Elevatorgate in The Economist

[Humes fork]

Yes, really (http://www.economist.com/blogs/gulliver/2011/07/hotel-stories):

This reminded me of the recent dustup between Richard Dawkins and the blogger known as SkepChick. At a recent conference she mentioned that it made her uncomfortable when another attendee propositioned her in the lift around 4am. Mr Dawkins took to the comments of a blog to mock her for overreacting, and was roundly criticised for it.

How come this event is so (in)famous?:confused:

[Tsukasa Buddha]

It has has a hero, a villain, and harrowing danger (what each of those are depends on the point of view); all it needs is Michael Bay to give it explosions and it will be the summer's big hit!

[Skeptic Guy]

I'm not sure how what happened to the writer in the story reminds the writer of "Elevatorgate", but it seems to have gone beyond the Skeptic Community.

[Korren]

It has has a hero, a villain, and harrowing danger (what each of those are depends on the point of view); all it needs is Michael Bay to give it explosions and it will be the summer's big hit!

"Starring George Clooney as Elevator Guy"

[johnny karate]

"Starring George Clooney Steve Buscemi as Elevator Guy"

ftfy

I'm sure of it was someone like George Clooney doing the propositioning, the story would have had a much different ending.

[Psi Baba]

ftfy

I'm sure of it was someone like George Clooney doing the propositioning, the story would have had a much different ending.
Definitely. Brad Dourif would probably be a better choice.

[ravdin]

I confess that I don't understand how getting mocked by Richard Dawkins is comparable to having a crazy person burst into your hotel room in the middle of the night.

[Humes fork]

I confess that I don't understand how getting mocked by Richard Dawkins on your blog is comparable to having a crazy person burst into your hotel room in the middle of the night.

It wasn't even on Skepchick, it was on PZ Myers' blog.

[ravdin]

It wasn't even on Skepchick, it was on PZ Myers' blog.

Thanks, I fixed it. But still- I could see the author comparing his experience to Rebecca's (in the elevator). But what does it have to do with her public spat with Dawkins?

[Checkmite]

Perhaps it's just that Richard Dawkins is so insufferable that a "backlash" against him from fellow freethinkers is worthy of more visibility in their eyes.

[bluesjnr]

"Starring George Clooney as Elevator Guy"

ftfy

I'm sure of it was someone like George Clooney doing the propositioning, the story would have had a much different ending.

Definitely. Brad Dourif would probably be a better choice.

So Rebecca would'a ********** a good looking guy? Is that where we're at with this pish?

[Korren]

So Rebecca would'a ********** a good looking guy? Is that where we're at with this pish?

I was trying for a bit of comedic irony -- I didn't expect anyone to take it as a straight line.

The "I bet it would have gone differently if he'd been George Clooney" line is pretty damned toxic. It is insulting, belittling and entirely besides the point. It also assumes facts not in evidence (okay, we are probably fairly safe in assuming Elevator Guy wasn't, in fact, George Clooney -- but this line isn't actually about Clooney, and for all we know the guy might very well have been good looking, fit and attractive) and even if it, by accident, it happened to be true, so what? If a person A goes a little googly-eyed over Person B's charm, looks or fame and overlooks B's boorish or inappropriate behaviour, how does that make B's behaviour any less boorish or inapproriate? The whole thing is just a very underhanded, very ugly personal attack.

[Baloney]

First, who doesn't use the deadbolts on their hotel doors these days? Second, I'd be talking to the hotel management about a little something like a refund if someone burst into my locked room.

[Skeptic Ginger]

...
How come this event is so (in)famous?:confused:

That was a year ago when elevatorgate was the it topic and Dawkins is famous. What's the surprise that someone noticed Dawkins in a feminism row at about the time a French presidential candidate was accused of raping a maid?

[Macgyver1968]

I was trying for a bit of comedic irony -- I didn't expect anyone to take it as a straight line.

The "I bet it would have gone differently if he'd been George Clooney" line is pretty damned toxic. It is insulting, belittling and entirely besides the point. It also assumes facts not in evidence (okay, we are probably fairly safe in assuming Elevator Guy wasn't, in fact, George Clooney -- but this line isn't actually about Clooney, and for all we know the guy might very well have been good looking, fit and attractive) and even if it, by accident, it happened to be true, so what? If a person A goes a little googly-eyed over Person B's charm, looks or fame and overlooks B's boorish or inappropriate behaviour, how does that make B's behaviour any less boorish or inapproriate? The whole thing is just a very underhanded, very ugly personal attack.

