A rant about death and funerals...

[jimmygun]

I lost a friend last week. He was every cliche you can think of, bright, witty, funny to the nth degree, sunshine on two legs, an unapologetic practical joker and lover of life. He was also a dedicated husband and father that in all the years I knew him never uttered a mean word.

At the funeral the Anglican minister started the proceedures by asking some of the friends and family to speak about the life of my friend. It was an odd way to have the funeral go according to what we were normally used to. Each iterated about the fun loving and generous nature that had touched them all. There was laughter and smiles that my friend would have insisted on.

After the speakers were done the minister started his spiel. It was almost as if he were saying that...okay we got that out of the way and now a word from our sponsor...Jesus. He explained that it was alright not to just dwell on the happy times shared with my friend but that one should also think about the bad times too, and allow themselves to cry as Jesus did when he found out his friend Lazarus had died.

What a downer. Everyone including the immediate family had a look of surpise on their faces as if to say...why are you dragging us down? Just to sell us your bible stuff? The talk afterwards reflected the same thoughts from everyone.

Just a rant. I really hate when someone uses someone else for their own gain. Especially when the friends and family wanted to celebrate rather than mourn the life and death of my friend.

[jimlintott]

It would seem that many religous people have an agenda.

[rikzilla]

I lost a co-worker and friend of over 10 years a few years back. We used to have very frank and interesting discussions of life, death, politics, and religion. I knew him better than many of his own family. At his funeral a fundie minister brought in by his mother (he was unmarried) told us all that Kevin was with Jesus in heaven and that we should all be saved so we can join him there.

At that point I knew Kevin was really dead, 'cause if he had been faking it he'd have gotten up and walked out. The man was not just an atheist...he was a militant atheist! If I had not known that Kevin's mother hired the guy and NEEDED to hear his B-S I'd have shouted him down myself in the middle of the spiel. I was so pissed I had to walk out and did so in a noisy manner...later I lied and said I just needed a smoke....

The funny thing is that in our debates about religion I had always argued in favor of religion as I am a "soft" agnostic and feel that most people really need the crutch of religion to get them through life. He would never have stood for such a funeral...but in the end his funeral wasn't really about him...it was about consoling his mother. In the final analysis that's really all funerals are ever about.

-z

[jimlintott]

He would never have stood for such a funeral...but in the end his funeral wasn't really about him...it was about consoling his mother. In the final analysis that's really all funerals are ever about.

The sad thing is that apparently this man's mother didn't really know him. My guess is he didn't tell her he was atheist to spare her feelings. (Or, she knew, in which case I have no explanation for her actions.)

[Beleth]

Funerals aren't for the dead. They are for the living.

FWIW, I had an uncle who was very much like the kind of guy your friend was, Jimmy, and the funeral was at a Catholic church because the family was ostensibly Catholic, although they rarely if ever went to church. The service was very similar to the one you described - the family and friends came up and said wonderful things about him, then the priest came up and started doing the generic "I didn't really know this guy, but I can't say that, so I'll stand in front of you and bumble my way through this as best I can" homily, and we were all sitting there and thinking "dude, you have no idea who you are talking about."

I think it did help his parents, though, and his wife, and maybe his parents-in-law.

When I die... I don't know what I want to have done for me, to be honest. My parents' ashes will be interred in a memorial garden in the church we went to when I was growing up. When I was little I wanted a big marble headstone deal, you know, with angels blaring trumpets and my name in big 8-inch letters. Now I'm thinking that just getting my ashes scattered over something is enough.

[Johnny Pneumatic]

If medicine doesn't advance enough to stop my death, I'm giving my body to a med school, college or something.

[Cindy Windy]

Beleth, I agree with you. Funerals are for the living.

jimmygun, I thank you for starting this thread. I understand your pain. I had a similar experience, but with a different twist. For the record, I don't believe in the claims of any type of John Edward or Sylvia Brown.

The following event has weighed heavily on my mind. Not only because of the loss of a magnificent man, but more from the unbefitting way he was memorialized by an incognizant Catholic priest--especially to this former member.

