Paranormal experiences of sceptics

[Pixel42]

I've been prompted to start this thread by the discussion on the 'New PSI forum' thread about the value of personal experiences of paranormal phenomena, and how a sceptic would interpret such an experience if it happened to them.

I am a diehard sceptic about all things paranormal who once had a precognitive dream. It did not turn me into a believer, but I have puzzled over it on and off ever since, and would be interested to hear the views of this community on it.

Let me say straight away that I never mentioned it to anyone before it came true, so I fully accept this is worthless anecdotal evidence as far as anyone else is concerned. As the one who experienced it, however, I cannot simply dismiss it.

It started with a business trip to London a few years ago. After the meeting I nipped off to do some shopping, before catching a late train home to Wiltshire. The alarm woke me up the next morning in the middle of a dream in which I was walking down Oxford Street. (I never remember my dreams unless I am woken up in the middle of one).

When I picked up my Guardian from the doormat I suddenly remembered an Evening Standard placard which I had seen whilst shopping (or so I assumed):

IRA BOMB
STOCK
EXCHANGE

and looked for the story. I was surprised to find no mention of it - even if there had been no casualties it was clearly a major story. I checked Ceefax, still nothing. It was only then that I remembered my dream, and wondered "could I have dreamt it?". It seemed an odd thing to dream, and the (very clear) image in my mind of the placard was anything but dreamlike, but it didn't seem to be connected to any other memory. I concluded that I had, indeed, dreamt it, and dismissed it.

It was about six months before I went up to London again for another business meeting, and once again sneaked off afterwards to do some shopping. As I was walking down Oxford St - you guessed it, there was the placard, just as I had seen it in my dream.

I didn't immediately remember the dream. My first thought (after the usual stab of horror) was "Isn't that the second time they've done that?". It was only when I read the story in the Evening Standard in the train on my way home that the memory of looking for that story in another paper six months earlier, and the dream that had prompted me to do so, came back to me.

There was nothing familiar about the story when I finally read it. I knew nothing about the number injured, damage caused etc. All I had got from the dream was that single image of the placard.

I'm a graduate mathematician, familiar enough with physics to know that time is still a bit of a mystery. No-one really understands why we perceive it differently to the way we perceive the three spatial dimensions, or why our consciousness moves along it in such a way that we remember the past and not the future.

Could I really have somehow picked up a future memory? Or did my brain play some kind of wierd 'deja vu' type trick on me?

Has any other sceptic here had a similar experience, and how did they account for it?

Comments - and explanations - welcome.

[athon]

It is possible that precognitive events occur, that our brains are able to receive some form of transmission from an already set fate, hence previewing the future, and then setting that vision in our dreams.

However, we have no evidence of, a) fate, b) any mechanics of remote viewing and c) any evidence of remote viewing itself. We do, however, have evidence that dreams are random assortments of images and concepts you have encountered at some stage of your life or you have created.

Essentially, a dream is your imagination without concious control and without external stimulus. Hence it is a progression of thoughts that feed off one another (since there's no other stimulus) and provide a weird storyline. On waking, the first thing you often do if you recall a dream is provide conscious control, and try to make sense of the progression. That's why dreams are rarely weird when you're 'inside' of them.

Now, how many dreams do you have in a year? How many do you remember? I'd bet my grandmother that while you can only recall a certain number, there are images that would come to mind from dreams which sequence you can't remember. You also state that this occurence happened six months later. Plenty of time for a random situation to occur which might relate to a dream.

Lastly, deja vu is thought to be a situation where you see something and your brain erroneously creates a loop with something that has happened before, where it indeed hasn't. You sense familiarity where there is none. This could also be the case here.

It all comes down to this -- is it easier to believe that there is a whole field of science which we have yet to find any evidence for, but can speculate about,

OR

that our brains are amazing, complicated machines which work in a particular way to interpret our universe?

Athon

[richardm]

I'm afraid it's just a case of counting the hits and ignoring the misses.

Ever had that strange thing happen where the phone rang, and you immediately thought "That'll be such-and-such" - but it was somebody else?

You probably don't remember ever doing that, because it's a wholly unremarkable thing to happen. But if it turned out to actually be such-and-such, you'd make a mental note of it - perhaps - as an example of a premonitionary flash.

Same with your dream, I'm afraid. You thought back to it because something happened that matched up to it.

