For the ghost busters...

[Flaherty]

Here is a post that appeared in another forum I frequent. Having no experience in debunking camera ghosts, I thought I would let you chew on it.


Basically, my assistant walked out on her porch to take a picture of her daughter before she went to graduation practice. Her daughter was going alone and it was in the morning before school/practice. Her daughter, and trust me here, is not one that would have had any friends, boys I mean, spend the night. The only thing in the passenger's side is Cassy's (the daughter) graduation gown, which was a purple-ish blue. So, the picture comes back and there is Cassie, trying on her hat beside her car and in the passenger's seat is a damn man, sitting in the car, over where the gown should have been. His face is not very clear, but the front windshield was a little fogged. And, here's the thing, it appears he's in a white T-shirt and what looks to be underwear, or at least very short white bottoms. He looks well-fed, not huge but a small belly. Her mother never saw anybody. Hell, she would have a had a fit, and she was looking right down into the car. It is not a reflection, because the tassle hanging down from her rear view mirror, clearly overlays his shoulder. Now, I know this sucks without the picture, but I can only tell you right now.

http://mb4.theinsiders.com/ffloridastate19007frm29.showMessage?topicID=30112. topic

[ShowMe]

Originally posted by Flaherty
Here is a post that appeared in another forum I frequent. Having no experience in debunking camera ghosts, I thought I would let you chew on it.


Not much to chew on here, but this did hit me:


His face is not very clear, but the front windshield was a little fogged.




Check out http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/lenin.html for an excellent anecdote about the phenomonon of pareidolia.

Although I'm equally certain that, if you were to point this out the poster would swear that the picture is crystal clear & there is no mistaking the content......

[Jyera]

This hit me...

" And, here's the thing, it appears he's in a white T-shirt and what looks to be underwear, or at least very short white bottoms. He looks well-fed, not huge but a small belly. "

The above description seems to fit a baby.

Does the family have a baby?
Is the camera is the normal camera and not a digital camera.
Perhaps it is a simple matter of double exposure on the flim.

It is not surprising that a baby is on a uniform colored background while the first photo is being taken. The uniformed back ground helps makes the double exposure look "Cleaner".

A double exposure usually will leave some trace of the previous shot on the current shot. And could look like reflection.
If they shot the photo through the windshield, the glass reflection and fog on the glass all could help to confuse things.

- Jyera.

[Flaherty]

Originally posted by Jyera
This hit me...

" And, here's the thing, it appears he's in a white T-shirt and what looks to be underwear, or at least very short white bottoms. He looks well-fed, not huge but a small belly. "

The above description seems to fit a baby.

Does the family have a baby?
Is the camera is the normal camera and not a digital camera.
Perhaps it is a simple matter of double exposure on the flim.

It is not surprising that a baby is on a uniform colored background while the first photo is being taken. The uniformed back ground helps makes the double exposure look "Cleaner".

A double exposure usually will leave some trace of the previous shot on the current shot. And could look like reflection.
If they shot the photo through the windshield, the glass reflection and fog on the glass all could help to confuse things.

- Jyera.


The camera is a disposable. A double exposure is also my guess. The baby hypothesis is interesting.

[chrisberez]

Now, I know this sucks without the picture, but I can only tell you right now.

It does indeed. While the above suggestions are good ones, I don't know what good any of us can do until we're able to actually see the picture. We can get a mental image from the description, but I have no idea if I am picturing the pictue acurately. Let us know if the picture eventually get's posted. I, for one, would be curious to see it.

[Hand Bent Spoon]

The poster is absolutely certain a high school girl would never, ever have a boyfriend in her car? Riiiiiiigggghhhhttt.

Now there's a claim that'll take the million. :D

[Flaherty]

The original ghost story author has posted his pictures. Since there are 3 different pictures with similar effects, I doubt double exposure is the cause. Very interesting.

http://mb4.theinsiders.com/ffloridastate19007frm29.showMessage?topicID=30166. topic

http://theterritory.servebeer.com/images/ghost1.jpg

http://theterritory.servebeer.com/images/ghost2.jpg

http://theterritory.servebeer.com/images/ghost5.jpg

[Luceiia]

The first and third appear to be the exact same photo, with the third being enlarged.

The white in the passenger seat appears to be a white t-shirt pulled over the seat back and hanging/laying slightly askew.

The reflected coloration on the dash just to the left of the steering wheel appears to be the exact same color as what might be interpreted by some as 'flesh color' in the passenger seat area (the arms/legs). This same color is not seen by me in the head/neck area of the passenger seat, which seems to be simply a flatish headrest since I find zero indication of any facial characteristics such as chin, nose, lips, cheekbone sticking out.

Now I wonder why the front glass is so foggy. That's certainly odd given the extreme clarity of the girl and the clarity of vision through the driver's window at the pavement beyond...

Heh, ok...I almost fell for it! Then I took a close look at the bottom of her skirt, right side, through the window...the corner that is NOT there.

Doctored photos is my take.


Luceiia

[SquishyDave]

That corner of the skirt thing does look a little odd, but why would they doctor in that delightfully attractive young lady?

I can't understand why you would doctor her in if you are trying to make a fake ghost photo. Little help?

