The REAL "Lawsuit against Winston is dropped."

[Zep]

Winston's original post
Actually, it was dropped last Friday. Randi's lawyer emailed me last Friday morning and told me that after discussing it with Randi, they decided to drop the lawsuit against me. The day before that, I wrote them a letter apologizing for my mistake, clarifying that it was never my intention to defame Randi in that manner, and that it was an accident and mistake. They were reasonable about it, and decided to just let it go as a lesson that I learned about being more careful about what I post on the boards next time.

But anyway, I decided not to tell you folks right away since it seemed you were having too much fun making dire predictions about me. I figured that this lawsuit against me made your boring lives a little more interesting. And yes, it was amusing watching some of you make grim dire predictions about my situation, knowing full well I would have the last laugh in the end. It was quite amusing to say the least.

Also, I knew that some of you were delighted deep down that I seemed to be in trouble, and would delight at seeing me suffer damages from this. So I kind of didn't want to spoil it for them just yet.

But I couldn't be silent about it forever, so I think now's the time to spill the beans. The lawsuit is dropped and the fun is over.

But don't worry, if you ever get bored, you can always scroll through the exciting 800+ photo slides of my two Russia trip albums! Yipeeeeee! :) Here is the link to that again:

http://hometown.aol.com/wwu777/myhomepage/travel.html

And if you delight in seeing me suffer, you can read about my dramas again, seeing the black humor stories from my ex-fiancee Katya. lol

Anyway, I'm sorry if some of you are mad that I withheld the news from you until now. Only a few select among my comrades were informed last Friday. The rest of you, I decided to leave in the dark for a while.

Again, just for the record, my statement concerning this issue of defamation on this board is that I made a mistake, it was an accident, and that it was never my intention to defame Randi in that manner, and I will be more careful about what I post in the future, making sure not to do that again.

Regards,
Winston

[Ed]

I am really not sure what more can be said on this topic. Why give any more air time to that troll/loon?

[MRC_Hans]

Actually, we have to be aware that he could be lying. There is nothing in the (few) official JREF statements on the matter that indicate that the case is dropped. And his sincerety surely shows in the rest of the post.

(Good idea to open a new thread, seeing as the other one was hijacked)

Hans

[Zep]

The last few on-topic posts on this subject:
Roadtoad
I would suggest rereading Hal's message, (and, damn, it's great to see that he's around!!!!!), mainly because the lawsuit is not dropped. It's on hold for the moment. At ANY time, it can, (and probably will) be picked up again.

I'm sorry to see it dropped. I know Randi wouldn't have gotten a cent from Winston, but dammit, this cannot be allowed to stand in ANY way, shape, or form! I'm willing to bet those who wrote the original articles are likely going to be getting subpoenas in the mail, and probably pretty damn quick.Reprise
Not only did Randi promise to keep us all informed about the progress of this case but Winston has posted the emails about the lawsuit elsewhere. Why would he not have posted the communications from Randi and/or Randi's lawyer about the lawsuit being dropped when he's posted every other communication about it?

Why isn't it all over Victor's website if Randi has backed down?

You guys call yourselves skeptics...Reprise
Given what Benneth has posted about Randi and the JREF over at The Proving in the last few days I'd be very, VERY upset if the lawsuit has been dropped and I think I would lose all respect for Randi and Hal if they didn't pursue this through the courts to the bitter end. I know that you can't sue every single person who says something bad about you, but this one has gotten WAY out of hand.Roadtoad
...no, the suit has NOT been dropped. It's on hold. That's what Randi and Hal have said. I'm willing to bet that this is only first gear.

Second gear and all hell breaking loose, coming up.chipotle
Reprise, can I ask you to please post summaries and links to those Benneth postings. Benneth says this stuff all the time, and James manages not to notice. But once James isn't around to defend himself, we will all hear it all the time, that James was fill in Benneth fantasy of your choice and that James could have defended himself against the accusations, but didn't because they were true.

You should have no trouble reposting Benneth's claims in a way that doesn't draw the wrong kind of attention to yourself. If you prefer, just mail them to James.

Now...can we carry on sensibly here ON-TOPIC???

[Zep]

Originally posted by Ed
I am really not sure what more can be said on this topic. Why give any more air time to that troll/loon? To keep tabs on what is happening with it. I'm interested. Not THAT interested, but it's more interesting than trying to whack-a-rat Lucianarchy.

[Reginald]

Actually, we have to be aware that he could be lying. There is nothing in the (few) official JREF statements on the matter that indicate that the case is dropped. And his sincerety surely shows in the rest of the post.


