Starting a new religion

[kourama]

In the old days religion grew out of good ol' fashioned ignorance and fear.

Then it got moulded by politics.

Then, recently in history new religions were formed by people with all kinds of interesting agendas, most notably, L. Ron Hubbard's paranoid little mind-f*ck.

So, I'm wondering, if we took a benevolent approach and designed a religion together, d'ya think we could create a decent religion that would be able to actually benefit mankind in any way?

There are a lot of difficulties, for one, you have different strata of followers and the religion muyst appeal to all levels.

You've got the "sheep". These are the people who need to be told what to think, what to do, etc etc. The religion must give them fast, simple solutions to the kinds of problems they'll have to deal with all the time: death, poverty, unruly children, crappy jobs, etc. But you must make sure the rules you create for them won't villify a small group, and turn them into murderers. Tricky.

You've also got the "sharks". These are the types that are generally a little smarter than the sheep. They need a little power, so you'd have to give them limited control over the some groups of sheep. They'll generally still believe in the doctrines and dogma, but they'll bend the rules to suit themselves if you're not careful.

whoo, this could go on...

Anyway, whuddaya think?

[Doctor X]

Can I be the Lord High Executioner of Divine Justice?

I have always wanted to be a Lord High Executioner of Divine Justice. . . .

--J. "Light the Fires!!" D.

[neutrino_cannon]

I, for one would love to start a benevolent religion. We could go about the world, helping the poor and downtrodden, or influence world politics with our beneficient hand and wisdom.

The problem is fitting this into a religion.

----
In the old days religion grew out of good ol' fashioned ignorance and fear.

Then it got moulded by politics.
----


I think you could have the order reversed.


----
So, I'm wondering, if we took a benevolent approach and designed a religion together, d'ya think we could create a decent religion that would be able to actually benefit mankind in any way?
----


It might look something like atheism, or it could end up looking like the skeptical movement?

;)

[hammegk]

Originally posted by Whodini
----
So, I'm wondering, if we took a benevolent approach and designed a religion together, d'ya think we could create a decent religion that would be able to actually benefit mankind in any way?
----


It might look something like atheism, or it could end up looking like the skeptical movement?

;)

:eek: :eek: :eek: Funniest, truest, comment I've seen in a good while. :D

[QuarkChild]

It would be extremely difficult to start a benevolent religion, I think. The problem that I anticipate is that a benevolent religion shouldn't be rigid; it should always be ready to absorb new scientific findings and adapt to new situations, because what is benevolent in one time/society will not necessarily be benevolent in another. But how do you make a religion that isn't dogmatic?

I can just imagine myself as a prophet, enjoining people (after a long, detailed explanation), "... so you see, for this reason it is immoral to drive a SUV to work-- but remember that this isn't set in stone; applying this logic to a different situation may get you a different answer."

Then five minutes later my followers are bleating like sheep: "SUVs are evil...SUVs are evil...baaaaaa" and have completely forgotten the logic behind it and all my caveats.

Then after I die my followers would tell everyone that QuarkChild the Prophet told them they burn in hell if they so much as touched a SUV, and then 50 years after that the religion would splinter over the question of whether a hybrid-electric SUV is still an SUV under religious law, and the two factions would fight a war over it, in which more oil would be squandered that was used by SUV's in a year.

::sigh:: Or maybe I'm just cynical.

[c4ts]

Try starting a psychological business, then add funny costumes and rituals.

[evildave]

I call "Charismatic leader who all the pretty young women have to give special 'favors' to"!

[c4ts]

Originally posted by evildave
I call "Charismatic leader who all the pretty young women have to give special 'favors' to"!

Very well, you get to be Carndinal of the Sexual Inquisition. The position of "God" has already been taken. By me. Your master. Bow to me, and release unto me your material possessions, so that I may free you from crude desires. I will grant you eternal bliss and phenominal cosmic powers!

[evildave]

Sure! Just understand that the girls aren't "mine". They're on loan.

