So, is homeschooling inferior?

[shanek]

Not according to this report:

http://www.hslda.org/research/ray2003/default.asp

In 2003, the Home School Legal Defense Association commissioned the largest research survey to date of adults who were home educated. Conducted by Dr. Brian Ray of the National Home Education Research Institute, the study surveyed over 7,300 adults who were homeschooled. Over 5,000 of these had been home educated at least seven years, and the statistics in this synopsis are based on their responses. The results confirm what homeschoolers have thought for years: “No problem here.”

Over 74% of home-educated adults ages 18–24 have taken college-level courses, compared to 46% of the general United States population (Figure 1). Note that nearly half (49%) of the respondents in this study were still full-time students and many of these had not yet received their degrees, possibly resulting in lower numbers of earned degrees actually reported by homeschoolers. Even so, homeschool graduates hold their own when compared to the general U.S. population.

http://www.hslda.org/research/ray2003/Fig1.gif

Homeschool graduates are active and involved in their communities. Seventy-one percent participate in an ongoing community service activity (e.g., coaching a sports team, volunteering at a school, or working with a church or neighborhood association), compared to 37% of U.S. adults of similar ages (Table 2). Eighty-eight percent of the homeschool graduates surveyed were members of an organization (e.g., such as a community group, church or synagogue, union, homeschool group, or professional organization), compared to 50% of U.S. adults.

Only 4.2% of the homeschool graduates surveyed consider politics and government too complicated to understand, compared to 35% of U.S. adults (Table 2).

The results of Dr. Ray’s cutting-edge research defuse long-held false criticisms of homeschooling and seem to indicate that homeschooling produces successful adults who are actively involved in their communities and who continue to value education for themselves and their children.

[Silicon]

So according to a study by the National Home Education Research Institute paid for by the Home School Legal Defense Association, home schooling is doing an excellent job?


WOW!


That sounds positively compelling.

[shanek]

Come on, argue the data, not the source.

[Bjorn]

Not to rain on the parade here, Shanek, but do we know much about how the parents who choose home-schooling compared to those who don't?

Could they, as an average, be more interested in their children's education, maybe they spend more time with them, maybe they are simply more intelligent in the first place or regard education more important in general?

I have nothing against home schooling, on the contrary, but I'm simply not sure if these statistics prove anything about the quality of public compared to home-based education. Nor does it say anything about the hours put in.

So according to a study by the National Home Education Research Institute paid for by the Home School Legal Defense Association, home schooling is doing an excellent job?Honestly, this argument could well be wrong but still shouldn't be shrugged off. Homeopaths and such hear it all the time.

[Silicon]

Self-selected positive respondants measured against census data of the general population.


How's that?

[Bjorn]

Originally posted by Silicon
Self-selected positive respondants measured against census data of the general population.

How's that? It's a good line, but I'm not sure if it's an accurate one.

I don;t know the research behind the numbers, that's one thing, but more important for me personally is that the home-schooling I've seen close up has given excellent results.

I would rather guess "Self selected, intelligent, interested parents measured against the general population. If I were to guess.

[Silicon]

Originally posted by Bjorn


I would rather guess "Self selected, intelligent, interested parents measured against the general population. If I were to guess.

Follow this link.
http://www.nheri.org/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=27

Although I'm not willing to pay $9 for the study itself, it's clear that he surveyed respondents, rather than establishing a random group beforehand and tracking their progress. Since the study was commissioned in 2003, this isn't any kind of longitudinal study. Probably not a sample of the general population, either.


The target population was all adults in the United States who had been home educated, regardless of whether thought positively or negatively about having been homeschooled. A written survey (questionnaire) and follow-up interviews were used to gather information about the participants.

So yes, this is a self-selecting group of people willing to respond to a survey about home schooling.

I'd further be interested in just HOW he got the list of families to which he sent questionaires.

Probably from the HSLDA, I'll wager.

Totally self-selecting. Better to do a random population sample.


Sorry, it's just plain sloppy. If that's their method of "proof," I find them highly suspect as a source of information.

[Bjorn]

Originally posted by Silicon
So yes, this is a self-selecting group of people willing to respond to a survey about home schooling.

I'd further be interested in just HOW he got the list of families to which he sent questionaires.

Probably from the HSLDA, I'll wager.

Totally self-selecting. Better to do a random population sample.

