Bill O'Reilly blames secularists for decline of morality in America

[COCT]

On Wednesday night, Bill O'Reilly said secularists are to blame for the decline of America's morality. He based his rant on recent Gallup poll results. But he deliberately distorted the poll results to make his point. He'd have a hard time saying this one wasn't spin...

I've written an article about it at http://www.churchofcriticalthinking.com/archives/000072the_spin_stops_here_.html

COCT

[Charlie Monoxide]

I too feel proud to be part of the group dragging he morals of this country down. BTW What the hell are the "morals of this country"?

In my universe, anyone I have met who has shown critical thinking and often times a rejection of religeon, has been a very "moralistic" person. They never tried to kill me or curse my mother, therefore, they're number 1 in my books.

Of all the racists I've known, it seems 100% considered themselves christians. One racists in particular even asked me (verbatim) "where do you get your morals?" To me racism is an immoral philosophy.

I enjoyed the Oreilly review. He is a "way too easy" target to be critical of. He's just some fluff on TV. I try not to notice him when channel surfing.

Charlie (thank jeebus it's Friday) Monoxide

PS I identified the racists when they used the famous N word, or just stated sincerely that they disliked certain groups (ie those damn Jews running Hollywood).

[Tony]

Great article!!

[daenku32]

"and violent video games gross billions more for corporations."

My VERY conservative and VERY religiously upright work comrades are avid players of the violent video games. And most of the games they play were pirated.

[pgwenthold]

Originally posted by COCT
On Wednesday night, Bill O'Reilly said secularists are to blame for the decline of America's morality. He based his rant on recent Gallup poll results. But he deliberately distorted the poll results to make his point. He'd have a hard time saying this one wasn't spin...

I've written an article about it at http://www.churchofcriticalthinking.com/archives/000072the_spin_stops_here_.html

COCT

The best part of it all is that you have only addressed the initial part OReilly's claims, and that there was a whole rant of totally unsupported spewage that can be challenged as well. Basically, it was a piece of a faulty premise supported by blatent assertion.

IOW, even if the gallop polls said what he said they did, there was no reason to believe his conclusion.

[COCT]

Originally posted by pgwenthold

The best part of it all is that you have only addressed the initial part OReilly's claims, and that there was a whole rant of totally unsupported spewage that can be challenged as well. Basically, it was a piece of a faulty premise supported by blatent assertion.

As I watched it, the "unsupported spewage" is what really jumped out at me, and that's what I thought I really was going to end up writing about. But when I sat down to write, I thought, "Gee, I should look at that Gallup Poll and see what it really says." That made it easy. Once I realized I chould show his conclusion was blatantly wrong, the rest became secondary.

[daenku32]

Well it's not freaking wonder..

The religious right, including O'Reilly considers Huns and Visigoths and the entire Dark Ages to be a "Secular" period:

http://www.oreillyfactor.com/story/0%2C2933%2C116331%2C00.html
O'REILLY: OK. OK. Ms. Jacoby, you just made a tremendously erroneous statement that I want to rebut, and then you can rebut me.

Religion has been a civilizing force in this world. Do you remember the Dark Ages (search) when everything broke down and the Roman Empire (search) went out of business and the Huns (search) and Visigoths (search) took over?

Well, order was only restored when the Catholic Church began to keep records and began to build up a structure.

Now madam, if you're going to tell me it was better under the Huns and the Visigoths then than it was under a structural church I mean, come on.

[corplinx]

Jimmy Swaggart
Robert Tilton
Jim Baker
Just about every Catholic Priest


and its the athiests who are are morally corrupting the US

[Tmy]

In my view its teh Jesus freaks trying to take over. THe seculars just jump up to stop them.

Plus as the US becomes more diverse you have to be more secular. You cant account for every belief. In the old days religion/state mixing was just fine. So long as it was Christian!!

[Ladewig]

LADEWIG: OK. OK. Mr. O'Reilly, you just made a tremendously erroneous statement that I want to rebut, and then you can rebut me.

Religion has NOT been a civilizing force in this world. Do you remember the 1500's and 1600's when the Roman Catholic Church took over and people were imprisoned or executed for scientific thought?

