Iraqi soldiers wearing U.S. uniforms

[kourama]

I am pretty used to the media talking to me like I'm a complete idiot. I still don't like it, but I realize that they're trying to communicate with the lowest common denominator.

Fine.

The other day I heard a piece of propaganda that was so blatant, I can't imagine anyone with a heartbeat could believe this tripe. Some public relations branch of the government warned that Saddam Hussein has been buying U.S. army uniforms in an effort to gain sympathy from the world community by having his most loyal troops dress up like U.S. soldiers and commit attrocities against his own people.

So, if any reports go out of a U.S. soldier commiting attrocities it's probably an Iraqi in disguise?

PUH-LEEZE!

I was so sickened by this pathetic, transparent grabage I couldn't see straight.

Anybody else hear about this?

[Akots]

Well, if i were going to commit atrocities, I'd defenitely want to be someone else.

I suspect the propaganda about as much as I'd suspect Saddam of actually doing it in the first place... he might actualy start to keep his atrocities as low profile as possible, with everybody watching.

[Plutarck]

Well, he really is the type that would, say, slaughter civilians and then go and place the bodies in various areas to make it look like the ole US'of'A had plinked innocents.

However, it is important to note that just because he COULD and WOULD, doesn't mean he actually will or has.

So, it wouldn't surprise me at all that he would dress some of his soldiers up like american soldiers and have them trot off to kill orphans and burn down mosques...but that doesn't mean he actually will.

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by kourama
I am pretty used to the media talking to me like I'm a complete idiot. I still don't like it, but I realize that they're trying to communicate with the lowest common denominator.

Fine.

The other day I heard a piece of propaganda that was so blatant, I can't imagine anyone with a heartbeat could believe this tripe. Some public relations branch of the government warned that Saddam Hussein has been buying U.S. army uniforms in an effort to gain sympathy from the world community by having his most loyal troops dress up like U.S. soldiers and commit attrocities against his own people.

So, if any reports go out of a U.S. soldier commiting attrocities it's probably an Iraqi in disguise?

PUH-LEEZE!

I was so sickened by this pathetic, transparent grabage I couldn't see straight.

Anybody else hear about this?


So, where did you hear this story?



What do you find more believable? ( maybe a new poll brewing here...)

1.Iraqi troops dress up like U.S. soldiers and commit attrocities against own people.

2. Iraqi troops don't bother to dress up like U.S. soldiers, and commit attrocities against own people.

3. U.S. Soldiers commit attrocities against Iraqi people.

4. U.S. Soldiers dress up like Iraqui soldiers and commit attrocities against Iraqi people.

5. U.S. Soldiers dress up like Iraqui soldiers and commit attrocities against U.S. soldiers.

6. Iraqui soldiers raise their hands over their heads, holding U.S. propaganda leaflets.

7. U.S. Soldiers dress up like Iraqui soldiers and raise their hands over their heads, holding U.S. propaganda leaflets.

8. Someone just made all this up.

9. All of the above.

10. Pick two or more..

( Shemp, if you want to turn this into a poll, be my guest..:D )

P.S.
While writing this, I had a vision of an Iraqui soldier, dressing up like a U.S. soldier, wearing a rubber GWB mask, hitching a ride on a remote control drone and proceeding to piss all over a bunch of Kurds from 5,000 feet; thereby scaring the living crap out of them..

This would of course invoke anti-U.S. sentiment, all over the world... Except in some remote tropical communities, where it is considered a great honor to be pissed on from 5,000 feet by GWB or anyone remotely resembling him..

[kourama]

Originally posted by Diogenes



So, where did you hear this story?



680 news radio in Toronto.



What do you find more believable? ( maybe a new poll brewing here...)

<sip>



option 7a) Iraqi soldiers dress like women and try to get into the lifeboats while american soldiers hold Leonardo DiCaprio under water and launch Kate Winslet out a torpedo tube.

[dsm]

Originally posted by Diogenes

What do you find more believable? ( maybe a new poll brewing here...)

1.Iraqi troops dress up like U.S. soldiers and commit attrocities against own people.

2. Iraqi troops don't bother to dress up like U.S. soldiers, and commit attrocities against own people.

3. U.S. Soldiers commit attrocities against Iraqi people.

4. U.S. Soldiers dress up like Iraqui soldiers and commit attrocities against Iraqi people.

5. U.S. Soldiers dress up like Iraqui soldiers and commit attrocities against U.S. soldiers.

6. Iraqui soldiers raise their hands over their heads, holding U.S. propaganda leaflets.

7. U.S. Soldiers dress up like Iraqui soldiers and raise their hands over their heads, holding U.S. propaganda leaflets.

8. Someone just made all this up.

9. All of the above.

10. Pick two or more..


How about this?

