"WONDER DRUG!!!!"

[tim]

I received this email a few minutes ago. Sigh.

A LONG AWAITED DRUG
USE "THE ANTIDOTE" TO PROTECT YOURSELF AGAINST
ALL known deadly Viruses & Bacteria in the body that keep diseases, namely: Influenza, SARS, Cancer,
HIV etc. etc. active.

Organizations as vried as the ABC News Online, BBC News, Animal Planet.com, Blue Sky, Wildlife-Film.com
DavidIreland.com, EXN.ca, BBC News, Nova Online, Rense.com, RIRDC.gov, McNeese State Univeristy,
BBC Nature News, Islam Online, and reputable doctors have all given testimonials praising the power of the Antidote.

This quote from BBC Director-General Greg Dyke describes the manner in which a unique anti-microbial peptide was discovered: "Tonight I can reveal that Living Proof, our science documentary on BBC ONE, has done something very unusual: they’ve actually helped find and isolate a protein which kills resistant bacteria and which could form the basis of a new antibiotic."
CLICK HERE TO LEARN MORE AND ORDER or Check out the facts, links & testimonials pages, which
provide an extensive amount of SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE of the Antidote's healing effects.
Recent Protocol (Clinical Trials) Results for the AntidotePatientCode Date AntidoteTaken Gender /Current Health Problems Date /Results after taking the Antidote
CD-001 Apr 1, 2004 (Male) - Chronic sinusitis, rheumatic fever, swollen lymph nodes, diabetes, tenia versicolor on forearms. Apr 5, 2004Curative crisis cleared sinuses, lymph nodes normal, tenia versicolor cleared.
AI-002 Apr 5, 2004 (Female) - Anemia, frequent colds. Apr 9, 2004Alleges no changes.
Apr 19, 2004Patient reports no more colds or allergies.
KK-003 Apr 5, 2004 (Male) - Chronic sinusitis, rheumatic fever, shoulder pain, tenia versicolor on back. Apr 9, 2004Shoulder pain gone, curative crisis but sinuses continue congested, tenia versicolor almost gone.
Apr 19, 2004Tenia versicolor gone, MRI scheduled for his shoulder pain has been cancelled.
CO-004 Apr 5, 2004 (Male) - Hepatitis C nephritis, diabetes, difficulty walking, congested lungs. Apr 9, 2004Energized, able to lift legs without pain, lungs clear, no more allergies.
CF-005 Apr 5, 2004 (Male) - HIV+, diabetes May 4, 2004Patient reports overall sense of well being, diabetes under control, enhanced immune system, no aches and pains, patient has returned to work.
MS-006 Apr 6, 2004 (Female) - Stomach cancer, lupus, osteoporosis, gastritis, acute colitis, multiple implants. Apr 11, 2004Energized, breathing easily, no upset stomach, normal bowel movements.
May 4, 2004Old suppurating injuries have healed.
RP-007 Apr 6, 2004 (Male) - Sarcoma cancer type III-left thigh, high cholesterol and triglycerides frequent allergies. Apr 30, 2004Returned from evaluation in Mayo Clinic, Jacksonville, FL. Patient reports clean bill of health, energized and enhanced immune system proven by no more allergies.
RR-008 Apr 8, 2004 (Male) - Osteoarthritis, high blood pressure, high triglycerides, diabetes, vitiligo. May 4, 2004Normal blood pressure, less joint pain, diabetes under control, has suffered no colds since taking product.
RL-009 Apr 12, 2004 (Female) - HIV+, recent splenectomy. Apr 19, 2004Energized, better digestion, no aches and pains, no allergies.
GG-010 Apr 14, 2004 (Female) - HIV+, chronic sinusitis, osteoarthritis, psoriasis, tenia versicolor on upper arms. May 4, 2004No improvement on sinus condition, patient no longer complains of aches and pains, skin condition greatly improved although no improvement on psoriasis.
AT-011 Apr 15, 2004 (Female) - HIV+, asthma , allergies, tenia versicolor on left knee, joint pain. May 4, 2004Curative crisis consisting of 3 day foul smelling urine, asthma, allergies and tenia versicolor cleared, patient reports 3 day pain free menstrual cycle, no aches and pains.
OG-12 Apr 20, 2004 (Male) - Recent surgery, groin hernia. Previous surgery wouldn’t heal, chemical burns on forearms. Apr 23, 2004Surgery, chemical burns on forearms healed, old suppurating wound healed, enhanced energy levels.


