Diversity/tolerance classes

[Travis]

At the local high school some of the kids have decided it is "cool" to spray paint swastikas on the pavement. This has unsettled some of the kids and upset some of the parents. So this all goes up before the school board who now want to force the students into more "diversity/tolerance" classes.

Now.......maybe I'm cynical but I'm thinking that if a kid actually holds abjectly racist viewpoints (which might not even be the case here as kids are known to do stupid things like painting swastikas just for kicks) I don't think making them watch a video on a rainbow of people standing on a grassy hill holding hands and singing will do any good.

Well, that was how the videos went back when I was in school. Today they probably have a bitching synth/pop soundtrack.

Is there any hard data on this stuff? I just can't see a kid raised in a house where it is commonly accepted knowledge that the Jews control everything deciding dad is wrong because of a class at school.

[Sledge]

Sounds to me like those kids have already won. "Yay, we've made people react to our stupidity!"

[Sam.I.Am]

This is an OUTRAGE!!! What's next? FEMA death camps with cattle cars lined up next to them?

</nutter mode>

In all seriousness though I do agree that those classes will do little, if anything, to keep kids from doing dumb stuff like this for attention. It may however give some other kids ideas on how they can get attention. Even back in my day where they showed very graphic films during drivers ed with names like "Blood on the Highway" and 'Jack and Mary plummet off of a cliff while drinking and driving at makeout point" they were mocked at the end of classes. Some things cannot be taught with just a film and a stern lecture/warning of what not to do.

[AvalonXQ]

It's almost certainly just to placate the parents.

The kids almost certainly did it for attention/outrage, not to try to send any sort of articulate message. As long as the kids are educated as to why the symbol is seen as hateful, the school has done its job.

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Of course, it will depend on how the class is run, but I learned quite a lot in the diversity class I went to. It wasn't really about reforming skin heads, but more like getting rid of basic ignorance. Lots of sharing experience (and pet peeves).

I guess it would only work with a diverse group. My high school was 95% White, and there were quite a few swastikas and racist comments I heard. But I'm sure there could have been gender talk.

But, of course, for most of us the swastika didn't mean we hated jews :p .

[crimresearch]

It's almost certainly just to placate the parents.

The kids almost certainly did it for attention/outrage, not to try to send any sort of articulate message. As long as the kids are educated as to why the symbol is seen as hateful, the school has done its job.



Highly unlikely that these things are done because no one ever told them why it was wrong.

If they didn't already know why it would provoke sufficient outrage, they probably wouldn't have chosen a swastika.

[truethat]

It isn't to teach them a lesson or to placate the parents. It's a full on CYA to make sure the school cannot be held liable for anti semitic acts.

Here's an example. My sons school sent me a note the other day. Turns out the senior class planned a field trip of their own with a bunch of kids sneaking out of town to Atlantic City or something.

Now this has been in the works for months. The only reason the school notified us is so that we could not hold them liable. They made sure they emphasized this in the letter.

They could care less.

[joesixpack]

Wow, what's the ethnic/racial/religious makeup of that school?

I don't think it will do much to change the mind of a young skinhead/neonazi, but it may make other kids take a harder look at their own attitudes.

[Travis]

The other thing here is that as long as you keep making a huge deal out of painted swastikas they will keep doing it. They find that button that makes you jump and they just keep hitting it.

[Caper]

The other thing here is that as long as you keep making a huge deal out of painted swastikas they will keep doing it. They find that button that makes you jump and they just keep hitting it.

Agreed. I don't know why we give idiots that kind of power. Kind of reminds me of the Koran burning guy.

[Caper]

Wow, what's the ethnic/racial/religious makeup of that school?

I don't think it will do much to change the mind of a young skinhead/neonazi, but it may make other kids take a harder look at their own attitudes.

The probably aren't even skin heads. Some people just want a reaction.

[Sam.I.Am]

The probably aren't even skin heads. Some people just want a reaction.