But I bet if you think about it you can remember other weird dreams you've had. You don't mark them down as remarkable, because nothing subsequently happened to make you think that it was remarkable.

It's a common thing to do - we all tend to do it, in a variety of ways.

[steenkh]

Pixel42,

Memory is also a fickle thing. I do not say that you never had this dream, but if you did not record it in some way, you have to take into consideration that it is possible that your memory isplaying tricks on you. It could be that you had some dream and that half a year later your memory just clicked the pieces together even if they originally did not fit.

[princhester]

There is also a lot of room in your experience for "improvements" on what happened to have crept into your memory.

You had a dream of a newspaper placard of an IRA bombing of the stock exchange (or at least that's how you remember it). But nothing happened to make the precise words of the placard very important (and thus likely to be remembered exactly) for six months.

Then the IRA bomb the stock exchange and you see a placard to that effect and match it up to your dream.

But how confident are you of the precise details? How confident can one ever be of precise details in dreams (which, at the risk of stating the obvious, have a dreamlike ie vague, quality at the best of times)?

You only have to allow a bit of memory slippage and what your story amounts to is this:

I dreamed I saw a placard announcing a bombing [at a time when that was not at all uncommon].

Six months later I was in London and there was a bombing, which resulted in newspaper placards to that effect.

Ho hum.

[Ratman_tf]

Has any other sceptic here had a similar experience, and how did they account for it?

Comments - and explanations - welcome.

Mine isn't quite so interesting and not hard to rationalize.

Not too many years ago, I prayed to God. Not the xian god specifically, but to any supreme being that might be out there who made it all. I prayed that if such a being existed, I would want to know him/her/it/them. In exchange for convincing evidence that I couldn't rationalize away, I promised to never reveal such evidence, in the hopes that the being in question would provide that evidence without having to worry about me 'spilling the beans' or whatever. If I had my little revelation, I would probably have sought out more.

Nothing happened for a few days, but then one night I had a dream that I wasn't alone in my room. That something was coming from above me. Now, I awoke with a bit of a shock. You know how compelling dreams can be. But I know how compelling dreams can be, but have absolutley no bearing on reality beyond my imagination. This was hardly evidence, or even compelling evidence at that. And the concept of god and angels had been on my mind all that week. My dream could have easily reflected that.
No, if I accpeted that then I'd have to accept that all my dreams were real. Like the one where the ice giants were chasing me, and the one where my socks were eating my feet.

But I have a vivid imagination. That was a pretty spooky dream. Just like the one where aliens were stalking my house. (The Aliens from the movie Aliens. Heh. Not little gray goons.)

[Ipecac]

Originally posted by Ratman_tf
And the concept of god and angels had been on my mind all that week. My dream could have easily reflected that.

Sounds to me like this is the explanation. Good call.

[steenkh]

Originally posted by Ratman_tf

Nothing happened for a few days, but then one night I had a dream that I wasn't alone in my room. That something was coming from above me.

Sounds to me like fairly typical hallucinations in connection with sleep paralysis. Combined with the god and angels that had been on your mind, it seems a very like explanation.

[Lord DavoMan]

I had a case of missing-time. But missing time within a very short time-frame.

When I was 13, I made this metal bug thing at school and I took it home. This spider thing the size of a dinner plate.

I was in the living room and it was sitting on the couch. I picked it up and went into my bedroom and threw it on my bed.

I walked back into the living room and it was on the couch again.

Could I have dazed-out, picked it up off my bed and put it back on the living-room couch, walked out of the living room and back to discover it again?

If so, what would be the point? I clearly have memories of throwing it on my bed, and then finding it on the living room couch.

It still makes me question the validity of my memories, and the validity of the 'hey i remember this' feeling.

[The Cats Venm]

It is events like these that make teaching scepticism and critical thinking in school at as young an age as possible so important.

Just one event like this could have potentially cemented your belief in precognitive dreams, if you didn't have the sense to look for a logical explanation.

Just look at how many believers point to a single anecdotal event that happened to them as the reason they believe unquestionably.

Once an event like this happens, and your mind blows it up to be more than it was, it becomes incredibly hard to let go of for a mundane explanation.


The strangest dream I had was when I was about 10. I dreamed I was at my tree house and that there were blue boulders falling from the sky. It felt so real. I'm very glad it wasn't precognitive.

[Pixel42]

Thanks for the responses, folks.

They were not only interesting, but helpful. :)