WE ARE THE ONLY COMPANY IN THE WORLD WHO HAVE DEVELOPED AND ENHANCED THIS PRODUCT FOR SALE.

ORDERS LIMITED PER FAMILY WORLDWIDE - RUSH TO GET YOURS
CLICK HERE TO LEARN MORE AND ORDER
_______________________________
No thanks. I do not want to be cured of all deadly disease remove me from mailing
No major drug company wants you to get your hands on it. Drug companies would be losing billions every day if this product was on the shelf next to their major brands. This is exactly the type of product major corporations want to usher aside as just another “passing fad�, but don’t let them fool you. This is 100% real and has the power to change how human beings perceive an alternative to drugs forever.

Sent to - wardi.sanusi@ntlworld.com <wardi.sanusi@ntlworld.com>; wardie2k@ntlworld.com <wardie2k@ntlworld.com>; wardies@ntlworld.com <wardies@ntlworld.com>; tim.topping@ntlworld.com <tim.topping@ntlworld.com>; tim.tucker@ntlworld.com <tim.tucker@ntlworld.com>; tim.v.judge@ntlworld.com <tim.v.judge@ntlworld.com>; tim.walker@ntlworld.com <tim.walker@ntlworld.com>; tim.walker4@ntlworld.com <tim.walker4@ntlworld.com>; tim.waterfield@ntlworld.com <tim.waterfield@ntlworld.com>; tim.watkins@ntlworld.com <tim.watkins@ntlworld.com>; tim.watson@ntlworld.com tim.watson@ntlworld.com


From – phqvdmzenssb@yh.hz.zj.cn

Wow! I think I ought to buy some straight away. I can't believe those evil drug companies have been hiding this discovery! :rolleyes:

[Lisa Simpson]

I got that one this morning. I would love to know what is in their product that will protect you against all those diseases.

Magic water?

Snake oil?

[Capsid]

The compound is called crocodillin. It is a peptide with anti-microbial properties but there is very little published data on this. The BBC are trying to take some credit for its discovery.

This site (http://www.chemheritage.org/EducationalServices/pharm/antibiot/readings/croc.htm) may help you find more. The researcher championing this is Gill Diamond but I could not find his details at the New Jersey Medical School. He has written a review which you can find on Pubmed.

The FDA has also sent a warning letter to the company about the claims and potential safety concerns of giving crocodile blood to humans. This response was on the company website but I have lost the link since changing computers.

I'd be interested if more can be found out and the link for the company's website.

[Kumar]

What about simple 'Milk Of Magnesia'? Can it somewhat do all that??????????:)

[Eos of the Eons]

All I can say is: Typical. Cure all. What we all want right? A simple answer to EVERYTHING!! Too bad some people believe that could in any way be possible.

I have another one for you.

ACCUPUNCTURE PILL.

Yep, read all about it!!

Wonder Puncture Pill (http://www.comcast.net/News/HEALTHWELLNESS//XML/1500_Health__medical/0a3658e2-34a1-414e-b705-5c50b99e25f6.html)

[Kumar]

Just try to understand & relate it.

Magnesium Hydroxide (http://www.vitacost.com/science/hn/Drug/Magnesium_Hydroxide.htm)

[TheFeds]

Originally posted by Kumar
What about simple 'Milk Of Magnesia'? Can it somewhat do all that??????????:) I hope that you are joking. (The intent is unclear, given the follow-up post.)
Milk of magnesia (MgOH (http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/m0160.htm)) is an antacid, and a weak base. It is not any of the things described in the original post. Arguing otherwise would be a rather untenable position.

[Kumar]

Originally posted by tim
USE "THE ANTIDOTE" TO PROTECT YOURSELF AGAINST
ALL known deadly Viruses & Bacteria in the body that keep diseases, namely: Influenza, SARS, Cancer,
HIV etc. etc. active.

Enhanced body internal pH.


