Christian stupid beliefs leads to boy's death.

[thaiboxerken]

http://www.courttv.com/trials/exorcist/070804_ctv.html

The brother of a minister on trial for suffocating an autistic child during an exorcism told jurors Thursday morning that it was God who "took" the child, not the defendant's violent ritual.



You christians should grow up, then maybe this kind of senseless killing won't happen.

[LostAngeles]

Those Christians. I have many family members who are Christians and aren't that ..., yeah ok. I do want to use "freaking lacking in basic mental abilities".

That aside, God's crime spree continues.

[Riddick]

This is where I post about the atheist/mensa dude who poisoned his neighbor, thusly killing her. He sits on death row, in Florida I believe.

So we have a little Tit-for-Tat going and atheists maintain how they're more self-rightous than anybody on the face of the planet.

atheists: It's all about you. ;)

[UserGoogol]

Riddick, you have the intelligence of a bag of spinach. They're completely different situations. The first death was directly caused by a religious ritual. Your death has absolutely nothing to do with atheism, except that the murderer was atheist.

[Doctor X]

False analogy.

The atheist/mensa guy did not kill someone because no deity told him so.

Try again.

UserGoogol:

Kindly do not insult spinach.

--J.D.

[Navigator]

You christians should grow up, then maybe this kind of senseless killing won't happen.

I am not a Christian myself, but I do know that, like any other group of individuals, there are lots of differing types, all basically calling themselves "Christians".

I am also aware that intelligent individuals understand that fact.

I don;t think Christians are more 'guilty' than any other particualr branch of social groupings.

I am saying that, for example, I would not say "You Americans should 'grow up' so that the war kind of senseless killings wont happen."

There is little point in categorising in this manner. What kind of 'sensless killing' is sensible, and are Cristians, or indeed, religious people in general, the only ones perpetrating the senseless killings?

What Human discipline created devices which are used for the purpose of senseless killing?


What is being signified in the statement 'should grow up' thaiboxerken ?

Example is far the better alternative to mere criticsim.

Alternatives which necessitate personal individual inreaching...adjustments for the sake of Unity and Wholeness...what are you doing within your own personality, and within your own nieghbourhood to show an example of one 'grown up'?

This is the question, and is not souly directed to you...it is one which is saying "Yes I agree - we all 'should grow up' but in real terms for individuals to express this as a truism, the only real power I (and you and each of us) have in making 'should' a reality, is in changing ourself.

Otherwise we can not make truth any claim to being unlike that which we otherwise criticise.

[Radrook]

The Lord God disagrees with you:

Psalm 53:1
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

[RabbiSatan]

Originally posted by Riddick
This is where I post about the atheist/mensa dude who poisoned his neighbor, thusly killing her. He sits on death row, in Florida I believe.

So we have a little Tit-for-Tat going and atheists maintain how they're more self-rightous than anybody on the face of the planet.

atheists: It's all about you. ;)

Oh no! An Atheist commited a crime! Where is the proof that the person's atheism was the cause of his crime? Is there a quote saying, "I am going to kill my neighbour because she is a religious person and I am an atheist"?.



Originally posted by Riddick
The Lord God disagrees with you

Oh dear - a ficticious God disagrees with me :rolleyes:

The US prison statistics disagree with you.

[Radrook]

Originally posted by RabbiSatan


Oh no! An Atheist commited a crime! Where is the proof that the person's atheism was the cause of his crime? Is there a quote saying, "I am going to kill my neighbour because she is a religious person and I am an atheist"?.





Oh dear - a ficticious God disagrees with me :rolleyes:

The US prison statistics disagree with you.

If he is fictitious then why all the attention from you Satanists?

[RabbiSatan]

Originally posted by Radrook


If he is fictitious then why all the attention from you Satanists?

Strawman - I love it how since you have no valid points you attack me and call me a satanist because my internet pseudonym is "RabbiSatan" - Yes - lets not ask that mabye the name was meant to be an ironic depiction of my religious contempt - I obviously must be a satanist.

[Radrook]

Originally posted by RabbiSatan


Strawman - I love it how since you have no valid points you attack me and call me a satanist because my internet pseudonym is "RabbiSatan" - Yes - lets not ask that mabye the name was meant to be an ironic depiction of my religious contempt - I obviously must be a satanist.

I was not attacking you by identifying you with the thing you chose to be identified with. If I identify myself with trash and I am referred to as trash--why would I consider being called trash an attack?

[RabbiSatan]

Originally posted by Radrook


I was not attacking you by identifying you with the thing you chose to be identified with. If I identify myself with trash and I am referred to as trash--why would I consider being called trash an attack?

Wow - you and Iacchus have a knack for proving my points for me.

I was not attacking you by identifying you with the thing you chose to be identified with.

Yet here you are, doing it, hyppocrite.

If I identify myself with trash and I am referred to as trash--why would I consider being called trash an attack?

But I am not identifying myself as or with satanists - that's something you made up on the spot.

[Radrook]

Originally posted by RabbiSatan
But I am not identifying myself as or with satanists - that's something you made up on the spot.



You choose an avatar calling yourself Rabi Satan. You even place the horns on your avatar's head. You then proceed to attack Christianity which we all know Satan is perceived as being an enemy off. Then demand that you should not be identified with Satan.

Isn't that a bit irrational?


Atheists
http://www.carm.org/atheism.htm


BTW
Name-calling doesn't do anything to advance your point of view.
How was I supposed to know that a person who identifies himself with Satan would take umbrage at being identified with Satan? This is something straight out of the cookoos nest.

[RabbiSatan]

Originally posted by Radrook
You choose an avatar calling yourself Rabi Satan. You even place the horns on your avatar's head. You then proceed to attack Christianity which we all know Satan is perceiuved as being an enemy off. Then demand that you should not be identified with Satan.

Isn't that a bit irrational?

Let me quote something I've said in the posts above:

Yes - lets not ask that mabye the name was meant to be an ironic depiction of my religious contempt

If you didn't pick up what I meant - it means that I am poking fun at religion and making a satire out of it in General. Since you are misconstruding that I am a satanist, I am correcting your misconception.

To be frank - the pseudonym was a deviation of someone called "Rabbi Seitan" on the PlanetQuake / Polycount several years ago - and as for the image - The original one was complimentary to go with my name from some person a lumthemad.net a long time ago as well - but since I lost that one and could never re-find the source Image, I made this new one.

[Radrook]

Originally posted by RabbiSatan


Let me quote something I've said in the posts above:



If you didn't pick up what I meant - it means that I am poking fun at religion and making a satire out of it in General. Since you are misconstruding that I am a satanist, I am correcting your misconception.

To be frank - the pseudonym was a deviation of someone called "Rabbi Seitan" on the PlanetQuake / Polycount several years ago - and as for the image - The original one was complimentary to go with my name from some person a lumthemad.net a long time ago as well - but since I lost that one and could never re-find the source Image, I made this new one.


I picked up on it once you pointed it out.
I guess I misunderstood.
Sorry.

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by thaiboxerken

The brother of a minister on trial for suffocating an autistic child during an exorcism told jurors Thursday morning that it was God who "took" the child, not the defendant's violent ritual.Yes, in a round about way that's correct. ;)


You christians should grow up, then maybe this kind of senseless killing won't happen. Life's a bitch and then you die. Got anything else to add?

[Blue Monk]

Too bad that boy’s parents weren’t atheist. If they were that kid would probably be alive today.

Despite one’s personal beliefs I am sure the vast majority of Christians would agree that this exorcism to cure autism is superstitious bull.

And on top of that the arrogant sobs don’t even have the decency to admit that maybe, just maybe, they were wrong.

This story is appalling.

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by RabbiSatan

Wow - you and Iacchus have a knack for proving my points for me.You don't get it do you? Maybe Radrook and I aren't any less scientific in our approach than you are? :)

[RabbiSatan]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Yes, in a round about way that's correct. ;)

No - the child died due to the parent's incapability to deal with their child's autism and due to the guy suffocating him.

Life's a bitch and then you die. Got anything else to add?

While I quite agree - I have to add just because life is bleak and nihilistic as such, that doesn't mean we should give up and die - Before I go, I plan to at the very least, try to make the world a much better place when I leave it than I arived in.



On a side note - is CourtTV supposed to be real? I don't live in America, I don't know what the television is like, I've heard that Judge Judy, etc, are just "show" trials - is CourtTV the same?

[RabbiSatan]

Originally posted by Iacchus
You don't get it do you? Maybe Radrook and I aren't any less scientific in our approach than you are? :)

Stick to the topic and leave out posts pertaining to other threads in other threads - And in anycase - what point are you trying to make?

Edit: Meh, nevermind, I'm starting to confuse threads - my apologies, I'll need to stop soon and get some sleep.

[Radrook]

Originally posted by Blue Monk
Too bad that boy’s parents weren’t atheist. If they were that kid would probably be alive today.

Despite one’s personal beliefs I am sure the vast majority of Christians would agree that this exorcism to cure autism is superstitious bull.

And on top of that the arrogant sobs don’t even have the decency to admit that maybe, just maybe, they were wrong.

This story is appalling.


It is not a Christian belief that one must suffocate a child to death nor assume he is demonized without first taking him to a physician to find out if indeed the symptoms might not be due to some illness.

In fact, we are admonished to make sure of all things.

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by RabbiSatan

No - the child died due to the parent's incapability to deal with their child's autism and due to the guy suffocating him.I agree. However, like I say, in a round about way the responsibility is God's.


While I quite agree - I have to add just because life is bleak and nihilistic as such, that doesn't mean we should give up and die - Before I go, I plan to at the very least, try to make the world a much better place when I leave it than I arived in.More wishful thinking? Just kidding! Albeit it does sound like you're an idealist. ;)


On a side note - is CourtTV supposed to be real? I don't live in America, I don't know what the television is like, I've heard that Judge Judy, etc, are just "show" trials - is CourtTV the same? Yes, as much as they run it like a three ring circus, the judgments are final.

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by RabbiSatan

Edit: Meh, nevermind, I'm starting to confuse threads - my apologies, I'll need to stop soon and get some sleep. What are talking about it's almost time for me to go to bed! ... That is if I were on a normal schedule. ;)

[RabbiSatan]

Originally posted by Iacchus
I agree. However, like I say, in a round about way the responsibility is God's.

I see now that you were trying to be ironic - my apologies.

More wishful thinking? Just kidding! Albeit it does sound like you're an idealist. ;)

Wishful thinking has nothing to do with it - it's a goal that I try to work towards to, which may or may not acheive fruitition.

Yes, as much as they run it like a three ring circus, the judgments are final.

Thank you - I was wondering whether or not the shows are purely scripted like various other reality tv type shows.

[Z]

Radrook, you said, "If he is fictitious then why all the attention from you Satanists?" and then turn around and say "Name-calling doesn't do anything to advance your point of view."

Pot? Hi, this is Kettle. Wuzzup, hom-EEEE?

(I'd use the N-word, except it's so horribly offensive that I can't even stand to hear them say it to each other...)

Anyway... I wonder, do you even know what a Satanist is? It's often the view of Fundie Christians and some wacko sects of X-ianity that anyone not of their faith is a Satanist.

Ironically, in order to be a Satanist, you have to be of the same faith as Judeo-Christian-Muslim faith. Why, you ask, is this so?

Because Satan is a creation of this faith. No one outside of these three believes in Satan.

And before you mention the Church of Satan, please keep in mind that this Church is a variation of Judaism/Christianity, inasmuchas they agree with much of the Bible, but make some even wilder claims about the nature of God and Satan than even you X-ians do.

As a Pagan, I'm often called a Satanist - but that's ridiculous, in that I don't believe in Satan any more than I believe in Adam and Eve or Revelations. I make no prayers to some God of Evil, do no works in Evil's name. Yes, I speak against the Bible, but only because it's a thoroughly debunked work of fantasy that has caused more harm than good throughout history. <-- Please note, my own opinion, not necessarily fact.

Anyway, don't go slinging names then get offended when some gets on you too.

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by RabbiSatan

Thank you - I was wondering whether or not the shows are purely scripted like various other reality tv type shows. Oh, actually I thought you were talking about "Judge Judy." No, I don't know what the deal is with CourtTV. I've only seen that once or twice and that was quite a while back. Sorry.

[Blue Monk]

Originally posted by Radrook



It is not a Christian belief that one must suffocate a child to death nor assume he is demonized without first taking him to a physician to find out if indeed the symptoms might not be due to some illness.

In fact, we are admonished to make sure of all things.

True and this kid had autism not demons. Superstitious BS just like I said.

And the exorcist killed him in an superstitious act that could not improve the child's condition under any circumstances.

The exorcist killed him not God that's for sure.

Superstitious Bull, any way you want to slice it.

[thaiboxerken]

This is where I post about the atheist/mensa dude who poisoned his neighbor, thusly killing her. He sits on death row, in Florida I believe.

You are a moron. Atheism is not a belief system that perpetuate dangerous beliefs that lead to death. Atheism is simply a lack of belief in gods and deities.

Christianity, however, praises people for suppressing their reasoning abilities and critical thinking by having "faith". It's this faith that leads to killings like this.

[thaiboxerken]

CourtTV is a cable station dedicated to covering real trials and cases. They have shows of past trials and they often televise real trials in progress. Lawyer correspondents make their own comments and discuss the issues related to the case as well as the law. Think if it as a news channel that only covers law issues.

[RabbiSatan]

Originally posted by thaiboxerken
CourtTV is a cable station dedicated to covering real trials and cases. They have shows of past trials and they often televise real trials in progress. Lawyer correspondents make their own comments and discuss the issues related to the case as well as the law. Think if it as a news channel that only covers law issues.

Ah - thank you very much tbk, that clears up the issue - I thought it was more akin and scripted like Judge Judy.

[Blue Monk]

Originally posted by thaiboxerken
Christianity, however, praises people for suppressing their reasoning abilities and critical thinking by having "faith". It's this faith that leads to killings like this.

Well said and this senseless death is exhibit A.

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by RabbiSatan

I see now that you were trying to be ironic - my apologies.Hey, do you like sweet and sour pork? In which case on the one hand I was being ironic, and on the other hand, no.


Ah - thank you very much tbk, that clears up the issue - I thought it was more akin and scripted like Judge Judy.No, I think Judge Judy is an actual trial based program too. Sort of like People's Court if you've ever seen that which, is kind of what started the whole thing.

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by Radrook
The Lord God disagrees with you:

Psalm 53:1
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.
Reality disagrees with you (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38590).

[Radrook]

Originally posted by Blue Monk


True and this kid had autism not demons. Superstitious BS just like I said.

And the exorcist killed him in an superstitious act that could not improve the child's condition under any circumstances.

The exorcist killed him not God that's for sure.

Superstitious Bull, any way you want to slice it.


When Jesus was on earth he cured both normally ill persons, such as the woman who had an abnormal bood flow, the man with a withered hand, and the blind man at the temple.



However, there were some occasions when the illness or behavior was identified as being caused by harassment by rebel angels.

In such cases Jesus used his power to force the evil spirit to leave.

Note that Jesus did not spend hours arguing, massaging, or otherwise touching the person. Jesus merely ordered the entity to leave and the entity was forced to vacate.

You cannot soffocate by giving an order.

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Blue Monk

True and this kid had autism not demons. Superstitious BS just like I said.So, was the child born autistic? Or, did something happen to traumatize the child?

[Doctor X]

The law disagrees with him as well.

--J.D.

[Blue Monk]

Originally posted by Radrook



When Jesus was on earth he cured both normally ill persons, such as the woman who had an abnormal bood flow, the man with a withered hand, and the blind man at the temple.



However, there were some occasions when the illness or behavior was identified as being caused by harassment by rebel angels.

In such cases Jesus used his power to force the evil spirit to leave.

Note that Jesus did not spend hours arguing, massaging, or otherwise touching the person. Jesus merely ordered the entity to leave and the entity was forced to vacate.

You cannot soffocate by giving an order.

All totally unsubstantiated.

It is a belief system you are totally entitled to embrace but it is not provable fact.

Trying to cure autism with an exorcism is superstitious rubbish that contributed to the death of this child.

[Blue Monk]

Originally posted by Iacchus
So, was the child born autistic? Or, did something happen to traumatize the child?

