Natural remedies danger

[Stumpy]

A very interesting article (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1166505,00.html) regarding natural rememdies appeared in The Times this week.

I must confess that I always regarded such rememdies as pure quackery although risk free. Not so, according to the article:Of the 10,000 deaths caused by adverse reactions to prescription drugs every year, a “significant number” were likely to have been caused by patients mixing their treatments with complementary medicines, doctors’ leaders said yesterday.

It's one thing debasing yourself and surrendering your dignity by putting your trust in this stuff, it's another thing entirely risking your life!

[Lucianarchy]

Originally posted by Stumpy
A very interesting article (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1166505,00.html) regarding natural rememdies appeared in The Times this week.

I must confess that I always regarded such rememdies as pure quackery although risk free. Not so, according to the article:

It's one thing debasing yourself and surrendering your dignity by putting your trust in this stuff, it's another thing entirely risking your life!

St John's wort always clearly state you should consult your GP if you are taking prescription drugs.

This is a ghoulish and disgraceful attempt to pass the buck to the herbal remedies, the vast majority of which, in comparison to the stuff peddled by the legal drug barrons, is risk free.

If people were allowed natural cannabis tincture for arthritic complaints, instead of the biggest killer of all, paracetamol ....

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Lucianarchy
This is a ghoulish and disgraceful attempt to pass the buck to the herbal remedies, the vast majority of which, in comparison to the stuff peddled by the legal drug barrons, is risk free.

If something is "risk free", then it has no effect whatsoever.

Originally posted by Lucianarchy
If people were allowed natural cannabis tincture for arthritic complaints, instead of the biggest killer of all, paracetamol ....

Yes, we know that you want legally to get stoned. Care to back up your claim that paracetamol is "the biggest killer of all"?

[Marian]

Originally posted by CFLarsen
Yes, we know that you want legally to get stoned.

Sorry to derail and nitpick...but I'm going to do both. There are people with severely painful illnesses that can 'legally get stoned' without marijuana. Morphine is more powerful after all.

I have an illness that is reportedly helped by marijuana. Unfortunately *all* the evidence is ancedotal (which I think you'll agree, as I do, that's not 'proof'). Unfortunately due to federal laws, there's no research on it. The only federal marijuana programs still out there, are closed down, with patients who were 'grandfathered' in who still get marijuana as medication.

Even states (such as CA where I live) which *have* medicinal laws, face problems with federal authorities, because THEY do not recognize the programs as legal. Doctors who've proscribed marijuana to patients have faced problems with federal authorities. (And actually federal issues are the reason I do not participate personally in state sanctioned medicinal marjuana programs...though my illness qualifies). I don't use marijuana simply because it could have a negative impact on other people legally. :\

Anyway, I know that your comment was addressed specifically to an individual, but it's a generic argument I've seen regarding legalization issues...and just tends to push a button with me, so I wanted to address it.

[Zep]

The danger in "natural remedies" lies not in that they may harm (or, conversely, not work when required), but in the fact that there are no adequate controls over them to ensure consistence and quality.

But then, if there was........they'd be real medicines, wouldn't they! :)

Incidentally, if I recall quickly off the top of my head, marijuana has only been illegal since about the 1920's or 1930's, and it came about not to do with medical dangers but to do with market competition between the hemp and other materials rope- and fabric-makers!. Cotton growers, I seem to recall.

I'll see if I can find a link...

[Prester John]

If people were allowed natural cannabis tincture for arthritic complaints, instead of the biggest killer of all, paracetamol ....

What a croc. The active compunds in canabis are drugs, just like paracetomol is a drug. Paracetomol, when used as presribed is a very safe drug, the biochemical degradation pathways produce safe metabolites, and unlike aspirin there is no risk for stomach ulcers. The problem with paracetomol comes with overdose, where the effects can be fatal. However you cannot blame the pharmaceutical companies anymore than you can blame bridge builders, bus/train drivers or rope makers for people who kill themselves by any number of methods.

[CFLarsen]

Marian,

You are, of course, correct. I was directing my comment at those - Lucianarchy included - who want to get high, period.

