1,150,000 Voices

[Electron #1]

One of the largest if not THE largest march in Washington DC 's history.


http://www.marchforwomen.org/gallery/march/march?full=1

[RandFan]

Originally posted by Electron #1
One of the largest if not THE largest march in Washington DC 's history.


http://www.marchforwomen.org/gallery/march/march?full=1 500,000 to 800,000 but who's counting? :D

Still it was a significant amount and a record for this kind of meeting. I just note that the organizers always double the amount.

Pro-choice rally on Mall (http://washingtontimes.com/metro/20040425-112025-9831r.htm)

The U.S. Park Police no longer provides crowd estimates at events on the Mall. But a veteran Park Police officer told The Washington Times that the crowd appeared to number less than 500,000.

D.C. police unofficially estimated that between 500,000 and 800,000 took part, which would make the March for Women's Lives the largest demonstration ever held on the Mall, topping the estimated 500,000 who protested for abortion rights in 1992.

Organizers of yesterday's march estimated that 1.15 million persons attended.

About 600,000 people turned out for the largest recorded demonstration on the Mall — the Vietnam War Moratorium Rally — on Saturday, Nov. 15, 1969.

The largest gatherings on the Mall were the 1976 Bicentennial Celebration, when up to 1 million watched the fireworks display and the 1991 Desert Storm Homecoming, when about 800,000 turned out.

[Electron #1]

Who is counting ? ...indeed.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A41997-2004Apr25.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/26/politics/26RALL.html?ex=1084593600&en=0fccebf9db847528&ei=5070

http://www.marchforwomen.org/gallery/march/one
look at the pictures in the times article.. the one at the bottom left of the article. just like the milllion man on the mall ..it looks like a million people march :) 500,000?! ???? What were those police smoking?

[Electron #1]

Not the first time LOW estimates were reported in National publications.


http://www.fair.org/activism/npr-nyt-update.html



Also amazing how Televised Golf , Beast Master Part IV , and even more pharmacuetical "news"formercials can get so much air time while a million plus Americans and other nationalities are so loudly speaking out against injustice! http://www.fair.org/activism/womens-march-networks.html
The t.v. eye blacked out again under the weight of its financial intrests.

[iain]

I'm sure I remember a recent demo in London (countryside protestors, maybe) where they set up an arch across the road - like the finishing post at a marathon, and counted everyone who passed through to get a reasonably accurate figure.

In the UK as well the police tend to estimate about half the number the organisers do. Human nature, I guess.

[RandFan]

Originally posted by Electron #1
Who is counting ? ...indeed.

look at the pictures in the times article.. the one at the bottom left of the article. just like the milllion man on the mall ..it looks like a million people march :) 500,000?! ???? What were those police smoking? What do you think your links prove? There were not a million men on the mall.

The photo shows the mall full. Why does that equal 1.15 million?

[Electron #1]

fan


your basing your reasoning on the evaluation of a hand full of police officers reports (acknowledged experienced police) whos own bias one way or the other may effect their judgement,,,your own link quote starts with the misnomer that they dont do crowd estimates anymore ,,,,then follows with crowd estimates ,,,,,obvious opinions,,,,While the march organizers have all the pledges of the people who would come to attend....AS well, as that amazing aerial picture(and many more ground photos) which would suggest by the sides of the mall that it was taken as the mall was filling beyond capacity ,,,Low estimates seem to be a media staple now adays with protests threating public opinion ..I think saying the protest was HALF what its size obviously is shown to be by photographs that might not even been taken at the heigth of its turn out is blantantly condescending to the efforts of the protesters but not suprizing considering a election year and the dangling carrot promises of further FCC deals.

[Millionframe]

How about we just average all of the claims?