The causes of autism are unknown. There is certainly no evidence at all that it is caused by demons, elves or fairies.

An exorcism is a superstitious response to a complex medical condition that resulted in the death of a child.

[Benguin]

Whatever the priest was trying to do or, believed in, or understood to be the problem it seems to be a rather contemptible attempt to hide behind his position and shirk responsibility.

[RabbiSatan]

Originally posted by Benguin
Whatever the priest was trying to do or, believed in, or understood to be the problem it seems to be a rather contemptible attempt to hide behind his position and shirk responsibility.

Well, as they say, "God works in mysterious ways" :rolleyes:

[daenku32]

Originally posted by Radrook
The Lord God disagrees with you:

Psalm 53:1
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

Sounds like hate speech to me. Claiming that all that deny god are up to criminal acts (hence need to be courted up and locked away).

[Z]

Actually, to defend Rad, I think he's trying to say an exorcism wouldn't have resulted in death because there would be no contact between priest and child; i.e. even from Rad's unusual Christian perspective, this priest is squarely to blame.

[Radrook]

Originally posted by daenku32


Sounds like hate speech to me. Claiming that all that deny god are up to criminal acts (hence need to be courted up and locked away).

Some read the Bible and see hatred everywhere.
Others read it and see hatred only when hatred is expressed.
The statement is an instructive observation that those who do not have godly principles to guide them tend to be a law unto themselves and so tend to fall into an unwise type of conduct.

[dmarker]

Originally posted by Riddick
This is where I post about the atheist/mensa dude who poisoned his neighbor, thusly killing her. He sits on death row, in Florida I believe.

So we have a little Tit-for-Tat going and atheists maintain how they're more self-rightous than anybody on the face of the planet.

atheists: It's all about you. ;)

I have the book on the case. He killed his neighbor because they made too much noise. I didn't read anything about him being an atheist though. Where did you get that, Rad?

[dmarker]

Originally posted by Radrook
The Lord God disagrees with you:

Psalm 53:1
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

So all the atheists that have done good don't really exist because your book says so?

[dmarker]

Originally posted by Radrook

Atheists
http://www.carm.org/atheism.htm





Love that site, kinda like giving out rubber swords to battle dragons.

[dmarker]

Originally posted by Radrook


Some read the Bible and see hatred everywhere.
Others read it and see hatred only when hatred is expressed.
The statement is an instructive observation that those who do not have godly principles to guide them tend to be a law unto themselves and so tend to fall into an unwise type of conduct.


In other words, the book doesn't mean what it says and only those who already believe can really know what it means?

[Radrook]

Originally posted by dmarker



Love that site, kinda like giving out rubber swords to battle dragons.

I have a much more powerful sword at my disposal than that my friend:



Ephesians 6:17
Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.



Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-_edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.


NIV


As for dragons?
Dragons do not fare too well in the Bible.


Revelation 12
3. Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads. ....

7. And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8. But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9. The great dragon was hurled down--that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

Rather humiliating--don't you think?

[dmarker]

Originally posted by Radrook


I have a much more powerful sword at my disposal than that my friend:



Ephesians 6:17
Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.



Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-_edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.


NIV


As for dragons?
Dragons do not fare too well in the Bible.


Revelation 12
3. Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads. ....

7. And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8. But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9. The great dragon was hurled down--that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

Rather humiliating--don't you think?


So you quote Revelations, did you know that serial killers use Revelations as pornography? It's imagery stimulates them.

Bible quotes won't save you here.

[RabbiSatan]

Originally posted by Radrook
I have a much more powerful sword at my disposal than that my friend:

Ephesians 6:17
Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
I have something even more powerful.

The Invisible Pink Dragon's Holy Book - Chapter 15: Verse 3

All other gods are deemed false, they are untrue - take my sword, and smash them all.

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-_edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

The Invisible Pink Dragon's Holy Book - Chapter 36: Verse 9

The word of the Dragon is omnipotent and true - and is more powerful than anything else in the universe. It is the light of the soul, and encompases perfection.



*sigh* Using bibles verses to make an argument...so easy to shoot down.

[Ipecac]

Originally posted by Radrook
I have a much more powerful sword at my disposal than that my friend:

Ephesians 6:17
Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-_edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

NIV

As for dragons?
Dragons do not fare too well in the Bible.


Revelation 12
3. Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads. ....

7. And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8. But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9. The great dragon was hurled down--that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

Rather humiliating--don't you think?

Apparently you missed the lecture where it was said that quoting the bible against atheists is ineffective because they don't believe it's the word of any god. The bible was written by a group of primitive, superstitious people who knew very little about how the world actually works.

Would quotes from "The Cat in the Hat" change your mind?

[Radrook]

Originally posted by dmarker



So you quote Revelations, did you know that serial killers use Revelations as pornography? It's imagery stimulates them.

Bible quotes won't save you here.

There was this person who kept always telling me about a certain man who locked himself in his room, read the Bible from cover to cover, and then blew his brains out with his Smith & Wesson.

I simply kept explaining that the man obviousy misunderstood the whole book.

I strongly suspect that a teacher to explain to him what he was reading would have helped.

Acts 8:

30. Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. "Do you understand what you are reading?" Philip asked.
31. "How can I," he said, "unless someone explains it to me?" So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.

[Radrook]

Originally posted by Ipecac

The bible was written by a group of primitive, superstitious people who knew very little about how the world actually works.

Would quotes from "The Cat in the Hat" change your mind?

Writing is one thing.
Being inspired to write is another.


BTW
In reference to your insultant remarks:
That's a matter of your biased opinion.
It should be more than clear by now that the quotes aren't meant for you nor any other atheist, agnostic or satanist that might chance to read them. They are meant for those capable of apreciating them.

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by Radrook




30. Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. "Do you understand what you are reading?" Philip asked.
31. "How can I," he said, "unless someone explains it to me?" So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.

Seems like a prophet that has trouble being understood, ought to look for other work...

P.S.

If we need help understanding something ( particularly a guide to salvation ), how can we be sure the person we get to help, really understands it ? :confused:

[Virgil]

what bothers me is if they thought the kid was possesed by the devil etc... how were they treating him. with love or like the demon filled thing he was...ie were beating him yelling at him, rebuking him the whole of his short life.


that makes this little tiger sad.

V

[Radrook]

[i]*sigh* Using bibles verses to make an argument...so easy to shoot down.

There is no argument.


bTW
The Bible has existed long before you came along wiht your little bean shooter claiming to be able to shoot it down and will continue to exist long after you and your little beanshooter are gone.

[dmarker]

Originally posted by Radrook


There was this person who kept always telling me about a certain man who locked himself in his room, read the Bible from cover to cover, and then blew his brains out with his Smith & Wesson.

I simply kept explaining that the man obviousy misunderstood the whole book.

I strongly suspect that a teacher to explain to him what he was reading would have helped.

Acts 8:

30. Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. "Do you understand what you are reading?" Philip asked.
31. "How can I," he said, "unless someone explains it to me?" So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.

We're back to the bible doesn't really mean what it says and you have to believe (in the correct way) in order to understand what the bible really means.

But which way is the correct way? We've already established that your god is a mere assumption in another thread, Observations on Atheists. Perhaps the man who blew his brains out read the book correctly or the serial killers who read Revelations before going out to kill read the book correctly. You assume that your way of interpreting the bible is the only correct way, but how do you know this?

[RabbiSatan]

Originally posted by Radrook
There is no argument.

Indeed, it's nothing but a fairy tale.

The Bible has existed long before you came along wiht your little bean shooter claiming to be able to shoot it down and will continue to exist long after you and your little beanshooter are gone.

The Bagvha Ghita has existed long before Christianity came - What point are you trying to make?

[daenku32]

Originally posted by Radrook


Some read the Bible and see hatred everywhere.
Others read it and see hatred only when hatred is expressed.
The statement is an instructive observation that those who do not have godly principles to guide them tend to be a law unto themselves and so tend to fall into an unwise type of conduct.

Tend to? It's that like a 'may it will, maybe it won't? Because "there is none that doeth good." sounds to me like there is not just tending, but certain criminality to be expected.

If I said about Jews that "there is none that doeth good.", I'd be called an anti-semite.

[dmarker]

Originally posted by Radrook


There is no argument.


bTW
The Bible has existed long before you came along wiht your little bean shooter claiming to be able to shoot it down and will continue to exist long after you and your little beanshooter are gone.

Argument from antiquity. The Hindu scriptures were here long before the bible, why not believe in them too?

Put away your rubber sword before you put your eye out.

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by Radrook



The statement is an instructive observation that those who do not have godly principles to guide them tend to be a law unto themselves and so tend to fall into an unwise type of conduct.

It's an idiotic observation that has no basis in fact.

However, it is a fact, that most inmates of U.S. prisons claim to have religious beliefs.

I'm not suggesting that atheists tend to be more law abiding than believers, but someone such as yourself, who screams out for logical behaviour from others, shouldn't make such fallacious statements ...

[daenku32]

Originally posted by Radrook


I have a much more powerful sword at my disposal than that my friend:



Ephesians 6:17
Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.



Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-_edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.


NIV


As for dragons?
Dragons do not fare too well in the Bible.


Revelation 12
3. Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads. ....

7. And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8. But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9. The great dragon was hurled down--that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

Rather humiliating--don't you think?

I thought Old Testament doesn't apply to us non-Jews.

[daenku32]

Originally posted by Radrook

I strongly suspect that a teacher to explain to him what he was reading would have helped.

Acts 8:

30. Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. "Do you understand what you are reading?" Philip asked.
31. "How can I," he said, "unless someone explains it to me?" So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.

Must not be part of Protestat faith since it's 'all about individualism'.

Are you telling us that we now need a central religious authority figure that's alive and selected by an elite group of religious people, to tell us how to read it?

[Radrook]

Originally posted by daenku32


I thought Old Testament doesn't apply to us non-Jews.



The quotes are from the NT.
Or are you referring to the reference to Eden?
What do you understand as the meaning of the phrase "Old Testament"?

[Radrook]

Originally posted by daenku32


Must not be part of Protestat faith since it's 'all about individualism'.

Are you telling us that we now need a central religious authority figure that's alive and selected by an elite group of religious people, to tell us how to read it?



There are things in the Bible that necessitate study before we understand them. The Apostles needed Jesus to teach them. The Apostles taught others. They organized churches where the scriptures were taught. Missionary work was organized to spread knowledge of th Gospel.

Jesus himself clearly commanded that Christians should teach others.

Matthew 28
19. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[1] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20. and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."


So this strange aversion to being taught is unscriptural.


Were the Apostles an elite group?
Did the Apostles teach?

BTW
On what authority do you base your rejection of scripture about the Ethiopian who was taught? Or the rejection of Jesus command to teach others. Or of the Apostles teaching others? Or all the other references in both the OT and NT that clearly tell us that we must teach others about God or be teachable ourselves?


Deuteronomy 4:9
Only be careful, and watch yourselves closely so that you do not forget the things your eyes have seen or let them slip from your heart as long as you live. Teach them to your children and to their children after them.

[daenku32]

Originally posted by Radrook
The quotes are from the NT.
Or are you referring to the reference to Eden?
What do you understand as the meaning of the phrase "Old Testament"?

Ups. my bad. Got them mixed up. For some reason I mixed revalations with deuteronomy. Lucky that the confusion didn't make me kill anyone.

[Radrook]

Originally posted by daenku32


Ups. my bad. Got them mixed up. For some reason I mixed revalations with deuteronomy. Lucky that the confusion didn't make me kill anyone.

You people don't need the Bible to find a reason to kill.
You find plenty of reasons all by yourselves.
Such as impressing the Russians by incinerating the citizens of Dresden for example. Most of you people don't even bat an eyelash when that comes up.

Strange!

Incidentally, heckling is not good for discussion purposaes.
It tends to put a stop to any further communication.

[daenku32]

Originally posted by Radrook

There are things in the Bible that necessitate study before we understand them.

Then the book needs a warning sign. "Must not be read unless in the presence of religious authority figures." We don't want people to think that just because they read something from the bible that it's really so.

QUOTE]Originally posted by Radrook

On what authority do you base your rejection of scripture about the Ethiopian who was taught?
[/QUOTE]

Maybe I wasn't told that it's true by a 'valid' teacher. It could just be an misinterpretation.



btw, I'm not a Christian. I just want to understand them.

[Ipecac]

Originally posted by Radrook
Writing is one thing.
Being inspired to write is another.

BTW
In reference to your insultant remarks:
That's a matter of your biased opinion.
It should be more than clear by now that the quotes aren't meant for you nor any other atheist, agnostic or satanist that might chance to read them. They are meant for those capable of apreciating them.

Who am I insulting? By today's standards, the people who wrote the bible were primitive and superstitious. The terms are perfectly descriptive.

As far as the rest, if your god exists and did write the bible, I would hope that the bible would speak to *everyone*. Suggesting that an all-powerful god would write a guide to eternal life and then make it incomprehensible to some is to define that god as unjust.

(I was a Christian for 35 years. I did "appreciate" the bible. Then my brain kicked in and I realized that I had no more reason to believe Chrisitianity than any other unsubstantiated belief.)

[plindboe]

Originally posted by thaiboxerken
You christians should grow up, then maybe this kind of senseless killing won't happen.

So a christian kills someone because of stupidity -> Ergo all christians should grow up. That's the worst reasoning I have encountered for a while.

[Ipecac]

Originally posted by Radrook
You people don't need the Bible to find a reason to kill.
You find plenty of reasons all by yourselves.
Such as impressing the Russians by incinerating the citizens of Dresden for example. Most of you people don't even bat an eyelash when that comes up.

Strange!

Incidentally, heckling is not good for discussion purposaes.
It tends to put a stop to any further communication.

I thought your Dresden example was strictly limited to demonstrating that some killing is seen as necessary. Now it's an example of "you people", by which I presume you mean atheists, killing? Huh? I thought the good Christian leaders of the west ordered that bombing.

[uruk]

I agree. However, like I say, in a round about way the responsibility is God's.

Under this reasoning all crimes committed would be god's responsibility.

[Blue Monk]

Originally posted by Radrook
Writing is one thing.
Being inspired to write is another.


Believing the inspiration came from God is one thing.
Establishing that the inspriration came from God as fact is another.

[Benguin]

You people don't need the Bible to find a reason to kill.
You find plenty of reasons all by yourselves.
Such as impressing the Russians by incinerating the citizens of Dresden for example. Most of you people don't even bat an eyelash when that comes up.



Why is it you attempt to characterise anyone who disagrees with you in the same way?

Churchill ordered the bombing, even if he later recanted on it as he believed the consequences wrong.
(a christian who saw WW2 as fight to preserve christian civilisation)

'Bomber' Harris was the advocate.
(traditional english public school protestant)

It was done to impress Stalin.
(trained catholic priest who airbrushed his history to impress his marxist chums)

Show me the atheism ...

And I would not suggest for a second atheism immunises anyone from immorale or repugnant acts.

[Gulliamo]

Originally posted by zaayrdragon
Ironically, in order to be a Satanist, you have to be of the same faith as Judeo-Christian-Muslim faith. Why, you ask, is this so?

Because Satan is a creation of this faith. No one outside of these three believes in Satan. Three? What three are you referring to? Christians, Satanists and who?

[Doctor X]

Perhaps if someone gave him some viagra for his penknife?

--J.D.

[LostAngeles]

Originally posted by Gulliamo
Three? What three are you referring to? Christians, Satanists and who?

Jews, Christians, and Muslims. In order to be a Satanist, and thusly believe in Satan, you have to be one of those three first.

[Z]

The history of our world is full of repugnant atrocities... and the scales tilt inexorably to the side of atrocities by the Faithful against atrocities by the Athiests.

Need I even bother with the Inquisition, the Burning Times, the Crusades, the last couple of thousand years in the Middle East, 9-11, and so forth? And of those examples which I do not know had a faithful person or persons at the helm, I don't know that they were atheists either, such as Waco, WWI, WWII, Vietnam, Korea, Oklahoma City, Hiroshima, Nagasaki? What were the religions leanings of those responsible in these terrible atrocities?

And what about Hitler? He obviously had something against Jews - but was he some form of Christian himself, or an atheist? I really don't know - funny, how I can be immersed in Holocaust culture for so long and not know such a thing.