My loyal and vastly intelligent father died in a place he didn't want to be in January. He was a skilled chemical engineer and manager who later focused on defense systems technology. Being privy to classified information made him careful in his speech. He was a loving, no-nonsense, unselfish, quiet, and generous man. He worked long hours, suffered a hellish commute, but made time to help his children with their homework. Any free moments were spent behind a mysterious dusty blue drape in the garage, building oscilloscopes or taking apart old electronic toys to repair and study them.

I share this background so the reader can see how completely out-of-line Father Whatshisname became at the memorial.(There was no funeral since my father wished to be cremated).

After a humorous and tender slideshow that demonstrated the dynamics of my Dad, and proud testaments given by his children, Father W. took the stand at the mortuary. Certainly the audience was prepared for psalms and “comforting” Bible quotes...standard
funeral faire. However, we were in for a surprise. Father W. (with a $300 donation from my Dad's joint-account in his pocket) presented himself as a medium. He said HE was “Steve.” (My father).

“This is Steve talking to you....” “This is Steve singing to you.” (Singing??!!!!WTF? ) He went on and on like this but I was so revolted and bilious by this shock, I blocked the rest from my mind.

He wasn’t speaking figuratively or poetically. He wasn’t being creative. This mediumship certainly wasn't 'sanctioned' by the Church. But Father W. insisted he had the ability to speak for my father. I looked around at my family wondering if this was a joke. All but one were enraptured. I wanted to stop him, to shout at the top of my lungs, “Cut the cr*p!” (One of my father’s expressions). Instead, I made eye contact with the priest, shaking my head angrily. Yet on and on he went, making more inane quotes he attributed to my father. Ludicrous dribble that hardly reflected my Dad’s intelligence.

I have tried to tentatively discuss Father W’s outlandish behavior with my siblings. Unfortunately, it made them uneasy. It seems my family, especially my mother, took great solace from his demonstration. I must respect their wishes.

I usually stay mute while wounded and inwardly seething. I’m grateful this thread allowed me to share my disappointment.

CW

[The GM]

Good gravy, Cindy. Your tale is so bizarre as to be unreal. (I'm not calling you a liar, btw, it sounds like you were immersed in bizarro world.) I can't even imagine a funeral service like the one you described. How did the other mourners react? Did anyone else think this was weird or out of line? All I can say is wow. People do some pretty unbelievable crap, but your story takes the cake. I'm sorry that an event that should have been a comfort turned into a circus.

[Taxman]

I don't have anything as bizarre to relate, but I do have an experience I found very disappointing.

A co-worker died of cancer about a year-and-a-half ago.

At her funeral the Lutheran minister went on about how my co-worker's faith was so strong she never lost it during her illness. He described the devil making many futile efforts to break her faith.

The disappointing part was he then said the devil gave her cancer to test her faith some more.

I always get a bit disgusted when the religious start talking about god and the devil as if these are real entities that they have some specific knowledge about. As if these entities talk to them. (Don't we have hospitals for people who hear voices like that?)

But it is the same old attitude of Don't blame god for your loved one dying of a disease, but be sure to thank him for anything good that happens.

My father had died earlier that year of a very nasty brain disease. He fell prey to it while I was out of the country, and by the time I got back he was no longer conscious. I never got a chance to say goodbye.

But my belief system (or lack of belief system?) does not send me to some charlatan to be told comforting words supposedly from my father. And for me there is no need to reconcile my worldview with his death from this disease. Random stuff happens. And when random stuff happens, it will happen to good people as well as bad.

But I guess that kind of view doesn't bring people into church praying and all. The ministers/pastors/priests/whatevers need to protect their job security.

[ReasonableDoubt]

Originally posted by jimmygun
I lost a friend last week. He was every cliche you can think of, bright, witty, funny to the nth degree, sunshine on two legs, an unapologetic practical joker and lover of life. He was also a dedicated husband and father that in all the years I knew him never uttered a mean word. My condolences. He sounds pretty special.

[Riddick]

W0Wzers, Cindy. I am honestly shocked at hearing that account. That doesn't sound like standard funeral fare, if you want my opinion. Although I wish I would have been there, I like freak show kind of stuff. But spiritism, gah, that is just almost to freakish even for me.

