extending the challenge to alien visitations

[Jac]

Hello, I wonder if the challenge would be extended to someone who had proof of alien visitation? I suppose that the body of an alien or parts of it would have to be provided or maybe the space craft or parts of it.

Cheers,

[Beady]

What would be the difference between aliens and Bigfoot. etc? Aren't those already covered?

[Pixel42]

http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html

At JREF, we offer a one-million-dollar prize to anyone who can show, under proper observing conditions, evidence of any paranormal, supernatural, or occult power or event.

In what way would alien visitors, if any ever did come to call on us, be paranormal, supernatural or occult?

[Jac]

I agree, not much difference. I don't think they are covered, My understanding is that only paranormal phenomena are covered.

The MDC is the great leveler, whenever some kook or self-deluded guru swears that he can do this or that with his psychic abilities the MDC is there to say put up or shut up. Why not extend that to alien visitations, isn't that one of the biggest on-going scam and a major distraction.

[Jac]

They are not, I am just wondering if the JREF would consider extending the challenge to that type of claim.

[SkepticScott]

Jac, the only way to find out for sure would be to write to challenge@randi.org and ask. I will guess that the answer will probably be "no". (I'm not affiliated with the JREF, so this is merely my personal opinion.)

I know the JREF once almost had a protocol in place for a person who claimed to be able to summon UFOs, making them appear on demand, but a preliminary test did not happen: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=40507

The problem is how can item X be proven to have come from space aliens? It might be something that stumps local experts, but the argument from ignorance is not going to win you $1M.

[Beady]

Actually, I don't think the Challenge is necessary, in the case of Cryptozoology. If you can produce an alien, Bigfoot, chupacabra, whatever, dead or alive, the Challenge wouldn't be even pocket change compared to what you'd get. I don't want to get into what would be considered as "proof" other than a complete creature.

[Jac]

I was thinking that someone in the administration would be monitoring these conversations and might provide a reply.

I think a complete alien creature or the space craft or a significant part of it would be evidence enough.

Could you make more money some other way perhaps? I think that the government would latch on to this pretty quickly, invoke national security and wrap everything up. If it was divulged to the JREF first maybe they would have the clout to do an independent investigation.

[Beady]

I think a complete alien creature or the space craft or a significant part of it would be evidence enough.

That's the problem. Define "significant." For some people (a lot of them, actually), scratches in a plaster cast of a Bigfoot footprint are proof-positive that the cast isn't a fake because those scratches could *only* have come from features of an actual foot. And so on. Nope, it has to be the whole thing, one way or the other.

Could you make more money some other way perhaps? I think that the government would latch on to this pretty quickly, invoke national security and wrap everything up.

Was it only a year or so ago, where two clowns claimed for a week or so to have Bigfoot in a freezer (right next to where they kept Prince Albert in a can - sorry)? How fast did you see the Gummint move in on that story? How many government expeditions have been sent after Bigfoot? As for alien's, the government stopped investigating UFOs back in the early '70s(?). Remember the "Alien Autopsy"? I'm not pooh-poohing the idea of government intervention or investigation, but it's already been done and is old news. They've already intervened and investigated, and come up dry. They're on to other things, now.

You want to make money off it? Stick it in a cage (or a glass-topped freezer, depending) and charge admission. Think I'm kidding? When you finish visiting the Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown, NY, wander down the road a couple of miles to the Farmers Museum, where the Cardiff Giant is on display. People have known it was a hoax for over a century, but they still pay to see him. Then, of course, there's always Barnum's "mermaid," etc.

[SkepticScott]

If it was divulged to the JREF first maybe they would have the clout to do an independent investigation.If you're worried about a government stepping in as soon as you reveal something, you'd be better off revealing it to major newspapers and television stations around the world. The JREF is a small organization without the clout to go against a government. Also, in regards to the MDC, IIRC the JREF isn't going to fund an investigation to help a person win their money (or, if you go by past performance, not win the MDC); the claimant would have to do that.

[wardenclyffe]

I was thinking that someone in the administration would be monitoring these conversations and might provide a reply.

I think a complete alien creature or the space craft or a significant part of it would be evidence enough.