Even going back to Rad's precious Book of Common Lies - er, Bible - look at the atrocities required by God of his chosen people, the least of which is mutilation of genitals, burning of animals, and warfare against other peoples.

So, which way are the scales tipped, Rad?

[Benguin]

Originally posted by LostAngeles


Jews, Christians, and Muslims. In order to be a Satanist, and thusly believe in Satan, you have to be one of those three first.

I've just never understood how satanists square that circle ... what exactly is it they believe in?

[Z]

If I understand correctly, they believe pretty much in the whole Bible, except that Satan is on Man's side, and God is a bastard. God makes this big ol' universe, creates life, gives Adam and Eve the Garden, then plants two 'trees' smack in the middle, making them as tempting as possible, thereby setting up the First Couple for the Big Fall... then Satan comes along, calls God a Big, Fat Liar, and gets Man to think for himself.

If I remember properly, the view is that Satan's fall had to do with disobeying God regarding treatment of Man - that Satan's been on Man's side the whole time, while God has been toying with and trying to enslave Man all along.

That's if I remember correctly.

[Ossai]

Radrook

You people don't need the Bible to find a reason to kill.
You find plenty of reasons all by yourselves.
Such as impressing the Russians by incinerating the citizens of Dresden for example. Most of you people don't even bat an eyelash when that comes up. Since it was Christians that ordered and carried out the bombings then I’m assuming the You people is referring to them.

Ossai

[Benguin]

Thanks for the clarification ... why do I now see you as Al Pacino? :D

[LostAngeles]

I think the short answer is "They take Paradise Lost a bit too seriously."

[Z]

Now I'm Al Pacino... Great. I went from an innocent Pagan to the Beast to Al Pacino all in one day.

Next someone's gonna call me Archie Bunker!

"EEEEdiiiiittthhhh!!!!!!"

[uruk]

And what about Hitler? He obviously had something against Jews - but was he some form of Christian himself, or an atheist? I really don't know - funny, how I can be immersed in Holocaust culture for so long and not know such a thing.

I believe in Mien Kampf (and in other sources I can't recall at the moment) Hitler publicly professes himself to be a christian. Wether he actually was one or not is open to debate.

[RabbiSatan]

This (http://www.nobeliefs.com/Hitler1.htm) site should tell quite a bit about Hitler and his Christianity - he certainly wasn't an Atheist.

[Z]

Well, that pretty much sums it up - Christians are a nasty lot, huh?

[Gulliamo]

Originally posted by LostAngeles
Jews, Christians, and Muslims. In order to be a Satanist, and thusly believe in Satan, you have to be one of those three first. I was under the impression that one of the big advantages of being Jewish is that there is "no hell" . If there is not a hell then how can there be a Satan?

If this is not true please provide evidence and I will concede.

http://www.beliefnet.com/features/heaven_chart.html

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/judaism/FAQ/06-Jewish-Thought/section-9.html

[Gulliamo]

Originally posted by LostAngeles
Jews, Christians, and Muslims. In order to be a Satanist, and thusly believe in Satan, you have to be one of those three first. I was under the impression that one of the big advantages of being Jewish is that there is "no hell" . If there is not a hell then how can there be a Satan?

If this is not true please provide evidence and I will concede.

http://www.beliefnet.com/features/heaven_chart.html

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/judaism/FAQ/06-Jewish-Thought/section-9.html

http://www.beingjewish.com/basics/satan.html

[Radrook]

Originally posted by uruk


I believe in Mien Kampf (and in other sources I can't recall at the moment) Hitler publicly professes himself to be a christian. Wether he actually was one or not is open to debate.


Hitler's Christianity is open to debate?

You are either Christian or you are not.
There isn't such thing as a form of Christian.
Neither is there a convenient middle ground as many
people hope.


Matthew 12:30
"He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters.



Not all who claim to be spiritully rich Christians are.
There are people who make such claims--as Hitler himself did--but who are in very sad spiritual condition. Jesus identified them by their deeds or their behavior.


Revelation 3
15. I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16. So, because you are lukewarm--neither hot nor cold--I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17. You say, 'I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.' But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked.


BTW
I find it rather weird that credentials are required if anyone makes the claim of being of certain groups but none are required when claiming to be Christian.

This phenomenon seems to dovetail very nicely with the miscionception that the Bible can be interprested accurately a million and one ways.

[Doctor X]

Hitler may have been a Christian, but he was no true Scotsman. . . .

Gulliamo:

I was under the impression that one of the big advantages of being Jewish is that there is "no hell" . If there is not a hell then how can there be a Satan?

"Satan" is not what you think. "He" began as an it--"stn"--which is a thing you trip over. It is an obstacle which is "good" if it prevents you from doing something "bad."

The earliest extant biblical text has "the satan"--Job. He is part of the heavenly council since YHWH asks him where he has been. "The satan" is often translated as "Prosecutor" since that appear to be "his job." [Stop that.--Ed.] He is not evil/rebel/fallen angel or any of that.

Should someone try to argue Lucifer I have a long post that will make his head swim!

Anyways, "he" first appears as a figure "Satan" in Chronicles. This rewrites the Deuteronomistic History. In what is interpreted by many scholars as a political commentary, YHWH tells David to conduct a census.

David does this.

YHWH then punishes David for conducting the census!!

The Chronicler introduces "Satan" to do YHWH's "dirty work" in his version. Granted, it seems unfair to punish thousands of Israelites because David was duped, but the issues are not "fairness" but power.

So . . . is there a hell? Not really. Sheol is a place where it appears everyone goes. In a scene reminiscent of The Odyssey, Saul talks to Samuel. No information is given on "punishment" at all.

Punishment is quite earthly. YHWH squishes people. Now, if you have a Hell with fire, brimstone, and devils poking you with salad forks, why all the "destruction?"

You suffer in this life.

A great and readable reference on the development of a satan to the satan to . . . . could it be? . . . SATAN?!!! is:

Forsyth N. The Old Enemy: Satan and the Combat Myth. Princeton: 1987.

--J.D.

[thaiboxerken]

I find it rather weird that credentials are required if anyone makes the claim of being of certain groups but none are required when claiming to be Christian.

Rad, what are the objective criteria used to determine if a person is a christian or just claiming to be a christian?

This phenomenon seems to dovetail very nicely with the miscionception that the Bible can be interprested accurately a million and one ways.

And what is the only accurate interpretation of the bible? Who are the only people that can accurately interpret it? What credentials must on have to be considered able to accurately interpret the bible? Why is it that the bible itself says that it can be understood by the simple?


So a christian kills someone because of stupidity -> Ergo all christians should grow up. That's the worst reasoning I have encountered for a while.

Yes, because it's the childish beliefs of christians that cause this type of atrocity.

[Benguin]

Hitler's Christianity is open to debate?


Well OK, you've seen the sources. He was either a christian or he was lying about that to help garner support. So it's possible he was an atheist, but not certain.

Nothing in what he did or said precludes him from being a christian.


You are either Christian or you are not.
There isn't such thing as a form of Christian.
Neither is there a convenient middle ground as many
people hope.


Well some might see that as a false dichetomy to shore up your constant no true scotsman fallacies. I actually agree with you, but you need to define what it is to be a christian in some way that agrees with the bible ... and then I'm left needing to check with you about every single person who claims to be a christian before I can accept their word.

As far as I understand Jesus only said you had to accept his love into your heart ... but how would one prove an individual has done that?

BTW, you still haven't explained why you keep banging on about Dresden, see my previous post ... I'm confused about the point you're trying to make and so are others.

Answer the question or Doc X will start a fight between Satan and Lucifer.

[Radrook]

:Gulliamo:

I was under the impression that one of the big advantages of being Jewish is that there is "no hell" . If there is not a hell then how can there be a Satan?

God created an angel called Lucifer.
As all angels, he was rightious.
Then he decided to rebel and became an adversary and a slanderer.

Satan and Devil.
Those are the meanings of those words.
He slandered God by telling lies.

He became Satan, or adversary of God by going opposite to God's will.

He became devil or slanderer by telling lies about God.

Contrary to popular opinion, he was not rewarded for his rebellion by being give a special place to torture other sinners. That idea was invented centuries later and is part of the devilish propaganda distributed to make God look unjust.

Here is a good article on the origin of the hellfire idea.
http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/tbhell.html

[Radrook]

Originally posted by Benguin


Well OK, you've seen the sources. He was either a christian or he was lying about that to help garner support. So it's possible he was an atheist, but not certain.

Nothing in what he did or said precludes him from being a christian.

Then you have a completely unbiblical view of what Jesus tells us that a Christian is. Which of course is your right to have. But unbiblical nevertheless. Perhaps if it were you and ur family he had ordered tortured and finally sent to the ovens you would be singing a different song? But that perhaps is irrelevant.



Well some might see that as a false dichetomy to shore up your constant no true scotsman fallacies. I actually agree with you, but you need to define what it is to be a christian in some way that agrees with the bible ... and then I'm left needing to check with you about every single person who claims to be a christian before I can accept their word.

I don't need to do any of those things.
Neither do you need to twist what I say but yet you do.
So since it is your straw man--you argue with it.

As far as I understand Jesus only said you had to accept his love into your heart ... but how would one prove an individual has done that?

Then you obviously lack prper understanding and know very little and should make sure you are adequately informed before touting your mere opinions as biblical fact.



BTW, you still haven't explained why you keep banging on about Dresden, see my previous post ... I'm confused about the point you're trying to make and so are others.

Why do you keep waxing self-rightiously melodic about God taking lives in Canaan?



Answer the question or Doc X will start a fight between Satan and [B][I]Lucifer.

If I cared about what he is saying I would have kept him off my banned list. Now and then I peek out of curiosity though.

[Radrook]

Originally posted by Blue Monk


All totally unsubstantiated.

It is a belief system you are totally entitled to embrace but it is not provable fact.

Trying to cure autism with an exorcism is superstitious rubbish that contributed to the death of this child.


rubbish = abiogenesis yet you totally embrace it now don't you?

[Benguin]

Originally posted by Radrook


I don't need to do any of those things.
Neither do you need to twist what I say but yet you do.
So since it is your straw man--you argue with it.


Fine, you may leave your assertions unsupported if you wish. It is you who wants to tell us what a christian is, what is an unchristian act, etc.

So tell us.

Perhaps if it were you and ur family he had ordered tortured and finally sent to the ovens you would be singing a different song? But that perhaps is irrelevant.

I really don't see how that would affect my view of whether or not he is a christian or anything else.

Then you obviously lack prper understanding and know very little and should make sure you are adequately informed before touting your mere opinions as biblical fact.

Certainly a plausible explanation, more likely yet another attempt to avoid answering a simple question. What is a Christian? Under what circumstances would you state someone is only lying about being a christian?


Why do you keep waxing self-rightiously melodic about God taking lives in Canaan?

No answer then. I see a theme developing here.

If I cared about what he is saying I would have kept him off my banned list. Now and then I peek out of curiosity though.

You should look more often, he posts well-researched intelligent pieces. Sometimes.

[Radrook]

Originally posted by Benguin


[quote]
Fine, you may leave your assertions unsupported if you wish. It is you who wants to tell us what a christian is, what is an unchristian act, etc.

Get off your duffer and look it up yourself!
I am not your personal research service!



So tell us.


The plural of majesty?



I really don't see how that would affect my view of whether or not he is a christian or anything else.

Sure! Sure! Ahu! Ahuh!



Certainly a plausible explanation, more likely yet another attempt to avoid answering a simple question. What is a Christian? Under what circumstances would you state someone is only lying about being a christian?

Under the circumstances that a self proclaimed Christian is behaving like Satan himself personified.


Ummmmm, butuuuuummmm? what would I consuider ummmm acting like ummmmm satan himself personfied ummmmm?



No answer then. I see a theme developing here.

The theme of not respondig to straw man and feigned ignorance.



You should look more often, he posts well-researched intelligent pieces. Sometimes.

Nahhhhhhhhhhhhh!

[Doctor X]

If I cared about what he is saying I would have kept him off my banned list. Now and then I peek out of curiosity though.


Coward

since he previously claimed he would debate his assertions:

Liar

--J.D.

--J.D.

[Doctor X]

Someone tell the Liar et Coward that this:

God created an angel called Lucifer.
As all angels, he was rightious.
Then he decided to rebel and became an adversary and a slanderer.

is contradicted by the Bible.

What the hell. . . .

Please to meet you! Hope you can guess my name!

This is quoted from Forsyth's The Old Enemy: Satan and the Combat Myth

. . . the myth alluded to in Isaiah looks like a blending of the Ugaritic traditions with a story very much like the Phaethon myth; the three together look like variants, adapted to their several purposes, of one common rebel plot.

The following part of Isaiah's famous taunt represents the shades of the dead kings in Sheol, the Waste Land, greeting a new arrival. . . :

Have you too become weak like us,
Have you become like us?
Your pride is brought down to Sheol,
The sound of your harps:
Maggots are the bed beneath you,
And worms are your covering.
How you are fallen from heaven,
Helel ben Shahar (Shining One, son of Dawn)!
How you are feeled to earth,
Conqueror of the nations!
You said in your heart:
"I will ascend to heaven
Above the stars of El.
I will set my throne on high,
I will sit enthroned
On the mount of assembly,
On the recesses of Zaphon [in the far north].
I will ascend upon the high clouds,
I will become like Elyon!"
But you are brought down to Sheol
to the depth of the Pit. [Clifford and Kaiser translations.--Ed.]

The ambitious thoughts of the rebel allude to some figure like the Ugaritic Athtar, who also went up to the "reaches of Zaphon" to challenge the king (though Baal, not El, in the versions we have), and the name of this mythological rebel, "Shining One, Son of Dawn," makes him an exact equivalent of the Greek Phaethon.

Shahar [Even we cannot render the transliterations with "." below letters. This is close.--Ed.], in various Hebrew contexts, preserves some of its old mythological meaning as a feminine dawn goddess ["Ps. 108.2; 110.3, 139.9, in which dawn has wings and can fly. . . ." from footnote.--Ed.], and the original of this feminine dawn may well have been the Indo-European goddess Usas, the Heos of Homer and Hesiod, perhaps blended now with Semitic Ishtar. Her son, Helel, may possibly be the sun itself, and indeed Shahar may mean the rising sun, according to an older school of thought, or Helel may be an allusion to the planet Venus, as most modern commentators on the passage believe. Whether or not the composer of the Isaiah passage made this explicit identification, the Greek translators of the Septuagint certainly did, since their translation of Helel ben Shahar as Heosphoros ho proi anatellon clearly combines the astrolonomical identification with Hesiod's Hesophoros, son of Heos, the dawn-bringer, Venus. The Greek was in turn rendered by the Latin vulgate as Lucifer, qui mane oriebaris, and the name has stuck to the rebel ever since.

Whether he has a specific original in the period, or whether he is the generic representative of all such kings--a more likely assumption--this particular
Babylonian king apparently led a glorious life, but he is here aligned with the upstart rebel, . . . . . . and the redactor of this text, the man responsible for its inclusion in the Isaiah scroll, has no doubts about who this is. He introduces the poem with the following prose words addressed to the Israelites: "When Yahweh has given you rest from your pain and turmoil and the hard service with which you were made to serve, you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon."

It is generally agreed that the poem we are discussing does not come from the genuine Isaiah of Jerusalem, the great eight-century prophet.

--J. "I'm a Man of Wealth and Taste" D.

References:

Forsyth N. The Old Enemy: Satan and the Combat Myth. Princeton: 1987.

Clifford RJ. The Cosmic Mountain in Canaan and the Old Testament. Harvard University Press: 1972.

Kaiser O. Isaiah 13-39: A Commentary. Westminster: 1974.

[Benguin]

Originally posted by Doctor X
Someone tell the Liar et Coward that this:



is contradicted by the Bible.

What the hell. . . .

Please to meet you! Hope you can guess my name!

This is quoted from Forsyth's The Old Enemy: Satan and the Combat Myth

. . . the myth alluded to in Isaiah looks like a blending of the Ugaritic traditions with a story very much like the Phaethon myth; the three together look like variants, adapted to their several purposes, of one common rebel plot.