That reminded me of this:

gBVuAGFcGKY

[Beerina]

I was trying for a bit of comedic irony -- I didn't expect anyone to take it as a straight line.

The "I bet it would have gone differently if he'd been George Clooney" line is pretty damned toxic. It is insulting, belittling and entirely besides the point.

Which is to say, it is absolutely not beyond the point.

Of course, such an attractive, wealthy, famous person would never have gotten to the crude statements stage, already being back in the hotel room banging their drooling new conquest, who is in the process of having the greatest night they ever had, or ever would have.


[insert picture of Ralphy curled up with his Red Ryder Bolt-Action BB Gun]

[Cain]

Yes, really (http://www.economist.com/blogs/gulliver/2011/07/hotel-stories):
How come this event is so (in)famous?:confused:

Because you don't ask someone for coffee in an elevator at 4 O'clock in the morning. He might as well have whipped out his cock and threatened to rape her. Guys, don't do that.

[Rat]

First, who doesn't use the deadbolts on their hotel doors these days? Second, I'd be talking to the hotel management about a little something like a refund if someone burst into my locked room.
I quite recently stayed in a hotel (https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/H7yYf3aoQ2w8rjY5oju0JNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=d irectlink) that had not only no deadbolt, but not even a lock on the door. And there was a good inch-wide gap at the top and bottom of the door.

[Kevin_Lowe]

So Rebecca would'a ********** a good looking guy? Is that where we're at with this pish?

Sexual harassment is unwanted attention, commentary or whatever. The fact that sexual advances or behaviour which are not unwelcome do not constitute sexual harassment is baked into the definition.

Now a certain idiotic subset of "men's rights" whiners argue that this is a bad thing, because how on Earth can any man have any clue whatsoever whether their actions would be welcome or unwelcome? Huh? Huh? It's impossible, right? So it's against their human rights for sexual harassment laws to exist, right?

My guess is that they really wish such laws didn't exist, so they could grope and leer freely. However the talking point they put forward is that it's terribly unfair that existing laws and norms discriminate against the socially inept, stupid, ugly, smelly and/or vile, and that such laws should be rewritten so that they equally oppress attractive, socially skilled people who are making welcome sexual advances.

Now I think it's just a plain and simple fact that if RW had been asked out by exactly the kind of man, woman or whatever she personally finds stunningly attractive then there would never have been an issue. I don't see this as anything that makes RW hypocritical or inconsistent or anything of the sort however. It's how it should work. If you're not very certain that the person in the lift is in to you, don't make a move in the lift.

I suspect that your hostility to this idea is a misplaced response to the "men's rights" idiots I mentioned earlier. The factual claim itself is perfectly sound, it's just commonly deployed as part of a package deal of misogynistic, entitled stupidity.

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Because you don't ask someone for coffee in an elevator at 4 O'clock in the morning. He might as well have whipped out his cock and threatened to rape her. Guys, don't do that.

You're insane. You want to castrate all males?!

[Skeptic Ginger]

Because you don't ask someone for coffee in an elevator at 4 O'clock in the morning. He might as well have whipped out his cock and threatened to rape her. Guys, don't do that.I'm beginning to understand you better. ;)

Regardless if people deny it would have been different if elevator guy was George Clooney, it would have been. People flirt and hook up. It's as old as Western culture.

[truethat]

I didn't read it yet but "am I right or am I right" three seconds. Marketing plan 101. Total disgust over here.

[ronin688]

The article linked by the OP is almost a year old.

It's not like this is being dug up again by the media. It was a (non)story and it passed. I don't really see how it's relevant today except to whip the argument back up.

[Damien Evans]

Perhaps it's just that Richard Dawkins is so insufferable that a "backlash" against him from fellow freethinkers is worthy of more visibility in their eyes.

As an aside, I've never understood why people consider Richard Dawkins insufferable or whatever else.

[RandFan]

Who will play Rebecca in the movie?