Iraqi soldiers dress up like civilians and commit atrocities against US soldiers. US soldiers retaliate (even inadvertently) and kill (many) civilians. Arabs worldwide retaliate against the US.

:eek:

[Bluegill]

I saw this story a few days ago, too. I think on CNN. It seemed a little unlikely to me that Saddam would simply order his soldiers to dress up like US troops and then go out and commit atrocities. But then I thought of more likely scenarios...the uniforms could come in useful. Suppose Saddam was worried about his troops surrendering, and has some Republican Guards in US uniforms? Iraqi deserters try to surrender to them, and the impostors open fire on them. This will spread rumors that allied troops are killing Iraqis who try to surrender to them. He could also use impostors to enforce a "scorched earth" policy, making it look like US and allies are destroying civilian goods and infrastructure as them progress.

Besides, I feel pretty certain that the U.S. and Britain have some Iraqi military uniforms at their disposal--not for committing atrocities, but for all sorts of covert operations. It would make sense to me, at any rate.

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by kourama


option 7a) Iraqi soldiers dress like women and try to get into the lifeboats while american soldiers hold Leonardo DiCaprio under water and launch Kate Winslet out a torpedo tube.


Sorry, I didn't have a serious reply to your thread, but I like this (7a) idea also..

There are limitless possibilities for a Monty Python skit lurking here... :D

[Segnosaur]

Originally posted by dsm


How about this?

Iraqi soldiers dress up like civilians and commit atrocities against US soldiers. US soldiers retaliate (even inadvertently) and kill (many) civilians. Arabs worldwide retaliate against the US.

:eek:
Not that I'm saying that your scenario isn't possible, but what has been the experience in Afghanistan?

I know there have been suggestions that some of the Taliban leaders escaped by dressing as women, and there have been 'accidents' where civilians died. And I know there are occasional attacks by Taliban reminants.

But, have any Taliban/al Quaeda launched attacks dressed as civilians in Afghanistan?

[The Fool]

Despite the fact that the bulk of the Iraqi army is going to throw its equipment away and go home as soon as the fighting starts, there is still the problem of the inner core of motivated troops. Desperate people will try anything. Hitler tried the "dress up as Americans" trick at the end of WW2. The americans rounded them up and shot them, not much was achieved.

Obviously Saddam's only chance of survival is to hide in Baghdad underneath as many civilians as possible. In the end, his armies have not got enough of thier own equipment, let alone american equipment. In all those televised marching troop reviews you can't see the ones at the front quickly running around the back to march past the camera again :) His army is a poorly equiped, largley untrained, unmotivated rabble and will behave as such after the first shot is fired. The only resistance will come from the parts of his inner guard that don't desert. They are the ones that currently protect him from internal threat, so they may actually stick around, but I wouldn't bet a lot of money on it. Once it is obvious saddam is finished all loyalties will miraculously switch to the likely successor.

[pgwenthold]

Originally posted by Diogenes



So, where did you hear this story?



When I heard it, it was attributed to an upcoming Newsweek and based on interrogation reports, I think.

Of course, we have had such good intell coming from our interrogation that we better go out and prepare for it now.

It was worse when I heard it. Saddam had ordered the suits to be authentic down to the last stitch, they said.

[NullPointerException]

Yeah, this is such obvious BS!

They tried the same stunt when they reduced the surplus population of Afghanistan by blaming poisoned food packages on the Taliban. Nice try Bush, were on to you! ;)

[synaesthesia]

I think American troops dressed as Iraqi Republical Guards dressed as US Marines will commit atrocities against civilians and US Marines retaliate by killing Iraqi Republical Guards who retaliate by blaming civilians deaths on the Americans who in turn respond that it's obvious that Saddam is responsible for the atrocities but the left wing will not buy the American propoganda and will automatically assume that it is Americans who were responsible for the crimes against the non-combatants.

[LillyThePink]

well if you'd stop selling them stuff... you know, weapons, Anthrax, uniforms... there wouldn't be much of an issue ;)

I mean, how many Iraqi tailors have spent time in the US military making uniforms? So where's the info coming from regarding "the last stitch" for authenticity?

Ow. I think my tongue finally pierced my cheek.

[richardm]

Perhaps it's just that the excuses for "Friendly Fire" incidents are being prepared in advance? ;)

[Troll]

Originally posted by LillyThePink
well if you'd stop selling them stuff... you know, weapons, Anthrax, uniforms... there wouldn't be much of an issue ;)

I mean, how many Iraqi tailors have spent time in the US military making uniforms? So where's the info coming from regarding "the last stitch" for authenticity?