Personally, I think it's even out of bounds as to what christians expect at a funeral.
-------------
It is so disappointing to lose friends. But, myself, I just bite down hard and remember the verse in the bible (same one as in Pulp Fiction): I will carry out great vengeance on them and punish them in my wrath. Then they will know that I am the LORD, when I take vengeance on them.' " - Ezekiel 25:17.

You will see your friends again one day, and they will see you; if you are both believers. Or you can just be satisfied with this life and call it quits. "Heaven? BORING!!! (lots of vibrato here) I can hear you say. Eh, to each his own.

[Jas]

I went to the funeral of a friend, and they were playing Vince Gill at the service.

I turned to the friend next to me and said "Did Jesse like Vince Gill?". It really confused me, because Jesse really wasn't into country music as far as I could tell, and I though maybe that this was some previously unknown facet of him that i never knew about. The friend next to me replied,

"Well, they couldn't really play '99 Ways to Die' by MegaDeath, now could they?'

I started cracking up in the middle of the funeral, it was horrible.

I'm not sure I agree with ministers in funerals a lot of the time. Some people get ministers just because they feel that they ought to, but really, if they didn't know the person...best to get a funeral director or something instead, then they can only go by what the family tells them, as opposed to going off on tangents about religion without permission.

Let's face it, it's not Jesus who died that week.

[jimlintott]

These stories should serve as a reminder of why it is important to detail your wishes for when you die. I used to think that it wouldn't matter what my family did for me as I would be dead. An estate planner friend of mine pointed out that when you die your family is often distraught and confused and most of all would like to do what you would want them to. Don't leave them guessing as to what that is.

[farmermike]

Great thread
A few years ago a neighbor died with a brain tumour.He'd been in and out of remission for about seven years before it finally got him.A real nice guy and you could always have a laugh with him over something.He went through a real tough time with his failing health and trying to sell his farm.He told me once that he wished he'd never got into the farming business.I was mildly amused to see that his wife had a tacky farm scene put on the inside of his casket.Now Mark wasn't a church goer and I don't know what his beliefs were.The anglian minister they got to do the funeral went on and on about the usual salvation stuff,and I'll remember till the day I die he said "Now let's not be like Mark and Wait till it's too late".What a send off.

[Tom Morris]

I've discussed this with a few other people on the Internet, and I've come to the conclusion that I will put a clause in my will which states that anyone who tries to use my body, remains or name as part of a religious funeral or similar service will not be entitled to any part of my estate. The clause will state that any funeral or commerorative service must not be led by a religious leader, should not contain led religious worship or content and should not take place in a church or similar house of worship. And that anybody who tries to organise such a service will lose any inheritance rights. I might also put something in about religious schooling for (potential) children - words to the effect that if there are children left in care after my death, they should not be educated in any kind of religious school.

Why? Because if there is any kind of life after death, it'll be enormous fun to start it by watching people have to decide between money and their religious beliefs! :D

Also, organ donorship and medical research seem like a brilliant way to go.

[jimmygun]

I told my wife that I was hiring a hit man for whatever service she or my friends give me after I die. If anyone says anything even remotely religious sounding the hit man will walk immediately to that person and snap them in the eye with the knuckle of his outstretched hand. I am almost serious about this. It seems its the only way to preserve my dignity after I'm gone.

[Brian]

Originally posted by Tom Morris


Also, organ donorship and medical research seem like a brilliant way to go. Worth repeating. Donate your guts. It's the only important thing that can be done with your corpse.

[Filippo Lippi]

Only ever been to cremations, don't know how a burial goes

Bad - The vast majority of the funerals I've been to have been conducted by Anglican ministers who all say, "I never met X, but in the time I've spent with the family..." Followed by the, "they are at Jesus' right hand," even though I have never been to the funeral of a regular church goer. Then there are the obligatory depressing hymns or, worse, the "cheerful" hymn. Nottingham isn't Wales, we don't know how to sing in Church, it sounds bleddy* awful. Then all file out and shake the clammy hand of the vicer who's been phoning this stuff in for years. And I mustn't forget the prayers "thanking" god. Truly awful

Good - I have been to two 'good' funerals; one officiated by a speaker from the Humanist Society and the other with a methodist minister who agreed to do a secular service. There were funny stories reminding everyone what great people the deceased were and there was music that everyone knew and could sing a long to; "Fields of gold" wasn't my cup of tea, but the deceased liked it and his wife likes it and every time I hear it I'll think of them in a good way.



