Canada doesn't evolve

[Peter Morris]

Whenever I click on the link Randi gave us I just get a page saying "On a well deserved vacation - we'll return with some new surprises"

I presume this is some sort of eror page.

Does anyone know what this article is about?

[jimlintott]

I just asked my son who graduates from high school this year about his first year of biology. He says that they took evolution and abiogenesis but there was no mention of either ID or creationism.

[Batman Jr.]

I remember that my biology teacher had mentioned certain caveats about Creationism conflicting with Darwinism, but it seemed she only did so in order to quell the anxieties of the more religious students in my class.

[Peter Morris]

But what's the cansadian article about? Anyone?

[Batman Jr.]

The Canadian article is about a guy in Canada who found that most people he knew had even less than a superficial idea of what Darwinism is, and that these people, even if they had previously acknowledged the validity of evolution, would be easily swayed into believing the most incredulous arguments put forth by the creationists.

[valis]

Hey how 'bout if I toss a bomb?

The canadians don't take on the evolution/creation debate, that shouldn't suprise us. The war on terror shows that they are afraid to take on anything.

:13:
Canada says "meow".

[walthrup48]

Originally posted by Peter Morris
Whenever I click on the link Randi gave us I just get a page saying "On a well deserved vacation - we'll return with some new surprises"

I presume this is some sort of eror page.

Does anyone know what this article is about? I can't link to the whole article for some reason, but I'm sure it's this one:

Ed Anger: Stop Teaching Our Kids This Evolution Claptrap!
Tuesday April 20, 2004

I'm madder than Adam with a one-inch fig leaf at how these left-wing heathens, atheists and agnostics are trying to stuff this evolution baloney down our kids' throats! .....

[Kess]

Originally posted by valis
Hey how 'bout if I toss a bomb?
The canadians don't take on the evolution/creation debate, that shouldn't suprise us. The war on terror shows that they are afraid to take on anything.
Provocative!

Let's see ... Canadian troops are playing a major role sorting out the mess left behind in Afghanistan - see http://www.canada-afghanistan.gc.ca/menu-en.asp

(Their efforts don't get into the news much; perhaps they need to raise their profile by shooting/bombing/torturing a few civilians...)

[valis]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kess

Provocative!

Let's see ... Canadian troops are playing a major role sorting out the mess left behind in Afghanistan - see http://www.canada-afghanistan.gc.ca/menu-en.asp

[b](Their efforts don't get into the news much; perhaps they need to raise their profile by shooting/bombing/torturing a few civilians...)

News flash!!!!!!!!!!!!!! People get hurt and killed in war, sometimes even innocent people. From what I can tell this is about the nicest war, on our part, ever fought.

How nice of you to send folks to Afghanistan, now how bout going nuts and turning over our deserters.

[Kess]

Originally posted by valis
How nice of you to send folks to Afghanistan, now how bout going nuts and turning over our deserters.
Valis - You've lost me there. I'm not actually Canadian - I'm in the UK - but just happen to be familiar with the Canadian mission in Afghanistan. I know nothing about deserters - can you post a link?

[valis]

<QUOTE>

Valis - You've lost me there. I'm not actually Canadian - I'm in the UK - but just happen to be familiar with the Canadian mission in Afghanistan. I know nothing about deserters - can you post a link?</QUOTE>


http://www.notinourname.net/troops/canada-refuge-7feb04.htm

That popped up when I did a Google and it has the basic story.
I do belive there is a second person also being sheltered in Canada. Sorry I really wish I had more time to put into my posts but never have a spare moment.

BTW: I meant to mention earlier-as to any 'mess' we left in Afghanistan we were looking out for our interest by toppling the Taliban. Anything extra we do is purely voluntary and extra credit on our part.

Our to put it more simply: This is World War Three, the goal is to defeat those who would like to destroy western society, not to run a welfare service.

[KelvinG]

Originally posted by valis
Hey how 'bout if I toss a bomb?

