Pope as human shield

[a fantoche de meia]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=857&ncid=757&e=10&u=/nm/20030317/od_uk_nm/oukoe_iraq_france_pope

A French parliamentary deputy suggests that the Pope could serve as a human shield in Iraq.

[Segnosaur]

Originally posted by o fantoche de meia
[BA French parliamentary deputy suggests that the Pope could serve as a human shield in Iraq. [/B]

Why would the pope want to go there? There are no alter boys.

Actually, that idea had already been suggested by woo-woo Deepac Chopra, who suggested he, the Pope and the Dali Lama all go to Iraq.

Although the Pope may be anti-war, the Catholic church should not be considered as the measure of morality (given their handling of the abuse cases in the U.S. and Canada). And, from what I understand, the catholics during WW2 failed to speak out against Hitler. (I heard a commentator once talking about the Catholic view... They supposedly have a concept of a "just war"; however, they never say a war is just before the actual fighting... its only after everything is finished that they come along and say "Oh, this was a Just war".)

[Cleopatra]

Originally posted by Segnosaur


And, from what I understand, the catholics during WW2 failed to speak out against Hitler.

Exactly!!!!! I have stucked my face on TV when he vistited Yad Vassem in Israel...waiting for him to say one word. ONE tiny word... "I am sorry"... But he didn't...not even in Yad Vassem...

[Bearguin]

Originally posted by Segnosaur


Although the Pope may be anti-war, the Catholic church should not be considered as the measure of morality (given their handling of the abuse cases in the U.S. and Canada).

Just curious (and sorry to take this off topic) but I don't recall the recent abuse problems being in Canada. Were there some or are you referring to the (somewhat) older issues on reserves etc?

Just re-read that and I want to stress that I don't want to be-little the abuse on reserves, just wondering what you were referring to.

[Segnosaur]

Originally posted by Gods Advocate


Just curious (and sorry to take this off topic) but I don't recall the recent abuse problems being in Canada. Were there some or are you referring to the (somewhat) older issues on reserves etc?

The most well known case in Canada is the abuse at the Mount Cashel Orphanage in Newfoundland, which was run by a Roman Catholic lay order, the Christian brothers of Ireland. Cases stretch back as far as the 1950s. About a dozen or so people have been charged. No real appology has been given by the vatican, and the last I heard, the Catholic church is strongly fighting any possibility of compensation.

http://www.canoe.ca/CNEWSLaw0002/feb21_cashel_CP.html
http://www.lcc.gc.ca/en/themes/mr/ica/besrep/besrep2.asp

[Bearguin]

Thanks. That second link is scary.

I'll take this to a new thread.

[ceo_esq]

Originally posted by Segnosaur
Although the Pope may be anti-war, the Catholic church should not be considered as the measure of morality (given their handling of the abuse cases in the U.S. and Canada). And, from what I understand, the catholics during WW2 failed to speak out against Hitler. (I heard a commentator once talking about the Catholic view... They supposedly have a concept of a "just war"; however, they never say a war is just before the actual fighting... its only after everything is finished that they come along and say "Oh, this was a Just war".)
One might not consider the Catholic Church the measure of morality in practice, but in matters of moral philosophy (and perhaps especially "just war" theory) it's hard to ignore that over the last 2000 years the vast majority of important intellectual work in this area has been elaborated within the framework of Catholicism. For this reason alone, I'd give the Church a second listen on the subject of a just war, even though I'd probably reach a different conclusion on the facts.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Originally posted by ceo_esq

For this reason alone, I'd give the Church a second listen on the subject of a just war, even though I'd probably reach a different conclusion on the facts.

That is two more listens than I would give them on any subject.

[ceo_esq]

Originally posted by The Central Scrutinizer


That is two more listens than I would give them on any subject.
I'm sure, CS, but my point is that there are areas where they practically wrote the book on the subject. If one aspires to any understanding of those subjects (just war theory being one of them, I'd venture to say), it makes sense to listen. If not, then I suppose it doesn't matter.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Originally posted by ceo_esq

I'm sure, CS, but my point is that there are areas where they practically wrote the book on the subject. If one aspires to any understanding of those subjects (just war theory being one of them, I'd venture to say), it makes sense to listen. If not, then I suppose it doesn't matter.

If I wanted advice on covering up child molestation, I suppose I would consult them.

[alancarre]

Originally posted by Segnosaur


Although the Pope may be anti-war, the Catholic church should not be considered as the measure of morality...

etc..


I don't think that's the point. The point is, would Bush risk bombing the Pope thus alienating all Christian voters? I think not.


- Alan

[Segnosaur]

Originally posted by alancarre


I don't think that's the point. The point is, would Bush risk bombing the Pope thus alienating all Christian voters? I think not.

- Alan
Well, I doubt he would alienate ALL christian voters. Many are very anti-catholic. Many would assume that if he went to be a human sheild, he would get what he had coming to him.

However, the posting that you were responding to was not specifically about the pope being a human shield, it was about statements made in general about the pope and his anti-war approach.

[Supercharts]

Originally posted by ceo_esq

One might not consider the Catholic Church the measure of morality in practice, but in matters of moral philosophy (and perhaps especially "just war" theory) it's hard to ignore that over the last 2000 years the vast majority of important intellectual work in this area has been elaborated within the framework of Catholicism. For this reason alone, I'd give the Church a second listen on the subject of a just war, even though I'd probably reach a different conclusion on the facts.

One way to judge morality is to ask if the proposer of the ethic practices what is preached. crickets

[Cleopatra]

Originally posted by ceo_esq

One might not consider the Catholic Church the measure of morality in practice, but in matters of moral philosophy (and perhaps especially "just war" theory) it's hard to ignore that over the last 2000 years the vast majority of important intellectual work in this area has been elaborated within the framework of Catholicism. For this reason alone, I'd give the Church a second listen on the subject of a just war, even though I'd probably reach a different conclusion on the facts.

This is very true but based on your very own statement, wouldn't you expect a serious criticism or, at least a more serious account on the situation, instead of proposing childish, hippy-style, anti-war protestations?

But you made a good point, I must admit.

[Agammamon]

Originally posted by Segnosaur



Actually, that idea had already been suggested by woo-woo Deepac Chopra, who suggested he, the Pope and the Dali Lama all go to Iraq.



I'd be all for this stupid war if we could get even one of these guys to to be a Human shield in Iraq.