depressing survey

[Marc]

Saw an article on a survey dealing with discrimination. It was mostly on race, but did a little on religion too.

When questioned about what religious or nonreligious group doesn’t share their vision of American society, survey participants indicated that atheists — with 54 percent — provided the greatest threat, Hartmann said. Survey participants said Muslims create the second-highest threat.

“This result shows that religion is deeply intertwined with conceptions of American society,” he said. “The absence of faith, the belief in a higher being seems to be a major barrier between people in our society.”


:(

Profs study race, religion (http://www.mndaily.com/articles/2004/04/27/9453#repeat)

[Skeptical Greg]

never mind..

I apologize if anyone saw, and was offended by my thoughtless remark..

I'll try to come up with a worthwhile contribution....

[Graham]

Originally posted by Marc
Saw an article on a survey dealing with discrimination. It was mostly on race, but did a little on religion too.



:(

Profs study race, religion (http://www.mndaily.com/articles/2004/04/27/9453#repeat)

Well, in fairness you do hear on the news every night about people blowing themselves up at army checkpoints for atheism and people starting wars because atheism told them to and paedophiles being protected by atheist orgainisations and atheist cults committing mass suicide and gassing subways and . . .

Oh, no, wait, that's religious people. Hey, I guess they're right - if you're going to group people simply into atheist/religious, we do pose a threat to "their" vision of society.

IMO, religion encourages narrow mindedness and foolishness. This poll clearly demonstrates that.

Graham

[Abdul Alhazred]

I think this has more to do with an ignorant conflation of atheism with Communist "official atheism".

Certainly some of the world's worst bad guys were professed atheists.

[Mercutio]

Originally posted by Graham

...if you're going to group people simply into atheist/religious, we do pose a threat to "their" vision of society.

IMO, religion encourages narrow mindedness and foolishness. This poll clearly demonstrates that.
What a depressing poll.

They quite obviously lumped all atheists together, despite what I would see as no convincing reason to do so. Let us not make a similar mistake and lump all "religious" people together unless there is a compelling reason to do so.

I could point to a number of religious people in my own personal experience who would demonstrate your last paragraph I quoted. The problem is, I could just as quickly point to the same number of religious people who would be clear evidence against such a conclusion. I do think that there are data out there on this question...if I find any, I'll post it here.

[Graham]

Originally posted by Mercutio
What a depressing poll.

They quite obviously lumped all atheists together, despite what I would see as no convincing reason to do so. Let us not make a similar mistake and lump all "religious" people together unless there is a compelling reason to do so.

I could point to a number of religious people in my own personal experience who would demonstrate your last paragraph I quoted. The problem is, I could just as quickly point to the same number of religious people who would be clear evidence against such a conclusion. I do think that there are data out there on this question...if I find any, I'll post it here.

Maybe narrow minded, foolish people tend to be religious rather than vice versa?

There are many, many narrow minded and foolish people in the world so I suppose that could colour ones perception of religious people if it were true.

Graham

[Benguin]

Certainly some of the world's worst bad guys were professed atheists.

Some, maybe .. but I'm never convinced Pol pot and Stalin with their dogmatic marxism/communism and kind of enforced state anti-religion really is atheism.

I can't think of any others, though I'm sure there are.

And I defy you to find me an example of an atheist conducting a suicide bombing!

[Abdul Alhazred]

Originally posted by Benguin


1) Some, maybe .. but I'm never convinced Pol pot and Stalin with their dogmatic marxism/communism and kind of enforced state anti-religion really is atheism.

I can't think of any others, though I'm sure there are.

2) And I defy you to find me an example of an atheist conducting a suicide bombing!

1) Millions called it atheism, on both sides. I think this is reflected in the poll.

2) Of course not, but lots of folks remember the threat of nuclear war.

I'm trying to explain the results, not defend the implied point of view.

[Benguin]

Yes, I'm digressing it into a discussion about the question rather than the survey results. Fair enough, I'll stop dragging it off topic!

[IllegalArgument]

This would be more interesting if they study had a longer timespan. I would guess the atheism has become more acceptible over the last 30 years, as general societal tolerence has increase.