[Janus]

Originally posted by c4ts


I will grant you eternal bliss and phenominal cosmic powers!

Terms and conditions.
1. Bliss and powers will only be awarded after death.
2. To be eligible, supplicant must have completed one of the following
2.1 Successfully relocated the entire Sahara desert with their tongue.
2.2 Meditated at the top of a thin pole for 85 years consecutively, without falling off.
2.3 Render the equivalent of 200,000,000 man-hours of manual labour in service to the religion.
3. An eligible supplicant will have lived entire life in accordance with teachings of said religion.
3.1 Teaching of religion may change at any time.
3.2 No deviance from said teachings of any kind will be tolerated.
4. The ruling of God or his/her agents is final. No correspondence will be entered into.

[Agammamon]

I wanna be the Minister in Charge of Religious Genocide, Lord High Executioner, and Witchsmeller Pursuviant.

[Keneke]

Originally posted by QuarkChild
But how do you make a religion that isn't dogmatic?

No, no, it will have to be dogmatic. The whole purpose to religion is to have a dogma so you don't have to waste your time forming opinions about every little thing.

I think this is an excellent idea and an excellent thread. However, if you want to base something off of common sense and not make any woowoo stuff up, possibly formalizing the psuedo-religion of secular humanist would be a good idea?

[Keneke]

Ooo, I wanna be the Pope!

"Itza da Pope-a, he's a nice-a guy!"

"Ay! I'm-a the Pope-a!"

[Doctor X]

Not a bad start:

God--c4ts
Pope--Keneke
Cardinal of Sexual Inquisition--EvilDave
Lord High Executioner of Divine Justices--Moi
Minister in Charge of Religious Genocide, Lord High Executioner, and Witchsmeller Pursuviant--Agammamnon

Right, now we need some minions and scapegoats. . . .

--J.D.

[Lucifuge Rofocale]

I want the position where you have sex with young girls.
Democracy sirs! Evildave.....we need to compete for that

[c4ts]

We still need a Minister of Truth to design and distribute fliers, brochures, and TV adds.

[kourama]

Damn, I started the thread, went to sleep and now I come back and the whole things has completely gotten out of hand! Executioner!!?? no no no! That's completely contrary to the original idea!


...hmmm...gee I wonder if there REALLY is/was a Christ and he/she/it REALLY does have a second coming, if they might say something like that....

Ah well, I say we make it multitheistic, that way we can have different levels of gods, and we can add to the mythos of the religion so that as the organization changes it's position of different issues it can be because a greater God overruled a lesser God. Of course, in this situation we can't have a supreme God, or we'd degrade back into the tried-and-false set of current religions.

Why are we already assigning titles, anyway, shouldn't we figure out what the ground rules are?

Also, who's good at fiction? We need someone to start writing out the holy books.

Originally posted by kourama


Anyway, whuddaya think?

I think that Aldous Huxley tried to answer this question in his last novel.

Island (http://www.island.org/Huxley/default.asp)

[Cleopatra]

Originally posted by kourama

...Ah well, I say we make it multitheistic, that way we can have different levels of gods, and we can add to the mythos of the religion so that as the organization changes it's position of different issues it can be because a greater God overruled a lesser God. Of course, in this situation we can't have a supreme God, or we'd degrade back into the tried-and-false set of current religions.


When candidate Goddesses may submit their application?

Will previous experience in the position of Goddess, be taken into consideration? I am kind of interested you know...

Cleopatra...Goddess -Patron Saint of decadent male characters...

[kourama]

Originally posted by Cleopatra



When candidate Goddesses may submit their application?

Will previous experience in the position of Goddess, be taken into consideration? I am kind of interested you know...

Cleopatra...Goddess -Patron Saint of decadent male characters...

Well, see, having actual, corporeal, REAL Gods won't work at all, because they can be tested and explained. Once you can fully understand something it no longer has the power to scare you, and that is the essence of diety. Who still fears lightning?