CD-001 Apr 1, 2004 (Male) - Chronic sinusitis, rheumatic fever, swollen lymph nodes, diabetes, tenia versicolor on forearms. Apr 5, 2004Curative crisis cleared sinuses, lymph nodes normal, tenia versicolor cleared.
AI-002 Apr 5, 2004 (Female) - Anemia, frequent colds. Apr 9, 2004Alleges no changes.
Apr 19, 2004Patient reports no more colds or allergies.
KK-003 Apr 5, 2004 (Male) - Chronic sinusitis, rheumatic fever, shoulder pain, tenia versicolor on back. Apr 9, 2004Shoulder pain gone, curative crisis but sinuses continue congested, tenia versicolor almost gone.
Apr 19, 2004Tenia versicolor gone, MRI scheduled for his shoulder pain has been cancelled.
CO-004 Apr 5, 2004 (Male) - Hepatitis C nephritis, diabetes, difficulty walking, congested lungs. Apr 9, 2004Energized, able to lift legs without pain, lungs clear, no more allergies.
CF-005 Apr 5, 2004 (Male) - HIV+, diabetes May 4, 2004Patient reports overall sense of well being, diabetes under control, enhanced immune system, no aches and pains, patient has returned to work.

Inflamatory diseases/type effect. Lowering of stomach acidy>>lesser digestion of iron & other substances>>so lesser absorption.

MS-006 Apr 6, 2004 (Female) - Stomach cancer, lupus, osteoporosis, gastritis, acute colitis, multiple implants. Apr 11, 2004Energized, breathing easily, no upset stomach, normal bowel movements.
May 4, 2004Old suppurating injuries have healed.
RP-007 Apr 6, 2004 (Male) - Sarcoma cancer type III-left thigh, high cholesterol and triglycerides frequent allergies. Apr 30, 2004Returned from evaluation in Mayo Clinic, Jacksonville, FL. Patient reports clean bill of health, energized and enhanced immune system proven by no more allergies.
RR-008 Apr 8, 2004 (Male) - Osteoarthritis, high blood pressure, high triglycerides, diabetes, vitiligo. May 4, 2004Normal blood pressure, less joint pain, diabetes under control, has suffered no colds since taking product.
RL-009 Apr 12, 2004 (Female) - HIV+, recent splenectomy. Apr 19, 2004Energized, better digestion, no aches and pains, no allergies.
GG-010 Apr 14, 2004 (Female) - HIV+, chronic sinusitis, osteoarthritis, psoriasis, tenia versicolor on upper arms. May 4, 2004No improvement on sinus condition, patient no longer complains of aches and pains, skin condition greatly improved although no improvement on psoriasis.
AT-011 Apr 15, 2004 (Female) - HIV+, asthma , allergies, tenia versicolor on left knee, joint pain. May 4, 2004Curative crisis consisting of 3 day foul smelling urine, asthma, allergies and tenia versicolor cleared, patient reports 3 day pain free menstrual cycle, no aches and pains.
OG-12 Apr 20, 2004 (Male) - Recent surgery, groin hernia. Previous surgery wouldn’t heal, chemical burns on forearms. Apr 23, 2004Surgery, chemical burns on forearms healed, old suppurating wound healed, enhanced energy levels.

Inflamations & digestion improved by MOM, motion clear due to luxative effects. Iron,other substances are less digested & absorbed due to low stomach acid & quick stomach & intestinal emptying. Somewhat Magnesium mineral effects are also added.

Is it not somewhat relevant? However, you can better relate & assess technically the same & tell here accordingly.:rolleyes:

More on MOM (http://www.nationalmssociety.org/Meds-MagnesiumHydroxide.asp)

[Anders]

Originally posted by Capsid
The compound is called crocodillin. It is a peptide with anti-microbial properties but there is very little published data on this. The BBC are trying to take some credit for its discovery.

This site (http://www.chemheritage.org/EducationalServices/pharm/antibiot/readings/croc.htm) may help you find more. The researcher championing this is Gill Diamond but I could not find his details at the New Jersey Medical School. He has written a review which you can find on Pubmed.

The FDA has also sent a warning letter to the company about the claims and potential safety concerns of giving crocodile blood to humans. This response was on the company website but I have lost the link since changing computers.

I'd be interested if more can be found out and the link for the company's website.
Croc blood! Oh my. Protein with antimicrobal properties? Like that is something new!

And there's nothing on "crocodillin" on Pubmed.

Oh, Dr. Dimonds faculaty webpage is nowhere to be seen. He doesn't seem to be working at the NJMS any more.

