Another success for homeopathy?

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

http://homeopathyforums.hpathy.com//forum_posts.asp?TID=1332&PN=1


After a month of successful homeopathic treatment of hypothyroidism the muppet practitioner says;

"Just to update you - I have prescribed Calc 200 on 28th March followed by Calc 1m on 20th April. I hope to see the patient again next week. In a phone call a couple of weeks ago she said that the latest tests show that she is becoming more hypothyroid and is now considering whether to take allopathic thyroxin. Her Goitre is still large but at least it is stable and not getting any bigger now"

One of the other posters manages to say the following;

"After reading this whole thread, let me allow to speak loudly that homeopaths are_themself proving that "Homeopathy has no rules...

Ricky suggested two remedies very CLOSED to patients "constitution" and gain nothing. Manish suggested remedy on "practice of medicine" and not on symptoms. You came and said there is miasmatic block and suggested thuja (without taking full case).



Conclusion: One patient, three different suggestions, three different ways of treatment, three different remedies having no base for the suggestion. Thuja on which ground no body knows why no med, sulph, syph or others when all these are also miasmatic medicines..."

Just as well it's in a closed forum that outsiders can't read. Oh, wait a minute.......oops.

[Zep]

We really need a Keystone Cops smilie for this lot! :)

[Prester John]

Funny the link doesn't work.

:o

[Corallinus]

All remedies are miasmatic with some being tri-miasmatic and others being predominantly Psoric, such as Sulphur or Syphilitic such as Aurum, or Sycotic such as Lachesis and Pulsatilla.

[geni]

Originally posted by Corallinus
All remedies are miasmatic with some being tri-miasmatic and others being predominantly Psoric, such as Sulphur or Syphilitic such as Aurum, or Sycotic such as Lachesis and Pulsatilla.

Since the number of miasms is not much above single figures why do you need so many remedies then?

[Prester John]

Originally posted by Corallinus
All remedies are miasmatic with some being tri-miasmatic and others being predominantly Psoric, such as Sulphur or Syphilitic such as Aurum, or Sycotic such as Lachesis and Pulsatilla.

At least Tolkein provides an Elvish - Common Speak dictionary.

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

Originally posted by Prester John


At least Tolkein provides an Elvish - Common Speak dictionary.

Tolkien's fantasy world also has the advantage of greater internal consistency than homeomuppetry.

If only they would come out and admit it works by magic they'd iron out a lot of their problems!

I think homeopathy is quite an interesting essay in the collision between the early scientific world view and medieval magic. Hahnemann is caught on the cusp: he thought he was being a rationalist, but actually operated from magical principles. The modern woos are desperate to be regarded as rational individuals working within a scientific system, whereas what they actually show is a superstitious attachment to a magical method. They have effectively frozen themselves into the mindset of the alchemists: the last 500 years has just passed them by.

Of course if the magic worked, it would be easy to prove it was real. Harry Potter's magic doesn't have the problems the homeopaths have of demonstrating efficacy. It's a shame HP is fictional. (Harry Potter and HomeoPathy conveniently sharing initials!)

[Corallinus]

If you knew anything at all about homeopathy then you would know what I am talking about and would not need a dictionary in the first place, which of course you don't. Sorry, I forgot that I was posting to such ignorant people.

There are three basic miasms, Psora, Sycosis and Syphilis, with Tubercular being a combination of Psora and Syphilis. Although remedies are all miasmatic, not every patient who is either Psoric or Sycotic or whatever will fit into a neat symptom picture of just one remedy. Not every patient who presents to you with predominantly Psoric symptoms will need Sulphur. Also, not every Syphilitic patient that presents to you will need remedies such as Aurum or Anacardium.

This is why when a case is taken it is important to look at the patient's past medical history and that of the family. You will then be able to assess the miamatic influences and see that although they may be predominatly Psoric at the time and will need a Psoric remedy, they may have both Sycotic and Tubercular influences in their background that may come to the fore at a later stage following the administration of their remedy. The remedy state may then change and you may need to give them a Sycotic remedy to deal with the next lot of symptoms that appears.

This is why there are a lot of remedies, because although there are only the three main miasms, there are lot of symptom pictures that constitute the case and the individuality of the patient that present with these miasmatic pictures and that is why more than a few remedies are needed.

[Deetee]

Just let some homeopathic woo-woo try to suggest I have a syphilitic miasm...!

[MRC_Hans]

Originally posted by Corallinus
If you knew anything at all about homeopathy *sniiiip* the individuality of the patient that present with these miasmatic pictures and that is why more than a few remedies are needed. Right. You actually have a point. From the paradigm of homepathy, there must be many remedies.

So, let's discuss that pardigm.

A basic assumption of homeopathy is that a disease overrides and replaces another disease. Homeopathy presumes this to be a universal principle.

