Suction cups in medicine

[MRC_Hans]

One old medical practice that is still being used is those suction cups placed on the body, mostly the back and left for a while. I understand that in China, they are still very much in use. The explanation that I have heard, they suck out poisonous substances from the body, is obviously woowoo, but do they have some sensible function, or are they just yet another relic from the days of leeches and enemas?

Hans

[garys_2k]

I thought leeches were still used for some procedures (less trauma than mechanical blood suctioning). Perhaps suction cups would be indicated for snakebite (I admit I'm reaching here)?

[geni]

Originally posted by MRC_Hans
One old medical practice that is still being used is those suction cups placed on the body, mostly the back and left for a while. I understand that in China, they are still very much in use. The explanation that I have heard, they suck out poisonous substances from the body, is obviously woowoo, but do they have some sensible function, or are they just yet another relic from the days of leeches and enemas?

Hans

Removing certian types of snake venom from bites

[richardm]

Originally posted by geni

Removing certian types of snake venom from bites

Do they really work, though? I'd have thought the venom would be off and away into the bloodstream before you could even get your little cups out.

[geni]

Originally posted by richardm


Do they really work, though? I'd have thought the venom would be off and away into the bloodstream before you could even get your little cups out.

I think it depends on the type.

[bignickel]

Used in TCM:

The cups are half-globe glass cups, which are flipped over and their inside heated with a flame.

The are put on the patient, and the heat causes a suction to appear, causing the flesh underneath the cup to redden and rise up slightly.

From what I've read, their purpose is to 'balance' the ying/yang or something like it.


http://www.geocities.com/altmedd/cupping.htm

[TruthSeeker]

From The American Cancer Society (http://www.cancer.org/docroot/ETO/content/ETO_5_3X_Cupping.asp?sitearea=ETO) :

There is no scientific evidence that cupping leads to any health benefits.

How Is It Promoted for Use?

Cupping is a practice of Chinese medicine recommended primarily for treating bronchial congestion, arthritis, and pain. It is also promoted to ease depression and reduce swelling. There is no evidence to support these claims.

Cupping is supposed to realign and balance the flow of vital energy or life force called qi (or chi). In the presence of illness or injury proponents say, the qi is disturbed and may become excessive or deficient at certain points. The practitioner diagnoses any imbalances in the qi and attempts to restore them. Although not widely used as an alternative method of treatment for cancer, some practitioners may use it to rebalance energy in the body that has been blocked by certain tumors.


No research or clinical studies have been done on cupping. Any reports of successful treatment with cupping are anectodal. There is no scientific evidence that cupping can cure cancer or any other disease.

[ca3799]

The only suction cup use I know about is the vacuum extracor for stubborn babies.

[Hellbound]

Originally posted by geni


Removing certian types of snake venom from bites

While this used to be true, it's generally not done anymore. The most effective thing is a venous tourniquet between the bite location and the heart, and transport to a hospital. A venous tourniquet is anything that can restrict the blood flow from veins while not restricting arteries. Basically, like a regular tourniquet, but you tighten until the pulse stops, then back up a turn or so.

Genreally the venom is not injected directly into the bloodstream, but into tissue. It takes some time for the venom to be picked up by the capillaries, moved to a vein, and transported to the heart. The venous tourniquet will help reduce the amount of venom that gets there, thus reducing effects and prolonging survival. Should give enough time to get a person to a better treatment facility.

The only time I'd think about using any sort of suction would be in the wilds, when adequate medical care is far away.

[Hagrok]

Suction cups are apparently used in one of the stages of Lasik surgery. Pretty easy to find info about that on google.

--Dan

[Dragonrock]

Originally posted by garys_2k
I thought leeches were still used for some procedures (less trauma than mechanical blood suctioning).

I think they use leeches to improve bloodflow into reattached parts of the body like fingers, toes, or ears. The anticoagulant in the saliva keeps the blood flowing and prevents necrosis.

[epepke]

Originally posted by Huntsman
While this used to be true, it's generally not done anymore. The most effective thing is a venous tourniquet between the bite location and the heart, and transport to a hospital.

That's first aid, though, and it still leaves open the question of whether they use suction cups in the hospital.