But, If there is something there, it could mean a breakthroug in the fight agains resistant bacteria, great. Usefull proteins are quite often found in other eucaryotes, so the idea is not that strange.

[Anders]

Originally posted by Kumar
Enhanced body internal pH.

Does that mean decreasing or increasing your pH?

Well, if you try, the body has quite good buffers to keep its pH slightly basic. that means that even if you try hard, the pH of the body stays almost the same!

But, that is not what this tread is about, it is about a certain protein called crocodillin.

[Rob Lister]

Originally posted by Anders
Croc blood! Oh my. Protein with antimicrobal properties? Like that is something new!

And there's nothing on "crocodillin" on Pubmed.

Oh, Dr. Dimonds faculaty webpage is nowhere to be seen. He doesn't seem to be working at the NJMS any more.

But, If there is something there, it could mean a breakthroug in the fight agains resistant bacteria, great. Usefull proteins are quite often found in other eucaryotes, so the idea is not that strange.

Diamond's faculaty webpage is here

http://dentalschool.umdnj.edu/research/center-files/diamond.htm

I'm not at all sure that Diamond is in anyway associated with the marketing of any products. I gather he is doing research in this field but it appears to be (somewhat) legit. At least I don't think he is intentionally trying to con anyone. Perhaps some scam-artist is just taking advantage of the publicity he received.

[Kumar]

Originally posted by Anders
Does that mean decreasing or increasing your pH?

Well, if you try, the body has quite good buffers to keep its pH slightly basic. that means that even if you try hard, the pH of the body stays almost the same!

But, that is not what this tread is about, it is about a certain protein called crocodillin. I meant: by decrease in total pH of body i.e. to make it more acidic.

I just thought if some possible/matching relations. MOM & Aluminum. hydroxide can be just opposite in some sense

[Zep]

Originally posted by Kumar
I meant: by decrease in total pH of body i.e. to make it more acidic.

I just thought if some possible/matching relations. MOM & Aluminum. hydroxide can be just opposite in some sense
QUESTION FOR KUMAR:

Can you please explain to us in accurate detail how and why this idea of yours actually works?

Thank you.

[Anders]

Originally posted by Rob Lister
Diamond's faculaty webpage is here

http://dentalschool.umdnj.edu/research/center-files/diamond.htm

I'm not at all sure that Diamond is in anyway associated with the marketing of any products. I gather he is doing research in this field but it appears to be (somewhat) legit. At least I don't think he is intentionally trying to con anyone. Perhaps some scam-artist is just taking advantage of the publicity he received.
That seems to be the case. Dr Diamon himself seem to be the real deal.

[Anders]

Originally posted by Kumar
I meant: by decrease in total pH of body i.e. to make it more acidic.

I just thought if some possible/matching relations. MOM & Aluminum. hydroxide can be just opposite in some sense
Why would we want that? The body regulatory systems keep the pH on one level for a reason. If the pH by some mean would change, the pH in the cells might change and quite a few of the chemical processe in the cell would stop! It would lead to instant death, and death is not very healty, I can tell you.

[Kumar]

Anders,
It is ok that" The body regulatory systems keep the pH on one level for a reason" & enen very nominal change in blood pH can mean something like death. But, taking any antacid will relese more bicarbonate internally, which can atleast show some effects--may not be fatal as yet, due to body regulatory systems.

We need to understand more about absorptions, infections & inflamations. GI tract pH can effect digestion & absorption of so many body substances (whose low & excess quantity in body may mean most of the things). Magnesium based antacids shows effects on habitual constipated & unclear motions type of persons. Other antacids may show just opposite in bowl movements(suitable to clear/loose motions type persons). Low pH may protect us from infections but can be reason for effecting inflamations & better digestion & so absorption. All these are to be co-related with any condition or disease. However, I think pH means something constitutional, systemetic, hereditory or chronic & any mistake in it means just opposite.

You may now relate above mentioned effects with antacids/pH base--that whether it can be somewhat possible or not?

[Anders]

Originally posted by Kumar
Anders,
It is ok that" The body regulatory systems keep the pH on one level for a reason" & enen very nominal change in blood pH can mean something like death. But, taking any antacid will relese more bicarbonate internally, which can atleast show some effects--may not be fatal as yet, due to body regulatory systems.