Well, civilization advanced only when humanists and deists started the Age of Enlightenment. Medicine leapt forward once RC law preventing the disection of corpses was removed. Civil rights formed as people realized that God does not choose who is to be king.

Now sir, if you're going to tell me it was better under the divine right of rule (with the church's support) than it was under consitutional governments I mean, come on.

[Dorian Gray]

DORIAN GRAY: Not to mention, Mr. O'Reilly, you're a Catholic, aren't you? Are you telling me that Catholicism is the saving grace of humanity, or are you secretly hiding your ankle-grabbing altarboy past behind attacks on secularism?

Also, if you're against secularism, why do you end every show with secular spiel rather than something like 'God bless the Factor'?

[Abdul Alhazred]

Originally posted by Tmy
In my view its teh Jesus freaks trying to take over. THe seculars just jump up to stop them.

It's not one or the other. You have two contending sides each with a power base. And I'm not talking primarily about Dem vs Rep or liberal vs conservative.

This is a distinct, though overlapping struggle.

You will find that in addition to the religious right, there is also a religious left. That claims such things as that homosexuality is a gift from God. Though gay myself, I say phooey!

Plus as the US becomes more diverse you have to be more secular. You cant account for every belief. In the old days religion/state mixing was just fine. So long as it was Christian!!

Up to a point this is true. Freedom of speech covers more in the USA than elsewhere, but does not cover death threats. There may be a similar limit to freedom of religion.

[Abdul Alhazred]

Originally posted by Charlie Monoxide
I too feel proud to be part of the group dragging he morals of this country down. BTW What the hell are the "morals of this country"?


I have an answer to that question, though it won't be the same as O'Reilly's.

It is the "invisible hand". Everybody pulling in a different direction, and the vector sum of same are the "morals of this country", for good or ill.

[Abdul Alhazred]

Originally posted by daenku32
"and violent video games gross billions more for corporations."

My VERY conservative and VERY religiously upright work comrades are avid players of the violent video games. And most of the games they play were pirated.

Do they play Nethack? Given away free, so no copyright issues, but stealing the boss's time and bandwidth is another moral issue.

I am a chaotic elfin ranger.

My elfin dagger is named Sting.

I have just eaten a floating eye corpse, which conveys the telepathy intrinsic. Now I must find an uncursed blindfold or a potion of blindness or something.

My initial dog was named Spot. A falling rock killed him. I have tamed a pony who I have named Slepnir. Now I am looking for a saddle so I can ride him.

My name is Rumsdelf.

I have just slain a Liberal in the Throne Room. What will happen to me if I eat the corpse? Will it convey the liberalism intrinsic? I've run out of food, so this is an important question.

Right wing enough for you?

[Abdul Alhazred]

Originally posted by corplinx
Jimmy Swaggart
Robert Tilton
Jim Baker
Just about every Catholic Priest

and its the athiests who are are morally corrupting the US

Note spelling: Jim Baker was W's daddy's Secretary of State. You mean Jim Bakker.

Well I've heard of all those, but it seems to me that Swaggart and Tilton are beneath the radar for most Americans. And most Americans heard of Bakker only when he got in trouble and went to prison.

But maybe that's just because I'm a navel gazing northeasterner that I think that. But that's how I recall it.

I know of Swaggart and Tilton because of "anti" websites, not major media.

On the other hand, the Catholic thing is big and getting bigger.

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by Tony
Great article!!
So great it needs to be said twice!

[Abdul Alhazred]

Originally posted by Yahweh

So great it needs to be said twice!

Hey Yahweh! You're a self-existent being. THE self-existent being according to some. This must give you a unique perspective.

What do you think of:

Bill O'Reilly?
Sean Hannity?

Bob Grant?
Barry Farber?
Joe Pyne?
Alam Burke?
Les Craine?

Rush Limbaugh (the big one)?

If you're not New York area, you probably don't know Bob Grant, though he has occasionally gone national.

You're nowhere near old enough to remember Joe Pyne, Alan Burke, Barry Farber, or Les Craine.

Limbaugh didn't invent conservative talk radio, he was the first to become a millionaire doing it.