Also there is the question of the "Bigger fish". Hints have been made that stuff is being posted elsewhere that is possibly damaging, and finally m'lud. There is the question of the sincerity of Mr Wu's apology, given his "Last laugh" type comments.

[Roadtoad]

I would think, Reginald, that the "Bigger Fish" are indeed being considered. Wu posted his bilge from another source, so I'm certain that other source is being contacted.

However, this does not absolve Winston of blame. He was dumb enough to post that sludge, he damn well ought to pay for his idiocy.

[Nigel]

Since Hal's post, has there been any word about the situation? I'd hate to keep speculating about it, it'd be like who's the better boxing champion: Muhammad Ali or Sugar Ray Brown? Kinda pointless, if you know what I mean.

[Reginald]

Originally posted by Nigel
Since Hal's post, has there been any word about the situation? I'd hate to keep speculating about it, it'd be like who's the better boxing champion: Muhammad Ali or Sugar Ray Brown? Kinda pointless, if you know what I mean.

Yes there has, this.....

Originally posted by hal bidlack
ok, enough of this nonsense. I have to read this thread every day to keep an eye on things, and it has been hopelessly hijacked and twisted. I am renaming it so that I can ignore it. While further speculation on Winston Wu is silly and largely uninformed, if you wish to continue to do so, please start a clean thread about it elsewhere. Sheesh.

From the other thread here (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=1870433082#post1870433082)

So in response to that......... Zep did, it's here.

At least it gives us somewhere to be silly, uniformed and on topic.

[Nigel]

Thanks Reginald, didn't see it in time. I posted my question about 1/2 hour (approx) after Hal posted his statement. I wasn't looking in the thread, but at the header. IMO, the best thing to do about Winston is drop him from discussion, but leave the lesson learned for all time.

[Lucianarchy]

There has been no rational reason provided why libel would continue to be published and kept on public view.

What about those who read the libel on the JREF and don't get to see the later re-address?

[reprise]

As expected, Zammit hasn't passed up any opportunity to claim credit (http://www.victorzammit.com/).

Apparently his lawyers obtained a copy of my defence for the writer and must have advised Zwinge Randi it would be absolutely disastrous for Zwinge Randi to proceed with the matter.

If only one could claim the JREF million for accurately predicting what Victor is going to say next.

[kookbreaker]

WHAT defense? "I'm poor, useless, and fleeing the country?

[Zep]

Originally posted by Lucianarchy
There has been no rational reason provided why libel would continue to be published and kept on public view.

What about those who read the libel on the JREF and don't get to see the later re-address? There has been no rational reason that YOU understand. But since it remained, that says that other rational people who know the law disagree with you.

[Zep]

Originally posted by reprise
As expected, Zammit hasn't passed up any opportunity to claim credit (http://www.victorzammit.com/).



If only one could claim the JREF million for accurately predicting what Victor is going to say next. Victor needs to either get his stuff proofread in the rush to publish, or get spelling software on his computer. The headline of the above article, verbatim:DEFAMATION- BIG VICTORY AGAINST THE CLOSED MINDE DEBUNING SKEPTICS!

[Ed]

Originally posted by Zep
Victor needs to either get his stuff proofread in the rush to publish, or get spelling software on his computer. The headline of the above article, verbatim:

It is sort of funny that woo's will take something as trivial as this as a "victory" while all that they have to do is provide evidence of their claims to get a real victory. It seems to me that wooism is an increasingly bankrupt enterprise.

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by reprise
As expected, Zammit hasn't passed up any opportunity to claim credit (http://www.victorzammit.com/).

From the page:

One of them, Susan confessed she even suggested Winston to 'apologize'!

Who is "Susan"?

Zwinge Randi stated words to the effect, "I do not care what it costs, I'm going to sue him - Winston."

"to the effect". Notice the out. Of course, we will see this quote be misattributed to Randi in the future.

Further, if the matter goes to litigation, WW will be in a position to CROSS CLAIM on Randi who called WW an 'idiot' and a 'liar'. Calling someone a 'liar' is actionable per se.

O.....K. So why doesn't WW take action? Why doesn't Zammit help WW?

This roughly means if you allow material to be aired in public, then afterwards you CANNOT sue on what you allowed- you will be estopped from taking action.

Randi - or JREF - did not "allow" material to be "aired". There is no pre-screening of material on the JREF forum.

Nor is Randi allowed to go to court using monies obtained from the public.

That's nice. However, Randi earns money from lectures, private grants and interest from the million bucks.

You have this guy who stated to a number of people words to the effect, "I'll go to court no matter what it costs!"