[RandFan]

Originally posted by Electron #1
fan


your basing your reasoning on the evaluation of a hand full of police officers reports (acknowledged experienced police) whos own bias one way or the other may effect their judgement,,,your own link quote starts with the misnomer that they dont do crowd estimates anymore ,,,,then follows with crowd estimates ,,,,,obvious opinions,,,,While the march organizers have all the pledges of the people who would come to attend....AS well, as that amazing aerial picture(and many more ground photos) which would suggest by the sides of the mall that it was taken as the mall was filling beyond capacity ,,,Low estimates seem to be a media staple now adays with protests threating public opinion ..I think saying the protest was HALF what its size obviously is shown to be by photographs that might not even been taken at the heigth of its turn out is blantantly condescending to the efforts of the protesters but not suprizing considering a election year and the dangling carrot promises of further FCC deals. Forgive me, whatever, I see a motivation on the parts of the organizers. I don't get the motivation you claim for the police but hey, let's say it was 2 million, 'k? And yeh, looking at the photo it looks like a gazillion. Anyone could tell by looking at that photo exactly how many people were there. 2 million - 5 million, whatever. Sorry I questioned this all important number.

And btw, the controversy has been going on for years. One of the reasons the park police got out of the business of forecast is they tired of the complaints. So, looking at a photo is scientific, let's go for 6 million.

RandFan

[Electron #1]

fan


hmmm Your tenacious sarcasm is amusing but it seems stange that you don't have a problem with believing that when the mall was full from the 1975 Bi centinneal there were a million people there(something you were carefull to highlight from the article you quoted).....If you honestly take the word of oops ONE person claiming less than 500,000 people (OR a publication that would print that !) then the current administration should be suiting you just fine,,,by the way ive got some WMD's and a bridge you might be intrested in.

[RandFan]

Originally posted by Electron #1
hmmm Your tenacious sarcasm is amusing but it seems stange that you don't have a problem with believing that when the mall was full from the 1975 Bi centinneal there were a million people there(something you were carefull to highlight from the article you quoted).....If you honestly take the word of oops ONE person claiming less than 500,000 people (OR a publication that would print that !) then the current administration should be suiting you just fine,,,by the way ive got some WMD's and a bridge you might be intrested in. I think you are a little caught up in conspiracy theory. One more time. The controversy between the park police and organizers goes back to Clinton's time. So get off of the conspiracy theory ok.

Next, I'm reasonably certain the Mall doesn't hold 1,000,000 plus. In order to get that many people in they must go to over flow areas. This is just from my recolections of past controversies.

And the article quoted at least two people. AND I SAID IT WAS A RECORD!!!!!

I don't care how many people were there, you do. I support a womans right to choose and think the administrations position is wrong. So climb down from the soap box.

[Electron #1]

Thats great that your pro choice you should be glad for the million plus people that were out marching in Washington then. As far as" conspiracy theories"....hmmm i wonder why major media outlets wouldnt want to do stories that would suggest that FCC monopoly ownership regulations could influence media coverage?....hmmmmm?,,,its a tough one.... Really its good to know your pro choice.... if your a atheist as well ..i could believe that at least one "conservative" isnt dragging there fingernails in the dirt away from evolving.

[RandFan]

Originally posted by Electron #1
Thats great that your pro choice you should be glad for the million plus people that were out marching in Washington then. As far as" conspiracy theories"....hmmm i wonder why major media outlets wouldnt want to do stories that would suggest that FCC monopoly ownership regulations could influence media coverage?....hmmmmm?,,,its a tough one.... Really its good to know your pro choice.... if your a atheist as well ..i could believe that at least one "conservative" isn't dragging there fingernails in the dirt away from evolving. We'll we have done the media conspiracy theories to death. If you would like we could do them again.

I'm libertarian...moderate republican...fiscal conservative / social liberal...whatever. I'm agnostic. At best there is a god that doesn't give a damn. Likely that we are here by ourselves. Religion has no place in schools and evolution is as arguable as whether or not the world is round.

No, I don't particularly care that lots of people marched. Abortion is a divisive issue that Liberals have honed to a fine edge. It is a "for or us or against" proposition. If I thought that there were a real threat to it I would march myself.

Your views about "conservatives" are reminiscent of racist stereotypes of minorities. It's easy to hate people because they think different than you do. It takes effort to understand another person's point of view. When you lump everyone in one group you can dismiss them without thinking. Oh, and I know that you don't "hate" anyone. And I know of racists who have black friends. They don't hate anyone either. It's good to know your position at least.