HOWEVER, being a deity's representitive is lucrative and even BETTER than being an avatar, because you get to accept all the sacrifices from the worshippers on behalf of the deity, but you still only have to be human.

[DanishDynamite]

Careful, folks.

The Ministry of EdGod (TM) was already created on this forum a long time ago. If you continue on this path, Ed (praised be His name) will be forced to return and Smite (TM) y'all.

[Cleopatra]

Originally posted by kourama


Well, see, having actual, corporeal, REAL Gods won't work at all, because they can be tested and explained. Once you can fully understand something it no longer has the power to scare you, and that is the essence of diety. Who still fears lightning?

Americans!!! You have lost a unique opportunity to have a REAL Goddess in your Religion...I don't know what other Gods are, I am to busy to deal with colleagues but ...oh well...

orders to bring her a fan and have a slave to wave it because she got really upset...She needs air!

HOWEVER, being a deity's representitive is lucrative and even BETTER than being an avatar, because you get to accept all the sacrifices from the worshippers on behalf of the deity, but you still only have to be human.

My my my... So, if I want to represent the Patron Saint of the decadent male characters of the Universe, what shall I do? All I need to do is to become human?!

[kourama]

Originally posted by Cleopatra


Americans!!!


* SNIP *



HMPH! I'll pretend I didn't see that! :D

(Looking for TORONTO on a map of the U.S.)

[NoZed Avenger]

Originally posted by Janus


Terms and conditions.
2.3 Render the equivalent of 200,000,000 man-hours of manual labour in service to the religion.


Hmm. Is that billable hours?

NA

[Doctor X]

kourama:

Unfortunately, many of my countrymen have problems finding Montana on a map. . . .

If we have a god, we can have a goddess!

Now we have to oppress somone!!!

--J. "Heretics!!" D.

[Kilted_Canuck]

Originally posted by kourama

Ah well, I say we make it multitheistic, that way we can have different levels of gods, and we can add to the mythos of the religion so that as the organization changes it's position of different issues it can be because a greater God overruled a lesser God. Of course, in this situation we can't have a supreme God, or we'd degrade back into the tried-and-false set of current religions.



Just like pokemon, except "Gotta worship them all!"
Once the marketing gets stale, you just have to release a new series of dieties to keep the kids happy.

P.S. Dibs on LEADER

[evildave]

Originally posted by Lucifuge Rofocale
I want the position where you have sex with young girls.
Democracy sirs! Evildave.....we need to compete for that

By the ancient guidelines of "calling shotgun", I have "dibs".

Naturally I couldn't possibly take care of more than a few women in a day. There may be several openings to fill, handling women that I can not personally attend to.

[Cleopatra]

Kourama

Terribly sorry! But you must understand... After reading what Canadians think about their own country...

I think that before we start we must think carefully. Kourama, I think you are wrong. People eventually look for someone Divine to believe in, otherwise they would deify their... spouses for example...

"Dear Hubby-Patron Saint of Bored women of the Universe"

But they don't!!! I think you should reconsider on the problem of Deity. And don't forget!

Ancient people didn't really believe in the existence of Gods but they needed them...

Face it! You need me.

[kourama]

Originally posted by Cleopatra
Kourama

Terribly sorry! But you must understand... After reading what Canadians think about their own country...


That's all right, I'M sorry (Canadian perogative: apologize at all costs)



*SNIP*

Ancient people didn't really believe in the existence of Gods but they needed them...

Face it! You need me.

Really? What was Socrates' apology all about then? :D

OK, I Give, you can be a goddess incarnate. Oh, just one thing - I'm gonna need to see a miracle, and the JREF prize must be donated directly to me^H^Hthe church.

Hmm, that's another good point, there are churches, mosques and temples. Maybe we should have our own name for our place of worship... Let's take a vote. I nominate "den".