The canadians don't take on the evolution/creation debate, that shouldn't suprise us. The war on terror shows that they are afraid to take on anything.

:13:
Canada says "meow".

Just out of curiousity, tough guy, why aren't you over there doing your part and fighting the war on terror? You seem ready to call others cowards, yet I'm willing to guess you aren't willing to put your own ass on the line.
Perhaps it's Valis who says "meow."

[TwoShanks]

It's a toss between "Perhaps he be a troll" and "You are American's sockpuppet, and I claim my $100".

[valis]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by KelvinG


Just out of curiousity, tough guy, why aren't you over there doing your part and fighting the war on terror? You seem ready to call others cowards, yet I'm willing to guess you aren't willing to put your own ass on the line.
Perhaps it's Valis who says "meow."



A. That is a lazy argument. I did not suggest that every single citizen of Canada go to Iraq and fight. I suggested that they lack the courage to go to war as a country.

2. I served in the U.S. military in peace time, wasn't my fault there was no war, sorry. Did my four years had fun and got out. Am currently too old for enlistment guidlines, but again I shouldn't even discuss that as the argument is silly. Everyone who is in favor of the war does not have to pack up and go fight to be consistent.

C. To put it another way- do you favor the space program? Then why don't you get the nessacary training and apply to be an astronaut? Oh chicken eh?

Part four. Sorry it just really bothers me that there is a real, in our face danger to westeren society as we know it and a large part of the westeren world seems content to lay low and hope it goes away. It ain't goin away on it's own.

[Gregory]

(deleted to try not to derail this thread even further)

[KelvinG]

Originally posted by valis
[QUOTE]Originally posted by KelvinG
[b]

Just out of curiousity, tough guy, why aren't you over there doing your part and fighting the war on terror? You seem ready to call others cowards, yet I'm willing to guess you aren't willing to put your own ass on the line.
Perhaps it's Valis who says "meow." [b]



A. That is a lazy argument. I did not suggest that every single citizen of Canada go to Iraq and fight. I suggested that they lack the courage to go to war as a country.

2. I served in the U.S. military in peace time, wasn't my fault there was no war, sorry. Did my four years had fun and got out. Am currently too old for enlistment guidlines, but again I shouldn't even discuss that as the argument is silly. Everyone who is in favor of the war does not have to pack up and go fight to be consistent.

C. To put it another way- do you favor the space program? Then why don't you get the nessacary training and apply to be an astronaut? Oh chicken eh?

Part four. Sorry it just really bothers me that there is a real, in our face danger to westeren society as we know it and a large part of the westeren world seems content to lay low and hope it goes away. It ain't goin away on it's own.

We didn't go to war as a country because we had the foresight to see that it was a bullsh*t war started by a moron. Remember the WMDs? Of course you don't. Lapdogs like yourself only shape the facts to fit the jingoisitic crap you spew.
Here's where you know claim it was never about the WMDs but was really about freeing the country from Saddam. You lapdogs are predictable.

Just because other countries (ie. the USA) are stupid enough to engage in conflicts that are illegal and wrong doesn't mean that every other country has to fall in line.

We were intelligent enough to realize that the war in Afghanistan was worth waging and we have offered our support on that.
Of course, now you try and claim that the war in Iraq is part of the war on terror. Absolute rubbish. It is creating a war on terror as your country has stirred the pot and inflamed US hatred even more. But spare us the crap about how your country is brave and noble and other countries who don't agree are cowards.
We are the brave ones for sticking to our guns in something we believe in.
I have spoken, lapdog.

Now forgive me Peter Morris as I have derailed this thread totally. My apologies and I will don't discuss this particular topic again in this thread.

[PygmyPlaidGiraffe]

Originally posted by Batman Jr.
The Canadian article is about a guy in Canada who found that most people he knew had even less than a superficial idea of what Darwinism is, and that these people, even if they had previously acknowledged the validity of evolution, would be easily swayed into believing the most incredulous arguments put forth by the creationists.

