An analog to the knee-jerk anti-war protesters

[rikzilla]

Like monkeys in a cage, the anti-war movement has programed their followers to attack when they hear the word "war". Eat your heart out Pavlov!


Start with a cage containing five monkeys. Inside the cage, hang a
banana on a string and place a set of stairs under it. Before long, a
monkey will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the banana. As
soon as he touches the stairs, spray all of the other monkeys with
cold water.

After a while, another monkey makes an attempt with the same result -
all the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water. Pretty soon, when
another monkey tries to climb the stairs, the other monkeys will try
to prevent it.

Now, put away the cold water. Remove one monkey from the cage and
replace it with a new one. The new monkey sees the banana and wants to
climb the stairs. To his surprise and horror, all of the other monkeys
attack him.

After another attempt and attack, he knows that if he tries to climb
the stairs, he will be assaulted.

Next, remove another of the original five monkeys and replace it with
a new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The
previous newcomer takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm!
Likewise, replace a third original monkey with a new one, then a
fourth, then the fifth.

Every time the newest monkey takes to the stairs, he is attacked. Most
of the monkeys that are beating him have no idea why they were not
permitted to climb the stairs or why they are participating in the
beating of the newest monkey.

After replacing all the original monkeys, none of the remaining
monkeys have ever been sprayed with cold water. Nevertheless, no
monkey ever again approaches the stairs to try for the banana.

Why not?

Because as far as they know that's the way it's always been done
around here. And that, my friends, is just how anti-war protesters think! :rolleyes: :D :D

You, my friend, are getting more and more bizzare. :D

I'll spare you my corollary involving gung-ho rightist berserkers, flies and horse manure.

[Skeptical Greg]

Damn funny story, whether it is a good analogy or not...:D

[Tmy]

http://www.bartcop.com/goering-quote.jpg

Beautiful. Thank you for making my day.

[DanishDynamite]

sundog:Beautiful. Thank you for making my day. Ditto.

[Barkhorn1x]

...and then there is Neville Chamberlain, who upon his return from Munich in September of 1938 - after he signed an agreement w/ Hitler that was, "symbolic of the desire of our two peoples never to go to war with one another again."
- proudly proclaimed;


"My good friends, for the second time in our history, a British Prime Minister has returned from Germany bringing peace with honour. I believe it is peace for our time...
Go home and get a nice quiet sleep."


Of course 1 year later World War II in Europe began when the dictator of Gerrmany broke his pledge and the good people of Europe didn't get a nice quiet sleep for 5 long years - if they lived that long!

Night now,
Barkhorn.


;)

Originally posted by Barkhorn1x
...and then there is Neville Chamberlain, who upon his return from Munich in September of 1938 - after he signed an agreement w/ Hitler that was, "symbolic of the desire of our two peoples never to go to war with one another again."
- proudly proclaimed;

[b]

Of course 1 year later World War II in Europe began when the dictator of Gerrmany broke his pledge and the good people of Europe didn't get a nice quiet sleep for 5 long years - if they lived that long!

Night now,
Barkhorn.


;)


....Am I being slow here? What on Earth does that have to do with anything?

[DanishDynamite]

sundog:....Am I being slow here? What on Earth does that have to do with anything? Come now, sundog. It obviously proves that being against any war is the same as appeasement and is therefore always wrong.

Try to keep up. ;)

Originally posted by DanishDynamite
sundog: Come now, sundog. It obviously proves that being against any war is the same as appeasement and is therefore always wrong.

Try to keep up. ;)

Ah, ah, OK, sorry, sorry.

[DanishDynamite]

sundog:Ah, ah, OK, sorry, sorry. ;)

[Crossbow]

Amen Tmy!

You are H*lla Cool!

:D

[Agammamon]

Funny, I thought it was a perfect description of the process by which traditions are formed.

What's the definition of a tradition?
Something we've need doing for so long we forgot why we started doing it in the first place.

[Barkhorn1x]

Originally posted by sundog



....Am I being slow here?

Yes!!! And you too DanishTNT ;)


What on Earth does that have to do with anything?

Oh come on - use your incredibly scary critical thinking skills and figure it out.

Barkhorn.

Originally posted by Barkhorn1x


Yes!!! And you too DanishTNT ;)

[B]

Oh come on - use your incredibly scary critical thinking skills and figure it out.

Barkhorn.

Thanks, I'm very glad you're frightened of them, but they fail me this time. Perhaps you'd explain the connection with the topic?

[Barkhorn1x]

...OK – ignoring the actual OP of this thread – Tmy posts what must be a favorite quotation of the Left (coming as it does from the Right) as a way to discredit the Bush administration’s position on Iraq.