Ow. I think my tongue finally pierced my cheek.

we did stop selling. the French may not have though and thus they fear us going in and finding their connection.

But this is a man who puts civilians near military targets s he can claime that we killed X number of innocent civilians.

Remember, more than 4 times the number of iraquis civilians died by the hands of Iraq than by the hands of the US during the first Gulf war

[LillyThePink]

Originally posted by Troll


Remember, more than 4 times the number of iraquis civilians died by the hands of Iraq than by the hands of the US during the first Gulf war

Back up?

An estimated 45% of the casualties on the American side during the Gulf last time are due to friendly fire... can't you train them to aim straight? ;) 17% of those killed were due to friendly fire incidents...


http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Feb1999/n02021999_9902027.html
http://members.aol.com/amerwar/ff/ffg.htm

Also
During the war, friendly tire casualties represented seventeen percent of the total of 615 US servicemen and -women killed or wounded in Iraq, Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia in Operation Desert Storm.
From http://www.afa.org/magazine/perspectives/desert_storm/1291fire.html

Can't work out whether I'd rather get shot at by an Iraqi, or an American... probably have an equal chance of both when Allied forces go in, eh?

;)

[Jon_in_london]

By the way, wearing the uniform of your enemy is against the geneva convention. You can (and probably will) be executed for that.

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by Jon_in_london
By the way, wearing the uniform of your enemy is against the geneva convention. You can (and probably will) be executed for that.

If you just get shot wearing your own uniform..... well... :rolleyes:

[Bluegill]

Originally posted by synaesthesia
I think American troops dressed as Iraqi Republical Guards dressed as US Marines will commit atrocities against civilians and US Marines retaliate by killing Iraqi Republical Guards who retaliate by blaming civilians deaths on the Americans who in turn respond that it's obvious that Saddam is responsible for the atrocities but the left wing will not buy the American propoganda and will automatically assume that it is Americans who were responsible for the crimes against the non-combatants.

Clearly, that's a possibility--but what if the opposite is true??

[kourama]

I suddenyl had an image of a bunch of iraqi troops wearing those novelty Richard Nixon rubber masks, rushing towards an american troop waving a giant flag with the Teletubbies sun-baby on it.

woah! dude! My hands are huuuuge!

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by kourama
I suddenyl had an image of a bunch of iraqi troops wearing those novelty Richard Nixon rubber masks, rushing towards an american troop waving a giant flag with the Teletubbies sun-baby on it.

woah! dude! My hands are huuuuge!

Better with a mixture of " Nixon, Reagan and Carter "...:D

[dsm]

Originally posted by Segnosaur

Not that I'm saying that your scenario isn't possible, but what has been the experience in Afghanistan?

I know there have been suggestions that some of the Taliban leaders escaped by dressing as women, and there have been 'accidents' where civilians died. And I know there are occasional attacks by Taliban reminants.

But, have any Taliban/al Quaeda launched attacks dressed as civilians in Afghanistan?

Do the Taliban/al Quaeda have military uniforms? In other words, do they dress like anything else but civilians?

:confused:

[Segnosaur]

Originally posted by dsm


Do the Taliban/al Quaeda have military uniforms? In other words, do they dress like anything else but civilians?

:confused:
Good point. I should have clarified that more....

Have they launched any attacks where they have tried to 'blend in' with the civilian population? (Whenever I hear of any attacks in Afghanistan lately, it always seems to be a 'band of Taliban' attacking some army base.)

[dsm]

Originally posted by Segnosaur

Have they launched any attacks where they have tried to 'blend in' with the civilian population? (Whenever I hear of any attacks in Afghanistan lately, it always seems to be a 'band of Taliban' attacking some army base.)


After the Taliban were flushed from the major Afghan cities (Kabul?), the "blend in" option is not much of an option anymore as all civilians approaching our military in a provocative manner would be stopped and searched and our military is not actively trying to go en masse into civilian population areas to round anyone up.

The situation in Iraq is likely to be different in that:


Baghdad is a big city.
The population of Baghdad is 4x that of Kabul.
Therefore, "blending in" is more of an option in Baghdad.
Iraq is more likely to have suicide bombers than Afghanistan.
Saddam is not likely to abandon the city.
Therefore, our military is going to have to go in after him.
Therefore, our military will actively go into dangerous situations.
Probably a few other things I can't think of right now.


All I'm saying is that it could get sticky and mistakes happen at those times.

