. I don't give a crap about that though. I think of the physical aspect as the most serious part.

Still, there are rumors of torture, of solitary confinement and physical "pressure" to extract information. This is to be taken very seriously on three levels.

On the first level, it is unreliable to get information this way, which may lead to further mistakes (arresting new people to be mistreated who may be innocent).

On the second level, it is inhumane and makes our cause less worth fighting for. Even if we turn these people over to "allies" who will do the torture for us, this is a real moral dillema which shouldn't be entrusted to fate. Our rules should be strictly against torture. Let's leave that sh*t to Israel and Pakistan, let's not go there, or even ask anyone else to go there for us. And what does use of torture gain for the countries that use it? Only more repressive atmospheres and a decrease in freedoms for all.

On the third level, it negates much of our external arguments to the world. What can we tell the world we stand for? Different forms of torture? Yeah, great. It will also sap our own morale quite a bit.

I think we should take these charges very seriously, and not brush them off.

Ditto for any cops still using this crap to bully people in the street. We need less torture. Zero would be great, but I think we just need to make an honest effort to keep it minimized, the world should respect us if we do that.

-Ben

[Ove]

Ben you surprise me, i find myself actually agreeing to all you say, hmmmmm....... nice surprize:)

I heard that some of the false terror alarms raised lately have been based on rumors told by prisoners "telling interrogators what they wanted to hear". :rolleyes:

[Bjorn]

Ben:

Well said. I totally agree.

[subgenius]

Originally posted by kittynh
I'm watching tv out of the corner of my eye, and some reporter is talking about the horrible torture Americans are inflicting on suspected terrorists. I kept waiting for the bad stuff...and the best she could do was that they sometimes let WOMEN do the interrogations. HA! This may not seem like anything that bad to you, but if you had MY sister!

There are those here who will justify and turn a blind eye to any thing (they know who they are, just wait), but just because that one reporter only came up with that example doesn't mean that's all to the story.
America admits suspects died in interrogations
By Andrew Gumbel in Los Angeles
07 March 2003

American military officials acknowledged yesterday that two prisoners captured in Afghanistan in December had been killed while under interrogation at Bagram air base north of Kabul – reviving concerns that the US is resorting to torture in its treatment of Taliban fighters and suspected al-Qa'ida operatives.

A spokesman for the air base confirmed that the official cause of death of the two men was "homicide", contradicting earlier accounts that one had died of a heart attack and the other from a pulmonary embolism.

The men's death certificates, made public earlier this week, showed that one captive, known only as Dilawar, 22, from the Khost region, died from "blunt force injuries to lower extremities complicating coronary artery disease" while another captive, Mullah Habibullah, 30, suffered from blood clot in the lung that was exacerbated by a "blunt force injury".

"US officials previously admitted using "stress and duress" on prisoners including sleep deprivation, denial of medication for battle injuries, forcing them to stand or kneel for hours on end with hoods on, subjecting them to loud noises and sudden flashes of light and engaging in culturally humiliating practices such as having them kicked by female officers.

While the US claims this still constitutes "humane" treatment, human rights groups including Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch have denounced it as torture as defined by international treaty."
http://news.independent.co.uk/world...sp?story=384604
OK lets hear all the apologists say blunt force injuries, and denial of medicine if you're in excruciating pain, and all the rest (not just interrogation, but kicking---ever been kicked?) is not that bad. Or that maybe somebody else did it.
It does us no good to become like the people we hate.
(Just checked the link and its not working at this time)

Try this one:http://news.independent.co.uk/world/politics/story.jsp?story=384604

[subgenius]

President Bush appeared to encourage extra-judicial solutions in his State of the Union address in January when he talked of al-Qa'ida members being arrested or meeting "a different fate". "Let's put it this way," he said in a tone that appalled many, "they are no longer a problem to the United States and our friends and allies."
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/politics/story.jsp?story=384604

He's a macho, macho man.
But at least he's not a crackhead............anymore.

[HarryKeogh]

one of the main problems with torture is that under extreme physical pain people will confess to anything regardless of having anything to do with it. sure, youll get the answer you want but it's still useless.

i think western approved "torture" (sleep and hunger deprivation, humiliation et al) would be much more effective in getting useful info than pulling fingernails and the other stuff that nightmares are made of.

and of course i'm sure there are some sadistic bastards out there, regardless of nationality, who get a kick out of torturing the enemy. it seems very easy to get out of hand.

[kittynh]

The report also said they try to fool the prisoners about what country they are in...under the threat that we would turn them over to that country to torture.

I certainly feel there is some serious "torture" going on, and psychological torture can be far harder than physical torture.
But, really I'm not kidding when I say that if my sister is down there - and that is a possibility - I can only say to the detainees TELL ALL!!! (she probably took her Shawn Cassidy albums)

[patnray]

Excellent points, Ben. And well said.

[Br000chie]

Originally posted by The Central Scrutinizer


What, are they forcing them to listen to Michael Bolton records?? :eek:

Michael Bolton??? You cruel, heartless excuse for a human being!

White noise is one thing ... but Michael Bolton!!!! :eek: