Unidentified animal photographed in NC?

[JamesM]

Check out the photo in the story (http://www.news-record.com/news/local/rand/creature_060304.htm#)

About the size of a fox, but with short brown hair and a long cat-like tail, it looked more like an animal in a National Geographic spread out of Africa than any critter native to the woods of central North Carolina.

Anyone care to hazard a guess as to the animal's identity?

[Rob Lister]

Originally posted by JamesM
Check out the photo in the story (http://www.news-record.com/news/local/rand/creature_060304.htm#)



Anyone care to hazard a guess as to the animal's identity?

It really does look like a hairless fox, but a red fox instead of a grey one. Too big for a gray fox maybe. I can't guess what happened to it's fur. It also looks as if it is about to have a litter.

[Rob Lister]

Sarcoptic Mange is a disease caused by mites that burrow into the fox's flesh. The result is the fox loses its hair and eventually freezes to death. Not a pleasant way to die. Mange outbreaks are directly attributable to over population of fox.

http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com/foxfancy.htm

Also, a possible example from another source

http://www.floodlight-findings.com/2redfox/red_fox6.jpg

[CFLarsen]

The fur doesn't look damaged. The legs seem too long.

Could be a hybrid. Catch the sucker and find out! :)

[Dancing David]

Certainly not a grey fox, the legs are way too long.

The legs look all wrong on the animal, the front legs look wierd in proportion to the back legs.

My guess is that it is a red wolf/coyote/domestic dog mix of some sort.
Grey hound and red wolf/coyote?

[Correa Neto]

There's an animal that looks a bit like the photographed animal (assuming its not a photoshop work) that I'm quite familiar with.

Its the Crysocyon brachyurus lobo guara (manned wolf or bush dog in english). They are (relatively) common in some places I worked in (they can get used to human presence quite quickly - once I found one at the kitchen of our barracks). They not aggressive, are of nocturnal habits and do not form large packs. Packs are composed by a male and female plus 2 to three cubs. One couple got so used with humans that alowed their cubs to investigate us if we stood relatively still.

However, there are problems. The fur and the tail are quite diferent, and lobo guara habitat is mainly in central Brazil, at cerrado (bush-type vegetation).

[edited to add] If its an hybrid, I would guess a lobo guara was , but how a specimen went to North America? And no, I don't have the samllest idea if and with what other species it could mate.[end edit]

Here's some links-

http://www.canids.org/SPPACCTS/manedwlf.htm

(in portuguese, but with pics)
http://www.saudeanimal.com.br/extinto11.htm
http://www.ibitipoca.tur.br/geografia/fauna.php

There's another animal (that unfortunately I'm not familiar with) that has some resemblance, the fossa. But, besides being more different, this would be very unlikely....

http://www.nwf.org/internationalwildlife/2000/fossa.html
http://www.greenapple.com/~jorp/amzanim/fossa.htm

[UndercoverElephant]

That is not a red fox. It's ears are way too big - they look like the ears on an African wild dog.

I reckon its a hybrid between a red fox and a grey fox that ended up with a weird set of genes.

[UndercoverElephant]

Originally posted by Correa Neto
[B]There's an animal that looks a bit like the photographed animal (assuming its not a photoshop work) that I'm quite familiar with.

Its the Crysocyon brachyurus


That's spelled Chrysocyon brachyurus. And one look at a picture of it tells me you are right. The reason I thought it was not a red fox was that its ears were too big and its face was the wrong shape, but look at the ears on a Crysocyon brachyurus :

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/wildworld/images/profiles/terrestrial/nt/sm/nt0708aS.jpg

It's either a Chrysocyon or its a hybrid Chrysocyon

[flume]

Originally posted by Correa Neto
There's an animal that looks a bit like the photographed animal (assuming its not a photoshop work) that I'm quite familiar with.

Its the Crysocyon brachyurus lobo guara (manned wolf or bush dog in english).

I vote for Correa Neto's answer.