[RandFan]

The article linked by the OP is almost a year old.

It's not like this is being dug up again by the media. It was a (non)story and it passed. I don't really see how it's relevant today except to whip the argument back up.Whether or not it's a story is relative. For those who have a life it isn't. For the rest of us it's critical to the survival of the species.

[Brian-M]

"Starring George Clooney as Elevator Guy"

No, Danny Devito would be more plausible. Plus he can re-use his line from Other People's Money:

"We make passionate love the rest of the night. The first one that comes, loses."

[ronin688]

Whether or not it's a story is relative. For those who have a life it isn't. For the rest of us it's critical to the survival of the species.

:D

[Wildy]

I'm not sure how what happened to the writer in the story reminds the writer of "Elevatorgate", but it seems to have gone beyond the Skeptic Community.

It went beyond the Skeptic Community last year (http://gawker.com/5818993/richard-dawkins-torn-limb-from-limbby-atheists).

[Baloney]

I quite recently stayed in a hotel (https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/H7yYf3aoQ2w8rjY5oju0JNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=d irectlink) that had not only no deadbolt, but not even a lock on the door. And there was a good inch-wide gap at the top and bottom of the door.

Well, I know it wasn't in Leicester: every room has triple locks! :D

[Mycroft]

Yes, really (http://www.economist.com/blogs/gulliver/2011/07/hotel-stories):



How come this event is so (in)famous?:confused:

Because the issues of how we deal with our sexuality, the subtle differences between a welcome advance and a creepy encounter, what behaviors are or are not acceptable, are universal issues everyone has to learn to cope with and work through. Mostly in the environment of puberty when nature circumvents our critical thinking process while forcing us to deal with all kinds of stress and anxiety and the instruction offered to us by society is both vague and contradictory.

On top of that the facts are just vague enough that everyone can read into them whatever hits their hot button. Women can either recoil in horror as they remember every sleazy comment or pass that's ever been directed their way, or their hearts can go out to this poor young man who was only trying to put himself out there. Men can look down on him in smug superiority knowing they would never be so uncool, or they can empathize with him and rail against the unjust woman who shoots him down just for asking.

Because it's difficult to read about the issue, to follow the discussions without having a strong opinion that must be shared, even if the strong opinion is mostly about the person sharing the opinion and has little or no connection to the actual two people who were in that elevator that night.

[tomwaits]

Because the issues of how we deal with our sexuality, the subtle differences between a welcome advance and a creepy encounter, what behaviors are or are not acceptable, are universal issues everyone has to learn to cope with and work through. Mostly in the environment of puberty when nature circumvents our critical thinking process while forcing us to deal with all kinds of stress and anxiety and the instruction offered to us by society is both vague and contradictory.

On top of that the facts are just vague enough that everyone can read into them whatever hits their hot button. Women can either recoil in horror as they remember every sleazy comment or pass that's ever been directed their way, or their hearts can go out to this poor young man who was only trying to put himself out there. Men can look down on him in smug superiority knowing they would never be so uncool, or they can empathize with him and rail against the unjust woman who shoots him down just for asking.

Because it's difficult to read about the issue, to follow the discussions without having a strong opinion that must be shared, even if the strong opinion is mostly about the person sharing the opinion and has little or no connection to the actual two people who were in that elevator that night.

Well said. It's just like one of those law school hypotheticals (except the "law" in this case is social convention). It would be one of the horrible final exam questions where you could write 100 pages on the topic if only you didn't have just one hour...

[zooterkin]

It has has a hero, a villain, and harrowing danger (what each of those are depends on the point of view); all it needs is Michael Bay to give it explosions and it will be the summer's big hit!

Megan Fox as Rebecca?

[Stellafane]

In the film, EG should play himself (which is probably what he ended up doing that night anyway).

[brodski]

Perhaps it's just that Richard Dawkins is so insufferable that a "backlash" against him from fellow freethinkers is worthy of more visibility in their eyes.

PZ Myers makes Dawkins look like a mild mannered self effacing moderate, so be careful what you wish for.

[mike3]

Sexual harassment is unwanted attention, commentary or whatever. The fact that sexual advances or behaviour which are not unwelcome do not constitute sexual harassment is baked into the definition.