The following part of Isaiah's famous taunt represents the shades of the dead kings in Sheol, the Waste Land, greeting a new arrival. . . :



The ambitious thoughts of the rebel allude to some figure like the Ugaritic Athtar, who also went up to the "reaches of Zaphon" to challenge the king (though Baal, not El, in the versions we have), and the name of this mythological rebel, "Shining One, Son of Dawn," makes him an exact equivalent of the Greek Phaethon.

Shahar [Even we cannot render the transliterations with "." below letters. This is close.--Ed.], in various Hebrew contexts, preserves some of its old mythological meaning as a feminine dawn goddess ["Ps. 108.2; 110.3, 139.9, in which dawn has wings and can fly. . . ." from footnote.--Ed.], and the original of this feminine dawn may well have been the Indo-European goddess Usas, the Heos of Homer and Hesiod, perhaps blended now with Semitic Ishtar. Her son, Helel, may possibly be the sun itself, and indeed Shahar may mean the rising sun, according to an older school of thought, or Helel may be an allusion to the planet Venus, as most modern commentators on the passage believe. Whether or not the composer of the Isaiah passage made this explicit identification, the Greek translators of the Septuagint certainly did, since their translation of Helel ben Shahar as Heosphoros ho proi anatellon clearly combines the astrolonomical identification with Hesiod's Hesophoros, son of Heos, the dawn-bringer, Venus. The Greek was in turn rendered by the Latin vulgate as Lucifer, qui mane oriebaris, and the name has stuck to the rebel ever since.

Whether he has a specific original in the period, or whether he is the generic representative of all such kings--a more likely assumption--this particular
Babylonian king apparently led a glorious life, but he is here aligned with the upstart rebel, . . . . . . and the redactor of this text, the man responsible for its inclusion in the Isaiah scroll, has no doubts about who this is. He introduces the poem with the following prose words addressed to the Israelites: "When Yahweh has given you rest from your pain and turmoil and the hard service with which you were made to serve, you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon."

It is generally agreed that the poem we are discussing does not come from the genuine Isaiah of Jerusalem, the great eight-century prophet.

--J. "I'm a Man of Wealth and Taste" D.

References:

Forsyth N. The Old Enemy: Satan and the Combat Myth. Princeton: 1987.

Clifford RJ. The Cosmic Mountain in Canaan and the Old Testament. Harvard University Press: 1972.

Kaiser O. Isaiah 13-39: A Commentary. Westminster: 1974.

Well no point really, he's given up justifying his assertions and just resorted to mudslinging.

I usually find christians happy to debate their faith in a polite and rational way. Makes me think this guy is just pretending in order to troll us.

He seems to oscillate between insisting his intrepretation is the valid one and then refusing to define the interpretation, I'm sure I've seen that from someone else on this board a while back.

Heyho, it's the weekend so I think I'll take up nailing jelly (jello for the americans) to the ceiling as it is less futile.

[Z]

I'm not surprised Rad banned Doc X - the Doc backs up his statements will well-researched information that refutes Rad's points, including cited references. Meanwhile, Rad waxes poetic about his personal beliefs without any supporting evidence, except some selectively quoted Bible verses, and 50 lbs of mudslinging.

I suspect that Rad falls firmly under the category of False Christian, as well.

[Radrook]

Originally posted by thaiboxerken
http://www.courttv.com/trials/exorcist/070804_ctv.html

The brother of a minister on trial for suffocating an autistic child during an exorcism told jurors Thursday morning that it was God who "took" the child, not the defendant's violent ritual.



You christians should grow up, then maybe this kind of senseless killing won't happen.

Maybe a more sensible killing to your lliking like Hiroshima and Dresdren? Now that was real sensible from an atheistic standpoint. All those souls that were supposed to become disembodied and yet nothing was seen going heavenward or hellward except maybe ashes and dust.

Makes an avowed atheist become teary eyed with satisfaction.

[Radrook]

Originally posted by Doctor X
Hitler may have been a Christian, but he was no true Scotsman. . . .

Gulliamo:



"Satan" is not what you think. "He" began as an it--"stn"--which is a thing you trip over. It is an obstacle which is "good" if it prevents you from doing something "bad."

The earliest extant biblical text has "the satan"--Job. He is part of the heavenly council since YHWH asks him where he has been. "The satan" is often translated as "Prosecutor" since that appear to be "his job." [Stop that.--Ed.] He is not evil/rebel/fallen angel or any of that.

Should someone try to argue Lucifer I have a long post that will make his head swim!

Anyways, "he" first appears as a figure "Satan" in Chronicles. This rewrites the Deuteronomistic History. In what is interpreted by many scholars as a political commentary, YHWH tells David to conduct a census.

David does this.

YHWH then punishes David for conducting the census!!

The Chronicler introduces "Satan" to do YHWH's "dirty work" in his version. Granted, it seems unfair to punish thousands of Israelites because David was duped, but the issues are not "fairness" but power.

So . . . is there a hell? Not really. Sheol is a place where it appears everyone goes. In a scene reminiscent of The Odyssey, Saul talks to Samuel. No information is given on "punishment" at all.

Punishment is quite earthly. YHWH squishes people. Now, if you have a Hell with fire, brimstone, and devils poking you with salad forks, why all the "destruction?"

You suffer in this life.

A great and readable reference on the development of a satan to the satan to . . . . could it be? . . . SATAN?!!! is:

Forsyth N. The Old Enemy: Satan and the Combat Myth. Princeton: 1987.

--J.D.

This is an example of ignorance par excellence sugar coated and cellophane wrappped in semi scholarship with some good ole gobbletdygook thrown in for good measure. Course there's always some eqyally misguided misinformed sycophant who will eagewrly lap it up in order to jump onto the wannabe intellectual bandwagon.

[Radrook]

Originally posted by zaayrdragon
I'm not surprised Rad banned Doc X - the Doc backs up his statements will well-researched information that refutes Rad's points, including cited references. Meanwhile, Rad waxes poetic about his personal beliefs without any supporting evidence, except some selectively quoted Bible verses, and 50 lbs of mudslinging.

I suspect that Rad falls firmly under the category of False Christian, as well.

The intellectual level on this site isn't very high. At least not a high as I expected.. Actually, the lowest I have seen in a website for philosophy.

You fit in very niocely I might add.

[Radrook]

Originally posted by zaayrdragon
Now I'm Al Pacino... Great. I went from an innocent Pagan to the Beast to Al Pacino all in one day.

Next someone's gonna call me Archie Bunker!


Dream on.

[Radrook]

Originally posted by Doctor X


Coward

since he previously claimed he would debate his assertions:

Liar

--J.D.

--J.D.


In the namecalling mode again.
Very unfortunate since I was just about to respond decently and commence a serious discussion.

But, to each his own.
Cats meow.
Bulls bray.
Atheists drivel.
And you must namecall lest you suffer insomnia.


Oh well......

[RabbiSatan]

Originally posted by Radrook



In the namecalling mode again.
Very unfortunate since I was just about to respond decently and commence a serious discussion.

But, to each his own.
Cats meow.
Bulls bray.
Atheists drivel.
And you must namecall lest you suffer insomnia.


Oh well......

Right - just as you accused me of being a satanist without any proof to smear me and saying that Doctor X doesn't post anything of worth, and where your points have been debunked left, right, and center?

Dream on Radrook.

[The Cats Venm]

Originally posted by Radrook


Maybe a more sensible killing to your lliking like Hiroshima and Dresdren? Now that was real sensible from an atheistic standpoint. All those souls that were supposed to become disembodied and yet nothing was seen going heavenward or hellward except maybe ashes and dust.

Makes an avowed atheist become teary eyed with satisfaction.

Wow, that is an impressive piece of slander.

You don't honestly see atheists that way, do you?


I'm not trying to defend Ken though, his insults are as worthless and immature as anyones.

[Radrook]

Originally posted by RabbiSatan


Right - just as you accused me of being a satanist without any proof to smear me and saying that Doctor X doesn't post anything of worth, and where your points have been debunked left, right, and center?

Dream on Radrook.

You sure seemed to enjoy identifying with Lucifer.
So I thought I was paying you a compliment.


Debunked? L O L W R O F

In your universe perhaps.
Certainly not in my universae my friend.

[Radrook]

Originally posted by The Cats Venm


Wow, that is an impressive piece of slander.

You don't honestly see atheists that way, do you?


I'm not trying to defend Ken though, his insults are as worthless and immature as anyones.


Atheists have absolutely no restraints to stop them from proceeding as they see fit. So why should I assume the best?
Most atheists also are so engrossed with Canaan to give any thought to Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki or care very much for that matter. At least I never have seen atheists attack the acts as immoralk or express any special horror in relation to these things. When you mention these thinfgs to them, they focus you right back on canaan.

It is an obse=ssion I think.
Sort of like impulsive handwashing characteristic of OCD.

[Radrook]

Originally posted by Doctor X
Someone tell the Liar et Coward that this:



is contradicted by the Bible.

What the hell. . . .

Please to meet you! Hope you can guess my name!

This is quoted from Forsyth's The Old Enemy: Satan and the Combat Myth

. . . the myth alluded to in Isaiah looks like a blending of the Ugaritic traditions with a story very much like the Phaethon myth; the three together look like variants, adapted to their several purposes, of one common rebel plot.

The following part of Isaiah's famous taunt represents the shades of the dead kings in Sheol, the Waste Land, greeting a new arrival. . . :



The ambitious thoughts of the rebel allude to some figure like the Ugaritic Athtar, who also went up to the "reaches of Zaphon" to challenge the king (though Baal, not El, in the versions we have), and the name of this mythological rebel, "Shining One, Son of Dawn," makes him an exact equivalent of the Greek Phaethon.

Shahar [Even we cannot render the transliterations with "." below letters. This is close.--Ed.], in various Hebrew contexts, preserves some of its old mythological meaning as a feminine dawn goddess ["Ps. 108.2; 110.3, 139.9, in which dawn has wings and can fly. . . ." from footnote.--Ed.], and the original of this feminine dawn may well have been the Indo-European goddess Usas, the Heos of Homer and Hesiod, perhaps blended now with Semitic Ishtar. Her son, Helel, may possibly be the sun itself, and indeed Shahar may mean the rising sun, according to an older school of thought, or Helel may be an allusion to the planet Venus, as most modern commentators on the passage believe. Whether or not the composer of the Isaiah passage made this explicit identification, the Greek translators of the Septuagint certainly did, since their translation of Helel ben Shahar as Heosphoros ho proi anatellon clearly combines the astrolonomical identification with Hesiod's Hesophoros, son of Heos, the dawn-bringer, Venus. The Greek was in turn rendered by the Latin vulgate as Lucifer, qui mane oriebaris, and the name has stuck to the rebel ever since.

Whether he has a specific original in the period, or whether he is the generic representative of all such kings--a more likely assumption--this particular
Babylonian king apparently led a glorious life, but he is here aligned with the upstart rebel, . . . . . . and the redactor of this text, the man responsible for its inclusion in the Isaiah scroll, has no doubts about who this is. He introduces the poem with the following prose words addressed to the Israelites: "When Yahweh has given you rest from your pain and turmoil and the hard service with which you were made to serve, you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon."

It is generally agreed that the poem we are discussing does not come from the genuine Isaiah of Jerusalem, the great eight-century prophet.

--J. "I'm a Man of Wealth and Taste" D.

References:

Forsyth N. The Old Enemy: Satan and the Combat Myth. Princeton: 1987.

Clifford RJ. The Cosmic Mountain in Canaan and the Old Testament. Harvard University Press: 1972.

Kaiser O. Isaiah 13-39: A Commentary. Westminster: 1974.

References to Urdu, Zanzibar, Eridu, Baluba, or allegations of having seen the to the beautific vision and referennces to any other extrabiblical sources are totally irreelevant to me.

I only accept YHWH Holy Bible as my ultimate source of authority.
Anmd it is to him alone to whom I will render sacred service.

So going extrabiblical on me will get you nowhere in my book. That is assuming of course that you want to get somewhere in my book, Which might not be the case since I have absolutely no interest in getting anywhere in yours. If you get my drift.

[RabbiSatan]

Originally posted by Radrook
You sure seemed to enjoy identifying with Lucifer.
So I thought I was paying you a compliment.

No - that was a strawman that you constructed up in a pathetic attempt to smear me and not address my points - as zaayrdragon pointed out to you - One cannot be an Atheist and a satanist - they are contradiction in terms.

Debunked? L O L W R O F

Atheists have absolutely no restraints to stop them from proceeding as they see fit. So why should I assume the best?

Strawman - you assume that religion has a monopoly on religion, that morality comes from God - and thus, that atheists have no morals and have no restraints from commiting acts of genocide.

We have shown you that that is false - the US prison statistics disagree with you, Yahweh gave you an excellent example on the first page - and since atheists are soo imoral - why aren't we all outside commiting crimes?

Most atheists also are so engrossed with Canaan to give any thought to Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki or care very much for that matter.

At least I never have seen atheists attack the acts as immoralk or express any special horror in relation to these things. When you mention these thinfgs to them, they focus you right back on canaan

That is because most Christians claim that their "God" is omnibenevolent, which is directly contradicted in the Bible, as has been pointed out. We aren't "talking" about Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and other recent horrors of war because they don't pertain to the discussion about God and his contradictory actions in the Bible.

In your universe perhaps.
Certainly not in my universae my friend.

Indeed - I'm living in the real one - yours is quite imaginery.

[Radrook]

Originally posted by RabbiSatan


No - that was a strawman that you constructed up in a pathetic attempt to smear me and not address my points - as zaayrdragon pointed out to you - One cannot be an Atheist and a satanist - they are contradiction in terms.



Strawman - you assume that religion has a monopoly on religion, that morality comes from God - and thus, that atheists have no morals and have no restraints from commiting acts of genocide.

We have shown you that that is false - the US prison statistics disagree with you, Yahweh gave you an excellent example on the first page - and since atheists are soo imoral - why aren't we all outside commiting crimes?



That is because most Christians claim that their "God" is omnibenevolent, which is directly contradicted in the Bible, as has been pointed out. We aren't "talking" about Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and other recent horrors of war because they don't pertain to the discussion about God and his contradictory actions in the Bible.



Indeed - I'm living in the real one - yours is quite imaginery.

The only one on this whole site sporting ridiculous horns on his head is you. With all due respect but how can you expect anyone to take you seriously with that ludicrous avatar? After all, spirits don't have horns, carry farming tools, and bray. At least not the ones I read about. Maytbe the ones you personally hallucinate about do. But one should not confuse hallucination with reality. It wrecks credibility.

The reason slaughterings today don't pertain is because you approve of them or really don't give them much thought. Maybe cause my country righht or wrong but my country is your motto. . To me that smacks of hipocrisy.

I mean, kids are kids you know?


Nice try but no cigar.
I trust a person who has some guidelines more than I do one who can set any guidelines he wants whenever he wants and for whatever reason he wants.

Atheist fall into that unpredictable category.One moment thay are crying bloody murder about kids getting killed thousands of years ago. The next they are telling you they don'y give a frogs fat ass one way or the other.

So no thanks.
Me no trust.;)

[Radrook]

Originally posted by RabbiSatan


No - that was a strawman that you constructed up in a pathetic attempt to smear me and not address my points - as zaayrdragon pointed out to you - One cannot be an Atheist and a satanist - they are contradiction in terms.



Strawman - you assume that religion has a monopoly on religion, that morality comes from God - and thus, that atheists have no morals and have no restraints from commiting acts of genocide.

We have shown you that that is false - the US prison statistics disagree with you, Yahweh gave you an excellent example on the first page - and since atheists are soo imoral - why aren't we all outside commiting crimes?



That is because most Christians claim that their "God" is omnibenevolent, which is directly contradicted in the Bible, as has been pointed out. We aren't "talking" about Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and other recent horrors of war because they don't pertain to the discussion about God and his contradictory actions in the Bible.



Indeed - I'm living in the real one - yours is quite imaginery.

The only one on this whole site sporting ridiculous horns on his head is you. With all due respect but how can you expect anyone to take you seriously with that ludicrous avatar? After all, spirits don't have horns, carry farming tools, and bray. At least not the ones I read about. Maytbe the ones you personally hallucinate about do. But one should not confuse hallucination with reality. It wrecks credibility.

The reason slaughterings today don't pertain is because you approve of them or really don't give them much thought. Maybe cause my country righht or wrong but my country is your motto. . To me that smacks of hipocrisy.