Sorry, it's just plain sloppy. If that's their method of "proof," I find them highly suspect as a source of information. I won't argue against that at all. I was, as I stated, thinking more along the lines of 'who chooses home-schooling in the first place', are they the poor and uneducated, the average, or above average?

Anecdote: On the other hand, what (not so little) I've seen of home-schooling has certainly showed good results, maybe because the parents were somehow qualified, interested, intelligent and had time to put into it.

Which makes me think that their children could score above average even in unbiased research, but that's another story.

Home-schooling might not be for everyone, but I have no reason to believe it couldn't beat public schools under certain circumstances - cost, for instance, would prevent a not-so-random group of the population from going for it.

[shanek]

Originally posted by Bjorn
Could they, as an average, be more interested in their children's education, maybe they spend more time with them, maybe they are simply more intelligent in the first place or regard education more important in general?

Possibly. But that effect would also refute many of the complaints about homeschooling.

[c0rbin]

Too many variables?

Scholastic success depends on the middle that is met between student, teacher, and curriculum.

There is no golden key.

[The idea]

Picture this: Joe Stalin not a dictator, but an immigrant musician and family man. His son, Shostakovich, is being home-schooled by Joe Stalin. (The lady of the house brings home the bacon.) Shostakovich is, on his own initiative, focusing on music. One problem: Joe Stalin sees hints of Mendelian formalism in the genetic structure of Shostakovich's music. Shostakovich just turned twelve. Is Shostakovich now old enough to move away from home and support himself without any help from old man Stalin?

[Bjorn]

Originally posted by shanek
Possibly. But that effect would also refute many of the complaints about homeschooling. About homeschooling as a choice, certainly.

Maybe not about homeschooling as the general way of educating children, because it would most probably leave quite a few unqualified parents with the task of teaching someone what they don't know themselves.

[shanek]

Originally posted by Bjorn
About homeschooling as a choice, certainly.

Yes, that's what I meant. So many people, including many here on this board, portray homeschooling as just an excuse that fundamentalist parents use to keep their children from learning about evilushun. As this data shows, nothing could be further from the truth.

[American]

Home-schoolers think "normal" is a relative term. It isn't, at least not in practice. If you think having no friends (except other freaks like yourself) is normal, then perhaps they have a point.


Unless there's an overwhelming reason to do it, like the kid is a born devil or you live in a crazy-high crime area, there's absolutely no reason to shelter your kid that much. It should be a crime.

[Bjorn]

Originally posted by American
Home-schoolers think "normal" is a relative term. It isn't, at least not in practice. If you think having no friends (except other freaks like yourself) is normal, then perhaps they have a point.


Unless there's an overwhelming reason to do it, like the kid is a born devil or you live in a crazy-high crime area, there's absolutely no reason to shelter your kid that much. It should be a crime. Sorry - I didn't know this was about not having friends. Please elaborate. :(

Maybe I think I have a special child, with special challenges or special abilities, or maybe I simply think we could do better on our own than within 'the system' - do you think we should be allowed to?

I have travelled to, lived in and worked in a lot of countries, meeting a lot of expats that relied on some kind of home-schooling or another. As an average, I would say I met well educated, well behaved children with far less problems than many of their contemporaries at home (don't forget my thoughts about not being an average crowd in the first place).

[aerocontrols]

Originally posted by The idea
Picture this: Joe Stalin not a dictator, but an immigrant musician and family man.

I'm having a tough time picturing a regular immigrant/family man musician changing his name to Joe Steel like some Bond villain.

Of course, as a family man, perhaps he could change it to Sade and pronounce it 'stalin'.

yeah, ok... I'm up to late. Carry on with the on-topic...

[Bjorn]

Originally posted by shanek
Yes, that's what I meant. So many people, including many here on this board, portray homeschooling as just an excuse that fundamentalist parents use to keep their children from learning about evilushun. I don't.

As this data shows, nothing could be further from the truth. Of that, I'm not sure. The data shows that the home-schooled children in this survey (significant or not) did better than the average children. :p It doen't disprove what fundamentalist parents might want to do ....

[Hexxenhammer]

Originally posted by American
Home-schoolers think "normal" is a relative term. It isn't, at least not in practice. If you think having no friends (except other freaks like yourself) is normal, then perhaps they have a point.


Unless there's an overwhelming reason to do it, like the kid is a born devil or you live in a crazy-high crime area, there's absolutely no reason to shelter your kid that much. It should be a crime. Dog help me, I agree 100%. Ever see one of those national spelling bees? A lot of those kids are home schooled and they're freaks. Seems like only insane people and religious fanatics home school.