Now a certain idiotic subset of "men's rights" whiners argue that this is a bad thing, because how on Earth can any man have any clue whatsoever whether their actions would be welcome or unwelcome? Huh? Huh? It's impossible, right? So it's against their human rights for sexual harassment laws to exist, right?

My guess is that they really wish such laws didn't exist, so they could grope and leer freely. However the talking point they put forward is that it's terribly unfair that existing laws and norms discriminate against the socially inept, stupid, ugly, smelly and/or vile, and that such laws should be rewritten so that they equally oppress attractive, socially skilled people who are making welcome sexual advances.

Now I think it's just a plain and simple fact that if RW had been asked out by exactly the kind of man, woman or whatever she personally finds stunningly attractive then there would never have been an issue. I don't see this as anything that makes RW hypocritical or inconsistent or anything of the sort however. It's how it should work. If you're not very certain that the person in the lift is in to you, don't make a move in the lift.

I suspect that your hostility to this idea is a misplaced response to the "men's rights" idiots I mentioned earlier. The factual claim itself is perfectly sound, it's just commonly deployed as part of a package deal of misogynistic, entitled stupidity.

What should one do if one's socially inept?

[zooterkin]

What should one do if one's socially inept?

Eschew caffeine.

[Skeptic Ginger]

...Now I think it's just a plain and simple fact that if RW had been asked out by exactly the kind of man, woman or whatever she personally finds stunningly attractive then there would never have been an issue. I don't see this as anything that makes RW hypocritical or inconsistent or anything of the sort however. It's how it should work. If you're not very certain that the person in the lift is in to you, don't make a move in the lift....Goes both ways. If you don't want to look like a hypocrite, don't flirt with every guy around and revel in Skepchick fame then make a ridiculously over-generalized statement on a video, "Guys, don't do that," when some unattractive guy hits on you when you're tired and then get all outraged if anyone suggests it wasn't that big of a deal.

But I digress.....

I did like your comments, BTW, they were good with the above exception that I think RW was indeed hypocritical.

[RandFan]

In the film, EG should play himself (which is probably what he ended up doing that night anyway).:)

[Belz...]

Definitely. Brad Dourif would probably be a better choice.

+1.

[Phlebas]

From the original story:

This reminded me of the recent dustup between Richard Dawkins and the blogger known as SkepChick.

Has Rebecca ever been known as "Skepchick"? She's been just Rebecca everywhere except Twitter where she's @rebeccawatson for as long as I've been aware of her.

Oh, and if Clooney had been there and wanted to hook up with Rebecca, he probably would have talked to her at the bar first.

[Skeptic Ginger]

From the original story:



Has Rebecca ever been known as "Skepchick"? She's been just Rebecca everywhere except Twitter where she's @rebeccawatson for as long as I've been aware of her.

Oh, and if Clooney had been there and wanted to hook up with Rebecca, he probably would have talked to her at the bar first.Yes, RW started out as Skepchick.

[Skeptical Greg]

Megan Fox as Rebecca?

No way..

Carla Gallo maybe.. (?)

[BenBurch]

Ok. Can somebody summarize what the elevator incident actually was? I never saw anything on it originally, just myriads of comments after the fact.

[pgwenthold]

Goes both ways. If you don't want to look like a hypocrite, don't flirt with every guy around.

So she was asking for it?

Maybe she shouldn't dress so sleazy, either, right?

[RandFan]

Ok. Can somebody summarize what the elevator incident actually was? I never saw anything on it originally, just myriads of comments after the fact.

Here is a timeline of events (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=7397081#post7397081). That might help. The beginning isn't cronological so start at World Atheist Convention June 3-5 2011

[tomwaits]

So she was asking for it?

Asking for what? A guy asked if she wanted coffee, she said no, and that was the end of it, as I understand it. It was the subsequent comments online, and all the arguments that proceeded it, that was at issue.

[BenBurch]

Here is a timeline of events (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=7397081#post7397081). That might help. The beginning isn't cronological so start at World Atheist Convention June 3-5 2011

That's IT?

She cut off her hair, dressed in ashes and sack cloth, wept and gnashed her teeth, and created an international incident over being offered coffee???

Wow.

She's the wrong gender to be a Drama Queen, otherwise it would fit to a "t".