[Segnosaur]

Originally posted by dsm


The situation in Iraq is likely to be different in that:


Baghdad is a big city.
The population of Baghdad is 4x that of Kabul.
Therefore, "blending in" is more of an option in Baghdad.
Iraq is more likely to have suicide bombers than Afghanistan.
Saddam is not likely to abandon the city.
Therefore, our military is going to have to go in after him.
Therefore, our military will actively go into dangerous situations.
Probably a few other things I can't think of right now.


All I'm saying is that it could get sticky and mistakes happen at those times.
I agree, it could get sticky.

And, as someone pointed out in another thread, Saddam could always release those chem weapons (that he doesn't really have) over Baghdad if he knows he is trapped. (That option wasn't available to the Taliban.)

But, I do have to disagree that suicide bombers will be more likely. I figure the Taliban and al Quaeda would be more eager to sacrifice themselves than Saddam's soldiers because of the religious nature of their cause. (Even Saddam's Republican Guards may not be willing to die for just a human.)

[dsm]

Originally posted by Segnosaur

But, I do have to disagree that suicide bombers will be more likely. I figure the Taliban and al Quaeda would be more eager to sacrifice themselves than Saddam's soldiers because of the religious nature of their cause. (Even Saddam's Republican Guards may not be willing to die for just a human.)


I don't remember hearing any such tactic being used in the Soviet-Afghan war which certainly would've been the time to use it.

It only takes one suicide bomber (at the right time) to set the idea into the mind of the military that there could be more. Iraq's supposed connections to terrorist groups like Hamas might provide the means. ;)

[Kodiak]

Originally posted by Jon_in_london
By the way, wearing the uniform of your enemy is against the geneva convention. You can (and probably will) be executed for that.

A point I was just about to make.

Many Germans captured during WWII were unfortunately executed simply because they were caught wearing American winter clothing in an effort to avoid freezing to death.

That said, legitimate nazi infiltrators in US uniform (namely Pieper's and Skorzeny's troopers) were caught and executed...

[Troll]

Originally posted by LillyThePink


Back up?

An estimated 45% of the casualties on the American side during the Gulf last time are due to friendly fire... can't you train them to aim straight? ;) 17% of those killed were due to friendly fire incidents...


http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Feb1999/n02021999_9902027.html
http://members.aol.com/amerwar/ff/ffg.htm

Also
From http://www.afa.org/magazine/perspectives/desert_storm/1291fire.html

Can't work out whether I'd rather get shot at by an Iraqi, or an American... probably have an equal chance of both when Allied forces go in, eh?

;)

Damnit someone posted a link to the info here before. I'll find it again and post it for ya. I've got well over 1100 bookmarks so it may take a little time as I'll probably stop and visit the ones that turn out to be free porno for a bit.;)

But yeah we killed more of our own than the incompetent opposing forces. Miscomunication can be a real bastard at times. And before anyone gives me flack for not caring about human life and all that sad pathetic crap some like to go for, not Lilly though, I had to ID and collect the personal effects of a guy I worked with after friendly fire torched him in Gulf 1. Also saw one moron negligently shoot another while doing a weapons check while there. And some other things as well. War is going to create loss of life. Humans fight wars. humans make mistakes.

But anyhow, I'll find the linkage for ya as soon as I can. I do recall off the top of my head that the civilian number killed by the US was like 3-4000 and remember, some were human shields at military targets. But civil eruptions and other things caused something like 14000 deaths of non-military Iraquis. I'll link ya when I find it , unless the original poster sees this and posts it again.

[crackmonkey]

Well... seems as though the coalition troops have found some US uniforms in an Iraqi bunker. Initial reports and all that... 48 hour rule in effect. Keep watching.

[a_unique_person]

you mean like this?

http://www.transparencynow.com/images/klingerexpression.jpg

[Denise]

LOL!!!!

[patnray]

I first saw the story about Iraq buying coalition uniforms a couple of weeks ago, along with the speculation it was for committing atrocities to be attributed to the coalition forces. But this may have been a case of leaping to conclusions. In this morning's paper (San Jose Mercury) there was a different explaination: the uniforms may be used to infiltrate coalition lines on suicide missions...

[Baggle]

The reports I've heard are stating that the Iraqi troops(Fedayeen, I think, actually) are wearing coalition uniforms and approaching Iraqi troops. If those troops attempt to surrender, they are executed. This doesn't sound reasonable, however. After all, what if those regulars decided to open fire on the Fedayeen that are wearing enemy uniforms?

-Baggle

[UnrepentantSinner]

This is a brilliant tactic by the Iraqis.

The only response I can see is to insert Asam Akbar into their tents with some grenades.

I would suggest US soldiers dressing as Iraqi civilians, but that woudn't stop them from shooting.