Natalia is back

[arcticpenguin]

Natalia Lulova is coming back for more testing of her blindfold reading technique. Does she have a new way of cheating worked out? What could it be?

You've gotta wonder what lawyer would be dumb enough to take her on as a client after her previous failure.

[kookbreaker]

Link?

Perhasp she's been letting Lucianarchy be her cheerleader.

[jimerson]

Originally posted by arcticpenguin
Natalia Lulova is coming back for more testing of her blindfold reading technique. Does she have a new way of cheating worked out? What could ti be?


It seems Natalia is not the only one peeking, eh AP? :D

[Ian Osborne]

Originally posted by kookbreaker
Link?

Perhasp she's been letting Lucianarchy be her cheerleader.

It's in today's commentry. If it isn't officially up yet, open last week's and edit the URL...

[Jim_MDP]

Yeah, that item cracked me up.

Can I be the one to tell her...

"No Honey, your mommy can't put the blindfold on."

Pleeeeeeeease. :D

[Goshawk]

http://www.randi.org/jr/031403.html
Yes, Natalia Lulova is back, a year after her failure in the preliminary test of her "eyeless vision" claim a year ago. Armed with a different lawyer, she's ready to once again be blindfolded and presented with reading material. And this is the first ever repeat applicant! We'll work out a new protocol, or use the old one, as she wishes. We have to wonder what new wrinkles the Russian schoolgirl has developed…. We'll keep you posted on this matter, and it comes along just when a major TV program has asked to cover a JREF million-dollar test event. Of course, that will only occur if Miss Lulova agrees to it. Last year's test, to save having to look them up.

Part 1.
http://www.randi.org/jr/021502.html

Part 2.
http://www.randi.org/jr/022202.html

[Rainbow Snake]

A few weeks back I went to see reknowned American mentalist/magician Marc Salem and he did a similar trick.

He had two volunteers from the audience examine some coins, then as directed each placed one on one of his closed eyelids, then they stuck strips of surgical tape across his eyes, some diagonally across a single eye, some across both eyes, and he even stuck some tape on his nose himself.
He then got the volunteers to examine a black blindfold and when satisfied to tie it around his head.

The volunteers then were sent into the audience where they collected personal items at random and brought them back to Marc where upon he was able to wave his hand above them, never touching and tell things about the object.

Do that one Natalia ! :cool:

Marc makes a big deal in his show saying that none of what he is doing is supernatural or using psychic powers. (Though as mentionned in previous posts his programme seemed a little dodgier)

- RS

[arcticpenguin]

An easy method would be to wear an earpiece, and have a confederate describe the objects to you.

[Goshawk]

Or to have the two volunteers be shills, and to have them "adjust" his tape while they're putting the blindfold on, and of course have them put the blindfold on correctly so he can peek.

[wert]

Originally posted by Rainbow Snake
A few weeks back I went to see reknowned American mentalist/magician Marc Salem and he did a similar trick.- RS The "blindfold test" is very popular and is in use today by many magicians.

There are many many different methods to acheive the effect.

I'm guessing the young lady used a different method on her new lawyer, fooled him badly, and now he is convinced of her ability to win the million.

Unfortunately for both of them, I doubt a method exists that Randi isn't already familiar with. And as such, Randi will be prepared and she will fail again.

[roger]

Instead of blindfolding the girl, why not just cover the page with cloth? After all, she is supposed to be able to see w/o using her eyes, right? Simple, impossible to cheat, and it will result in her abject failure.

[wert]

Originally posted by roger
Instead of blindfolding the girl, why not just cover the page with cloth? After all, she is supposed to be able to see w/o using her eyes, right? Simple, impossible to cheat, and it will result in her abject failure.

I think this just about covers it.

She could also detect colors under the same conditions, it was claimed. But — she could not exhibit this wonder if a piece of paper were to be inserted between her and the target, nor could any opaque material be placed over the target. That might have sounded strange to an average observer, but it was hardly strange to me; we were seeing yet another child who had learned how to confound the adults around her. It was the Old Blindfold Act.

Pretty sad if you ask me.

[arcticpenguin]

I'm not quite clear of the implications of what she is claiming. She claims to be able to read with her eyes covered.

But specifically, does that mean she can see from some body area other than her eyes? Or that she can allegedly read by touch with her fingertips (as some have claimed before), or is it some sort of psychic 'remote viewing'?