[Skeptical Greg]

Wrong gender ?

Drama queens are usually male ?

[Skeptic Ginger]

So she was asking for it?

Maybe she shouldn't dress so sleazy, either, right?Define "it". :rolleyes:

[pgwenthold]

Define "it". :rolleyes:

Being propositioned by a total stranger in an elevator at 4 am.

What does whether she did or did not flirt with anyone else at any other time have any relevance to whether that was appropriate?

[Skeptical Greg]

Elevator Gate Revisited

:popcorn1

[Cain]

Being propositioned by a total stranger in an elevator at 4 am.

A nervous(?) guy said, "Don't take this the wrong way, but I find you very interesting, and I would like to talk more. Would you like to come to my hotel room for coffee?"

Wonder if he got that sleazebag line off the Internet.

The only time you ever talk to a girl and say something like "don't take this the wrong way..." is if what follows is an insult or back-handed compliment. The guy came off as needy, which, as some brilliant poster mentioned earlier, is "pussy kryptonite." The irony is that jerks who treat women as interchangeable vaginas will be viewed as more attractive. The guy who says she's "very interesting" and wants to "to talk" is a creepy weirdo.

Edited for Rule 10.

[BenBurch]

Wrong gender ?

Drama queens are usually male ?

Yes.

queen n.
1. a. The wife or widow of a king.
b. A woman sovereign.

2. Something having eminence or supremacy in a given domain and personified as a woman: Paris is regarded as the queen of cities.

3. Abbr. Q Games a. The most powerful chess piece, able to move in any direction over any number of empty squares in a straight line.
b. A playing card bearing the figure of a queen, ranking above the jack and below the king.

4. The fertile, fully developed female in a colony of social bees, ants, or termites.

5. A mature female cat, especially one kept for breeding purposes.

6. Offensive Slang Used as a disparaging term for a homosexual man.

[sir drinks-a-lot]

I'm late to the party as well. I guess I dropped off of randi.org and all of the skeptics boards for about six months and missed it. I made up for it by reading most of the relevant material for the last few hours. What a load of tripe most of it is. Dawkins should be congratulated, as his are among the only few reasonable comments.

[Daald]

OHHH YEAHHH!!! Elevator gate again. Let's see who survives until the end of the thread this time.

[Skeptical Greg]

Yes.

..

Thanks for the etymology lesson, but the " drama " part, sort of negates your premise..

http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/drama-queen

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/drama%20queen

[epepke]

OHHH YEAHHH!!! Elevator gate again. Let's see who survives until the end of the thread this time.

Scooping my eyes out with grapefruit spoons seems appealing right now, but I'm all out of grapefruit spoons.

[BenBurch]

Thanks for the etymology lesson, but the " drama " part, sort of negates your premise..

http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/drama-queen

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/drama%20queen

Origin is in the Gay community.

[BenBurch]

Scooping my eyes out with grapefruit spoons seems appealing right now, but I'm all out of grapefruit spoons.

A spork can serve for enucleation in a pinch.

[Skeptical Greg]

Origin is in the Gay community.

I guess you win then ..

[Corsair 115]

OHHH YEAHHH!!! Elevator gate again. Let's see who survives until the end of the thread this time.


Two men enter! One man leaves!

Er, wait.

Two persons enter! One person leaves!

[Skeptic Ginger]

Being propositioned by a total stranger in an elevator at 4 am....So what?

[Skeptic Ginger]

I'm late to the party as well. I guess I dropped off of randi.org and all of the skeptics boards for about six months and missed it. I made up for it by reading most of the relevant material for the last few hours. What a load of tripe most of it is. Dawkins should be congratulated, as his are among the only few reasonable comments.Yep, you got it right.

[MsFortune]

Can you imagine being Elevator Guy? The most famous creepy guy? How'd you like that on your tombstone?

[Skeptic Ginger]

He's anonymous.

[Matthew Best]

The only time you ever talk to a girl and say something like "don't take this the wrong way..." is if what follows is an insult or back-handed compliment.

Yeah! Or if you're about to say something but you don't want her to take it the wrong way.

[epepke]

Can you imagine being Elevator Guy? The most famous creepy guy? How'd you like that on your tombstone?