At first when I started to read the above article I couldn't help but smile. After all, this is the same magazine that features "breaking news" like "Your Spouse Could Be a Space Alien," and "Belgium Destroyed by Rogue Asteroid." But then it slowly started to dawn on me that the author of this article, whether he sincerely believes what he's writing or not, is expressing the exact same sentiment that millions, perhaps hundreds of millions, of others share.

Ah many people believe this so this is true, even if the article was in a "reputable" source such as this one.


What has really brought all this home for me though, is a conversation I had with my 18- year-old brother-in-law recently. I have to admit I have always felt fairly smug about living in Canada, where the evolution/creation debate has never, to my knowledge, been an issue. But when I spoke with him about it, he couldn't actually remember evolution ever really being explained in his science class, and he's taking Biology!

He couldn't remember huh. How much does anyone remember about school, about the many hours of note taking, listening to lectures, and reading textbooks. Nope nothing of note comes to mind for myself, though that is not evidence of a poor education system.


This got me to wondering, so I took a small poll of friends and family to see how much the people around me really know about this scientifically-accepted phenomenon. The answer is embarrassing. While pretty much everyone I know accepts that evolution is basically true, with a few notable exceptions, not one person could tell me anything about it. And when I took the "devil's advocate" position and raised some of the more prevalent creationist arguments, the response I got suggested that at least most of them could be easily swayed by a convincing, but false, suggestion. It seems that Canada has avoided the debate by simply not taking part in teaching our high school students where we come from. After all, isn't that when we start asking?
What are the fields of expertise of these people? I doubt that that they apply what they learned in high school biology to any large degree to their current jobs.

I think this gentleman may have been lazy about the research he did. He polled his friends and familiy? Why didn't get in contact with his school board or province's Dept of Education to ask them to send information on the curriculum? The curriculum is readily available for public scrutiny.


here is Alberta's for example

PDF file

Alberta Learning Bio SR High Program 1998 (http://www.learning.gov.ab.ca/k_12/curriculum/bySubject/science/bio2030.pdf)

Of Note is Bio 30's Unit 3 in regards to Cells, Chromosomes and DNA. Though the Unit overview does not specifically state that students will come to understand and know that Evolution is a fact, (it does not even name the well evidenced Theory by name)it does encourage students to develop



"an ability to use the skills and thinking processes associated with the practice of science,..."p.55

and further on, not to diminish the stated goals of the overview

"The STS connections in this unit illustrate:

- the central role of evidence in the accumulation of evidence and the way proposed theories may be supported, modified, and refuted" plus other goals.

So, the course focuses not on feeding kids information (it is not dogmatic in its approach), but rather attempts to develop in students the skills to follow process, to gather and examine evidence and the role that evidence plays in the scientific process.




If in the curriculum the word evolution does not appear, I fail to see how this is evidence that

Canada has avoided the debate by simply not taking part in teaching our high school students

[Blondin]

I would also like to refute the claims of that article. I grew up in Manitoba and my (3) kids were schooled in Ontario. In both provinces genetics and the process of evolution are certainly a part of the high-school science curriculum.
Manitoba Senior 4 (grade 12) Biology (http://www.edu.gov.mb.ca/ks4/cur/science/bio40s/main/bio40s1.html)
Ontario grades 11 & 12 (see page 75) (http://www.edu.gov.on.ca/eng/document/curricul/secondary/descript/descri9e.pdf)
I have a friend who teaches science at a Catholic high-school and we have discussed how, even in their science curriculum, they talk about 'evidence' and what is supported by testing and observing, not what it says in the bible.

[valis]

Originally posted by KelvinG


We didn't go to war as a country because we had the foresight to see that it was a bullsh*t war started by a moron.

G.W.Bush graduated Yale and passed flight school in the USAF and was allowed to become a fighter pilot. Say what you want about his beliefs but people with high IQs do not do those things. So moron is just empty name calling.