I'm told by someone in the catering industry that the best funerals are Jamaican funerals - the form is to play some decent tunes, get a big crate of rum and party until both are gone. I like that idea; I'm going to leave some money in my will to hire The Plough Pub in Basford, Nottingham, I'll burn some CDs with the happiest Soul tunes in my collection before I go and I'll bill it as "Nothing to do with Filippo Lippi at all."


*more Nottingham dialect, who says this place isn't educational?

[Filippo Lippi]

Originally posted by Brian
Worth repeating. Donate your guts. It's the only important thing that can be done with your corpse.

And that, yes

[rachaella]

I've talked of this before on here, but when my grandfather died the a**hole priest who did the funeral spend a good 15 minutes talking about how he was in purgatory and maybe if we all prayed hard for him he'd make it to heaven. The church also wouldn't a really good friend of the family's get up and sing his favorite song, Danny Boy, but my uncle ended up sneaking it in there anyway. I really never want to attend another catholic funeral in my life.

[triadboy]

Originally posted by rachaella
I've talked of this before on here, but when my grandfather died the a**hole priest who did the funeral spend a good 15 minutes talking about how he was in purgatory and maybe if we all prayed hard for him he'd make it to heaven.


The Catholic Church (in the Middle Ages) used to sell Indulgences - "Get Out of Purgatory Free" cards - to dying believers, in return for their estates.

[Thomas]

Interesting thread.

"I barely knew Phillip, but as a clergyman I have absolutely no problem with telling all his most intimate friends all about him" - Clergyman at Fry's funeral, Futurama, 'The sting' (S5E9).


/thomas

[elliotfc]

Originally posted by jimmygun
After the speakers were done the minister started his spiel. It was almost as if he were saying that...okay we got that out of the way and now a word from our sponsor...Jesus. He explained that it was alright not to just dwell on the happy times shared with my friend but that one should also think about the bad times too, and allow themselves to cry as Jesus did when he found out his friend Lazarus had died.

I think that is sensible. It is human to cry. Of course people have the right to think about what they want, but life is more than good times.

What a downer. Everyone including the immediate family had a look of surpise on their faces as if to say...why are you dragging us down? Just to sell us your bible stuff? The talk afterwards reflected the same thoughts from everyone.

I go to about 100 funerals a year. When a family pays a church to have a funeral held within the church, ummm, well, I think there is tacit understanding that the "bible stuff" will be sold. The family has every right to ask the minister/priest to either limit his remarks, not speak of certain things, etc.

I am sorry for the death of your friend, and I am sorry that the funeral service was not well received by the family. I think that when a funeral is held in a Christian church, certain expectations would go along with that.

-Elliot

[Thomas]

Originally posted by triadboy


The Catholic Church (in the Middle Ages) used to sell Indulgences - "Get Out of Purgatory Free" cards - to dying believers, in return for their estates.

I will sell you all indulgences to insure that you're not gonna go to Sylvia Browne's afterlife. I'll hereby give them to you all for free. But, if you should have an estate you would like to give me in return anyway, your welcome to do so, i'll pass it on to JREF :)


/thomas

[Hexxenhammer]

My grandpa had an interesting funeral, the likes of which I'm sure most people never see. Grandpa was never baptized or set foot in a church unless he was at a wedding or funeral. He had no use for religion of any kind. But he was a lifetime member and big fat donor for the Elks club (ya know, like waterbuffalo lodge on the Flintstones). So when he died, he had an official Elks funeral ceremony, which took place at the local Elks club. It was presided over by my grandpa's lawyer, who was also an Elks member. Problem was, he was a big-time drunk. So he's up there, slurring and stumbling through all this phony secret society Elks crap, making no sense at all (I'm sure it wouldn't have made much sense read correctly). My uncle was being physically held by his wife so he didn't run up to the podium and knock the guy out. Mom was pretty sure Grandpa would have found the whole thing hilarious. I do in retrospect.

[Batman Jr.]