Note I said seems like because those are the only ones you ever see or hear about.

[shuize]

Freaks, yes. But damn can they ever spell.*



*Provided of course they are allowed to practice freakish quirks like speaking into their hands before pronoucing every letter.

[Jagged Blossom]

Originally posted by Hexxenhammer
Seems like only insane people and religious fanatics home school.

Note I said seems like because those are the only ones you ever see or hear about.

To be perfectly fair, I have met a fair amount of insane people and religious fanatics who attend public schools.

The weirdest people I have met, on the whole, were graduates of a preschool-12th grade Montessori program. I was a Montessori teacher for a year, and let me tell you, these people are some elitist freaks!

No offense to any Montessori alumni...I can only comment based on what I have seen. In my opinion, they are far worse than the home schoolers!

[tamiO]

Originally posted by American
Home-schoolers think "normal" is a relative term. It isn't, at least not in practice. If you think having no friends (except other freaks like yourself) is normal, then perhaps they have a point.


Unless there's an overwhelming reason to do it, like the kid is a born devil or you live in a crazy-high crime area, there's absolutely no reason to shelter your kid that much. It should be a crime.

My children grew up with plenty of friends and are not freaks.

They were not sheltered, either. My public school system was was not challenging them, so I took them out.

I don't understand you, Hex and Shuize calling homeschooled kids "freaks." Is it because they are so intelligent and mature?

Is the United States the only country where you are made fun of for being smart?

I expect such comments from you, American, but I was surprised that Hex and Shuize chimed in with you. Perhaps you are all under the impression that only Christian Fundamentalists homeschool their kids?

[shuize]

No, you're right TamiO.

That spelling bee I watched must have given me a distorted view of reality. There really isn't anything odd about a child who has to practice making every sound by first speaking it into her hands before uttering it in the real world. And the rhythmic action of hands to mouth probably won't distract too many people when she goes on job interviews either.

[Denise]

I'm also with Tami here. Agree completely.

[Bjorn]

Originally posted by shuize
No, you're right TamiO.

That spelling bee I watched must have given me a distorted view of reality. There really isn't anything odd about a child who has to practice making every sound by first speaking it into her hands before uttering it in the real world. And the rhythmic action of hands to mouth probably won't distract too many people when she goes on job interviews either. I thought this was about home-schooling or not.

Is the 'rhytmic action of hands to mouth' somehow different, or worse, in private schools compared to private schools?

Is home-schooling about 'a child who has to practice making every sound by first speaking it into her hands before uttering it in the real world'? I might have seen such children, but certainly not because they have been home-schooled..

You're mixing some emotions and prejudices with facts, aren't you?

[Lemastre]

"Home schooling" seems to be regarded as some sort of anomalous, possibly unnatural activity, when it is basically what most public school advocates want to see more of. That is, they want parents to help educate their kids by imparting some sense of discipline and responsibility and possibly maintaining a home that encourages literacy. The problem is that all kids receive "home schooling" whether anyone is aware of it or not. Too often, it leads to undesired results because the kids exist among indifferent parents of inferior education themselves.

I don't doubt that motivated parents and kids can accomplish all that the public schools can vis-a-vis book learning. Whether the socialization process suffers is another question. I was home-schooled for periods during my elementary school years and had no problem keeping up with the classes. My parents weren't, however, qualified to answer calculus and physics questions.

[shanek]

Originally posted by American
Home-schoolers think "normal" is a relative term. It isn't, at least not in practice. If you think having no friends (except other freaks like yourself) is normal, then perhaps they have a point.

Please submit evidence that homeschoolers "have no friends (except for other freaks like themselves)."

Unless there's an overwhelming reason to do it, like the kid is a born devil or you live in a crazy-high crime area, there's absolutely no reason to shelter your kid that much. It should be a crime.

Please submit evidence that these kids are being sheltered.

Are you honestly saying that school is the only social activity available for kids?

[shanek]

Originally posted by Bjorn
It doen't disprove what fundamentalist parents might want to do ....

Granted, but I think there is reason to believe that these parents are at the very least a minority.

[shanek]

Originally posted by shuize
Freaks, yes. But damn can they ever spell.*

*Provided of course they are allowed to practice freakish quirks like speaking into their hands before pronoucing every letter.