[Zep]

A very good link about the enacting of marijuana laws in the USA.

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/LIBRARY/studies/vlr/vlrtoc.htm

[Stitch]

Originally posted by Stumpy
I must confess that I always regarded such rememdies as pure quackery although risk free. Not so, according to the article:


Not sure why, but that link seems to kill Mozilla :rolleyes:

I don't profess to be an expert on such matters, but I personally would give more credance to the effectiveness of herbal remedies than I would to homeopathic ones. That isn't to say that I think herbal remedies are better than traditional medicine.

My argument for that, partly covered already, is that many plants do have active ingredients, Canabis and Poppies to name but 2.

At lot of pharmaceutical starting points have been plants that have been used in herbal remedies and have shown some degree of effect. Science has then taken those plants and identified the active ingredient and then either extracted, but more likely today synthised it as a pure drug and removed all the supurflous stuff around it.

[Bottle or the Gun]

Dangers of natural remedies:
I have a book of natural folk remedies in storage. One of the 'cures' explains the benefits and use of Sarsparilla and how it is good for the blood, cleansing properties, etc.

They don't mention that it is also one of the most powerful natural carcinogens known.

[geni]

Originally posted by CFLarsen
Yes, we know that you want legally to get stoned. Care to back up your claim that paracetamol is "the biggest killer of all"?


If there is any truth in the claim it probably has something to do with suicde methods.

[geni]

Originally posted by Marian


Sorry to derail and nitpick...but I'm going to do both. There are people with severely painful illnesses that can 'legally get stoned' without marijuana. Morphine is more powerful after all.

I have an illness that is reportedly helped by marijuana. Unfortunately *all* the evidence is ancedotal (which I think you'll agree, as I do, that's not 'proof'). Unfortunately due to federal laws, there's no research on it. The only federal marijuana programs still out there, are closed down, with patients who were 'grandfathered' in who still get marijuana as medication.

Even states (such as CA where I live) which *have* medicinal laws, face problems with federal authorities, because THEY do not recognize the programs as legal. Doctors who've proscribed marijuana to patients have faced problems with federal authorities. (And actually federal issues are the reason I do not participate personally in state sanctioned medicinal marjuana programs...though my illness qualifies). I don't use marijuana simply because it could have a negative impact on other people legally. :\

Anyway, I know that your comment was addressed specifically to an individual, but it's a generic argument I've seen regarding legalization issues...and just tends to push a button with me, so I wanted to address it.

Neither CFLarsen nor Lucianarchy are in the US. Have fun trying to understand uk law in it's current state

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Bottle or the Gun
Dangers of natural remedies:
I have a book of natural folk remedies in storage. One of the 'cures' explains the benefits and use of Sarsparilla and how it is good for the blood, cleansing properties, etc.

Hey, it's recommended heavily...by the Smurfs....

Originally posted by Bottle or the Gun
They don't mention that it is also one of the most powerful natural carcinogens known.

....what ever happened to the Smurfs? :D

[Bottle or the Gun]

Well, they were French...

Dennis 'The Menace' Mitchell also drank sarsaparilla. It was his beverage of choice. How many kids were influenced to drink it by reading his cartoons? Fortunately, like in most modern products, the taste is derived from 'natural flavorings' and not the actual plant. It doesn't stop companies from selling it in pill form though. Hopefully, it has homeopathic dilutions, so there is no danger.

Knowing that it isn't a very safe additive, companies that make those flavored products will actually have a label that says 'No SARS Added'. Maybe it's time to update that label.

[deBergerac]

Originally posted by Bottle or the Gun
Well, they were French...


Are you sure? I always thought they were Belgian, as Lucky Luke and Tintin.

[Peskanov]

Bottle,

I have a book of natural folk remedies in storage. One of the 'cures' explains the benefits and use of Sarsparilla and how it is good for the blood, cleansing properties, etc.

They don't mention that it is also one of the most powerful natural carcinogens known.

I am unable to find any reference for this info.
Maybe you are confusing sarsaparilla with sassafras?