I mean, kids are kids you know?


Nice try but no cigar.
I trust a person who has some guidelines more than I do one who can set any guidelines he wants whenever he wants and for whatever reason he wants.

Atheist fall into that unpredictable category.One moment thay are crying bloody murder about kids getting killed thousands of years ago. The next they are telling you they don'y give a frogs fat ass one way or the other.

So no thanks.
Me no trust.;)

[Radrook]

Originally posted by Ossai
Radrook
Since it was Christians that ordered and carried out the bombings then I’m assuming the You people is referring to them.

Ossai

I don't consider people who incinierate inncent people Christians.
I lump them in with the atheists, agnostics and satanists.

[The Cats Venm]

Originally posted by Radrook



Atheists have absolutely no restraints to stop them from proceeding as they see fit. So why should I assume the best?

Atheists have the restraint of living on a planet with other people, animals, etc. They have the restraint of mortality. They have the restraint of desiring to live the most comfortable life possible. They have the restraints of their conscience.

They have the same restraints as any other person on earth

You should assume no more or less than you do for anyone else.


Most atheists also are so engrossed with Canaan to give any thought to Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki or care very much for that matter. At least I never have seen atheists attack the acts as immoralk or express any special horror in relation to these things. When you mention these thinfgs to them, they focus you right back on canaan.

Could that be because the topic only comes up when discussing religion? Specifically, when you mention D/H/N, during a discussion about Canaan? Why does one have to go out of their way to express special horror, when they would rather get back to the subject at hand?

By the way, so you don't lump me in with the immoral atheists, yes, D/H/N are horrible events. They are black marks in human history and we should endeavour to never repeat them.

One of the things that likely lead to those events was the demonizing of ones opponents. It is easier to hurt or kill someone when you see them as less than a person. When you assume all atheists are evil and out to get you or your religion, you are making that same mistake.

And besides, I thought Christianity was a religion of love and tolerance?

[RabbiSatan]

Originally posted by Radrook
The only one on this whole site sporting ridiculous horns on his head is you. With all due respect but how can you expect anyone to take you seriously with that ludicrous avatar? After all, spirits don't have horns, carry farming tools, and bray. At least not the ones I read about. Maytbe the ones you personally hallucinate about do. But one should not confuse hallucination with reality. It wrecks credibility.

We had this discussion before - which you failed to back up your assertion that I was a satanist miserably. My name and Avatar are ironic depictions of my religious contempt.

The reason slaughterings today don't pertain is because you approve of them or really don't give them much thought.

No - they do not pertain because we are discussing God's contradictory nature in the Bible.

Please, show us where Atheists are pleased that millions of people die in these horrors of war, since that is what you claim. Where is your evidence to back this up?

Nice try but no cigar.

Your failiure to address my points are noted - You're just as predictable.

I'll repeat them again:

"Strawman - you assume that religion has a monopoly on religion, that morality comes from God - and thus, that atheists have no morals and have no restraints from commiting acts of genocide.

We have shown you that that is false - the US prison statistics disagree with you, Yahweh gave you an excellent example on the first page - and since atheists are soo imoral - why aren't we all outside commiting crimes?"

I trust a person who has some guidelines more than I do one who can set any guidelines he wants whenever he wants and for whatever reason he wants.

My point from above still pertains to this - If Atheists can "set any guildlines" they want - why aren't we all going out on homicidal rampages? This tells you that Morality is independant of religion.

Atheist fall into that unpredictable category.One moment thay are crying bloody murder about kids getting killed thousands of years ago.

That is because you claim God is Omnibenevolent - which, even in his holy book, he is doing anything but being Omnibenevolent.

The next they are telling you they don'y give a frogs fat ass one way or the other.

Show us where we "don't [sic] give a frog's fat ass" about the recent horrors of war.

[Radrook]

Originally posted by Navigator
You christians should grow up, then maybe this kind of senseless killing won't happen.

I personally lump people who incinerate others in that savage way in the same category as Satanists, Atheists, and Agnostics.
In MY book they are alkl the same. No difference whatsoever from where I stand.

Maybe cause they behave devilish? ;)

[Radrook]

Originally posted by RabbiSatan
[B]
[quote]
We had this discussion before - which you failed to back up your assertion that I was a satanist miserably. My name and Avatar are ironic depictions of my religious contempt.

I apologized.
What more do you require?
Crucifiction?



No - they do not pertain because we are discussing God's contradictory nature in the Bible.

The real question from where I stand is why you harp so much on that and seem so contented with what your government did. That you see contradiction in the Bibnle--OK. Both of us can live with that. Well, at leas at I can.




Please, show us where Atheists are pleased that millions of people die in these horrors of war, since that is what you claim. Where is your evidence to back this up?[quote]

Just an impression you people give me in the general way in which you people respond to the Dresden bombing. Not to mention Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I am allowed to get a general impression now and them without having atheists demand reams of documentation for these impressions.


[quote]
Your failiure to address my points are noted - You're just as predictable.

Good.
I don't like unpredictable people.
They make me uneasy.
I am allowed that?
Feeling uneasy with people I consider unpredictable--right?



I'll repeat them again:

"Strawman - you assume that religion has a monopoly on religion, that morality comes from God - and thus, that atheists have no morals and have no restraints from commiting acts of genocide.

We have shown you that that is false - the US prison statistics disagree with you, Yahweh gave you an excellent example on the first page - and since atheists are soo imoral - why aren't we all outside commiting crimes?"

Maybe because the time is not ripe for it.
Neither is all crime committed outside.
Plenty of crime is committed by atheists in offices at the job and at home.



My point from above still pertains to this - If Atheists can "set any guildlines" they want - why aren't we all going out on homicidal rampages? This tells you that Morality is independant of religion.

I never said it weren't.
That is a nice scarecrow you set up in my name to attract your vultures.



That is because you claim God is Omnibenevolent - which, even in his holy book, he is doing anything but being Omnibenevolent.


That should ruffle your feathers or make you get your panties all up in a bunch.

Simply reject my beliefs and be gone.
Vamoose,
As they say in the ole west.

The problem is that instead it sets you to jaw.




;)

[Z]

Maybe because you are an ignorant a$$hat?

Yes, that appears to be the case.

Well, since you only accept the Book of Lies as your evidence, there is no arguing with you . You turn your back on logic, reason, and reality, and embrace ignorance, fallacy, and fantasy.

More power to you... may your illusionary world bring you happiness.

THIS is EXACTLY why people of sense and reason should fear someone like you - because you DO refuse any source other than your mis-interpreted and often contradictory Book of Ignorance, rather than learning about the reality of the world. This is why a priest suffocated a boy with autism, and why millions have died IN THE NAME OF CHRISTIANITY.

Just because you decide that someone committing murders isn't a Christian, doesn't make it so. Just because YOU decide that anyone who doesn't believe as you do is wrong, doesn't make it so.

You have proven, in this thread, that you no longer have a grasp on reality, and are therefore incapable of debate, discussion, or even rational thought.

Therefore, all of your 'points' are hereby declared invalid as a result of your mental illness and inability to deal with reality, and any future points you should wish to make will be seen in the light of one whose credibility is seriously lacking.

Obviously, what I say has no meaning to you; however, to the thinking, rational, and reasoning creatures who may occasion to read these posts, they will, through my works and the works of others, understand that you are a radical, a kook, and a fool, unable to see truth for the brainwashing you have embraced.

I officially wash my hands of you, as I have I.I., and as I am about to Iacchus.

(Not that I'm going to stop responding to you - too stubborn and stupid to do that. But from now on, I deal with you under the understanding that you are mentally deficient and probably wrong)

[Radrook]

Originally posted by Benguin


Well no point really, he's given up justifying his assertions and just resorted to mudslinging.

I usually find christians happy to debate their faith in a polite and rational way. Makes me think this guy is just pretending in order to troll us.

He seems to oscillate between insisting his intrepretation is the valid one and then refusing to define the interpretation, I'm sure I've seen that from someone else on this board a while back.

Heyho, it's the weekend so I think I'll take up nailing jelly (jello for the americans) to the ceiling as it is less futile.

I can sustain happiness quite easily without debating.
Is that normal?

Americans?

Ah yes!
The jerry Springer show!

Cheers!

[Benguin]

Do you actually believe in hell then?

[RabbiSatan]

Originally posted by Radrook
I apologized.
What more do you require?
Crucifiction?

For you to stop your silly assertions when you cannot address my points.

The real question from where I stand is why you harp so much on that and seem so contented with what your government did.

Please show me where I was "content" with what my "Governments" did - Curiously, why do you assume to know which nationalities I belong to?

That you see contradiction in the Bibnle--OK. Both of us can live with that. Well, at leas at I can.

I can live with it because I do not believe in such contradictory fairy tales in the first place - you can because you simply double think.

Good.
I don't like unpredictable people.
They make me uneasy.
I am allowed that?
Feeling uneasy with people I consider unpredictable--right?

You still fail to address my points

I'll repeat them again:

"Strawman - you assume that religion has a monopoly on religion, that morality comes from God - and thus, that atheists have no morals and have no restraints from commiting acts of genocide.

We have shown you that that is false - the US prison statistics disagree with you, Yahweh gave you an excellent example on the first page - and since atheists are soo imoral - why aren't we all outside commiting crimes?"

Maybe because the time is not ripe for it.
Neither is all crime committed outside.
Plenty of crime is committed by atheists in offices at the job and at home.

Then please, do you have any statistics showing that Atheists commit more crimes than Theists?

I never said it weren't.

But you said so right here.

"I personally lump people who incinerate others in that savage way in the same category as Satanists, Atheists, and Agnostics.
In MY book they are alkl the same. No difference whatsoever from where I stand.

Maybe cause they behave devilish? "

You're starting to contradict yourself.

[Radrook]

Originally posted by zaayrdragon
Maybe because you are an ignorant a$$hat?

Yes, that appears to be the case.

Well, since you only accept the Book of Lies as your evidence, there is no arguing with you . You turn your back on logic, reason, and reality, and embrace ignorance, fallacy, and fantasy.

More power to you... may your illusionary world bring you happiness.

THIS is EXACTLY why people of sense and reason should fear someone like you - because you DO refuse any source other than your mis-interpreted and often contradictory Book of Ignorance, rather than learning about the reality of the world. This is why a priest suffocated a boy with autism, and why millions have died IN THE NAME OF CHRISTIANITY.

Just because you decide that someone committing murders isn't a Christian, doesn't make it so. Just because YOU decide that anyone who doesn't believe as you do is wrong, doesn't make it so.

You have proven, in this thread, that you no longer have a grasp on reality, and are therefore incapable of debate, discussion, or even rational thought.

Therefore, all of your 'points' are hereby declared invalid as a result of your mental illness and inability to deal with reality, and any future points you should wish to make will be seen in the light of one whose credibility is seriously lacking.

Obviously, what I say has no meaning to you; however, to the thinking, rational, and reasoning creatures who may occasion to read these posts, they will, through my works and the works of others, understand that you are a radical, a kook, and a fool, unable to see truth for the brainwashing you have embraced.

I officially wash my hands of you, as I have I.I., and as I am about to Iacchus.

(Not that I'm going to stop responding to you - too stubborn and stupid to do that. But from now on, I deal with you under the understanding that you are mentally deficient and probably wrong)

Yada yada yada yada yakety yaketi yaketi bah blah blah blah!

Are you female? LOL

Anyway, I don't have to justify my beliefs to you since to me
you are nothing!

Well. almost nothing anyway since I am accountable to one and you are not he. If you were he I'd blow my brains out rather than accept you as my God. Which speaks volumes in refeece to my evaluation of your ideas.

As for your insults, I soiimply take that as evidence of your nature.
As I said, a dog must bark.
A pig must oink.
Bulls must bray.
And people like you insult.
So follow your nature.

[Radrook]

Originally posted by RabbiSatan


For you to stop your silly assertions when you cannot address my points.



Please show me where I was "content" with what my "Governments" did - Curiously, why do you assume to know which nationalities I belong to?



I can live with it because I do not believe in such contradictory fairy tales in the first place - you can because you simply double think.



You still fail to address my points

I'll repeat them again:

"Strawman - you assume that religion has a monopoly on religion, that morality comes from God - and thus, that atheists have no morals and have no restraints from commiting acts of genocide.

We have shown you that that is false - the US prison statistics disagree with you, Yahweh gave you an excellent example on the first page - and since atheists are soo imoral - why aren't we all outside commiting crimes?"



Then please, do you have any statistics showing that Atheists commit more crimes than Theists?



But you said so right here.

"I personally lump people who incinerate others in that savage way in the same category as Satanists, Atheists, and Agnostics.
In MY book they are alkl the same. No difference whatsoever from where I stand.

Maybe cause they behave devilish? "

You're starting to contradict yourself.

Nahhhhhh!
Just the same ole habit that you people have of subtracting and adding meaning where you see fit. That's all.

[Z]

While the blindly faithful must continue to walk into walls.

Follow your nature.

[Z]

Double-post... Either that, or I really like to 'hear myself talk'.

[Radrook]

Originally posted by Benguin
Do you actually believe in hell then?

That was somthing that you people made up to scare the flock into forking over the lettuce.

[Z]

There's no point, Benguin - his beliefs change and rearrange at his whim. The Bible is nonsense, and it spawns people like this - shovellers of nonsense.

[Radrook]

Originally posted by zaayrdragon
While the blindly faithful must continue to walk into walls.

Follow your nature.

Funnies you should sa-say that.
That be exactallaciously what is said about yous.

[Radrook]

Originally posted by zaayrdragon
There's no point, Benguin - his beliefs change and rearrange at his whim. The Bible is nonsense, and it spawns people like this - shovellers of nonsense.

Funny you should say that.
That be xactly what yous do.
Xcepts ya more practiced at it.
Oh well.
Guess now ya goes back to yer pitchforkings.
;)

[Radrook]

Originally posted by zaayrdragon
Double-post... Either that, or I really like to 'hear myself talk'.

Maybe its the involuntary twitchings that does it.;)

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Radrook

Maybe its the involuntary twitchings that does it.;) Ad hominem.

[Gulliamo]

Originally posted by Radrook
God created an angel called Lucifer.
As all angels, he was rightious.
Then he decided to rebel and became an adversary and a slanderer. I thought one of the "big" advantages of being human was free will. I thought angels did not have free will. If angels do not have free will the how could Lucifer become a slanderer? Unless of course it was ordered to by god...

[Z]

Actually I do have an involuntary twitch in my right i.e. mouse hand, the result of a botched surgery to remove a ganglion cyst.

However, I expect it's more the result of whatever is FREAKING WRONG with the board right now... Seems I'm having to post two or three times to get it to go through...

[Benguin]

Originally posted by Radrook


That was somthing that you people made up to scare the flock into forking over the lettuce.

I'm not sure I understand the salad reference, but thanks for answering a straight question for once.

I'm not persuaded you are someone other poersons I've met (who claim to be christian) would acknowledge as a christian.

Assuming the ever changing spectrum of views you represent are genuine and not just troll-rant, do you believe the bulk of christianity has the right to describe itself as such?

[thaiboxerken]

Originally posted by Radrook


Maybe a more sensible killing to your lliking like Hiroshima and Dresdren? Now that was real sensible from an atheistic standpoint. All those souls that were supposed to become disembodied and yet nothing was seen going heavenward or hellward except maybe ashes and dust.

Makes an avowed atheist become teary eyed with satisfaction.

This is a strawman and an insult, atheism did not cause these things to happen, and I don't think many (if any) atheists were happy to see it happen. You are a freaking idiot and an ass.

[thaiboxerken]

Originally posted by thaiboxerken
I find it rather weird that credentials are required if anyone makes the claim of being of certain groups but none are required when claiming to be Christian.

Rad, what are the objective criteria used to determine if a person is a christian or just claiming to be a christian?

This phenomenon seems to dovetail very nicely with the miscionception that the Bible can be interprested accurately a million and one ways.

And what is the only accurate interpretation of the bible? Who are the only people that can accurately interpret it? What credentials must on have to be considered able to accurately interpret the bible? Why is it that the bible itself says that it can be understood by the simple?


So a christian kills someone because of stupidity -> Ergo all christians should grow up. That's the worst reasoning I have encountered for a while.