Well, I had a "freakish quirk" about spelling. I had to draw out the word in the air before I could spell it verbally because I was such a visual learner—but, they wouldn't let me do that in spelling bees so I never went far in them. So, despite the fact that I could spell every single word in the 6th grade spelling book when I was in 2nd grade, I never went far at all in the spelling bees.

The one's I've seen lately, they allow the kids to write the word on a chalkboard and then spell it out verbally. What a ripoff! I could have blown almost anyone away if I had been allowed to do that.

Of course, I was "educated" in the government schools...

[shanek]

Originally posted by tamiO
My children grew up with plenty of friends and are not freaks.

They were not sheltered, either. My public school system was was not challenging them, so I took them out.

I don't understand you, Hex and Shuize calling homeschooled kids "freaks." Is it because they are so intelligent and mature?

Is the United States the only country where you are made fun of for being smart?

I expect such comments from you, American, but I was surprised that Hex and Shuize chimed in with you. Perhaps you are all under the impression that only Christian Fundamentalists homeschool their kids?

You go, TamiO! :D

[American]

Originally posted by tamiO

I don't understand you, Hex and Shuize calling homeschooled kids "freaks." Is it because they are so intelligent and mature?

Is the United States the only country where you are made fun of for being smart?

I expect such comments from you, American, but I was surprised that Hex and Shuize chimed in with you. Perhaps you are all under the impression that only Christian Fundamentalists homeschool their kids?


Being smart is useless if you can't operate in the most basic social situations - those that occur the moment they stray 10 feet from your view. Turn that 10 feet into 50 miles and 5 years, and you have one hell of a basket case. If they clear 10 years, then they may just make it in life. But that's 10 years they waste just adjusting to the real world you hid them from.

Picture the smartest person in the world sitting in a homemade jail cell. That's about it.

[shanek]

Originally posted by American
Being smart is useless if you can't operate in the most basic social situations

Provide evidence that homeschooled kids "can't operate in the most basic social situations," at least to a greater extent than government school educated kids.

[tamiO]

Originally posted by American



Being smart is useless if you can't operate in the most basic social situations - those that occur the moment they stray 10 feet from your view. Turn that 10 feet into 50 miles and 5 years, and you have one hell of a basket case. If they clear 10 years, then they may just make it in life. But that's 10 years they waste just adjusting to the real world you hid them from.

Picture the smartest person in the world sitting in a homemade jail cell. That's about it.

:D You are just yanking my chain. You can't be this ignorant.

[Suddenly]

Originally posted by shanek



Of course, I was "educated" in the government schools...

So was I, but then again...

I doubt anyone is ever really "educated" in any sort of school.

Education is something you do for yourself, and any kind of school you go to can be nothing but a mere tool to that end. Not that anyone likely disagrees with that, but It seems to me that many have an odd perspective of what schools should do. Unfortunately, most of these people wind up running the darn things.

Home schooling is something that needs to happen regardless of school attendance. If parents decide that the time spent at school is either counter-productive or better spent at home, then of course they should be able to pull the kids out. However, I can see the state having a legitimate interest in being sure the children recieve at least a basic education, being able to read and write, simple math and so on. The home schooled kids in my area (mainly extremely religious parents) still had to show up for occasional testing. That seems somewhat reasonable.

I did way more learning on my own then I did within the school system, and in fact I more or less "homeschooled" myself to a large extent my last year in high school as the district wouldn't supply me with a teacher for the A.P. calculus based physics course I wanted to take. They were nice enough to allow me to teach myself provided I could find a teacher willing to volunteer to give me periodic exams for grading purposes.

This doesn't mean the schools are useless. They do allow for social interaction, and more importantly can at least help you take that first step, as the hardest part of educating yourself is figuring out what exactly you don't know.

[Rob Lister]

Originally posted by shanek


Provide evidence that homeschooled kids "can't operate in the most basic social situations," at least to a greater extent than government school educated kids.

A study of some sort is necessary for that. The study of thread topic probably doesn't address that -- but the fact that it doesn’t is an indication, to me at least, that there either is not difference or the difference is not in the home school’s favor.

I look at what the study did address and what it did not. For example, the study address politics and community service. I've no doubt that a home schooled children excel in these areas, given the nature of my own bias as to those that home school. Nature of the beast. But why not post-education wages? That seems like a better metric.

Also, were the home schooled children compared with public school children having comparable economic status? It's misleading to compare apples and oranges. It might turn out that if – if they adjusted for that, the home schooled kids would come out a little behind.

BTW, I’m all for home schooling. I’d just like to get unbiased support for my belief.