Pretty much. Think about when you were a kid and what you and your classmates level of interest/knowledge was regarding politics and such. They don't tend to pick up on nuances but they can pick up on the buzzwords and symbols without understanding what they really mean.

"Swastika = Bad guys who are really disliked by just about everyone. Lets draw one and see what happens... Stuff happens... Hey look, it got some attention!"

Such is the mentality of a lot of teenagers.

[fuelair]

Diversity/tolerance classes

Waste of time on the people who don't need them, wasted time and effort re: the people who do. Exist mostly to help hippieish feel they are doing something to bring people together and bureaucracies to know they LOOK LIKE they care and are doing something about a problem.

[joesixpack]

Diversity/tolerance classes

Waste of time on the people who don't need them, wasted time and effort re: the people who do. Exist mostly to help hippieish feel they are doing something to bring people together and bureaucracies to know they LOOK LIKE they care and are doing something about a problem.

Actually parents have a lot of say in the school, dirty hippies or not, and I have no doubt that most of the administrators there do actually care about this.

It's very likely that most (if not all) of the parents from that school were horrified by this act and have every desire to do something about it (your assumptions about it's effectiveness notwithstanding). The best they can come up with is diversity training. Maybe there's a more effective response but so far no one's floating it. I can't fault them for making an effort.

[Ziggurat]

I'm reminded of this (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2009/8/17) comic:
http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/622461681_wmYfp-L.jpg
A bit of explanation here (http://www.penny-arcade.com/2009/08/17).

[Dessi]

Diversity classes? People point out the obvious lack of forethought which goes into vandalizing things to get a rise out of others.

No diversity classes? Moral outrage at school's lack of appropriate response to kids with no perspective on racial prejudice.

Seems like a win-win situation. For social trolls at least.

[joesixpack]

I'm reminded of this (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2009/8/17) comic:
http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/622461681_wmYfp-L.jpg
A bit of explanation here (http://www.penny-arcade.com/2009/08/17).

That's hilarious

[rjh01]

I think the answer is to catch the people in the act. It may not be the students. The school should know when it is happening. Have someone wait for them to do it, then maybe spray them with paint balls.

Or send all parents a note "Do you know where your children are? Something happened between these times. Were your children at home?"

[Mark R]

It isn't to teach them a lesson or to placate the parents. It's a full on CYA to make sure the school cannot be held liable for anti semitic acts.

Here's an example. My sons school sent me a note the other day. Turns out the senior class planned a field trip of their own with a bunch of kids sneaking out of town to Atlantic City or something.

Now this has been in the works for months. The only reason the school notified us is so that we could not hold them liable. They made sure they emphasized this in the letter.

They could care less.


I would have to disagree. Their is certainly an element of CYA, but I am willing to bet the administration does care. I have worked with over a dozen school administrators in my career, I have never meet one that would not be truly upset and concerned if such a incident occurred at their school/district.

Besides, do you actually blame the district for covering themselves in this litigious society? I do not.

Without knowing what students actually committed this crime, there is very little the district can reasonably do besides diversity classes. If the students who did it were caught, my guess is they would be expelled. However, I do not know enough of the details to say for sure.

[Travis]

Does anyone have any ideas on a more effective reaction?

I mean aside from just ignoring it in case it is just attention seeking behavior.

[Dancing David]

At the local high school some of the kids have decided it is "cool" to spray paint swastikas on the pavement. This has unsettled some of the kids and upset some of the parents. So this all goes up before the school board who now want to force the students into more "diversity/tolerance" classes.



Well institutional solutions are not always evidence based, especially in school districts. There is evidence that the Pledge of Allegiance improves education either.

:D

ETA: Actually having an organization within schools to build bridges does help a little, like GLSEN, The biggest impact there is visibility and forcing staff to consider their POVs.

[Dancing David]

Does anyone have any ideas on a more effective reaction?

I mean aside from just ignoring it in case it is just attention seeking behavior.

Putting up a web cam and suspending the students?

[Spindrift]

It isn't to teach them a lesson or to placate the parents. It's a full on CYA to make sure the school cannot be held liable for anti semitic acts.