When I die, I want all my loved ones to skip the funeral crap with me. If they insist on doing at least something involving my putrefying carcass then I'd like them to throw it out of an airplane at about 30,000 feet so that it should land in a coffin on the ground, you know, so it could be kind of like that whole resurrection thing in reverse.

[farmermike]

Karen
My parents attended a burial service recently and they thought the Christian minister put it quite well, when he said, " A lot of people think this is the end, but it's not." Why do I feel like I'm dangling a raw steak in front of a pack of hungry dogs?

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by jimmygun

Just a rant. I really hate when someone uses someone else for their own gain. Especially when the friends and family wanted to celebrate rather than mourn the life and death of my friend. Well, maybe he was just unaccustomed to people being happy at someone's funeral? Sort of like asking a carptenter to do the plumbing in the house when he hasn't done it before. Of course it's possible he could of had an agenda too.

[cbish]

I view a funeral/memorial as a very personal experience for the family and friends of the deceased. As a teacher in a very large school I've lost dozens of my students over my career. What really bugs me is when a student dies, all of the sudden, the entire campus was his/her best friend. (in reality, they just want to get out of class). I find this completely disingenuous.

Incidently, I've made my own plans. 1) I want to be buried in a canvas bag (Calif. state minimum). 2) I want to be tossed in the air once for every year of my age. And finally, for every foot of earth shoveled on me, everyone gets to jump in and pack it down.

You're all invited.....bring beer.

[Hexxenhammer]

My funeral plans are: Cremation, half the ashes buried next to Mrs. Hex or next to where Mrs. Hex will be, the other half of my ashes are to be shipped to the moon when financially possible and mixed with the lunar soil.

And no funeral in a church, no pastor, no god talk, and make sure to cut everything useful out of me before hand.

[Beanbag]

In my lighter moments, I've declared that I want my ashes sprinkled over the carpet, and then vacuumed up five minutes later, leaving a clean, fresh scent.

On a more practical note, while dealing with all the "issues" of being treated for throat cancer ( completely cut out and thoroughly irradiated away at this point, knock on wood ), I decided the best thing would be to have my ashes tossed from a hillside in a well-remembered grasslands in Texas. I've always thought that cemetaries and being buried were a fairly useless ritual and waste of real estate.

Regards;
Beanbag

[cbish]

I saw on the news (probably 15 years ago) someone dumping ashes from the bleachers at Wrigley Field onto the warning track during a Cubs game.:D

[Filippo Lippi]

You know the story of Steve McQueen's ashes?

Well, he wanted to them to be scattered from his old biplane into the pacific ocean. The guy entrusted to do the thing opens the urn and throws the ashes to the winds. Unfortunately, the winds blow the last remains of the actor back into the open cockpit, most of them lodging themselves insides the pilot's flying suit.


edited to add: this from an interview from the pilot of the plane

[Tom Morris]

Originally posted by Fillipo Lippi
You know the story of Steve McQueen's ashes?

Well, he wanted to them to be scattered from his old biplane into the pacific ocean. The guy entrusted to do the thing opens the urn and throws the ashes to the winds. Unfortunately, the winds blow the last remains of the actor back into the open cockpit, most of them lodging themselves insides the pilot's flying suit.

Seen The Big Lebowski? :D

"Donny was a good bowler, and a good man. He was one of us. He was a man who loved the outdoors... and bowling, and as a surfer he explored the beaches of Southern California, from La Jolla to Lio Carria and... up to... Pizmo. He died, like so many young men of his generation, he died before his time. In your wisdom, Lord, you took him, as you took so many bright flowering young men at Khe Sanh, at Langdok, at Hill 364. These young men gave their lives. And so would Donny. Donny, who loved bowling. And so, Theodore Donald Karabozoz, in accordance with what we think your dying wishes might well have been, we commit your final mortal remains to the bosom of the Pacific Ocean, which you loved so well. Good night, sweet prince."

Best. Movie. Ever.

[uruk]

When I was a budding homo sapien, I pondered becoming a mortician. Don't get me started on what a load of crap the funerary industry is! necrophilia not withstanding.

I found out the cheapest way of disposing your mortal coil is to donate it to a university. They pick it up, used it, burn it and send the ashes to whom ever wants it. All on the universities tab.