Yes, because it's the childish beliefs of christians that cause this type of atrocity.


So, Rad. Why did you not answer my questions above?

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by thaiboxerken

So, Rad. Why did you not answer my questions above? Originally posted by thaiboxerken

This is a strawman and an insult, atheism did not cause these things to happen, and I don't think many (if any) atheists were happy to see it happen. You are a freaking idiot and an ass. Grow up.

[Benguin]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Grow up.

Whilst I agree with your sentiments that the insults are inappropriate, I find radrook's assertion that people who do not believe in what he does (whatever that is) are apologists for the atrocities he names not only more insulting, but morally repugnant.

Especially when he refuses to explain why he ascribes what happened in Dresden/Hiroshima to atheists.

I share ThaiBoxerKen's frustration and sentiment, if not his impatience. But give it time.

[Gulliamo]

Originally posted by Radrook
God created an angel called Lucifer.
As all angels, he was rightious.[righteous?]
Then he decided to rebel and became an adversary and a slanderer.I was of the impression that one of the big advantages of being human was free will. As opposed to angels who do NOT have free will. If an angel does not have free will then the only way for it to become a "slanderer" is for god to instruct it to do so. Either that or god isn't really omni-powerful...

[dmarker]

Hitler was Catholic like Stalin.


Originally posted by zaayrdragon
The history of our world is full of repugnant atrocities... and the scales tilt inexorably to the side of atrocities by the Faithful against atrocities by the Athiests.

Need I even bother with the Inquisition, the Burning Times, the Crusades, the last couple of thousand years in the Middle East, 9-11, and so forth? And of those examples which I do not know had a faithful person or persons at the helm, I don't know that they were atheists either, such as Waco, WWI, WWII, Vietnam, Korea, Oklahoma City, Hiroshima, Nagasaki? What were the religions leanings of those responsible in these terrible atrocities?

And what about Hitler? He obviously had something against Jews - but was he some form of Christian himself, or an atheist? I really don't know - funny, how I can be immersed in Holocaust culture for so long and not know such a thing.

Even going back to Rad's precious Book of Common Lies - er, Bible - look at the atrocities required by God of his chosen people, the least of which is mutilation of genitals, burning of animals, and warfare against other peoples.

So, which way are the scales tipped, Rad?

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Benguin

Whilst I agree with your sentiments that the insults are inappropriate, I find radrook's assertion that people who do not believe in what he does (whatever that is) are apologists for the atrocities he names not only more insulting, but morally repugnant.The only problem is, this is not the only place where insults have been tossed about, to say the least.

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by dmarker

Hitler was Catholic like Stalin.Was he a practicing Catholic? Did he go to church? Albeit I did hear he said something about the Jews being a blight to civilation while making references to Catholicism, he hardly seemed like the religious type. Unless of course the word (religious) fanatic applies.

[thaiboxerken]

Hitler went to various Catholic churches in Germany.This site has alot of infor and pictures.

http://www.nobeliefs.com/Hitler1.htm

Now, you can think that he didn't really believe in Jesus and god, but he certainly inspired a nation of christians to fight and try to exterminate the Jews.

[Doctor X]

Benguin:

It is my happy experience that most Christians are willing to discuss their beliefs to a point. Perhaps your "no true Christian" applies to our little Coward

Since he now complains about insults--having spewed pages of argumenta ad hominem in lieu of argument, he may now add Hypocrite to his laurels.

Yet, does he improve:

References to Urdu, Zanzibar, Eridu, Baluba, or allegations of having seen the to the beautific vision and referennces to any other extrabiblical sources are totally irreelevant to me.

Since none of that is in the actual post, he is now reconfirmed as a Liar.

I only accept YHWH Holy Bible as my ultimate source of authority.

Excellent!

Then he must accept YHWH when he said:

Exod 22:28-29 "You shall not delay your fulfillment and your flowing.
"You shall give me the firstborn of your sons.
"You shall do this to your ox and to your sheep: Seven days it will be with its mother. On the eighth day you shall give it to me."


and:

Ezek 20:25-26 Moreover I gave them statues that were not good and ordinances by which they could not have life; and I defiled them through their very gifts in making them offer by fire all their first-born, that I might horrify them; I did it that they might know I am YHWH.

So going extrabiblical on me will get you nowhere in my book.

Isaiah is rather "intrabiblical."

Perhaps if the Coward et Liar et Hypocrite would actually read the biblical texts he would cease to make a greater fool of himself.

Someone inform him that he should not show up to a duel armed only with a damp toothbrush and an ignorant mouth.

--J.D.

[Doctor X]

[Poof!--Ed.]

[Navigator]

Hitler's Christianity is open to debate?

You are either Christian or you are not.
There isn't such thing as a form of Christian.
Neither is there a convenient middle ground as many
people hope.


Matthew 12:30
"He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters.

Greetings Radrook

I am pretty sure that in the quotations credited to Jesus, he does not refer to his followers as "Christians"
He specifically refers to them as "Disciples" which is an advancement in terms.

Paul seems to be the one to have coined that phrase.
Jesus is quoted as saying "Judge Not" (but of course, seems to have fallen into that stance now and then...such is human nature...guess that is where grace comes into it...
Anyhoo...Paul I read as extremely judgemental, and not afriad to call individuals this and that as it suited him.
Certainly put women in their place.
(Don;t think he hung out with prostitues neither)
So...I think those who call themselves "Christians" follow Paul more than they do Jesus.


"He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters.

What does that quote signify for you personally?

Not all who claim to be spiritully rich Christians are.
There are people who make such claims--as Hitler himself did--but who are in very sad spiritual condition. Jesus identified them by their deeds or their behavior.

Well I for one wouldn;t curse a fig tree on a bad hair day...kinda like well why didn;t JC just use his magic and pull figs from his pocket, if he were that hungry?
Behaviour huh?


15. I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16. So, because you are lukewarm--neither hot nor cold--I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17. You say, 'I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.' But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked.

I don't think this kind of attitude on observations re others is designed to win friends and influence people.
It does help me understand Christian attitudes (and attitudes in general regarding judging others ).

The thing about waiting for Jesus to come back and kick butt, is that it convieniently allows for individuals to shirk off from being nice and doing nice.
What are you doing with your personal energy in advancing Unity and Wholeness?

[Radrook]

Originally posted by thaiboxerken
Hitler went to various Catholic churches in Germany.This site has alot of infor and pictures.

http://www.nobeliefs.com/Hitler1.htm

Now, you can think that he didn't really believe in Jesus and god, but he certainly inspired a nation of christians to fight and try to exterminate the Jews.


SIGH!

Anyone who can inspire professed Christians to murder is a Christian
Hitler inspired professed Christians to murder.
Hitler was a Christian.

Ability to mptivate others proves one is a Christian.
Hitler had the ability to motivate others
Hitler was a Christian.

Church attentance proves one is a Christian.
Hitler attended church.
Hitler was a Christian.


All of your conclusions are false because all your premesis are untrue. Your premesis are untrue because they go completely contrary to what the Bible tells us is a Christian..

For example, Christians do not murder or try to motivate other to murder.

The Bible tells us clearly that murderers such as Hitle was belong to Satan--not God.

John 8:44
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

1 John 3:12
Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother's were righteous.

Also, being present at a religious building means nothing.
Many criminals have been known to attend religious services.
In fact, many criminal have been part of the clergy who lived in so-called sacred buildings all their criminal lives.

Yet you put it forth as proof of authentic Christianhood.


BTW
I am unable to edit.
So if there are typos, I guess that's the way it is.

[Radrook]

Originally posted by Navigator
[B]


Hitler's Christianity is open to debate?

You are either Christian or you are not.
There isn't such thing as a form of Christian.
Neither is there a convenient middle ground as many
people hope.


Matthew 12:30
"He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters.

Greetings Radrook
[quote]
I am pretty sure that in the quotations credited to Jesus, he does not refer to his followers as "Christians"
He specifically refers to them as "Disciples" which is an advancement in terms.

What is the poiint here?
A christian is by default a disciple and a disciple is by default a Christian.


Paul seems to be the one to have coined that phrase.
Jesus is quoted as saying "Judge Not" (but of course, seems to have fallen into that stance now and then...such is human nature...guess that is where grace comes into it...

As in all literature, context is essential to understanding.

Peck and choosing at will can confuse the reader and those whom the reader chooses to tell his henpecked version of what he has read to.


Anyhoo...Paul I read as extremely judgemental, and not afriad to call individuals this and that as it suited him.
Certainly put women in their place.
(Don;t think he hung out with prostitues neither)
So...I think those who call themselves "Christians" follow Paul more than they do Jesus.

You are free to think whatever you want to think, interpreete in any way you wish to interpret, and put it forth as your opinion. Why you feel that I am interested in your opinion is another matter.


"He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters.

What does that quote signify for you personally?

Why ask?
Simply form your own unique arbitrary opinion , put it forth as fact and rest easy.

: )



Well I for one wouldn;t curse a fig tree on a bad hair day


Then don't curse a fig tree and if you do--try using magic instead to see how far you get. You are well within your citizen rights to curse any tree you wish without my permission--you know? So be my guest.



I don't think this kind of attitude on observations re others is designed to win friends and influence people.

Are you always trying to make friends with EVERYONE?
Only as fool would do something like that so I doubt that you are.
Yet you feel that Jesus was interested in winning friends but was so stupid that he did not know how and so stupidly said such things based on his stupidity?

Very interesting in a weird sort of way.



The thing about waiting for Jesus to come back and kick butt, is that it convieniently allows for individuals to shirk off from being nice and doing nice.

So Christians are motivated to be nasty because Jesus hasn't arrived yet?

This is hilarious!



What are you doing with your personal energy in advancing Unity and Wholeness?

My personal life?
Excuse me but LOLWROF

None of your business.

Oppppps.

Sorry

My bad! : (


BTW
Is this te place Jerry Springer gets his audience participants from?if it is not, he should.
There are a lot of good prospects here.

[Radrook]

Originally posted by Gulliamo
I thought one of the "big" advantages of being human was free will. I thought angels did not have free will. If angels do not have free will the how could Lucifer become a slanderer? Unless of course it was ordered to by god...


The Bible does not teach that angels lack free will.
If they did they would not have been able to oppose God.
Yet they did and a significant portion of them still do.

[Radrook]

Originally posted by Gulliamo
I thought one of the "big" advantages of being human was free will. I thought angels did not have free will. If angels do not have free will the how could Lucifer become a slanderer? Unless of course it was ordered to by god...

God doesn't create robotic intelligent creatures.
Robotic intelligent creatures are imperfect from God's standpoint.
Neither does The Bible teach that angels lack free will.
If they did they would not have been able to oppose God.
Yet they did and a significant portion of them still do.




Revelation 12:9
The great dragon was hurled down–that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

[Radrook]

Originally posted by Benguin

Whilst I agree with your sentiments that the insults are inappropriate, I find radrook's assertion that people who do not believe in what he does (whatever that is) are apologists for the atrocities he names not only more insulting, but morally repugnant.


Not all persons who believe differently from what I believe--whatever that may be--approve of such atrocities. Ever here of pacifists?

[Z]

Rad, I don't think anyone here is taking your opinion of Bible verse seriously anymore. You spout off quite often about 'misinterpretation' and 'nitpicking' verse, but you yourself are seriously guilty of the same.

It's obvious that you either a) have never actually studied the Bible in-depth, or b) are so blinded by the opinion you've formed that you cannot see the plain truth. If a) then you are a hypocrite and liar, and if b) then you are ignorant and/or psychotic.

Your interpretation of the Bible text is blatantly wrong, in several cases; although I doubt you can understand, as you refuse to look beyond the Bible for truth. The simple truth is, the Bible is even on the most superficial level, two books: the Old Testament, and the New. Each applies differently, and each is used differently; they cannot be looked at together as a 'whole'. Further, each Testament is comprised of individual books (Genesis, Job, Chronicles, et. al.). This isn't an arbitrary label for Bible Chapters; there are actual, distinct BOOKS. Each can only be treated individually, and in reference to each other with regards to looking for consistency or inconsitency.

Further, many Books have multiple authorship, and just examining Church records can reveal just how much these books have been altered, rearranged, omitted, included, etc. as the centuries has passed. Yet you cling to your NIV as if God spoke English to Adam, Moses, and Paul. You fail to consider even the simple truth that Human interaction with the Bible has made considerable changes as time has passed.

Was the Council of Nicea God-inspired, or was that a purely human artifice? If God-inspired, what does that mean, that women didn't have souls prior to the Council, and the Trinity was an afterthought?

At any rate, I don't know why I bother - you wear the helm of ignorance and the sword of falsehood, and will stumble through life blindly no matter what anyone says. I pity you.

[Radrook]

Originally posted by zaayrdragon

you are a hypocrite and liar, and if b) then you are ignorant and/or psychotic.

I pity you.


Sheeeeesh!
I thought I had closed the gates to the barn today.
Guess I was wrong.

[Radrook]

Originally posted by zaayrdragon


Maybe because you are an ignorant a$$hat?

Well, since you only accept the Book of Lies as your evidence, there is no arguing with you . .

THIS is EXACTLY why people of sense and reason should fear someone like you -

Therefore, all of your 'points' are hereby declared invalid as a result of your mental illness.......

I officially wash my hands of you, as I have I.I., and as I am about to Iacchus.


When you finish your ranting perhaps it would be wise to check into the nearest neigborhood cookoos nest for some shock therapy. But then again considering your present state of mental agitation you might shortv circuity the machine.

[Radrook]

Originally posted by zaayrdragon
.... The Bible is nonsense, and it spawns people like this - shovellers of nonsense.

Your problem is you need a new leash on life.

[Radrook]

Originally posted by Doctor X
Someone tell the Liar et Coward that this:

You must be very confident of your indispensability on this forum when you blatantly disregard firum rules this way. In my experience? I have found that such confidence is almost always ill conceived and usually provokes a very unpleasant response that ultimately serves to bring the assumer down to bitter reality.

It is a sobering experience but it serves to educate and refine if the person is willing to learn from it.

As to the accusations of cowardise, well, heh! Heh! in tyerems of debating I have no qualms. But then again I might hesitate with namecallers since I consider them basicvally irrational and I am rather averse to irrationality.

In terms of physical confrntations I have made absolutely sure in many a diverse way including martial arts and rigorous physical training that I am not at any disadvantage. So there too I have no qualms at all in that area.

So I suppose that you can bark, snarl, and froth at the snout as much as you feel you haveto at a given distance. No skin off my genberous nose. As long as it is at a required given distance--of course.

[Radrook]

Originally posted by Blue Monk


The causes of autism are unknown. There is certainly no evidence at all that it is caused by demons, elves or fairies.

An exorcism is a superstitious response to a complex medical condition that resulted in the death of a child.

I agree.
The priest was irresponsible.
So were the parents.
But maybe the parents had trie all other avenues including mwedical and this was their last desperate attempt to help.

[thaiboxerken]

Anyone who can inspire professed Christians to murder is a Christian
Hitler inspired professed Christians to murder.
Hitler was a Christian.

Ability to mptivate others proves one is a Christian.
Hitler had the ability to motivate others
Hitler was a Christian.

Church attentance proves one is a Christian.
Hitler attended church.
Hitler was a Christian.

STRAWMEN, I did not make the above statements or arguments. You are a dishonest liar, I thought that false-witness was a sin according to your religion. I guess you sin when you feel like it as long as you can defend your stupid religious beliefs.

No, we can't know for sure what Hitler actually believed, but he did state that he was christian, he attended christian churches, he talked to christians, he was friends with the Pope and many other catholic authorities, none of his actions are inconsistent with christianity and he inspired christians. The evidence is overwhelming, the odds are that Hitler was a christian.

But.. if Hitler wasn't christian, it was christians that he commanded, it was christians that did his bidding and they did it thinking that they were all doing the work of jesus and god. Christians tried to exterminate the jews, christians started WW2.


All of your conclusions are false because all your premesis are untrue. Your premesis are untrue because they go completely contrary to what the Bible tells us is a Christian..

For example, Christians do not murder or try to motivate other to murder.

False, the bible does not mention christianity at all. But it does order people to kill and it does promote murdering people of other beliefs.

The Bible tells us clearly that murderers such as Hitle was belong to Satan--not God.