Please explain the evidence for this and how it might be falsified.

Hans

[Ipecac]

Originally posted by Corallinus
There are three basic miasms, Psora, Sycosis and Syphilis, with Tubercular being a combination of Psora and Syphilis. Although remedies are all miasmatic, not every patient who is either Psoric or Sycotic or whatever will fit into a neat symptom picture of just one remedy. Not every patient who presents to you with predominantly Psoric symptoms will need Sulphur. Also, not every Syphilitic patient that presents to you will need remedies such as Aurum or Anacardium.

This is why when a case is taken it is important to look at the patient's past medical history and that of the family. You will then be able to assess the miamatic influences and see that although they may be predominatly Psoric at the time and will need a Psoric remedy, they may have both Sycotic and Tubercular influences in their background that may come to the fore at a later stage following the administration of their remedy. The remedy state may then change and you may need to give them a Sycotic remedy to deal with the next lot of symptoms that appears.

This is why there are a lot of remedies, because although there are only the three main miasms, there are lot of symptom pictures that constitute the case and the individuality of the patient that present with these miasmatic pictures and that is why more than a few remedies are needed.

Is it just me or is that complete nonsense?

[Suezoled]

Originally posted by Ipecac


Is it just me or is that complete nonsense?

one word: Syphilis.

[Chris Haynes]

Originally posted by Corallinus
...This is why there are a lot of remedies, because although there are only the three main miasms, there are lot of symptom pictures that constitute the case and the individuality of the patient that present with these miasmatic pictures and that is why more than a few remedies are needed.

Are these pictures as clear and concise as the Echocardiogram pictures showing my son's hypertrophic cardiomyopathy?

Surely you have a cure for that! I noticed you answered my question just like Kumar and Bowser... with complete homeopathic quality: with absolutely nothing of substance.

Isn't homeopathy supposed to work for lots and lots of things, including the above genetic heart disorder:
http://www.abchomeopathy.com/c.php/29

editted to clear up wordage

[geni]

Of course Corallinus has produced only one homeopathic postion. Some ignore the whole miasim thing entirly while others add extra ones. In many ways miasims are an attaempt to fit infectius desase in with the whole disturbance of the vital force thing.

I also notice that Corallinus has forgotten to include that case of miasams. Hahnemann said they were casued by supperessed itching. Most homeopaths seem to ignore this for some reason.

[Deetee]

Originally posted by geni

I also notice that Corallinus has forgotten to include that case of miasams. Hahnemann said they were casued by supperessed itching. Most homeopaths seem to ignore this for some reason.

I'm trying to suppress laughter, not itching

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

Originally posted by Corallinus
If you knew anything at all about homeopathy then you would know what I am talking about and would not need a dictionary in the first place, which of course you don't. Sorry, I forgot that I was posting to such ignorant people.

There are three basic miasms, Psora, Sycosis and Syphilis, with Tubercular being a combination of Psora and Syphilis. Although remedies are all miasmatic, not every patient who is either Psoric or Sycotic or whatever will fit into a neat symptom picture of just one remedy. Not every patient who presents to you with predominantly Psoric symptoms will need Sulphur. Also, not every Syphilitic patient that presents to you will need remedies such as Aurum or Anacardium.



NH,

The main problem with all that is that in the 200 years after Hahnemann fantasised this stuff we have found the causal organisms of syphilis and TB and don't really need his C18th version of the Four Humours.

Hubble bubble toil and trouble...


The bizarre thing is that you claim to have passed through a UK medical school and yet can still produce this stuff with an apparently straight face.

[Prester John]

Originally posted by Ipecac


Is it just me or is that complete nonsense?

Yes it is. Its also internally referencing. Is there any evidence for miasms ? No.

Treponema pallidum. How does this fit in with miasms Corallinus ?
Is it the causative organism of Syphillus ?


Bet you don't tell many patients they're syphilitic.

[Psiload]

Corallinus wrote:

This is why when a case is taken it is important to look at the patient's past medical history and that of the family. You will then be able to assess the miamatic influences and see that although they may be predominatly Psoric at the time and will need a Psoric remedy, they may have both Sycotic and Tubercular influences in their background that may come to the fore at a later stage following the administration of their remedy. The remedy state may then change and you may need to give them a Sycotic remedy to deal with the next lot of symptoms that appears.

Ah, so this is a scam:

http://www.helios.co.uk./cgi-bin/store.cgi?action=link&sku=AEKIT

...thought so. Homeopathic first aid *snort* :rolleyes: How ridiculous. I suspected this Helios company was nothing but a pack of scammers. Thanks for confirming it.

[Kumar]

Originally posted by Hydrogen Cyanide


Are these pictures as clear and concise as the Echocardiogram pictures showing my son's hypertrophic cardiomyopathy?
Sorry to understand. Are you satisfied?

