CogresLab - Tenacious, but why ?

[The Don]

I had the occasion to talk to Mrs Don this weekend (we do still talk even after all these years). I ran her though the ebbing and flowing of the Bioelectromagnetics thread.

After marveling at the quality of my deductive reasoning (I may have, in my verbal account, "bigged up" my contribution) her first question was

"Why does he [CogresLab] bother ?"

Which got me thinking. Why does Cogreslab spend hours on this board, is he:

- Attempting to convert us with his skillful arguments (in which case can he not tell he's unlikely to
- Honing his arguments to deploy in a less critical forum
- Very, very lonely (clealy not the case because by his own admission he is feted by one and all)
- Deluded

I'm really interested in his persistance. Against this level (and quality) of opposition I'd have slunk off ages ago, or at least lost interest.

[Lothian]

I guess that he is not inundated with orders for his magnets and has some free time on his hands.

[Ed]

He has the tenacity of the True Believer. Fairly common trait, I think.

[Hellbound]

Human Psychology.

We all desire to be part of a group (well, 99% of us anyway). Humans are social animals. When one holds beliefs that place them in the fringe or on the outside of mainstream, it can play havoc with this. While one gets the "I know a secret" feeling and the "I'm working against the big evil empire" feelings as rewards, one does tend to be seperated or stigmatized from mainstream society...even though one is part of the "rebel" or "fringe" group.

Therefore, what does one do? One seeks to validate their fringe beliefs by convincing others of them. If someone else believes the same, it reinforces your belief and opens up your "circle of belonging", so to speak. If one is beginning to have doubts about deeply held beliefs, this validation is one of the first things sought. We ask others what they think, and try to get them to see it our way. You see the same in many areas:

Abuse cases: Abused spouses who make excuses as to why their spouse beats them but still loves them, and tries to actively prevent others from reporting it. More specifically, the belief many hold that their spouse will change, and how this belief is parroted to others for confimation.

New science: To provide a positive example, a new scientific theory that is controversial. The new scientist wonders if it is a correct theory or if he's goofed, so he shares it with others and runs tests himself to verify his findings.

Gambling: The mother of all validations. "I have a system, see" "I always win a little more than I spend, on the average." It's an irrational behavior, and gamblers seek to validate their actions by sharing beliefs with others...the blackjack player or slot player with a system is the perfect example.

Anyway, that's my take on it. We seek a group to validate our beliefs, and if the majority of society disagrees with us, it can affect us. While being the underdog can give certain psychological rewards (being elitist, secret knowledge, etc), it can also bring a lot of stress unless the majority of our time is spent without encountering thoise outside the group.

[The Don]

I like your perspective Huntsman. Can I infer that you're suggesting that CogresLab obtains a sense of belonging even though he's slapped down on a regular basis (extending the metaphor, is he a willing victom of spousal abuse ?) ?.

By responding to him are we helping, hindering or is it too difficult to tell ?

[Pragmatist]

I've already given my take on it in the other thread but here is a summary.

I think it's a combination of an ego trip and money. And the two are intimately connected.

Look at the known facts:

1. He claims to be a highly qualified expert in "bioelectromagnetics". He is quite happy to throw his alleged qualifications around and tell everyone just how big a lab he has, how respected he is etc. In reality of course we find he isn't so qualified after all.

2. He takes every opportunity for publicity. He appears at every remotely related conference or meeting, he turns up at talks for just about any society or organisation he can manage, he joins every campaign group he can find. The ordinary lay people think he is some great scientist because he keeps telling them he is.

3. He gives interviews for TV, radio and newspapers and is frequently quoted as an "expert" in the field.

4. He sets up frivolous court actions solely for publicity.

5. He is a politician. He's a candidate for the "Green Party". Unfortunately it appears he got the lowest votes of any candidate in the last couple of elections!

6. He is trying to wrangle his way on to Parliamentary commissions as an expert consultant.

7. He even appears as an "expert" in depleted Uranium for international pressure groups.

8. Other pressure groups have made up standard form letters for new campaigns quoting him as a "scientific expert" for campaigns against mobile phone masts etc. I wonder who encouraged that?

Now all the above clearly shows that the guy is a publicity hound. But at the same time it's a great money spinner as well. Firstly, I imagine he gets paid for some or all of these talks, lectures, interviews etc. Secondly he probably makes some money from his "consultancy work". We know that he was given a lot of money for the court action, and I've even seen web sites dedicated to raising funds for him to support that action.

In addition to all the above he actually gets British taxpayer's money as well:

9. He is funded by the Welsh Assembly to produce a dubious product called "Asphalia".

10. He received public grants to get a satellite internet connection to support his business ventures.

Then there is the matter of the "Coghill Challenge"

11. This has to be one of the worst publicity/scare tactics of all. It shows that he wants publicity at all costs, regardless of any ethical or moral consideration.