Here's an example. My sons school sent me a note the other day. Turns out the senior class planned a field trip of their own with a bunch of kids sneaking out of town to Atlantic City or something.

Now this has been in the works for months. The only reason the school notified us is so that we could not hold them liable. They made sure they emphasized this in the letter.

They could care less.
Seems like a reasonable response from the administration because I will bet you that there were parents who thought the trip was school sponsored. If they didn't and then something happened the parents would look to blame the school. They'll probably still blame the school anyway, because "The school should have done something to prevent the kids from going."

[sadhatter]

Pretty much. Think about when you were a kid and what you and your classmates level of interest/knowledge was regarding politics and such. They don't tend to pick up on nuances but they can pick up on the buzzwords and symbols without understanding what they really mean.

"Swastika = Bad guys who are really disliked by just about everyone. Lets draw one and see what happens... Stuff happens... Hey look, it got some attention!"

Such is the mentality of a lot of teenagers.

You give them too much credit, as someone that always hung around **** disturbers, i can say it goes more like this.

SD1- I'm bored, want to **** something up?

SD2- Yeah, i got some firecrackers, spraypaint, and a hacksaw blade.

SD1- Spraypaint seems good, so cock or swastika?

SD2- Well we have been paint a lot of wangs lately, that's getting boring, swastika?

SD1 - Sounds good.

[sadhatter]

Does anyone have any ideas on a more effective reaction?

I mean aside from just ignoring it in case it is just attention seeking behavior.

If it is a commonly vandalized place, have some of the older art students paint a mural, and keep a security camera on the spot.

Even if the camera doesn't catch the kids, the grad 12 students are going to have a man hunt for whomever did it. Worked pretty well in my school, back in the day.

[sadhatter]

Seems like a reasonable response from the administration because I will bet you that there were parents who thought the trip was school sponsored. If they didn't and then something happened the parents would look to blame the school. They'll probably still blame the school anyway, because "The school should have done something to prevent the kids from going."

Something somewhat similar used to happen at my old school.

We put on a yearly drama production, that was actually quite high caliber, we arn't a giant city by any means ( 75,000 people or so.) , but every year ( honestly, until the lest 5 or so, from what i hear the quality has gone down considerably. ) it was a pretty big event in the city. Leading to much extra business for restaurants, etc.

Now it was also tradition for all the students , afterwards to go to a local bar and grill and get served alcohol, no questions asked, for this night.

Well, the inevitable happened, and some parent thinking this tradition was school sponsored , raised hell. The next year this tradition was overtly stated , in school to be frowned upon, and police swarmed the place an hour after everyone had arrived, the sheer amount of fines leveled made the business collapse.

[joesixpack]

... so cock or swastika?



Only one of these requires artistic ability. So naturally they'll default to the latter.

[DC]

Does anyone have any ideas on a more effective reaction?

I mean aside from just ignoring it in case it is just attention seeking behavior.

Show them a several hours long uncencored documentary about Auschwitz.

[sadhatter]

Only one of these requires artistic ability. So naturally they'll default to the latter.

You know, i always wonder how hard it is to draw a Jimmy. I mean really, i find myself looking at graffiti sometimes, and thinking " If that is what your Willhelm looks like, i would suggest seeing a doctor.".

I mean i am no artist, but i think if pressed i could draw a passable German Soldier, so it leaves me wondering why in the hell someone would choose to make artistically representing the Waggler a hobby, when they obviously have no ability to correctly represent a johnson using their chosen method.

[sadhatter]

Show them a several hours long uncencored documentary about Auschwitz.

"Hey, a bunch of kids who don't give a **** about anyone or anything. Here is a video of a bunch of gory stuff i find offensive. Does that make you change your mind?"

" No actually, but it does give us a few more ideas on jokes, and was cheaper than watching the new hostel filck. Thanks."

[joesixpack]

You know, i always wonder how hard it is to draw a Jimmy. I mean really, i find myself looking at graffiti sometimes, and thinking " If that is what your Willhelm looks like, i would suggest seeing a doctor.".