[Ed]

O'Reilly is an entertainer. His job is to generate audiences which in turn generate ad revenues for his parent company. He found his schtick. It works. To act shocked that O "spins" is really naive.

[zenith-nadir]

Originally posted by Ed
O'Reilly is an entertainer. His job is to generate audiences which in turn generate ad revenues for his parent company. He found his schtick. It works. To act shocked that O "spins" is really naive. So true. No entertainment, no ratings. No ratings, no sponsors. No sponsors, no show for Bill... ;)

[COCT]

Originally posted by Ed
O'Reilly is an entertainer. His job is to generate audiences which in turn generate ad revenues for his parent company. He found his schtick. It works. To act shocked that O "spins" is really naive.
The problem isn't that O'Reilly is an entertainer. Hell, I find him somewhat entertaining myself. It's a bigger problem than that. The problem is that much of his audience does fall under the "naive" category, and trust what O'Reilly says. I see no disclaimer on his program that says, "For Entertainment Purposes Only." He's promoted as being fair and balanced, and there are millions who believe that.

When the naive go to the voting booth, their votes count just as much as yours.

Great article!!So great it needs to be said twice!
Thanks!

COCT

[Ed]

Originally posted by zenith-nadir
So true. No entertainment, no ratings. No ratings, no sponsors. No sponsors, no show for Bill... ;)


Which is why getting all upset over Bill or Sean or Al or Rush is the same as seriously hating a "bad guy" in wrestling or seriously disliking a sporting team. It is all manipulation and pretty pathetic.

[zenith-nadir]

Originally posted by COCT
The problem isn't that O'Reilly is an entertainer. Hell, I find him somewhat entertaining myself. It's a bigger problem than that. The problem is that much of his audience does fall under the "naive" category, and trust what O'Reilly says. I see no disclaimer on his program that says, "For Entertainment Purposes Only." He's promoted as being fair and balanced, and there are millions who believe that.The sole purpose of 98% of all news organizations is to make money not inform the public. Many people do not realize this. Dan Rather, an entertainer who can read like dear old dad off a teleprompter, Rush Limbaugh, an entertainer who's audience enjoys his firey brand of rhetoric, the talking heads at CNN, more teleprompter reading robots chosen for thier timeslot based on demographic appeal.

O'Reilly is no different, the fact that he chose to work at Fox News...well, 'nuff said about no spin zone...BBC, Reuters, UPI, AP, all media businesses. What's rule number one in any business? To make a profit not inform the public out of some higher calling.

[varwoche]

Originally posted by Ed
Which is why getting all upset over Bill or Sean or Al or Rush is the same as seriously hating a "bad guy" in wrestling or seriously disliking a sporting team. It is all manipulation and pretty pathetic.
True, except I'm not sure that people decide how to vote based on fake wrestling, which makes the disinfotainment even more pathetic.

[Abdul Alhazred]

Originally posted by varwoche
True, except I'm not sure that people decide how to vote based on fake wrestling, which makes the disinfotainment even more pathetic.

Thank you. Adding word to personal lexicon.

[Ed]

Originally posted by varwoche

True, except I'm not sure that people decide how to vote based on fake wrestling, which makes the disinfotainment even more pathetic.

(cough) Jesse Ventura (cough, wheeze)

[varwoche]

Originally posted by Ed

(cough) Jesse Ventura (cough, wheeze)
At least I anticipated that I was going to be a straight man! ;)

[Ed]

Originally posted by varwoche

At least I anticipated that I was going to be a straight man! ;)

(rim shot) We'll be here all week ladies and germs.

Next up: Jews: Yes or No, a fair and balanced discussion:D

[Cleon]

Originally posted by Ed

Next up: Jews: Yes or No, a fair and balanced discussion:D

I'm actually a big fan of Jews, being one myself. :)

[Skeptic]

"and violent video games gross billions more for corporations."

Yeah, that's the reason! I mean, remember all those violent video games Hitler used to play? And Stalin was really big on slash-and-gore movies, wasn't he? But the answer is, of course, forced prayer in schools.

[Agammamon]

As a died-in-the-wool secularist I can only respond to O'Reilly with a



DARN SKIPPY!

Right of Consent baby, right of consent all the way.