[Correa Neto]

I made a mistake. The bush dog (Speothos venaticus - do not confuse with the late Spot, LOL) and the lobo guara are not the same animal.

My bad sorry.

JustGeoff is correct. The correct spelling is Chrysocyon brachyurus . My bad No. 2.

Anyway, does anyone knows if they can breed with other species?

Another problem that I must point- Lobo Guaras are quite bigger than a fox. Actually they are taller than a regular wolf.

[JamesM]

The ears look right for a maned wolf, but what about the tail?

pic of maned wolf with tail in shot (http://www.growf.org/photos/aud-zoo-maned-wolf-2.jpg)
and another (http://www.wildlifeworld.com/images/maned-wolf-sniffing.jpg)

[CFLarsen]

Whatever it is, I don't think we should focus much on where it is usually found (and therefore unusually found where it was). It's far from impossible that a wombat turns up in Central Park.

First, nail down the species. Then, worry about how it got there. Let's look at the animal, not its natural habitat. It isn't something usually found 'round the parts anyway...

[Brian]

F**k everything. It's el chupacabra.

[materia3]

Take heart people, this photo has been discussed at the Canid-Listserv of the United Nationsl International Canid Specialist Group/International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN) and here's what they have come up with. I thought it might be a kit. (Vulpes macrotis) or a Swift Fox (Vulpes velox) which are believed to be varieties of the same species, maybe one a subspecies of the other. The kit is found as far East as western Texas but foxes move around a lot and it could be an escapee or hitchiker (cargo truck/train); CF Larsen is correct in saying this. I remember reading there was a prarie dog colony once found in Central Park and from time to time coyotes show up in a large park in the Bronx that did not escape from the zoo. Claudio was been kind enough to provide a copy of that brief discussion (so far) which concludes it is a probably a debilitated grey fox.



-----Original Message-----
From: Simon Gadbois
Sent: 05 June 2004 04:45
To: claudio (zoology.oxford)
Cc: Canids-L
Subject: Re: [Canids-L]: North Carolina unknown canid identification



At first, without a reference for size, I thought it was a bat eared
fox (escaped from some zoo...) with very short hair... then, I started to see the "facial" features of the grey fox (so I second Macdonald on this), Urocyon cinereoargenteus. I've seen, in the Eastern Townships in Québec, similar looking foxes
that (were clearly grey foxes) after losing their winter coat. I would add I suspect it is a pregnant female: Depending on the time frame (i.e., when this picture was taken), it may explain the almost feline shape.

---
Simon Gadbois, Ph.D.
Psychology/Neuroscience
Dalhousie University
Halifax, NS
Canada, B3H 4J1
902-494-8848
www.gadbois.org/academic
Ethology & behavioural endocrinology
Wolves, coyotes, foxes


On 4-Jun-04, at 7:21 PM, Claudio Sillero wrote:

From: David Macdonald (zoology.oxford)
Sent: 04 June 2004 17:50

I think its a fox (red, or perhaps grey) that lost its fur either
through nursing young and becoming debilitated or through sarcoptic mange, and is now re-growing its coat.

David Macdonald


> -----Original Message-----
> From: milo voo
> Sent: 03 June 2004 23:06
> To: canids-l@maillist.ox.ac.uk
> Subject: [Canids-L]: North Carolina unknown canid identification
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I recently came across this article,
>
> http://www.news-record.com/news/local/rand/creature_060304.htm
>
> and we have been discussing it at the metafilter site
>
> http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/33451
>
> I thought that perhaps someone on this list might have an opinion on
> what the creature in question might be. ( if it turns out to be a
> hoax, I sincerely apologize for wasting your time, but so far the
> reporter and
> witness seem credible enough )
>
> thanks,
>
> milo
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Canids-L is the mailing list of the IUCN/SSC Canid Specialist Group.
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: canids-l-unsubscribe@maillist.ox.ac.uk

[JamesM]

Can dogs and foxes interbreed? Some (admittedly extremely superficial) googling on the subject has brought up some contradictory statements.