I mean i am no artist, but i think if pressed i could draw a passable German Soldier, so it leaves me wondering why in the hell someone would choose to make artistically representing the Waggler a hobby, when they obviously have no ability to correctly represent a johnson using their chosen method.

Your post made me laugh, but then I started thinking about it and now I have a theory.

People who like to draw johnsons on public walls are most likely repressed homosexuals and are both obsessed with Herman and deeply ashamed of that obsession. The obsessed part of their psyche compels them to draw the snaussage, but the homophobic part of their conscious mind prevents them from dwelling on the detail, because to do so would be "gay", and their shame overwhelms their compulsion. Hence the terrible drawing.

[sadhatter]

Your post made me laugh, but then I started thinking about it and now I have a theory.

People who like to draw johnsons on public walls are most likely repressed homosexuals and are both obsessed with Herman and deeply ashamed of that obsession. The obsessed part of their psyche compels them to draw the snaussage, but the homophobic part of their conscious mind prevents them from dwelling on the detail, because to do so would be "gay", and their shame overwhelms their compulsion. Hence the terrible drawing.

Yeah, that just gave me an awesome idea for a scene in a comedy series i am doing...

Two gents, obviously bored and drawing graffiti , one produces an almost Da vinci esque Love truncheon, with probably a montage showing the effort put into it, shows it with pride to his friend who gives a rather large raised eyebrow to it. Que second montage , pulling back to reveal a barely recognizable trouser weasel, and an approving look from his friend.

[Baloney]

Note to self: get certified as "diversity/tolerance" consultant.

[Marduk]

At the local high school some of the kids have decided it is "cool" to spray paint swastikas on the pavement. .

if theyre not surrounded by a white disc and a red background then theyre not Nazi symbols, the group who most frequently uses plain swastikas in their symbolism thesedays is in fact "Judaism"

way to go parents, lets get them joos
:rolleyes:
Show them a several hours long uncencored documentary about Auschwitz.
yup, just for the irony factor
:)

[Soapy Sam]

Does anyone have any ideas on a more effective reaction?

I mean aside from just ignoring it in case it is just attention seeking behavior.


Yes.
Somebody needs his arse kicked.

[fuelair]

If it is a commonly vandalized place, have some of the older art students paint a mural, and keep a security camera on the spot.

Even if the camera doesn't catch the kids, the grad 12 students are going to have a man hunt for whomever did it. Worked pretty well in my school, back in the day.

This I like!!:D

[fuelair]

You know, i always wonder how hard it is to draw a Jimmy. I mean really, i find myself looking at graffiti sometimes, and thinking " If that is what your Willhelm looks like, i would suggest seeing a doctor.".

I mean i am no artist, but i think if pressed i could draw a passable German Soldier, so it leaves me wondering why in the hell someone would choose to make artistically representing the Waggler a hobby, when they obviously have no ability to correctly represent a johnson using their chosen method.

Hey, they're just stupid little richard heads.........

[Ziggurat]

Note to self: get certified as "diversity/tolerance" consultant.

Ahem. (http://despair.com/consulting.html)
http://demotivators.despair.com/consultingdemotivator.jpg

[fuelair]

Ahem. (http://despair.com/consulting.html)
http://demotivators.despair.com/consultingdemotivator.jpg

So, so true.:(

[Weak Kitten]

Personally, I think they should be made to clean it up at least. Preferably without the use of power tools, on their hands and knees, for as long as it takes. But that's my solution to any destruction of someone's property.

[fuelair]

Personally, I think they should be made to clean it up at least. Preferably without the use of power tools, on their hands and knees, for as long as it takes. But that's my solution to any destruction of someone's property.

The Army preferred toothbrushes for that kind of training effort - good for detail cleaning!!:D

[mhaze]

At the local high school some of the kids have decided it is "cool" to spray paint swastikas on the pavement. This has unsettled some of the kids and upset some of the parents. So this all goes up before the school board who now want to force the students into more "diversity/tolerance" classes.