[shanek]

Originally posted by Suddenly
I doubt anyone is ever really "educated" in any sort of school.

True, but the irony I was intending had to do with the fact that I knew this stuff before the government got around to teaching it to me.

Of course, I think it was Oscar Wilde who said, "The only time my education was interrupted was when I was in school."

Home schooling is something that needs to happen regardless of school attendance.

I agree 100%. But I can also see the advantage in sending one's child to a good school where he can be taught by someone versed in the subject.

Of course, our government school teachers aren't, always.

All middle school teachers in North Carolina have to teach physical science, which is required for middle school students in NC public schools. Unfortunately, over 80% have never taken a physical science course and many of those who have, have taken a course that is of no help to their students.

http://www.johnlocke.org/policy_reports/2003012933.html

Someone above said how horrible homeschooling was because the kids weren't being taught by someone who knew the subject. Seems to me the government schools, then, are horrible for exactly the same reason.

I did way more learning on my own then I did within the school system, and in fact I more or less "homeschooled" myself to a large extent my last year in high school

Heck, I've pretty much homeschooled myself every year since I graduated high school, including the years I spent in college. I learned a LOT more on my own than I ever did in school. And maybe that's the way it's supposed to be.

[Corwyn]

If you caught the Prime Time episode on Thursday night on cheating you have to give serious consideration to the actual validity of the grades given to a MORE than 50% of the public education scores. According to the report anywhere from
30-60% of high school AND college students cheat on exams and term papers on a regular basis and as many as 70% have admitted to cheating on at least some major tests!

Assuming that the primary reason most people home school is that they are not satisfied with public education, the overwhelming odds are that kids educated in this fashion
ACTUALLY earned their grades!

As for hiding from the real world! The real world changes ALL the time! 10 years ago if you knew anything about computers you HAD to be a NERD! Now those same "nerds" own and run half the world.

Corwyn

[shanek]

Originally posted by Rob Lister
A study of some sort is necessary for that. The study of thread topic probably doesn't address that -- but the fact that it doesn’t is an indication, to me at least, that there either is not difference or the difference is not in the home school’s favor.

Or the study just wasn't set up to test for that.

But why not post-education wages?

Considering that more of them are enjoying their life, and more of them are going through higher eduation, I would say that even if their wages aren't measurably higher than wouldn't be any kind of argument against homeschooling. They might be in a better position to choose a job where they can work less and be more involved with their families and communities.

Not everything comes down to dollar amounts, y'know.

[Rob Lister]

Originally posted by shanek


Or the study just wasn't set up to test for that.

No. It wasn't. Why not? Probably because it's too subjective to test. Agree? Disagree?



Considering that more of them are enjoying their life, and more of them are going through higher eduation, I would say that even if their wages aren't measurably higher than wouldn't be any kind of argument against homeschooling. They might be in a better position to choose a job where they can work less and be more involved with their families and communities.

Not everything comes down to dollar amounts, y'know. [/B]

I'm talking about an apples to apples comparision. That requires some sort of metric. The 'education' metric was actually a good one but it didn't address economic status. The 'freedom' aspect you seem to be implying is not a useful metric unless you can somehow make it objective.

[shanek]

Originally posted by Rob Lister
No. It wasn't. Why not? Probably because it's too subjective to test. Agree? Disagree?

No idea. What would you do? Ask people if they're satisfied with their social lives? A lot of social people have very active social lives yet are unsatisfied because they want more, whereas a lot of less social people are happy with the little bit that they have.

[Rob Lister]

Originally posted by shanek


No idea. What would you do? Ask people if they're satisfied with their social lives? A lot of social people have very active social lives yet are unsatisfied because they want more, whereas a lot of less social people are happy with the little bit that they have.

Thanks. That went to the second part of my reply which you did not address. I assume you're working on it.

[pgwenthold]

Originally posted by shanek
Come on, argue the data, not the source.

Did they survey the average income of the people who home school versus those who don't?

I wouldn't be surprised if that doesn't account for most of it.

[Rob Lister]

Originally posted by pgwenthold


Did they survey the average income of the people who home school versus those who don't?

I wouldn't be surprised if that doesn't account for most of it.


I might be a little surprised but not very much. If they didn't address that then it's a pretty big flaw in the study. The only way to find out is to give them nine bucks. Yea, right.

Besides, all such studies are worthless unless you first establish The multiple goals of education (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=1870435047#post1870435047)

[shanek]

Originally posted by pgwenthold
Did they survey the average income of the people who home school versus those who don't?