Despite those godless commies. ;)

[Benguin]

Perhaps an attempt to ascertain the reasons why people saw a particular theistic stance as a threat ... although that would be a recipe for all sorts of bigoted rants and conspiracy theories!

[MLynn]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When questioned about what religious or nonreligious group doesn’t share their vision of American society, survey participants indicated that atheists — with 54 percent — provided the greatest threat, Hartmann said. Survey participants said Muslims create the second-highest threat.

“This result shows that religion is deeply intertwined with conceptions of American society,” he said. “The absence of faith, the belief in a higher being seems to be a major barrier between people in our society.”

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This result doesn't surprise me, but it has steeled my resolve to be a friend to people of different beliefs/non-beliefs. We seem to have a culture where everyone is "pigeon-holed" and I don't like it.

[Benguin]

Unfortuinately, I think many people have just two pigeon holes;

1. People who think just like I do
2. All those other atheist commie loving satan worshipping foreign gay bar-stewards.

[Yahweh]

As we all know, Christians are the most persecuted religious group in the country, especially by Atheists (http://www.infidels.org/misc/humor/lioaca.html)...

[RandFan]

Originally posted by Benguin
Some, maybe .. but I'm never convinced Pol pot and Stalin with their dogmatic marxism/communism and kind of enforced state anti-religion really is atheism. Sorry to drag you our point back out but I don't think this is rational. Perhaps dogmatic marxism/communism is antithetical to the goals and beliefs of most atheists and it is unfair to make atheists guilty by association but it was/is atheism. Atheism isn't a religion or a set of beliefs. It is simply the absense of a belief in god. Unless I am wrong and Jedi Knight was right and there are differnt atheistic dogmas. Feel free to start another thread but am I wrong here?

[JAR]

The article said:
When questioned about what religious or nonreligious group doesn’t share their vision of American society, survey participants indicated that atheists — with 54 percent — provided the greatest threat, Hartmann said. Survey participants said Muslims create the second-highest threat.
That is exactly what one would expect. It doesn't mean anything negative.

A Christian's vision of American society would probably be more similar to another Christian's vision of American society than it would be to an atheist's vision of American society or a Muslim's vision of American society. That is because religion influences morals.

One would not expect Muslims, atheists and Christians to share the same vision of American society being that they don't share the same moral code.

[JAR]

Liberals and conservatives also don't share the same vision of American society. People not sharing the same vision of American society is no big deal unless we live in a one-party government like the Soviet Union under Stalin and Nazi Germany where the opposition of current government policies and actions is suppressed.

[Eos of the Eons]

Oops, this was here first...ah well, I had a different source at least.

If the admins would like to go ahead and delete my duplicate.

[Benguin]

Randfan.

You are, of course correct in that. But then you've kind of made the point I was making about attempts to characterise an atheist mindset, when the real issue is that their is not such a thing.

I still think people with the fantacism and values of Stalin and Polpot were really creating their own theology (with themselves as deity), but that really isn't relevant to this thread. And, as you also point out, atheism as a word isn't a reference to theology or belief systems, simply the belief in dieties.

[Abdul Alhazred]

Originally posted by Benguin
I still think people with the fantacism and values of Stalin and Polpot were really creating their own theology ...

This thread is about a survey. If Communist "official atheism" is widely perceived as typical athiesm it will skew the results. And I think this is what has happenened.

Most people have never even heard of a rationalist, and think that a materialist means someone who likes money too much.

[Benguin]

Absolutely, I was straying of topic again.

I've also heard (frequently) religious folk describing other sects or religions they disagree with as atheistic. In particular, I've heard mormons and Jehovah's witnesses described in that way by other christians.

Has anyone seen any of the questions? did they make any attempt to define religious beliefs?

[Graham]

Originally posted by Benguin
Absolutely, I was straying of topic again.

I've also heard (frequently) religious folk describing other sects or religions they disagree with as atheistic. In particular, I've heard mormons and Jehovah's witnesses described in that way by other christians.

Has anyone seen any of the questions? did they make any attempt to define religious beliefs?

Unfortunately when you find the site of the survey-takers, the links to information on specific questions/issues are dead.

American Mosaic Project (http://www.soc.umn.edu/amp/index.php)

Under "Press kit" there are various heading but all I get is a blank page?

Graham