Now.......maybe I'm cynical but I'm thinking that if a kid actually holds abjectly racist viewpoints (which might not even be the case here as kids are known to do stupid things like painting swastikas just for kicks) I don't think making them watch a video on a rainbow of people standing on a grassy hill holding hands and singing will do any good.

Well, that was how the videos went back when I was in school. Today they probably have a bitching synth/pop soundtrack.

Is there any hard data on this stuff? I just can't see a kid raised in a house where it is commonly accepted knowledge that the Jews control everything deciding dad is wrong because of a class at school.

You (and likely THEM) are working from an incorrect premise. That's the assumption that it was a member of the school that did the painting. Without hard evidence in that direction, there is no reason to inflict any kind of crap on the kids.

[Stout]

You give them too much credit, as someone that always hung around **** disturbers, i can say it goes more like this.

SD1- I'm bored, want to **** something up?

SD2- Yeah, i got some firecrackers, spraypaint, and a hacksaw blade.

SD1- Spraypaint seems good, so cock or swastika?

SD2- Well we have been paint a lot of wangs lately, that's getting boring, swastika?

SD1 - Sounds good.

I side this

Now had they targeted a Jewish cemetery with swastika we may have some evidence of anti semitism. The swastika is the ultimate counter culture symbol, guaranteed to piss off just about everybody.

Diversity and tolerance aren't things that can't be taught, they're things that one has to figure out for oneself. It's sort of like sending guys who pick up prostitutes to "john school" sure, the smart ones claim to have learned the errors of their ways however, at heart, they don't really give a rip and just go through the motions of *repenting*

[fuelair]

The reason for my comments about those programs for prevention. Just California feel-good stuff.

[epepke]

Does anyone have any ideas on a more effective reaction?

Um, teaching them not to destroy or deface public property?

NO THAT IS INCONCEIVABLE!

[bigred]

Now.......maybe I'm cynical but I'm thinking that if a kid actually holds abjectly racist viewpoints (which might not even be the case here as kids are known to do stupid things like painting swastikas just for kicks) I don't think making them watch a video on a rainbow of people standing on a grassy hill
gasp

That's crazy talk. Next thing you'll be telling me that "affirmative action" is a quota system enforcing reverse discrimination! :eek::boxedin::covereyes:crowded:

[Stout]

Speaking of diversity and tolerance, I ran across this yesterday.

Gendertrender (http://http://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2011/09/06/who-are-the-males-who-sneak-into-michigan-womens-music-festival/)

To save you clicking on the link and wasting your valuable time, I summarize. It's a group of lesbians openly mocking and deriding transsexuals who simply want to live as women.

Here we have an oppressed group who are constantly on about diversity and tolerance openly discriminating against "the other" simply because "the other" was born with the wrong chromosomes.

So...what's the message here ? I'm confused Discrimination and intolerance are good ? So if I discriminate against lesbians ( real lesbians, not internet lesbians ) that's bad but if I chop off big jim ant the twins and want to live as a woman, then the people who, as of now, I'm not "supposed" to discriminate against ( homophobia ) can discriminate against me ?

So those who we're not supposed to discriminate against are allowed to discriminate against those who we're also not supposed to discriminate against. Can we discriminate against group A for discriminating against group B without being accused of discriminating against group A because of who they are when we're merely discriminating against them for what they do?

Damn..politics is hard sometimes I wish I was a redneck.

[Mycroft]

Gendertrender

To save you clicking on the link and wasting your valuable time, I summarize. It's a group of lesbians openly mocking and deriding transsexuals who simply want to live as women.

Wow. Whoever runs that blog really hates transgender women.


Here we have an oppressed group who are constantly on about diversity and tolerance openly discriminating against "the other" simply because "the other" was born with the wrong chromosomes.

I think it's important to remember that the "oppressed group" is not all lesbians, but just the small sub-set of lesbians that are represented by that blog. Any group will be composed of people with a variety of opinions, and it's important to remember that any one particular opinion may not be representative of the whole.