[flume]

Originally posted by JamesM
Can dogs and foxes interbreed? Some (admittedly extremely superficial) googling on the subject has brought up some contradictory statements. Hard to imagine they could since the chromosome numbers are very different.

[materia3]

Yup.

According to Annie Gray, all species in the genus Canis have been known to hybridize in captivity. The genus Canis includes dogs, wolves, jackals, and coyotes. Their number of chromosomes being 78 in all known species which eliminates any chromosomal or physical barrier to interbreeding or any barrier that might exist in terms of chromosome segregation. There are other factors , however, that mitigate against interbreeding in the wild.

Foxes do not hybridize successfully/viably with dogs or other members of the genus Canis because of a significant sequence divergence. I believe they have only 34 chromosomes. So even if a fox was impregnated by a dog or a dog impregnated by a fox, the fetus(-es) would not survive. This is irrespective if in the wild, in captivity or even in-vitro.


Reference:

Gray, Annie P: 1972. Mammalian hybrids: a check-list with bibliography Commonwealth Agricultural Bureaux, Slough (U.K.) 1972.
(ISBN: 0851981704)

[Suezoled]

I saw that pic and thought "what a nice bit of photoshop that is."

I do think Simon Gadbois, Ph.D. has hit much closer. The legs of a shedding animal do look longer, in comparison to the grass it's relatively low to the ground, and it has swollen milk glands.

Or it could just be a hound from hell sent by its master to scout out the situation before the end of the world comes and you find out that the one true religion, after all, is Macarthyism.

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by Brian
F**k everything. It's el chupacabra.
Brian said it before I could :p

[BPSCG]

Originally posted by Suezoled
I saw that pic and thought "what a nice bit of photoshop that is."

I do think Simon Gadbois, Ph.D. has hit much closer. The legs of a shedding animal do look longer, in comparison to the grass it's relatively low to the ground, and it has swollen milk glands.Here's a similar shot of a kit fox. Much fluffier tail, though:
http://www.bowersphoto.com/images/16412.jpg

[materia3]

Originally posted by BPSCG
Here's a similar shot of a kit fox. Much fluffier tail, though:
http://www.bowersphoto.com/images/16412.jpg

Every fox species has a bushy tail when their fur coat is in perfect health. Foxes might not have a bushy tail if:

1. pregnant
2. recently delivered a litter and nursing
3. having just actively shed their winter coat
4. suffering from sarcoptic mange (I am no veterinarian but understand mange mites could even just be present on the tail?)

one or more or even all of the above....and

5. the tail fur is matted down from being wet:

a. wet from rain
b. wet from falling in a body of water
c. wet from placental afterbirth which would matte the fur

I like 5. c.


This is a good photo of a kit and looks very much like the animal in the photo in question which is why I thought it was a kit. In the questionnable photo the blackness at the tip of the tail can just barely be seen as well including what may be some fluffier fur at the tip which is almost off the page. The whole tail is not as fluffy as it normally would be. The teats are inflammed and swollen indicating pregnancy or post-partum nursing.

[mummymonkey]

Poor thing's lost her hair. Just use some computer wizardry to add some bulk to the little vixen and voila!

A pink fox!

http://www.ibrox.freeserve.co.uk/images/pinkfox.jpg

How come the so called experts didn't figure it out eh?

[Psiload]

Randolph County resident Bill Kurdian photographed this unidentified animal in his back yard May 20. Kurdian took the photo with a motion-sensing camera. He should attach a sound recorder to the camera. If he could capture a recording of something like, "Lamont, you big dummy!" that would confirm it... Red Fox.

[materia3]

Originally posted by Psiload
He should attach a sound recorder to the camera. If he could capture a recording of something like, "Lamont, you big dummy!" that would confirm it... Red Fox.

No, no. The dialogue would go something like this:

Voice: Okay, where to Michael Knight?

Michael: Take us home, Kit.

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by materia3
No, no. The dialogue would go something like this:

Voice: Okay, where to Michael Knight?

Michael: Take us home, Kit.

Hi, Steve.