"Repetition works, David. Repetition works, David."
Robert Downey Jr., in "Natural Born Killer"

A week later, now I can say as predicted: "CASE DISMISSED."

(mental image of Victor Zammit, sitting in his squalid living room, transformed into a make-shift courtroom. The jurors are the dogs, the seats filled with mannequins, a life-sized cardboard cutout of Randi propped up against a stack of second-hand lawbooks, and Victor presiding as judge, replete with a torn-off mop on his head as a wig, screaming at the top of his lungs while banging his gavel on a tin pot: "CASE DISMISSED! CASE DISMISSED! CASE DISMISSED!")

[Ed]

This Ozzie wanker clearly is pushing the bounds of ethics by offering legal advice on an American case. If he were not so tedious I'd complain to the appropriate inhebriated Oz government agency. Why does he think that anyone actually cares what his "opinion" is? What is it with this "afterlife" deal? Does he actually believe that crap?

Since when has Oz developed a legal system in the first place? How does one get a law degree down there, tour a Foster's plant?


Wanker.


Claus, are you alluding to Ruppert Pupkin perchance?

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Ed
Claus, are you alluding to Ruppert Pupkin perchance?

No, but it certainly is an appropriate comparison also.

[Roadtoad]

This would actually be funny, if Zammit were even close to the truth. As it is, he's demonstrated that as an attorney, he's farcical. Now, we know why the exchange was left up. ANYONE with a genuine intrest in the truth will read it, and realize that Winston's behavior, and his post, were defamatory and malicious. Zammit couldn't even post the correct information, for God's sake! And all he had to do was cut and paste!

Imbecile. He's a frigging imbecile.

(And I'll bet any court in the world would say that the facts bear that out. No defamation.)

[reprise]

However, Randi earns money from lectures, private grants and interest from the million bucks.

I'm pretty sure that Randi has no access to the interest on the challenge money as each time the amount in the trust account is published it's in excess of a million dollars and a strange enough amount that the excess is probably interest. It may be that the JREF has access to the interest, or even that the interest is returned to the original donor, but I'd be extremely surprised if it goes into Randi's pocket.

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by reprise
I'm pretty sure that Randi has no access to the interest on the challenge money as each time the amount in the trust account is published it's in excess of a million dollars and a strange enough amount that the excess is probably interest. It may be that the JREF has access to the interest, or even that the interest is returned to the original donor, but I'd be extremely surprised if it goes into Randi's pocket.

It goes into JREFs books.

[reprise]

Originally posted by Ed
This Ozzie wanker clearly is pushing the bounds of ethics by offering legal advice on an American case. If he were not so tedious I'd complain to the appropriate inhebriated Oz government agency. Why does he think that anyone actually cares what his "opinion" is? What is it with this "afterlife" deal? Does he actually believe that crap?

Since when has Oz developed a legal system in the first place? How does one get a law degree down there, tour a Foster's plant?


Wanker.


Claus, are you alluding to Ruppert Pupkin perchance?

Actually, the appropriate organisations to lodge complaints with would be the NSW Bar Association (http://www.nswbar.asn.au/) and the Law Society of NSW (http://www.lawsociety.com.au/page.asp?partid=66).

It is perfectly possible that Winston did seek a lawyer-client relationship with Victor, and such is certainly implied by Victor's statement that "Apparently his lawyers obtained a copy of my defence for the writer and must have advised Zwinge Randi it would be absolutely disastrous for Zwinge Randi to proceed with the matter" (this particular statement, which was on Victor's website yesterday seems to have since been removed, as well as extra content being added and some spelling errors corrected), but in all fairness to Winston, the posts of his I've read asking Victor what to do are more of a "can you take a look at this" nature.

Yes, in general lawyers commenting online will generally confine themselves to the principles of law involved, emphatically state that they are not giving legal advice, and suggest that the poster seek legal advice from a lawyer who is qualified to practise in the particular jurisdiction concerned, but lawyers also have a right to make comments about issues in a non-professional capacity - the ethical obligation is to make clear when they are doing so.