We need to understand more about absorptions, infections & inflamations. GI tract pH can effect digestion & absorption of so many body substances (whose low & excess quantity in body may mean most of the things). Magnesium based antacids shows effects on habitual constipated & unclear motions type of persons. Other antacids may show just opposite in bowl movements(suitable to clear/loose motions type persons). Low pH may protect us from infections but can be reason for effecting inflamations & better digestion & so absorption. All these are to be co-related with any condition or disease. However, I think pH means something constitutional, systemetic, hereditory or chronic & any mistake in it means just opposite.

You may now relate above mentioned effects with antacids/pH base--that whether it can be somewhat possible or not?
Dear Kumar, do you even know what pH stand for? pH denotes the number of H30+ ions in a solution, actually - log n , nothing more nothing less. The pH can be lowered by intoducing an acid or increased by adding more base. However, the pH of the cells are regulatied by very powerfull buffers, that if for instance you add enoough acid to lower the pH with one (1) the buffer would lower the decreas to just 0.05, depending on which buffer is used.

So even if you try to introduce acid in to the cells, they would either die or regulate the pH to 7.25-7.35 if I'm not wrong.

Making pH changes to the stomic fluids is done today and work pretty good. To make pH changes to other cells, well, that means that you have to make some genetic changes, and that pretty tough.

[Zep]

Originally posted by Zep
QUESTION FOR KUMAR:

Can you please explain to us in accurate detail how and why this idea of yours actually works?

Thank you.

[Kumar]

Originally posted by Anders
Dear Kumar, do you even know what pH stand for? pH denotes the number of H30+ ions in a solution, actually - log n , nothing more nothing less. The pH can be lowered by intoducing an acid or increased by adding more base. However, the pH of the cells are regulatied by very powerfull buffers, that if for instance you add enoough acid to lower the pH with one (1) the buffer would lower the decreas to just 0.05, depending on which buffer is used.

So even if you try to introduce acid in to the cells, they would either die or regulate the pH to 7.25-7.35 if I'm not wrong.

Making pH changes to the stomic fluids is done today and work pretty good. To make pH changes to other cells, well, that means that you have to make some genetic changes, and that pretty tough.

MINERAL ASSIMILATION is affected by pH. Minerals have different pH levels at which they can be assimilated into the body. Minerals on the lower end of the atomic scale can be assimilated in a wider pH range, and minerals higher up on the scale require a narrower and narrower pH range in order to be assimilated by the body. For example….



Sodium and magnesium have wide pH assimilation ranges.

It narrows somewhat for calcium and potassium.

Narrows more for manganese and iron.

More for zinc and copper.

More for iodine.



Your Body
pH Affects EVERYTHING. (http://biomedx.com/microscopes/rrintro/rr4.html)

However, continious & long term imbalances may mean Chronic Diseases. If body does not shows immediate/measurable effects or recoves, may not mean it is not effected.

Zep,

Change your blood, and you'll change your consciousness.

Change your consciousness, and you'll change your blood.

The State of Your Individual Health is

Spiritually/Vibrationally Induced,

Chemically/Electrically Driven,

& Biologically Carried Out.
http://biomedx.com/microscopes/rrintro/rr5.html

[Benguin]

Originally posted by Kumar
[QUOTE]MINERAL ASSIMILATION is affected by pH. Minerals have different pH levels at which they can be assimilated into the body. Minerals on the lower end of the atomic scale can be assimilated in a wider pH range, and minerals higher up on the scale require a narrower and narrower pH range in order to be assimilated by the body. For example….



Sodium and magnesium have wide pH assimilation ranges.

It narrows somewhat for calcium and potassium.

Narrows more for manganese and iron.

More for zinc and copper.

More for iodine.[QUOTE]



Your Body
pH Affects EVERYTHING. (http://biomedx.com/microscopes/rrintro/rr4.html)

Howecer, continious & lond term imbalances may mean Chronic Diseases. If body not shows immediate/measurable effects or recoves, may not mean it is not effected.

Massive leap of logic there ... whether or not pH in the GI Tract influences mineral absorption I wouldn't know.

But you'd still have to properly demonstrate mineral deficiencies/surpluses are directly connected to all ill-health in the way you describe.

How about keeping this unproven speculation in the threads you started for it rather than trying to drag other ones off topic?