I wouldn't be surprised if that doesn't account for most of it.

I'd think it would have more to do with the ability of one parent to make enough money to live on, leaving the other one free to homeschool their kids, than it would with total income.

[Lemastre]

Placing much emphasis on the quality of a kid's social life is a misplaced concern and distraction when discussing any form of schooling. The first priority for those practicing home schooling surely is improving their kids' booklearning, not honing their social skills (excepting those parents who primarily want to sequester their kids from the secular view of things). At any rate, the society provided by many schools seems to feature snobbishness and hooliganism, and a kid would do well to avoid it. Nowadays, kids seeking contact with others can surely find more than they need in such places as Sunday school and church groups, boys' and girls' clubs or even scouting, as well as junior baseball and karate classes, etc. The numerous kids in my neighborhood attend various public and private schools, and some may be home-schooled. After school they meet for various games on our vacant lots. They seem to have plenty of interpersonal skills for people of their age.

[Jagged Blossom]

Originally posted by Lemastre
Placing much emphasis on the quality of a kid's social life is a misplaced concern and distraction when discussing any form of schooling. .... After school they meet for various games on our vacant lots.

I somewhat agree with your statement that socialization is nearly irrelevant when trying to determine the academic outcomes of one form of education vs another. If the only factor trying to be measured is how well students perform academically after home schooling vs public schooling, then social skills needs to be left out of the discussion.

I think, what has been spurred here, is a debate grown out of hurt feelings and harsh generalizations of how a homeschooled child will fair in adult life. To debate this in a context of homeschooled children vs publicly schooled schooled vs privately schooled children would take hours and hours. There are far too many variables influencing a child's behavior than can be assessed in one post.

I am mainly writing to address your comments that public schools provide an atmosphere of hooliganism and snobbishness. While I don't know precisely what your definition of snobbishness refers to, I would say that the creation of social cliques within schools is nothing different than the social cliques you will find at Sunday School, scouting, etc. Children are equally likely to band in groups as adults are...though they don't yet have the labels to address their groups by any particular name....and they are more fluid between one group to the next.

I don't think pulling a child out of public school will make them any less likely to experience hooliganism either. Most of my wild friends did their vandalism, etc. well beyond the boundaries of school property and would have NEVER thought once about causing their calamity during school hours. Their wild times were limited to hours when their parents should have been watching over them and it had very little, if anything, to do with their peer group at school In fact, I know of former Sunday school classmates who would defame our church bathrooms during Bible School.

My last comment to you is that you live in a very wonderful neighborhood. You are lucky to have a community so tightly knit that people feel comfortable letting their children associate with others on your block. The truth is, you are in the minority. Our nation no longer is made up of tiny communities standing by one another's sides to help raise the kids. Poll parents at most local schools...and see how many of them even KNOW more than few of their kids' friends' parents. It just doesn't happen anymore. People are too obsessed with their own lives to offer that sort of socialization to their children.

I agree strongly that if a child has access to all the things you mentioned, they will turn out socially well-developed. It's just highly unlikely that the majority of children will get the benefit of all of those social activities in this day in age.

[Hexxenhammer]

Originally posted by tamiO
I expect such comments from you, American, but I was surprised that Hex and Shuize chimed in with you. Perhaps you are all under the impression that only Christian Fundamentalists homeschool their kids? Color me schooled about home schooling Tami. I was pretty much under that impression. I apologize.





But man! That spelling bee girl was WEIRD.

[cbish]

As a high school teacher, I have a few thoughts. I have no studies in front of me. I'm only speaking antecdotally from my experiences.

The vast majority of home schooled, charter school students I encounter do very, very poorly. They have very poor skills and virtually no metacognitive ability.

I have had some excellent students who have been home schooled. But I'd say (mind you off the top of my head) it's less than 10%. It really depends on the educational level of the parents. Those top students all have one commonality; their parents have advanced degrees. The vast majority of my homeschooling parents have no education past high school. In short, they're not really qualified to teach anyone.

[Silicon]

If the people who ran this study thought it was scientifically valid at all were home-schooled, or are developing curriculum for home-schooling, well.....


Home-schooling's in worse trouble than I thought!


Looking around that site, I'm getting a strong whiff of woo. As in, believing in something, so building a study that proves it, without it being a fair test at all.

Hopefully Shanek, and the home-schooling movement both have better advocates than these people, who wouldn't know a scientific study from a hole in the ground.