Could you make more money some other way perhaps? I think that the government would latch on to this pretty quickly, invoke national security and wrap everything up. If it was divulged to the JREF first maybe they would have the clout to do an independent investigation.

We have no idea how often the folks in charge at JREF check in here. It doesn't seem to be very often. There are a number of other groups that offer cash prizes for proof of the paranormal. I have no idea what their stance on E.T.s qualifying for the prize is. You'd have to contact them to find out. I'll include a list below.

The JREF seems to be a very small core organization and do not necessarily do this type of investigation. Some of these other groups seem to have large volunteer forces who might do the type of "independent investigation" you are looking for (whether there's money on the line or not). So check them out.

All of these might be viable, but I'd point out number 2 on the list below (The Independent Investigations Group) has recently done some of the types of analysis you seem to be requesting (http://www.iigwest.org/investigations/meier/metal_analysis_deconstruction.html)

Don't limit yourself to them or the JREF, though. Check them all out.

Good Luck,
Ward

P.S. Here's the list:

There's the Australian Skeptics' AU$100,000 Prize
http://www.skeptics.com.au/features/prize/
They also offer AU$20,000 as a "Spotter's Fee"

There's the IIG's US$50,000 Challenge in California, USA
They now have affiliates in Atlanta, GA and Washington, DC and are developing affiliates in Denver, CO, Calgary, Canada and probably other places as well.
http://www.iigwest.org/challenge.html
They also offer US$5,000 as a "Finder's Fee"

There's the North Texas Skeptic's US$12,000 Challenge in the USA
http://www.ntskeptics.org/challenge/challenge.htm

There's Prabir Ghosh's 2,000,000 Rupee Challenge in India
http://rationalistprabir.bravehost.com/

There's the Swedish 100,000SeK prize offered by Humanisterna
http://www.humanisterna.se/index.php...d=27&Itemid=49

The Tampa Bay Skeptics offers a US$1000 prize in Florida, USA
http://www.tampabayskeptics.org/challenges.html

In Canada there's the CAN$10,000 from the Quebec Skeptics
http://www.sceptiques.qc.ca/activites/defi

In the UK, the ASKE organization offers £14,000
http://www.aske-skeptics.org.uk/challenge_rules.htm

Tony Youens in the UK offers £5,000
http://www.tonyyouens.com/challenge.htm

In Finland, Skepsis offers 10,000 Euros
http://www.skepsis.fi/haaste/

The Fayetteville Freethinkers in Arkansas, USA offer a US$1000 prize
http://fayfreethinkers.com/

There's a 1,000,000 Yuan prize in China offered by Sima Nan. This is his blog: http://blog.sina.com.cn/simanan

The Belgian SKEPP organization offers a 10,500 Euro prize
http://www.skepp.be/prijzen/de-sisyphus-prijs/

If you find any broken links, or know of any tests not on this list, please notify me in this thread.

[jojonete]

Hello, I wonder if the challenge would be extended to someone who had proof of alien visitation?This depends fully, completely, totally on the kind of "proof" we're talking about. Any true reasonable "hard" proof of alien visitation could be worked into presented as some MDC-type superpower. Consider the following examples: If aliens park their spaceship 1 meter (or 3 feet) over the ground, that would count as levitation. If aliens know super-advanced technology, ability to factorize large integers (several hundred digits each) would probably count for the MDC. If aliens communicate telepathically, ability to transmit thougts would count.Of course, if aliens can't do anything distinctly alien-like (i.e. if everything aliens do can also be done by humans), the reasonable conclusion is that they're just humans pretending to be aliens. Some examples could be: Someone claiming to be an alien because they can bend their arm in some strange shape. Someone claiming to be an alien because they have one extra finger in each hand. Some lights in the sky that look like they're from an alien spaceship. Some strange noises in the night that sound like an alien spaceship. Any kind of written document, photograph, video or audio recording, no matter what its content.As a final note, apply common sense to what I've said (e.g. if aliens' spaceship is a balloon, nobody's going to count it as "levitation"). Also, keep in mind that I don't speak for JREF (as mostly everyone here).

[Vic333]

I thought you were challenging aliens to invade us. Whew! :D