[Kumar]

Originally posted by Benguin
Massive leap of logic there ... whether or not pH in the GI Tract influences mineral absorption I wouldn't know
CONTROL OF THE HYDROGEN ION ACTIVITY (pH) IN THE BODY (http://www.usyd.edu.au/su/anaes/lectures/acidbase_mjb/control.html)

[Kumar]

http://www.luminet.net/~wenonah/gif/phscale.gif

"In Biochemistry ...
The pH of our blood is normally controlled to within a few tenths of a pH unit by our body chemistry. If our blood pH changes as much as half a pH unit, serious illness will result. Proper skin pH is essential for a healthy complexion. The pH of one's stomach directly affects the digestive process."

pH OF THE BLOOD: (http://www.usyd.edu.au/su/anaes/lectures/acidbase_mjb/acidbase.html)

[Benguin]

Take it back to your thread and I'll discuss it with you there.

Needless to say, I still think you are talking steaming troll-poo.

[Anders]

i found this on Kumar's favorit site http://biomedx.com/

"The colloids of life are what Enderlein called the protit. Colloids are particles that measure .01 to .0001 microns in diameter (that's about 4 hundred thousandths to 4 millionths of an inch.) There is some point in space and time where the colloids of life (the smallest of biological living particles in the physical realm) were begotten from the colloids of light (the spiritual realm)."

Say everthing about what Kumar believs, now, doesn't it!

Oh my, talk about whimsy ideas!

From now on, Kumar is on my, whats it called, "don't wanna see him" list.

[Zep]

Originally posted by Zep
QUESTION FOR KUMAR:

Can you please explain to us in accurate detail how and why this idea of yours actually works?

Thank you. Kumar,

Let me take you on an exercise in simple comprehension.

"CAN YOU EXPLAIN" is a question about what YOU understand about this subject. If I wanted some other person's words, I would have asked: "Can you show me other people explaining...". The subject of this question is "YOU" - Kumar. YOU are asked to do the describing, not anyone else.

"HOW AND WHY THIS IDEA WORKS" is a request for at least some coherent details and understanding of the subject at hand. Not whimsical, imaginary stuff with no basis in fact. If I wanted a fairy-story I would have asked for one, but I didn't.

Which means I need to ask again:Can you please explain to us in accurate detail how and why this idea of yours actually works?Thank you once again.

[Kumar]

I expected/imagined/assumed/thought that by this time & by studing all my posts in this & other topics--you may/should be able to understood its reasonings. But if you can't--I can not help. Digestion, various body pHs, absorptions, infections, inflamations, constipation, Diarrhea, unclear/clear motions, antacids/AB,....may mean most of the things if not all things. :o

[Zep]

Originally posted by Kumar
I expected/imagined/assumed/thought that by this time & by studing all my posts in this & other topics--you may/should be able to understood its reasonings. But if you can't--I can not help. Digestion, various body pHs, absorptions, infections, inflamations, constipation, Diarrhea, unclear/clear motions, antacids/AB,....may mean most of the things if not all things. :o Not an answer to the question but an evasion. Try again, please.

Can you please explain to us in accurate detail how and why this idea of yours actually works?

[Kumar]

What are your assesments & views regarding antacids & pH effects in considerations of various postings, please, Zep?

[Zep]

Originally posted by Kumar
What are your assesments & views regarding antacids & pH effects in considerations of various postings, please, Zep? Evasion. My views are not what was asked for. Try again, please.

Can you please explain to us in accurate detail how and why this idea of yours actually works, Kumar?

[anonimouse]

Originally posted by Kumar
I expected/imagined/assumed/thought that by this time & by studing all my posts in this & other topics--you may/should be able to understood its reasonings. But if you can't--I can not help. Digestion, various body pHs, absorptions, infections, inflamations, constipation, Diarrhea, unclear/clear motions, antacids/AB,....may mean most of the things if not all things. :o

The reason nobody understands your posts is that you haven't made a clear statement yet. If you proposed the hypothesis:

Increased production of stomach acid plays a role in inflammatory diseases.

That's fine. One can refute or affirm that statement with scientific research.

But when you don't actually, you know, say anything that makes sense, it gets hard to respond. And of course, when people don't respond or are confused by your posts, you claim that everyone's out to get you and that nobody understands.