[Zep]

Originally posted by CFLarsen
(mental image of Victor Zammit, sitting in his <strike>squalid</strike> living room, transformed into a make-shift courtroom. The jurors are <strike>the dogs</strike> his woo-woo friends, the seats filled with <strike>mannequins</strike> his woo-woo friends, a life-sized cardboard cutout of Randi propped up against a stack of second-hand lawbooks, and Victor presiding as judge, replete with a torn-off mop on his head as a wig, screaming at the top of his lungs while banging his gavel on a tin pot: "CASE DISMISSED! CASE DISMISSED! CASE DISMISSED!") I've corrected your passage for errors. You might also add that Victor will be hearing the voices of brilliant but long-dead lawyers who are advising him the best way to win his case against Randi (not Winston's, Victor's).
Ed: This Ozzie wanker clearly is pushing the bounds of ethics by offering legal advice on an American case.
Not "pushing the bounds of ethics" but being just plain stupid. He is as qualified as I am, and I'm not in the US and I'm not a lawyer.

If he were not so tedious I'd complain to the appropriate inhebriated Oz government agency. Why does he think that anyone actually cares what his "opinion" is? What is it with this "afterlife" deal? Does he actually believe that crap?
Victor has had years of practice at being tedious. He is universally ignored here. And yes, he DOES believe all that crap.

Since when has Oz developed a legal system in the first place? How does one get a law degree down there, tour a Foster's plant?
I shall refrain from smirking back at you in a country where you can buy doctorates from cheap magazines, but, in general, a law degree takes three full-time years of hard labour, followed by the usual grind of working from tea-boy upwards in practice.

Wanker.
Funny, that's what Victor is called here too, but we laugh while we say it.

[Mr Manifesto]

What does all this have to do with homeopathy?

:runs to foxhole, dives in, holds up helmet on stick, observes results:

[Zep]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto
What does all this have to do with homeopathy?

:runs to foxhole, dives in, holds up helmet on stick, observes results: sptooey...

[Romeo0310]

Dear Zep,

This is Winston, on my new account here at JREF. After this post, I will not post here anymore, since JREF does not want me here anymore.

But I just came back to answer your question about posting a statement from Randi's lawyer.

First of all, I am not supposed to post private email from a lawyer to this forum. How could you not know that?

But I will tell you that in the email from Randi's lawyer, the wording contains phrases such as ".....although we have withdrawn the possibility of lawsuit......" etc. that indicates the lawsuit was dropped.

Now, on an issue of semantics, Randi can see all this as the lawsuit being "suspended" but that's a matter of semantics. In any case, the letter I received indicated that it was dropped. Whether that means it's permanent or only temporarily, either way we can use the terminology "dropped".

By the way, I also want to state that I do not want Randi to be out of the field of parapsychology. I'd like to see him in it for as long as possible. The reason is because he is interesting. He gives paranormal believers a reason to unite and join forces, or else they would argue and squabble among themselves. Randi is the "Darth Vader" of parapsychology. Without him, it would be like taking the Darth Vader character out of the Star Wars movies, making it far less interesting. That's why I want to see Randi remain in this field.

And by the way Zep, I never wrote in my bio that I'm working a menial job in Bellingham, WA.

Finally, I would like to state for the record that Randi made a public factual error in his announcement in the Announcement section of this forum. After stating that the lawsuit against me was temporarily suspended, he went on to say that I told him that I was going to Taiwan to restart my life. What the? I NEVER EVER EVER once said such a thing to ANYONE! Where did he get that?????????!!!!!!!!!!

Now, I don't think Randi would lie about something so trivial, but it does show that he either has bad sources, or a bad memory. So I just wanted to correc that little factual error he made (you see, Randi isn't infallible after all :)). Those of you who think Randi never errs factually now have your proof that he can. Anyone who knows me or reads my articles knows that I am going to Russia, and have been planning so for 8 months.

Anyway, I will say goodbye to you all now, since I am banned from this forum. Best of luck.

Regards,
Winston

P.S. By the way, I know that most of you here aren't happy because happy people do NOT have a need to constantly bring other people down. You folks constantly have a need to bring others down, so it's obvious that deep down, you folks aren't happy. Simple as that. I wish you all well though.

[Romeo0310]

By the way, I forgot to add that currently, Benneth has written a letter to Randi and his lawyer, asking them to sue him. They slightly indicated that they agreed. But I don't know what has happened next but as far as I know, Benneth hasn't been served any court papers yet. But he wants to though. Unlike me, Benneth wants to be sued. He probably thinks the publicity would do him good. lol

Again, I want to make it clear that I do not support any of Benneth's libel personally, and I do not have any knowledge of the legitimacy of his claims either way.

[Roadtoad]

You still don't get it, do you, F***head?