[Electron #1]

LoL.... A libertarian(leaning republican) conservative throwing bigotry ,race discrimination ,and anti hate in general as some kinda defensive UNO card. Now ive seen everything .I had NO idea that thinking fascism, censorship, and corporate monopolization is wrong would make me a rascist!?? Please drape me in the american flag so i can be purified !

Being pro choice why would you want to detract from anything positive being done in its defense. ( ding! beat you to the buzzer....your full of bushite!)

[Rob Lister]

Originally posted by Electron #1
Being pro choice why would you want to detract from anything positive being done in its defense. ( ding! beat you to the buzzer....your full of bus**te!)

Promoting inaccuracies is perhaps the greatest detraction of any positive. Just My Opinion...please continue your baiting.

[ceo_esq]

Originally posted by Electron #1
Who is counting ? ...indeed.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A41997-2004Apr25.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/26/politics/26RALL.html?ex=1084593600&en=0fccebf9db847528&ei=5070

http://www.marchforwomen.org/gallery/march/one
look at the pictures in the times article.. the one at the bottom left of the article. just like the milllion man on the mall ..it looks like a million people march :) 500,000?! ???? What were those police smoking? Many years ago I worked for the National Park Service in Washington, a job which included liaising with the U.S. Park Police in regard to organized events on NPS territory like the National Mall.

Perhaps as a result, I tend to view police crowd estimates as more reliable than organizer estimates. On the government side, we had access to so many more ways of judging crowd size. We used the aerial grid method, we had video and manual flow counting, we had analyses of public transportation usage patterns, and many other things. Also, with respect to the Mall specifically, we also had the advantage of having observed so many different marches/rallies/events in the exact same space, making relative judgments possible by reference to scores of criteria.

[Electron #1]

OH ! So now the organizers of the march WHO WERE THERE and announced that there were 1,150,000 people were there are detracting from there own cause????

I can see the headlines!

Math Debating Train spotters the world over OUTRAGED that single police officer was not considered impecable witness!
.

[crimresearch]

On the topic of crowd estimates, I have had occasion to compare on the ground crowd counting, along with staging area counting, to the numbers provided by the organizers and the police in a march on a state capitol...
I have to say that the organizers of the particular event I observed were beyond optimistic. Their claim seemed to be over by a huge amount, while the government estimates seemed to be low by about 10 percent.
To my knowledge, neither group actually counted the people, or the cars, at the closed staging area where the march commenced, which gave me a figure of about 50,000, vs the 100,000 to 150,000 claimed by the organizers and the 45,000 counted by the police.

Don't know how that disparity translates to a much larger crowd,

Paul

[Electron #1]

Esq,


I havent seen any mention of laser grid photo mapping , that would be of great help . But since Washington police have gone out of their way to say they didnt know the OFFICIAL estimate .I m left to believe the only count they offered was one of opinion only . With the enormous ammount more than the origianl 750,000 that the protest organizers had
planned and got license for im not suprised there were negative opinions.

[RandFan]

Originally posted by Electron #1
LoL.... A libertarian(leaning republican) conservative throwing bigotry ,race discrimination ,and anti hate in general as some kinda defensive UNO card. Now ive seen everything .I had NO idea that thinking fascism, censorship, and corporate monopolization is wrong would make me a rascist!??Nice straw man. Sorry no. I never said you were a racist. In fact I didn't say any of those things. You just hate conservatives. Which makes you simply a garden variety biggot.

Being pro choice why would you want to detract from anything positive being done in its defense. ( ding! beat you to the buzzer....your full of bus**te!) Can you read? I don't like it unecassarily being used as a wedge issue.

[rikzilla]

Originally posted by Electron #1
Who is counting ? ...indeed.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A41997-2004Apr25.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/26/politics/26RALL.html?ex=1084593600&en=0fccebf9db847528&ei=5070

http://www.marchforwomen.org/gallery/march/one
look at the pictures in the times article.. the one at the bottom left of the article. just like the milllion man on the mall ..it looks like a million people march :) 500,000?! ???? What were those police smoking?