[Corallinus]

Geni,

Suppressed itch is still Psora. It is known as and Hahnemann states this in the Organon as "an explosion of latent Psora".

Helios are not producing scams at all. I get all my remedies from them and they are the best homeopathic pharmacy that I know.

Hans,

In the face of an acute dis-ease a chronic will abate, that is correct. An acute does not always need treatment and will either result in full recovery or death. Once the acute has abated or been treated the chronic picture will then return.

There is nothing false about this at all and I have seen it happen in many patients.

[geni]

Originally posted by Corallinus
Geni,

Suppressed itch is still Psora. It is known as and Hahnemann states this in the Organon as "an explosion of latent Psora".[/b]

Pity that anyone with GCSE biology can see the problem with this.


Hans,

In the face of an acute dis-ease a chronic will abate, that is correct. An acute does not always need treatment and will either result in full recovery or death. Once the acute has abated or been treated the chronic picture will then return.

There is nothing false about this at all and I have seen it happen in many patients.

So no evidence produced under controled conditions. Still easy enough to test. Next time an isulin dependant diabetic gets an aucute illness we can take them off there medication right?

[Psiload]

Originally posted by Corallinus
...snip...

Helios are not producing scams at all. I get all my remedies from them and they are the best homeopathic pharmacy that I know.

...snip...
But you just said that it was necessary to obtain a person's complete medical history, including the medical histories of their family, in order to properly determine which homeopathic remedy to administer... didn't you?

Yet Helios is selling 'one size fits all' homeopathic first aid kits, but that's not the way homeopathy works, right? The remedy has to be tailored to the individual by a trained homeopath, right? You have to take into account the miamatic influences... sycotic, tubercular, and whatnot. You can't just whip out any old generic remedy and expect it to work, can you?

So Helios must be scamming with this kind of product:

"An essential first-aid remedy kit for the home, car and workplace specifically formulated to be used in even the most severe emergency and accident situations."

Right?

[Corallinus]

No, not at all. Acute disease treatment is totally different from the treatment of chronic disease. Chronic disease needs to be prescribed for by a qualified homeopath, most definitely yes.

The kits that Helios sell are for the treatment of acute conditions, but the remedy still needs to be matched to the symptoms. The treatment of acutes and chronics differ.

What is so different about Psora and biology. Why do they differ? Diabetics can be treated, most definitely yes for their acute problems. If they are given a good chronic remedy their blood sugars can stabilise significantly and their need for insulin can be reduced too.

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

Originally posted by Corallinus
If they are given a good chronic remedy their blood sugars can stabilise significantly and their need for insulin can be reduced too.

NH

Prove it, you big fibber! Given that there is no documented series of cases against a control set, this is yet another big fat homeopathic fib.

On the other hand, in your looking glass world, would Hahnemann really have regarded it as incurable?

[Kumar]

Every system can have both good & bad points as no system may be complete.

If we really want to ask questions, we may ask:

If homeopathy & allopathy are inferior, superior or at par to each other????

[garys_2k]

Originally posted by Kumar
Every system can have both good & bad points as no system may be complete.

If we really want to ask questions, we may ask:

If homeopathy & allopathy are inferior, superior or at par to each other????
OK, I'll bite.

homeopathy << "allopathy"

Perhaps, though, it has some efficacy in the treatment of dehydration.

[LostAngeles]

Originally posted by garys_2k

OK, I'll bite.

homeopathy << "allopathy"

Perhaps, though, it has some efficacy in the treatment of dehydration.

Nope. When someone is dehydrated, the best thing for them is Gatorade, followed by juices and sodas. Not only does the fluids need replacing, but the salts and sugars also.

If you're simply thirsty or need to get a nasty taste out of your mouth, homeopathy should help you there.;)

[MRC_Hans]

Originally posted by Corallinus
*snip*
Hans,

In the face of an acute dis-ease a chronic will abate, that is correct. An acute does not always need treatment and will either result in full recovery or death. Once the acute has abated or been treated the chronic picture will then return.

There is nothing false about this at all and I have seen it happen in many patients. That was not what I asked. To support homeopathy, this must be a universal function. What is your evidence (not your private stories) of this as a universal function, and how do you delimit it in order to make it falsifiable.

(is there any of this you do not understand?)

Hans

[MRC_Hans]

Originally posted by Kumar
Every system can have both good & bad points as no system may be complete.

If we really want to ask questions, we may ask:

If homeopathy & allopathy are inferior, superior or at par to each other???? Kumar, excuse me for being blunt, but... you are out of your league here, so go play in your own threads, OK?

Hans

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

Originally posted by Corallinus
There is nothing false about this at all and I have seen it happen in many patients.

Missed this earlier.

NH

Hand used the word "falsifiable". Your reply demonstrates a pretty clear and fatal misunderstanding.

Falsifiability is, roughly speaking, a good feature of a theory. Care to explain why?