Remember the WMDs? Of course you don't. Lapdogs like yourself only shape the facts to fit the jingoisitic crap you spew.
Here's where you know claim it was never about the WMDs but was really about freeing the country from Saddam. You lapdogs are predictable.

ERRRRRRRRRRNT. Wrong again.
1. Remember the WMDs well, the entire time Mr. Bush was mentioning them I was saying "I wish he would quite mentioning them, what if on some off chance they aren't there" Then I would think "nahhh, never happen". Whoops they either weren't there or they at least weren't as abundant as we thought. WMD's were political cover to invade Iraq. That said I think GW really thought they were there. I think everyone thought they were there. The reason we invaded Iraq is to get a U.S. military presence into that part of the world and to have a strong show of force. Iraq was kind enough to give us permission to invade years ago so they were the lucky ones that got it.

2. And speaking of lazy name calling you do seem to do a lot of it with the lapdog etc.

Just because other countries (ie. the USA) are stupid enough to engage in conflicts that are illegal and wrong doesn't mean that every other country has to fall in line.

No but the war has to be fought so by sitting out you are trying to reap the benifits without any of the sacrafice. Or you are just trying to deny the reality of the situation.

We were intelligent enough to realize that the war in Afghanistan was worth waging and we have offered our support on that.
Of course, now you try and claim that the war in Iraq is part of the war on terror. Absolute rubbish. It is creating a war on terror as your country has stirred the pot and inflamed US hatred even more. But spare us the crap about how your country is brave and noble and other countries who don't agree are cowards.
We are the brave ones for sticking to our guns in something we believe in.
I have spoken, lapdog.



YOU HAVE SPOKEN- we'll fan my brow!!!! A statement like that really means something, especially on the 'net. </p>



The war in Iraq is part of the war on terror. The war that started in the 1970's with the Iranian revolution. The US could not stir anymore hatred. For Gods sake look at some of the terror attacks over the years, the hatred is there and real and inescapable. The people we are fighting will settle for nothing less than the destruction of the west and would really like to kill every jew and christian on the face of the earth. (especiallly the jews). Don't belive it? Look at the record. </p>



One simple example- L. Klinghoffer(sp?)</p>


NOW I HAVE SPOKEN, AND IN ALL CAPS TO BOOT!</p>




Now forgive me Peter Morris as I have derailed this thread totally. My apologies and I will don't discuss this particular topic again in this thread. [/B]

[valis]

G.W.Bush graduated Yale and passed flight school in the USAF and was allowed to become a fighter pilot. Say what you want about his beliefs but people with high IQs do not do those things.

Of course I meant _low_ IQ. Good thing everyone here knows Freud has been dis-credited! :)

[thaiboxerken]

I don't think Bush took a vote with the USA public asking if we wanted to war with Iraq.

What kind of courage does it take to squish a country that has insignificant military resources compared to ours anyway?

[valis]

No Bush did not take a vote, this is a represenative democracy, we don't all vote on every decision.

It takes a lot of courage to do what Bush is doing. He very easily could have ousted the Taliban and declared victory over terrorism. People do not want to face the reality of the situation and he is forcing them to, not an easy thing to do.

[Kitty Chan]

Maybe it depends a bit when one went to school. Yearsss ago in my grade 7 class in Alberta we took evolution and creation equally with no emphaisis on either.

I dont remember any arguements. My husbands class in BC had a debate. Later on in high school bio creation was not allowed to be presented.

But evolution was presented. Scientists no longer agreeed totally with Darwin because they had found new things since then, that put holes in his theories. But they were sure it would all be sorted out soon so we went with it.

I have to say that due to those holes and existance of monkeys at the time, stopped me from believing in evolution. It just didnt tie together correctly enough. Our zoo had a cave man to now display which explained it nicely. But the lack of actual caveman skeletons always stopped me short. There is entire dinosaurs that have been found and I live near Tyrell which is one of the best.

So, I guess its fair to say that evolution was taught, but perhaps because of those weaknesses its something thats hard to believe in. Thus, why no one seems to think about it.