[Stout]

Wow. Whoever runs that blog really hates transgender women.


Bizarre isn't it the level of hate steaming from that thing almost melted my monitor. For a real trip down the feminazi rabbit hole, look up the entry on the Kiwi tampon commercial and read the comments under it.

I think it's important to remember that the "oppressed group" is not all lesbians, but just the small sub-set of lesbians that are represented by that blog. Any group will be composed of people with a variety of opinions, and it's important to remember that any one particular opinion may not be representative of the whole.

I agree, but just how small that sunset is, is up for estimates. I liked specifically to the music festival entry to highlight that the idea of trans inclusion has been on the table wrt this event for years and, so far, they don't appear to be making any progress when it comes to trans inclusion.

Last year, in Vancouver BC a women's only pharmacy opened, yep, no trans allowed, women born women only. As far as I could tell it wasn't a lesbian, but feminist driven format that was eventually forced to allow trans. Just where the lesbian and feminist circles intersect and overlap seems to be one of those issues that is always under discussion but my point here is yet another group, feminists, were openly discriminatory towards a group that's about as marginal as you can get.

Well as marginal as you can get while still remaining within the boundaries of the law.

Just thinking out loud, I haven't done any research on the topic but I wonder how fetish crossdressers go over in the trans community. Might this be another level of discrimination ? As far as I know, crossdressing is legal however I did watch someone get busted on COPS for impersonating a woman once but that was years ago, maybe it was a state law thing.

[bigred]

Speaking of diversity and tolerance, I ran across this yesterday.

Gendertrender (http://http://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2011/09/06/who-are-the-males-who-sneak-into-michigan-womens-music-festival/)

To save you clicking on the link and wasting your valuable time, I summarize. It's a group of lesbians openly mocking and deriding transsexuals who simply want to live as women.

Here we have an oppressed group who are constantly on about diversity and tolerance openly discriminating against "the other" simply because "the other" was born with the wrong chromosomes.

So...what's the message here ?
Isn't it obvious? The allegedly "oppressed" groups rarely if ever really give a flip about equality or "diversity" blah de etc blah. They only want extra/better, even preferential, treatment for "their" group. And as you see here, it's not exactly unheard of for them to be just as bigoted about other groups as any redneck or homophobe (etc) that ever came down the pike. But it's OK because they're a member of an "oppressed" group. :rolleyes: :boggled: I see this often with the whole silly race thing. IMO the avg black is far more racist than the avg white, and I don't simply mean against whites either. I'll never forget a discussion I was having with a black guy (who until then had seemed quite intelligent) some years back who was railing about the horrors of evil whitey and ended up in the same conversation mocking Asians, how they're bad drivers/etc, even made fun of their accent. Brilliant. (yes anecdotal I know, but have seen such attitudes many times and not just about race)

All hail the Era of Double-Standards! :bow: The worst part is that there are more than enough hypersensitive, guilt-ridden morons out there willing to genuflect to all this idiocy without question. I'm seriously thinking of starting a movement to stop the oppression of us left-handers. Hey being an evil white hetero male, I have to find some way to get my piece of the goodies. The oppression of all these doorknobs, writing tablets, desks etc etc built for the righties has gone on too long! And why can't we drive on the left side of the road like in the UK? Blatant discrimation I say. Diversity! Tolerance! blah! I want reparations!

[Stout]

That's my thinking exactly, that the whole diversity/tolerance is one big red herring in order to promote self interest. There's also the thundering from the pulpit schick that these guilt ridden members of the dominant group love to engage in just to prove to themselves and each other that they're indeed progressive and "better" than the rest of the dominant society.

If we take the way these groups ( the far left ) define terms like racism, where only members of the dominant group can engage in "racism" all other forms of racial discrimination are simply bigotry or ethnocentrism and therefore not as bad as the demonized racism.

Under this form of thinking, which nobody really knows about unless they've made study of the political correctors a black person can't be labeled a racist. Bonus points if you can tie a black person's cultural bigotry into being caused by the dominant society.