True, but it also tells us murderers like Hitler are doing god's work.

Deut 13:6 "
If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die."


Also, being present at a religious building means nothing.
Many criminals have been known to attend religious services.
In fact, many criminal have been part of the clergy who lived in so-called sacred buildings all their criminal lives.

Yet you put it forth as proof of authentic Christianhood.

No one can know what a person actually believes, we can only guess based on their actions and words. Hitler's actions and words do not support your assertions. Hitler, and many christians at that time, did not like the Jews. This is because of the words of the apostle paul that is in the bible that condemn the jewish people. The bible does not consider killing people of other religions as murder. Many heroes of the bible killed nonbelievers and were praised for it.

[Radrook]

Originally posted by thaiboxerken


[quote]
STRAWMEN, I did not make the above statements or arguments. You are a dishonest liar, I thought that false-witness was a sin according to your religion. I guess you sin when you feel like it as long as you can defend your stupid religious beliefs.

You are projecting.
I do not provoke!

No, we can't know for sure what Hitler actually believed,


Tht's because you are not at the receiving end of his ant-semetic poilicies. Talk about hipcocracy!



[quote]but he did st

[Radrook]

Originally posted by thaiboxerken


[quote]
STRAWMEN, I did not make the above statements or arguments. You are a dishonest liar, I thought that false-witness was a sin according to your religion. I guess you sin when you feel like it as long as you can defend your stupid religious beliefs.

You are projecting.
I do not provoke!

No, we can't know for sure what Hitler actually believed,


Tht's because you are not at the receiving end of his ant-semetic poilicies. Talk about hipcocracy!



but he did state that he was christian, he attended christian churches, he talked to christians, he was friends with the Pope and many other catholic authorities, none of his actions are inconsistent with christianity

Wheeeee!
Wow!
That makes him a Christain alright!
What a load of steaming horse manure!
Tell that to the relatives of the people he had tortured via medical experiments and murdered and see what they say.




and he inspired christians.

OH, Of course!
You mean those innocent hob-nailed Gestapo goose-stepping sadists? Yeah? Christians huh? Uhuh! Uhuh!




The evidence is overwhelming, the odds are that Hitler was a christian.


This can't be happening man. This can't be happening.
This has to be some type of a nightmare where I am dreaming that I am interacting with some insane asylum inmates.



But.. if Hitler wasn't christian, it was christians that he commanded, it was christians that did his bidding and they did it thinking that they were all doing the work of jesus and god. Christians tried to exterminate the jews, christians started WW2.

Since when are you in higher authority to say who is and who is not Christain than Jesus himself? He was clear.



False, the bible does not mention christianity at all.

Ever consider standup comedy?
Preferably with a short mustache.
I'm sure that this is good material for your routine.
Should get loads of laughs.




But it does order people to kill and it does promote murdering people of other beliefs.

Your mind taints everything it reads with its purid contents.


No one can know what a person actually believes, we can only guess based on their actions and words. Hitler's actions and words do not support your assertions. Hitler, and many christians at that time, did not like the Jews.

Not like?
Howe very innofensive you describe it all. So they tortured, maimed and murdered and remained good Christians according to you. Very interesting.

Wonder if you would croak the same songl if one of his Gestapo agents were beating your legs into two bloody stumps while listenng to Beethoven.



This is because of the words of the apostle paul that is in the bible that condemn the jewish people. The bible does not consider killing people of other religions as murder. Many heroes of the bible killed nonbelievers and were praised for it.

You defend Hitler and blame it on Saint Paul.
What institution are you writing this stuff from?

[Radrook]

Originally posted by thaiboxerken


[quote]
STRAWMEN, I did not make the above statements or arguments. You are a dishonest liar, I thought that false-witness was a sin according to your religion. I guess you sin when you feel like it as long as you can defend your stupid religious beliefs.

You are projecting.
I do not provoke!

No, we can't know for sure what Hitler actually believed,


Tht's because you are not at the receiving end of his ant-semetic poilicies. Talk about hipcocracy!



but he did state that he was christian, he attended christian churches, he talked to christians, he was friends with the Pope and many other catholic authorities, none of his actions are inconsistent with christianity

Wheeeee!
Wow!
That makes him a Christain alright!
What a load of steaming horse manure!
Tell that to the relatives of the people he had tortured via medical experiments and murdered and see what they say.




and he inspired christians.

OH, Of course!
You mean those innocent hob-nailed Gestapo goose-stepping sadists? Yeah? Christians huh? Uhuh! Uhuh!




The evidence is overwhelming, the odds are that Hitler was a christian.


This can't be happening man. This can't be happening.
This has to be some type of a nightmare where I am dreaming that I am interacting with some insane asylum inmates.



But.. if Hitler wasn't christian, it was christians that he commanded, it was christians that did his bidding and they did it thinking that they were all doing the work of jesus and god. Christians tried to exterminate the jews, christians started WW2.

Since when are you in higher authority to say who is and who is not Christain than Jesus himself? He was clear.



False, the bible does not mention christianity at all.

Ever consider standup comedy?
Preferably with a short mustache.
I'm sure that this is good material for your routine.
Should get loads of laughs.




But it does order people to kill and it does promote murdering people of other beliefs.

Your mind taints everything it reads with its purid contents.


No one can know what a person actually believes, we can only guess based on their actions and words. Hitler's actions and words do not support your assertions. Hitler, and many christians at that time, did not like the Jews.

Not like?
Howe very innofensive you describe it all. So they tortured, maimed and murdered and remained good Christians according to you. Very interesting.

Wonder if you would croak the same songl if one of his Gestapo agents were beating your legs into two bloody stumps while listenng to Beethoven.



This is because of the words of the apostle paul that is in the bible that condemn the jewish people. The bible does not consider killing people of other religions as murder. Many heroes of the bible killed nonbelievers and were praised for it.

You defend Hitler and blame it on Saint Paul.
What institution are you writing this stuff from?
The heil Hitler Institution for the criminally propane?

[Radrook]

Originally posted by thaiboxerken


[quote]
STRAWMEN, I did not make the above statements or arguments. You are a dishonest liar, I thought that false-witness was a sin according to your religion. I guess you sin when you feel like it as long as you can defend your stupid religious beliefs.

You are projecting.
I do not provoke!

No, we can't know for sure what Hitler actually believed,


Tht's because you are not at the receiving end of his ant-semetic poilicies. Talk about hipcocracy!



but he did state that he was christian, he attended christian churches, he talked to christians, he was friends with the Pope and many other catholic authorities, none of his actions are inconsistent with christianity

Wheeeee!
Wow!
That makes him a Christain alright!
What a load of steaming horse manure!
Tell that to the relatives of the people he had tortured via medical experiments and murdered and see what they say.




and he inspired christians.

OH, Of course!
You mean those innocent hob-nailed Gestapo goose-stepping sadists? Yeah? Christians huh? Uhuh! Uhuh!




The evidence is overwhelming, the odds are that Hitler was a christian.


This can't be happening man. This can't be happening.
This has to be some type of a nightmare where I am dreaming that I am interacting with some insane asylum inmates.



But.. if Hitler wasn't christian, it was christians that he commanded, it was christians that did his bidding and they did it thinking that they were all doing the work of jesus and god. Christians tried to exterminate the jews, christians started WW2.

Since when are you in higher authority to say who is and who is not Christain than Jesus himself? He was clear.



False, the bible does not mention christianity at all.

Ever consider standup comedy?
Preferably with a short mustache.
I'm sure that this is good material for your routine.
Should get loads of laughs.




But it does order people to kill and it does promote murdering people of other beliefs.

Your mind taints everything it reads with its purid contents.


No one can know what a person actually believes, we can only guess based on their actions and words. Hitler's actions and words do not support your assertions. Hitler, and many christians at that time, did not like the Jews.

Not like?
Howe very innofensive you describe it all. So they tortured, maimed and murdered and remained good Christians according to you. Very interesting.

Wonder if you would croak the same songl if one of his Gestapo agents were beating your legs into two bloody stumps while listenng to Beethoven.



This is because of the words of the apostle paul that is in the bible that condemn the jewish people. The bible does not consider killing people of other religions as murder. Many heroes of the bible killed nonbelievers and were praised for it.

You defend Hitler and blame it on Saint Paul.
What institution are you writing this stuff from?
The heil Hitler Institution for the criminally inane?

[dmarker]

Going with the "No True Christian" argument, I see.




Originally posted by Radrook



SIGH!

Anyone who can inspire professed Christians to murder is a Christian
Hitler inspired professed Christians to murder.
Hitler was a Christian.

Ability to mptivate others proves one is a Christian.
Hitler had the ability to motivate others
Hitler was a Christian.

Church attentance proves one is a Christian.
Hitler attended church.
Hitler was a Christian.


All of your conclusions are false because all your premesis are untrue. Your premesis are untrue because they go completely contrary to what the Bible tells us is a Christian..

For example, Christians do not murder or try to motivate other to murder.

The Bible tells us clearly that murderers such as Hitle was belong to Satan--not God.

John 8:44
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

1 John 3:12
Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother's were righteous.

Also, being present at a religious building means nothing.
Many criminals have been known to attend religious services.
In fact, many criminal have been part of the clergy who lived in so-called sacred buildings all their criminal lives.

Yet you put it forth as proof of authentic Christianhood.


BTW
I am unable to edit.
So if there are typos, I guess that's the way it is.

[Doctor X]

The various database errors makes following the topics rather difficult.

Nevertheless:

Moi: Someone tell the Liar et Coward that this:

LCH: You must be very confident of your indispensability on this forum when you blatantly disregard firum rules this way.

It is not against the rules to recognize something for what it is. If the individual ceases Lying, ceases Running Away from arguments he does not like, particularly after boasting he can defeat them, and ceases whining about insults while insulting, he may garther more laudatory titles.

The responsibility remains his own.

Now for irony:

In my experience? I have found that such confidence is almost always ill conceived and usually provokes a very unpleasant response that ultimately serves to bring the assumer down to bitter reality.

Unless, of course, he continues to deny the reality of the texts and scholarship as the Liar et Coward et Hypocrite has hithertofore. [We cannot express adequately the glee he has now that he, at last, has found an excuse to use "hithertofore."--Ed.]

More irony and hypocrisy:

As to the accusations of cowardise, well, heh! Heh! in tyerems (sic) of debating I have no qualms. But then again I might hesitate with namecallers since I consider them basicvally irrational and I am rather averse to irrationality.

Yet is his only response to an argument consists of argumentum ad hominem at best, and fleeing from it at worse.

In terms of physical confrntations (sic) I have made absolutely sure in many a diverse way including martial arts and rigorous physical training that I am not at any disadvantage.

Given his gross overestimation of his abilities here, methinks it would be wise if he hire bodyguards.

Further unjustified egotistical postering follows.

Hence with all Liar et Coward et Hypocrite.

He makes claims of prowness for which he cannot back.

--J.D.

[Navigator]

What is the poiint here?
A christian is by default a disciple and a disciple is by default a Christian.

My point is that I find it most likely that those who are called 'Christians' most likely follow after the one called Paul.
A disciple imo is something else again.




As in all literature, context is essential to understanding.

Peck and choosing at will can confuse the reader and those whom the reader chooses to tell his henpecked version of what he has read to.

Yes I agree. Since you too are aware of this dynamic, I would have to conclude that you do it purposefully.
Thus being so, you are doing nothing to enhance Unity and Wholeness.
Your style is designed to attract attention, and the kind of attention which could be defined as being 'persecution' which reinforces your faith and conviction of being on the right path.
I have observed that this is a classic manner in which immature Christians function (though not they alone)...you exude a type of energy tone which attracts a predictable responce, which feeds your sense of purpose and feeling of righteosness.
Certain responces you cannot deflect using your normal practiced methods, because the responce is always unpredictable, and you are not comfortable with the unpredictable.
The only responce you can give to such unpredicatability is a mirror of your ture intent.
Such as...


You are free to think whatever you want to think, interpreete in any way you wish to interpret, and put it forth as your opinion. Why you feel that I am interested in your opinion is another matter.

Which of course is a relative truth...advise which a wise person would adopt in relation to you.
The fact is we all are 'free' to do this very thing.
I did not presume that you would be interested in my opinion, on the contrary...but I gave it none the less, because others are.

"He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters.

What does that quote signify for you personally?

Why ask?

Well the main reason why I asked, is because you quoted it as part of your arguement, therefore you would presumably understand what this signifies for you as an individual.
Also, my interactions with more mature Christians in the past is that (as a rule of thumb) they are more than happy to answer such a question.


Then don't curse a fig tree and if you do--try using magic instead to see how far you get. You are well within your citizen rights to curse any tree you wish without my permission--you know? So be my guest.

Certainly cursing anything is not part of my prefered belief system.
That Jesus is recorded as doing so is not often seen by Christians as anything untoward, hypercritical or out of character with a 'perfect' human (such as he was/is portrayed.)

The fact that Jesus was recorded as being able to perform magic, but in this instance used his magic to curse rather than bless (hey he could have blessed the tree and got the fruit he desired yes?) seems to fly in the face of perfection.


Are you always trying to make friends with EVERYONE?

My preferred stance is to try and remain polite and treat others as I would have them treat me.

Only as fool would do something like that so I doubt that you are.

If I recall correctly, Paul (whom Christians follow) gave the advice to 'be all things to all men' which I interpret as him saying "when in Rome, be a Roman" etc....or more to the point...Be polite and respect everyone as an equal.
In reviewong Paul, his earilier writtings suggest a more hudgemental attitude, and later ones suggest a more mellow fellow...but don;t quote me on that.

Yet you feel that Jesus was interested in winning friends but was so stupid that he did not know how and so stupidly said such things based on his stupidity?

I am saying that to Judge anyone is to Judge the self.
Jesus is no exception to that trueism

Very interesting in a weird sort of way.

Unpredictably so yes.


So Christians are motivated to be nasty because Jesus hasn't arrived yet?

I can't vouch for the acuracy of the observation. The reason why Christians are motivated to be nasty cannot be any diferent from why other individuals are nasty and only proves that their belief systems are of little value in contributing to Unity and Wholeness.


My personal life?
Excuse me but LOLWROF

None of your business.

Oppppps.

Sorry

My bad! : (


Yes...your 'bad'...from my experience, most Christians are more than happy to oblige with such a request. Nothing to hide is a sign that no deception is evident.
My Question was:

What are you doing with your personal energy in advancing Unity and Wholeness?

Cuts to the chase and does away with fruitless speculation.
Doing nothing because the belief might be "Jesus will return and do it all for us" is denying God living through the personality.
Those who are contributing towards Unity and Wholeness do so without the need to call themselves anything in particular.
They just do, and are okay about sharing what they do when/if asked...no 'none of your bizz' responce, because they KNOW what it is they are doing to support Unity and Wholeness.


BTW
Is this te place Jerry Springer gets his audience participants from?if it is not, he should.
There are a lot of good prospects here.

If this were a game of chess between you and I, I would be saying "Checkmate" about now.

[RabbiSatan]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The evidence is overwhelming, the odds are that Hitler was a christian.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This can't be happening man. This can't be happening.
This has to be some type of a nightmare where I am dreaming that I am interacting with some insane asylum inmates.

"I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.." - Hitler

Care to give us any evidence that suggests that Hitler was an Atheist?

Oh wait...

"We don't want to educate anyone in atheism" - Hitler



quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But.. if Hitler wasn't christian, it was christians that he commanded, it was christians that did his bidding and they did it thinking that they were all doing the work of jesus and god. Christians tried to exterminate the jews, christians started WW2.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Since when are you in higher authority to say who is and who is not Christain than Jesus himself? He was clear.

Right, and somehow you have the authority to say that Hitler wasn't a Christian and lump him in with all the other people who incinerate people, alongside with atheists and agnostics - right.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But it does order people to kill and it does promote murdering people of other beliefs.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your mind taints everything it reads with its purid contents.
2 Chronicles, Chapter 15

15:13
That whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

I thought you said you've read the bible?

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No, we can't know for sure what Hitler actually believed,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tht's because you are not at the receiving end of his ant-semetic poilicies. Talk about hipcocracy!

Congratulations on selective quoting to make up a Strawman.