I hope I live to see the day when marriage as a secular institution is destroyed, extreme body modification is viable, and cats are living with dogs.

[Agammamon]

Originally posted by Skeptic
"and violent video games gross billions more for corporations."

Yeah, that's the reason! I mean, remember all those violent video games Hitler used to play? And Stalin was really big on slash-and-gore movies, wasn't he? But the answer is, of course, forced prayer in schools.

I heard Pol-Pot loved playing Myst.

[Abdul Alhazred]

Originally posted by Skeptic
Yeah, that's the reason! I mean, remember all those violent video games Hitler used to play?

Kriegspiel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kriegspiel)

OK, not a video game. :p

[Charlie Monoxide]

Originally posted by Ed


(rim shot) We'll be here all week ladies and germs.

Next up: Jews: Yes or No, a fair and balanced discussion:D
I too like jews. I try to drink at least 2 or 3 servings every day.

Charlie (orange jews, grape jews, and sometime apple jews) Monoxide

[zultr]

One thing that really annoys me about these kind of polls is the wording of the questions. What are they really trying to find out? They're asking for opinions on morality, not conducting any research into objectively measuring morality - I'm not even sure what morality means in the context of the question. So people are just guessing how moral they think the country is, something that has little to do with how moral the country is. Also, the media is ubiquitous today, reporting every mugging of every little old lady in the country to all the markets. Didn't reporting of murder increase something like 700% in a time when the murder rate dropped 30%? So something as remote from reality as people's opinions on morality can also be influenced by innaccurate reporting. The poll is useless. What does that say about O'Reilly's interpretation of it?

[Marc]

Like how he went from blaming the code of silence that let the crimes at Abu Grhaib happen, to talking about the decline of the Catholic Church being harming america.

Hmm... non-secular organization, that "used to set a moral tone that was taken seriously by society in general"... which engaged in exactly the same type of code of silence he was berrating just before.

[Skeptic]

Hmm... non-secular organization, that "used to set a moral tone that was taken seriously by society in general"...

...like, for instance, the inquisition, or the witch hunters, or...

[ceo_esq]

Originally posted by corplinx
Just about every Catholic Priest


and its the athiests who are are morally corrupting the US Just about every Catholic priest? What's that supposed to mean?

[daenku32]

More of O'Reilly rhetoric against ACLU etc..
Considering that he doesn't allow any level of rhetoric from left-leaning guests on his show, he certainly is not afraid to spew claims without chance for a rebuttal!!

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,121644,00.html

" Judge Hamilton and the ACLU are part of the anti-Christian cabal in America "

"Judeo-Christian philosophy requires judgments about right and wrong in personal behavior. The secularists deplore that. They want an open society where anything goes"

"fascist organizations like the ACLU are imposing their secular will"

[Ladewig]

"fascist organizations like the ACLU are imposing their secular will"
Except when they are defending the free speech of Christian students.
ACLU (http://www.aclu.org/StudentsRights/StudentsRights.cfm?ID=15680&c=159)
After ACLU Intervention on Behalf of Christian Valedictorian, Michigan High School Agrees to Stop Censoring Religious Yearbook Entries

May 11, 2004
DETROIT – The American Civil Liberties Union of Michigan today announced an out-of-court settlement between the Utica Community School District and a local student over the censorship of her 2001 yearbook entry.__The student’s entry had been deleted from the yearbook because it contained a passage from the Bible.
[more]




Pinhead.

[CapelDodger]

from Ladewig:
Religion has NOT been a civilizing force in this world. Do you remember the 1500's and 1600's when the Roman Catholic Church took over and people were imprisoned or executed for scientific thought?
There's no need to go back that far. Consider the combined impact of the dying (Catholic) Hapsburg Empire and the allied Vatican on South Italy. It's commonly accepted these days that South Italy and Sicily are backward, poverty-sticken and undeveloped, but that wasn't the case before the late 18thCE/early 19thCE depradations of the religious against progressive forces (when Revolutionary France wasn't impeding them). Look into the behaviour of the Vatican towards Jews after the French were beaten back and Papa returned to Rome (Unholy War by David I. Kertzer is a must-read to understand the Holocaust). Now we have fundies pushing creationism in the States, fundies pushing jihad and "Islamic Science" in Asia and fundies claiming their god's pre-eminence in Palestine. Fundies in India have been pushed back a little recently, but they seem to making advances in Japan. Fortunately, fundie Chinese are just Chinese. No wonder they're the superpower-in-waiting.

from zenith-nadir:
BBC, Reuters, UPI, AP, all media businesses. What's rule number one in any business? To make a profit not inform the public out of some higher calling.
Not the BBC. Aka PBS.