The same goes for sexism, A woman cannot be labelled sexist under the laws of political correctness so lesbians discriminating against trans, for instance is defended by justifying the need for women born women only spaces as a refuge from the male dominated society. Diversity and tolerance be damned.

In my experience, the left, the PC, just drop these types of issues like hot potatoes and any attempt to resurface these is met by accusations of trolling. I pulled that gendertrender link off a lefty board, it was posted my a trans activist and in the three days since the issue was raised, it's sunk way past the bottom of the page.

[Dessi]

Speaking of diversity and tolerance, I ran across this yesterday.

Gendertrender (http://http://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2011/09/06/who-are-the-males-who-sneak-into-michigan-womens-music-festival/)

To save you clicking on the link and wasting your valuable time, I summarize. It's a group of lesbians openly mocking and deriding transsexuals who simply want to live as women.

Here we have an oppressed group who are constantly on about diversity and tolerance openly discriminating against "the other" simply because "the other" was born with the wrong chromosomes.
**** the Michigan Women's Music Festival. I've listened to their anti-trans rants, they believe transwomen carry around "male energy" -- they are, however, perfectly happy to invite drag kings and transmen to their concerts. Policies like that reinforce essentialist views of sex and gender, which totally undermines the message feminists have been pushing for years that essentialism is false, totally undermines an important part of feminist philosophy that "one is not born a woman, but becomes a woman".

Thankfully, Autostraddle (http://autostraddle.com)'s gay girl community is very welcoming to transwomen, as are most LGBT communities I've belonged to over the years.

Isn't it obvious? The allegedly "oppressed" groups rarely if ever really give a flip about equality or "diversity" blah de etc blah. They only want extra/better, even preferential, treatment for "their" group.
MWMF is deplorable but your comment is a totally unnecessary mischaracterization of minority groups. MWMF do not speak for all lesbians or even all feminists, their view is shrinking in numbers. Third-wave feminists reject the gender binary, aren't necessarily as opposed to sex or pornography, view gender-conforming femininity with less disdain, and are generally inclusive to transfeminists.

For a wonderful perspective on the topic, listen to Tobi Hill-Meyer's narrative on being a butch, feminist, transwoman:
cQu_2hOannU

[crimresearch]

The whole idea of 'community' can be a stepping stone to power, which as we should all know, can be quite addictive.. even in its pettiest forms.

And defining the community by excluding those with less power, is a pattern that seems to repeat over and over.

[Ziggurat]

**** the Michigan Women's Music Festival.

I'd... really rather not. :scared:

[Stout]

**** the Michigan Women's Music Festival. I've listened to their anti-trans rants, they believe transwomen carry around "male energy" -- they are, however, perfectly happy to invite drag kings and transmen to their concerts. Policies like that reinforce essentialist views of sex and gender, which totally undermines the message feminists have been pushing for years that essentialism is false, totally undermines an important part of feminist philosophy that "one is not born a woman, but becomes a woman".



Yes their views do run contrary to everything I've read on the issue from the trans perspective however I can't say I've had much exposure to the feminist take on diversity and tolerance wrt trans issues however the wbw crowd seems to be the most boisterous whenever this issue arises

[bigred]

The "trans perspective??" :boggled: :boggled:

These truly are the crazy years. Run away, it is the rabbit.

[Lamuella]

The "trans perspective??" :boggled: :boggled:

These truly are the crazy years. Run away, it is the rabbit.

yes, run all the way back to the 1930s or the 1830s or whenever it is that your weird view of how society should work was closest to happening.

[bigred]

:rolleyes:

Two wrongs make a right, is that your whiny logic?

God forbid there be a common sense middle ground. I guess that's not "trans" enough.

[Lamuella]

:rolleyes:

Two wrongs make a right, is that your whiny logic?

God forbid there be a common sense middle ground. I guess that's not "trans" enough.

I sincerely have no idea what you are talking about

[bigred]

I'm not surprised.