[Blondin]

It might be interesting to see the graduation gown. Was it folded on the passenger seat or draped over the back of the seat?

[Flaherty]

The storyteller says the window is covered in morning dew, which seems about right. I think the corner of the skirt is simply obscured by the car door's edge.

[whim]

I think the figure is a reflection of something in or near the house. (Dad?) It looks like the car has bucket seats and the figure does not seem to be 'seated' quite right. The seat and the gown (which I assume is the same dark blue as the cap) are both dark and in shadow, making the frosted window more reflective. The dash on the other hand is reflecting a bit of light, helping to 'crop' the reflected image correctly. Also, it seems in the close up that the very top of the figure's left shoulder may be 'peaking through' the rear view mirror.

[Luceiia]

Originally posted by Flaherty
The storyteller says the window is covered in morning dew, which seems about right. I think the corner of the skirt is simply obscured by the car door's edge.

I'll call foul on this too.

I park outdoors and every morning that my car has condensation on the windows it occurs on all windows in very similar amounts. After the sun comes up the window(s) facing the sun (east) will clear up first.

In the photo, the window away from the sun is completely clear of condensation while the windshield (which has a slight bit of sun striking it as seen on the far left of the photo) remains completely 'covered in morning dew'.

SquishyDave:
I don't know why many woos do what they do, but the photos appear doctored and the story isn't holding up any better from my perspective. Perhaps he was playing with Photoshop, created an interesting montage, and then decided to pass the resulting image off as a ghost story.


Luceiia

[steenkh]

Why doctor the picture at all? The easiest trick would be to have a real person sitting in the seat! We have only the word of the ghost story author that there was nobody in the car.

[voidx]

Ok lets stick to the points given to us in the story. The lady came out to take a picture of her daughter before she left for her practice. At this time the dress is in the car, the daughter is by the car, the door is open and she appears ready to leave. Now, lets concentrate on the fogged window. I notice that behind the girl is a 2 car garage. The door is open, and it appears, although its hard to tell by the angle, that there is only 1 car in said 2 car garage. Why is the door open on both sides? If the other side is open, why was the car not parked inside the garage? Was it in fact parked outside all night? Do they have a tendency to leave the garage door open all night long?

The reason I wonder is because if the car was in the garage there would not be much in the way of morning dew or fog on the window. Even if there was, that meant that she drove it out of the garage and towards the house (why, who knows) without using the wipers or defrost to clear the window before starting to drive. I also wondered why only the front window appears foggy, and the drives side window is completely clear, that also doesn't jive with my own experiences with morning dew.

Also when was the gown placed in the car? I have some trouble believing a girl would leave her graduation dress thrown in the car over-night. So, did she put the dress in that morning? Was it left in the car over-night? Was the car in fact parked outside overnight? Had the car been moved so far that morning, or was that exactly where it had been all night long?

Basically we don't know enough and as Steen mentions the simpliest answer is that there is a person actually sitting there. Did she have a date for graduation? Or a friend she was giving a ride that morning? Why go out of their way to point out she isn't the type of girl to have boys sleep over? What is the point of that statement? Are we to actually believe a boy that had snuck in for some action would actually be so incredibly stupid as to sit in the car in front of the house, and then too also continue sitting there while the mother comes out and takes a picture? Give me a break, sounds like the story is trying to setup some things ahead of time if you ask me, but they don't make any sense.

[VicDaring]

It's the dress.

Remember those pictures used to be popular, where you had to kind of unfocus your eyes and an image would appear? Do that with this. Once you see the dress, it's difficult to unsee it.

I guess the lighting, angle, color of the dress, the way the dress is on the seat, etc. all conspire to play a little visual trick on us.

This actually might be worth keeping to show how easily "ghosts" can pop up in photos.

[mjv]

Looks like just a shirt that has been fitted over a car seat to cover up a tear in the upholstry. I knew lots of people who did that during school when they couldn't afford cosmetic repairs. Its a little askew, so maybe she recently had a passenger.

The "flesh" tones look to me to be reflections off of the windshield. The more visible reflection to the left is roughly the same color.

It is pretty weird though; I can see how someone could convince themselves this is evidence of a ghost.

[ShowMe]

Ah...we finally get the picture.

Not a reflection, at least not the white part. The tassle shows that.

As for the skirt, check it out on her right leg. It's a tight fitting skirt, not a flowing style. So it would be obscured by the door.

I'm willing to bet that their graduation gowns were white, and that this is the graduation gown tossed over the passenger seat.

The right arm and right leg of the "man" in the car looks to be the reflection of a window frame; if you look at the "leg" you can see the window sill sticking out.

No doctoring, I don't think. Just an interesting angle, some cool reflections and an interesting camera angle.

Add the human minds ability to see shapes and a bit of fogginess and you have a really cool ghost story.

[Blondin]

The flesh-coloured parts being part of a reflection or lighting artifact seem plausible because there is flesh-coloured patch on the dashboard over towards the driver's side and another, larger one down the right-hand side of the windscreen. Almost looks like the dapple effect of light coming through trees.

[ShowMe]

I just re-read the original post; the gown is a light purple.

I wonder if the gown was in a plastic bag, and we see the sun reflecting off of it?

[garys_2k]

Does the very end of the tassle seem to lie under the flesh colored part?