[Cleopatra]

Originally posted by kourama



Really? What was Socrates' apology all about then? :D

in a singing voice

Don't provoke me... I can make such a mess on this issue that will make the threads about Palestine look like kindergarden :D

OK, I Give, you can be a goddess incarnate. Oh, just one thing - I'm gonna need to see a miracle, and the JREF prize must be donated directly to me^H^Hthe church.

Thank you! Although Mark Anthony has nominated me Goddess centuries before you see the Truth!
You must explain to me the miracle issue...What Miracle? Make Mr.Unique a follower of Sharon?

Since I found you in such a good mood, may I be the Goddess-Patron Saint of Modern Belly Dancers as well, although-sigh- there is already one...

[kourama]

Originally posted by Cleopatra


in a singing voice

You must explain to me the miracle issue...What Miracle? Make Mr.Unique a follower of Sharon?



I would accept as a valid miracle a coherent post from FRANKO or an intelligent/opinion-free/factual post from JediKnight.

COuld you make either of those two things happen?

[Cleopatra]

People who interact with Goddesses, eventually get reasonable...even you, if we exhange more posts, you will feel smarter as well...so consider it done!:p

But first, he has to join the Likud Party...

[DrChinese]

Check out www.subgenius.com

How about we start the "I don't know...yet." religion? It would encompass all the knowledge we have up to the minute and anything that is out of the realm of our knowledge would be deemed..."I don't know...yet."

We would not need a bible, scientific books would take its place. We would not need a church because we would be out looking for answers and we would not need a leader, because all of the knowledge would be common property and subject only to individual interpretation.

[Keneke]

As-a da pope-a, I am da mouthpiece of God, whose name shall not be mentioned...well-a, never mind, his name is C4ts. Ay! So, C4ts spoke-a to me last night, and he said, "Itsa great to see you, Pope-a!" So I say, "Itsa great to see you too, God!" So we sat down and had spaghetti.

God, he's such a nice-a guy!

[Keneke]

Ay, looka my new icon! Ima da pope-a!

[kourama]

Originally posted by Keneke
Ay, looka my new icon! Ima da pope-a!

Not that I'm a stickler or anything, but your accent sounds Italian, and the current pope is Polish. :D

How about we start the "I don't know...yet." religion?

That reminds me of Apatheism - "I don't know, I don't care and the question has ceased being meaningful."

The reason you'd need a central body is becaue you have an enormous number of people who are too lazy or too stupid to think for themselves. They WANT and NEED someone to think for them. The whole point here is to create the theological version of a benevolent dictatorship. (which, coincidentally enough, most major religions think they are).

[c4ts]

It's-a me-a, God. Find-e de Pope-a in-a-de pizz-a.

[kourama]

Originally posted by c4ts
It's-a me-a, God. Find-e de Pope-a in-a-de pizz-a.

Itsa me! Mario *Ta-Ting!*

After watching my younger sibling spend hours with a gaping jaw, a reverent/bovine expression on his face, w/o blinking in front of a non-existant 3D gaming character jumping on mushrooms, I am beginning to wonder if maybe Mario is a God.

[c4ts]

And to think that I wasted my childhood worhipping that false idol, Sonic the Hedgehog!

Ok where's the floosy tarts and more important can I be top tart?:D

[kourama]

Originally posted by Biker Babe
Ok where's the floosy tarts and more important can I be top tart?:D

If I were to design a religion there would be no self-hatred. All emotions are allowed, including lust, hatred and apathy. So terms like floosy and tart, while they might exist, would not have a lot of meaning because having a lot of lust wouldn't be a "sin".

But, the title of top tart could be bestowed with certain reverential meaning, and it'd be all yours. :D.

[Keneke]

Originally posted by kourama
Not that I'm a stickler or anything, but your accent sounds Italian, and the current pope is Polish. :D

I know. I am just parodying "The Pope's Visit" from that sketch comedy show The State, which aired on MTV back in the 90's. Good stuff.

http://www.statemedia.net/state.php (then find "The Pope's Visit" on show 302.)