Cupping with heated glass cups was also practiced fairly widely in Europe a few hundred years ago, so it isn't specifically Chinese.

[garys_2k]

Originally posted by epepke


That's first aid, though, and it still leaves open the question of whether they use suction cups in the hospital.


Yes, but the thread is open to discussion of medical practices, not just those specifically performed in a hospital. Therefore, the post you refer to is on-topic.

[Bjorn]

Originally posted by Dragonrock
I think they use leeches to improve bloodflow into reattached parts of the body like fingers, toes, or ears. The anticoagulant in the saliva keeps the blood flowing and prevents necrosis. I think you're quite correct:

Leeches have great therapeutic value because, as they consume their meal of blood, they promote blood flow through the tissue. The oozing promoted by the leech's natural anticoagulants allows blood to continue flowing through the tissue.

As reconstructive surgeries have become more complex, and as technology permits surgeons to tackle the diciest procedures, the medicinal leech has returned to vogue and large hospitals may use hundreds of medicinal leeches a year.
Some 'nice' pictures here:

http://images.google.com/images?q=leeches%20&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

[garys_2k]

Originally posted by Bjorn

Some 'nice' pictures here:

http://images.google.com/images?q=leeches%20&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi
Yum, pass the salt!

[epepke]

Originally posted by garys_2k


Yes, but the thread is open to discussion of medical practices, not just those specifically performed in a hospital. Therefore, the post you refer to is on-topic.


Pointing out that suction cups, or for that matter, MRI machines aren't used on-site by people camping in the woods may be on-topic, but it doesn't tell me whether or not they continue to have medical uses.

[bug_girl]

rats! you guys beat me to the leech info.
so, here's info on maggot therapy (http://www.ucihs.uci.edu/com/pathology/sherman/home_pg.htm)

Pictures of actual treatments are hidden here:
http://www.ucihs.uci.edu/com/pathology/sherman/cases.htm
Do not view while eating spaghetti or orzo pasta.
:p
Edited to add: really. they are quite graphic pictures. i thought i'd better make the warning more explicit.

[MRC_Hans]

Thanks for replies! So, another relic that might be of some use in certain situations, - for which it is rarely used :rolleyes:. Can't say I'm surprised.

Hans

[MRC_Hans]

And on maggot therapy: I'm in the diabetes business, and especially diabetes patients with progressed long-term effects have great benefits from this method. There are at present only one or two centers in Denmark that use it (but that is enough to cover the most urgents needs as we are a small country), but it is on its way up.

Hans

[Benguin]

Medically grown leeches are also used after cosmetic surgery to reduce swelling.

Here's one example (http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EYELID_REPLACED?SITE=HIHAD&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT)

My sincere apologies it lacks a gruesome photo

[Hellbound]

Originally posted by epepke


Pointing out that suction cups, or for that matter, MRI machines aren't used on-site by people camping in the woods may be on-topic, but it doesn't tell me whether or not they continue to have medical uses.

I realize I was a bit unclear. I meant to point out two things:

1) As a trained medical professional (emergency medicine), we are specifically taught not to try to suck out the poison (by any means). We simply reduce the spread with a venous tourniquet.

2) I have worked in hospitals and around them. Although I have not worked in an area with a high rate of snake bites or poisoning, I have seen some. Suction cups are not, in my experience, used in hospitals either. Generally, the patient is given antivenin or, if that is unavailable, medications for symptomatic treatment to keep them living until the poisons are flushed out.

Here (http://www.umm.edu/non_trauma/snake.htm) is a source that basically restates what I posted before...suction only if medical care is more than 30 minutes away. Here (http://www.healthcentral.com/mhc/top/000031.cfm) is another site that specifically states do not suction the venom.

Now, as to hospitals. If you look here (http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/995_snakes.html) you can see that surgery, antivenom, and simply monitoring are all listed as treatment. Suction is specifically not listed exceot in emergency situations, and again this is an older school of thought that is now unrecommended by most physicians unless treatment is not avialable soon.

Suction devices do have some use in modern medicine with snake bites, but this is typically only in first aid and is not the preferred method of treatment.

Hopefully, that is not only clearer but also adds some more useful info.