Understanding the combination non-sequitur / extremist nature of the response, I decided to respond w/ something as extreme that represented the exact opposite POV. Danish TNT picked up on only one side of the meaning;

“Come now, Sundog. It obviously proves that being against any war is the same as appeasement and is therefore always wrong.”

But (characteristically) he missed the rest of it - that a majority in the US being in favor of using force in Iraq does not necessarily equate to them being “brought to the bidding of the leaders” and is therefore wrong in this case.

Got it now??

Barkhorn.

Originally posted by Barkhorn1x

Got it now??

Barkhorn.

The original pic was NOT a non-sequitur, as it calls Rik out on his tactic of baiting pacifists: "Denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger". That's just what Rik does.

You responded to the REST of the quote, I get it now, though it still seems rather a non-sequitur to me.

Thanks for your assistance. :)

[Martin]

Rik - it may interest you to know that I have seen this story on at least two previous occasions. On those occasions, it was used by woo-woos (the TVTalkshows mob, I think) indulging in their favourite pastime of poisoning the well against sceptics. Had you seen that, I am sure you would (rightly) have called them on it.

This is beneath you.

[rikzilla]

Originally posted by sundog


The original pic was NOT a non-sequitur, as it calls Rik out on his tactic of baiting pacifists: "Denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger". That's just what Rik does.

You responded to the REST of the quote, I get it now, though it still seems rather a non-sequitur to me.

Thanks for your assistance. :)

Sundog,

If you're such a good pacifist then why did you offer to kick my ass several threads ago? :p

The point of my post was that most anti war activists are not skeptics. Mostly they are frustrated ex-hippies that are pissed off because they missed the sixties. Now suddenly they've got a war to protest!!! As well as a bunch of old subversive communist wannabes (since there were never any real communists---thanks Vic)...who remember the 60's and are willing to teach the newbies all they need to know in order to be good protesters.

(Monkeys...steps...and banana. This is what we do, and if it feels good do it,....but don't ask why or who. Critical thinking is only to be used against the great Satan...not the great Movement!)

So party on Wayne, Garth, and Sundog! Get yourself a van, pick up some chicks...grab some good dope and go to a rally...but remember to pay no attention to the communists behind the curtain, working the controls of Jesse Jackson and ANSWER. That might spoil your buzz.

-z

[rikzilla]

Originally posted by Martinm
Rik - it may interest you to know that I have seen this story on at least two previous occasions. On those occasions, it was used by woo-woos (the TVTalkshows mob, I think) indulging in their favourite pastime of poisoning the well against sceptics. Had you seen that, I am sure you would (rightly) have called them on it.

This is beneath you.

Martin,

It was a joke I got on my e-mail. The context was corporate culture as in the "That's just how we do it here" mentality of corporate workers. It seemed to me that it fits even better as an analog to the anti-war sheeple.

I posted it as a joke....like Sundog said....something to needle the lefties with. Nothing more. So what part of this joke is "beneath me"?? Believe me...I've heard..and told...worse. ;)

-z

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by sundog



....Am I being slow here? What on Earth does that have to do with anything?

Just trying to ruin your day..:D

Originally posted by rikzilla


Sundog,

If you're such a good pacifist then why did you offer to kick my ass several threads ago? :p



Oh Rik. Really.

I think I said something to the effect that, if you were willing to walk up to a 250-lb. 6'6" Texan in top shape and call him a Communist to his face, one had to admire your bravery.

I don't think there's much doubt of that, whether we mean me or some other Texan. :D

Please don't stretch the truth so far out of shape on an issue like that.



The point of my post ...
-z

Make up your mind. Did your post have a point, or was it just a needle? And exactly what is the relation between the learned behavior exhibited in your monkey example and some new sort of tirade against your picture of liberals? How did the monkey story relate to your explanation of the post at all? Where's your evidence that your hypothetical hippies exhibit this behavior more than anyone else?

It's a simple slam and is beneath you, as is your insistence on generalizing anyone you disagree with into a nice, convenient, easy-to-hate group. The fact that reality isn't that simple never gets through to you.

What is really insulting is your assertion that people you don't agree with can't possibly be thinking. They must be acting like sheep, following blindly.

Someone else pointed out that this is a simple ad-hominem and could be directed at anyone. If I thought it were true, which I do not, I would turn the story around and say Republicans all act that way. It would still be an ad-hom.

Why bother debating people you clearly simply disrespect? If we're all sheep, what good is it going to do?

[ZeeGerman]

Originally posted by sundog


Why bother debating people you clearly simply disrespect? If we're all sheep, what good is it going to do?

Well, it's a knee-jerk reaction of course. Look at his avatar and ask yourself what cage of apes he escaped from:D

Schtonk

Zee