[Rainbow Snake]

Re: Marc Salem,

Wert, I don't think this is your standard run of the mill "blindfold trick" as he has already been apparently blinded by the coins and firmly pressed surgical tape.

I don't think plants in the audience or earpieces were *needed* at all - one of these cases of not needing to overcomplicate things. I personally suspect the crucial nature of him placing the last piece of surgical tape on himself - at an odd angle. But I could be wrong.

Or maybe he's using psychic powers.

This particular act was the deliberate highlight of the show.

When people have all day every day to practise, they can achieve some amazing things ;)

Now, back to my Corinda :cool:

- RS

[soccer_ref]

I would suspect that the tape actually performs the function of lifting the coins from the eyes. Any kind of tension across the bridge of the nose should do that, I think.

[wert]

Originally posted by Rainbow Snake
[B]Re: Marc Salem,

Wert, I don't think this is your standard run of the mill "blindfold trick" as he has already been apparently blinded by the coins and firmly pressed surgical tape.
Yes, I have (pretty much) that exact routine in a book sitting on my shelf.

Coins, surgical tape the whole works. Sometimes they even use putty or clay fit into the eye sockets over the coins. If you dig into history a magician named "Kuda Bux" made quite a living with this as his signature piece.

Trust me, it's all very standard these days.

I personally suspect the crucial nature of him placing the last piece of surgical tape on himself - at an odd angle. But I could be wrong.You're overthinking it. And being a magician myself, I'm not going to expose methods in detail.

[Kess]

Originally posted by wert
Coins, surgical tape the whole works. Sometimes they even use putty or clay fit into the eye sockets over the coins. If you dig into history a magician named "Kuda Bux" made quite a living with this as his signature piece.
Trust me, it's all very standard these days.
Some still seem to think that Kuda Bux was using "inexplicable" paranormal powers (e.g. see http://yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au/~jonno/story9.htm).

[Rainbow Snake]

Originally posted by wert
Yes, I have (pretty much) that exact routine in a book sitting on my shelf.


:-P
I thought by "standard blindfold trick" you just meant the kind of trick where all they have is a blindfold. Maybe this guy isn't the first one to do the coins/tape/whatever but I still wouldn't call it the "standard blindfold trick" - perhaps the "standard tape-and-coins-over-the-eyes trick" ! ;)


You're overthinking it. And being a magician myself, I'm not going to expose methods in detail.

Well of course you won't! :) Having seen the show twice now I still suspect that the final piece of tape while perhaps not *required* , had a *useful* effect, enhancing his abilities. It certainly was a very unusually placed piece of tape, and the act of putting it on I suspect shifted some stuff. The middle of the piece of tape went under his nose and the two ends were run up the sides in the direction of his forehead. When you're putting some tape on like this, your hands pass over your eyes.

just my 2c ! :)

- RS

[wert]

Originally posted by Rainbow Snake
[B]

:-P
I thought by "standard blindfold trick" you just meant the kind of trick where all they have is a blindfold. Maybe this guy isn't the first one to do the coins/tape/whatever but I still wouldn't call it the "standard blindfold trick" - perhaps the "standard tape-and-coins-over-the-eyes trick" ! ;)Oh definitely. The point is that the concept of "coins and tape over the eyes" is nearly as old and commonly used as the much less convincing "blindfold only" test. Magicians will sometimes use putty, hoods, or even steel plates to block their vision! Natalias version is quite weak compared to even the simplest magicians versions.

When you're putting some tape on like this, your hands pass over your eyes.

just my 2c ! :)

- RS Not a bad guess at all. I will say there are many different methods of acheiving the same effect. Some are quite simple whilst others are much more devious. :)

[synaesthesia]

Actually, for the record, Natalia is strangly unable to see through any barrier placed directly over the target....

[Zep]

Re: Blindfolded mentalist trick.

I suspect the method of covering or taping the eyes has nothing to do with it. I've seen the same trick done with good accuracy by a mentalist on the end of a telephone link between London and Sydney, completely removed from sight and proximity of the targets.

VERY impressive...until the method becomes clear! And I'm NOT a magician, so I can't be disowned by the brotherhood! :)

Q: Who obtains the objects to be "divined", and how does the mentalist know when they are there to be divined? A: Someone, an assistant, tells him. They pick up the object and say something like the innocent words, "Now this one?" or "What about this?" or "Here's one!"