And then finally, he makes money out of selling bogus "protective products" and not only that, he charges to "certify" other woo woo devices "scientifically". All of that relies on his presumed status. Nobody would be interested in a "scientific certification" from some unknown "scientist". But if he is relatively famous then the endorsement is worth much more, and of course that can justify charging all the more for it.

Is he deluded as well? Probably, but probably not as much as one would think. You only need to look at his arguments to see that he constantly chops and changes and misrepresents things. If someone is truly deluded they probably won't see the bits that contradict their claims and therefore are less likely to cover them up. The effort he expends in doing so, indicates clearly that he knows his "science" is bogus and is simply trying to see what he can get away with. The thing he is clearly most deluded about is his own importance.

I just see a cynical attempt to scare the public into "following the leader". The money comes automatically from that.

The two motivations for most underhand behavior in this world are money and power/fame. And all too often they are aspects of one and the same thing.

[Hellbound]

Originally posted by The Don
I like your perspective Huntsman. Can I infer that you're suggesting that CogresLab obtains a sense of belonging even though he's slapped down on a regular basis (extending the metaphor, is he a willing victom of spousal abuse ?) ?.

By responding to him are we helping, hindering or is it too difficult to tell ?

What I mean is, while he has a sense of belonging within his own group, he most likely does not feel as if he belongs among the mainstream. This unbelonging stems directly from his unusual beliefs and theories. Thus, if he can get others to accept his theories, it is validation of his worth. In other words, if you can't belong to a group you want to (i.e.-respected scientists) you can convince yourself that you are right and that group is wrong.

Now, I'm mostly just rambling here, and have very little training in psychology, so take all this with a grain of salt :)

[Cleopatra]

I have wondered this myself and in fact I have posed the same question to congreslab. I think that his answer was that he is posting in order to illuminate us.

I believe that he intends to attach the thread to his site in order to claim that he beated skeptics. I wish I am wrong but I don't think that I am.

This is the reason I insisted so much on our being civil and keeping the thread on track.

[EHocking]

Originally posted by Cleopatra
I have wondered this myself and in fact I have posed the same question to congreslab. I think that his answer was that he is posting in order to illuminate us.

I believe that he intends to attach the thread to his site in order to claim that he beated skeptics. I wish I am wrong but I don't think that I am.

This is the reason I insisted so much on our being civil and keeping the thread on track.
While, in my opinion, this response from him does not necessarily reflect his overall purpose for participating on the Forum, here is at least one of his justifications from the Bioelectromagnetics thread:

"OK, so I don’t know a lot of physics. Nor biochemistry, nor microbiology, anatomy, physiology, radio engineering, physical chemistry, epidemiology, statistics, or the myriad specialities of modern science needed to conduct research in a multidisciplinary and largely uncharted region like bioelectromagnetics. But taking a lateral view, many like me have reached the sort of consensus expressed by the late Drs Cherry and Adey. Now, standing on the shoulders of these fallen giants, we need to hone these hypotheses and to make them watertight in order to change the present environmental situation for the better, a process to which you guys, despite your lack of charm and unjustifiable rough manners, are making a valuable contribution. Thanks."

[The Don]

Originally posted by EHocking
..........a process to which you guys, despite your lack of charm and unjustifiable rough manners, are making a valuable contribution. Thanks."
So what's the best course of action ?

- ignore him, giving him a "victory" but no more ammunition
- engage him in discussion with the results you suggested
- wait until he gets splatted by the arrival of Planet X

[Timble]

Originally posted by EHocking

Now, standing on the shoulders of these fallen giants, we need to hone these hypotheses and to make them watertight in order to change the present environmental situation for the better, a process to which you guys, despite your lack of charm and unjustifiable rough manners, are making a valuable contribution. Thanks."



If you stood on the shoulders of a fallen giant you wouldn't actually be that much further off the ground.

And since the quote which Mr C muddles here is originally attributed to Isaac Newton, I think we can guess how Mr C sees himself.

I think it's all an attempt to have the final word.

[EHocking]

Originally posted by The Don
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by EHocking
..........a process to which you guys, despite your lack of charm and unjustifiable rough manners, are making a valuable contribution. Thanks."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So what's the best course of action ?

- ignore him, giving him a "victory" but no more ammunition
- engage him in discussion with the results you suggested
- wait until he gets splatted by the arrival of Planet X
That was of course me quoting Mr.Coghill and are not my thoughts. I'm sure you didn't mean it that way - just the way I read it.

As for a course of action?

Well, we seem to be beating the dead horse of a true believer and one that is making profit from his talisman's.

The course of action in this thread is the correct one. Combat the pseudoscience he spews, and given the opportunity, refute any public claims he makes to further line his pocket.

I don't believe that his parting line there is sincere at all.