I've often told my friends that I wanted my ashes baked into a cake and served at the wake. So remember: don't eat the cake at my funeral!!!!

for something interesting to do with ashes, check out celestis.

[diddidit]

For me, take whatever's still useful, and compost the rest. That's assuming you ever find my body; I'd like my epitaph to end with "his remains were never found," or, better yet, "his craft became his tomb; his remains will forever orbit Jupiter."

did

[cbish]

uruk wrote:
I've often told my friends that I wanted my ashes baked into a cake and served at the wake. So remember: don't eat the cake at my funeral!!!!

That would make one gritty cake! Got milk?

[zultr]

Good thread.

Originally posted by Beleth
Funerals aren't for the dead. They are for the living.

True. But it’s also true that if the funeral isn’t an honest reflection of the person being buried, a lot of the living might be pissed off as much as others are comforted.


Originally posted by bewareofdogmas
If medicine doesn't advance enough to stop my death, I'm giving my body to a med school, college or something.

I always thought this was kind of appealing (especially if you’re into recycling):

http://www.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/10/31/body.farm/


When I was in Jr. High, I read a book by John Powers called “The Unoriginal Sinner and the Ice Cream God” (I’m willing to bet that book spawned a few atheists). In the first chapter, the protagonist recalled attending a funeral as a boy. The funeral home director began to wrap things up by announcing that everyone should take one last look at the departed, and then (while motioning towards the door) “pass out.” The character began a fit of uncontrollable hysterical laughter and at the end of the funeral an old woman scolded him; “I hope when you die, someone laughs at your funeral.” But in response, his only thought was “I hope everyone laughs at my funeral.” That pretty much sums up my view.

[uruk]

That would make one gritty cake! Got milk?
I don't think anyone would notice it in a carrot cake, but then noone would eat it.

[dmarker]

Originally posted by uruk
When I was a budding homo sapien, I pondered becoming a mortician. Don't get me started on what a load of crap the funerary industry is! necrophilia not withstanding.

I found out the cheapest way of disposing your mortal coil is to donate it to a university. They pick it up, used it, burn it and send the ashes to whom ever wants it. All on the universities tab.

I've often told my friends that I wanted my ashes baked into a cake and served at the wake. So remember: don't eat the cake at my funeral!!!!

for something interesting to do with ashes, check out celestis.

But I want my skeleton defleshed and mounted after they're done with me. I'm sure that budding physical anthropologists can have a great time trying to guess what I did during my life based upon my bones.

Part of my funerary plans is the avoidance of any grave, urn, et. My plans are to have me stripped for usable parts, studied by med students, then studied by anthropologists.

My husband wants to be cremated and flushed down the toilet.

[MLynn]

This thread is awesome - it brings to mind the funeral of a friend who was very troubled and took his how life the day after my hubby talked to him (I think hubby was the last person to speak with him). Our friend had so much to live for but would/could not accept any help, not even from Hubby who talked with him almost every day until his death.

The service was held at a methodist church, but was not really religious in tone. What was great about it was the microphone that was set up so that family and friends could share their thoughts about their dear loved one. Hubby read a poem he had written and shared some of his friendship experiences. The service was very warm, human and moving.

[rachaella]

I had to write about this very subject last semester in Death and Dying and I came up with a nice plan for the memorial service (even made a nice program up) with songs to be played and/or sung and poems to be read. As for the body, I decided I'd donate it to science and even found a nice company to do it through. I don't even really care what gets done with it as long as it serves humanity well. If anyone wants to get a nice idea of what might happen to cadavers, this book is quite fascinating Stiff: The Curious Lives of Human Cadavers (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0393050939/qid=1084641707/sr=8-1/ref=pd_ka_1/102-7768671-2916127?v=glance&s=books&n=507846)

[bluess]

I've gone to some unintentionally hilarious funerals, featuring bizarre behavior by ministers and/or relatives. The best funeral I went to was officiated by the minister at a Hindu temple, who actually interviewed friends and family about the deceased prior to giving the eulogy. My husband, mother and myself have each promised the other that no service will be held. Donation, cremation, and get on with life.