Aaaah! "Code speech" - using the inflections of speech, code words, and word sequences, etc, to literally tell the mentalist what the object is and even what colour it is. The assistants aid further by deliberately selecting from a predefined set of objects - wallet, cigarette case, handbag, handkerchief, spectacles, etc, that the audience are likely to have on them in a theatre crowd. This greatly reduces the "vocabulary" of code words and colours required.

This is neat, because it works even if the mentalist is truly unsighted, requires no special electronics, and he doesn't have to even be anywhere near the object. Plus it requires some skill and practice on the part of the mentalist and the assistant(s).

I've seen this one done by a lesser exponent, and managed to pick it because the code talk was way too consistent by comparison with the objects being selected. A few too many gray wallets produced the same code words and inflections... Pity, it was a VERY good act until then!

Zep

[Rainbow Snake]

Audience plants? Nahh in this case I believe they were real audience volunteers, and they didn't say anything when they held the objects under his hand. I've used coded speech myself but since he could even tell what was written on a bottle I reckon he could see! ;)

- RS

[neutrino_cannon]

Natalia needs an enlarged pineal gland, ala tuatara. Just make sure that the tape doesn;t cover it eh?

[Lisa]

What disturbs me is that her family, lawyer, whatever other "handlers" she has are putting her up to this again. I don't know how many of these people believe in her abilities. But if even one of them knows she's doing the blindfold peek, this smacks of mental abuse. They're making sure she'll once again be humiliated. All over a magic trick?
Makes me wonder what the rest of her life is like.

[ShowMe]

Originally posted by Lisa
They're making sure she'll once again be humiliated. All over a magic trick?
Makes me wonder what the rest of her life is like.


Isn't this kind of a win/win scenario for the True Believers? If she is abel to do it (any odds on this?) then they win. If she can't, then they claim that Randi has humiliated a child, and will completely ignore the fact that all he did was test her.

I'm thinking one of those bondage masks that cover everything except the mouth would be perfect for testing, but I can just imagine the photo-ops *that* would give the woo-woos.

[susheel]

Actually, after the first test last year, the boards then resident woo-woo advocate Lucianarchy registered a protest against Randi’s methods. The general gist of his argument was that he made the poor little girl cry and he shouldn’t have been such a mean old man and he should have just given the poor little girl the million.

[william1165]

Boo-hoo. I'm crying now. Now give ME the million. I know several charities could well use it. (The local homless shelter, for one, is looking for a new property.)

It is simply very difficult to make an actual blindfold.

[hgc]

Rainbow Snake:

A few weeks back I went to see reknowned American mentalist/magician Marc Salem and he did a similar trick.

He had two volunteers from the audience examine some coins, then as directed each placed one on one of his closed eyelids, then they stuck strips of surgical tape across his eyes, some diagonally across a single eye, some across both eyes, and he even stuck some tape on his nose himself.
He then got the volunteers to examine a black blindfold and when satisfied to tie it around his head.

The volunteers then were sent into the audience where they collected personal items at random and brought them back to Marc where upon he was able to wave his hand above them, never touching and tell things about the object.

Do that one Natalia !

Marc makes a big deal in his show saying that none of what he is doing is supernatural or using psychic powers. (Though as mentionned in previous posts his programme seemed a little dodgier)
I saw Marc Salem's show in NYC. He did that trick just like you described. I sent up a book, and he got the name of the book. Very impressive.


btw I found Marc Salem to have an annoying personality. There are other tricksters with a more entertaining style I would rather see.

[Rainbow Snake]

Hmm I was okay with Marc Salem's on stage personality but when I tried talking to him afterwards when he was chatting to people, he didn't seem too nice. But perhaps that was part of the act, I dunno.

More about blindfolds ...
as part of a comedy festival in these parts I went to see a duo the other night who combine a few simple tricks with almost cartoon-like comedy in their shows. One trick they did was have one tie a blindfold over the eyes of the other who was then able to catch a thrown apple on a knife. The applause for this feat increased when the blindfolded person turned to the audience and we could all see two deliberately visible holes cut over his eyes. Kinda like a Zorro mask :D

- RS