[skeptic griggsy]

Keith Olberman puts Billo into his place in loony tunes. Billo says we secular progressives do not judge: I judge him a serious contender for buffoon of the year.
I find him entertaining but find him a master of the straw man about us secular progressives.

[Puppycow]

The link in the OP doesn't work.

I think the premise is faulty: there is not a decline in morality. By what metric is morality measured? If it's crime, then there has been a decline in crime.

[articulett]

Keith Olberman puts Billo into his place in loony tunes. Billo says we secular progressives do not judge: I judge him a serious contender for buffoon of the year.
I find him entertaining but find him a master of the straw man about us secular progressives.

I enjoy Obermann's comments about Billo-- I love when billo gets all riled. I like Jon Stewart's comments too. http://www.milkandcookies.com/link/39580/detail/

Here is an excellent site for evil secular progressives like us who are ruining America: http://onegoodmove.org/1gm/

Ah... the link doesn't work to the article because this is a very old post. You are resurrecting posts from the dead, griggsy....

[thaiboxerken]

By what metric is morality measured?

In BO's world, it's a Christian metric. If you aren't following the rules of his particular Christian sect, you're immoral.

[Terry]

The link in the OP doesn't work.

It probably did three years ago...

[corplinx]

"Bill O'Reilly blames secularists for decline of morality in America"

Dude, this jackass says this like every night.

[Schneibster]

'Nuff said.

[thaiboxerken]

It's after Thanksgiving, time for the "War on Xmas" stuff again. I predict Bill will do his first story about the "War on Xmas" this Tuesday.

[fuelair]

On Wednesday night, Bill O'Reilly said secularists are to blame for the decline of America's morality. He based his rant on recent Gallup poll results. But he deliberately distorted the poll results to make his point. He'd have a hard time saying this one wasn't spin...

I've written an article about it at http://www.churchofcriticalthinking.com/archives/000072the_spin_stops_here_.html

COCT

Wow, I had assumed for years that rectum-talkers like O'Reilly were the ones responsible for that little problem!! Who knew!!:D:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::D

[Prometheus]

I too like jews. I try to drink at least 2 or 3 servings every day.

Charlie (orange jews, grape jews, and sometime apple jews) Monoxide

:rolleyes: Actually, a former roommate of mine who spent a couple of years teaching in Saudi Arabia told me that his local supermarket there redacted the word "juice" on all food labels in the store because of the similar pronunciation.... :jaw-dropp

[Dr Adequate]

It's after Thanksgiving, time for the "War on Xmas" stuff again. I predict Bill will do his first story about the "War on Xmas" this Tuesday. Yay! It's the happiest time of the year!

It's the time when my atheist family gather together to celebrate the birth of Jesus and wish everyone merry Christmas and decorate a Christmas tree and listen to passages from the Gospels --- and Bill O'frickin' Reilly whines about the "War on Christmas".

Well, Mr O'Reilly, let me say this to you.

HAPPY HOLIDAYS you f***** paranoid c***.

[skeptic griggsy]

Well, I did well in dredging up this old thread as there are so many fine comments thereto!
I really only want to make sure mine are still in force to futher their challenges. I am glad the administrator combined my old stuff under lamberthml with my new stuff!
Articulett, hello.You grace here and Skeptics Society!
Other good forums are IIBB, Center for Inquiry, Rational Responders, JREF and Theology Web Campus.

[Leif Roar]

Nevermind. Didn't realise I was responding to a years old post.

[marksman]

By what metric is morality measured?
I believe we measure morality in "peters". As in, "Bill O'Reilly has a micropeter of integrity and 10 kilopeters of hypocrisy."