I work in DC and have seen countless marches. No matter what the cause is pro-choice, right to life, gun control, gay rights, etc... they all have one thing in common: A need and desire to have a big number of people to show that the march was a success.

This means that no matter the cause, you'll never get a straight answer out of the organizers. As a skeptic, one should always seek out the least biased source of info. Asking Louis Farukkan how many men were actually at the "million man march" is like asking a creationist if there is a God.

BTW, the million man march wasn't.
Dr. Farouk EL-Baz, director of the Center for Remote Sensing at Boston University, today announced the results of the Center's final analysis of the crowd size present during the "Million Man March" held Monday, October 16, in Washington, DC - 837,000, w ith a margin of error of plus or minus 20 percent.

This was the Center's second effort to analyze National Park Service photos taken during the march. The Park Service's orginal estimate of 400,000 marchers, which was based on an analysis of images taken from a videotape, brought criticism from the event 's organizers, the Nation of Islam, which felt the crowd reached a number between 1.5 million to 2 million.
(snip)
After working overnight, the team on Thursday morning, October 19, produced a n estimate of 870,000 people in attendance at aboiut 3:30 p.m., with a margin of error of about 25 percent, which meant the actual size of the crowd at that time could have been as low as 650,000 or as high as 1.1 million.

The Link (http://www.bu.edu/remotesensing/Research/MMM/MMMnew.html)

Arguing over a crowd count in DC is like counting how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. :rolleyes:

-z

[Tmy]

Is it physically possible for 1 million people to even fit in the Mall??


( I can see the Onion Article now "People Against Statistics Organization estimate 1 gazillion-billion protesters attended their DC Rally." )

[roger]

Originally posted by rikzilla
I work in DC and have seen countless marches. No matter what the cause is pro-choice, right to life, gun control, gay rights, etc... they all have one thing in common: A need and desire to have a big number of people to show that the march was a success.Absolutely. I've been to a lot of them too. Every time (please note this point Electron), whether for a conservative or liberal cause, the organizer's estimate vastly exceeded the Park Police estimates.

As far as the media goes, I can never keep track of whether it is controlled by the FCC and big business interests, or if it is overrun with liberals out to downplay everything conservative and eviserate big business and govenment. Seems like both claims are made :con2:

[Electron #1]

Apparently what the problem for a detractor is that all the protesters didnt jog on to the Mall wearing #s on their backs. Petitions signed at the march could be considered for judging crowd size but NO that would be impartial ....sigh....

honestly is it that hard to compare pictures to previous protests?


That all being said....Yay!!javascript:smilie(':D') This was a cool event and it puts a big ol ear to ear grin on my face seeing all those people out excercising our freedoms and joining together to triumph for womens rights across the globe!

[RandFan]

Originally posted by Electron #1
Apparently what the problem for a detractor is that all the protesters didnt jog on to the Mall wearing #s on their backs. Petitions signed at the march could be considered for judging crowd size but NO that would be impartial ....sigh....

honestly is it that hard to compare pictures to previous protests? Honestly, is it that hard to read what others have written?


That all being said....Yay!!javascript:smilie(':D') This was a cool event and it puts a big ol ear to ear grin on my face seeing all those people out excercising our freedoms and joining together to triumph for womens rights across the globe! That's nice.

[peptoabysmal]

I've never understood the connection between abortion and women's rights. If it were truly a right, wouldn't it also apply to men? Wouldn't a man be able to legally require a woman he had gotten pregnant to have an abortion?

sorry off topic a bit... just had to ask it.

[RandFan]

Originally posted by peptoabysmal
I've never understood the connection between abortion and women's rights. If it were truly a right, wouldn't it also apply to men? Wouldn't a man be able to legally require a woman he had gotten pregnant to have an abortion?

sorry off topic a bit... just had to ask it. Hey pepto,

I don't think so. The man doesn't have to suffer the very real consequences of having a child. And while it is less of a stigma that it was just a couple of decades ago it still has severe ramifications for the mother.

However it is interesting that a man has no choices but still must bear the responsibility of the decision of the mother if she should decide to keep the child. For that reason alone men should learn to understand their responsibility for intercourse.