I wouldn't worry too much. To paraphrase John Gordon, wanting to have coffee with Rebecca Watson is like losing your head at a ripple party or being seduced by David Eisenhower. It is something no self-respecting adult should ever admit to.

[Travis]

ftfy

I'm sure of it was someone like George Clooney doing the propositioning, the story would have had a much different ending.

If we're going to change random variables then the discussion becomes much less relevant.

What if it happened on top of Mount Chimborazo during a solar eclipse?

It's also a bit presumptuous to just assume she'd jump Clooney in any given situation.

Who will play Rebecca in the movie?No way..

Carla Gallo maybe.. (?)

Carla Gallo would be my first choice too.

What should one do if one's socially inept?

If one is that socially inept they are probably not aware of it and think they are hugely socially aware. And if you legitimately are socially aware then you have all night to chastise yourself for stupidly hitting on a strange woman in a confined space the same night she gave a speech saying such activities are not welcome.

[Skeptic Ginger]

If we're going to change random variables then the discussion becomes much less relevant.
.....Clooney wasn't a random variable, it was an illustrative example. If EG had been someone RW wanted to have a late night rendezvous with, the come-on wouldn't have seemed creepy. We argued this ad nauseum so there's no sense repeating the argument. But the variable wasn't random.

[Cain]

Yeah! Or if you're about to say something but you don't want her to take it the wrong way.

Ridiculous male logic.

[Mycroft]

I wouldn't worry too much. To paraphrase John Gordon, wanting to have coffee with Rebecca Watson is like losing your head at a ripple party or being seduced by David Eisenhower. It is something no self-respecting adult should ever admit to.

I would totally have coffee with Rebecca Watson, but then I have a profound fondness for coffee and will have it with almost anyone. It must be coffee of quality, though.

[Walter Ego]

Elevatorgate is sooo 2011. Watson's new jihad is getting Randi to fire DJ Grothe. She holding her breath and boycotting TAM until he does and Pope PZ Myers is in her corner so she must be right.

The Skeptic's movement is being taken over by the politically correct thought police.

[Seismosaurus]

What should one do if one's socially inept?

Don't proposition women. Or do anything that might be interpreted as propositioning women. Try not to talk to them if you can avoid it, pretty much.

[Ethan Thane Athen]

Sexual harassment is unwanted attention, commentary or whatever. The fact that sexual advances or behaviour which are not unwelcome do not constitute sexual harassment is baked into the definition.

Now a certain idiotic subset of "men's rights" whiners argue that this is a bad thing, because how on Earth can any man have any clue whatsoever whether their actions would be welcome or unwelcome? Huh? Huh? It's impossible, right? So it's against their human rights for sexual harassment laws to exist, right?

My guess is that they really wish such laws didn't exist, so they could grope and leer freely. However the talking point they put forward is that it's terribly unfair that existing laws and norms discriminate against the socially inept, stupid, ugly, smelly and/or vile, and that such laws should be rewritten so that they equally oppress attractive, socially skilled people who are making welcome sexual advances.

Now I think it's just a plain and simple fact that if RW had been asked out by exactly the kind of man, woman or whatever she personally finds stunningly attractive then there would never have been an issue. I don't see this as anything that makes RW hypocritical or inconsistent or anything of the sort however. It's how it should work. If you're not very certain that the person in the lift is in to you, don't make a move in the lift.

I suspect that your hostility to this idea is a misplaced response to the "men's rights" idiots I mentioned earlier. The factual claim itself is perfectly sound, it's just commonly deployed as part of a package deal of misogynistic, entitled stupidity.

He asked her to join him for a coffee... It's the acknowledged, polite way of suggesting spending some time getting to know eachother better in a private (though not always) setting with an under-current of it possibly leading to something else (at that time and place, a pretty strong undercurrent but it's still the polite way of asking). She said no, he left it at that.

She then showed what an up herself, self-publicist she is by creating a veritable ****-storm around it.

If he'd cornered her, leered at her and said something along the lines of 'C'mon love, you're obviously gagging for it' then the bolded bit may at least have been half accurate...

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Who will play Rebecca in the movie?

Thora Birch

[remirol]

Thora Birch

Heh. Only a few people got _all_ that reference.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Heh. Only a few people got _all_ that reference.

:)