TBK said that we can never be 100% sure of what was going on in Hitler's head, but from what we've seen of his actions and words, it's easy to postulate that Hitler was certainly no "Atheist" as you keep on asserting, and that he was more likely a Christian.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
but he did state that he was christian, he attended christian churches, he talked to christians, he was friends with the Pope and many other catholic authorities, none of his actions are inconsistent with christianity
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wheeeee!
Wow!
That makes him a Christain alright!
What a load of steaming horse manure!
Tell that to the relatives of the people he had tortured via medical experiments and murdered and see what they say.

See above.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and he inspired christians.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OH, Of course!
You mean those innocent hob-nailed Gestapo goose-stepping sadists? Yeah? Christians huh? Uhuh! Uhuh!

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No one can know what a person actually believes, we can only guess based on their actions and words. Hitler's actions and words do not support your assertions. Hitler, and many christians at that time, did not like the Jews.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not like?
Howe very innofensive you describe it all. So they tortured, maimed and murdered and remained good Christians according to you. Very interesting.

Wonder if you would croak the same songl if one of his Gestapo agents were beating your legs into two bloody stumps while listenng to Beethoven.
God with us:
http://www.nobeliefs.com/images/buckle.jpeg

Text Reads: "When you see a cross, then think of the horrible murder by the Jews on Golgotha..."
http://www.nobeliefs.com/images/ChildrenCross.jpg

[kittynh]

It's interesting the state with the most "flim flam" men or scams perfetrated is Utah. My Mormon friends claim a real problem with their religion is that you are supposed to trust another Mormon always. She said the real problem is telling someone with TRUE faith and someone that has just learned to talk the talk.

I'd rather an honest atheist, than someone claiming to be a Christian. I remember Peter Poppoff's wife was found to be attending a Catholic church with her children. Catholic was the "true faith" and the others were just suckers.

SOmeone who will honestly and openly tell you they are an atheist is quite brave in this world. You are really opening yourself up to a lot of criticism and prejudice. At least they are treating all people they meet equally. My Catholic neighbor would never let her daughters date our Jewish neighbors sons. Meanwhile the fundamentalist family wont let their kids to go any meetings with my Mormon friends kids. I'm an Episcopalian, and let my kids enjoy investigating their friends religions, including a Buddhist Monastary in Mass.

I believe that only god can judge what is in someones heart. The rest of us can only guess, and it's often quite a bad guess..


someone that openly expresses a belief in atheism in AMerican society today has at least honestly on their side.

[uruk]

Good argument Rabbi Satan, but your wasting your sweat. Radcook is hardcore gonzo. By his logic any who claims to be a christian is a christian untill they do something "unchristian" then they are an athiest. So when a priest fondles a little boy he is no longer a christian but an athiest. That would also apply to Radcook too. and since we are all sinners (that's in the bible folks) that means Radcook is a sinner and "unchristian". Unless he claims that he never commits sins. Then he would be a liar and therefore "unchristian" and an athiest. Welcome to atheisism Radcook!

[kittynh]

WOW! Did God die and make Radrook in charge?

[RabbiSatan]

Originally posted by kittynh
Someone who will honestly and openly tell you they are an atheist is quite brave in this world. You are really opening yourself up to a lot of criticism and prejudice. At least they are treating all people they meet equally. My Catholic neighbor would never let her daughters date our Jewish neighbors sons. Meanwhile the fundamentalist family wont let their kids to go any meetings with my Mormon friends kids. I'm an Episcopalian, and let my kids enjoy investigating their friends religions, including a Buddhist Monastary in Mass.

someone that openly expresses a belief in atheism in American society today has at least honestly on their side.
From what I've read on these boards and others - I take it that being openly Atheist in American society is to automatically ostracize oneself?

Here in Hong Kong, most people I've met simply don't care - "Oh? You're an Atheist? Who cares? Lets do business," Most people here aren't exactly athiests - but more like apatheists.

Good argument Rabbi Satan, but your wasting your sweat. Radcook is hardcore gonzo. By his logic any who claims to be a christian is a christian untill they do something "unchristian" then they are an athiest. So when a priest fondles a little boy he is no longer a christian but an athiest. That would also apply to Radcook too. and since we are all sinners (that's in the bible folks) that means Radcook is a sinner and "unchristian". Unless he claims that he never commits sins. Then he would be a liar and therefore "unchristian" and an athiest. Welcome to atheisism Radcook!
Oh, I agree wholeheartedly - I'm not in the least expecting to change Radrook's fundie views at all in the slightest, as far as I'm concerned - he's too far gone already - I'm mostly arguing and talking to the lone and confused lurker who is desperately looking for some answers - that's what happened to me when I found the JREF.

[Navigator]

God with us:
http://www.nobeliefs.com/images/buckle.jpeg

http://www.coinfacts.com/half_dollars/seated_liberty_half_dollars/1866_half_dollar_rev.JPG

Is there a difference?

[thaiboxerken]

It looks like that the only true christian, according to Rad.. is himself. This is because anyone that does ANYTHING that he considers unchristian is automatically not a christian. Facts and evidence do not bother Rad, because Rad suffers from TBS.

Rad, you are simply a liar and a fool.

The german nation was mostly made up of catholic christians, it was these catholics that gave Hitler power, it was these catholics that tried to exterminate the Jews. These christians believed they were doing the work of jesus. To believe otherwise is to ignore reality.

Your appeal to "only god knows" is simply an appeal to ignorance, which is a fallacy.

Do you have any substance to your arguments, or are they all based on the BS that the christian church has fed you?

[thaiboxerken]

Wonder if you would croak the same songl if one of his Gestapo agents were beating your legs into two bloody stumps while listenng to Beethoven.

Yes, it is well known that christians made up the general population of germany under Hitler's rule. Then again, maybe there are no true christians, as no person carries the signs of being a true christians (healing, invulnerability and immunity to poison).

[kittynh]

Off topic, but there is a yarn shop called "Gott Mit Uns"

[Z]

Kitten, you should be spanked for that one.

Personally, I'll volunteer to spank your avatar :D

Rad is out there flappin'; he neither sees nor believes evidence, facts, or truth.

It is sad but true, the MAJORITY of the world's atrocities, mass-murders, and wars have been caused by CHRISTIANS, JEWS, and MUSLIMS. In fact, taking a look at the Crusades, the World Wars (well, II anyway), and the Inquisition, plus arguably dozens of other instances, it's a wonder people don't end Christianity in the name of world peace!

Well, when the next Christian Persecution comes around, look for Rad to be wearing the obligatory black armband and stupid hat... :D

[kittynh]

Well, John Lennons song, "Imagine" is a wonderful atheist song of peace. He may not have been an ateist, but I think like many deists he saw the beauty and wonder of atheist belief.

I remember once reading something that Admiral Rickover wrote about nuclear power. He said that even though it had brought cheap electricity to much fo the world, and was used as a tool for treating cancer, if he could he would wish it away. He was a firm believer in the good of it, and developed it perhaps more than any other man, but he saw the evil as well as the good.

[dmarker]

Originally posted by RabbiSatan

From what I've read on these boards and others - I take it that being openly Atheist in American society is to automatically ostracize oneself?

Here in Hong Kong, most people I've met simply don't care - "Oh? You're an Atheist? Who cares? Lets do business," Most people here aren't exactly athiests - but more like apatheists.


Oh, I agree wholeheartedly - I'm not in the least expecting to change Radrook's fundie views at all in the slightest, as far as I'm concerned - he's too far gone already - I'm mostly arguing and talking to the lone and confused lurker who is desperately looking for some answers - that's what happened to me when I found the JREF.

Yes, being openly atheist in US society is to invite (mostly verbal) attack. I shudder to think of Islamic societies however.

[wittgenst3in]

Originally posted by Navigator
God with us:
http://www.nobeliefs.com/images/buckle.jpeg

http://www.coinfacts.com/half_dollars/seated_liberty_half_dollars/1866_half_dollar_rev.JPG

Is there a difference?

German eagle has better posture. Also, German eagle is holding no weapons. American one has arrows (nevermind how a eagle uses arrows)

If I didn't know what a swastika was, I'd like the German one better.

[Radrook]

i ain't gots no beef with that!

[Z]

I, too, think the Nazi symbol is more attractive - and given Bush's agenda, the parallels are only scarier.

[Radrook]

Originally posted by thaiboxerken
[b]. Then again, maybe there are no true christians, as no person carries the signs of being a true christians (healing, invulnerability and immunity to poison).

You forgot faster than a speeding bullet and able to leap tall buildings in a single bound.

[Radrook]

Originally posted by thaiboxerken


Rad, you are simply a liar and a fool.

For a man always bitching about being insulted you sure like to dish it out dontya? But that's OK mommy. It's probably just part of your men um pause.

If you catch my drift.

The german nation was mostly made up of catholic christians, it was these catholics that gave Hitler power, it was these catholics that tried to exterminate the Jews. These christians believed they were doing the work of jesus. To believe otherwise is to ignore reality.


Try not ignoring the reality of the exigencies of grammar. It makes for easier reading. First, the words are "German," "Catholic," "Christian," and "Jesus" not German," "catholic," "Christian," and "jesus" as you write it.
All proper nouns get a capital first letter.
Third-grade stuff.


Your appeal to "only god knows" is simply an appeal to ignorance, which is a fallacy.


Ummm OK then--we all know!
Make ya feel kosher?
Am I a doctor now?

[thaiboxerken]

For a man always bitching about being insulted you sure like to dish it out dontya? But that's OK mommy. It's probably just part of your men um pause.

It's clear that you think calling a person a woman is an insult. Why do you think women are inferior?


Try not ignoring the reality of the exigencies of grammar. It makes for easier reading. First, the words are "German," "Catholic," "Christian," and "Jesus" not German," "catholic," "Christian," and "jesus" as you write it.
All proper nouns get a capital first letter.
Third-grade stuff.

I could care less. It has nothing to do with the argument. I understand, though. You can't deal with the argument itself, so you attack the grammar.

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by thaiboxerken

I could care less. It has nothing to do with the argument. I understand, though. You can't deal with the argument itself, so you attack the grammar. Or, perhaps it's his way of alluding to the pettiness of the whole thing in general?

[Z]

No, he definitely has issues dealing with the actual issues, so instead he resorts to nitpicks, name-calling, personal attacks, petty insults, nonsense, etc.

Which, really, all of us are guilty of - some just more than others.

[Radrook]

Originally posted by thaiboxerken
For a man always bitching about being insulted you sure like to dish it out dontya? But that's OK mommy. It's probably just part of your men um pause.

It's clear that you think calling a person a woman is an insult. Why do you think women are inferior?


Try not ignoring the reality of the exigencies of grammar. It makes for easier reading. First, the words are "German," "Catholic," "Christian," and "Jesus" not German," "catholic," "Christian," and "jesus" as you write it.
All proper nouns get a capital first letter.
Third-grade stuff.

I could care less. It has nothing to do with the argument. I understand, though. You can't deal with the argument itself, so you attack the grammar.

I love women and respect women.
So why are you so intent on demonstrating that I don't?
Maybe YOU are the one that doesn't and are projecting!

[Radrook]

Originally posted by zaayrdragon
No, he definitely has issues dealing with the actual issues, so instead he resorts to nitpicks, name-calling, personal attacks, petty insults, nonsense, etc.

Which, really, all of us are guilty of - some just more than others.

So says the number one namecaller, nitpicker and insulter.

That your cronies don't accuse you doesn't mean you are innocent.


It just means that they are your cronies.

[dmarker]

Originally posted by Radrook
I love women and respect women.
So why are you so intent on demonstrating that I don't?
Maybe YOU are the one that doesn't and are projecting!

Then why are you trying to insult a male poster by comparing him to a woman?

[Z]

Back off, dmarker - he made a mistake. Very simple.

Let's drop the women thing - I don't think his seeming disrespect of women was intended, more a disrespect of homemakers and bored housewives.

My cronies? HAH!

Rad, you are such a CLOWN! Gotta love ya!

[RabbiSatan]

Originally posted by Radrook
So says the number one namecaller, nitpicker and insulter.

Wow...just........wow.

I have no idea how someone can be so hypocritical. You have called people queer, you have insulted people, called me a satanist, made offensive generalizations, been suspended from the board for your vitriol, make arguments consisting of picking apart people's usage of your language when some of your posts are even worse - And you have the gall to say that zaayrdragon is worse than you?

Hypocrisy at it's worst.

That your cronies don't accuse you doesn't mean you are innocent.


It just means that they are your cronies.

So now we're cronies of zaayrdragon's? Where is your evidence of this? Or are you just going to fling generalized accusations and hope some of them stick?

[dmarker]

Originally posted by zaayrdragon
Back off, dmarker - he made a mistake. Very simple.

Let's drop the women thing - I don't think his seeming disrespect of women was intended, more a disrespect of homemakers and bored housewives.

My cronies? HAH!

Rad, you are such a CLOWN! Gotta love ya!

Just asking a simple question. But you are right, it would distract from my attempts to ask Rad religious questions.

[Z]

Well, I mean, it's a small point. Rad pulled a profile from a website that had a drop-down menu for occupation. Since I am the homemaker, I chose 'homewife' as the closest approximate - from this, he concluded I was a woman. His insults appear to me more geared towards women with nothing better to do all day than post on forums, play video games, and watch 'Guiding Light'.

So... small point. He made a mistake.

And I don't watch television. :D

[dmarker]

Originally posted by zaayrdragon
Well, I mean, it's a small point. Rad pulled a profile from a website that had a drop-down menu for occupation. Since I am the homemaker, I chose 'homewife' as the closest approximate - from this, he concluded I was a woman. His insults appear to me more geared towards women with nothing better to do all day than post on forums, play video games, and watch 'Guiding Light'.

So... small point. He made a mistake.

And I don't watch television. :D

So he gears them to a certain kind of woman, big deal. He could gear them to men who live in their parents basements, post on forums, and play video games.

[Radrook]

Originally posted by dmarker
Then why are you trying to insult a male poster by comparing him to a woman?

The same reason that a woman would insult a woman by comparing her to a man. I thought that would be obvious.

[Radrook]

Originally posted by zaayrdragon
Back off, dmarker - he made a mistake. Very simple.

Let's drop the women thing - I don't think his seeming disrespect of women was intended, more a disrespect of homemakers and bored housewives.

My cronies? HAH!

Rad, you are such a CLOWN! Gotta love ya!

LIAR!
I don't disrespect anyone.
All human beings are of equal dignity to me.
Are all Wiccans such downright boldfaced dirty liars or are you an exception?

[Radrook]

Originally posted by RabbiSatan
Wow...just........wow.

I have no idea how someone can be so hypocritical. You have called people queer, you have insulted people, called me a satanist, made offensive generalizations, been suspended from the board for your vitriol, make arguments consisting of picking apart people's usage of your language when some of your posts are even worse - And you have the gall to say that zaayrdragon is worse than you?

Hypocrisy at it's worst.



So now we're cronies of zaayrdragon's? Where is your evidence of this? Or are you just going to fling generalized accusations and hope some of them stick?


Yep!
I have both the gall and the balls.
Live with it cronie.

[wittgenst3in]

Originally posted by Radrook
LIAR!
I don't disrespect anyone.
All human beings are of equal dignity to me.
Are all Wiccans such downright boldfaced dirty liars or are you an exception?

I don't have a comment here. I'd just like people to read this quote again and bask in the glow of irony it give off.

[thaiboxerken]

I love women and respect women.

You obviously do not. You think that being a woman is an insult, as demonstrated by your usage of it.


So why are you so intent on demonstrating that I don't?
Maybe YOU are the one that doesn't and are projecting!

Hardly. One does not call another person a woman as an insult if one actually respects women.

[thaiboxerken]

Originally posted by zaayrdragon

So... small point. He made a mistake.



No, it's worst than that. He called me a woman as in insult as well.

[Z]

I see... Well, in light of that claim, one has to wonder, Dear Audience, what his beef against women are?

(Dear Audience sounds so much cornier than Gentle Reader, but alas, GR seems to bother those of the less-than-gentle persuasion.)

[Radrook]

Originally posted by daenku32
I thought Old Testament doesn't apply to us non-Jews.

The operative words here are "apply" and "OT".

[dmarker]

Originally posted by Radrook
The same reason that a woman would insult a woman by comparing her to a man. I thought that would be obvious.

Comparing a woman to a man in what way?