[juninho]

Originally posted by Stitch

I don't profess to be an expert on such matters, but I personally would give more credance to the effectiveness of herbal remedies than I would to homeopathic ones. That isn't to say that I think herbal remedies are better than traditional medicine.

My argument for that, partly covered already, is that many plants do have active ingredients, Canabis and Poppies to name but 2.

At lot of pharmaceutical starting points have been plants that have been used in herbal remedies and have shown some degree of effect. Science has then taken those plants and identified the active ingredient and then either extracted, but more likely today synthised it as a pure drug and removed all the supurflous stuff around it.

There are many indications that some herbal medications do work. My problem with it is that many have no more effect than placebo. It's no wonder that many people who are, how can I put it, of a more conventional medical persuasion are put off the whole concept of alternative/complimentary medicine due to the white noise of the quackery.

As an aside, aspirin can be found in Willow bark which has been used as a pain-killer for thousands of years. Also there does seem to be a lot of research that St. Johns Wort can help with some conditions. I could go on but I can't be bothered;)

BTW: If you choke a smurf, what colour does it turn?

[Stitch]

Originally posted by juninho

BTW: If you choke a smurf, what colour does it turn?

OMG - don't even go there :D

[Lucianarchy]

The article in question, rasied by Stumpy, realtes mainly to 'St John's Wort'. The fact is that that 'St John's Wort' is labelled with advice about taking with other medicines and tells the consumer to consult with a physician.

Regarding paracetamol, it is the biggest killer because of overdose risks, yet that is available over the counter, with the same sort of warnings as 'St Johns Wort'.

This why the article is misleading.

Regarding cannabis, I believe that there is not one case of death through OD.

Cannabis is a natrual herbal remedy, which used to grow throughout Europe. Not only was its use prohibited, but also its growth. In comparison to most prescription pain killers and anit-spasmodics, it is completely safe.

[Bottle or the Gun]

Originally posted by Peskanov
Bottle,

I am unable to find any reference for this info.
Maybe you are confusing sarsaparilla with sassafras?
Darn, You are correct. Sassafras is the carcinogen, and Sarsaparilla is the one that casues stomach bleeding, pregnant women shouldn't use and has side effects when taken with other medicines such as Digitalis. I'm very embarrassed. Last time I trust a long-distance source, my book was in California. My fault though.

Also, I was glad to see Prince Charles was warned against promoting Alternative Medicine today.
Chuck Admonished By Way Smarter Commoners (http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000102&sid=aVWPDgd0YzTk&refer=uk)

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Bottle or the Gun
Well, they were French...

Peyo is Belgian. (http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Smurfs) :)

[Bottle or the Gun]

I give up. Everyone I asked about stuff yesterday was wrong. My sister is a Smurf maniac from way back, has all the little statues and books, still didn't get it right. Last time I ask an amateur expert, I'll look it up myself.

[BPSCG]

Originally posted by Marian
Even states (such as CA where I live) which *have* medicinal laws, face problems with federal authorities, because THEY do not recognize the programs as legal. Okay, here's my understanding. I'd be happy to be corrected wherever it may be inaccurate:

- The anti-nausea agent in marijuana is cannabinol (sp?).

- It can be isolated.

- It is readily available by prescription (in the US, anyway).

- The prescription doses are standardized, so you know the potency of what you're getting, as opposed to what you're getting from the guy who's growing marijuana under UV lamps in his basement.

- There are other anti-nausea drugs available that are more effective than cannabinol/marijuana.

How much of the above is not true, if any?

FWIW, I had seven months of chemotherapy back in the 1980's. Two separate four-drug regimens, each lasting two weeks.

One of those regimens included Prednisone, 4x/day for the two weeks. While I was on the Prednisone, I had no nausea from the other drugs. When I'd come off the Prednisone, I'd get sick. The Prednisone was NOT prescribed as an anti-nausea drug, but rather to fight the disease. But it was nice to be able to go to a chemo session and know that I wouldn't be praying to the porcelain god a couple of hours later.