[Zep]

Originally posted by Roadtoad
You still don't get it, do you, F***head? Roadtoad, I'm not going to give Winston any answer to this post at all. His action of sock-puppeting when he has been banned, with a defamation lawsuit suspended over his head on the proviso that he did not do this, is now publicly obvious. What happens next is out of my hands.

cheers
zep

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by Romeo0310
Unlike me, Benneth wants to be sued. If that were true, why do you suppose Winston violated "the agreement via which the lawsuit was suspended" (as per what Linda said)? If I didn't want to be sued, I would violate agreements made to avoid being sued. Seems like fairly common sense to me.

[Thomas]

As a newcomer I must ask: What's all this commotion about this Wu fella? What did he do in the first place to get so unpopular?

/thomas

[reprise]

Originally posted by Upchurch
If that were true, why do you suppose Winston violated "the agreement via which the lawsuit was suspended" (as per what Linda said)? If I didn't want to be sued, I would violate agreements made to avoid being sued. Seems like fairly common sense to me.

Unless, of course, someone had advised you that you might win the lawsuit and be entitled to compensation, in which case you might conclude that becoming to an et al carries little risk.

[Marian]

Originally posted by Thomas
As a newcomer I must ask: What's all this commotion about this Wu fella? What did he do in the first place to get so unpopular?

/thomas

Try here for a start: http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39081

You may need to poke around more for a full picture. The libel was...well really really bad. The fact that Winston Wu was quoting it from another source doesn't make it any less libelous (as he has discovered).

I'm not a fan of lawsuits, as I believe they're all too often abused, but I was impressed that given the nature of the slurs, and that they were posted 'in his home' (so to speak) I was impressed that they backed off and gave an opportunity to not have it settled in court. After all a lawsuit can ruin someone's life, and (while I don't know Winston Wu at all being new myself) perhaps it was a true error, and all that.

Returning and basically sticking a toe over the line and 'nyah nyahing' is terminally stupid. Either he wants to be sued, or he has mistaken kindness for weakness. Either way, Mr. Randi has much more patience than I would show given the particularly scummy level of nastiness. It was vile.

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by Thomas
As a newcomer I must ask: What's all this commotion about this Wu fella? What did he do in the first place to get so unpopular? Two questions with two answers.

What is all the commotion about?
This (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39081) provides a good summary. The short story is Winston made libelous statements about Randi and Randi sued.
edited to add: Marian beat me to it. :p

Why is he unpopular?
Plenty of reasons. The simple answer is that he came to a skeptic board, posted a lot of woo-woo garbage, and refused to defend his claims using "post-and-run" tactics. The first two happen all the time and is really no big deal. The third is really annoying and tends to make one unpopular around here. However, it wasn't for this that he was sent packing. It was the libel mentioned above that sunk his battleship.

[Thomas]

Thanks you two.. He seems to be a doofus.

/thomas

[Yahweh]

*Curls up on the couch, Momma Suez and I eat popcorn, observes silently, snickers a bit*

[Nigel]

Originally posted by Thomas
Thanks you two.. He seems to be a doofus.

/thomas
doofus only half describes Winston. He didn't seem to realize how much damage he brought on himself. Sad, like other posters I've seen. But also funny, in a morbid sort of way.

[Roadtoad]

Originally posted by Nigel

doofus only half describes Winston. He didn't seem to realize how much damage he brought on himself. Sad, like other posters I've seen. But also funny, in a morbid sort of way.

I see nothing funny about it, Nigel. Self destruction, as an author I read some time ago once said, can be done with some degree of style. Winston was simply a scattershot coward, who dumped his filth, (I said "filth..." I'M TRYING, HAL!!!!) into the laps of anyone who came near. He's a waste of webspace.

I hope they sue him.

[BillHoyt]

Originally posted by Roadtoad
Winston was simply a scattershot coward, who dumped his filth, (I said "filth..." I'M TRYING, HAL!!!!) into the laps of anyone who came near. He's a waste of webspace.

I hope they sue him.
Pull your zoom back away from that pawn and look at the rest of the chessboard. Find the salient posts and read them. Then do some google searches to put the picture together...

[Roadtoad]

Originally posted by BillHoyt

Pull your zoom back away from that pawn and look at the rest of the chessboard. Find the salient posts and read them. Then do some google searches to put the picture together...

I've done my Google searches, Bill. The charges are filth, and those who make them are filth. Men like James Randi find themselves with very powerful enemies. I'm aware that Wu is simply one player in this.

But, you have to start somewhere. I'm not suggesting the queen should be used to take the pawn, but at some point, you have to recognize that even pawns have their place on the board. And you have to take them.

[chipotle]

Let's start a Yahoo unprooving group to document and correct the crazy stories about James Randi that Benneth spreads on the prooving. It looks like one of you has already joined the prooving, and collecting data from there is the hard part.