[Chris Haynes]

Originally posted by Corallinus
No, not at all. Acute disease treatment is totally different from the treatment of chronic disease. Chronic disease needs to be prescribed for by a qualified homeopath, most definitely yes.....

So do you consider hypertrophic cardiomyopathy to be acute or chronic? So what would a "qualified" homeopath do for a case of hypertrophic cardiomyopathy?

(and no, Kumar, I am not satisfied, I asked Corallinus... since you have already shown your inability to even look up what the condition actually is!)

[Rolfe]

Originally posted by Corallinus
Diabetics can be treated, .... If they are given a good chronic remedy their blood sugars can stabilise significantly and their need for insulin can be reduced too. Another testable claim with precisely no (0) evidence to support it.

Of course there are those other homoeopaths who claim that all allopathic medicine is poison and causes more harm than it alleviates, and that homoeopathic remedies won't work at all on anyone who is taking (or sometimes has ever taken) any allopathic medication. It's all so internally consistent, don't you know? :nope:There are three basic miasms, Psora, Sycosis and Syphilis, with Tubercular being a combination of Psora and Syphilis. Although remedies are all miasmatic, not every patient who is either Psoric or Sycotic or whatever will fit into a neat symptom picture of just one remedy. Not every patient who presents to you with predominantly Psoric symptoms will need Sulphur. Also, not every Syphilitic patient that presents to you will need remedies such as Aurum or Anacardium.

This is why when a case is taken it is important to look at the patient's past medical history and that of the family. You will then be able to assess the miamatic influences and see that although they may be predominatly Psoric at the time and will need a Psoric remedy, they may have both Sycotic and Tubercular influences in their background that may come to the fore at a later stage following the administration of their remedy. The remedy state may then change and you may need to give them a Sycotic remedy to deal with the next lot of symptoms that appears.

This is why there are a lot of remedies, because although there are only the three main miasms, there are lot of symptom pictures that constitute the case and the individuality of the patient that present with these miasmatic pictures and that is why more than a few remedies are needed.No, Ipecac, it's not just you. This makes no sense at all. It's simply words strung together that they're taught to repeat by those noddy homoeopathic courses they pay ridiculous money to attend. The weird bit is that some of them, including Naturalhealth (a.k.a. Homeoskeptic, Corallinus), actually know some real physiology. They simply can't distinguish between what they have been told which is true (the physiology) and what they've been told which is simply words with no connection to reality (the miasms and all that fantastic nonsense).

The next post from Corallinus will begin "No, not at all" (without anything to indicate what she's referring to), will contain the word "Oh" spelled "O" at the beginning of half the sentences, will be phrased to sound authoritative, and will mean absolutely nothing.

The very idea that someone so ignorant and so opinionated is taking money from sick people for a scam like this makes me sick to my stomach.

Rolfe.

[Kumar]

HC,

You understood bit differantly. I meant that are you not satisfied with allopathic treatments for hypertrophic cardiomyopathy & wants otherwise?

" An acute does not always need treatment and will either result in full recovery or death"

How do you comment on this mentioning?

[Kumar]

Originally posted by MRC_Hans
Kumar, excuse me for being blunt, but... you are out of your league here, so go play in your own threads, OK?

Hans Why, do you now want to play here without me?:D

[Chris Haynes]

Originally posted by Kumar
HC,

You understood bit differantly. I meant that are you not satisfied with allopathic treatments for hypertrophic cardiomyopathy & wants otherwise?

" An acute does not always need treatment and will either result in full recovery or death"

How do you comment on this mentioning?

No.... I want you and your friends to realize that homoepathy is a worth as much as its "active" ingredients.

And what you put in quotes makes about as much sense as homeopathy... it is worthless.

The point is: if someone with a life-threatening condition that has subtle symptoms relied on homeopathy for help... they would be throwing their money away AND risking their own well being.

editted to finish a thought

[Rolfe]

Originally posted by Kumar
" An acute does not always need treatment and will either result in full recovery or death"

How do you comment on this mentioning? OK, I'll comment.

If all you have as medicine is content-free water/alcohol or lactose, this is sort of true. No matter what you do, the patient will either recover on their own, or die. The homoeopath has no influence on the outcome.

HC is trying to make the point that very often real medicine using real drugs can prevent the patient from dying - if it is given in time. If on the other hand you waste time trying the water/alcohol or sugar pills, then the patient may die for want of the real treatment.

What do you think of that, Kumar?

Yes, I'm pretty satisfied with the scientific treatment for hypertrophic cardiomyopathy and Addison's disease and many of the other causes of sudden death we've pointed out. There are many, many people (and animals) happily living normal lives thanks to these treatments, when without them they would certainly be dead.

Homoeopathy has nothing to compare to this, and not one single shred of evidence that it can save a life.

Rolfe.