Assuming that Psi is true.

[Dancing David]

In the ganzfeld thread I came to what had been an intuitive feeling before, part of the problem I have with the design of the ganzfeld study is that they have not really thought about what might happen if psi effects might actualy exist.
There are the usual things we talk about in designing a study so that we eliminate non-psi effects.
But what about the controls for the actual psi effects?
(I know this sounds totaly out there, but it is to advance science)

The most obvious one I can think of is that the reciever might actualy be precognitive and is viewing the furture to see which photo the judge is choosing.
Would this create an effect, how could it be eliminated?

[Ed]

Originally posted by Dancing David
In the ganzfeld thread I came to what had been an intuitive feeling before, part of the problem I have with the design of the ganzfeld study is that they have not really thought about what might happen if psi effects might actualy exist.
There are the usual things we talk about in designing a study so that we eliminate non-psi effects.
But what about the controls for the actual psi effects?
(I know this sounds totaly out there, but it is to advance science)

The most obvious one I can think of is that the reciever might actualy be precognitive and is viewing the furture to see which photo the judge is choosing.
Would this create an effect, how could it be eliminated?

By it's nature PSI is untestable. There is some squirrely something going on that can be invoked to explain everything.

The simple controls that minimize some of these things are, naturally, not employed so you end up with the crap discussions that are going on in the ganzfeld thread. It is always the same and makes me wonder about the motivations of the reearchers.

[JPK]

Originally posted by Ed


By it's nature PSI is untestable. There is some squirrely something going on that can be invoked to explain everything.

The simple controls that minimize some of these things are, naturally, not employed so you end up with the crap discussions that are going on in the ganzfeld thread. It is always the same and makes me wonder about the motivations of the reearchers.

Motivation of the researchers.... Perhaps something thats looks promising equals continuing funding? Just a guess.

JPK

[Ed]

Originally posted by JPK


Motivation of the researchers.... Perhaps something thats looks promising equals continuing funding? Just a guess.

JPK


The experiments are never quite good enough. They are suggestive but not definative. There is ALWAYS a flaw.

The area is BS and the "researchers" are suspect since , in spite of scads of work, there is no definative benchmark study that is replicable.

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Ed
The experiments are never quite good enough. They are suggestive but not definative. There is ALWAYS a flaw.

The area is BS and the "researchers" are suspect since , in spite of scads of work, there is no definative benchmark study that is replicable.

Well....they are "replicable" inasmuch as they all give the same result.... :D

[Yahweh]

My psionic powers tell me that any future studies of psi will turn up zilch.

May I have my prize?

[Ed]

Originally posted by Yahweh
My psionic powers tell me that any future studies of psi will turn up zilch.

May I have my prize?

BBBLLLLLLLLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATTTTT

Wrong.

They will be highly "suggestive" and will require further "exploration" with "refined" techniques.

[Hand Bent Spoon]

Before worrying about how to control for precognition, let's see something, anything, paranormal indicated by these studies.

Then, and only then, should you worry about being able to tell one paranormal ability from another.

[Kerberos]

Originally posted by Dancing David
In the ganzfeld thread I came to what had been an intuitive feeling before, part of the problem I have with the design of the ganzfeld study is that they have not really thought about what might happen if psi effects might actualy exist.
There are the usual things we talk about in designing a study so that we eliminate non-psi effects.
But what about the controls for the actual psi effects?
(I know this sounds totaly out there, but it is to advance science)

The most obvious one I can think of is that the reciever might actualy be precognitive and is viewing the furture to see which photo the judge is choosing.
Would this create an effect, how could it be eliminated?
You could simply have a test study without a sender, if the person had precognition he would score statistically significant reslutls both with and without sender, if he was telepathic he would score statistically significant resault only when there was a sender, and if he had no paranormal powers he would score about average on both tests.

[thaiboxerken]

Why do these researchers keep doing these experiments? Because it's easy money and it's not a job they can really be fired from as long as they keep finding "promising yet inconclusive" data. Some of them might actually be delusional and believe they are doing good science, but I really doubt it.

[evilgoldtoesock]

What's more amazing than psychic vision?

Ordinary vision! The sheer complexity of the human sense of sight is staggering.

So, are there any remote viewers out there that can tell me exactly how my eyes and visual cortex works?

Here we are, living in an age of real "miracles," such as the internet, DNA research, and the discoveries of quantum physics (to name a a few randomly) and people still feel the need to search for PSI?

Absurd Question:

So, umm let's just say we invent a time machine and transport someone from 400 years ago into the present. Now, are they going to be more impressed with Remote Viewing, or more impressed with Microsoft Xbox?

[Ratman_tf]

Originally posted by evilgoldtoesock
So, umm let's just say we invent a time machine and transport someone from 400 years ago into the present. Now, are they going to be more impressed with Remote Viewing, or more impressed with Microsoft Xbox? [/B]

I'd be more impressed with Remote Viewing, but I'm not a fan of X-Box's game library. :D

[Marian]

Originally posted by Dancing David
The most obvious one I can think of is that the reciever might actualy be precognitive and is viewing the furture to see which photo the judge is choosing.
Would this create an effect, how could it be eliminated?


Remove the observer. You could write a computer program that would randomly select images (real actual images) that would then remove them and put them into the location.

The person makes the prediction, then and only then is the item observed to verify. Up until that time (excluding 'paranormal') there are no human observers. (No cats though! ;))

That would be one way to 'test' an ability to see if it was a form of telepathy/mind reading, or precognition. However, first you'd have to find an ability that is demonstrated before further testing to narrow it down (as others have said) but this works off the assumption that such powers would be found to exist. I'm sure though that were that the case, people could come up with even better testing measures.

[Polux]

Originally posted by Yahweh
My psionic powers tell me that any future studies of psi will turn up zilch.

May I have my prize?

Absolutely! However... to demostrate this prediction we must wait for eternity, that is, until there is no more "future" and all possible studies have been verified.

[thaiboxerken]

He could lose the wager within his lifetime, if "psi" effect is demonstrated scientifically within it.

[JMA]

Hi, guys

Well, I think that if Psi is true, the all field of experimental psychology is in a lot of trouble!!! In experimental psychology, there is a lot of study with deception. So, if the people can read the mind of the PhD psychologist doing the experiment... Well, with the Ganzfeld results, we can start burning all the psychology textbook :p

And it's the same for clinical psychology...

See you,

[Polux]

Originally posted by thaiboxerken
He could lose the wager within his lifetime, if "psi" effect is demonstrated scientifically within it.
Sure, but that is a BIG "if"... :)